People vastly overestimate how many men actually care about this or let it influence them.
And they seem to always skip the real origins of the idea, which is when PUA's introduced the alpha concept to guys as a way of improving posture and body language.
People love to attack this idea and will believe a cartoonishly embellished version of it is floating around and being worshiped by men if it means they get to rail against something and be right.
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This idea that "Alpha wolf" is bad science, is in itself an unfortunate logical fallacy - when its only fault is being a misunderstanding of the situation.
I'd say, given the facts, it's more likely that people who bring up the faults in the original study don't like to think about what it implies.
Wolf in captivity mixed randomly with non-family wolves start to show the behavior.
We have a manosphere obsessed with the copying the behavior
.... To conclude it's a cultural misnomer because of misinterpreted science is working against the facts we actually have.
A less convoluted conclusion is that we have a bunch of humans that feels trapped or in captivity that are continuously forced to mix with random non-family humans.
Or put in a less theoretical way; we all agreed that a boss calling their colleagues a family is disguising.
Comparing wolf captivity in a small zoo enclosure to cultural "captivity" is artistic, but absolutely ridiculous when trying to draw this type of conclusion.
When the dolphins at Seaworld are drowning and starving themselves to death we can plainly see the situation for what it is. But when suicide and depression explode in the human population we want to wring our hands about what an unsolvable mystery this is.
I don't know why I didn't see it myself, give everyone a mouthful of tuna! Brilliant, you've solved it all. /s
The only people "wringing their hands" are the manosphere chuds who don't want to confront the boring reality that overwork, social isolation, and poverty are leading to those issues. This "be more alpha" placebo sounds so much more exciting and, most importantly, lays the foundation for lucrative podcasts. In reality it just gets them kicked out of parties and gainful employment.
Would make sense if these men only act like this at work.
Suppose behaving like an alpha is a necessary survival tactic at your work place, where you are trapped because of socioeconomic conditions. Then the good-science conclusion is to recognize that and to build as much family as possible outside of work, not to see this as the optimal state and setting more traps for yourself.
I don't know what you're getting at. Alpha behavior is pushed by social media influencers to men of all ages, even preteens know why they should be an alpha.
Then the good-science conclusion is to recognize that
???
I can excuse some loosly chosen words, but this is too egregious. It has been debunked in every field that tries to study it: People do not show logical or optimal behavior. It is the foundational insight of behavior economics.
To say it would be a "good science conclusion" to change behavior you find irrational is practically the canonical example of wrong-science.
Would make sense if we were talking about men doing this by themselves to themselves. But the "alpha male" thing has been pushed by influential podcasts etc, they do have real effect on culture and behavior. They're doing bad science on purpose, to sell supplements and get votes.
The video explicitly makes the comparison to "prison rules". Those existed, with the sometimes similar behaviors, well before any influential podcaster told them to behave that way.
The influencers didn't make up a story. They self-selected the most effective one and then embellished it into absurdity. Yes, the influencers are obviously pushing bad science. Yes they have effect on culture and behavior. But in your telling they created it from nothing, and in mine they molded
I can't help but suspect people are disagreeing because my first comment can sound like I agree with the ? 20% ? of people who buy into "alpha males".
I dont think its good or right that they do. I'm just observing they are.
But we're talking about why the original science does actually say something meaningful. The same goes for prisons; not all prisons are set up and have the type of people that result in the "alpha wolf" behavior. Some do. When people behave that way, look at the prison and don't just dismiss the original research as saying nothing intresting.
I can only assume people have lost their ability to read, and can not distinguish between an analysis of the ? 20% ? of people that buy into a bad world view, and somebody buying into it.
That's my fault. I should have added more disclaimers to my post, and maybe somebody would have furthered the discussion by saying something interesting.
People vastly overestimate how many men actually care about this or let it influence them.
And they seem to always skip the real origins of the idea, which is when PUA's introduced the alpha concept to guys as a way of improving posture and body language.
People love to attack this idea and will believe a cartoonishly embellished version of it is floating around and being worshiped by men if it means they get to rail against something and be right.
Exactly. It's convienient to the narrative
It’s all bandwagon effect
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This idea that "Alpha wolf" is bad science, is in itself an unfortunate logical fallacy - when its only fault is being a misunderstanding of the situation.
I'd say, given the facts, it's more likely that people who bring up the faults in the original study don't like to think about what it implies.
.... To conclude it's a cultural misnomer because of misinterpreted science is working against the facts we actually have.
A less convoluted conclusion is that we have a bunch of humans that feels trapped or in captivity that are continuously forced to mix with random non-family humans.
Or put in a less theoretical way; we all agreed that a boss calling their colleagues a family is disguising.
Comparing wolf captivity in a small zoo enclosure to cultural "captivity" is artistic, but absolutely ridiculous when trying to draw this type of conclusion.
When the dolphins at Seaworld are drowning and starving themselves to death we can plainly see the situation for what it is. But when suicide and depression explode in the human population we want to wring our hands about what an unsolvable mystery this is.
I don't know why I didn't see it myself, give everyone a mouthful of tuna! Brilliant, you've solved it all. /s
The only people "wringing their hands" are the manosphere chuds who don't want to confront the boring reality that overwork, social isolation, and poverty are leading to those issues. This "be more alpha" placebo sounds so much more exciting and, most importantly, lays the foundation for lucrative podcasts. In reality it just gets them kicked out of parties and gainful employment.
I'm not talking about Andrew Tate and the half dozen other podcasters with an audience in the tens of thousands (out of 4 billion men on the planet).
I was directly telling you that comparing wolf captivity in a small zoo enclosure to cultural captivity is perfectly apt.
And I'm telling you it's not.
Would make sense if these men only act like this at work.
Suppose behaving like an alpha is a necessary survival tactic at your work place, where you are trapped because of socioeconomic conditions. Then the good-science conclusion is to recognize that and to build as much family as possible outside of work, not to see this as the optimal state and setting more traps for yourself.
Have you heard of cognitive behavioral therapy?
Do abused people start acting normally once removed from the presence of their abuser?
I don't know what you're getting at. Alpha behavior is pushed by social media influencers to men of all ages, even preteens know why they should be an alpha.
???
I can excuse some loosly chosen words, but this is too egregious. It has been debunked in every field that tries to study it: People do not show logical or optimal behavior. It is the foundational insight of behavior economics.
To say it would be a "good science conclusion" to change behavior you find irrational is practically the canonical example of wrong-science.
Would make sense if we were talking about men doing this by themselves to themselves. But the "alpha male" thing has been pushed by influential podcasts etc, they do have real effect on culture and behavior. They're doing bad science on purpose, to sell supplements and get votes.
The video explicitly makes the comparison to "prison rules". Those existed, with the sometimes similar behaviors, well before any influential podcaster told them to behave that way.
The influencers didn't make up a story. They self-selected the most effective one and then embellished it into absurdity. Yes, the influencers are obviously pushing bad science. Yes they have effect on culture and behavior. But in your telling they created it from nothing, and in mine they molded
I can't help but suspect people are disagreeing because my first comment can sound like I agree with the ? 20% ? of people who buy into "alpha males".
I dont think its good or right that they do. I'm just observing they are.
But we're talking about why the original science does actually say something meaningful. The same goes for prisons; not all prisons are set up and have the type of people that result in the "alpha wolf" behavior. Some do. When people behave that way, look at the prison and don't just dismiss the original research as saying nothing intresting.
You're spot on.
Who is downvoting this?
So, are you an alpha?
I can only assume people have lost their ability to read, and can not distinguish between an analysis of the ? 20% ? of people that buy into a bad world view, and somebody buying into it.
That's my fault. I should have added more disclaimers to my post, and maybe somebody would have furthered the discussion by saying something interesting.
I can't actually read because I'm an alpha
Nothing scarier than having to use your brain for a bit eh?
As an alpha, I don't need to. Didn't you read my last comment? Seems like you have problems with reading comprehension.
oh look, more emasculation propaganda.
Damn bro you’re really that fragile?
Move along, snowflake.