Generally speaking over the past 20 years or so, DC has done better animated stuff than live action stuff, and Marvel has always done better live action stuff than animated stuff.
Well admittedly my above comment is heavily biased because I really didn't appreciate any of the films that came out during the ten or so years that Snyder was heading the DC franchise. I thought James Gunn's Superman was okay but it's too early to tell if their course correction will be successful or not, especially since everyone seems to be getting over the superhero genre. I'm cautiously optimistic though!
Yeah while I didnât agree with everything Gunn did you could see the source material and it was a step in the right direction. Snyder was abysmal imo
The silver lining is that Man of Steel gave us that amazing scene where Clark just stood there and watched his foster father wait for a tornado to wipe him out. That was certainly a choice đ
I still loathe the fact that they discontinued it because of "cHilDrEN wOUlD nOT UnDErsTAnD bIGGeR OveR-aRchInG pLotS".
It was probably the best representation of Marvel universe in general up to this day, and the thing MCU craved to be until entire thing flopped very harshly after endgame.
Kang aside, I've watched MCU until Brave New World, and I'm not a fan of the "villains that appear in one movie, have lots of potential, but also dies in said movie". Feels like they're pruning whatever potential storylines that could have been.
Lets see, we had (villain spoilers until phase 5) Mandarin, Wen Wu, Ego, Ultron, Hela, Cassandra. I wanted to see more of them.
Due to me watching Loki after the Ant Man movie, I was super hyped for Kang. After finishing Ant Man and seeing the post credit scene I wasn't impressed, but seeing Kang in Loki restored my faith that he could have been great. Maybe they messed up with the release order of those 2
Ant-Man Quantummania was just poorly handled in general, I think Loki being Kang's introduction was fine, it helped set the stakes nice and early, but losing a fist fight to Ant Man on his very next appearance was a major (heh) misstep.
It's been said before but Kang should have killed someone in Ant-Man to set the stakes higher. I was honestly surprised at the end when no one died and they basically won with little consequence.
The post credits scene was the biggest part of the problem. It should have engendered a sense of fear and menace. Instead the biggest feelings after watching it were confusion and discomfort. This:
Insane budget, terrible fx, boring story, Ant Man, and your BIG bad got killed by ants in it.
That was it for Kang. I donât care about how many versions there are or how he could have been recastâŠthat movie killed all of that characters credibility.
Majors was annoying as Kang, just as bad as Leto's Joker. Felt dumb to have him be such a big character from the beginning. Also, RDJ as Doom is an engineered flop to punish the fans who didn't accept the new phase or whatever they're calling the post-endgame crap.
I've never read the comics so I can't compare Major's to those. Seeing him in Ant Man and Loki made him an intriguing character for me. I do listen to the YouTuber Comics Explained to try get an understanding of the comic lore, but I don't think it does the comics justice without reading them myself. Could you explain why Major's was a bad casting for Kang
Not going to comment on the RDJ part of your comment for the same reason as to why I'm uninformed regarding Major's being Kang is a bad casting
I think RDJ and Evanâs are back to steady the ship, but I also think Doom was chosen because Time Runs Out is probably one of the easiest stories to adapt based on what the original plan was with time travel and the multiverse. Added benefit for them (and potentially us) is that they can pull in even more nostalgia bait than they were originally planning by adapting Battle World, and my guess is that weâll end up with better Avengers films then we would have with Kang.
He wasn't that bad, but if you've seen Majors in other roles. You quickly realize that he's not as good of an actor as he can seem. He does the same few things for every role, for example the meek mannerisms and voice, which he does very well.. But he can't change it up, it's identical whenever he does it in any movie or show.
The of acting you see of him in Loki, that's all he has, there is no range beyond that. And with different Kang versions you would need a big range.
That's what's cool about Kang. Each version doesn't need to be top tier. We were being shown the Kangs that weren't as good as the ones that would have been an Avengers level threat.
Exactly! It's not like they had to beat Kang to escape the Quantum Realm.
Both Kang's and the Pym-Langs' motivations were to escape the QR. There are a lot of ways they could have made that happen without turning Kang into a jobber who got his ass kicked by the Ant-Fam.
It crazy how people forget Kang is an Avengers villain and Hank Pym is a founding member Avenger on par with the rest. Kang was facing them not only where he was weakest, but where Pym is at his peak. The Quantum Realm is Pym's playground while it is Kang's prison. The real fumble was making the MCU Ultron made my Tony instead of Pym and making Ant-Man seem like a secondary character in the Avengers' line-up. Then no one would've questioned the guys who literally hack the science behind size manipulation for beating a time-traveler in a realm powered by size where time is irrelevant and useless. It's a basic rock-paper-scissors situation
Ant-Man defeating Kang in the Quantum Realm of all places is not as abnormal as people seem to think it is
Kang was facing them not only where he was weakest, but where Pym is at his peak.
Show, don't tell. It doesn't matter what we say Hank supposedly is. Nothing in the movie hinted to him having a particular advantage over kang just because they were in the quantum realm. They were saved by a deus ex machina. If anything, according to the movie, the quantum realm is the ants at their peak.
I still think the whole Ant-Man thing can be salvaged. So yeah, he's stuck fighting an infinite number of his potential selves. His only way out is to kill as many of himself as he can and harvest the elements the bodies and clothes/tech are made of. He can probably hold off his other selves long enough to get his suit to fabricate some very basic lab and forge equipment.
Maybe like 20 years of him fighting and harvesting himself (dimensional time) he shows up in MCU again. Piercing through dimensions to get back to the MCU proper. Different actor now because he's aged so much fighting himself.
He was extremely well received in loki. Hype to fuck. Antmam may have been not so well received but his loki reception was so hype he was still well received overall.
From what I recall of Quantumania, that version of Kang was supposed to be the worst: he'd been banished to the quantum realm by the Council of Kangs because he was the Kangiest.
I realise that this isn't necessarily an argument against recasting, but might have been one of the reasons they didn't.
But then Ant Man beat him with zero consequences. Nobody died, nobody got lost in the quantum realm, everything was fine, so the character was nothing but hype anyway.
There were rumors that majors had a clause in his contract that only he could portray any variants of Kang. If Marvel really agreed to that and it derailed everything Because it meant they couldnât recast him with out getting in a drawn out legal battle, thatâs fucking wack on their part and horrible foresight
No seriously, that backfired tremendously. Iâm no lawyer obviously, but was there really no way they couldâve worked in some clause like âbtw if you screw up and go to jail all bets are offâ?
They would have spent months arbitrating such a clause given Majors didn't go to jail, and also would have been waiting to meet whatever constitutes breaking the clause actively.
And those rumors don't make even the tiniest bit of sense.
I don't believe for a second that Kevin Fiege or anyone else at Marvel/Disney would have agreed to that clause, and even if they had, there's no way it wouldn't have contained a "reputational damage" exclusion.
Not necessarily. That clause would only be a contract that Johnathan Majors had added. This doesnât apply to every character. Things can apply to one contract and not another. He probably just didnât have that in his contract.
Please correct Iâm if Iâm wrong, but IIRC a stipulation of Majorsâ contract was that only he could portray Kang on screen.
Which is funny bc of all the villains who could be played by different actors and have it work, Kang was THE guy. Having different variants of himself across timelines show up to fight the heroes is his whole deal.
Itâs also why itâs so funny that the end credits of Quantumania showed that EVERY SINGLE Kang, even the weird alien ones ALL look like Majors.
a stipulation of Majorsâ contract was that only he could portray Kang on screen
As much as I love The Weekly Planet, that was an unsubstantiated rumour they discussed once that they have never reiterated or followed up on in a positive manner since then.
A lot of early fancasts/rumors hinted at Colman Domingo replacing Majors as Kang (wouldâve been a good replacement). Why not bring him in to play the character, instead of the âDowney Jr. as Doom/bring back Steve Rogers for no reasonâ route?
I'd be okay with them doing this Doom cycle and then revisiting Kang. I love Kang, but they were trying to do too much after End Game. Too many epilogue stories to pass torches that didn't need their own releases. Too much time in between the gems that have worked well post-End Game.
Idk if this is true but I read that on Majors' contract it said that he can be the only Kang actor for a few years even though he was fired the contract is still up
Cuz they put all their eggs in one basket by establishing him as every single variant of Kang. There was even a fish version of him that still looked like Jonathan Majors in the council of Kangs scene.
Despite there being some Loki variants that didn't even look like him. Now imagine, after all that, how hard it would be to have a whole other character claiming to be Kang.
Kang variants even have different appearances in the comics too, but MCU made the mistake of establishing JM as every single Kang variant. It was just cheaper and more logical to just move on.
My best guess would be that majors was contracted for X amount of movies and Disney would have had to pay him out the rest of his contract if they recast kang for whatever movies he had left
To water it down, 9/11 inspired my chemical romance (the band) which then inspired Stephanie Meyer to write the Twilight novels, which led to the creation of 50 shades of gray, which is essentially a fan fiction of Bella and Edward from twilight
And then there was a 50 shades movie starring Dakota Johnson that led ended up getting Ellen deGeneres cancelled after she exposed her for being a bad person
Gerard Way personally witnessed 9/11 which inspired him to create My Chemical Romance. MCR inspired Stephenie Meyer to write Twilight. 50 Shades of Grey started as a fanfiction of Twilight which evolved into its own thing.
Assuming you're not being sarcastic (it's been referenced quite a lot), 9/11 inspired the founding of My Chemical Romance, which was a major influence on Twilight, which 50 Shades started as a fanfic of.
I might be getting some of the details wrong, but essentially the lead singer of My Chemical Romance was so shaken by 9/11 that he gave up his 9-5 to pursue music. In turn, this woman wrote some saucy fan-fiction stuff based off of MCR/her adoration for them. Last step, the author of 50 Shades was inspired by said fanfic to write it.
I didn't see an answer. You also could be using sarcasm but, yes.
Johnathan Majors got arrested for domestic assault. He was charged, thus fired by Marvel. Marvel didn't want to recast Kang. So instead they went with Doom. This was a wrench in the plan, so they brought RDJ back. Fans speculated(and the loud wanted) that Evans would come back. The loud didn't like Mackie as Captain America. Marvel, bringing RDJ back, also decided to bring Evans back.
We'd still have Doom one way or another when we knew they were making Fantastic Four and Secret Wars. Whether they'd still cast RDJ for that role is up for debate tho.
Beltran was an average actor playing a boring badly written character who didn't present a good foil for the Captain of the Federation Starship Voyager. Seven of Nine was created, originally ostensibly as eye candy but Jeri Ryan's acting chops made her more than the sum of her, ahem, parts and she became very popular and probably saved the show. Her ex husband Jack ran for an open Senate seat but the records of his divorce from Jeri were unsealed and were very embarrassing to him and he dropped out essentially handing the seat to Obama in 2004.
Star Trek: Voyager. Â Robert Beltran was picked as the shipâs commander, but he has no respect for science fiction and all of the depth of a thin crust pizza. Â So he was phoning it in to an incredible degree. Â Mulgrew was better, but was getting bipolar direction - literally, the way she was written inspired theories about her mental health. Â Regardless, most of the first two seasons were heavily based on Chakotay, Beltranâs character. Â He utterly failed to become interesting, even when they gave him ridiculously over the top storylines like âmy ex was a Cardassian spy that betrayed my ship and is raising my baby with the nomadic savages of Delta Quadrant.â
But Voyager was the flagship of the United Paramount Network (UPN) and was never going to be allowed to fail after two lackluster seasons, so they brought on an actress with prodigious assets, known at first as â36 of D.â Â Thing is, it turns out she could act - in fact, Iâd put her in my top ten actors in all of Trek. Â So she did really well (60% viewership bump), a bit part character was expanded, and most importantly, she moved from Chicago to Hollywood â and got a divorce in the process. Â The papers were sealed, as was fairly standard at the time. Â Her ex-husband Jack Ryan was an investment banker.
In 2004, her ex ran for Senator of Illinois  - against a relatively unknown Barack Obama.  And given the money involved (see: investment banker) it was shaping up to be a brutal run for Obama⊠right up until their divorce papers leaked, and it turned out that it was alleged that Jeri was forced to go to sex clubs and do kinky shit for (iirc) him and his coworkers or clients.
So, yeah, the family manâs budding political career crashed and burned, Obama was elected, and then Obama was selected to give the rebuttal against the 2008 Bush State of the Union and absolutely nailed it, which launched him into political superstardom and led to him winning the election.
Well yes, but Ryan was constantly behind in the polls from the get go. While it might have been a closer race with Ryan still in, Obama would have been the overwhelming favorite. The DNC speech put him on the radar of the nation.
That also gives us Biden (obviously as Obama's VP) but also Trump, since many believe that Obama's heckling of Trump at the White House correspondents dinner was what pushed him to run in 2016. Plus the whole racist reaction against Obama helping propel the Trump campaign.
The Illinois Republican party had an idea of what was on the horizon. So much so that they tried to get Mike Ditka to replace Ryan to run against Obama. He declined, Alan Keyes took the spot, and the rest is history.
What are you guys talking about. They were ALWAYS going to bring the old characters back for secret wars. Why are twitters completely moronic takes having so much influence
It's not moronic at all. None of this was telegraphed, ever.
Like why did they give them such a no-doubt-about-it sendoff? Why was it never talked about on these subs before Downey was announced as Doom?
Maybe people invested in the actual comics knew about it. But 99% of the MCU viewerbase is pretty casual and evidently hadn't a single clue - why would they?
I believe Endgame was a sincere attempt at saying goodbye to Chris Evans and RDJ from the MCU and the only reason they, as well as the Russos, are returning is because the latest phases of the MCU have been borderline disastrous and none of their careers have greatly panned out outside the MCU. I donât think this was AT ALL the plan a few years ago.
i mean i thought knives out was a generally liked movie, i personally like grey man, red one wasnât bad from what i remember just a funny christmas movie, wasnât he buzz lightyear? iâm sure heâs been in others but just off the top of my head thatâs what i can remember. itâs not like heâs winning oscarâs but was steven rodgers?
And they would have still tried secret wars anyway, it just so happens to be during a shitty time during the mcu so everyone is immediately using that as ammo for their arguments
The MCUs and Kevin feiges philosophy has always been about bringing these characters together and having cool crossover events. Iâm pretty sure Kevin feige was the one trying to get crossovers to happen as far back as 2002 Spider-Man with the X-men. Of course he would want to finally bring all this together if he has the golden opportunity to. It would be his personal masterpiece. And for some reason fans suddenly have a problem with this as if they werenât creaming their pants at the previous 4 avengers movies even though this is the same fucking thing just taken to the ultimate level
It's conjecture but the MCU has tanked pretty heavily since Endgame. Nobody cares about any of the new characters that were supposed to take over once the original cast stepped aside. Films like Shang Chi, The Marvels and The Eternals all failed financially and critically so from a business standpoint it makes total sense that Disney would bring back the actors that people were actually willing to pay to see in theatres.
It grossed ~$432m USD, unfortunately making it one of the lower grossing MCU films. Which is too bad, I thought it was plenty enjoyable and I really liked the inspiration they drew from older kung fu movies.
To be fair you could argue that the pandemic was the main reason it didn't do well compared to other films in the franchise, but to me it came across as a pretty soulless attempt to try and profit off of the Chinese market. But because it got caught up with all the 'politics' thanks to the alt-right idiots running around calling all the Disney products 'woke', there was a bunch of pushback from marvel fans and the actors who starred in the film to try and convince everyone that the film was immensely successful. But a 400 million box office return is definitely towards the lower end of what most of the more popular films within the franchise have achieved.
They couldnt because Jonathan's contract stipulated he could be the ONLY one cast as Kang. They couldnt recast or have different variants of him because they would be contractually liable
Not to mention a small addition that in Loki, 2 Kang variants die. So 2 products, 3 Kang variantsâ death (countless times, even) and 0 wins. How do you build up an Avengers level threat with these numbers?
Yeah... I am one of the people that still wanted Kang Dynasty but I cannot deny how badly Quantumania ruined the characters chances of being an appealing Avengers villain.
It's really hard to convince people that Kang is a threat when he has been defeated twice already in the MCU by Loki and Ant-Man and those two versions were stronger/smarter ones than bog standard Kangs.
Hot take, but they should've just killed off Ant-Man in Quantumania. He rescues Janet and both Hope and his daughter are coming into their own as heros, Ant-Man isn't needed anymore. Turn the silly movie dark at the end, and cement Kang as a threat by killing off Ant-Man. The avengers/MCU is already too bloated anyways, it would've been a perfect way to remove a character to both escalate Hope and Cassandra and give Kang the boost he needed. The other route would've been making MODOK the main villain and Kang just the mastermind, but MODOK just doesn't work, trying to be faithful to the comic design he looks awful, despite his smaller part in the movie a lot of the bad press the movie got was because MODOK looked so ridiculous (because he does, in every media).
This comparison only works if you ignore how scott managed to beat kang. Kang was exiled to the quantum realm without most of his technology. He was intentionally heavily nerfed from the start. Then his suit was heavily damaged from his fight with scott, cassie, hope, hank, and the ants. Without his suit he's just a really smart guy. Scott beat one heavily nerfed kang. One out of a dynasty of kangs who when working together would've likely beaten the avengers in kang dynasty.
Ok I'm going to say this for all the guys saying he was found not guilty or he was acquitted, etc. He was found guilty of reckless assault and harassment. He was not sentenced to any jail time but some domestic violence program and probation. That does not change the fact he was CONVICTED. If he was actually found innocent, then you'd still be getting your Kang movies.
Yeah, pretty sure this was another Johnny Depp situation where at first everyone believes that the guy is the asshole, but it eventually comes out that the lady is the abusive jerk
Okay letâs take that at face value and ignore the convictions - so what about the other lady? And the other lady? And the other ladies, and the coworkers, etc.
That's quite a generous way to frame it; he's admitting to battery against the very same woman in a previous incident. In his televised interviews he claims to have never raised a hand to his partners, in private discussion he admits to doing so and more, and in the pre-trial statements multiple former partners of his corroborated physically abusive behavior.
The pattern of behavior's quite clear and there's very little room for benefit of the doubt.
Disney has former CIA working for them. They knew that that audio existed. I wouldnât be surprised if they dropped him because they found more stuff that hasnât come out yet.
Kang's story was gonna be ass from the beginning. Quantumania was just a pain to watch. I am glad that we are going to Doom. I am not gonna hate on anything until I actually see what it has to offer.
Be it Steve Rogers as Cap again or some other plot, I am expecting something nice. If it happens to suck then so be it.
Hard agree. I donât think that character or actors would be the way to go. The villain from guardians 3 was way more interesting in my personal opinion
Btw Jonathan didn't assault shit. He caused a bruise to her by trying to GET AWAY from her. It's officially documented. And has to suffer because a crazy bitch.
They were already discussing moving away from Kang internally before the entire situation. This was happening no matter what. RDJ signed on for this WAY before the reveal of him playing Doom. This was a slightly premeditated decision and the Russoâs have stated they wouldnât have returned if there wasnât an actually interesting story to tell. Itâs not a last minute desperate attempt to âreviveâ the MCU by bringing back familiar faces. But the movie really could go either way and if it flops then it was a nostalgia bait cash grab. But if it doesnâtâŠ
Yes it would. There is no possible future where Chris and RDJ didn't return. Infact I suspect they were going to return before 2030 anyway.
I also suspect that RDJ playing Doom will have been something at least discussed as a possible future plan before the whole Kang shit went down. There is now way that they just contacted RDJ and quickly wrote up a Dr Doom story for him in a matter of months. This was most likely always the back-up plan if Kang didn't work out.
It wouldn't have happened like this, but multiverse saga was always going to be about nostalgia. Or did you guys think Disney was going to just sit on properties like the Fox X-Men and Blade when they knew all they had to do was say they came from another universe?
Steve rogers was always going to come back, regardless of who doom was played by. Secret wars is marvels largest multiversal event it legitimately would not make sense for them to leave out one of their most popular heroes
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Kang wasnt well received. Getting beaten by antman of all heroes didnt help either. Marvel fucked up
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"A kids cartoon could do better", like, yeah? Isn't that industry standard?
https://preview.redd.it/aa28lbkc7i9g1.jpeg?width=505&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b331fa2414e5b6a9bf9ba3ebd37b134e3a3d0a74
Man this brings back memories
Generally speaking over the past 20 years or so, DC has done better animated stuff than live action stuff, and Marvel has always done better live action stuff than animated stuff.
Which is really weird. You have years and years of source material, you have the writers, but the couldnât bring them over into live.
I suspect it was directors and writers trying to bring their own touch or attempt to modernise, but failing terribly. Or just pure ego ala Netflix
Well admittedly my above comment is heavily biased because I really didn't appreciate any of the films that came out during the ten or so years that Snyder was heading the DC franchise. I thought James Gunn's Superman was okay but it's too early to tell if their course correction will be successful or not, especially since everyone seems to be getting over the superhero genre. I'm cautiously optimistic though!
Yeah while I didnât agree with everything Gunn did you could see the source material and it was a step in the right direction. Snyder was abysmal imo
The silver lining is that Man of Steel gave us that amazing scene where Clark just stood there and watched his foster father wait for a tornado to wipe him out. That was certainly a choice đ
Letâs not forget MARTHAAAA
Related :
Any line from Gal Godot delivered with the gravitas of a brick
Or anything to do with the flash
And CGI babies in microwaves
cyborg with RTX on
To be fair, Marvel Cartoons are some of the best Marvel media out there.
Earth's mightiest heroes was the best .. sad they discontinued after season 2
At least they got to end on a high note, unlike some shows.
I still loathe the fact that they discontinued it because of "cHilDrEN wOUlD nOT UnDErsTAnD bIGGeR OveR-aRchInG pLotS".
It was probably the best representation of Marvel universe in general up to this day, and the thing MCU craved to be until entire thing flopped very harshly after endgame.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I think technology/intelligence based villains are super boring.
I think I mostly agree with you but I love The Brain and Gorilla Grodd
Kang aside, I've watched MCU until Brave New World, and I'm not a fan of the "villains that appear in one movie, have lots of potential, but also dies in said movie". Feels like they're pruning whatever potential storylines that could have been.
Lets see, we had (villain spoilers until phase 5) Mandarin, Wen Wu, Ego, Ultron, Hela, Cassandra. I wanted to see more of them.
Ultron shouldâve been an entire slow build arc happening in the background like with thanos
Neat thing about Ultron is he could come back whenever they feel like it. Especially with AI/robots being a constant topic in the mainstream.
Due to me watching Loki after the Ant Man movie, I was super hyped for Kang. After finishing Ant Man and seeing the post credit scene I wasn't impressed, but seeing Kang in Loki restored my faith that he could have been great. Maybe they messed up with the release order of those 2
Ant-Man Quantummania was just poorly handled in general, I think Loki being Kang's introduction was fine, it helped set the stakes nice and early, but losing a fist fight to Ant Man on his very next appearance was a major (heh) misstep.
It's been said before but Kang should have killed someone in Ant-Man to set the stakes higher. I was honestly surprised at the end when no one died and they basically won with little consequence.
The post credits scene implies it was only a temporary victory though
EDIT: the scene of Scott walking down the street with an inner monologue, which invokes a sense of fear and foreboding
The post credits scene was the biggest part of the problem. It should have engendered a sense of fear and menace. Instead the biggest feelings after watching it were confusion and discomfort. This:
https://preview.redd.it/18kpglywzi9g1.jpeg?width=3000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=82e68832f976ee373668e45f01f621f9f205c90e
Is goofy, not menacing.
I hate this scene because I think it looks so stupid to have so many of them angled towards the camera.
Insane budget, terrible fx, boring story, Ant Man, and your BIG bad got killed by ants in it.
That was it for Kang. I donât care about how many versions there are or how he could have been recastâŠthat movie killed all of that characters credibility.
Majors was annoying as Kang, just as bad as Leto's Joker. Felt dumb to have him be such a big character from the beginning. Also, RDJ as Doom is an engineered flop to punish the fans who didn't accept the new phase or whatever they're calling the post-endgame crap.
I've never read the comics so I can't compare Major's to those. Seeing him in Ant Man and Loki made him an intriguing character for me. I do listen to the YouTuber Comics Explained to try get an understanding of the comic lore, but I don't think it does the comics justice without reading them myself. Could you explain why Major's was a bad casting for Kang
Not going to comment on the RDJ part of your comment for the same reason as to why I'm uninformed regarding Major's being Kang is a bad casting
I think RDJ and Evanâs are back to steady the ship, but I also think Doom was chosen because Time Runs Out is probably one of the easiest stories to adapt based on what the original plan was with time travel and the multiverse. Added benefit for them (and potentially us) is that they can pull in even more nostalgia bait than they were originally planning by adapting Battle World, and my guess is that weâll end up with better Avengers films then we would have with Kang.
He wasn't that bad, but if you've seen Majors in other roles. You quickly realize that he's not as good of an actor as he can seem. He does the same few things for every role, for example the meek mannerisms and voice, which he does very well.. But he can't change it up, it's identical whenever he does it in any movie or show.
The of acting you see of him in Loki, that's all he has, there is no range beyond that. And with different Kang versions you would need a big range.
They also introduced him in a tv show
That's what's cool about Kang. Each version doesn't need to be top tier. We were being shown the Kangs that weren't as good as the ones that would have been an Avengers level threat.
He still shouldn't have lost. It should have been a draw where Ant-Man sacrificed himself to beat Kang, then Cassie takes the mantle.
Bring him back in later film if you want but at least have that film seem to have stakes (in isolation).
Exactly! It's not like they had to beat Kang to escape the Quantum Realm.
Both Kang's and the Pym-Langs' motivations were to escape the QR. There are a lot of ways they could have made that happen without turning Kang into a jobber who got his ass kicked by the Ant-Fam.
It crazy how people forget Kang is an Avengers villain and Hank Pym is a founding member Avenger on par with the rest. Kang was facing them not only where he was weakest, but where Pym is at his peak. The Quantum Realm is Pym's playground while it is Kang's prison. The real fumble was making the MCU Ultron made my Tony instead of Pym and making Ant-Man seem like a secondary character in the Avengers' line-up. Then no one would've questioned the guys who literally hack the science behind size manipulation for beating a time-traveler in a realm powered by size where time is irrelevant and useless. It's a basic rock-paper-scissors situation
Ant-Man defeating Kang in the Quantum Realm of all places is not as abnormal as people seem to think it is
Show, don't tell. It doesn't matter what we say Hank supposedly is. Nothing in the movie hinted to him having a particular advantage over kang just because they were in the quantum realm. They were saved by a deus ex machina. If anything, according to the movie, the quantum realm is the ants at their peak.
I still think the whole Ant-Man thing can be salvaged. So yeah, he's stuck fighting an infinite number of his potential selves. His only way out is to kill as many of himself as he can and harvest the elements the bodies and clothes/tech are made of. He can probably hold off his other selves long enough to get his suit to fabricate some very basic lab and forge equipment.
Maybe like 20 years of him fighting and harvesting himself (dimensional time) he shows up in MCU again. Piercing through dimensions to get back to the MCU proper. Different actor now because he's aged so much fighting himself.
That's cowardly. Kang just needed better writing. He was still the best part of that movie. He could have been salvaged.
He was extremely well received in loki. Hype to fuck. Antmam may have been not so well received but his loki reception was so hype he was still well received overall.
Antman should have 100 percent lost in that movie. They were so scared to do any sort of risk
To be fair Majors as Kang was THE ONLY good thing in that awful film.
Marvel should have just doubled down and maybe made Majors donate money to KKK and knock up some mom & pop stores for publicity.
"We cast a villain as a villain! Now you can't swoon over him like you did with Hiddleston!"
Right? Itâs not like in Loki there werenât tons of Loki variants who werenât Hiddleston.
For real! They couldâve easily done a multiverse twist with a new actor. Keeps the story alive without the drama!
From what I recall of Quantumania, that version of Kang was supposed to be the worst: he'd been banished to the quantum realm by the Council of Kangs because he was the Kangiest.
I realise that this isn't necessarily an argument against recasting, but might have been one of the reasons they didn't.
But then Ant Man beat him with zero consequences. Nobody died, nobody got lost in the quantum realm, everything was fine, so the character was nothing but hype anyway.
There were rumors that majors had a clause in his contract that only he could portray any variants of Kang. If Marvel really agreed to that and it derailed everything Because it meant they couldnât recast him with out getting in a drawn out legal battle, thatâs fucking wack on their part and horrible foresight
IANAL but if Marvel fired him, which is their right to do, how or why would they need to still honor part of the contract?
I anal?
Aye, analÂ
*I Am Not A Lawyer
No seriously, that backfired tremendously. Iâm no lawyer obviously, but was there really no way they couldâve worked in some clause like âbtw if you screw up and go to jail all bets are offâ?
They would have spent months arbitrating such a clause given Majors didn't go to jail, and also would have been waiting to meet whatever constitutes breaking the clause actively.
And those rumors don't make even the tiniest bit of sense.
I don't believe for a second that Kevin Fiege or anyone else at Marvel/Disney would have agreed to that clause, and even if they had, there's no way it wouldn't have contained a "reputational damage" exclusion.
[deleted]
Not necessarily. That clause would only be a contract that Johnathan Majors had added. This doesnât apply to every character. Things can apply to one contract and not another. He probably just didnât have that in his contract.
Please correct Iâm if Iâm wrong, but IIRC a stipulation of Majorsâ contract was that only he could portray Kang on screen.
Which is funny bc of all the villains who could be played by different actors and have it work, Kang was THE guy. Having different variants of himself across timelines show up to fight the heroes is his whole deal.
Itâs also why itâs so funny that the end credits of Quantumania showed that EVERY SINGLE Kang, even the weird alien ones ALL look like Majors.
As much as I love The Weekly Planet, that was an unsubstantiated rumour they discussed once that they have never reiterated or followed up on in a positive manner since then.
Plus, I feel like Disney is smart enough to put some kind of stipulation that says "hey if you get fired for any reason, we can replace you"
That would be really really stupid if they went all in on Majors to have it in his contract that only he can play Kang forever.
A lot of early fancasts/rumors hinted at Colman Domingo replacing Majors as Kang (wouldâve been a good replacement). Why not bring him in to play the character, instead of the âDowney Jr. as Doom/bring back Steve Rogers for no reasonâ route?
I'd be okay with them doing this Doom cycle and then revisiting Kang. I love Kang, but they were trying to do too much after End Game. Too many epilogue stories to pass torches that didn't need their own releases. Too much time in between the gems that have worked well post-End Game.
I think it was in Majorâs contract
What do you mean by that?
It's rumoured that Majors had it in his contract that only he could play Kang variants.
The problem wasn't just Majors. Kang was an underwhelming villain. When he got beaten by Ant-Man, that ruined all his menace.
Especially a villain that is supposed to be multiversal, and thus would be quite easy to explain why he looks different.
I habe no source but some rumors suggest his contract was only he could play Kang in the movies for so many years
They already fucked it up with antman, gave them an easy way out.
my understanding is that majors had a clause in his contract that kang could not be played by anyone else
Idk if this is true but I read that on Majors' contract it said that he can be the only Kang actor for a few years even though he was fired the contract is still up
But idk if that is true
Cuz they put all their eggs in one basket by establishing him as every single variant of Kang. There was even a fish version of him that still looked like Jonathan Majors in the council of Kangs scene.
Despite there being some Loki variants that didn't even look like him. Now imagine, after all that, how hard it would be to have a whole other character claiming to be Kang.
Kang variants even have different appearances in the comics too, but MCU made the mistake of establishing JM as every single Kang variant. It was just cheaper and more logical to just move on.
My best guess would be that majors was contracted for X amount of movies and Disney would have had to pay him out the rest of his contract if they recast kang for whatever movies he had left
It's in his contract only he can play every variant of Kang
Is this some sort of "9/11 created the 50 shades of gray" correlation?
Oh Iâve never heard that one. Please elaborate
To water it down, 9/11 inspired my chemical romance (the band) which then inspired Stephanie Meyer to write the Twilight novels, which led to the creation of 50 shades of gray, which is essentially a fan fiction of Bella and Edward from twilight
And then there was a 50 shades movie starring Dakota Johnson that led ended up getting Ellen deGeneres cancelled after she exposed her for being a bad person
Ripple effect (if I'm not mistaken)
butterfly effect
Iâm kinda all for society having to bear the burden of creations like twilight and 50 shades, if it all made cancelling Ellen possible.
Domino effect
The butterfly effect describes the possibility of small actions on variables having large resulting effects at a later date in complex systems.
9/11... being the small variable and... 50 shades of grey being the significantly larger effect?
depressing
Thereâs also the one where Pearl Harbor led to the existence of hentai
Aww damn. Bin Ladeen created Twilight
Bin Laden played the long game to cancel Ellen
Does his evil know no limits?
I thought Stephanie Meyer was obsessed with Muse? She put them in, like, every dedication
Gerard Way personally witnessed 9/11 which inspired him to create My Chemical Romance. MCR inspired Stephenie Meyer to write Twilight. 50 Shades of Grey started as a fanfiction of Twilight which evolved into its own thing.
Assuming you're not being sarcastic (it's been referenced quite a lot), 9/11 inspired the founding of My Chemical Romance, which was a major influence on Twilight, which 50 Shades started as a fanfic of.
Nope genuine question! Thanks for the explanation, hadnât heard that before
If youâre interested their song Skylines and Turnstiles (the first song they wrote I believe) is about 9/11
I might be getting some of the details wrong, but essentially the lead singer of My Chemical Romance was so shaken by 9/11 that he gave up his 9-5 to pursue music. In turn, this woman wrote some saucy fan-fiction stuff based off of MCR/her adoration for them. Last step, the author of 50 Shades was inspired by said fanfic to write it.
No this is a lot more direct
I didn't see an answer. You also could be using sarcasm but, yes.
Johnathan Majors got arrested for domestic assault. He was charged, thus fired by Marvel. Marvel didn't want to recast Kang. So instead they went with Doom. This was a wrench in the plan, so they brought RDJ back. Fans speculated(and the loud wanted) that Evans would come back. The loud didn't like Mackie as Captain America. Marvel, bringing RDJ back, also decided to bring Evans back.
Majors got fired. They didnt recast kang. We got Doom.
We'd still have Doom one way or another when we knew they were making Fantastic Four and Secret Wars. Whether they'd still cast RDJ for that role is up for debate tho.
Robert Beltranâs inability to act led to President Obama.
I wanna hear this one lol
Beltran was an average actor playing a boring badly written character who didn't present a good foil for the Captain of the Federation Starship Voyager. Seven of Nine was created, originally ostensibly as eye candy but Jeri Ryan's acting chops made her more than the sum of her, ahem, parts and she became very popular and probably saved the show. Her ex husband Jack ran for an open Senate seat but the records of his divorce from Jeri were unsealed and were very embarrassing to him and he dropped out essentially handing the seat to Obama in 2004.
Star Trek: Voyager. Â Robert Beltran was picked as the shipâs commander, but he has no respect for science fiction and all of the depth of a thin crust pizza. Â So he was phoning it in to an incredible degree. Â Mulgrew was better, but was getting bipolar direction - literally, the way she was written inspired theories about her mental health. Â Regardless, most of the first two seasons were heavily based on Chakotay, Beltranâs character. Â He utterly failed to become interesting, even when they gave him ridiculously over the top storylines like âmy ex was a Cardassian spy that betrayed my ship and is raising my baby with the nomadic savages of Delta Quadrant.â
But Voyager was the flagship of the United Paramount Network (UPN) and was never going to be allowed to fail after two lackluster seasons, so they brought on an actress with prodigious assets, known at first as â36 of D.â Â Thing is, it turns out she could act - in fact, Iâd put her in my top ten actors in all of Trek. Â So she did really well (60% viewership bump), a bit part character was expanded, and most importantly, she moved from Chicago to Hollywood â and got a divorce in the process. Â The papers were sealed, as was fairly standard at the time. Â Her ex-husband Jack Ryan was an investment banker.
In 2004, her ex ran for Senator of Illinois  - against a relatively unknown Barack Obama.  And given the money involved (see: investment banker) it was shaping up to be a brutal run for Obama⊠right up until their divorce papers leaked, and it turned out that it was alleged that Jeri was forced to go to sex clubs and do kinky shit for (iirc) him and his coworkers or clients.
So, yeah, the family manâs budding political career crashed and burned, Obama was elected, and then Obama was selected to give the rebuttal against the 2008 Bush State of the Union and absolutely nailed it, which launched him into political superstardom and led to him winning the election.
I would say it was Obamaâs keynote address at the 2004 DNC that catapulted him into âthis guy could be Presidentâ discussions.
Obama does not become president without winning the Senate seat in 2004.
Well yes, but Ryan was constantly behind in the polls from the get go. While it might have been a closer race with Ryan still in, Obama would have been the overwhelming favorite. The DNC speech put him on the radar of the nation.
That also gives us Biden (obviously as Obama's VP) but also Trump, since many believe that Obama's heckling of Trump at the White House correspondents dinner was what pushed him to run in 2016. Plus the whole racist reaction against Obama helping propel the Trump campaign.
The Illinois Republican party had an idea of what was on the horizon. So much so that they tried to get Mike Ditka to replace Ryan to run against Obama. He declined, Alan Keyes took the spot, and the rest is history.
No this is a 9/11 got Elon show cancelled
Jeri Ryan (Star Trek Seven of Nine) set up the last 6 presidencies (Obama -> Trump)
Depending on how you count that's either three, four, or five presidencies.
By that logic, The assassination of arch duke Franz Ferdinand caused 50 shades of gray...
MF Gavrillo Princip just fucked everything up for everyone. Couldn't just keep eating his sandwich.
This wouldn't happen if the producers fking recasted Jonathan
What are you guys talking about. They were ALWAYS going to bring the old characters back for secret wars. Why are twitters completely moronic takes having so much influence
It's not moronic at all. None of this was telegraphed, ever.
Like why did they give them such a no-doubt-about-it sendoff? Why was it never talked about on these subs before Downey was announced as Doom?
Maybe people invested in the actual comics knew about it. But 99% of the MCU viewerbase is pretty casual and evidently hadn't a single clue - why would they?
What else were they going to do with secret wars? Use a bunch of faceless multiverse variants that no one has any prior attachment to?
I believe Endgame was a sincere attempt at saying goodbye to Chris Evans and RDJ from the MCU and the only reason they, as well as the Russos, are returning is because the latest phases of the MCU have been borderline disastrous and none of their careers have greatly panned out outside the MCU. I donât think this was AT ALL the plan a few years ago.
Didnât RDJ win an Oscar for Oppenheimer? Sounds like a total failure.Â
chris evans acting career hasnât panned out outside the mcu?
Yeah idk about that one. Knives out, that one apple show, some movies I think. He's doing alright
Looking at the movies heâs been in the past 5 years⊠yeah Iâd say itâs not ideal.
i mean i thought knives out was a generally liked movie, i personally like grey man, red one wasnât bad from what i remember just a funny christmas movie, wasnât he buzz lightyear? iâm sure heâs been in others but just off the top of my head thatâs what i can remember. itâs not like heâs winning oscarâs but was steven rodgers?
And they would have still tried secret wars anyway, it just so happens to be during a shitty time during the mcu so everyone is immediately using that as ammo for their arguments
The subject of the post is RDJ and Evans though lol
How does that change anything about my point
Proof?
The MCUs and Kevin feiges philosophy has always been about bringing these characters together and having cool crossover events. Iâm pretty sure Kevin feige was the one trying to get crossovers to happen as far back as 2002 Spider-Man with the X-men. Of course he would want to finally bring all this together if he has the golden opportunity to. It would be his personal masterpiece. And for some reason fans suddenly have a problem with this as if they werenât creaming their pants at the previous 4 avengers movies even though this is the same fucking thing just taken to the ultimate level
It's conjecture but the MCU has tanked pretty heavily since Endgame. Nobody cares about any of the new characters that were supposed to take over once the original cast stepped aside. Films like Shang Chi, The Marvels and The Eternals all failed financially and critically so from a business standpoint it makes total sense that Disney would bring back the actors that people were actually willing to pay to see in theatres.
Did shang chi fail? I thought it did well
shang chi went hard
It grossed ~$432m USD, unfortunately making it one of the lower grossing MCU films. Which is too bad, I thought it was plenty enjoyable and I really liked the inspiration they drew from older kung fu movies.
To be fair you could argue that the pandemic was the main reason it didn't do well compared to other films in the franchise, but to me it came across as a pretty soulless attempt to try and profit off of the Chinese market. But because it got caught up with all the 'politics' thanks to the alt-right idiots running around calling all the Disney products 'woke', there was a bunch of pushback from marvel fans and the actors who starred in the film to try and convince everyone that the film was immensely successful. But a 400 million box office return is definitely towards the lower end of what most of the more popular films within the franchise have achieved.
Shang-Chi was fine, but I don't see anyone begging for him to pop up in other things.
They couldnt because Jonathan's contract stipulated he could be the ONLY one cast as Kang. They couldnt recast or have different variants of him because they would be contractually liable
I really wanted a screen adaptation of only myself left to conquer and now we will probobly never get it.
Quantumania fucked up Kang. That's like Guardians of the Galaxy defeating Thanos
Not to mention a small addition that in Loki, 2 Kang variants die. So 2 products, 3 Kang variantsâ death (countless times, even) and 0 wins. How do you build up an Avengers level threat with these numbers?
When did 2 kang variants die in Loki? I only know He who remains died
Didn't the past self die repeatedly trying to fix the device?
Oh I guess I didn't count Victor Timely since he lived at the end of it, also I consider it less of a dying thing and more of a "part of the process"
Yeah Victor Timely spaghettified a gazillion times too.
Idk I think the villain being humbled originally to come back stronger is a common enough trope that it could have been pulled off.
I think the larger problem is that they never took the foot off the gas so to speak.
They needed a few movies with lower stakes that explored the world without tony stark and captain america. They
Kang was still being set up as a big bad. He should have been positioned as an anti hero trying to fill the vacuum of a world in need of heroes
Yeah... I am one of the people that still wanted Kang Dynasty but I cannot deny how badly Quantumania ruined the characters chances of being an appealing Avengers villain.
It's really hard to convince people that Kang is a threat when he has been defeated twice already in the MCU by Loki and Ant-Man and those two versions were stronger/smarter ones than bog standard Kangs.
Hot take, but they should've just killed off Ant-Man in Quantumania. He rescues Janet and both Hope and his daughter are coming into their own as heros, Ant-Man isn't needed anymore. Turn the silly movie dark at the end, and cement Kang as a threat by killing off Ant-Man. The avengers/MCU is already too bloated anyways, it would've been a perfect way to remove a character to both escalate Hope and Cassandra and give Kang the boost he needed. The other route would've been making MODOK the main villain and Kang just the mastermind, but MODOK just doesn't work, trying to be faithful to the comic design he looks awful, despite his smaller part in the movie a lot of the bad press the movie got was because MODOK looked so ridiculous (because he does, in every media).
This comparison only works if you ignore how scott managed to beat kang. Kang was exiled to the quantum realm without most of his technology. He was intentionally heavily nerfed from the start. Then his suit was heavily damaged from his fight with scott, cassie, hope, hank, and the ants. Without his suit he's just a really smart guy. Scott beat one heavily nerfed kang. One out of a dynasty of kangs who when working together would've likely beaten the avengers in kang dynasty.
Yea, but the screenwriter for Quantumania would be the screenwriter for Kang Dynasty⊠so maybe it a good thing that film got scrapped. đ
I mean that and cancer taking away Chadwick Boseman :(
Looks like Kang changed the actual time line.
*and Chadwick didnât die
True but might result in a better movie/s than them concluding the multiverse saga with Avengers: Kang Vs. Antman 2
I repeat, this is not a sign to assault your girlfriend.
There's this thing called recast
If you can do it to rhodey you can do it to kang.
John punching air rn:
https://i.redd.it/6kfaocue7i9g1.gif
Time traveller assaults his girlfriend and this is the timeline
He was always coming back. It was always the plan regardless. Maybe in a different way, but no chance he never returned.
Who? There are 2 people.
Steve, thereâs no reason he wasnât gonna return in Secret Wars when the comic did the same thing
RDJ as Doom is the only one of the two that actually feels desperate
Both.
Ok I'm going to say this for all the guys saying he was found not guilty or he was acquitted, etc. He was found guilty of reckless assault and harassment. He was not sentenced to any jail time but some domestic violence program and probation. That does not change the fact he was CONVICTED. If he was actually found innocent, then you'd still be getting your Kang movies.
Thereâs also an audio of him admitting to assaulting his ex. âI agressed youâ âyou strangled meâ âyeahâ
Didnât she assault him as well? Thereâs like a video of him running away from her while she hawked him like a vulture
What does "hawked him" mean to you?
Not the woman who he admitted to strangling on audio. âI agressed you.â âYou strangled me!â âYeah.â
Well he didn't though
Only if you ignore the audio where he admits to assaulting his ex. âI agressed you.â âYou strangled me!â âYeah.â
Yeah, pretty sure this was another Johnny Depp situation where at first everyone believes that the guy is the asshole, but it eventually comes out that the lady is the abusive jerk
Okay letâs take that at face value and ignore the convictions - so what about the other lady? And the other lady? And the other ladies, and the coworkers, etc.
*defended himself from her scratching and attacking him by shoving her and running away from her for 7 blocks
He admitted to strangling her:
https://preview.redd.it/d6xmorzjgj9g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=577d2d009059ff80b906bd18ef312ff750451553
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/mar/18/jonathan-majors-assault-audio-recording
Thereâs audio of him admitting to strangling his girlfriend. âI agressed you.â âYou strangled me!â âYeah.â
Snatching your property back from someone that took it is hardly assault.
I mean, he was found guilty. Its a charge, itd nearly the lowest level of assault, but he was still found guilty.
Its a defined legal term. Whether or not the assault was justified/defense was what was up for debate.
No but strangulation is.
A separate case that wasnât prosecuted and only brought up before a new release of his movie. Odd circumstances to say the least.
That's quite a generous way to frame it; he's admitting to battery against the very same woman in a previous incident. In his televised interviews he claims to have never raised a hand to his partners, in private discussion he admits to doing so and more, and in the pre-trial statements multiple former partners of his corroborated physically abusive behavior.
The pattern of behavior's quite clear and there's very little room for benefit of the doubt.
Disney has former CIA working for them. They knew that that audio existed. I wouldnât be surprised if they dropped him because they found more stuff that hasnât come out yet.
It's all part of Dr Strange's plan
Sounds like another episode of Marvel What IfâŠ.
Twitter with the worst most random takes:
Kang's story was gonna be ass from the beginning. Quantumania was just a pain to watch. I am glad that we are going to Doom. I am not gonna hate on anything until I actually see what it has to offer.
Be it Steve Rogers as Cap again or some other plot, I am expecting something nice. If it happens to suck then so be it.
Hard agree. I donât think that character or actors would be the way to go. The villain from guardians 3 was way more interesting in my personal opinion
She assaulted him. All he did was run away.
Thereâs a recording of Majorâs admitting to assaulting and other girlfriend. Google âI aggressed youâ
Did you miss the part where he tries to push her into the car?
Did that happen unprovoked? Or as a way of getting her tf off him when she was attacking him?
He strangled her. He admitted it himself:
https://preview.redd.it/wx6bdyt2hj9g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa5413332d45740684531bde22f25689bdc23326
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/mar/18/jonathan-majors-assault-audio-recording
This wouldnât have happened if marvel didnât put all of their eggs in the Jonathan majors basket
did he assault her?
Yes, he did. He even admitted it:
https://preview.redd.it/whx8zm14ij9g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=0ac2399e34ad45e2518831f40b024dd19829b073
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/mar/18/jonathan-majors-assault-audio-recording
Btw Jonathan didn't assault shit. He caused a bruise to her by trying to GET AWAY from her. It's officially documented. And has to suffer because a crazy bitch.
He himself admitted to strangling her:
https://preview.redd.it/uli0qrtchj9g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=da83564d243f0cd2c861373e7ee97c9a1ed5ef37
Source: https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2025/mar/18/jonathan-majors-assault-audio-recording
They were already discussing moving away from Kang internally before the entire situation. This was happening no matter what. RDJ signed on for this WAY before the reveal of him playing Doom. This was a slightly premeditated decision and the Russoâs have stated they wouldnât have returned if there wasnât an actually interesting story to tell. Itâs not a last minute desperate attempt to âreviveâ the MCU by bringing back familiar faces. But the movie really could go either way and if it flops then it was a nostalgia bait cash grab. But if it doesnâtâŠ
Yes it would. There is no possible future where Chris and RDJ didn't return. Infact I suspect they were going to return before 2030 anyway.
I also suspect that RDJ playing Doom will have been something at least discussed as a possible future plan before the whole Kang shit went down. There is now way that they just contacted RDJ and quickly wrote up a Dr Doom story for him in a matter of months. This was most likely always the back-up plan if Kang didn't work out.
Multiverse of madness
It wouldn't have happened like this, but multiverse saga was always going to be about nostalgia. Or did you guys think Disney was going to just sit on properties like the Fox X-Men and Blade when they knew all they had to do was say they came from another universe?
Is a Canon Event
The problem for me is that there is no buildup for doomsday - it will be another movie - for infinity war and endgame there was 10 year buildup
I mean⊠this isnât a lie.
Steve rogers was always going to come back, regardless of who doom was played by. Secret wars is marvels largest multiversal event it legitimately would not make sense for them to leave out one of their most popular heroes
The way it was going, I think it might have.
Can't say that getting beat by fucking ant man set him up as an avengers level threat
Disney and marvel basically erasing everything they did in marvel to get it to make it special and awesome movies