I live in a state where I can't get a suppressor. Hoping to get suggestions on 9mm Pistol Caliber Carbines that would be considered low recoil, reliable, and durable. The research i to it has my head spinning. Would prefer a lower maintenance set up, not worried about the price point.
You'll want roller delayed or a gas blowback system if you want reduced recoil. Roller delayed will include any MP5 clone, Springfield Kuna, the Stribog gen 3, and I think the Cmmg Banshee uses a similar system. Gas system will be a Sig MPX and most AR9's. Prices will vary, an MPX or an HK SP5 will cost the most at a couple grand, while the Kuna, Stribog, any AR-9 and some of the MP5 clones will sit at or just under a grand.
The CMMG Dissent is their version of a roller delayed system. The Banshee uses a standard AR type of gas system.
EDIT. Whoops. got my CMMG models mixed up. The Dissent uses a bufferless system, while the Banshee uses DI or a Radial Delayed system.
Ahhh, yeah. Knew it had an option for a similar system. Radial delay. Didn't know it had gas too.
They don't. They're both radially delayed blowback. The only difference (in pistol cartridges) is the recoil spring.
They both use a radially delayed system. The banshee just used a standard buffer tube while the Dissent has a compact one that's contained entirely in the upper receiver.
In rifle cartridges they use gas systems, but for the pistol cartridges they're all blowback.
Both the dissent and banshee used the same rotary delayed system/ bolt. The dissent has the recoil and spring assembly contained in the upper and the banshee uses the standard buffer tube spring setup.
Most AR9s don’t use any gas system. They are just blowback.
I stand corrected, just seen a few with and assumed most used it. All good though.
Don’t forget the vector
Springfield Kuna or HK SP5
I'm in CA and suppressors are out and AR pistols are a pain in the butt and expensive.. I set up a 16" AR9 on a basic milspec lower and it's been very reliable so far and uses proven and reliable parts. If you want to build something, here's what's in it
Lower Parts: Aero M4E1 milspec lower, AR15 lower parts kit/grip/stock, A5 buffer tube, Kynshot 5007 hydraulic buffer, Kynshot spacer, Tubb flat wire AR15 spring. BAD lever. Mean Arms Exomags for magazines or you can use an adapter for Glock or other mags. The 5007 hydraulic buffer allows you to swap to a 556 upper by just removing the Kynshot spacer and using normal 556 magazines. Hogue Freedom Fighter/Kingpin for CA compliance fixed magazine.
Upper Parts: milspec upper, Ballistic Advantage 16" EPC 9mm barrel, BKFirearms 9mm bolt, Guntec barrel shroud, KAK handguard.
Misc: Romeo 5, Arisaka 2.26" riser, Holosun HM3X magnifier, Unity FTC clone mount, B5 foregrip, Driven Arms Co grip, Magpul SL stock, Modlite clone light
https://preview.redd.it/rwe3i2s5il9g1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6be1a5ff9f6323ebbc608956b189859ee01b2743
I will always plug the Extra EP9, great to shoot and very reliable.
but if price is absolutely no option then I'm sure a Kuna/Scorpion/Stribog/Sig MPX Rattler/SP5 (iirc in increasing order of cost) would be good.
Most of the PCC's on the market are going to be this (with few exceptions). Since you're in a state with no suppressors and sounds like restricted state (Assuming maybe CA, WA, MA, etc), you probably can't get the short barreled ones also is my guess? I'll go off that assumption.
My recommendation would be one of the Ruger PC carbines. Get a model that's legal in your state although I'm partial to the takedown model because you can store it a little easier. They're great all around PCCs and probably one of the best options for a more restricted state (the tactical ones need a fin grip for example in CA) as the traditional rifle stock is legal basically everywhere. The forward M-lock slots are nice for mounting a light if you decide to get one.
Takes Glock mags which are basically all over the place so one of the best options out there for compatibility.
You're gonna need to define terms here. My definition of low maintenance is an AR15 that I take apart and clean after every range session. Is that your definition too? If not we'll need more clarity.
The PC carbine is pretty easy to maintain however. Especially the takedown model because pulling it apart is a breeze and can be cleaned pretty quick. Other than that need more information on what you consider maintenance.
I found the PC Carbine owner's manual if you wanna check it out. Disassembly is super quick based on the instructions.
I'm in CA. I love my Ruger PC9 Backpacker with Glock magwell. Super low recoil. My son often chooses it over the AR15 When we're at the range. Agree with the previous post that AR15 is a standard of simple cleaning. The PC9 while not complicated does require a little more work. I happen to enjoy cleaning my firearms.
I have a smith and Wesson FPC. I love it recoil is manageable. I share magazines with my nightstand gun and it shoots amazingly well. I love that it fold up, it’s my Prius gun, since I don’t own a truck.
For middle of the road pricing I like my stribog SP9A3 roller delayed but isn’t the softest recoiling out there.
Thank you all for the suggestions!!
Smith and Wesson FPC 9mm.
I added a Taccom buffer end plug, and an Ultradyne Lithium compensating muzzle brake. With the two the recoil has gone from a kick to just a gentle push with zero barrel rise. The Lithium muzzle device might be weird looking but it just works. At a LGS I checked out the Kel-Tec sub2000 and the S&W at the same time, the Kel-Tec felt like cheap toy next to the S&W. It is my go-to for home defense, it's easy to handle and if I am forced to fire indoors to report won't be as deafening as a rifle round.
It's a breeze to strip down and clean too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kL9TVq20GkQ
https://taccom3g.com/product/buffer-end-plug-for-sw-fpc/
https://ultradyneusa.com/product/lithium-pcc-9mm/
Affordable, EP9
Standard (1kish), Kuna
CMMG Banshee for sure
Springfield Kuna
HK SP5 if price isn't an issue.
If you want lower maintenance and cheap is not the goal HK SP-5 would be my starting point.
Kuna, Stribog 3, MP-5 clone would be my next level down.
Man, the Kuna seems like a good option from what I've heard.
I had a 9mm high point Carbine. No suppressor and it was like shooting a marshmallow gun. I had it for 10+ years never cleaned it and it ran flawlessly. Had to sell it when I moved to a state where they weren't permitted.
I went with a Ruger PC9. I don’t notice the recoil at all, can use Glock mags if you also have a Glock pistol, and mechanically is very similar to a 10/22 so it’s easy to tinker with. There are definitely higher end and more interesting options, but I’m in a restricted state, so it checked all of the boxes for me and has worked out well.
Holy cow, had to edit my og post, typos everywhere! Long story short, I have been very happy with my Ruger PC9
Restricted state as well. Came across this option for my state.
Did read maintenance isn't low. How have you found it?
Where did you read maintenance isn't low? Define maintenance?
I find it to be low maintenance. zero issues so far. Since it’s a take down it’s super easy to run the bore snake through the barrel after every second or third time out, throw the bolt back and give it a little oil/clp.
If you want a 9mm carbine that is low recoil you just need to get something with a operating system that isnt direct blowback.
Your two best bets that I know of are the cmmg banshee and the sig mpx.
Both are a bit pricey but not out of this world pricey.
Regardless of my gun I always clean them after shooting so I cant help you with the low maintenance part.
Edit: honestly id recommend a .223 carbine over a 9mm carbine.
Its more expensive to shoot but the ballistics of .223 on soft targets is pretty damn impressive.
.223 carbine is also lower recoil than a 9mm carbine (just barely but if we're splitting hairs) and its easier to find parts so mods and personalization or building your gun are all possible. If you have wonky state laws to get around this might be your best option as well.
I'm a fan of my Beretta CX4 Storm. As a bonus it shares mags with the Beretta 92.
The Stribog or Kuna would be good options unless you want to drop the cash for a B&T variant. I got my Stribog for about $900. Granted, I basically dropped another $900 to get it set up to my preferences.
Since you mention suppressors, 9mm out of a 16” is tolerable to fire without hearing protection. It’s not as loud as a suppressed AR-15, and people shoot those without hearing protection all the time.
I recommend the Ruger PC for a PCC.