Sorry if this is a rude word, but what is the meaning of صايعة?
I've once heard a middle-aged woman seemingly whisper this about a young lady in front of me & have always wondered if she was slandering her? I know some Arabic but am not familiar with all of the slang. I know the word is bad, meaning like ill-mannered (?), but to what extent and what are the connotations? Is it as offensive as calling someone a b*tch or "white trash"?? Is it like a straight-forward criticism that a classy person would use for someone ill-mannered, or would it be unclassy of the person saying it, as if they were to use the word "b*tch"? Please be specific.
And does where the person is from change the meaning? The one saying it was Libyan, and I've also heard an Iraqi say it.
It translates into "good for nothing" or "a bum".. and sometimes it is a derogatory term used for "the unemployed", "the homeless" and/or for kids who just hang-out at malls doing absolutely nothing..
But yeah.. صايِع (masculine) or صايْعَة (feminine) for a "good for nothing" person.. THE LEVEL OF INSULT is about the same in English when you call someone "you good-for-nothing, YOU!!"
and btw; we used to hang-out at malls for the air-conditioning!!.. it was hot out there!!"
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In MSA, the verb صاعَ has a number of different meanings, but the common factor between them is that the verb is associated with division or splitting..
One of such meanings is "to divide the people"
He/it-divided the-people صاعَ الناسَ -- notice that الناس has Fat-ha meaning that the noun is the object of the verb.. He or (masculine) it, divided the people, corrupted them and broke their unity..
He/it-divided/corrupted/disrupted the-people صاعَ الناسَ -- and therefore the subject of the verb is assumed to be a bad corrupted person or a bad influence..
The-president became-corrupted صاعَ الرَّئيسُ -- notice that الرَّئيسُ has Dham-ma meaning that the-president is the subject of the verb, and he is responsible for dividing, corrupting and/or disrupting the people..
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The Agent Noun (Doer Noun or Subject Noun) اسم فاعل for the verb صاعَ is صائِع
He/it-did فَعَلَ >> Doer فاعِل
He/it-wrote كَتَبَ >> Writer كاتِب
He/it-stood-up قامَ >> a person/an item who/that stands-up قائِم
He/it-corrupted صاعَ >> A corrupter/divider/disrupter صائِع
She/it-corrupted صاعَتْ >> A feminine corrupter/divider/disrupter صائِعَة
and that's standard Arabic (aka. Fus-ha or MSA), however, in most dialects of non-standard Arabic, the letter ئـ in صائع or صائِعَة is eased into صايِع (masculine) or صايْعة (feminine)..
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So basically, one can be called a disrupter/a divider/a corruptor if that person goes against the norms of a community.. MOSTLY things like kids hanging-out at malls doing nothing useful.. refusing to seek employment.. harassing other people.. doing things against morality and one's upbringing.. or generally being a bad person..
The term is vague terms by design, but to me, the BEST translation for صايِع (masculine) or صايْعة (feminine) would be "good for nothing" or "a bum"
Like a father looking at his-daughter's boyfriend and declares in Egyptian dialect !! دَهْ وادْ صايِع (THIS IS a no-good-for-nothing boy!!).. or a mother looking at her-son's girlfriend دي بِنْتْ صايْعَة (THIS IS a no-good-for-nothing girl!!)..
A bum!! A child!! hardly a functioning adult..
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Depending on the local community, the term can be interpreted as "a lazy-bum", "a person with poor moral compass and/or poor work ethics", "was poorly raised".. and generally "a bad person" صايِع (masculine) or صايْعة (feminine)..
Thank you so much for taking the time to thoroughly explain. If you read through the threads, I was in a situation that was upsetting me and wanted some clarity/to know if I was right to be upset. Is it really only as insulting as "good-for-nothing"?? I kind of got the impression it was something more insulting (even though "good-for-nothing" is already insulting, where it's not deserved). Are you a Westerner (asking to see if anything might be lost in translation)?
I'm not sure if it has different meanings in other dialects but in levantine it means that she does what she wants with no regard to manners or law.
The meaning in fusha would be a person who has no ethics.
The literal meaning is to be dispersed
How offensive would you say it is? Is it like calling someone b*tch or trashy, or just "bad-mannered girl"? What would be the English equivalent?
It’s kinda (imo) the same as saying hoe so I don’t think it’s very good to say
Omg, really?? Because I heard a middle-aged woman whisper it about a young lady, who is pretty decent (maybe wasn't the most amazing mannered as a teenager, but normal stuff, nothing horrible), when she (the middle-aged woman) was with a friend who was scouting girls at a wedding for her son. There is no reason to think the young lady is a "hoe", so I'm wondering if this woman is an evil gossip/slanderer. Are you sure "hoe" is the right word? I'm trying to understand what it means, so I can understand if this woman was being fair in criticism or has an evil tongue, so I know if I should be careful around her/not trust her with precious information.
Are you a Westerner? Do you know what "hoe" means? And how old are you, if you don't mind my asking.
No I asked my mom and she said hoe is definitely not the right word. Possibly scandalous based on traditional norms. Weather that be just staying out late or on who she talks to/wears
If you don't mind, can you ask your mom to describe what it means and the connotations? And show her my previous reply for context.
I was getting the idea that it was something worse than what you just described and was really upset at this woman for saying things like that about a nice girl she doesn't know that well (but I know her better) and was going to confront her but want to understand what it means correctly so I'm not overreacting.
Please show your mom my previous reply, as well as this one <3
And are you Westerners? Just so I know if we're understanding each other correctly/if anything might be lost in translation.
Thanks so much <3
But it’s all in all a more negative trait
Someone not raised right Or do whatever they want without regard to anyone
It's rude but doesn't really hold much meaning