This - do not sign anything and make sure everything goes through your union, even the client requests. Your union will be able to see if they are piling on the difficult client to make you fail.
Just to be clear: if they ask you to resign, don’t. But if they plan on giving you severance and letting you go, just tell them you need to review the paperwork and don’t sign immediately.
I think you can't change their decision but you can benefit from actionable feedback. It's important to understand what exactly the clients complained about. Did you misinterpret requests, data, feedback? Did you deliver late, in the wrong format, etc. Or is it a lack of guidance and client management that's blamed on you? Make sure you can distinguish what you could eventually improve from what is structural in your agency and can't be changed.
One overarching theme is that the writing is in my voice, not theirs.
Sometimes they don't like how I write certain sentences, stylistic choices. Looking back at past work, I can see where I can fact-check better for my particularly sciency clients.
The worst review I ever got back was in October, when a client said my work sounded very inexperienced and written by AI. My manager looked at that copy they complained about and said my work was no way near that bad and that clients can get hyperbolic when they're upset, but encouraged me to see where I can improve.
That client hasn't complained since, but the issue is that another one now is. Some months ago, another client was really unhappy with my work, so they temporarily reassigned it to another writer. I later caught up with that writer on what she did to get them happy, and she straight up told me, "use what they've already written", such as copy on their website or their past materials. I told my manager that, there was a plan to get that client back to me, but I think that's been put on pause since my other clients are now complaining so she's been hesitant to re-assign them back to me.
Yes, ultimately it is on me. After closely reviewing my work, my plan is to tell my boss that 1) I've realized my approach to my writing has gotten unintentionally formulaic, 2) this was aggravated by me becoming increasingly anxious about mounting client complaints. I've been trying to improve assignment to assignment, but I needed to take a step back and take a big picture look at my work, and 3) my best plan of action is to give myself more time with each assignment to redraft several more times to get copy in tip-top shape.
We also will be looking at one example of my writing, along with the edited versions from the client, to compare and contrast together tomorrow.
Okay...well I don't think they're planning to fire you if they're going to do all that. Maybe a PIP. But just have an actionable plan to improve ready.
Aren't PIPs just mainly used as an excuse to pretend to work with the employee to improve performance, but in reality it's really just a long drawn out way to fire them?
I thought it was common knowledge that most PIPs are BS.
My guess is that they're going to use all of OP's work and feed it into an AI to keep the narrative's "voice" and fire them using client unhappiness as the excuse.
It's great that you acknowledge your shortcomings and have a plan to improve, but I feel like you're shouldering a lot of the blame. Don't you guys have review processes and editors and senior people who could help with voice, tone, style, and even quality control? Mentoring and coaching are important tools to grow writers. I'm coming from a director's perspective. As a team lead, I'd take personally negative feedback on what my team delivered. I'd see it as a failure to help my writers produce excellent work. Perhaps ask for more support for development if at all available.
Honestly, it doesn’t quite sound like you’re getting fired. It’s hard to tell for sure since we can’t know exactly what’s happening, but they wouldn’t be meeting with you for a real review if they were firing you. If they do plan to fire you, there’s nothing you can do about it.
It could be a made-up pretext to meet, though. But it does sound like they’re not happy with your work. Are you getting clear, actionable feedback?
If they do fire you, keep in mind that in many states a ‘forced resignation’ still qualifies you for unemployment. I’d look up how unemployment works where you are (or post in r/AskHR about it). People in this sub go crazy telling people to make sure to get fired, but it’s not that black and white.
Have you identified barriers to you reaching your performance targets? As a manager, it’s reassuring to know that your direct report has an understanding of what’s getting in the way and a plan to correct.
After closely reviewing my work, my plan is to tell my boss that 1) I've realized my approach to my writing has gotten unintentionally formulaic, 2) this was aggravated by me becoming increasingly anxious about mounting client complaints. I've been trying to improve assignment to assignment, but I needed to take a step back and take a big picture look at my work, and 3) my best plan of action is to give myself more time with each assignment to redraft several more times to get copy in tip-top shape.
We also will be looking at one example of my writing, along with the edited versions from the client, to compare and contrast together tomorrow.
Sounds great. I’d open with that- humility and an eagerness to improve will go a long way.
I’d also speak to my supervisor about some method for quality control if possible, so that work is properly vetted before landing with the client until things get better for you.
For one client, we came up with a plan for my account to review my first draft first and to discuss it with me before sending to the client. I'm going to suggest to do that across the board with everyone.
I’m sitting here wondering what is this writing all about. This whole thing reminds me one person see’s it one way, but the other doesn’t see it that way. It sounds like your trying to perform and please too many people however they see it at one time. Maybe you need some guidelines coming from management on what they expect at a minimum. On the other hand to get the work and be able to have a job, you have to please the clients. Can they assign you clients that your doing okay with and assign others to the other clients?
Don’t let them make you resign or give you papers that say you resign. That’s a common trick they do. It is NOT better for you to resign, it is just saving them money.
If you want to read into things, look at the meeting invite. Are you and the hiring manager the only ones invited and not HR or their manager? If so,that’s not so bad. HR or a manager’s manager might just be on another invite for the same time & location, but IMO companies aren’t that smart. When did you get the meeting invite? If it was scheduled last week, I personally wouldn’t worry about it. If they are planning to lay you off, they will schedule a last minute touch base with no notice. When I got laid off last, I got literally less than 2 hours notice between the meeting invite and when it happened. The time before that? I got no meeting, just a form letter from HR to my personal inbox. When my partner was let go, same story. No notice. How long is the meeting? If it’s 30 min less, that can be concerning. If it’s an hour, that sounds like they actually want to review your work.
If they lay you off, let them get through their spiel get the details about severance (if any), the reason for termination, ask about ongoing health coverage, and get clarity if they are going to challenge any unemployment claims or not.
I personally would go in thinking it’s a genuine critique and they are trying to make you better. It’s way cheaper and easier usually to train and improve a current employee up than to fire them and hire a new one. Depending your role and level, it could cost the company 5-10k to replace you (on top of any severance and unemployment benefits) to upwards of 2x your salary (if it’s a complex role). The company doesn’t want to replace you if it can help it. Hear the manager out, see how you can be better, and most importantly put in a plan for regular check-ins to check on your progress. Heck, I would even propose that you work closely with your manager and do pre-client check-ins on your work. Then that way it’s a team effort and they have signed off on it and they think it looks good too. That way if a client continues to complain, it’s not just you but also your manager in the hot seat. As a manager I’ve done this multiple times…this helps develop my employees skills, makes my employees see they are not alone (and not being thrown to the wolves), and I get a better look at what’s happening. It could be the clients or account executives that are being unreasonable and crap like this rolls downhill. Also as a manager and expert in the space, my skill is selling my work, walking through the though process, thoughtfully receiving feedback and quelling any client concerns. A client will very rarely like you work the first time or even second or third.
It's a 1:1 between my boss and I that we mutually agreed last week to schedule for tomorrow. I put an hour on her calendar to discuss my work.
It’s way cheaper and easier usually to train and improve a current employee up than to fire them and hire a new one.
This makes sense, but...wouldn't it would be easy to drop me and replace another ready-to-go midlevel writer, especially with tons of hungry candidates in this crazy job market? I'm also giving them lots of headaches lately.
I think you’re underestimating just how much it costs to replace an employee. Let’s say they did fire you for performance reasons, they’ll probably fork over a bunch of cash in unemployment, cobra, and severance. Then there’s the interim costs while your position is open. They either need to give your work to another writer and they either need to pay them overtime to cover it or turn down work (won’t happen) until they replace you. Then there’s the hiring, it’ll cost them 10k at least to recruit and hire someone. That’s recruiter time and salary, sign on bonuses, and then the loss of productivity while the new person gets onboarded. ‘
The way you describe it, I don’t see you being fired here. You also put it on her calendar, not the other way around. I think they really do want to help you. Get an action plan put together for improvement. I gotta stress, don’t document non-actionable things. Don’t discuss “listening better” or “repeating things back to the client”. Those are nice, but won’t help you.
Review the creative briefs provided to you by the project manager or lead.
Review the aspirational things the client may have provided (they liked this ad or want this type of voice from this and)
Review what you documented from meetings with the client.
Look at the work delivered together and see how it could have been better.
Then when that’s done, get an action plan.
1. In the next couple of projects, would the manager be way more involved?
2. Invite your manager to your client meetings.
3. When you get the creative brief, review it with manager and be proactive and show some pre work. “Based on the meeting, creative briefs here’s some taglines, headline, examples I came up with.
4. Manager can tell you right away if you’re on the right track or can course correct right away.
5. Manager attends review sessions with client to hear feedback for themselves.
6. Deliver final copy.
This way there is NO room for the manager to blame you for anything here. Any manager worth their salt should be willing to do this because their job is to help develop you but not write the copy for you.
There’s a chance that this isn’t your fault at all. A review like this could uncover that the project manager or account executive is dropping the ball and not adequately briefing you or providing you incomplete information. Or the client is moving the goal posts after the fact. Or something you’re genuinely not doing a good job of.’
We have a meeting tomorrow to closely review my writing and discuss how I can improve
This sounds like they're planning on putting you on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan). Depending on the company culture, this may be a formality or they may be trying to keep you, but you won't know until you see it.
If the the goals are specific and achievable, then they probably want to keep you around. If they're generic or unrealistic then it's just them checking the box before firing you. Either way, it's probably worth having a union rep sit in on the meeting.
Side note: If you're covered by a union contract, the contract should spell out the steps required for termination, and they probably haven't gone through all the steps (yet).
Are you taking any courses to maybe improve your writing? I hope you're not discouraged by what's going on. Sometimes we just need refreshers to improve our writing
A few years ago, my husband was hired because the person who originally held the position my husband was hired for knew he was about to get fired so he went on sick leave and stayed out for a long time. That person never came back, though I’m not sure whether he was officially fired or if he resigned.
Fast forward to this year, and another company was ready to hire my husband because the person in the position my husband applied for was out on sick leave and it seemed like he may not return to the position. Though in this case the guy was really sick but he also did have performance issues at work. Anyway, apparently the guy caught wind that he was about to be replaced by my husband so he called on the day my husband was supposed to receive his offer letter and said he was coming back. So my husband didn’t get hired but one of the senior managers told my husband they checked with legal and they have to wait some time before they can fire the guy. It’s crazy out there!
Nothing you say will change anything if they have their minds made up. Dont sign anything and collect unemployment until you cant
If you’re in a union make sure you have your union rep present.
This - do not sign anything and make sure everything goes through your union, even the client requests. Your union will be able to see if they are piling on the difficult client to make you fail.
What does this mean? I'm unfamiliar with the whole layoff/firing process.
Just to be clear: if they ask you to resign, don’t. But if they plan on giving you severance and letting you go, just tell them you need to review the paperwork and don’t sign immediately.
And then what? Never sign it?
No, then you review it carefully when you have time and aren’t dealing with the emotions of being let go. And negotiate if there’s room for it.
It means force them to fire you. Don't sign anything that says you resign.
Gotcha. What could I exactly say in response if they request (especially verbally over Zoom, I work remote) that I resign?
“I’m not resigning” full stop. Silence is your biggest play in negotiations.
I think you can't change their decision but you can benefit from actionable feedback. It's important to understand what exactly the clients complained about. Did you misinterpret requests, data, feedback? Did you deliver late, in the wrong format, etc. Or is it a lack of guidance and client management that's blamed on you? Make sure you can distinguish what you could eventually improve from what is structural in your agency and can't be changed.
Good luck!
One overarching theme is that the writing is in my voice, not theirs.
Sometimes they don't like how I write certain sentences, stylistic choices. Looking back at past work, I can see where I can fact-check better for my particularly sciency clients.
The worst review I ever got back was in October, when a client said my work sounded very inexperienced and written by AI. My manager looked at that copy they complained about and said my work was no way near that bad and that clients can get hyperbolic when they're upset, but encouraged me to see where I can improve.
That client hasn't complained since, but the issue is that another one now is. Some months ago, another client was really unhappy with my work, so they temporarily reassigned it to another writer. I later caught up with that writer on what she did to get them happy, and she straight up told me, "use what they've already written", such as copy on their website or their past materials. I told my manager that, there was a plan to get that client back to me, but I think that's been put on pause since my other clients are now complaining so she's been hesitant to re-assign them back to me.
It seems like you need to figure out how to improve your performance. If you're having the same recurring problem repeatedly, the problem is you.
Yes, ultimately it is on me. After closely reviewing my work, my plan is to tell my boss that 1) I've realized my approach to my writing has gotten unintentionally formulaic, 2) this was aggravated by me becoming increasingly anxious about mounting client complaints. I've been trying to improve assignment to assignment, but I needed to take a step back and take a big picture look at my work, and 3) my best plan of action is to give myself more time with each assignment to redraft several more times to get copy in tip-top shape.
We also will be looking at one example of my writing, along with the edited versions from the client, to compare and contrast together tomorrow.
Okay...well I don't think they're planning to fire you if they're going to do all that. Maybe a PIP. But just have an actionable plan to improve ready.
Yeah how OP takes this coaching and criticism will be big.
If its a larger comp HR would want them to have more documentation/coaching before canning him anyway.
Do your best OP, keep and open mind, use the union, and let them fire you if it doesnt work out.
Aren't PIPs just mainly used as an excuse to pretend to work with the employee to improve performance, but in reality it's really just a long drawn out way to fire them?
I thought it was common knowledge that most PIPs are BS.
My guess is that they're going to use all of OP's work and feed it into an AI to keep the narrative's "voice" and fire them using client unhappiness as the excuse.
It's great that you acknowledge your shortcomings and have a plan to improve, but I feel like you're shouldering a lot of the blame. Don't you guys have review processes and editors and senior people who could help with voice, tone, style, and even quality control? Mentoring and coaching are important tools to grow writers. I'm coming from a director's perspective. As a team lead, I'd take personally negative feedback on what my team delivered. I'd see it as a failure to help my writers produce excellent work. Perhaps ask for more support for development if at all available.
Honestly, it doesn’t quite sound like you’re getting fired. It’s hard to tell for sure since we can’t know exactly what’s happening, but they wouldn’t be meeting with you for a real review if they were firing you. If they do plan to fire you, there’s nothing you can do about it.
It could be a made-up pretext to meet, though. But it does sound like they’re not happy with your work. Are you getting clear, actionable feedback?
If they do fire you, keep in mind that in many states a ‘forced resignation’ still qualifies you for unemployment. I’d look up how unemployment works where you are (or post in r/AskHR about it). People in this sub go crazy telling people to make sure to get fired, but it’s not that black and white.
Have you identified barriers to you reaching your performance targets? As a manager, it’s reassuring to know that your direct report has an understanding of what’s getting in the way and a plan to correct.
After closely reviewing my work, my plan is to tell my boss that 1) I've realized my approach to my writing has gotten unintentionally formulaic, 2) this was aggravated by me becoming increasingly anxious about mounting client complaints. I've been trying to improve assignment to assignment, but I needed to take a step back and take a big picture look at my work, and 3) my best plan of action is to give myself more time with each assignment to redraft several more times to get copy in tip-top shape.
We also will be looking at one example of my writing, along with the edited versions from the client, to compare and contrast together tomorrow.
Sounds great. I’d open with that- humility and an eagerness to improve will go a long way.
I’d also speak to my supervisor about some method for quality control if possible, so that work is properly vetted before landing with the client until things get better for you.
For one client, we came up with a plan for my account to review my first draft first and to discuss it with me before sending to the client. I'm going to suggest to do that across the board with everyone.
Smart. Acknowledge that you are aware it means more work for your boss, but that you plan on it being a temporary measure. Good luck!
I’m sitting here wondering what is this writing all about. This whole thing reminds me one person see’s it one way, but the other doesn’t see it that way. It sounds like your trying to perform and please too many people however they see it at one time. Maybe you need some guidelines coming from management on what they expect at a minimum. On the other hand to get the work and be able to have a job, you have to please the clients. Can they assign you clients that your doing okay with and assign others to the other clients?
First of all, don’t get fired. That’s not good for your money making prospects
Don’t let them make you resign or give you papers that say you resign. That’s a common trick they do. It is NOT better for you to resign, it is just saving them money.
If you want to read into things, look at the meeting invite. Are you and the hiring manager the only ones invited and not HR or their manager? If so,that’s not so bad. HR or a manager’s manager might just be on another invite for the same time & location, but IMO companies aren’t that smart. When did you get the meeting invite? If it was scheduled last week, I personally wouldn’t worry about it. If they are planning to lay you off, they will schedule a last minute touch base with no notice. When I got laid off last, I got literally less than 2 hours notice between the meeting invite and when it happened. The time before that? I got no meeting, just a form letter from HR to my personal inbox. When my partner was let go, same story. No notice. How long is the meeting? If it’s 30 min less, that can be concerning. If it’s an hour, that sounds like they actually want to review your work.
If they lay you off, let them get through their spiel get the details about severance (if any), the reason for termination, ask about ongoing health coverage, and get clarity if they are going to challenge any unemployment claims or not.
I personally would go in thinking it’s a genuine critique and they are trying to make you better. It’s way cheaper and easier usually to train and improve a current employee up than to fire them and hire a new one. Depending your role and level, it could cost the company 5-10k to replace you (on top of any severance and unemployment benefits) to upwards of 2x your salary (if it’s a complex role). The company doesn’t want to replace you if it can help it. Hear the manager out, see how you can be better, and most importantly put in a plan for regular check-ins to check on your progress. Heck, I would even propose that you work closely with your manager and do pre-client check-ins on your work. Then that way it’s a team effort and they have signed off on it and they think it looks good too. That way if a client continues to complain, it’s not just you but also your manager in the hot seat. As a manager I’ve done this multiple times…this helps develop my employees skills, makes my employees see they are not alone (and not being thrown to the wolves), and I get a better look at what’s happening. It could be the clients or account executives that are being unreasonable and crap like this rolls downhill. Also as a manager and expert in the space, my skill is selling my work, walking through the though process, thoughtfully receiving feedback and quelling any client concerns. A client will very rarely like you work the first time or even second or third.
It's a 1:1 between my boss and I that we mutually agreed last week to schedule for tomorrow. I put an hour on her calendar to discuss my work.
This makes sense, but...wouldn't it would be easy to drop me and replace another ready-to-go midlevel writer, especially with tons of hungry candidates in this crazy job market? I'm also giving them lots of headaches lately.
I think you’re underestimating just how much it costs to replace an employee. Let’s say they did fire you for performance reasons, they’ll probably fork over a bunch of cash in unemployment, cobra, and severance. Then there’s the interim costs while your position is open. They either need to give your work to another writer and they either need to pay them overtime to cover it or turn down work (won’t happen) until they replace you. Then there’s the hiring, it’ll cost them 10k at least to recruit and hire someone. That’s recruiter time and salary, sign on bonuses, and then the loss of productivity while the new person gets onboarded. ‘
The way you describe it, I don’t see you being fired here. You also put it on her calendar, not the other way around. I think they really do want to help you. Get an action plan put together for improvement. I gotta stress, don’t document non-actionable things. Don’t discuss “listening better” or “repeating things back to the client”. Those are nice, but won’t help you.
Then when that’s done, get an action plan. 1. In the next couple of projects, would the manager be way more involved? 2. Invite your manager to your client meetings. 3. When you get the creative brief, review it with manager and be proactive and show some pre work. “Based on the meeting, creative briefs here’s some taglines, headline, examples I came up with. 4. Manager can tell you right away if you’re on the right track or can course correct right away. 5. Manager attends review sessions with client to hear feedback for themselves. 6. Deliver final copy.
This way there is NO room for the manager to blame you for anything here. Any manager worth their salt should be willing to do this because their job is to help develop you but not write the copy for you.
There’s a chance that this isn’t your fault at all. A review like this could uncover that the project manager or account executive is dropping the ball and not adequately briefing you or providing you incomplete information. Or the client is moving the goal posts after the fact. Or something you’re genuinely not doing a good job of.’
Thank you so fucking much!
This sounds like they're planning on putting you on a PIP (Performance Improvement Plan). Depending on the company culture, this may be a formality or they may be trying to keep you, but you won't know until you see it.
If the the goals are specific and achievable, then they probably want to keep you around. If they're generic or unrealistic then it's just them checking the box before firing you. Either way, it's probably worth having a union rep sit in on the meeting.
Side note: If you're covered by a union contract, the contract should spell out the steps required for termination, and they probably haven't gone through all the steps (yet).
You've got about 90 days till fired.
Tell them you have an improvement plan that uses AI.
If they made a decision it’s done.
Are you taking any courses to maybe improve your writing? I hope you're not discouraged by what's going on. Sometimes we just need refreshers to improve our writing
contact the union
Read what you wrote. Consider the possibility you may not be good at writing.
Sick leave. They can’t fire you.
A few years ago, my husband was hired because the person who originally held the position my husband was hired for knew he was about to get fired so he went on sick leave and stayed out for a long time. That person never came back, though I’m not sure whether he was officially fired or if he resigned.
Fast forward to this year, and another company was ready to hire my husband because the person in the position my husband applied for was out on sick leave and it seemed like he may not return to the position. Though in this case the guy was really sick but he also did have performance issues at work. Anyway, apparently the guy caught wind that he was about to be replaced by my husband so he called on the day my husband was supposed to receive his offer letter and said he was coming back. So my husband didn’t get hired but one of the senior managers told my husband they checked with legal and they have to wait some time before they can fire the guy. It’s crazy out there!
Tell you are sick and you can't go
Idk dude, 🤞 luck