The worst part is... I kind of like Valencina, and not even in a gooner way, she is suppose to be a representation of one of the worst types of abuse possible, physical abuse, still, that fits so perfectly in her character and the Thumb that I can't even look at her and think "She sucks", she is your average Thumb higher up.
Also, she is a terrible person, that monologue about how people should not be to happy around her with "the cake" and letting her apprentice go 1v1 against Verg, shows that she is crazy, but that feels way more real to me than the good guys we usually find around the city, not sure if it's the result of the seed of light, but Kali's story show how even the good guys will still stab you in the back in the first chance, what don't really happen much with us.
Roland says in Ruina that the worst types of people are the ones who don't seem insane at first glance. Valencina and Matthias might be the least bad among the Nursefatahers.
Index is probably the worse one, he at first glance seems to be the best, but Ryoshu sees him with a anger that she doesn’t do with none of the other nursefathers.
With Valencina she was just mocking her or making fun of her, with Pinky she was irritated at her presence, but with Index she was visibly really furious.
Also from what we know, Ryoshu tried to burn Index alive, which is the most painful torture and death of all.
yeah at least she could still maintain her sharp retorts with valentina and dihui star, but seeing index just makes her see red instantly despite having a nicer flashback. index msut have done something so horrible to warrant the brunign from yoshihide/ryoshu
on that note what the fk did lei heng do that pissed off her to the same level as index father
This is just complete headcannon, supposition and deduction, but my take on that is bc since Ryoshu’s memories are severed and made up a mess, i believe that Ryoshu did not remember at all of what happened in the Spiderhouse, and seeing Lei Heng who was one of the passing tutors (probably hired by Valencina), seeing him made her remember about the Spiderhouse and the mistreat she suffered there.
When Dante triggers key words, she is able to put parts of her memories together, not only that but also with visual clues like the spiral thing the Ring nursefather used, so maybe Lei Heng triggered all her trauma back since she didn’t remember much, and that sensation was just overwhelming for her.
that monologue about how people should not be to happy around her with "the cake"
I think this moment also exposes her (and the Thumb's) hypocrisy.
Valencina remembers this moment as her having given Ryoushu a bit of valuable advice. That she did Ryoushu a favor. Or she simply wants to be seen that way.
"Remember what I told you? 'Smiling like an idiot in such filth makes me want to smash that cake to the floor. So don't you dare let on even a hint of craving for that cake while I'm looking, no matter how sweet and delicious it might be.'" Essentially, "If you want something, take it without me finding out."
Then Ryoushu flashes back to the actual moment and we see that her words were not only very different, but downright ugly and cruel to match her actions. She sounds drunk, either literally or just on power.
"What did I say Ticket? What did I say? If you're gonna start trouble, you better not show it on your face! Else I'll catch on! Stop fucking around and tell me straight!" Followed by, presumably, a string of violent threats. In short, "I know everything you're thinking, so don't try to oppose me," conveniently without actually explaining anything.
Valencina has revised this history to be more flattering to her, while Ryoushu has buried it.
The title of this node is apt; Textbook. People aren't naturally inclined to see themselves as in the wrong, least of all abusers. So often times an abusive parent will try to put a positive spin on their words and actions, both to excuse themselves from wrongdoing and maintain moral superiority. "Wipe that look off your face" is also very common abusive rhetoric.
It's mostly because she's a part of the Thumb, but the contrast is important.
Hope she doesn’t get off screened by Verg and we get to put her in the ground ourselves. We only learn from the best when it comes to dealing with the thumb
A somewhat better translation of the title would be "Do you have any complaints about your Master?". The last two really don't make any sense in response to the given title.
Ren’s poor master, but damn, I wonder what she did to Ryoshu that warranted Ryoshu absolutely destroying her. Kinda nice to see how the more normal of the Nursefathers are incredibly abusive and the weirder and more “quirky” ones are actually pretty kind. The Ring Nursefather teaching Ryoshu his art, the Index Nursefather actually acting somewhat like a dad for her. (This also kinda confirms that Ryoshu at full strength is probably near star of the city level if not at it. She was able to dominate one of the ten blades of the pinky pretty easily from what it seems.)
while i agree that ryoshu and ring had the best relationship (clearly her artisitc tendecies and sensibilities came from him), i think she had a major fallout with index nursefather given that we see him having a burnt face right before we get the flashback of him saying that death by fire is the worst. yoshihide was most likely goaded on by pinky/dihui star to cut the tongue as part of the process for her to transform into "a blade that cuts through all" (the asura mentioned by kong qiu at end of canto 8?)
i really like the idea that each nursefather represents different types of parental abuse liek thumb being authoritative abuse, middle being bear-style overprotection etc.
I would really like if Ryoshu ends up representing how the real life term “cycle of abuse” can be ended by the abused child themselves. I’m pretty sure my professor once said that abused children might end up becoming abusers themselves. So I’d like to find out that Ryoshu actually ended up being a great parent to her daughter, which ends up being what drives her to turn on the house or spiders.
100%. given that KJH mentioned how his mother was abusive in an interview, i imagined it must have been cathartic for him to write out yoshihide breaking out from the cycle of abuse by becoming ryoshu
When I looked at the Pinky master, my first thought was that she was Ryoshus mother and she had done something to Ryoshus daughter. Whatever it was, it only got her tongue cut out by the unsheathed blade instead of getting killed on the spot.
Ten blades of the Pinky? Did you confuse that with the ten blades of the east? The Pinky should have 108 stars, as it seems to be based on the 108 outlaws of Water Margin.
From what we can infer from Kong Qiu and Lei Heng, the ten blades of the east all have relations with the pinky one way or another. The pinky Nursefather also sorta add onto it, since we are basically already told that she is one of the ten blades by reading Ren’s passives and the things he says during the fight about how his blade is an imitation of the real thing and all.
(Jokes aside, he and Lucio are my fav characters for this part of canto. I lwk wish best for them, hope Ryoshu wouldn’t kill them, Lucio would get a proper master who respects his borders and Ren to become one of 108 heroes in future. Ah, and Kira is adorkable, I like her too.
It literally would have been spoilers when the trailer came out if they did any named ID. Plus they probably want some hype to build to better incentivize pulling. Just wait a bit.
No, that there are very specific people involved. If we got, let's say, Middle and Ring apprentice the people would knlw that the first part is not only index or ring going to happen but also the middle, considering they would have detailed kits that mirror the kits of the enemy you would also be spoiled of there being those fights and their mechanics.
Imagine getting Thumb capo id for the week of canto 8 part 3. Everyone would go in knowing that we fight Lei Heng
Kits, the existence of the Apprentice characters considering they weren't in the trailer, their general look and fighting style, probably more. Like imagine if we got the announcement of two of the Bloodfiend IDs in the trailer for Don's Canto. People would wonder wtf PM was thinking. I'm pretty sure none of the cantos have opened with a named character ID because of this.
??? Smee and Josephine were mini bosses in part 1 of their respective cantos, and you literally have a 1v1 against Camille with Don. Part of the atmosphere of the raid in canto 7 is seeing what happens to Camille. Just grunts?
But they were ultimately not important in the later Part and for grunts, I mostly meant Smee.
The Apprentice clearly has more stuff to do in the story and is being built up, KJH already said he will give someone an ID if that were the last time we see that character. This is consistent with the example you gave.
And like I said, they are pretty minor characters in the Canto tbh when compared to the Apprentice. Are you really going to say straight to my face that the Apprentice has the same vibe as those examples?
No it's not. The examples you gave were clearly just minor characters in their Cantos while the Apprentice seems to be set up to be much more important when compared to them. It's just a different way of using and writing characters.
Well, we are probably not getting lcd as a canto IDs, maybe in intervalo, walpurg, or during outis's canto, and the nerdman is definitely the checkup rerun ID, so we can easily get 10 more seasonal IDs given how many we got last season.
And, like, it would be very weird if we got named, important index members before we even got index grunts, thumbsault at least came with a grunt but if they plan to release IDs in nursefather + apprentice format then that would be impossible.
Also, they couldn't spoil the designs.
So, unlike in the last season, i do approve of this particular faceless nobodies selection.
Ages ago they said that Walpurgis would be used to release characters related to Distortion Detective as well so I personally would not expect Ezra and/or Moses to be regular seasonals.
I have a feeling that if they do a DD walp, itd be an Ezra/Moses double banner, considering theyre the iconic duo
Vespa can get a double banner with Yuria or smth
I agree that this banner is ok id choice, but I don’t think that we really need grunts of faction before getting named ones. Especially not in the three first parts of the canto
We do because they cant be released after the named characters.
Game has powercreep, you cant release capo this season and a soldato next one, because then the random thumb grunt ends up being stronger than the big important thumb ID. ID lore strength doesnt progress lineary but it does progress nonetheless, we arent getting section 5 association fixers anymore, or level 2 agents, and we wouldnt be getting a student after maestro either.
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https://preview.redd.it/11gqzpzltlag1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=bd37953505c446f3bc41c06f17d7f7937d78d4eb
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I win
I've played scissors.
https://preview.redd.it/aijre8jucmag1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f58ff417d9ccbaaa17807ad6478757c4d264313f
Yesod stop eating the pixels
LMAO
Bro thought outside the box
There are two types of people:
People who want to be Valencina's apprentice
People who don't
The worst part is... I kind of like Valencina, and not even in a gooner way, she is suppose to be a representation of one of the worst types of abuse possible, physical abuse, still, that fits so perfectly in her character and the Thumb that I can't even look at her and think "She sucks", she is your average Thumb higher up.
Also, she is a terrible person, that monologue about how people should not be to happy around her with "the cake" and letting her apprentice go 1v1 against Verg, shows that she is crazy, but that feels way more real to me than the good guys we usually find around the city, not sure if it's the result of the seed of light, but Kali's story show how even the good guys will still stab you in the back in the first chance, what don't really happen much with us.
Roland says in Ruina that the worst types of people are the ones who don't seem insane at first glance. Valencina and Matthias might be the least bad among the Nursefatahers.
Index is probably the worse one, he at first glance seems to be the best, but Ryoshu sees him with a anger that she doesn’t do with none of the other nursefathers.
With Valencina she was just mocking her or making fun of her, with Pinky she was irritated at her presence, but with Index she was visibly really furious.
Also from what we know, Ryoshu tried to burn Index alive, which is the most painful torture and death of all.
yeah at least she could still maintain her sharp retorts with valentina and dihui star, but seeing index just makes her see red instantly despite having a nicer flashback. index msut have done something so horrible to warrant the brunign from yoshihide/ryoshu
on that note what the fk did lei heng do that pissed off her to the same level as index father
This is just complete headcannon, supposition and deduction, but my take on that is bc since Ryoshu’s memories are severed and made up a mess, i believe that Ryoshu did not remember at all of what happened in the Spiderhouse, and seeing Lei Heng who was one of the passing tutors (probably hired by Valencina), seeing him made her remember about the Spiderhouse and the mistreat she suffered there.
When Dante triggers key words, she is able to put parts of her memories together, not only that but also with visual clues like the spiral thing the Ring nursefather used, so maybe Lei Heng triggered all her trauma back since she didn’t remember much, and that sensation was just overwhelming for her.
I think this moment also exposes her (and the Thumb's) hypocrisy.
Valencina remembers this moment as her having given Ryoushu a bit of valuable advice. That she did Ryoushu a favor. Or she simply wants to be seen that way.
"Remember what I told you? 'Smiling like an idiot in such filth makes me want to smash that cake to the floor. So don't you dare let on even a hint of craving for that cake while I'm looking, no matter how sweet and delicious it might be.'" Essentially, "If you want something, take it without me finding out."
Then Ryoushu flashes back to the actual moment and we see that her words were not only very different, but downright ugly and cruel to match her actions. She sounds drunk, either literally or just on power.
"What did I say Ticket? What did I say? If you're gonna start trouble, you better not show it on your face! Else I'll catch on! Stop fucking around and tell me straight!" Followed by, presumably, a string of violent threats. In short, "I know everything you're thinking, so don't try to oppose me," conveniently without actually explaining anything.
Valencina has revised this history to be more flattering to her, while Ryoushu has buried it.
The title of this node is apt; Textbook. People aren't naturally inclined to see themselves as in the wrong, least of all abusers. So often times an abusive parent will try to put a positive spin on their words and actions, both to excuse themselves from wrongdoing and maintain moral superiority. "Wipe that look off your face" is also very common abusive rhetoric.
It's mostly because she's a part of the Thumb, but the contrast is important.
Hope she doesn’t get off screened by Verg and we get to put her in the ground ourselves. We only learn from the best when it comes to dealing with the thumb
https://preview.redd.it/1b1wqqo4inag1.png?width=1319&format=png&auto=webp&s=ddd32fa50528a90cc39136052138a82e3fa15cd5
I hope she gets On Screened by the Red Gaze. I want to see how badly she'll be thrashed once Charon isn't in any more danger.
Someone notice how Valencina gives off a vibe similar to Elle Driver from Kill Bill
With them discussing the possibility of Lucio betraying and killing her instead
Bonus points if she begs for her life, only for Verg to destroy her so brutally it'd make the Ring jealous.
Praise be our Lord, Kong Qiu!
PMOON PLEASE MAKE ME THE INDEX APPRENTICE EVEN IF I DIE IN THE CANTO
Thank you u/Wide-Violinist-2278 for the request
Ah damn Lucio that just sucks
Rip bookmark
https://preview.redd.it/p02gch9u1nag1.jpeg?width=695&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=43b92368d10ba1c1526e651920021df4ed1fa49b
A somewhat better translation of the title would be "Do you have any complaints about your Master?". The last two really don't make any sense in response to the given title.
hmm yeah I suppose I could've worded that better.
You get a
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You guys are the wealthy in t corp
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Ren’s poor master, but damn, I wonder what she did to Ryoshu that warranted Ryoshu absolutely destroying her. Kinda nice to see how the more normal of the Nursefathers are incredibly abusive and the weirder and more “quirky” ones are actually pretty kind. The Ring Nursefather teaching Ryoshu his art, the Index Nursefather actually acting somewhat like a dad for her. (This also kinda confirms that Ryoshu at full strength is probably near star of the city level if not at it. She was able to dominate one of the ten blades of the pinky pretty easily from what it seems.)
while i agree that ryoshu and ring had the best relationship (clearly her artisitc tendecies and sensibilities came from him), i think she had a major fallout with index nursefather given that we see him having a burnt face right before we get the flashback of him saying that death by fire is the worst. yoshihide was most likely goaded on by pinky/dihui star to cut the tongue as part of the process for her to transform into "a blade that cuts through all" (the asura mentioned by kong qiu at end of canto 8?)
i really like the idea that each nursefather represents different types of parental abuse liek thumb being authoritative abuse, middle being bear-style overprotection etc.
I would really like if Ryoshu ends up representing how the real life term “cycle of abuse” can be ended by the abused child themselves. I’m pretty sure my professor once said that abused children might end up becoming abusers themselves. So I’d like to find out that Ryoshu actually ended up being a great parent to her daughter, which ends up being what drives her to turn on the house or spiders.
100%. given that KJH mentioned how his mother was abusive in an interview, i imagined it must have been cathartic for him to write out yoshihide breaking out from the cycle of abuse by becoming ryoshu
When I looked at the Pinky master, my first thought was that she was Ryoshus mother and she had done something to Ryoshus daughter. Whatever it was, it only got her tongue cut out by the unsheathed blade instead of getting killed on the spot.
Ten blades of the Pinky? Did you confuse that with the ten blades of the east? The Pinky should have 108 stars, as it seems to be based on the 108 outlaws of Water Margin.
From what we can infer from Kong Qiu and Lei Heng, the ten blades of the east all have relations with the pinky one way or another. The pinky Nursefather also sorta add onto it, since we are basically already told that she is one of the ten blades by reading Ren’s passives and the things he says during the fight about how his blade is an imitation of the real thing and all.
REN REN I LOVE REN RAHHHHHHHH
(Jokes aside, he and Lucio are my fav characters for this part of canto. I lwk wish best for them, hope Ryoshu wouldn’t kill them, Lucio would get a proper master who respects his borders and Ren to become one of 108 heroes in future. Ah, and Kira is adorkable, I like her too.
I want ids of almost everyone in this part, but they still released unnamed ones…
The season just started and this was only part one so there could have been spoilers if someone uptied the id before playing the canto
It literally would have been spoilers when the trailer came out if they did any named ID. Plus they probably want some hype to build to better incentivize pulling. Just wait a bit.
Genuinely curious, what spoilers? That the fingers are involved?
No, that there are very specific people involved. If we got, let's say, Middle and Ring apprentice the people would knlw that the first part is not only index or ring going to happen but also the middle, considering they would have detailed kits that mirror the kits of the enemy you would also be spoiled of there being those fights and their mechanics.
Imagine getting Thumb capo id for the week of canto 8 part 3. Everyone would go in knowing that we fight Lei Heng
Kits, the existence of the Apprentice characters considering they weren't in the trailer, their general look and fighting style, probably more. Like imagine if we got the announcement of two of the Bloodfiend IDs in the trailer for Don's Canto. People would wonder wtf PM was thinking. I'm pretty sure none of the cantos have opened with a named character ID because of this.
Niko, Smee, Pilot, Camille and Paula. (They're not really spoilery characters though.)
They spoil the characters of course, isn't that obvious? They usually showed a named character first in the story before making them into IDs.
Season 3 started with First Mate Gregor, based off Smee.
Season 4 started with Chief Butler Outis, based off Josephine.
Season 5 started with Cinq Meursault, based off Camille.
All those are pretty minor characters in their Cantos, some are even just grunts to be honest.
The Apprentice are clearly someone you need to build some hype for, just releasing them as Season Launch is not really a way to do that.
??? Smee and Josephine were mini bosses in part 1 of their respective cantos, and you literally have a 1v1 against Camille with Don. Part of the atmosphere of the raid in canto 7 is seeing what happens to Camille. Just grunts?
We fought three of the apprentices already.
But they were ultimately not important in the later Part and for grunts, I mostly meant Smee.
The Apprentice clearly has more stuff to do in the story and is being built up, KJH already said he will give someone an ID if that were the last time we see that character. This is consistent with the example you gave.
And like I said, they are pretty minor characters in the Canto tbh when compared to the Apprentice. Are you really going to say straight to my face that the Apprentice has the same vibe as those examples?
I'd say the apprentices dont have the same vibe but thats because PM has improved their writing quality lmao
No it's not. The examples you gave were clearly just minor characters in their Cantos while the Apprentice seems to be set up to be much more important when compared to them. It's just a different way of using and writing characters.
Well, we are probably not getting lcd as a canto IDs, maybe in intervalo, walpurg, or during outis's canto, and the nerdman is definitely the checkup rerun ID, so we can easily get 10 more seasonal IDs given how many we got last season.
And, like, it would be very weird if we got named, important index members before we even got index grunts, thumbsault at least came with a grunt but if they plan to release IDs in nursefather + apprentice format then that would be impossible.
Also, they couldn't spoil the designs.
So, unlike in the last season, i do approve of this particular faceless nobodies selection.
Ages ago they said that Walpurgis would be used to release characters related to Distortion Detective as well so I personally would not expect Ezra and/or Moses to be regular seasonals.
Now that they've been revealed please let next walp be Vespa Meursault and Outis Moses, I beg you.
I have a feeling that if they do a DD walp, itd be an Ezra/Moses double banner, considering theyre the iconic duo
Vespa can get a double banner with Yuria or smth
Out of everyone lcd is the lamest option till now honestly
Pretty sure we’re getting both the Nursefathers and their apprentices as IDs + Ryoshu’s bad end
Given the amount of seasonal IDs released the previous season, yeah, we are getting all of them.
I agree that this banner is ok id choice, but I don’t think that we really need grunts of faction before getting named ones. Especially not in the three first parts of the canto
We do because they cant be released after the named characters.
Game has powercreep, you cant release capo this season and a soldato next one, because then the random thumb grunt ends up being stronger than the big important thumb ID. ID lore strength doesnt progress lineary but it does progress nonetheless, we arent getting section 5 association fixers anymore, or level 2 agents, and we wouldnt be getting a student after maestro either.
why the hell are you getting downvoted for this
It's pretty typical for Part 1 IDs to be gruntslop, wait until the next set of IDs is revealed to start the doompost
The season isn't even 1 day old yet calm down
vro the season is less than a day old
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