Can you ever get to a point where you can truly express yourself as easily and fluently as you do in your native language? Even after years, it seems like you either stop progressing altogether or make very small progress as time goes on.
Honestly english isn't even my native language but I can express myself way better in the former. I believe that's because growing up I always talked about my feelings or the heavy stuff only in english so maybe it can be achieved with other languages too who knows.
Honestly english isn't even my native language but I can express myself way better in the former.
I've heard this a lot but I've never believed it. Just because someone is educated in English and finds it easier to talk about technical and academic stuff in English, that doesn't mean they're "more fluent in English than in their native language". They just don't understand the intricacies of a foreign language and fail to navigate them how a native speaker would. Not to mention, correct grammar is not enough, you need to use idiomatic and natural language. Once you put them among native speakers to talk about various things, you quickly realise they use unidiomatic language, unnatural phrasing and fail to express themselves as intricately and easily as how a native speaker would.
No offence but I've come across a lot of people who wanted to brag about how good their English was and it turned out that their English wasn't even good, let alone "better" than their native language. If their English is really better than their native language and their English isn't even good, how bad can they be at speaking their native language?
I'm not saying you're overestimating yourself, I'm just saying I've come across a lot of people who were like this, especially non-native English speakers.
I have many students who immigrated to the US or have been going to school here for years, and they've developed near-native fluency. And since they've been going to school here, their academic English is a lot better than the equivalent in the home language.
Sorry I grew up in an English speaking environment and my parents gave me a lot of shit if I spoke my native language to the point I cannot even count in them. So I do think I would much rather speak in english not only of the academic and technical stuff but also for therapy which is also the language I use during therapy for that matter where I guess I'm supposed to express myself. I also don't remember actually "learning" english. If I'm able to achieve this level in Italian I'll gladly take down my comment lol
What do you mean by English-speaking environment? Did your parents speak to you in English? Did you receive a lot of native English input growing up? If so, you're a native English speaker. You shouldn't have said it's not your native language.
Though, parents passing down a non-native language to their kids means they're also passing down their grammatical errors, non-native constructions, etc but that doesn't mean the kids don't have a native language. They still do.
This hits so hard. I'll know exactly what I want to say but then have to settle for some watered down version that doesn't capture what I actually meant. It's like being trapped in your own head sometimes
it's always either 你好, 唔該 or full-fledged modern youtubers speech
and I once saw Cantonese in one AI language learning app - and it was standard Chinese read with all the 是 and 不, read in a way those characters would be read in Cantonese. that was such a scam! but here are the small languages for you :(((
Disney+ has quite a few children's shows and cartoon movies dubbed in Cantonese. I found that quite helpful - you can first watch in Cantonese, then Cantonese with subtitles in standard chinese to compare the difference, then in English. I squeezed everything I could from those shows! Also, sadly, you kind of have to learn to read standard chinese at some point. Once you read well enough to read subtitles in real time things really change because you can watch HK movies and still understand it all even if the Cantonese gets a bit hairy (like in triad movies).
dang, I had an offer for Disney+ subscription some time ago, I did not use it because I do not watch movies usually....
I am learning standard Chinese and Mandarin at the same time. I even registered Duolingo with Chinese interface for learning some Cantonese :)) (there is no Cantonese in English Duolingo, only if the first language is Chinese). but it's also pretty basic stuff....
recently I found these two books written in Cantonese. they are not study books, but the entries are short, and for what I can see quite understandable. I have only glanced on a couple of topics. providing a ton of information about the culture too!
Learning and not forgetting the vocab. I can easily remember grammar, I can imitate phonetics after some time, but vocab. Because of that I can't express myself
I'm actually actively trying to use Anki properly, but sometimes I can't hold a word I've learned more than for 2 weeks. And it's also true that I can't integrate my vocab in my daily speech, generally, because I have 2 major problems: mostly I'm a person, who prefers not to speak; and also sometimes vocab I've been learning is based on subject I rarely discuss. So I believe these are my main problems and I don't actually know what to do with that
Always dedication really, I love learning languages in general so much but the individual language I'm learning will never hold my attention forever. I've been studying languages for like 4 or 5 years but I've only really successfully learnt two foreign languages (to a level of free self expression and understanding), I always go full speed for a few weeks, maybe a few months if I'm lucky but when the fuel runs out another language catches my eye and I go do that one. Idk I just lose all motivation for the one I was devoted to.
Well I love scientific linguistics too, so I always give a lot of time to grammar because I love it, pronunciation too. The issue is I think that when these things are exhausted I end up feeling a bit bored just learning words - I still love it but it's not the same when the grammar's demystified.
I usually start a language with pronouns and basic verbs and nouns - for the purpose of like experimenting with the grammar, so I can use the words to test the grammatical rules myself idk. Then I just learn more and more words I don't know really hard to explain a method!
When I DO manage to keep going, eventually all my learning becomes input really, the language just sort of becomes a part of my life - I still talk and write but it doesn't feel like practice, just like using it!
I don't know if this is what you were asking me!! I hope I sort of hit the mark (:
I don't know really, I guess I hear them or look them up then I write them down and at the end of an hour I might have 20 down on a sheet so I'll just freely write sentences and talk to myself trying to incorporate those words.
How do you learn grammar and words?
(And thank you! The languages are Norwegian and French, at the minute I'm studying Russian and I plan on taking up Mandarin again soon (:, how about you?)
First I learn vocab, like lots of vocab to be more confident. I use langap.app which works really well to retain vocabulary if you like to visualize things in your head, they have a bank of mental images (not a lot, hope they add more) but you can create yours too (I'm doing that a lot)
Then I read easy texts and when I recognize the vocab I've learned but not the complete meaning of the sentence I look up for grammar
Maybe not the best technique but I like it !
Trop bien que tu aies appris le français ! (je suis français haha)
The languages I'm most consistent with are dutch and danish, but like you I've tried many (icelandic, Norwegian, swedish, Russian, italian, Portuguese)
For me, the vocabulary, there was a time when I was able to memorize a lot but now just no. Most of the time I feel lazy if I'm honest. It's the part of language learning I really hate. Other than that i rather enjoy grammar and stuff but finding a language partner or doing language exchange can be frustrating. Sometimes it feels like I'm just trying to put random words together which make no sense to me. And i feel like is there point, it's not like I'll remember all the words at once?
I'm way too introverted to talk to random people about random stuff for practice (and I feel weird treating people as a practice pad), so I don't get fluent in any languages I learn.
I also tend to learn remote languages with no practical application. I've learned to understand Polish without having any Polish speakers around, so I can't talk to anyone, and also cannot share the stuff I read / listen / watch with anyone I know personally.
to be clear, I enjoy the process of learning, even for understanding only. but the question of human interaction is the frustrating one.
Knowing that it'll take a longgg time to actually be able to use the language like you would with your native language, depending on your dedication. Aswell as the motivation dips once in a while, that make you question why even bother with learning a new language
Being taught irrelevant terms. I try to learn some of the local language when I travel and can't stand it when apps assume all cultures are the same like everyone in the world eats fried eggs with rice.
I’ve been learning German since my youth and have spent about half my life living in Germany. My husband and my children are German, I completed a demanding degree there, and I work professionally with languages.
And yet, I still struggle with German articles.
People often say, “You just feel whether it’s der, die, or das.” My kids say that too. But I don’t feel it... or only very rarely. For certain words, I still have to look them up again and again, and it honestly drives me crazy sometimes. It feels like one of those things I may never fully internalize, no matter how long I live with the language.
I have the same problem with Lithuanian as there’s not many free sources. Paying isn’t an option as investing in it wouldn’t get you any equivalent benefits of what you’ve paid.
Now we poking around at people asking a question to satisfy their natural human curiosity ? Ik you probably had bad day and that doesn't mean others should deserve one ffs
Not being able to express myself exactly like I want to. Gets better over time though but never the same as in your native language.
Can you ever get to a point where you can truly express yourself as easily and fluently as you do in your native language? Even after years, it seems like you either stop progressing altogether or make very small progress as time goes on.
Honestly english isn't even my native language but I can express myself way better in the former. I believe that's because growing up I always talked about my feelings or the heavy stuff only in english so maybe it can be achieved with other languages too who knows.
I've heard this a lot but I've never believed it. Just because someone is educated in English and finds it easier to talk about technical and academic stuff in English, that doesn't mean they're "more fluent in English than in their native language". They just don't understand the intricacies of a foreign language and fail to navigate them how a native speaker would. Not to mention, correct grammar is not enough, you need to use idiomatic and natural language. Once you put them among native speakers to talk about various things, you quickly realise they use unidiomatic language, unnatural phrasing and fail to express themselves as intricately and easily as how a native speaker would.
No offence but I've come across a lot of people who wanted to brag about how good their English was and it turned out that their English wasn't even good, let alone "better" than their native language. If their English is really better than their native language and their English isn't even good, how bad can they be at speaking their native language?
I'm not saying you're overestimating yourself, I'm just saying I've come across a lot of people who were like this, especially non-native English speakers.
I have many students who immigrated to the US or have been going to school here for years, and they've developed near-native fluency. And since they've been going to school here, their academic English is a lot better than the equivalent in the home language.
Sorry I grew up in an English speaking environment and my parents gave me a lot of shit if I spoke my native language to the point I cannot even count in them. So I do think I would much rather speak in english not only of the academic and technical stuff but also for therapy which is also the language I use during therapy for that matter where I guess I'm supposed to express myself. I also don't remember actually "learning" english. If I'm able to achieve this level in Italian I'll gladly take down my comment lol
What do you mean by English-speaking environment? Did your parents speak to you in English? Did you receive a lot of native English input growing up? If so, you're a native English speaker. You shouldn't have said it's not your native language.
Though, parents passing down a non-native language to their kids means they're also passing down their grammatical errors, non-native constructions, etc but that doesn't mean the kids don't have a native language. They still do.
Yes, you can get to the point when you can express everything in your TL. You don't have to stop progressing, but it requires some effort.
This hits so hard. I'll know exactly what I want to say but then have to settle for some watered down version that doesn't capture what I actually meant. It's like being trapped in your own head sometimes
Keep speaking, listening, and reading. Gradually you'll find the most effective way to express yourself after doing it wrong a few times haha
Memory like a sieve. A rusted-out sieve.
Access to material at my level. A common struggle unless you study one of the popular languages.
What language do you study ?
Cantonese. Fine now when I can use native material but I was stuck in intermediate hell for years!
I am still in the intermediate hell!!! T_T
it's always either 你好, 唔該 or full-fledged modern youtubers speech
and I once saw Cantonese in one AI language learning app - and it was standard Chinese read with all the 是 and 不, read in a way those characters would be read in Cantonese. that was such a scam! but here are the small languages for you :(((
Disney+ has quite a few children's shows and cartoon movies dubbed in Cantonese. I found that quite helpful - you can first watch in Cantonese, then Cantonese with subtitles in standard chinese to compare the difference, then in English. I squeezed everything I could from those shows! Also, sadly, you kind of have to learn to read standard chinese at some point. Once you read well enough to read subtitles in real time things really change because you can watch HK movies and still understand it all even if the Cantonese gets a bit hairy (like in triad movies).
dang, I had an offer for Disney+ subscription some time ago, I did not use it because I do not watch movies usually....
I am learning standard Chinese and Mandarin at the same time. I even registered Duolingo with Chinese interface for learning some Cantonese :)) (there is no Cantonese in English Duolingo, only if the first language is Chinese). but it's also pretty basic stuff....
recently I found these two books written in Cantonese. they are not study books, but the entries are short, and for what I can see quite understandable. I have only glanced on a couple of topics. providing a ton of information about the culture too!
https://www.hktvmall.com/hktv/en/main/eslite-bookstore/s/P0007001/Toys-%26-Books/Toys-%26-Books/Books/Fiction-%26-Literature/Popular/%E5%BB%A3%E6%9D%B1%E8%A9%B1%E6%BD%AE%E8%AA%9E%E5%94%94%E6%AD%A21000%E5%B9%B4/p/P0007001_S_2711728918000
https://www.hktvmall.com/hktv/en/main/eslite-bookstore/s/P0007001/Toys-%26-Books/Toys-%26-Books/Books/Language-Learning/Chinese-Language/%E5%BB%A3%E6%9D%B1%E8%A9%B1%E8%AE%80%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E6%AD%B7%E5%8F%B2%E7%B3%BB%E5%88%971%E9%80%9A%E7%94%A8%E5%BB%A3%E6%9D%B1%E8%A9%B1-%E8%AE%80%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E8%A1%A3%E9%A3%9F%E4%BD%8F%E8%A1%8C%E5%8F%B2/p/P0007001_S_2711706246002
How did you overcome it ?
People responding back to me in English.
Learning and not forgetting the vocab. I can easily remember grammar, I can imitate phonetics after some time, but vocab. Because of that I can't express myself
Do you know why you can't remember? Is it because you don't practice ? Have tried using tools like Anki or anything else ?
I'm actually actively trying to use Anki properly, but sometimes I can't hold a word I've learned more than for 2 weeks. And it's also true that I can't integrate my vocab in my daily speech, generally, because I have 2 major problems: mostly I'm a person, who prefers not to speak; and also sometimes vocab I've been learning is based on subject I rarely discuss. So I believe these are my main problems and I don't actually know what to do with that
https://www.reddit.com/r/languagelearning/s/LQNHvcaF4x Might interest you !
Finding a language partner that is serious to learn together :/
Looking for a solid Finnish Norwegian and Chinese partners.
Serious inquiries only.
Not being able to understand what is being spoken if it's at a fast pace. I feel like my comprehension lags behind.
Reading all the idiotic and misguided advice here on Reddit?
Memorize
Occasionally getting genders of words wrong and feeling like a dumdum
Always dedication really, I love learning languages in general so much but the individual language I'm learning will never hold my attention forever. I've been studying languages for like 4 or 5 years but I've only really successfully learnt two foreign languages (to a level of free self expression and understanding), I always go full speed for a few weeks, maybe a few months if I'm lucky but when the fuel runs out another language catches my eye and I go do that one. Idk I just lose all motivation for the one I was devoted to.
Totally feel you! How do you proceed to learn? Like what methods ?
Well I love scientific linguistics too, so I always give a lot of time to grammar because I love it, pronunciation too. The issue is I think that when these things are exhausted I end up feeling a bit bored just learning words - I still love it but it's not the same when the grammar's demystified.
I usually start a language with pronouns and basic verbs and nouns - for the purpose of like experimenting with the grammar, so I can use the words to test the grammatical rules myself idk. Then I just learn more and more words I don't know really hard to explain a method!
When I DO manage to keep going, eventually all my learning becomes input really, the language just sort of becomes a part of my life - I still talk and write but it doesn't feel like practice, just like using it!
I don't know if this is what you were asking me!! I hope I sort of hit the mark (:
Very interesting! Usually people don't like grammar but it can be interesting seeing it this way.
How do you learn words ?
Congrats on having learned 2 languages ! Which ones are they ?
I don't know really, I guess I hear them or look them up then I write them down and at the end of an hour I might have 20 down on a sheet so I'll just freely write sentences and talk to myself trying to incorporate those words.
How do you learn grammar and words?
(And thank you! The languages are Norwegian and French, at the minute I'm studying Russian and I plan on taking up Mandarin again soon (:, how about you?)
First I learn vocab, like lots of vocab to be more confident. I use langap.app which works really well to retain vocabulary if you like to visualize things in your head, they have a bank of mental images (not a lot, hope they add more) but you can create yours too (I'm doing that a lot)
Then I read easy texts and when I recognize the vocab I've learned but not the complete meaning of the sentence I look up for grammar
Maybe not the best technique but I like it !
Trop bien que tu aies appris le français ! (je suis français haha)
The languages I'm most consistent with are dutch and danish, but like you I've tried many (icelandic, Norwegian, swedish, Russian, italian, Portuguese)
Always the grammar.
Verb conjugations mostly
Pretty much everything.
For me, the vocabulary, there was a time when I was able to memorize a lot but now just no. Most of the time I feel lazy if I'm honest. It's the part of language learning I really hate. Other than that i rather enjoy grammar and stuff but finding a language partner or doing language exchange can be frustrating. Sometimes it feels like I'm just trying to put random words together which make no sense to me. And i feel like is there point, it's not like I'll remember all the words at once?
what to do with it.
I'm way too introverted to talk to random people about random stuff for practice (and I feel weird treating people as a practice pad), so I don't get fluent in any languages I learn.
I also tend to learn remote languages with no practical application. I've learned to understand Polish without having any Polish speakers around, so I can't talk to anyone, and also cannot share the stuff I read / listen / watch with anyone I know personally.
to be clear, I enjoy the process of learning, even for understanding only. but the question of human interaction is the frustrating one.
Knowing that it'll take a longgg time to actually be able to use the language like you would with your native language, depending on your dedication. Aswell as the motivation dips once in a while, that make you question why even bother with learning a new language
Being taught irrelevant terms. I try to learn some of the local language when I travel and can't stand it when apps assume all cultures are the same like everyone in the world eats fried eggs with rice.
speaking practice and not being able to comprehend a local
Being discouraged from speaking it with native speakers just because they want to practice English; learning past and future tense in Spanish.
I’ve been learning German since my youth and have spent about half my life living in Germany. My husband and my children are German, I completed a demanding degree there, and I work professionally with languages.
And yet, I still struggle with German articles.
People often say, “You just feel whether it’s der, die, or das.” My kids say that too. But I don’t feel it... or only very rarely. For certain words, I still have to look them up again and again, and it honestly drives me crazy sometimes. It feels like one of those things I may never fully internalize, no matter how long I live with the language.
For smaller languages, lack of content for beginners and intermediate learners.
For any language, lack of feedback on output (writing and speaking).
I have the same problem with Lithuanian as there’s not many free sources. Paying isn’t an option as investing in it wouldn’t get you any equivalent benefits of what you’ve paid.
The worst thing is when you’re too good for basic stuff but too bad for native content. It becomes so painstakingly slow to bridge that gap.
Knowing that is gonna help you how?
Where did I say I'm looking for help?
So what was the point of the post then? Just wasting data?
That's what you're doing
I'm also cutting you down to size.
If you have nothing else to do, poor you
It's a service to mankind.
Can you shut up? OP is right
Now we poking around at people asking a question to satisfy their natural human curiosity ? Ik you probably had bad day and that doesn't mean others should deserve one ffs
least socially inept redditor
You know, sometimes people just want to talk about their mutual hobby...