If you’re a USPSA member you probably got an email about this and while it’s easy to ignore I think it’s worth pointing out that for some idiotic reason the proposed changes redefines the “lady” category from simply “gender on government ID” to “registered female at the time of birth and who has two X chromosomes (XX).” Let people live their damn lives as they please and don’t pull culture war bullshit into this sport/hobby. There is no competitive advantage issue here. This is pure political crap. If you believe in freedom of choice and expression please respond to the USPSA survey on these proposed changes and let them know you’re tired of this crap.
Freedom!!! Now please take a mandatory DNA test and submit your original birth certificate. 🙄
Think I heard something about a law in NC pertaining to entering public bathrooms based on your gender assigned at birth. Who the fuck is policing that?
Not sure if it's real or not, but I wouldn't be surprised.
What a time to be alive.
Practically speaking, it’s enforced by people who see someone go into a women’s room but don’t present sufficiently feminine. So basically, butch lesbians are getting harassed for peeing.
I had this argument with my sister in law. Who is not a parent, but is "so thankful I have a son and not a daughter!" (Because boys never get molested, I guess?)
We discussed the gender in bathrooms bullshit. I tried to explain to her, that by using statistics and basic common sense, one can deduct how ridiculous the argument is.
I'm a straight, 40 year old, boring woman. My husband of 18 years and I have a 6 year old boy. But let's say I'm a man and want to molest children. Am I going to dress as a woman, leave my house that way, walk around in public, find and hang out in a women's public bathroom all day, waiting for the off chance that a shitty parent is going to leave their young child in there unattended for long enough for me to approach, do whatever the fuck they do, all in that tiny area, with the boisterous echoing and laughable "privacy" of a public stall, and leave, still dressed as a woman and without being caught? Even if the rest worked out, no one's going to notice or remember a man clearly dressed as a woman in a public bathroom for hours? With all the cameras now? Seriously?!? And a parent is going to leave a child not old enough to report me in there alone for however long? What are the odds? Pedophiles aren't fucking stupid, but even if they were...
Or am I just going to find a single mother, a neighbor or a relative with a small child that could use some help? Someone that trusts me, because I'm very intelligent, manipulative, and present as a "normal, boring, stable" man. Then I could slowly and creepily gain access to what I want and use that trust against them?
Because both statistics and common sense point to the latter being the most common approach. Because the former is, let's be honest, just fucking stupid. The argument of the idea of most ridiculous misuse of allowing transgender people in their identifying bathroom is just laughable. But these are the arguments we're having now.
I apologize for long post and run on sentences. Just so hard to find like minded people right now. Family or otherwise. It's crazy.
No you’re right to ramble. Those people who believe the cis men crossdressing to rape girls myth are pretty mentally unstable to even come up with a scenario of such that never happens and to believe it is happening so we need a law to this thing that doesn’t exist which will also prevent some women from being able to safely use the women’s bathroom. Or they are mentally unstable and are doing it out of hate using the worst gaslighting techniques imaginable.
It's a confession that they would consider doing it, if they felt like it was allowed. I want to commit no rapes, so I don't commit rapes. Not that difficult.
The projection is always confession
Thank you! I don't even have gay or trans people in my life. For no other reason than not knowing many gay people or any trans people. I don't reserve strong feelings or opinions about them because I try not to have those about any group. I'm just a big believer in common sense and minding my own damn business, really.
And... to be honest with you... 95% of the people I see walking around in public I would hate to think of what they might do behind closed doors. Even straight white people are damn freaks. So what do I care about what trans people do?
Let's just remember that cis women made 2 girls and 1 cup, ladies and gents. 🤮
OMG you pulled out such a great point at the end there 😂
Right?!? Straight people aren't the almighty moral high ground we make ourselves out to be. Let's be honest here! ❤️
You know she'd absolutely lose her shit if someone that looked like Buck Angel walked into the bathroom while she's in there.
That's the thing I bring up. Under these stupid bathroom laws, Buck would be required to use a women's bathroom. Many many transmen who look very masculine would be required to use the women's bathroom. They were born female. A lot of very feminine women would be required to use the mens room for the same sort of reasons. It would make it more possible for a cis child molester to enter the wrong bathroom, even though they would stand out as not being in the right place even more.
My cousin (afab) transitioned a couple years ago (hormones and top surgery). He's a big macho looking dude now. Nobody would bat an eye in the men's room now; yet pre-transition, while still identifying as female, could well have been accused by one of these Karens white in the ladies' room
I don't know who that is or if you're speaking about me or my sister in law, but I don't pay much attention to other people in the restroom when I'm in there. I go. I pee. I wash my hands. I leave. To me, it's not a fiasco worth so much discussion, never mind legislature. But that's just my opinion.
Relying to you, about her. This is Buck Angel (afab). He a porn actor. He kept the original plumbing.
https://preview.redd.it/hydy22kwst9g1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f67bbd6e525d5a3bcaa766760bf5ef89d6f3a30e
Gotcha. Couldn't be sure if I'd said something wrong or misunderstood, this is wild! 🤣
I’ve used this exact literal argument, even posting a pic of him, and they NEVER have a good response for what happens when he goes into the women’s restroom.
It's a great example of Brandolini's law
Damnit! I forgot my "LT;DR."
TL;DR: Watch your children in public, if worried about CSA, statics suggest to be weary of a benign male, that's intelligent, religious, white in their late 30s that your child knows.
With stats like those, it's just easier to blame trans people though, right? /s
I'm stealing this term. It's mine now. Forever. I could never find a brief way just to explain why I'm so thorough and overly analytical. In short, I'm "long-winded" while explaining why I'm "long-winded."
Stupidity just irritates me and I can't handle it!
I love you. This is fantastic.
Thank you! I'm sorry it's so long, it's just infuriating to me.
We were supposed to have flying fucking cars by now! But, no, we're too busy paying to have brown people kidnapped and held without basic humanity, arguing about the earth being flat, debating about the simplest science of vaccines, (What the actual fuck is that about?!?) and creating legislature about public fucking restrooms.
Exhausting!
Flying cars?! Have you seen how people in New Jersey and Tennessee drive?! Hard pass, thanks.
🤣
I'm from New England, I've been to NJ many times, so I hear that. But MA is general is the worst I've experienced. Boston or gives me the worst driving anxiety. But someone posted a dashcam video of a person driving the opposite way into a parking lot in TN, so I actually fell into a rabbit hole of watching TN drivers. I couldn't believe some of it.
Boston and NJ are more aggressive/how close can I get to your car? TN just seemed like Where am I? What's going on? Kinda drivers. Terrifying!
Ah yes. I am also familiar with Massholes.
In my experience, Jersey drivers will signal at the last second and then cut across 4 lanes of traffic. TN drivers, though, you have to watch the car's body language. It'll start drifting towards the edge of the lane and then.... suddenly cut across 4 lanes of traffic with no signal.
Massholes, as I recall, might not do that kind of maneuver, but will casually cut you off and brake check you without a second thought.
Regardless, it's bad enough managing these folks in 2 dimensions. I would prefer to not add a third.
It's a very good point. I guess longing for the life I saw in Back to the Future II should be more focused on indoor gardens or self-drying jackets.
Way to pee on my rainbow by bringing reality into it. Meh!
🤣
If men are so dangerous and tricky that they're willing to go to all of that trouble to dress and try to pass as a woman and wait in a bathroom, that means that mens restrooms must be insanely dangerous for children because the run of the mill not willing to wear women's clothes and stake out a stall guys could be in there.
We have laws on the books for people harassing and assaulting people and I get that they want children protected but we can't institute a pre-crimes unit without stomping all over rights and freedoms. The bottom line is, the problem as they articulate it, is dangerous men only they add extra steps to obfuscate that fact. Or am I missing some discussion where trans men are going into men's bathrooms because all the handwringing I've seen is over men dressing up as women in women's restrooms. To be completely honest, I'm not sold on the idea that we need gendered bathrooms at all. Put in stalls with doors/walls that go to the floor for privacy and if you need them an emergency button and just have non-gendered toilets. I'm not going into the ladies retiring room to have a crinoline adjusted, a seam repaired, or having to have servants assist with getting me on the chamber pot anymore.
100% agree. Couldn't agree more. And I also agree as a parent. I'm all about protecting my child, but at what cost to others? And from what and specifically? And why?
The best protection we can provide our children is care, support, presence and involvement. Not using them for political agendas against anyone we want to ostracize or punish.
The whole thing is just stupid. And, for as long as ladies take in public restrooms, if they were to increase stall privacy around door and floor, sign me up for unisex please! ❤️
To be completely honest, all violations of stall privacy that I've experienced in a restroom have been from the children. I've never seen a man in a wig peek out from under the stall to ask how I'm doing but it's happened at least 7 times with toddlers. XD
So much truth! Kids just don't even GAF. They haven't learned shame or privacy. I love it! 🤣
You should have your sister look up the countless molestations of altar boys in Catholic churches. Like if she were a reasonable human being I wouldn't have her do that, but she needs a reality check.
My brother and I were raised by a single mother in a tiny apartment, then a trailer, mom then spent 8 years in night school getting her Associate's degree and eventually buying us a home. Moved from the production line to managing marketing over 23 years.
My brother worked his way through law school waiting tables and being a personal trainer. Met the wife at the gym.
We're all hard workers, but he says he "married up" (didn't know that was still a thing?) so, because his wife's family has money, I guess that makes her opinion on things valuable or justified?
She's behind the good fight of bathroom rights, huge Trump supporter, and recently informed me that America is a "Christian nation." Boy, was I shocked! Imagine my surprise! They struggled to have children and when she gained 8 lbs. taking hormone medication, she decided she couldn't go through with it. I'm glad, I don't believe people that appearance-based should have children. And my son having autism made her "suspicious" of my brother's genetics...? (She married down, after all!)
So, we barely speak, but whenever I'm brave enough to open Facebook, she's always there to offer the most ridiculous, ignorant and astoundingly obtuse opinion on just about everything. She's the person that gives me "proof" that the idiots we read about are real. Walking around and voting. I assume it's their money that makes them this out of touch, but who really knows? 🤣
Thanks for being you. Don't understand why it's so hard to find reasonable people now, but here we are.
I'm a trans woman so this comment section is actually really comforting. I hope you are doing well friend, we gotta keep this country from failing at the polls and be ready to protect it if necessary.
I mean look at all the cis gender teachers that are raping young students. Anyone regardless of biological sex or perceived gender has a possibility of being a predator but still it's less than 1% of the population, rules/laws that infringe on a greater population's rights cuz of a tiny minority of a minority is criminal.
Over 70% of child abuse/murder cases are perpetrated by the biological mother does that mean we should outlaw mothers being alone with their children until they prove they're not a danger to said child, of course not that's ludicrous.
1% of men are responsible for over 60% of all violent crime does that mean that 99% of us should be punished & have our basic rights violated? Absolutely fucking not, regardless of what misandrists would like us to believe.
This rolling back on LGBTQ rights is dystopic & criminal. I fear for my friends in that community. They're just people living their lives & overwhelming majority aren't a threat to anyone. It's just an easy target just like the Jews were to the Nazis.
As a butch lesbian who has been harassed in the women's room for over 50 years, I concur
Texas has state patrol guarding the poop.
Fighting the good fight, of course. 🙄🤣
Have to enforce OSHA rules.
https://preview.redd.it/ulu55sacks9g1.jpeg?width=4080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5587940ac6742f66bde457565b9cde9126321d7d
I'm not gonna look that up.. the geek in me really wants to look that up.
Yeah I'd love to see how well that goes over when someone like Leo Macallan tries to walk into the women's restroom, IF there were even a way to properly police it, because there's no way that anyone would be able to tell that Leo Macallan was AFAB/is FTM trans without seeing his bits or swabbing his DNA.
This is how I got my uncle to understand how invasive it was. I asked him if he was ok proving his birth sex to authorities whenever he used a public restroom. He said no they are only after trannies. I said you don’t get out of it by claiming to be too ugly to be a trans person.
The vagueness is the entire point of laws of this nature. Police will be selectively enforcing it according to their own biased and bigoted notions of gender.
I’m in NC using a gender neutral bathroom right now.
Me too! In PA at least. My house has 1.5 gender neutral bathrooms cause that's how bathrooms work
Thank you! I honestly don't give a shit who's in a bathroom with me. Because... stalls, right? And private bathrooms are even more ridiculous to add a gender to.
Arguments are exhausting. Why have them over such stupid things? Baffling.
https://preview.redd.it/937rw11v1z9g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b72ce8e63699fa3e70b86388a035326198ada70c
I have invasive thoughts. The first one I had was that this is a massive opportunity for someone with Klinefelter Syndrome or Triple X Syndrome to troll USPSA
Everybody is free to compete in the open league, regardless of chromosomes. That’s as free as it gets
Yeah, I wanna know who at USPSA is doing the fucking DNA testing to ensure chromosomal accuracy.
Nothing says "freedom" like mandatory genital inspections and blood tests cross referenced with your private medical records.
They should do it for the men’s league as well to be fair in making the bigots who did this uncomfortable too.
Absolutely should. It won't be fair play otherwise.
And remove all of the ones with Low-t and claim the men's league is for "Alpha's" only. 😂
Maybe then they will understand that sex/gender really are spectrums 😂
It’s open season for pervs man. Absolutely gross.
From the top on down. Oligarchs gonna oligarch. Same as it ever was.
I mean, to be fair, it's a pretty unfair physical advantage. Cis womens can't fit their penis into the vertical foregrip in order to stabilize their gun, it's just a biological fact.
The chromosome thing is always so funny to me, because my wife has a condition where she just has one X chromosome, that’s it. And there are XXY, XY people who have female reproductive organs, and all sorts of other configurations that they don’t seem to be able to account for.
I took a DNA test once, apparently I'm 50% female on my mom's side.
XXY folks have male external genitalia and most commonly identify as male - BUT! This is one of the groups of people who are gonna get screwed over by any bills prohibiting gender affirming care. These folks typically have low testosterone and this can cause fatigue. So it’s like a no-brainer to give someone who is XXY extra T if they want it.
But on a bigger point, yeah, gender isn’t that important to human development. The other 22 chromosomes are super essential and the body can’t tolerate much deviation. As in, early miscarriage. And while most of us walk around this world as a “classic boy” or “classic girl”, if someone gets a mismatched set of sex chromosomes, they typically don’t have much difficulty in life.
Didn't the executive order in January define gender as ascribed at conception effectively rendering everyone female?
Wait, can you tell me more about the features of xxy?
I'm AMAB, but last year I was found to have extremely low testosterone and I have chronic fatigue. How would I find out if XXY was the cause? I was an egg donor baby, but 23andme didn't identify chromosomal abnormalities (don't know if their tests even cover that).
Talk to whomever found out you have low testosterone. The condition is called Klinefelter Syndrome, and it’s not extremely rare. I’m the wrong kind of doctor - I have a PhD in this stuff, from the 90s - so I don’t have any clinical experience. I wonder if there’s some reason you WEREN’T evaluated for that?
Thank you for the information. I was born in the early 90s and I was a home birth, could be that's why they didn't test? I don't know why my doctor who assessed my testosterone didn't check klinefelter's, but I check all the symptom boxes, so I've messaged him. My wife and I are about to start trying for kids, so this was really good to know about.
Hi Dmonick1! No definitely it’s not something anyone would notice at birth. People with Klinefelters are quite healthy and well. So, people tend to get diagnosed when they are having difficulty conceiving. Good luck on your journey!
My first question was “who’s paying for the genetic testing?”
The competitor obviously
People really don’t get that these variations exist and sometimes as frequently as red hair.
We don’t even define sex via karyotype unless genitalia are ambiguous.
Sry translocation doesnt exist for these people. Literally meiosis doesnt exist.
Remember, the cruelty is the point. Every time I see this pointed out in an argument, people will just say that anyone with any sort of intersex disorder is a man. It really is that simple to them.
There was a great New Yorker article about this a few years back. Gender is not at all straightforward.
As usual, conservatives are at the wrong end of the Dunning-Kruger chart.
Edit: found it https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-weekend-essay/who-gets-to-play-in-womens-leagues
Did she self replicate as an identical copy from her mother? 😅
Its actually usually a non-disjunction in meiosis during the formation of the sperm. During meiosis, each of the chromosomes should be duplicated and then separated out during meiosis 1 and 2. However, sometimes the proteins involved dont separate properly. Both duplicate Ys can end up in one cell during meiosis 1. By the end of meiosis 2, one sperm may have 22 chromosomes plus two sex chromosomes YY. If this sperm fertilizes an egg, this person can become an XYY individual, because the sperm contained two y chromosomes. The other side of the division sees sperm lacking any sex chromosomes. When this sperm fertilizes, you get someone with no second x nor y. They have only one X, and have Turner Syndrome.
You were partially right. The X chromosome material in these women are solely from their mother. However, its not a straight cloning of one X, as in early Meiosis 1, crossing over occurs. So these people generally have a mix of X genes from their maternal grandparents. There is also scenarios in which a person who has Turner Syndrome has their fathers X, if the egg experiences nondisjunction and a subsequent egg lacking any sex chromosomes.
Most natural abortions occur because of issues around chromosomes. For example if that egg missing any sex chromosomes was fertilized with a sperm lacking an X. This offspring will not be born, as at least one X is required for development. There are no monosomy Y persons.
XX males also exist, as some X chromosomes can obtain the major sex determination gene- the SRY gene, through translocatuon during crossing over. I remember reading about a male who did the genetic testing kit thing and they reported back that he was incorrect about his sex chromosomes and he was XX. He had an X with the SRY on it, leading to more typical male development.
Some of this should have been covered in high school biology.
If this was in HS biology, it would definitely be in the Honors classes. Regular bio barely covered what it covered and most people weren't paying attention anyway. So the vast majority of the population still wouldn't hear/know about it.
It might be. Teachers can focus on different things. My freshmen learn this every year. They wouldnt be able to explain it like this, but they research one chromosome disorder and present it to the class. Turner Syndrome and XXY and XYY are those disorders which appear in a few different exercises as well as the topic for the project and group presentation are present during this unit.
Turners Syndrome, it’s called.
Turner Syndrome is written 45, X0 and involves a nondisjunction or partial loss of X chromosome in a parental gamete, usually the paternal sperm. There is some mosaicism and different errors that cause the phenotype but generally they are women with only 1 functional X chromosome.
This causes some medical problems but isn't catastrophic or incompatible with life because women generally only have one active X chromosome copy in each cell. The other X chromosome is inactivated in something called a Barr body.
This is a relatively common genetic condition and a straightforward example of why gender and sex isn't as straightforward as these culture war morons try to make it. Other conditions include XXY Klinefelter Syndrome, androgen insensitivity syndrome, etc.
I was literally going to say Turner Syndrome lol. Klinefelter, androgen insensitivity syndrome, and several other intersex or chromosomal conditions. This is exactly why bureaucrats and politicians need to stay tf out of medicine because they have no idea what they're talking about and then they make shitty rules and laws and go "oh the law doesn't mean that" while doctors and their lawyers say "yes it most certainly does."
I don't understand why people are so adamant about arguing about things that don't affect them, or even the average person. Arguing about things that don't actually matter.
There's so much awful shit going on right now. (I know any generation could say that, but we're in a very divisive time.) And it feels like all we care about are trans people or immigration status. It's so wild.
I realize that I live in Maine, predominately white, Christian/Catholic, basic ass people. But that actually makes it worse. The way you'd hear people even here talking, you'd think a trans person walks up to them every morning, punches their child in the face, and hands them a flyer inviting them to an orgy or something.
I've seen maybe 5 trans people in my entire life. You know what they were doing? Nothing memorable, that's for damn sure. I just remember being nervous about how to address them and not hurt anyone's feelings. That's about the extent of my "discomfort" with trans people. And, TBH, that's probably common for them and I'd wager they'd correct me if I was wrong and hold no grudge. Reasonable people can recognize whether or not you're intending to insult them.
Individual crimes are one thing. White women commit them and that doesn't make me a criminal. But, please wake me up when a significant amount of them are shooting up schools or there's evidence of groups of trans people involved in sex trafficking or child molestation rings, drug cartels or any other group activity that would somehow justify daily articles, news or basic conversations about how awful these people are.
A church sign in Oklahoma, I think, said (paraphrasing): "If trans people bother you more than Nazis, you need to re-evaluate your priorities."
Howdy fellow Mainer 😊 glad we’ve got more representation in here
Omg! You're in Maine?!! Are you a non-Trump supporter?!? Omg. Please tell me you're real. Fucking pinch me! I'm dying!
My husband had a bit of a breakdown last month when he got into an argument with my uncle over these things. He got upset about how we've lost all our friends and family to this and there's not a person among us who's still intelligent and kind, or even just reasonable and willing to change their mind when given new information.
Cannot wait to tell him if you're real. ARE YOU REAL?!?
I’m real. 😂 I’m a super stealth trans man living in the Portland area. My whole family and my wife’s family are adamantly anti-trump.
We do exist. I guess we’re just in hiding.
Wow! I met a non-Trump Mainer and a trans person today! I'm on top of the world! Thank you for commenting. It feels so damn good to not be alone here. And, like I said in my first comment, I've only seen about 5 trans people in my life. I'm sure I've seen more that may have just passed better? But, overall, I'm just baffled that being trans is even a "political" issue. Why?!?
I grew up in Sanford and own a home in Buxton now. Thankfully, my mother is "with" me, father and brother not. Also my husband's parents and one of his two sisters. The other sister is still talking about kitty litter in Gorham schools. 🤣JFC.
I just told someone else how little I want to see of other people's sex lives. Regardless of gender or orientation, race or religion. I don't meet a person and think of their genitals or sex life. I just don't care.
And a friendly reminder that cis women created 2 girls, 1 cup. So I'm not sure what the trans community has done that is so offensive or upsetting.
Sadly, the stupidest people are the loudest. I don't see that changing.
Good day to you!
Abso-damn-lutely. Here in Texas, you’d think there’s men dressing in drag and going daily into every corner store bathroom with the sole intent of raping women, as often as you hear it come out of Greg Abbott’s mouth or legislative floor votes.
When a political party doesn’t have a decent policy-driven platform to stand on, this is the shit they come up with. Boogeyman wedge issues to stir shit up and make media-illiterate folks stay in their pockets on Election Day.
It's trans or gay people living their best lives and that makes them mad because they got a boner over trans woman or a twink
Honestly, that might have more truth than many think. Because I really don't understand why anyone cares. Why can't we villainize actual abhorrent crimes, behavior and beliefs? Things that affect and hurt everyone. Imagine where we'd be by now.
In Canadian kids sports this played out with allowing anyone to challenge the legitimacy of anyone playing in female leagues.
Surprise, surprise, participation has plummeted because many of the most talented players don’t want to deal with being investigated because a jealous parent thinks their kid’s trophy got stolen.
What's even the point in doing this in the least athletic sport.
The shotgun sports are definitely less athletic than USPSA.
Darts? Chess?
Virtue signaling. Just got to start a parallel league called Patriot Freedom Eagle Pistol Competition or something that is explicitly open.
The party of freedom sure does like restricting freedoms
Snowflakes that need the big strong government to step in and make them feel like it’s safe to go potty in public.
Soooo.....T'd up trans men in the Lady's division?
Culture war bullshit distracting us from our trash fire government. 1 in 1000 people are born with XXY - which category do they compete in?
I didn’t know it was that common, Mayo Clinic says 1 in 600.
More examples of antiscience chuds being smooth brained. Every time they open their mouths they eliminate Turner Syndrome individuals as people with human rights. Xyy males apparently cannot exist either.
These fucking idiots.
Men women trans - all should be irrelevant. Should be you choose belt/holster positioning A or B, have it deemed safe and that's it, then classify by gun being used
Well, ladies divisions in shooting sports are good for bringing women and girls into the sport. It provides a safe environment for women who have concerns about harassment and the like. Obviously, shooting sports aren’t near as bad as like chess, but being the only woman in a male space can still be uncomfortable. And of course, trans women are women.
I'm a lady who enjoys shooting, yeah definitely been harassed/man-splained to about my own fucking gun, etc
Do you prefer women's only matches? Or do you prefer showing the boys how it's done?
I've only done some local matches that were explicitly lgbtq friendly and full of other queer folks. I don't particularly enjoy competing but it's something different to do.
You must understand, we must oppress 1% of the population because of a strawman argument about bathrooms and sports
Even following the traditional excuses bigots use, this is a dexterity sport. I don’t think there’s any innate advantage or disadvantage to either gender’s physiology.
I’m honestly just scratching my head at what advantage they could reasonably think trans people have
Our key advantage on the range is not being distracted by cultural war bullshit.
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Is this a physical thing or an opportunity/sample size thing? I find it hard to believe that a sport in which middle aged men are as competitive as young men is physically inaccessible to women as a whole.
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This is an extreme fallacy. Just because a person of X demographic has not achieved something does not make them inherently worse at it. You could use this logic to justify everything from misogyny to racism.
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What does my shooting USPSA have to do with your statement being misogynistic? By your logic women are dumber than men because there hasn't been a top rated female chess player.
There's a proposed "Category Eligibility Committee" too. My feedback was that we shouldn't be spending the limited organization budget on a witch hunt committee, and that relying on MDs to read a birth certificate is preposterous when half of them don't understand Virginia count.
I'm still not sure why we even gender shooting at all. Isn't it like, the women's team at the Olympics totally fucking dominated so they gendered it back in like the early 20th century?
Like, I'm pretty sure there are already women who can beat a lot of men in competitive shooting, so if a trans person competes, what advantage would they have
It wasn’t a woman’s team but it was several women who beat out men for medals so their was their own division.
Outside of a few sports, the Men’s / Women’s divide is about things other than physical ability.
Why have a men’s and women’s divisions in chess? Hint it’s because the stereotypical chess player only emerges from their mom’s basement to go to the chess club. Only occasionally having taken a shower in the last week. (Now that not really true, but socially awkward guys are the reason for a lack of participation that the women’s divisions are trying to fix)
https://preview.redd.it/r4fvvypvyr9g1.jpeg?width=449&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=410680c57b5f8b4bdcd9b937a6833f23d8425b10
Gives these vibes
So who's gonna tell.tjem that a good portion of men and or woman would fail this 🤔
Why's there a woman category and why's it even matter rather than just one anyone can enter? Some wonderbread mentally
Often times women’s divisions are also about the environment and culture as well. Men can be very intimidating. Trans women are women so not a defense of this terrible proposed rule, just explaining why women’s categories exist even when they don’t seem necessary.
The only point as far as I'm aware is if matches / leagues want to award prizes or whatever by category. There's also Junior (under 18), Military, Law Enforcement, and 3 different age related categoroes for older folk.
Regardless, this change is stupid and bad.
We have a junior that walks all over everyone. It's funny how much it bothers some of the try hard guys.
We have a Jr Lady and a Distinguished Senior Woman here that just wipe the floor with everyone who isn’t Jesse Grant / Misco.
Seriously I’m a multidivision GM and a 37 year old big dude, and that 17 year old and 75 year old (no idea tbh I haven’t asked her age) absolutely destroy me every time I see them.
Sidenote: your username hilarious
One can only hope some trans women enter and win in the men's division. That'd be awesome.
Men flip the fuck out when women beat them. That's literally the reason Olympic shooting got split before the 1992 games.
It’s the “2A community” so we all know that the overwhelming reaction to this will be enthusiastic approval.
So let's see...rough estimates indicate that .8% of adults identify as trans (about 1% total, with more youth than adults self identifying), and by quick Google there are about 37,000 people who shoot USPSA.
One would assume the shooting sports to attract less trans folks than average (who wants to be "surrounded" by folks who don't think you should have the right to exist?), but let's pretend the ratios are equivalent. Since we're talking only about the "lady" category, that chops that number in half (again, probably even less, but let's go with half).
So this rule change was worth it for maybe 148 people? Geeze, I'm so glad they took the time (and spent the money) to do this...it was clearly a real issue that USPSA needed to take care of. WTF.
Where is this survey of proposed rule changes you speak of? Because I most certainly would like to let them know my feelings on the matter.
There are 440 clubs according to the uspsa site. So this affects less than one person at half the clubs statistically.
Woo hoo, let’s all celebrate solving a massive problem.
Thank you for sharing. If this change happens they’ll lose me as a member.
Can someone smarter and more eloquent than me suggest a good response for the survey?
Or shall i just keep it simple and respond that I do NOT support the revision? Perhaps short and to the point is best.
These people only passed high school biology. You all prolly know this but sexual organs don't 100% of the time reflect your chromosomes
DNA test someone AFAB, doesnt have the "correct chromosomes", now what dick head
All trans exclusion somehow always excludes AFAB folk as well
Well fuck USPSA then.
So much is just "Me having to see you harms me. On its own. With no contact and no words needed. "
And then genetic fallacy over every real harm that would be caused by not making things harder for trans folks.
Trans persons boyfriend hits you? The trans person gets credit. Same with Kirk's shooter. Cis women get accused of being trans if they say pro- trans things in these online spaces. Sometimes even in person.
Because as we all knowing, having ever had a penis makes you laser-accurate on the range.
I don’t know. Some guys I see out on the range the safest place to be on the range with them is behind the target they are supposedly aiming at
This is so fucking dumb, and having rules for “ladies” different from “men” is also dumb. WHY ARE WE GENDER SEGREGATING SHOOTING??? jesus CHRIST, of all the things.
I mean I KNOW why, but it’s fucking STUPID.
Or, just leave the organization all together. The people running the outfit have already revealed what's actually on their mind. Even if they were to back-off on this policy due to some petition, we all know they're assholes now. So, fuck 'em. Why even associate with them after this?
Trans women pose no threat. There is no “trans agenda”. Only people who want to live their lives same as everyone else. If you want to put caveat on their rights, you are willing to infringe on other rights. You are no friend of freedom.
Cool, guess I won't be renewing my membership then.
Recoil control?
Asking seriously, are any of the recent women's division winners putting in scores that would be top tier (say, at least top 25%) in the men's category?
M-to-F trans in women's sports is not something the general US voting public is ready to accept right now. It basically throws a brick through the Overton Window. Sorry if some people are going to call me a hater, but pushing that is a mistake in terms of overall LGBTQ+ rights - which I support.
It's just like how we need to be careful pushing total deregulation of full auto, because I assure you, the general voting public isn't yet ready for that either. Yes, I know that's wrong. Doesn't matter if we get creamed in elections.
Yes. Justine Williams put up a 92% at race gun nationals. She’s a wildly capable shooter.
“Show us your papers and genitalia to be a member”
My legal papers say male. Even some medical records do. I have a rather noticeable member. I was not born with said member. I’m just very VERY stealth. And some nurse somewhere fucked up my medical records. 😂
If you are a USPSA member and want to share your thoughts on the proposed rule change the email has a link to provide comments. I encourage all USPSA members to do so.
Is USPSA an organization even worth supporting? Seems like a cesspool of right wing weirdos over there.
If you want to shoot majors you have to be a member. Otherwise it’s not worth it.
I’ve shot a bunch of majors over the last few years and I’m pretty done with the scene. They’re expensive and desperately need something like an event coordinator.
Even the big time events like nationals feel amateur as hell.
cries nervously in XXY
Females shoot better than males.
Sex is not gender.
People are dumb.
Identity politics ruins everything.
Post the survey link, they have two active ones and I want to make sure my complaints are getting to the right person which one is it?
US politics would be so much more tolerable of people could stop worrying about the contents of other people's panties. It wouldn't fix all of it, but it would be a start.
Imagine thinking this has anything to do with something other than legal liability...
Cool cool. So, what about XX men, XY women, all the other unusual duplicated or deficient sex chromosomed like X, XXY, etc? What about chimeras? Other intersex people? Some people are just dumb as rocks
Florida USPSA had the slogan “all guns matter”, a play on the Anti-BLM statement “all lives matter”, on their t-shirts in 2020. I get the feeling the organization is run by insecure trolls.
Idk I could see men having stronger wrists or something but this definitely feels like a sport that really doesn’t need a gender devision, next to maybe chess and shit…
Already happening
https://www.bbc.com/sport/67127168
USCF, the us chess federation, said “Hey FIDE, F you.” Their policy is the first change to the gender is just done, the second requires a birth certificate (ie make sure since you can only do it once but we won’t ask questions.)
I got my name and gender changed with just an email to USCF. Was great to see that.
I knew someone with only one “X”. That’s it. No other X or Y. What does she do?
They going to be checking genitals at the door? Peak conservative virtue signaling.
The other... The what you was, not what you are.
Do you have a link or do you know what date this was sent out? I'd like to send them an angry email about this BS
Haven't been able to find it yet
Found it, member feedback listing for the new docs are here: https://uspsa.org/announcement/1022
PDF listing the rule change is here: https://files-cdn.uspsa.org/EOjoPXFSNuQJdoEJaWxw
Text of the rule update:
Category: Lady
Eligibility: A competitor individually registered as “Lady” is a person who was registered female at the time of birth and who has two X chromosomes (XX).
Applicable Documentation:
Physical birth certificate
Image of birth certificate
Funny (i.e. pathetic) how this doesn't even apply for FtM transgender folks
So everyone who registers to compete as a woman has to show her birth certificate, while the dudes can just get to shootin'?
Sure sounds like it. I guess this might not get enforced at level I matches, but it sure provides a way for any woman to get harassed. So fucking stupid.
Fascist bigoted crap from the worst people in the country.
Women with any chromosomes are free to compete in the Open league like everybody else.
Edit: if a trans woman entered the open league, they’d be breaking ground for women.
Open leagues are almost always called men’s leagues.
You’re nonchalantly telling trans people they should out themselves in order to participate in a sport/hobby in an already hostile environment.
Rules like this are designed to make trans people not want to participate and part of a broader effort to make trans people afraid to exist in public.
I think with certain sports under certain circumstances we can have an honest conversation about trans women participating. This is shooting a pistol. This is nothing but plain harassment.
Or they’d be seen as a woman breaking barriers
No they wouldn’t, stop being dense. If you don’t think trans women should compete in a women’s league in a sport where their birth sex literally doesn’t matter just own your transphobia, don’t hide behind nonsense.
Edit: you definitely have a history of transphobia that you wrap up with a pseudo concern bow.
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...as though it's a secret?
No, trans people could enter as any gender they present as. If they present as a woman, they’d be breaking ground for women.
Should add an email or someone we can message to the OP to make our voices heard.
"registered female at the time of birth and who has two X chromosomes (XX).”
Tell me you flunked basic biology without telling me you flunked basic biology.
How exactly do they plan to check either one of those?
Also, what are their plans for someone with Kleinfelters or Turners?
Umm what about those with XXY?
I wonder how long it takes before someone they consider a "lady" tests as anything other than XX. Will there be a quick switch back after that?
Personally, I have neither the experience nor a sufficient horse in the race to declare myself the arbiter of sex-based competitive advantage in shooting.
I am aware that there are many female shooters way better than I'll ever be, but I'm also aware that the male competitive advantage in many/most athletic endeavors is real and is not limited merely to muscle mass and better coaching (source: father of teenagers of both sexes, all of whom wrestle and play soccer, at the bare minimum).
I'd also suggest that the potential harm to trans folks caused by these policies is vastly exaggerated for political leverage, and one thing I am done doing is giving lip service to things that I don't believe and don't even pass the sniff test.
That said, I agree with your default inclination to "live and let live", and I similarly question whether in this instance the lack of a policy would cause the same harm that could be argued for in, say, football (either kind) or combatives.
I certainly wouldn't be inclined toward such a policy for my shooting league, but I would be interested in hearing my constituent women's opinions on the matter.
Can’t wait to see trans men competing against cis women.
As a VERY stealth trans man. My wife and I joke a lot about how they’d feel if I walked into the women’s bathroom.
I am a very typical dude. Muscular. Bald. Beard. Tattooed. Noticeable bulge. Deep voice. Carry’s a gun. Former marine. Like…..
I’m not comfortable walking into the women’s bathroom
How else are they gonna protect their women though?!
/s
😂 my wife and I were just discussing similar issues.
If the men were so concerned with the safety of their own wives they would stop hitting them.
Their daughters? Teach their sons to respect women. Understand the word no. Appreciate, respect and GO TO THERAPY.
Unfortunately trans men always get caught up in this nonsense too. They claim they’re on performance enhancing drugs (testosterone) and thus can’t compete against cis women. And then I hear the debate from cis men that it also disadvantages them as well since “steroids bad” as if they haven’t had a post-puberty lifetime of testosterone exposure.
Uspsa has a rule against performance enhancing drugs?
No clue but all it takes is one bearded trans dude winning a ladies event or one out trans man winning a men’s/open event before it happens I’m sure. The anti-trans folks have figured out that trans men exist and have been going after them lately.
For example in the UK trans people (men or women) aren’t supposed to use either bathroom because they’ll discomfort the “opposite biological sex and same biological sex” being in the bathrooms. They’re supposed to use a gender neutral one.
Edit: it does appear they do have a rule under section 10.7.2 of their rules.
USPSA considers any substance, or circumstance, legal or otherwise which might impair or enhance performance, irrespective of route of administration, to be an extremely serious offense.