So glad that they rework him, he's my first Warframe after the starter but it's kinda sad that he isn't as tanky as he should, now after the rework he can easily walk around stuff like elite archemedia like it's nothing without going grey health lol
They should do Nidus, aka the Undying next. I honestly would be okay if they just got rid of his clunk like they did with Garuda’s rework that came with her Prime.
That, and also that weird thing with his four where it isn’t affected by range mods. I’d also love it if DE rolled his four’s augment into his base kit so he has more build freedom.
What? I swear his 4 is affected by range? Of course I get told this as I’m headed to work so I can’t test it lmao
Also the 4 Aug being base would be nice I agree, it’d give me room for another augment or more strength for the vitality, but I don’t know if it’s necessarily that big a qol
And let's not forget that his 1 can only kill fodder enemies, yet his kit basically means you'll be spamming his 1 and 2 more than you'll be shooting so being a turret is still not ideal.
His 1 also scales on his mutation stacks, so at the higher end you can one shot base SP.
My only complaint about Nidus is he's too slow to ramp up. The entire maps dead before you can start scaling so you're forced into solo or begging for others to not kill your targets.
Yeah considering how good that 4 is the base range should be like 16 meters and go up. I don't know why de is afraid to give us good range when the game is basically run run run
The argument increasing his health should be build in, same for the larva popping. Would be nice if he got stacks for all enemies that died while in his 2 or affected by the maggots so that it's harder for his teammates to grief him.
I wouldn't mind if they rework link into something that allows him to move, but at the very least he needs an UI indicator of the target remaining health (kinda like Nyx 1)
I agree. My regen build is strong enough that if I'm not literally afk I simply cannot die. I'd appreciate a soft rework; maybe more damage on his 1 and more range on his 4, but otherwise? My baby boy is perfect as is.
Tbh I like how his 1 is, since if you use it on a larva full of enemies that have maggots on em, it can nuke it already with the charger’s mod set, since each one does percent health. I’ve had times in hell scrub where I’ll be struggling on a baubau and just larva next to it, causing it to go from like 95% hp to 2
i think they should've make his stacks to actually do something other than the undying passive (which somehow can be suppressed by nullifiers) and 1/maggots damage
Maybe something like more stacks evolves abilities (viral proc on enemies bound by 2? More maggots+bigger hive cover for 4? Summon a juggernaut when fully stacked?) or give him scaling passive heal/tank stats base on number of stacks?
As a former Nidus main I unfortunately kind of agree.
His kit is one of the most synergistic in the entire game but that doesn't make it particularly powerful for certain missions. Anything not-stationary makes it hard to build stacks and without his 3 you're surprisingly squishy since his health is nowhere near Inaros level. He's perfectly fine as he is, but definitely feels a bit clunky at times.
I'm more than happy to keep him this way if it means other frames can get their reworks first tho. Equinox is absolutely dogshit these days. Don't remember the last time I used them. Or even saw one.
And maybe DE will finally do something about augments until then too. Idc if it's a new mod slot or a helminth thing. They've got to know the problem just gets worse every update. Can't run any augments on my Nidus without falling short in performance.
I was hesitant when they announced Valkyr's, and I was pleasantly surprised when they showed it off on stream. I don't care she's not straight immortal anymore, I think "nuh-uh" abilities like her old 4 and Rev's 2 are uninspiring. I think she's in a better spot now than she was before.
She has so much armor she is basically still immortal + you get the passive revive that is basically the best self revive in the game with very low cd and the bar is very easy to fill, and the hook is a lot more pleasant to use now, I was among the doubters of the rework but now I love it, especially with the exalted weapon being abke to use arcanes she is in an amazing spot now
She has a more engaging form of immortality that also makes it feel like you might still die, because you’re still taking damage. Her rework is so amazing.
DE already breaks it on almost every update so they probably want to change it, but it's also the core of his identity, so they know removing it or changing it too drastically wouldn't sit well with its current mains.
Revenant is the outlier here. Honestly I don't get what people's problem is with it, I'm fine with having a boring and overpowered frame for the overtly casual players.
I dont think Rev needs a rework to be good, I think he needs it to be fun.
I still think his thralls should be more a part of his kit. Maybe have Mesmer skin redirect all damage to thralls and givem.his thralls damage buffs. Have a better trade kff on remaining fully invincible, while sacrificing and converting thralls as you fight.
Give yourself a mind controlled army that chews itself up as it burns the enemies.
At the momwnt, Rev is basically just " I dont die. " with little else going on
you say that as if every single one of his abilities doesn’t already interact with thrall
revenant actually has one of the most synergistic kits in the whole game but everyone tunnel-visions his 2
what you described in your second paragraph is literally in his intended gameplay loop: thrall enemies stunned by mesmer skin, reave them to kill them and gain mesmer charges, then hit thrall pyres with your 4. you can then stay in your 4 since you can reave in it which gives you more charges. damage sustained while in your 4 can be converted into damage done with the 4 and you don’t need your 1 while in it as long as thrall convert more enemies
I have played Revenant like this before it's super fun but lacks a lot in terms of viability especially when compared to using a damage ability over anything that isn't mesmer skin.
Beta thralls need to be removed. Revenant has a cap on enthralled enemies already so only spawning Alpha thralls should be done.
Mesmer skin is fine to me it does seem really weird cause it looks like he's meant to be played as a shield tank but doesn't have the necessary mechanics to do so. It looks like now though that his shield stuff is a fall back is mesmer skin fails.
Reave I think is fine as well just needs to explain the purpose a bit more in game.
Dense needs some help with energy or damge. It dose nothing in terms of damage and doesn't (Please correct me if I'm wrong) proc statuses which seems like it should.
I have no idea which ability this fits in but the pillars spawned by thralls and them exploding when hit by Dense needs to be moved from the tips section to the abilities section cause why is his playstyle not up and front.
Rev (I miss when I had fun on Apex legends) needs some help to reinforce his intended playstyle as most people don't even recognize that it's there (mainly due to the loud group who only use him for mesmse skin). So reinforce the playstle he's meant to play as and bring more light to it by slightly buffing him.
Danse actually does A LOT of damage. However, it's heavily dependent on enemy level. The higher the enemy level, the more damage it'll deal as it scales off enemy damage output.
I do agree though, its energy cost is probably too high for something that quite frankly, has a mediocre performance at under 4-digit enemy levels.
Thats another problem most people dont even go past id argue 25 minutes in survival let alone long enough for enemies to reach that outside of the circuit. So lower energy cost would be amazing.
revenant actually has one of the most synergistic kits in the whole game but everyone tunnel-visions his 2
And like Limbo, is the synergies really worth the payoff though?
You use Mesmer Skin charges to save the 25 base energy cost of Enthrall. Sure, fair. And then you... kill your thralls... and destroy the energy pillars that give you more thralls... All for a spinny ability with quirky AoE.
Or you could just be immortal, Thrall Pact, and fry enemies with a meta weapon.
But only alpha thralls can create pillar-spawning alpha thralls, rapidly diminishing the sustainability with your thralls as your 3 and 4 nukes them and deletes their pillars. Meaning you have to actively play worse for his kit to function. Fact is that Revenant's kit would actually be better if Danse didn't interact with thralls, baffling enough.
His thralls have the potential to be super fun, they just need a few changes. Primarily, make you and teammates unable to damage them. What is the point in trying to get a thrall army, when they get instantly slaughtered?
Secondly, they should take damage when the duration is up, possibly scaling with the number of thralls. This is mostly for lower levels, because it feels like it encourages killing them early, instead of letting it spread.
Ehh, still kinda bland. Yeah his 1 can buff his primary, but functionally he just shoots and does more damage. Which every frame will be doing, and most guns and handle end game without any warframe buff so, nothing really changes.
Admittedly the three can be strong, but its such a clunky ability that a little Pablo love would be able to make it more fun to use, and less disorienting. Which comes right back to him not needing a rework, but it would be nice.
Its like meeting someone you think is really attractive but with 0 personality. Like you want to love them so badly but can't stand having any conversation with them
Revenant kit is just a mess besides Mesmer skin he has a a awkward 1 shot nuke that doesn’t work on anything you would want to one shot and a meh 4 and fifty billion survivability tools.
We already have a bunch of really hard guys to kill like rhino, Inaros, Oberon and they all have decently designed kits
Because any new content, especially endgame content needs to match the players level of power.
Shield gating relies on constant input to maintain, that's a big difference from set and forget rev. This will only make nullifiers more prominent which also nerfs frames that aren't revenant, and only slightly inconveniences rev. It's high reward for low effort.
And nullifiers are a problem because it makes squishy and caster frames like Banshee or Mag or Loki and Equinox harder to play.
For example. A while ago a guy put a bounty up. A man had a revenant and deployed an archgun for overguard. The bounty was to defeat him. There was no way to defeat him. That's a problem: Mesmer Guard is an absolute defence.
(Btw my suggestion was to fight in the simulacrum, kill a bunch of nullifiers with nekros and bring them back as shadows to have a chance at actually beating him. It was a bad faith bounty because he didn't want to let us do that despite him being allowed to bring an archgun.)
Not really, no. Revenant's 2 has been the way it is for a long time, and they've introduced new game modes, new bosses just fine.
Shield gating... constant input? I think you're doing it wrong, mate.
If Nullifiers are a problem for you, I don't know what to say. They go down quick enough that they should not be a problem even for newbies. Unless you're doing level cap stuff with unoptimized loadout(like in the Circuit), Nullifiers shouldn't be an issue--honestly I often forget they're still a thing.
What you're talking about is a very specific PvP simulacrum scenario that most players will never experience.
Shield gating requires you to roll if you use rolling guard and be aware of your shield state. you need to consider that moment of vulnerability where your shield isn't regenerating and your health isn't protected. You have to move into cover or cast an ability the moment your shield breaks; you can't just press 2 and stand idly there like Rev. It is high reward for high effort, Rev is high reward for zero effort.
And you're missing the point with nullifiers it's not about how hard they are to kill it's about about the consequence of getting touched by their bubble. If a nullifier touches rev he just needs to recast mesmer skin. But for frames like Banshee, Mag, or Loki that rely on abilities for crowd control and survival, a Nullifier acts as an absolute area of denial. They lose their damage and lose their survivability.
Revenant contributes to an Arms race of power creep vs new content that DE has to run where they've added dispels and nullifiers and magnetic damage to almost every super boss as a way to dispel rev's immortality. The Archons, Fragmented One, the Apex and Thrax all rely on ability negation, dispel, or magnetic procs. Because our powers are too strong DE is forced to turn our powers off to create difficulty. It's not fun at all and it's the non-immortal frames that are the ones paying the price.
My story was pvp, true, but it was an example. I was portraying that Mesmer skin is absolute. A perfect defence and it's only counter is taking away his abilities and energy. This has put the game in a position where the frames we were talking about need a rework.
I still play cause she can be really fun and lives for a while with decoy and lokis augment for solo and condemn for squad play it’s solid, they probably just play solos
The real problem with Equinox is that you have a whole other stance that you don't want to switch to because it's not as good as the one you built for/you will lose all charge in your channeled 4 unless you spend a mod slot to prevent it from happening. She's my second most used warframe and I've always hated that aspect of her kit.
Well I like to use her night form just because of shield regen per kill, with that I can shield gate and put enemies to sleep, on day form for tough enemies and clean the area put the terrify skill from nekros on her, you can pretty much armor strip the whole tile set making easy to kill everyone with her 4 day form skill
This: stay in night for shield gain, and sleep, during the buildup. Switch to day for nuking time. The fact that Equinox is THE "change between aspects" frame with TWO channeled abilities and they don't keep their respective buildups while changing between forms sucks A LOT.
You dont really help the case when OP talks about people saying "just subsume roar/nourish" and then you mention something is good if you subsume roar lol
9 times out of 10 whenever someone brings up Equinox needing a rework (EDIT: to be clear, she -does- need a rework), being bad, etc etc. you can generally assume that they haven't actually touched her in years. It's painfully obvious at this point and is just karma farming.
The... 0.62% of players (being generous and combining both base & prime playrates here) who actually fucking use her know clear and well what her strength (Maim) problems (everything else) are. None of which would be solved by the dumb suggestions most people keep parroting, like the bewildering idea of letting her forma each form separately or -just- making Energy Transfer default and calling it a day. I'm sure it'll do wonders for her /s.
Been seeing Equinox come up more often lately. Can only hope the eventual rework doesn't nerf Maim.
You and me both. If maim gets nerfed by the rework, it'll likely be by adding LoS and that would kill equinox as we know her.
I enjoy her current iteration, but every skill requires something different to be built, and full range helps but doesn't fix her 2. All of her problems stem from how her abilities scale, and also all the guardrails to hold her in place. Her 3 needs a complete rework... And I could go on and on.
Roar, nourish or any specific weapons are not mandatory on any of these frames whatsoever. You don’t understand the frames and make bad builds, don’t assume everyone else does the same
Revenant is not even close to the priority list for reworks
lets go through some frames that actually NEED one. (Besides Equinox)
Chroma
- His 1 and 4 are both fucking worthless, his 1 exists to swap his elements (which does not matter because you are better off building for one specific element than trying to do a hybrid build) and his 4 exists for Profit taker and no other reason.
- E-Ward is his 2nd best ability and while not bad, it's also nothing insane by modern standards. Chroma's endgame performance is carried by Vex Armor and its fantastic Augment.
Nidus
- His 1's damage is absolutely laughable in steel path and it's supposed to be his main damage tool.
- his 2 augment should generate stacks.
- his stack generation is a nightmare outside of solo content, and he needs to just scale better with stack count.
- (Edit) Why the hell is Nidus's 1 augment as restrictive as it is? I need to hit 4 enemies with 1 stomp (not hard in solo, but in group content? yeah can be ass if your allies are good), to get a base 120% crit chance on my PRIMARY WEAPONS ONLY. Reminder that Frost gives you an unconditional 200% Crit Chance and Damage on ANY FROZEN ENEMY, Sevagoth gives a base 50% on enemies hit with his Reap (and this spreads btw).
Banshee
- Her 1 is god awful, even as an armor strip and is only kept on her in every build because it's a "shield gate tool" and...
- her 4 is somehow even worse. Both with and without its augment sound quake might be the worst AOE ability in this game, somehow Radial Jav is a better nuke than SQ.
Excalibur
- Slash dash is terrible once you enter steel path
- Radial Javelin is terrible
- Radial Blind is his only survivability tool
Qorvex
- Tbh the kit DESIGN is fine, dude is just gimped because Radiation is shit as a damage type and status effect
Limbo
- Obnoxious to play with due to the rift mechanics
- His 1 is utterly useless under most practical circumstances because Cataclysm exists
- Rift torrent is useless without its augment
- (Edit) Stasis while still very good got completely SHAFTED by Overguard.
Ivara
- Quiver is carried by Invis arrow
- Navigator is a meme ability
- Prowl is a stealth tool that's got more restrictions on it than most other stealth tools like Ash's smoke or Loki's invisibility
- Artemis bow is her best ability and its carried by its augment
and for ALL of the above listed frames, their passives are dated as hell.
Edit: BTW this is coming from someone who has level cap builds for all of these frames and has taken them to level cap. But I wont judge a frame on how well it can do with helminth abilities, which almost everyone on this list has to crutch on.
You thought I was done, imma keep cookin people up. I just wrote the last ones because I was busy.
Trinity
- This one is actually a funny one because Trinity is in the Loki situation where, she's not bad at what she does. She in fact does what she's supposed to do fantastically... but the game state and environment has changed in such a drastic fashion that nobody WANTS or NEEDS her to do what she does.
- Well of Life is good survivability, too bad I can just put it on whoever I want (and dont really have much reason to do so to begin with)
- Energy Vampire is great, but there's about 90 million ways to make energy now
- You have a conditional DR ability (that requires a stat that goes against how you want to build EV) but most frames nowadays have DR in some way or can mod it
Ember
- The second half of the Fire and Ice duo is hilariously sad, and its made funnier because this year they dropped 2 frames that do her shtick better. (not to say Frost is doing much better, dude has 2 garbage abilities, and is carried hard by augments).
- Her 1 is garbage outside of its augment
- Her fireblast is an armor strip that has restrictions tied to its effectiveness and which actively punishes you for using it (by reducing immolation meter thus reducing your DR).
- Immolation is a 90% DR capped conditional survivability tool with a constant drain that CONTINUES TO RAMP UP. That gets reduced by your main armor strip tool drastically... Fun fact Gauss can get a casual 100% DR just by existing, Citrine gives EVERYONE 90% DR just by killing shit (playing the game).
- her 4 is a LOS based "nuke" with an angle tied to it as well (literally why?) that doesn't hit very hard at all...
- (Edit) About fireblast I really gotta shit on this ability because what the fuck do you mean your armor strip, not only is it tied to a different ability that drains your energy at an absurd rate (that constantly increases mind you). But casting it will reduce your DR (even if only temporarily) just for 100% armor strip... NEKROS IS OLDER THAN THIS REWORK BY YEARS AND TERRIFY IS AN UNCONDITIONAL AOE ARMOR STRIP. Styanax can just fucken bitch slap anyone and bam, armor gone. Pillage is a massive AOE armor strip and shield strip, and it gives you shields. Avalanche, T-Sunder, Polarize, Psychic Bolts, Reckoning (pre and post rework), Bastille.
How tf did Ember get a worse armor strip ability (her 2nd best ability btw), and its somehow on the day of its inception already an inferior armor strip to most of the ones that already existed.
Nekros
- Ok this ones kinda false addition here but Nekros is fine. Boring as hell to play properly but he is in fact fine. Terrify is great, Desecrate is good, Shield of Shadows is good. I only have 2 issues
- Soul Punch while I recognize its uses (turning enemies that dont naturally "die" into shadows), I think this could be so much more.
- Shadows, I think he needs to lean better into the "necromancer" shtick. The summons really don't do anything interesting and need their augment to feel useful- (outside of reviving eximus units)
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
Rhino
- Like Nekros, Rhino is actually NOT BAD. Roar is obv amazing. Ironskin is great. Rhino stomp is good. There's just one small issue-
- You're telling me they reworked ironskin and didn't change this dudes dog shit passive?
- Also Rhino charge is just bad
His 1 is utterly useless under most practical circumstances because Cataclysm exists
Not exactly. Paired with Rift surge, you can cycle enemies close to the border and Radial Banish quicker, so that you don't have to hold your fire if you cleared the center of the bubble and wait for the RS enemies close to the border to finally pop out, to cycle.
But I'd say Banish is the safer option against eximus units.
Honestly, I believe that Revenant just needs a few tweaks to make his non-mesmer skin abilities stronger and to make mesmer skin less brain-dead. He does not need a full blown rework with new abilities. His kit is already fairly coherent, it's just a bit slow. The main change I would make is to make Enthrall spread faster, by making the ability cast itself aoe and for it to be able to partially affect eximus (for the purpose of reave setups). I would probably give Mesmer Skin a cooldown (about 10-20 seconds) once it expires, but in addition to reave, now his 4's pickups are his passive, apply to all enthralled enemies and restore a single mesmer skin charge. I would also make his 4 scale better, by making it trigger the thrall pillar explosions on hit. This would make his abilities a lot stronger while making mesmer skin require more effort. Though do take everything with a grain of salt, I was in a rush while writing this.
honestly full agree i would just love incentive to actually play in to her theme, because its such a cool theme;
weve gotten offensive supports since her, even moving previous supports in to more active offense roles to come in line w the state of the game
and separately each form has so much potential; like individually theyre incredibly cohesive and consistent (even if rest+pacify and rage+provoke Can be redundant) but imo theres no real integration outside of a brief buff on the form change itself.
like thematically i think duality (the augment) should be the goal, where some part of the other side still comes through; bc while different, theyre both her and they arent competing
I hate to say, but if you want them to actually balance frames that are lacking…they need to remove roar and nourish from helminth. This will cause some frames to have a painful few weeks/months, but it should cause them to give small or large reworks to frames that need love.
Painful is an understatement, and months is also an understatement. Losing those subsumes wouldn't make DE work any faster on reworks than they can, but it would definitely make some frames near unplayable.
You're right that those abilities shouldn't be such a crutch for everyone, though. The helminth has proven to be a very fun bandaid, but man, the wound underneath is getting pretty rotten.
I don't think this is the answer, warframe is about player choice and people may have invested heavily into those options it goes against DEs philosophy of buffs over nerfs and not removing content.
I'm saying that as a gauss main btw. revenant's reave's mechanic is just so much better and faster than mach rush, which literally has a stats that kill all of your speed and momentum(the 12m dash) for what ever reason.
I love equinox but the 2/3 are mid, they also don’t really do anything without maim so I get it
Like give day form a blind that would be cool and buffs up the ass
Tbh all equinox needs is tweaks and Energy transfer to just be part of the base kit. Like she has, effectively, 6 abilities (and an ability to swap between them). But you’re discouraged from switching between the two forms to properly utilize them without this mod. She’s perfectly if you need a nuke or want to farm sleeping enemies but that’s pretty much it.
Some tweaks:
- energy transfer is now base warframe functionality pls I beg
- mend affects defense objectives at a reduced rate because “500 overshields” is literally nothing XD
- mend uses a timer of constant regen instead of just being a one time burst heal so that it’s useful for far more allies than just health tanks that can heal themselves anyways
- pacify and provoke are now timed debuff/buff abilities because their channeled drains are kinda convoluted and hard to really see. Also pacify drains you REALLY fast against some enemies. (If they really have to be channeled drains then at least just make it flat energy/s and not conditional on what is happening around you because too much happens around people for them to adequately control the situation lol).
- provoke is now affinity range based because building for negative strength thresholds is not really a thing anymore (I think), an trying to get people to stand within 18m of you is functionally impossible.
- metamorphosis should not wipe out the opposite form abilities. Just like, let them stack if people want to be silly with it. There are warframes that can render their team functionally invincible, letting pacify and provoke be active at the same time won’t break the game lol.
If I see "subsume" I immediately don't listen to anyone's build, if you need nourish or roar it's not a good build it's a shit build with roar or nourish.
But hear me out : gauss with energized munitions on his 3 and put a shit load of duration so you get a big boost on his 4 and you enjoy the acceltra for more than 2 sec or choose any gun you want. Maussolon is also quite funny
Equinox and Revenant are still amazing frames, Loki not so much. The other 2 just haven't been changed in a while, but that's because they're still top tier frames.
Equinox was my fave frame for a loooooong time. But im not in denial and can admit that she's super mediocre atm. Similar to frames like loki or banshee, she's one of those "can only really be used if playing a specific playstyle in solo mode". Anything else and she's obsolete, abilities are irrelevant, and squishy af.
In Day form she has a 50 meter nuke that can be fueled by either her or her team, she can also apply and spread damage vulnerability, and can buff ability strength by a decent chunk.
She is nowhere near Loki or Banshee at the bottom, neither of them have massive level scaling nukes or highly desirable buffs. I'd also argue she performs better in groups than she does in solo, since she can buff her allies' ability strength, and her allies can fuel her Maim.
The only thing Equinox may struggle with is survivability, but no more than any other non-tank frame, granted unlike non-tank frames, her Night form does offer decent survivability. You enable Maim, run around on her, accumulate 10 enemies worth of Maim charge, then unleash your Maim charge when a lot of enemies are on your map within 50 meters but beyond your line of sight.
"Loki or Banshee at the bottom" maybe in group play, but there's nothing wrong with loki in solo.
As for equinox:
With the slash changes a long while back, where now they're weaker but can stack infinitely, a "single strong slash" in itself is pretty mid. And then you need to have it fed by anything that ISN'T her 4, get it to a high number, find a group of enemies that your squadmates didn't already kill, and THEN release 4. Also damage lowers based on distance, so you're gonna need a lot more enemies' hp stored up if you wanna try to nuke anything that isn't relatively close. ALSO also, since the stored damage is slash damage but NOT a slash STATUS EFFECT, unlike the base hit from the aura, it does NOT ignore armor. Gonna need a LOT of saved up damage to kill enemies with armor.
Ability str buff is nice, but it's a pitiful amount without her augment, and requires casting to be within range. At that point, might as well just subsume nokko's shroom which gives more power str, and also provides energy even through toggles.
Nightform sucks outside of solo play. Crowd control is irrelevant when everything dies, so her 2 and 3 are worthless, and her 3 also requires a stupid amount of energy consumption over time to get it to the stronger levels and have any decent range. Night's 4 is the only thing worth even attempting to build into, in which case why bother making a whole build around 1 semi-ok support ability when there's other frames that support better and with more usability?
Revenant is fine, imo. Maybe a bit boring, but he still performs well.
But GOOD GOD do I NEVER want to farm Equinox, I've never gotten them purely because I don't wanna farm for two warframes at once. And the fact it takes the longest to build is downright ridiculous. If they're gonna overhaul ANYTHING, I want that crafting process completely revised.
Nah, he need one, the 2 needs to be debuffed a bit, especially with DE wanting player to actively gain their invul, and this may just be me, but the 4 is mid, and the 1 could use some qol, good ability, give me qol like being able to get all 7 thralls in a cast, or uncap my thralls(is a straight buff, but it would be welcome af)
They shouldn't rework Rev in a way that nerfs mesmer but makes his other abilities useful (like they did to Wukong when they took his defy), because there are a lot of disabled gamers who are only able to enjoy this game thanks to it. He's like an accessibility setting and changing him could literally revoke certain peoples' access to the game. He's not hurting anyone, he's not intrusive, he's not ruining your gameplay by blowing up the entire map, so just let him be. He makes for a good weapons platform because he is naturally disposed towards power-strength modding, so he simply edges out Loki in terms of the power of the weapon buffing, and then also accessibility since the immortality doesn't require targetting.
Equinox is doing fine and doesn't care about Roar or Nourish. You subsume Terrify in order to strip, and then nuke, enemies in a large radius without LoS checks. Yes, you need to build up the nuke with weapon kills or ally kills inbetween, but then the release of Maim simply edges out many other nukes because it ignores LoS. For instance:
Dante nukes require LoS. Sevagoth nukes require LoS. Volt discharge does bypass LoS and works well enough for ESO but doesn't scale into steel path. Mirage's Legerdemain does bypass LoS and works well enough for ESO but doesn't scale into steel path and her other killing methods like her 4 and her buff builds don't bypass LoS. Saryn Spore builds do bypass LoS but requires extremely high enemy density and a lot of maintenance. Uriel bypasses LoS but requires depleting his meter. Nezha can bypass LoS but can only target non-overguarded enemies with his spears. Gyre can nuke bypassing LoS but she needs to snapshot fissure double ability strength and range for it to cover a large enough area to even really be considered "nuking". The only nuke which is consistently bypassing LoS and has no real buildup time or requirements, hence breaking all the rules, is the Cyte-09+Sobek setup. However, that's hardly even ability nuking in the first place, and this strategy is literally edging EVERY FRAME out for KPM, so it's not really an Equinox criticism. So, Equinox has their niche, especially with their power strength buffs for the squad.
Loki was just a frame made for a different era of warframe that we've moved away from.
Imo, Nezah is amazing. However I do feel like he could use a bit of a buff for more content closer to endgame (he's stupid fragile lmao, and not enough of a cannon to afford it, it feels like (maybe I should see about build videos for him))
I do think Equinox could use a rework, but until then Slash Nuke Equinox seems to work decently well. I found that terror works well as a subsume for strip before nuke, but you could probably get through most content with standard kit nuke.
Can't think of a single rework I hated. The only critique I have is removing WoF on ember. They could've just reworked the ability, not outright replace it, especially how good fire is now.
Loki really doesn’t need a rework, he’s simply just a stealthy frame with a gun who distracts enemies and moves fast…..I really don’t know what else you’d need a Loki to do?
As a Loki main I think Loki needs a rework to synergize with all his skills, even his passive sucks. His 4 specifically is very outdated and it's the easy subsumable slot. Loki can be unkillable with just stacking duration and 3 and invisible can help with damage but his entire kit just doesn't synergize at all. While his 1st ability got the damage treatment with the new augment, it's still kinda meh when you think about the entirety of all his skills. Nyx is more of a goddess of mischief than Loki.
This comment section needs to understand that needing a rework doesnt exclusively mean "this warframe is bad" it can also mean they dont match the game anymore one way or another
I just find equinox awkward to play, just never really vibed with how she feels to play, while Loki I just don't know how they could rework him all his abilities as they are when most frames can clear a room in 1-2 button presses. And rev I just find him boring the way most play, I like his spinin94 just wish it scaled better.
Equinox is best frame, but I would love a rework to make them more stronk regardless because I am unskilled af. As well as the fact we've got all the Sol&Lua stuff it's a good time to rework the sun and moon duality frame. Equinox deserves some luv
Equinox: Just choose day form and stick with it. At least it can nuke without LOS.
Loki: Chill game play where you won't get shot at constantly. Although Nokko update seems to "break" that, now enemies know exactly where you are and shoot there, so invisibility means nothing now I guess. It also make me play Loki a bit less because his only niche is be stripped away from him.
Revenant: I use him to deal with DE bullshit contents like EDA, ETA... I absolutely hate those to the core but I need the shards so fuck me I guess.
I strongly believe all suggestions and complaints sent to DE is treated as Sisters of Parvos said ingame: "directly to the bin". DE will change whatever the hell they want and one in a while in a blue moon one of the changes matches some player's suggestions, and we thought "oh my god they finally listen to us".
Those are 3 very specific examples: Rev is so fucking braindead overpowered that yeah that might need some work to see how to make him more interesting as a whole instead of just being OP. Mileage may vary how important that is.
Damage Decoy has been something i have been playing on and off with and it does slap kinda hard. Loki is hard ot execute on and basically none of it is unique to him. I think there are niches that make him super interesting but i also think that his place is so specific that i would not fault anyone who says "yeah please... just do something else."
Equinox needs a rework. Just period. Hard to farm, hard to play, but not because skill but because the frame fights you on every corner... I have a strong feeling like Ivara. It's not that there is nothing there, because Navigator is objectively OP, but you need to work against basically everything you wanna do in Warframe to really make it work and it is kinda so specific... Loki is easier to use.
Revenant's actually really well designed but suffering from success with Mesmer Skin and honestly I think they need to bite the bullet and nerf it somehow.
Loki is also surprisingly good on anything with objectives that aren't killing and absolutely fulfills the fantasy of being a tricksy bitch and doing some Goofery, I'd say Switch Teleport is the weakest link in his kit but I struggle to think of anything to replace it with and everything he has could be better. I'd say something more on top of what each of his abilities already do would be fine, one thought I had was having Switch Teleport make you ignore armor or do a radial defense strip, but if you hand him a bomb or something I feel like that would weaken the clear identity he already has as the all in utility and control stealth frame where every single other stealth frame is to some degree big on damage.
Equinox I think would be fixed if Energy Transfer was base kit and her buff that I'm blanking on the name for (and refuse to look up because it's 3am for me) was duration based instead of another channel so you would be incentivized to swap between both forms to keep it up, also getting the benefits of her 1's buffs in the process and giving chances to use both versions of her 2.
Loki doesn't need a rework his kit works for what he does and he has had his time in the sun. He is still very powerful he just doesn't nuke but we are in a weapons meta so abilities don't need to nuke. Spectral serration, crepuscular and damage decoy make him perfectly powerful enough while still being the easiest high duration inviz frame and being able to take silence for if you really need easy mode.
My opinion. If a Warframe requires a helminth ability, it has to be reworked.
I'm probably in the minority but I despise the helminth because it's just a crutch for many frames.
Frames should have a kit of skills that all compliment each other. I understand there are a bunch of old frames that really need some love.
But it's also tiring to see every time when there is a new frame, there is always at least one person that tries to cram nourish or roar to a Warframe, even at the cost of a Great kit.
I hope if they rework rev Mesmer Skin remains the way it is bcuz it's the perfect wf to use when Ure on mobile playing with touchscreen bcuz manouvering properly and all that is quite limited and u wouldn't be able to dodge shots and survive well in long runs so rev works as my proper panic room on mobile
As a general rule i try and make every 'frame in my stable viable, especially since Circuit became a thing. But those 3 offer nothing besides subsumed ability and a pair of hands to hold a (hopefully) juiced-up gun.
Listen, I'm not asking Excalibur to be fully reworked as he already was a few times. I'm just asking them to give him a new ability instead of his current 3. Just please let him have some sort of damage reduction on his 3 so I can actually tank with him with adaptation
Next time someone tells you some old frame doesn’t need rebalancing, hit them with the quote from our Archmagos Pablo, first of his name: "What balance?"
I took Equinox on an archon hunt because shes one of my favorite but I normally only use her for low level wave wipes. Cut to me sitting in night form killing things with my friends and charging up 4 before using energy transfer to wipe out everything in the next 3 zipcodes.
Hot take but everyone that wants an equinox rework clearly uses overframe or YouTube to tell them what to use on a built so they all remove the whole part of her built thats about survivability just so they can ad terrify to it and then they complain about her feeling weak
I don't get that argument at all. Slap the Torid and a shield gate build on any frame and they can be useable. Doesn't mean they don't need a rework because every frame can be fine using those two.
Limbo needs a rework WAY more than Equinox, I can at least make her work in Steel Path with pretty much any build I want.
Limbo on the other hand has been dogshit for Steel Path ever since the Eximus rework, and Jade Light being added just made it even worse for him.
He's barely viable in low level SO unless you're running a super strong subsume like Breach Surge and abusing the fact that his subsumes can still hit enemies even if you're in the rift.
Loki needs some love though. He's my most played frame, but only cause I did copious amounts of spy missions before Octavia was released. He's truly fallen off. Tried making a build around the decoy augment and it was terrible.
I mean, Revenant is good - he's just extremely boring and poses a conceptual issue for the game's balancing.
I'd honestly throw Limbo in there instead because a frame that so many people consider a troll pick that you can get yelled at just for joining a lobby with him probably deserves a rework, irrespective of whether or not you get good results if you use him well.
I agree with Equinox and Loki needing a rework. But Revenant if he were to get reworked would probably be to make him weaker. Mf is literally immortal and can 1 shot anything outside of like archons without a weapon or Roar.
If grendel wasn't such a chore to have, yeah, I would probably put nourish on a lot of frame, like my excal or my Octavia, but damn, as a solo/duo player it's a chore
Only one I could argue is Equinox is still ok. Revenant if anything needs a nerf like Jesus they didn’t need to make him go from trash to the most busted thing in the game. Loki though needs something either a rework or going back to fix the rest of the game so CC matters again.
People deadass be gaslighting on every frame who health tanks. And the dev team has the audacity to nerf the only arcane that makes health tanking viable in endgame. Idk if Arcane Expertise is a good alternate with Parasitic Armor.
Styanax was always the true Oberon rework, change my mind.
Revenant doesn't need a rework and I will die on this hill. He's the perfect solo frame. The only thing I will accept changing is his ult and that's only cause I don't build it right to do enough damage. Everything else is flawless.
Everything is good you just HAVE TO PUT nourish or roar on it trust me bro
I understand that theyre good abilitys but at what point can we go back to the before helminth where you just ran the kits and actually played them to the fullest
"Nah Bro, just use 2 of your 8 slots for augments, put a subsume on, then intsert 5 tau shards, the warframe IS good". Jokes aside, more frames need the valkyr and nova treatment, not changing how they play but just making them better and simpler, you no longer need to run war cry on valkyr and her passive actually does something, and you no longer need 3 separate builds for nova
God himself could trip down on the stairway to heaven, land on his face in front of me, and say that Loki is a good warframe and I'd call him a fucking alcoholic
Meanwhile, my reaction when they finally reworked my boy.
https://preview.redd.it/txrvxi4y49ag1.jpeg?width=502&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bfb19920363d20ec8f0281eaa11fd4340143c4f
So glad that they rework him, he's my first Warframe after the starter but it's kinda sad that he isn't as tanky as he should, now after the rework he can easily walk around stuff like elite archemedia like it's nothing without going grey health lol
And after Arcane Persistence, he is as close to straight up immortal as you can get.
They should do Nidus, aka the Undying next. I honestly would be okay if they just got rid of his clunk like they did with Garuda’s rework that came with her Prime.
What clunk are you referring to? The 1 cooldown? He’s a pretty insane health tank already, literally can’t die if you use him right
That, and also that weird thing with his four where it isn’t affected by range mods. I’d also love it if DE rolled his four’s augment into his base kit so he has more build freedom.
What? I swear his 4 is affected by range? Of course I get told this as I’m headed to work so I can’t test it lmao
Also the 4 Aug being base would be nice I agree, it’d give me room for another augment or more strength for the vitality, but I don’t know if it’s necessarily that big a qol
It’s got and 8 meters radius, nothing more, nothing less. It really sucks considering how much his kit wants you to literally always be on it.
And let's not forget that his 1 can only kill fodder enemies, yet his kit basically means you'll be spamming his 1 and 2 more than you'll be shooting so being a turret is still not ideal.
His 1 also scales on his mutation stacks, so at the higher end you can one shot base SP.
My only complaint about Nidus is he's too slow to ramp up. The entire maps dead before you can start scaling so you're forced into solo or begging for others to not kill your targets.
Yeah considering how good that 4 is the base range should be like 16 meters and go up. I don't know why de is afraid to give us good range when the game is basically run run run
The argument increasing his health should be build in, same for the larva popping. Would be nice if he got stacks for all enemies that died while in his 2 or affected by the maggots so that it's harder for his teammates to grief him.
I wouldn't mind if they rework link into something that allows him to move, but at the very least he needs an UI indicator of the target remaining health (kinda like Nyx 1)
I agree. My regen build is strong enough that if I'm not literally afk I simply cannot die. I'd appreciate a soft rework; maybe more damage on his 1 and more range on his 4, but otherwise? My baby boy is perfect as is.
Tbh I like how his 1 is, since if you use it on a larva full of enemies that have maggots on em, it can nuke it already with the charger’s mod set, since each one does percent health. I’ve had times in hell scrub where I’ll be struggling on a baubau and just larva next to it, causing it to go from like 95% hp to 2
i think they should've make his stacks to actually do something other than the undying passive (which somehow can be suppressed by nullifiers) and 1/maggots damage Maybe something like more stacks evolves abilities (viral proc on enemies bound by 2? More maggots+bigger hive cover for 4? Summon a juggernaut when fully stacked?) or give him scaling passive heal/tank stats base on number of stacks?
As a former Nidus main I unfortunately kind of agree.
His kit is one of the most synergistic in the entire game but that doesn't make it particularly powerful for certain missions. Anything not-stationary makes it hard to build stacks and without his 3 you're surprisingly squishy since his health is nowhere near Inaros level. He's perfectly fine as he is, but definitely feels a bit clunky at times.
I'm more than happy to keep him this way if it means other frames can get their reworks first tho. Equinox is absolutely dogshit these days. Don't remember the last time I used them. Or even saw one.
And maybe DE will finally do something about augments until then too. Idc if it's a new mod slot or a helminth thing. They've got to know the problem just gets worse every update. Can't run any augments on my Nidus without falling short in performance.
I was hesitant when they announced Valkyr's, and I was pleasantly surprised when they showed it off on stream. I don't care she's not straight immortal anymore, I think "nuh-uh" abilities like her old 4 and Rev's 2 are uninspiring. I think she's in a better spot now than she was before.
She has so much armor she is basically still immortal + you get the passive revive that is basically the best self revive in the game with very low cd and the bar is very easy to fill, and the hook is a lot more pleasant to use now, I was among the doubters of the rework but now I love it, especially with the exalted weapon being abke to use arcanes she is in an amazing spot now
She has a more engaging form of immortality that also makes it feel like you might still die, because you’re still taking damage. Her rework is so amazing.
I just hope it's good when they get around to Ivara.
How do you build him? Ngl I don’t really understand his role and how his abilities synergize with each other. Teach me your ways.
my boy limbo so forgotten that he's not even on the list lmao
In limbo just like his name Edit. Fixed words
The problem with reworking Limbo is the Rift.
DE already breaks it on almost every update so they probably want to change it, but it's also the core of his identity, so they know removing it or changing it too drastically wouldn't sit well with its current mains.
Limbo mfs low key chilling as far as I can tell
Limbo got ostracized from coop so they just chill in solo
If it helps you, Reb confirmed in one of the last devshorts that Limbo, Banshee and Loki are the 3 frames in their rework list right now.
Revenant is the outlier here. Honestly I don't get what people's problem is with it, I'm fine with having a boring and overpowered frame for the overtly casual players.
Equinox and Loki do need the reworks though.
I dont think Rev needs a rework to be good, I think he needs it to be fun.
I still think his thralls should be more a part of his kit. Maybe have Mesmer skin redirect all damage to thralls and givem.his thralls damage buffs. Have a better trade kff on remaining fully invincible, while sacrificing and converting thralls as you fight.
Give yourself a mind controlled army that chews itself up as it burns the enemies.
At the momwnt, Rev is basically just " I dont die. " with little else going on
you say that as if every single one of his abilities doesn’t already interact with thrall
revenant actually has one of the most synergistic kits in the whole game but everyone tunnel-visions his 2
what you described in your second paragraph is literally in his intended gameplay loop: thrall enemies stunned by mesmer skin, reave them to kill them and gain mesmer charges, then hit thrall pyres with your 4. you can then stay in your 4 since you can reave in it which gives you more charges. damage sustained while in your 4 can be converted into damage done with the 4 and you don’t need your 1 while in it as long as thrall convert more enemies
Wow, someone who actually plays Revenant as intended. Quite rare.
I have played Revenant like this before it's super fun but lacks a lot in terms of viability especially when compared to using a damage ability over anything that isn't mesmer skin.
Beta thralls need to be removed. Revenant has a cap on enthralled enemies already so only spawning Alpha thralls should be done.
Mesmer skin is fine to me it does seem really weird cause it looks like he's meant to be played as a shield tank but doesn't have the necessary mechanics to do so. It looks like now though that his shield stuff is a fall back is mesmer skin fails.
Reave I think is fine as well just needs to explain the purpose a bit more in game.
Dense needs some help with energy or damge. It dose nothing in terms of damage and doesn't (Please correct me if I'm wrong) proc statuses which seems like it should.
I have no idea which ability this fits in but the pillars spawned by thralls and them exploding when hit by Dense needs to be moved from the tips section to the abilities section cause why is his playstyle not up and front.
Rev (I miss when I had fun on Apex legends) needs some help to reinforce his intended playstyle as most people don't even recognize that it's there (mainly due to the loud group who only use him for mesmse skin). So reinforce the playstle he's meant to play as and bring more light to it by slightly buffing him.
Danse actually does A LOT of damage. However, it's heavily dependent on enemy level. The higher the enemy level, the more damage it'll deal as it scales off enemy damage output.
I do agree though, its energy cost is probably too high for something that quite frankly, has a mediocre performance at under 4-digit enemy levels.
Thats another problem most people dont even go past id argue 25 minutes in survival let alone long enough for enemies to reach that outside of the circuit. So lower energy cost would be amazing.
And like Limbo, is the synergies really worth the payoff though?
You use Mesmer Skin charges to save the 25 base energy cost of Enthrall. Sure, fair. And then you... kill your thralls... and destroy the energy pillars that give you more thralls... All for a spinny ability with quirky AoE.
Or you could just be immortal, Thrall Pact, and fry enemies with a meta weapon.
you thrall an eximus you dash through it and one shot it.. rev has true damage. reaving a thralled enemies can one shot it usually.
as long as 1 thrall is alive it will make more thrall
But only alpha thralls can create pillar-spawning alpha thralls, rapidly diminishing the sustainability with your thralls as your 3 and 4 nukes them and deletes their pillars. Meaning you have to actively play worse for his kit to function. Fact is that Revenant's kit would actually be better if Danse didn't interact with thralls, baffling enough.
Holy shit, some who actually know that Revenant has 3 other skills??? Is the world healing?
And how active is it? Or does it just do background things with zero interactivity
did you read my edit? i added a third paragraph
No, I posted before you made an edit
that’s why i mentioned it, don’t have to downvote me
His thralls have the potential to be super fun, they just need a few changes. Primarily, make you and teammates unable to damage them. What is the point in trying to get a thrall army, when they get instantly slaughtered?
Secondly, they should take damage when the duration is up, possibly scaling with the number of thralls. This is mostly for lower levels, because it feels like it encourages killing them early, instead of letting it spread.
If his two 100% redirect to his thrall . I have and idea subsume pool of life .thrall then pool of life that enemy
His thralls are kinda meant to die. They spawn pillars that do damage on death
His thrall augment is insane for primaries and gives energy, so I've got no issue there.
His third is literally percent health, meaning with enough strength set up you can essentially one/two shot almost anything in the game.
His 4 is not the best ability, but still a great low level nuke. I have road subsumed on it though, so I've no qualms there.
So while Rev is still somewhat boring compared to other frames, it's kind bad faith to say he's completely bland.
His 4th can instakill level cap. It's just boring as hell to do so.
Ehh, still kinda bland. Yeah his 1 can buff his primary, but functionally he just shoots and does more damage. Which every frame will be doing, and most guns and handle end game without any warframe buff so, nothing really changes.
Admittedly the three can be strong, but its such a clunky ability that a little Pablo love would be able to make it more fun to use, and less disorienting. Which comes right back to him not needing a rework, but it would be nice.
As someone who loves Revenant for his lore and aesthetic; he is boring to play; especially since they removed his combo with Nyx’s mind control
It’s not about him being weak, it’s about him being just boring
Fr I always hear Rev brought up in the way that he’s so op he isn’t super fun, he doesn’t need reworked for buffing purposes at ALL
Its like meeting someone you think is really attractive but with 0 personality. Like you want to love them so badly but can't stand having any conversation with them
Revenant kit is just a mess besides Mesmer skin he has a a awkward 1 shot nuke that doesn’t work on anything you would want to one shot and a meh 4 and fifty billion survivability tools.
We already have a bunch of really hard guys to kill like rhino, Inaros, Oberon and they all have decently designed kits
It's like different people had different play styles and it's good to have a frame for every playstyle
Revenant is basically an accessibility tool for disabled people.
I think revs immortality is problematic to the health of the game because it means the devs will have to build enemies around that immortality.
Why would they need to do that? As it is, he's virtually no different than any other immortal frames using shield gating to its fullest potential.
Because any new content, especially endgame content needs to match the players level of power.
Shield gating relies on constant input to maintain, that's a big difference from set and forget rev. This will only make nullifiers more prominent which also nerfs frames that aren't revenant, and only slightly inconveniences rev. It's high reward for low effort.
And nullifiers are a problem because it makes squishy and caster frames like Banshee or Mag or Loki and Equinox harder to play.
For example. A while ago a guy put a bounty up. A man had a revenant and deployed an archgun for overguard. The bounty was to defeat him. There was no way to defeat him. That's a problem: Mesmer Guard is an absolute defence.
(Btw my suggestion was to fight in the simulacrum, kill a bunch of nullifiers with nekros and bring them back as shadows to have a chance at actually beating him. It was a bad faith bounty because he didn't want to let us do that despite him being allowed to bring an archgun.)
Not really, no. Revenant's 2 has been the way it is for a long time, and they've introduced new game modes, new bosses just fine.
Shield gating... constant input? I think you're doing it wrong, mate.
If Nullifiers are a problem for you, I don't know what to say. They go down quick enough that they should not be a problem even for newbies. Unless you're doing level cap stuff with unoptimized loadout(like in the Circuit), Nullifiers shouldn't be an issue--honestly I often forget they're still a thing.
What you're talking about is a very specific PvP simulacrum scenario that most players will never experience.
Shield gating requires you to roll if you use rolling guard and be aware of your shield state. you need to consider that moment of vulnerability where your shield isn't regenerating and your health isn't protected. You have to move into cover or cast an ability the moment your shield breaks; you can't just press 2 and stand idly there like Rev. It is high reward for high effort, Rev is high reward for zero effort.
And you're missing the point with nullifiers it's not about how hard they are to kill it's about about the consequence of getting touched by their bubble. If a nullifier touches rev he just needs to recast mesmer skin. But for frames like Banshee, Mag, or Loki that rely on abilities for crowd control and survival, a Nullifier acts as an absolute area of denial. They lose their damage and lose their survivability.
Revenant contributes to an Arms race of power creep vs new content that DE has to run where they've added dispels and nullifiers and magnetic damage to almost every super boss as a way to dispel rev's immortality. The Archons, Fragmented One, the Apex and Thrax all rely on ability negation, dispel, or magnetic procs. Because our powers are too strong DE is forced to turn our powers off to create difficulty. It's not fun at all and it's the non-immortal frames that are the ones paying the price.
My story was pvp, true, but it was an example. I was portraying that Mesmer skin is absolute. A perfect defence and it's only counter is taking away his abilities and energy. This has put the game in a position where the frames we were talking about need a rework.
Where’s banshee in this discussion???
Can’t hear her complaining
what? i can't hear you, there's a banshee in our squad
She is already in heavy consideration for rework, even Tactical Potato offered suggestion to DE for this in his interview with them
IMO banshee just needs a numbers buff and Some kind of survivability I don’t think her kit is as much of mess as someone like limbo, Loki, chroma
their mains all left years ago
I still play cause she can be really fun and lives for a while with decoy and lokis augment for solo and condemn for squad play it’s solid, they probably just play solos
The real problem with Equinox is that you have a whole other stance that you don't want to switch to because it's not as good as the one you built for/you will lose all charge in your channeled 4 unless you spend a mod slot to prevent it from happening. She's my second most used warframe and I've always hated that aspect of her kit.
She just needs a similar system to vinquibus where you can mod two seperate versions at the same time . Maybe don't have them share polarity though.
Well I like to use her night form just because of shield regen per kill, with that I can shield gate and put enemies to sleep, on day form for tough enemies and clean the area put the terrify skill from nekros on her, you can pretty much armor strip the whole tile set making easy to kill everyone with her 4 day form skill
This: stay in night for shield gain, and sleep, during the buildup. Switch to day for nuking time. The fact that Equinox is THE "change between aspects" frame with TWO channeled abilities and they don't keep their respective buildups while changing between forms sucks A LOT.
Funnily enough, i wish the augment affected her 3. Or rather just have her 3 and 4 keep the charge when swapping forms.
Revenant getting his mesmer skin removed is gonna be Warframe 9/11
isnt mesmer skin amazing??????
Yepp, and his 4 does decent damage when build around with roar, or build to insta kill things with his 1+3
You dont really help the case when OP talks about people saying "just subsume roar/nourish" and then you mention something is good if you subsume roar lol
There aren't many frames that lack a Roar or Nourish build.
Wow, damage ability does better with roar 😱
The normal gripe about rev is that "all you do is press 2" when their is more to his kit
Yep and is as boring as it gets
Here is how you know a warframe's kit is not complete.
The first litmus test you can use is whether or not it has an ability that is entirely useless on steel path.
The other is whether or not you have to synergize your entire kit to make it work on the lowest levels of steel path missions.
I am using steelpath as the test because you can still use banshees four on a normal mission to kill.
The second you start steel path, her fourth ability is entirely useless.
Revenant literally doesn't need a subsume the only reason you would is because danse macabre is weak as hell but you're not using rev for dps anyway.
macabre absorbs enemy damage and turns it into output
Equinox needs a rework but mainly cuz she's kneecapped by range restrictions and guard rails.
Anyone that says she needs roar or nourish doesn't understand how she works, or what her problems are.
9 times out of 10 whenever someone brings up Equinox needing a rework (EDIT: to be clear, she -does- need a rework), being bad, etc etc. you can generally assume that they haven't actually touched her in years. It's painfully obvious at this point and is just karma farming.
The... 0.62% of players (being generous and combining both base & prime playrates here) who actually fucking use her know clear and well what her strength (Maim) problems (everything else) are. None of which would be solved by the dumb suggestions most people keep parroting, like the bewildering idea of letting her forma each form separately or -just- making Energy Transfer default and calling it a day. I'm sure it'll do wonders for her /s.
Been seeing Equinox come up more often lately. Can only hope the eventual rework doesn't nerf Maim.
You and me both. If maim gets nerfed by the rework, it'll likely be by adding LoS and that would kill equinox as we know her.
I enjoy her current iteration, but every skill requires something different to be built, and full range helps but doesn't fix her 2. All of her problems stem from how her abilities scale, and also all the guardrails to hold her in place. Her 3 needs a complete rework... And I could go on and on.
Roar, nourish or any specific weapons are not mandatory on any of these frames whatsoever. You don’t understand the frames and make bad builds, don’t assume everyone else does the same
I used to be into an equinox rework but now I just want a light touch. When you use her kit she can be insanely powerful.
https://preview.redd.it/7rb0lk361aag1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=02739fb4cd1998b2f18a5b9c92bd34b2171a5f0c
Who needs a rework when you have this absolute Chad
Revenant is not even close to the priority list for reworks
lets go through some frames that actually NEED one. (Besides Equinox)
Chroma
- His 1 and 4 are both fucking worthless, his 1 exists to swap his elements (which does not matter because you are better off building for one specific element than trying to do a hybrid build) and his 4 exists for Profit taker and no other reason.
- E-Ward is his 2nd best ability and while not bad, it's also nothing insane by modern standards. Chroma's endgame performance is carried by Vex Armor and its fantastic Augment.
Nidus
- His 1's damage is absolutely laughable in steel path and it's supposed to be his main damage tool.
- his 2 augment should generate stacks.
- his stack generation is a nightmare outside of solo content, and he needs to just scale better with stack count.
- (Edit) Why the hell is Nidus's 1 augment as restrictive as it is? I need to hit 4 enemies with 1 stomp (not hard in solo, but in group content? yeah can be ass if your allies are good), to get a base 120% crit chance on my PRIMARY WEAPONS ONLY. Reminder that Frost gives you an unconditional 200% Crit Chance and Damage on ANY FROZEN ENEMY, Sevagoth gives a base 50% on enemies hit with his Reap (and this spreads btw).
Banshee
- Her 1 is god awful, even as an armor strip and is only kept on her in every build because it's a "shield gate tool" and...
- her 4 is somehow even worse. Both with and without its augment sound quake might be the worst AOE ability in this game, somehow Radial Jav is a better nuke than SQ.
Excalibur
- Slash dash is terrible once you enter steel path
- Radial Javelin is terrible
- Radial Blind is his only survivability tool
Qorvex
- Tbh the kit DESIGN is fine, dude is just gimped because Radiation is shit as a damage type and status effect
Limbo
- Obnoxious to play with due to the rift mechanics
- His 1 is utterly useless under most practical circumstances because Cataclysm exists
- Rift torrent is useless without its augment
- (Edit) Stasis while still very good got completely SHAFTED by Overguard.
Ivara
- Quiver is carried by Invis arrow
- Navigator is a meme ability
- Prowl is a stealth tool that's got more restrictions on it than most other stealth tools like Ash's smoke or Loki's invisibility
- Artemis bow is her best ability and its carried by its augment
and for ALL of the above listed frames, their passives are dated as hell.
Edit: BTW this is coming from someone who has level cap builds for all of these frames and has taken them to level cap. But I wont judge a frame on how well it can do with helminth abilities, which almost everyone on this list has to crutch on.
You thought I was done, imma keep cookin people up. I just wrote the last ones because I was busy.
Trinity
- This one is actually a funny one because Trinity is in the Loki situation where, she's not bad at what she does. She in fact does what she's supposed to do fantastically... but the game state and environment has changed in such a drastic fashion that nobody WANTS or NEEDS her to do what she does.
- Well of Life is good survivability, too bad I can just put it on whoever I want (and dont really have much reason to do so to begin with)
- Energy Vampire is great, but there's about 90 million ways to make energy now
- You have a conditional DR ability (that requires a stat that goes against how you want to build EV) but most frames nowadays have DR in some way or can mod it
Ember
- The second half of the Fire and Ice duo is hilariously sad, and its made funnier because this year they dropped 2 frames that do her shtick better. (not to say Frost is doing much better, dude has 2 garbage abilities, and is carried hard by augments).
- Her 1 is garbage outside of its augment
- Her fireblast is an armor strip that has restrictions tied to its effectiveness and which actively punishes you for using it (by reducing immolation meter thus reducing your DR).
- Immolation is a 90% DR capped conditional survivability tool with a constant drain that CONTINUES TO RAMP UP. That gets reduced by your main armor strip tool drastically... Fun fact Gauss can get a casual 100% DR just by existing, Citrine gives EVERYONE 90% DR just by killing shit (playing the game).
- her 4 is a LOS based "nuke" with an angle tied to it as well (literally why?) that doesn't hit very hard at all...
- (Edit) About fireblast I really gotta shit on this ability because what the fuck do you mean your armor strip, not only is it tied to a different ability that drains your energy at an absurd rate (that constantly increases mind you). But casting it will reduce your DR (even if only temporarily) just for 100% armor strip... NEKROS IS OLDER THAN THIS REWORK BY YEARS AND TERRIFY IS AN UNCONDITIONAL AOE ARMOR STRIP. Styanax can just fucken bitch slap anyone and bam, armor gone. Pillage is a massive AOE armor strip and shield strip, and it gives you shields. Avalanche, T-Sunder, Polarize, Psychic Bolts, Reckoning (pre and post rework), Bastille.
How tf did Ember get a worse armor strip ability (her 2nd best ability btw), and its somehow on the day of its inception already an inferior armor strip to most of the ones that already existed.
Nekros
- Ok this ones kinda false addition here but Nekros is fine. Boring as hell to play properly but he is in fact fine. Terrify is great, Desecrate is good, Shield of Shadows is good. I only have 2 issues
- Soul Punch while I recognize its uses (turning enemies that dont naturally "die" into shadows), I think this could be so much more.
- Shadows, I think he needs to lean better into the "necromancer" shtick. The summons really don't do anything interesting and need their augment to feel useful- (outside of reviving eximus units)
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST
Rhino
- Like Nekros, Rhino is actually NOT BAD. Roar is obv amazing. Ironskin is great. Rhino stomp is good. There's just one small issue-
- You're telling me they reworked ironskin and didn't change this dudes dog shit passive?
- Also Rhino charge is just bad
DE!
REWORK CHROMA SO I CAN PLAY AS A COOL DRAGON AND MY SOUL IS YOURS
Not exactly. Paired with Rift surge, you can cycle enemies close to the border and Radial Banish quicker, so that you don't have to hold your fire if you cleared the center of the bubble and wait for the RS enemies close to the border to finally pop out, to cycle.
But I'd say Banish is the safer option against eximus units.
Honestly, I believe that Revenant just needs a few tweaks to make his non-mesmer skin abilities stronger and to make mesmer skin less brain-dead. He does not need a full blown rework with new abilities. His kit is already fairly coherent, it's just a bit slow. The main change I would make is to make Enthrall spread faster, by making the ability cast itself aoe and for it to be able to partially affect eximus (for the purpose of reave setups). I would probably give Mesmer Skin a cooldown (about 10-20 seconds) once it expires, but in addition to reave, now his 4's pickups are his passive, apply to all enthralled enemies and restore a single mesmer skin charge. I would also make his 4 scale better, by making it trigger the thrall pillar explosions on hit. This would make his abilities a lot stronger while making mesmer skin require more effort. Though do take everything with a grain of salt, I was in a rush while writing this.
Equinox needs some modernization not a full rework she’s genuinely just good
honestly full agree i would just love incentive to actually play in to her theme, because its such a cool theme; weve gotten offensive supports since her, even moving previous supports in to more active offense roles to come in line w the state of the game
and separately each form has so much potential; like individually theyre incredibly cohesive and consistent (even if rest+pacify and rage+provoke Can be redundant) but imo theres no real integration outside of a brief buff on the form change itself.
like thematically i think duality (the augment) should be the goal, where some part of the other side still comes through; bc while different, theyre both her and they arent competing
Yeah her "DR" being so overly complicated needs some light touch up , kinda like what nyx got in 1999
I hate to say, but if you want them to actually balance frames that are lacking…they need to remove roar and nourish from helminth. This will cause some frames to have a painful few weeks/months, but it should cause them to give small or large reworks to frames that need love.
Painful is an understatement, and months is also an understatement. Losing those subsumes wouldn't make DE work any faster on reworks than they can, but it would definitely make some frames near unplayable.
You're right that those abilities shouldn't be such a crutch for everyone, though. The helminth has proven to be a very fun bandaid, but man, the wound underneath is getting pretty rotten.
I don't think this is the answer, warframe is about player choice and people may have invested heavily into those options it goes against DEs philosophy of buffs over nerfs and not removing content.
Why the hell is Revenant there? He's like every Meta player's Main.
Well, Rev is fine power-wise. He is just boring...
funnily enough revenant is just faster gauss -atk spd
Hot take, but I'll respect that.
I'm saying that as a gauss main btw. revenant's reave's mechanic is just so much better and faster than mach rush, which literally has a stats that kill all of your speed and momentum(the 12m dash) for what ever reason.
You are right. Also, on my way to put Thermal Sunder and some Gauss-like fashion on my Revenant just for the joke.
AND I SHALL NICKNAME HIM... Turbo Granny, the ghostly speedster.
https://preview.redd.it/ptzail29a9ag1.jpeg?width=422&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=498a6e2d73b056c16ec998a5a2a05937dbf21f9a
I love equinox but the 2/3 are mid, they also don’t really do anything without maim so I get it Like give day form a blind that would be cool and buffs up the ass
Tbh all equinox needs is tweaks and Energy transfer to just be part of the base kit. Like she has, effectively, 6 abilities (and an ability to swap between them). But you’re discouraged from switching between the two forms to properly utilize them without this mod. She’s perfectly if you need a nuke or want to farm sleeping enemies but that’s pretty much it.
Some tweaks: - energy transfer is now base warframe functionality pls I beg - mend affects defense objectives at a reduced rate because “500 overshields” is literally nothing XD - mend uses a timer of constant regen instead of just being a one time burst heal so that it’s useful for far more allies than just health tanks that can heal themselves anyways - pacify and provoke are now timed debuff/buff abilities because their channeled drains are kinda convoluted and hard to really see. Also pacify drains you REALLY fast against some enemies. (If they really have to be channeled drains then at least just make it flat energy/s and not conditional on what is happening around you because too much happens around people for them to adequately control the situation lol). - provoke is now affinity range based because building for negative strength thresholds is not really a thing anymore (I think), an trying to get people to stand within 18m of you is functionally impossible. - metamorphosis should not wipe out the opposite form abilities. Just like, let them stack if people want to be silly with it. There are warframes that can render their team functionally invincible, letting pacify and provoke be active at the same time won’t break the game lol.
If I see "subsume" I immediately don't listen to anyone's build, if you need nourish or roar it's not a good build it's a shit build with roar or nourish.
But hear me out : gauss with energized munitions on his 3 and put a shit load of duration so you get a big boost on his 4 and you enjoy the acceltra for more than 2 sec or choose any gun you want. Maussolon is also quite funny
Eh, agree on nourish. But roar is fun. It makes non-viable stuff viable.
Jajaj real, loki users gonna hit you with the "He's immortal with the bandaid augment that means h doesn't need any buffs" 😹
1) He's immortal without it if you use your brain
2) It's not a bandaid when you can be immortal without it.
I like Rev where he is. It allows me to see the people I don't want to play with. Rev and Torid are key signs to them being a bad player.
as a revenant main please give my boy a rework
i love his survivability but he's boring rn (no i'm not switching my main. switching would feel like putting down a pet after maining him for so long)
Equinox and Revenant are still amazing frames, Loki not so much. The other 2 just haven't been changed in a while, but that's because they're still top tier frames.
Equinox was my fave frame for a loooooong time. But im not in denial and can admit that she's super mediocre atm. Similar to frames like loki or banshee, she's one of those "can only really be used if playing a specific playstyle in solo mode". Anything else and she's obsolete, abilities are irrelevant, and squishy af.
In Day form she has a 50 meter nuke that can be fueled by either her or her team, she can also apply and spread damage vulnerability, and can buff ability strength by a decent chunk.
She is nowhere near Loki or Banshee at the bottom, neither of them have massive level scaling nukes or highly desirable buffs. I'd also argue she performs better in groups than she does in solo, since she can buff her allies' ability strength, and her allies can fuel her Maim.
The only thing Equinox may struggle with is survivability, but no more than any other non-tank frame, granted unlike non-tank frames, her Night form does offer decent survivability. You enable Maim, run around on her, accumulate 10 enemies worth of Maim charge, then unleash your Maim charge when a lot of enemies are on your map within 50 meters but beyond your line of sight.
"Loki or Banshee at the bottom" maybe in group play, but there's nothing wrong with loki in solo.
As for equinox:
With the slash changes a long while back, where now they're weaker but can stack infinitely, a "single strong slash" in itself is pretty mid. And then you need to have it fed by anything that ISN'T her 4, get it to a high number, find a group of enemies that your squadmates didn't already kill, and THEN release 4. Also damage lowers based on distance, so you're gonna need a lot more enemies' hp stored up if you wanna try to nuke anything that isn't relatively close. ALSO also, since the stored damage is slash damage but NOT a slash STATUS EFFECT, unlike the base hit from the aura, it does NOT ignore armor. Gonna need a LOT of saved up damage to kill enemies with armor.
Ability str buff is nice, but it's a pitiful amount without her augment, and requires casting to be within range. At that point, might as well just subsume nokko's shroom which gives more power str, and also provides energy even through toggles.
Nightform sucks outside of solo play. Crowd control is irrelevant when everything dies, so her 2 and 3 are worthless, and her 3 also requires a stupid amount of energy consumption over time to get it to the stronger levels and have any decent range. Night's 4 is the only thing worth even attempting to build into, in which case why bother making a whole build around 1 semi-ok support ability when there's other frames that support better and with more usability?
Loki was a good glaive platform but ash kinda took his spot 😞
dream for a mesa touchup
Imo they just need to make her abilities recastable
It’s ridiculous that to this day it hasn’t been implemented
Also her 1 still seems meh but I haven’t used it in years tbh
Revenants 4 is actually pretty fun when you borrow Nokko's shroom. Infinite bounce house laser show
Equinox has such a cool style and gimmick that's ruined by the fact you only use 1/8 of her abilities.
( Looking at you Chroma, revenant, Loki and banshee)
Revenant is fine, imo. Maybe a bit boring, but he still performs well.
But GOOD GOD do I NEVER want to farm Equinox, I've never gotten them purely because I don't wanna farm for two warframes at once. And the fact it takes the longest to build is downright ridiculous. If they're gonna overhaul ANYTHING, I want that crafting process completely revised.
Nah, he need one, the 2 needs to be debuffed a bit, especially with DE wanting player to actively gain their invul, and this may just be me, but the 4 is mid, and the 1 could use some qol, good ability, give me qol like being able to get all 7 thralls in a cast, or uncap my thralls(is a straight buff, but it would be welcome af)
They shouldn't rework Rev in a way that nerfs mesmer but makes his other abilities useful (like they did to Wukong when they took his defy), because there are a lot of disabled gamers who are only able to enjoy this game thanks to it. He's like an accessibility setting and changing him could literally revoke certain peoples' access to the game. He's not hurting anyone, he's not intrusive, he's not ruining your gameplay by blowing up the entire map, so just let him be. He makes for a good weapons platform because he is naturally disposed towards power-strength modding, so he simply edges out Loki in terms of the power of the weapon buffing, and then also accessibility since the immortality doesn't require targetting.
Equinox is doing fine and doesn't care about Roar or Nourish. You subsume Terrify in order to strip, and then nuke, enemies in a large radius without LoS checks. Yes, you need to build up the nuke with weapon kills or ally kills inbetween, but then the release of Maim simply edges out many other nukes because it ignores LoS. For instance:
Dante nukes require LoS. Sevagoth nukes require LoS. Volt discharge does bypass LoS and works well enough for ESO but doesn't scale into steel path. Mirage's Legerdemain does bypass LoS and works well enough for ESO but doesn't scale into steel path and her other killing methods like her 4 and her buff builds don't bypass LoS. Saryn Spore builds do bypass LoS but requires extremely high enemy density and a lot of maintenance. Uriel bypasses LoS but requires depleting his meter. Nezha can bypass LoS but can only target non-overguarded enemies with his spears. Gyre can nuke bypassing LoS but she needs to snapshot fissure double ability strength and range for it to cover a large enough area to even really be considered "nuking". The only nuke which is consistently bypassing LoS and has no real buildup time or requirements, hence breaking all the rules, is the Cyte-09+Sobek setup. However, that's hardly even ability nuking in the first place, and this strategy is literally edging EVERY FRAME out for KPM, so it's not really an Equinox criticism. So, Equinox has their niche, especially with their power strength buffs for the squad.
Loki was just a frame made for a different era of warframe that we've moved away from.
Get Revenant out of here
He is powerful, but lack of power isn't the only reason a frame should be reworked.
I get Nourish being what it is but it’s such a boring option to me.
Imo, Nezah is amazing. However I do feel like he could use a bit of a buff for more content closer to endgame (he's stupid fragile lmao, and not enough of a cannon to afford it, it feels like (maybe I should see about build videos for him))
I do think Equinox could use a rework, but until then Slash Nuke Equinox seems to work decently well. I found that terror works well as a subsume for strip before nuke, but you could probably get through most content with standard kit nuke.
Can't think of a single rework I hated. The only critique I have is removing WoF on ember. They could've just reworked the ability, not outright replace it, especially how good fire is now.
Loki really doesn’t need a rework, he’s simply just a stealthy frame with a gun who distracts enemies and moves fast…..I really don’t know what else you’d need a Loki to do?
Equinox? What for?
Weird seeing an easy top dmg frame on something like this. Especially one that versatile.
As a Loki main I think Loki needs a rework to synergize with all his skills, even his passive sucks. His 4 specifically is very outdated and it's the easy subsumable slot. Loki can be unkillable with just stacking duration and 3 and invisible can help with damage but his entire kit just doesn't synergize at all. While his 1st ability got the damage treatment with the new augment, it's still kinda meh when you think about the entirety of all his skills. Nyx is more of a goddess of mischief than Loki.
This comment section needs to understand that needing a rework doesnt exclusively mean "this warframe is bad" it can also mean they dont match the game anymore one way or another
I just find equinox awkward to play, just never really vibed with how she feels to play, while Loki I just don't know how they could rework him all his abilities as they are when most frames can clear a room in 1-2 button presses. And rev I just find him boring the way most play, I like his spinin94 just wish it scaled better.
Im confused. Its been a while but I used to be an equinox main. Did they get nerfed?
Equinox is best frame, but I would love a rework to make them more stronk regardless because I am unskilled af. As well as the fact we've got all the Sol&Lua stuff it's a good time to rework the sun and moon duality frame. Equinox deserves some luv
I learnt to cope with the situation.
Equinox: Just choose day form and stick with it. At least it can nuke without LOS.
Loki: Chill game play where you won't get shot at constantly. Although Nokko update seems to "break" that, now enemies know exactly where you are and shoot there, so invisibility means nothing now I guess. It also make me play Loki a bit less because his only niche is be stripped away from him.
Revenant: I use him to deal with DE bullshit contents like EDA, ETA... I absolutely hate those to the core but I need the shards so fuck me I guess.
I strongly believe all suggestions and complaints sent to DE is treated as Sisters of Parvos said ingame: "directly to the bin". DE will change whatever the hell they want and one in a while in a blue moon one of the changes matches some player's suggestions, and we thought "oh my god they finally listen to us".
They're Fi-
Equinox is still good but not in the way their frame makes you think they would. Dante is closer to that. And better too.
The other two, yeah they need work. Loki’s kit doesn’t even really work anymore.
Those are 3 very specific examples: Rev is so fucking braindead overpowered that yeah that might need some work to see how to make him more interesting as a whole instead of just being OP. Mileage may vary how important that is.
Damage Decoy has been something i have been playing on and off with and it does slap kinda hard. Loki is hard ot execute on and basically none of it is unique to him. I think there are niches that make him super interesting but i also think that his place is so specific that i would not fault anyone who says "yeah please... just do something else."
Equinox needs a rework. Just period. Hard to farm, hard to play, but not because skill but because the frame fights you on every corner... I have a strong feeling like Ivara. It's not that there is nothing there, because Navigator is objectively OP, but you need to work against basically everything you wanna do in Warframe to really make it work and it is kinda so specific... Loki is easier to use.
Revenant's actually really well designed but suffering from success with Mesmer Skin and honestly I think they need to bite the bullet and nerf it somehow.
Loki is also surprisingly good on anything with objectives that aren't killing and absolutely fulfills the fantasy of being a tricksy bitch and doing some Goofery, I'd say Switch Teleport is the weakest link in his kit but I struggle to think of anything to replace it with and everything he has could be better. I'd say something more on top of what each of his abilities already do would be fine, one thought I had was having Switch Teleport make you ignore armor or do a radial defense strip, but if you hand him a bomb or something I feel like that would weaken the clear identity he already has as the all in utility and control stealth frame where every single other stealth frame is to some degree big on damage.
Equinox I think would be fixed if Energy Transfer was base kit and her buff that I'm blanking on the name for (and refuse to look up because it's 3am for me) was duration based instead of another channel so you would be incentivized to swap between both forms to keep it up, also getting the benefits of her 1's buffs in the process and giving chances to use both versions of her 2.
Why would the people that don't want reworks at all want to use the most braindead meta subsumes?
"I can win any boxing match, just give me a gun."
Loki it's so rare to see one now
Loki's kit still works fairly well but because the game has evolve so much that what his kit falls behind
He does need a rework but I won't say his kit is bad, its like bread, you would rarely eat it on its own but with some fillings its not bad.
Loki doesn't need a rework his kit works for what he does and he has had his time in the sun. He is still very powerful he just doesn't nuke but we are in a weapons meta so abilities don't need to nuke. Spectral serration, crepuscular and damage decoy make him perfectly powerful enough while still being the easiest high duration inviz frame and being able to take silence for if you really need easy mode.
Skill issue
My opinion. If a Warframe requires a helminth ability, it has to be reworked. I'm probably in the minority but I despise the helminth because it's just a crutch for many frames. Frames should have a kit of skills that all compliment each other. I understand there are a bunch of old frames that really need some love. But it's also tiring to see every time when there is a new frame, there is always at least one person that tries to cram nourish or roar to a Warframe, even at the cost of a Great kit.
I hope if they rework rev Mesmer Skin remains the way it is bcuz it's the perfect wf to use when Ure on mobile playing with touchscreen bcuz manouvering properly and all that is quite limited and u wouldn't be able to dodge shots and survive well in long runs so rev works as my proper panic room on mobile
ah yes use a weapon with nourish and do not press any other ability, truly a perfect way to play any frame
There are 4 frames there but Ivara is in her Prowl and hasnt been touched in ages
Loki works for me, however, i have 3 augments in my build so thats saying something
As a general rule i try and make every 'frame in my stable viable, especially since Circuit became a thing. But those 3 offer nothing besides subsumed ability and a pair of hands to hold a (hopefully) juiced-up gun.
I don't see Ember
Loki works REALLY fucking well, but only very specific situations.
It's also funny to use switch teleport on a friend while you're jumping over a pit or water or something :)
I just want a Chroma rework, man...
My dragon boi is a beautiful peacock, ya gotta let him fly!
Listen, I'm not asking Excalibur to be fully reworked as he already was a few times. I'm just asking them to give him a new ability instead of his current 3. Just please let him have some sort of damage reduction on his 3 so I can actually tank with him with adaptation
Next time someone tells you some old frame doesn’t need rebalancing, hit them with the quote from our Archmagos Pablo, first of his name: "What balance?"
As someone who's been heavily invested in Loki for a month now, the augment for his one makes half his kit viable, instead of just invis.
Besides that I throw Mind Control over radial disarm, have an immortal buddy that wants everything to shoot him.
Please DE make the other half of Loki usable
I took Equinox on an archon hunt because shes one of my favorite but I normally only use her for low level wave wipes. Cut to me sitting in night form killing things with my friends and charging up 4 before using energy transfer to wipe out everything in the next 3 zipcodes.
What the fuck is Equinox?
Hot take but everyone that wants an equinox rework clearly uses overframe or YouTube to tell them what to use on a built so they all remove the whole part of her built thats about survivability just so they can ad terrify to it and then they complain about her feeling weak
Revenant doesnt need a rework because he's bad, he needs a rework because he's boring af
Every time I hear nourish and I don't see a Grendel on my team I feel sick
I don't get that argument at all. Slap the Torid and a shield gate build on any frame and they can be useable. Doesn't mean they don't need a rework because every frame can be fine using those two.
Limbo needs a rework WAY more than Equinox, I can at least make her work in Steel Path with pretty much any build I want.
Limbo on the other hand has been dogshit for Steel Path ever since the Eximus rework, and Jade Light being added just made it even worse for him.
He's barely viable in low level SO unless you're running a super strong subsume like Breach Surge and abusing the fact that his subsumes can still hit enemies even if you're in the rift.
If they touch maim, imma lose my shit.
Loki needs some love though. He's my most played frame, but only cause I did copious amounts of spy missions before Octavia was released. He's truly fallen off. Tried making a build around the decoy augment and it was terrible.
Revenant is immortal bro
The only thing Loki needs is the way to ignore overguard. Hell, it could be his new passive.
I mean, Revenant is good - he's just extremely boring and poses a conceptual issue for the game's balancing.
I'd honestly throw Limbo in there instead because a frame that so many people consider a troll pick that you can get yelled at just for joining a lobby with him probably deserves a rework, irrespective of whether or not you get good results if you use him well.
... I'm sorry, revenant?
How sick would it be if Loki could disguise as enemy characters? That's the kind of stuff I want to see
I agree with Equinox and Loki needing a rework. But Revenant if he were to get reworked would probably be to make him weaker. Mf is literally immortal and can 1 shot anything outside of like archons without a weapon or Roar.
If they rework rev they'll remove his invincibility and 100% of the so called "rev gamers" will either quit or change main
"trust me bro this frame doesnt need a rework you just don't gotta use their abilities"
Well, Revenant with mesmer aug(not even subsumed anything) is great, can't say much about Loki or Equinox, I (digitally) extremely rarely play them
Banshee not even mentioned. Her fall from grace is such a weird one.
Chroma, Limbo and Banshee are my top rework candidates
Loki is the goat idk what else you want from him revenant okay equinox haven’t played yet
When everything is "good", the things that take multiple times the effort and resources for the same result aren't
revenant is already great at what he does, equinox needs some minor adjustments. Loki is cooked. Why does no one mention Vauban?
If grendel wasn't such a chore to have, yeah, I would probably put nourish on a lot of frame, like my excal or my Octavia, but damn, as a solo/duo player it's a chore
Only one I could argue is Equinox is still ok. Revenant if anything needs a nerf like Jesus they didn’t need to make him go from trash to the most busted thing in the game. Loki though needs something either a rework or going back to fix the rest of the game so CC matters again.
People deadass be gaslighting on every frame who health tanks. And the dev team has the audacity to nerf the only arcane that makes health tanking viable in endgame. Idk if Arcane Expertise is a good alternate with Parasitic Armor.
Styanax was always the true Oberon rework, change my mind.
What's wrong with Loki? (I am fairly new.)
Revenant doesn't need a rework and I will die on this hill. He's the perfect solo frame. The only thing I will accept changing is his ult and that's only cause I don't build it right to do enough damage. Everything else is flawless.
rev is super strong just boring, and loki with his damage decoy is super strong. but equinox. yeah
Wth do you mean rev is perfect. I can just say no to dmg at all
Never subsumed a frame. Never will, I think. I want character in my frame not a perfect amagamation of them
Who's out here slandering my support nuke Equinox??
Everything is good you just HAVE TO PUT nourish or roar on it trust me bro
I understand that theyre good abilitys but at what point can we go back to the before helminth where you just ran the kits and actually played them to the fullest
Those three are very good tf you even on
"Nah Bro, just use 2 of your 8 slots for augments, put a subsume on, then intsert 5 tau shards, the warframe IS good". Jokes aside, more frames need the valkyr and nova treatment, not changing how they play but just making them better and simpler, you no longer need to run war cry on valkyr and her passive actually does something, and you no longer need 3 separate builds for nova
God himself could trip down on the stairway to heaven, land on his face in front of me, and say that Loki is a good warframe and I'd call him a fucking alcoholic
I as a loki main have to push the no required rework agenda until DE actually reworks him