Of course, if they're going to be culled due to overpopulation, the meat should be made use of, and is it really a good idea to start giving pills to wild animals.
Everyone always uses yellowstone as an example to why it could work here. Yellowstone and Ireland are two very different place's. You can walk for hundreds of miles in yellowstone without seeing any sign of human life, in Ireland you can't walk 5 minutes up the road without seeing a post office, church, or pub.
Civilisation in ireland is just too widespread around the island for us to successfully live side by side with wolves. Our society's attitude towards respecting wildlife and nature also needs to basically do a 180° turn in order for it to work.
I lived in wolf territory in Europe. 99% of people never see them from what i got, farmers hardly take much mesures. Wolves that exist now, are more shy because by evolution, the more ballsy ones got into conflict with humans then died. Saying that , they are far more agrarian than pastoral compared to us in europe. Probs our cattle are largely safe due size, sheep far less so but that's a dying trade.
Also, we are less rural than our ancestors so there is less civilisation in some ways, but overall , we have still quite a wide rural spread by most European standards. Hard to say if they have the space or not, dongeal , mayo and wicklow for example are quite empty for massive sections.
Despite that, I'd still agree with you, with modern bureacray and interest groups , can't see it happening . Too much factors to factor they'd never get around to 💁♀️ saying that if they were illegally reintroduced like beavers in Scotland, I can see the same bureaucracy bring ineffective in culing them.
Also what you on about, glenvenagh famously empty due to english land clearance. Errigal to muckish area is practically . Then Glenties / Fintown area , some valleys in the last 10 year lost all inhabitants.
As for sheep, dead trade , its kept alive by subsidies for the most part , hence why as I said before ,some valley don't have people living there , all mountainous land , only sheep to make a living but its gone , so are the people also
This comment / post was removed because it violates the following sub rule:
[R3] Argue in Good Faith
Everyone is here of their own volition to discuss the topic of Irish Politics. People are not here to be caught in ruthless vendetta’s of spiraling fallacies and bad faith arguments.
State your intent clearly, provide evidence to the point you want to make and engage with others arguments in much the same manner.
Trolling, Baiting, Flaming, etc are not allowed.
Excessive debate etiquette in place of an argument will be considered bad faith.
Transparent Agenda Spamming i.e. consistently posting exclusively about the same topic, will also fall under this rule.
It would if deer were the only pray that wolves hunt. Unfortunately there's a lot more tasty snacks for them that aren't as quick as deer and easier to catch, so it would actually create more ecological problems than what it would solve.
Ecology and wildlife aside, there just isnt enough wilderness in ireland for wolves to live here without both them effecting our way of life, or us effecting theirs.
Would work grand, if the state purchased large amounts of land to re-wild, to join up national parks. There will be by-kills as they escape and kill the odd sheep, but yeah, you need to turn Ireland from a land of farms and gardens into areas of wilderness.
Only way that works is it you buy out homes and farms, and eradicate towns. Which Irish people have been able to take down governments over.
The government buying out thousands of farms to link up our national parks?
Imagine how that would go down when whole the country faces the largest housing crisis its ever seen, or while all of our hospitals are stuffed to the gills and trying to work a broken system.
Neither of those are a lack of state money, mind. And you cannot stop spending money on other important services, just because essential ones are imperfect. The state only recently bought land to extend national parks in Kerry, which was a fantastic idea....though, they do allow sheep grazing on them, so they are technically state owned farms.
I mean I can see why people are against their towns being eradicated. You’d have to pay them a significant amount of money, enough to make them wealthy and afford a better house in order to convince them.
Well, I'm not suggesting you place your wolf part over Cork city. But it's very hard to find counties that don't have some towns. And yes, moving people toward towns, away from homes exposed to wolves, would be great.
I personally think it’s sinful not to reintroduce them. They were once native but were hunted to extinction (like many other species). We, as a species, have taken over the entirety of the island and wild nature has been an afterthought.
God forbid an animal, that was once here, inconvenienced anyone. And if it does it must be exterminated!!
Where are these Wolves going to live? The only legislation for wildlife and biodiversity o was to see is the dismantling of for-profit semi-state bodies that have any hand in land management or nature. Coillte being top of the list.
Would love to see wolves returned but lynx are the better starting point and should be pushed for asap. Beautiful creatures and less likely to be met with initial resistance.
Why not just lynx? I’m all for rewilding apex predators but the wolf as the first apex predator reintroduced into Ireland wouldn’t go down well I’d imagine.
They’re native predators and love forests. They’re a lot shyer than wolfs and would be safer for people walking near them. If you introduced the wolf back there would have to be education around protecting yourself, people would be less inclined to go into forests etc.
I'm not sure how they would manage wolves being reintroduced. They are incredibly harmless but their reputation is anything but. They also require large stretches or land to roam on which we don't really have anymore.
it would be a major success if they were brought back
Beavers would make more sense in terms of reshaping landscapes, but it remains a matter of fierce debate as to whether they have ever been indigenous here.
Bord Bia should be pumping out ads highlighting venison as nice game to try and stimulate the market for it.
Dont understand peoples aversion to it. If you gave most people a venison burger, they wouldn't notice any difference from an ordinary burger.
I’d argue it’s much more ethical
Whats more ethical?
Venison burgers
Of course, if they're going to be culled due to overpopulation, the meat should be made use of, and is it really a good idea to start giving pills to wild animals.
Do most people have an aversion to it? I’d say most people would like to try it but have never seen it for sale anywhere
Yup venison is amazing and we should eat more of it here
There's plenty of market for what's slaughtered we only have a few thousand head in the country
Yeah its not like venison is cheap. Seems to be plenty of market for whats culled (and safe, a lot of culled venison is not).
Not cheap at all, in fact it's deer ...
https://media1.tenor.com/m/9pWSTfhSEVgAAAAd/jokehusky-husky.gif
Wild unadulterated meat without any prohibited hormones!
This isn’t America
There's nowhere near enough wild mammals left anywhere on earth to contribute meaningfully to the populations diet.
The old wolf argument rears it's head once again.
Everyone always uses yellowstone as an example to why it could work here. Yellowstone and Ireland are two very different place's. You can walk for hundreds of miles in yellowstone without seeing any sign of human life, in Ireland you can't walk 5 minutes up the road without seeing a post office, church, or pub.
Civilisation in ireland is just too widespread around the island for us to successfully live side by side with wolves. Our society's attitude towards respecting wildlife and nature also needs to basically do a 180° turn in order for it to work.
I lived in wolf territory in Europe. 99% of people never see them from what i got, farmers hardly take much mesures. Wolves that exist now, are more shy because by evolution, the more ballsy ones got into conflict with humans then died. Saying that , they are far more agrarian than pastoral compared to us in europe. Probs our cattle are largely safe due size, sheep far less so but that's a dying trade.
Also, we are less rural than our ancestors so there is less civilisation in some ways, but overall , we have still quite a wide rural spread by most European standards. Hard to say if they have the space or not, dongeal , mayo and wicklow for example are quite empty for massive sections.
Despite that, I'd still agree with you, with modern bureacray and interest groups , can't see it happening . Too much factors to factor they'd never get around to 💁♀️ saying that if they were illegally reintroduced like beavers in Scotland, I can see the same bureaucracy bring ineffective in culing them.
Donegal is not empty. There are houses everywhere in the countryside, even in the mountainous bogs. And sheep graze every square inch of this county
Said 'Quite empty'
Are you this pedantic?
Also what you on about, glenvenagh famously empty due to english land clearance. Errigal to muckish area is practically . Then Glenties / Fintown area , some valleys in the last 10 year lost all inhabitants.
As for sheep, dead trade , its kept alive by subsidies for the most part , hence why as I said before ,some valley don't have people living there , all mountainous land , only sheep to make a living but its gone , so are the people also
There is absolutely not enough "empty" space in Wicklow for wolves to roam.
[removed]
This comment / post was removed because it violates the following sub rule:
[R2] Respect Others
Debate the topic, not the person.
Personal insults, abusive or hostile language — whether aimed at other users or public figures — will not be tolerated.
You can challenge ideas, but you must do so constructively.
[removed]
Thats you, i disagreed with the commenter of the thread to a degree, and backed my assertions without claiming definitive knowledge of the topic
You just added nothing but arrogance
Theres your problem
Amazing gotcha , wow he played the reverse card
:L
This comment / post was removed because it violates the following sub rule:
[R3] Argue in Good Faith
Everyone is here of their own volition to discuss the topic of Irish Politics. People are not here to be caught in ruthless vendetta’s of spiraling fallacies and bad faith arguments.
State your intent clearly, provide evidence to the point you want to make and engage with others arguments in much the same manner.
Trolling, Baiting, Flaming, etc are not allowed.
Excessive debate etiquette in place of an argument will be considered bad faith.
Transparent Agenda Spamming i.e. consistently posting exclusively about the same topic, will also fall under this rule.
This really seems like a problem that solves itself if the wolves are aggressive enough
It would if deer were the only pray that wolves hunt. Unfortunately there's a lot more tasty snacks for them that aren't as quick as deer and easier to catch, so it would actually create more ecological problems than what it would solve.
Ecology and wildlife aside, there just isnt enough wilderness in ireland for wolves to live here without both them effecting our way of life, or us effecting theirs.
Government would have to be willing to compensate farmers for animals killed or injured, foxes already kill lambs they would be easy prey for a wolf
Would work grand, if the state purchased large amounts of land to re-wild, to join up national parks. There will be by-kills as they escape and kill the odd sheep, but yeah, you need to turn Ireland from a land of farms and gardens into areas of wilderness.
Only way that works is it you buy out homes and farms, and eradicate towns. Which Irish people have been able to take down governments over.
The government buying out thousands of farms to link up our national parks?
Imagine how that would go down when whole the country faces the largest housing crisis its ever seen, or while all of our hospitals are stuffed to the gills and trying to work a broken system.
Neither of those are a lack of state money, mind. And you cannot stop spending money on other important services, just because essential ones are imperfect. The state only recently bought land to extend national parks in Kerry, which was a fantastic idea....though, they do allow sheep grazing on them, so they are technically state owned farms.
I mean I can see why people are against their towns being eradicated. You’d have to pay them a significant amount of money, enough to make them wealthy and afford a better house in order to convince them.
We need to eradicate one off housing, not towns
Well, I'm not suggesting you place your wolf part over Cork city. But it's very hard to find counties that don't have some towns. And yes, moving people toward towns, away from homes exposed to wolves, would be great.
I personally think it’s sinful not to reintroduce them. They were once native but were hunted to extinction (like many other species). We, as a species, have taken over the entirety of the island and wild nature has been an afterthought.
God forbid an animal, that was once here, inconvenienced anyone. And if it does it must be exterminated!!
Makes no sense. How are we going to train deer how to put on johnnies?
Same way as they trained us - show them how it rolls onto a banana.
Where are these Wolves going to live? The only legislation for wildlife and biodiversity o was to see is the dismantling of for-profit semi-state bodies that have any hand in land management or nature. Coillte being top of the list.
It's crazy how bad Coillte are at forestry. If they did nothing, they would be doing a better job than they are now
By design.
And how many pricks in D4 would think they could get away with shooting one
Not as many as lads from rougher parts of Dublin and around the country who do the majority of hunting and blood sports.
Would love to see wolves returned but lynx are the better starting point and should be pushed for asap. Beautiful creatures and less likely to be met with initial resistance.
I think reforestation should be the number 1 objective if wolves are being seriously considered
Red deer not the issue , small invasive ones. They hide in sitka plantation, which is a double jeopardy
non mature lumber forest destory the ground when they fell
lumber forest spawn out the exact type of deer that tear up the ground
Collite make a ballz of everything
Why not just lynx? I’m all for rewilding apex predators but the wolf as the first apex predator reintroduced into Ireland wouldn’t go down well I’d imagine.
They’re native predators and love forests. They’re a lot shyer than wolfs and would be safer for people walking near them. If you introduced the wolf back there would have to be education around protecting yourself, people would be less inclined to go into forests etc.
Don't we have lynx already? I thought a bunch got loosed in the 80s?
Unfortunately not. Wild lynx went extinct here about 1300 years ago.
I'm not sure how they would manage wolves being reintroduced. They are incredibly harmless but their reputation is anything but. They also require large stretches or land to roam on which we don't really have anymore.
it would be a major success if they were brought back
Putting condoms on deers? Bit woke imo
I'm sure condoms will be hella difficult to get on with hooves. poor deer.
Beavers would make more sense in terms of reshaping landscapes, but it remains a matter of fierce debate as to whether they have ever been indigenous here.
Dear Johnny…
yesssss 🐺🐺🐺