Last month, in an anonymous briefing to the Sunday Times, a senior figure in the Irish Military Intelligence Service suggested that Irish academic links to China could pose a security risk.
“It can be hugely detrimental to the West if you empower them by educating them simply because they come to a university with funds. This can be hugely detrimental to the West if you teach them how to twist a knot to the left or right, which helps them to develop a weapon or military application,” the intelligence officer told the newspaper.
The ex-spook insulting Sunday Times readers' intelligence with how much he oversimplified this is very funny.
Given the type of technology china is producing, AI quantum computing space exploration etc i think its funny that we think we can teach the chinese something rather than the other way around...
Maybe a few of the boys near the border could teach them how to build a car bomb or improvised mortar, if they aren't dead or in nursing homes.
The Chinese students studying in Ireland are probably not smart / hardworking enough to get into the best Chinese universities and not wealthy enough to pay for the most prestigious American ones
I did a STEM masters a few years ago and half the class were Chinese. Some were really smart and went on to do Phds and others didn't have a word of english. (They all passed) ¯_ (ツ)_/¯ They said the UK was twice as expensive for a similar course which was a factor. Outside of medicine Irish universities are just a money racket for fleecing foreign students. In science and technology at this stage I doubt we have anything worth stealing, they are already living 20 years in the future.
I’m in college right now and for some modules we have quite a few Chinese students.
There’s no in between, they’re either the smartest people in the class, or their English is so basic that they can’t really say hello and they use ChatGPT to translate every lecture.
I didn’t mean to imply any Chinese students are thick or lazy, just university entry in china is probably insanely competitive. I’m sure they can more than keep up with Irish and other international students.
The ones who aren’t fluent in English yet probably will be soon and turn out to be just as bright as anyone else…
Eh "According to data from the Irish visa office, the number of visas issued to Chinese students for studying in Ireland reached 3,560 last year, the highest in a decade and a 10.52% increase compared to 2023." But I'm sure it's just propaganda.
Also yes China has some great universities but to act as though Ireland doesn't or that there's no Chinese students in Ireland when UCD literally has an entire academic school and building dedicated to both the learning of Mandarin and through Mandarin as well as to cater to Chinese students is just bizarre.
You said why would any Chinese top student come to Ireland? Are you seriously telling me none of those 3,000 or so students could be considered a top student? Also, yeah, it's a small number compared to the overall population of China, but you were acting as if basically no Chinese students are coming here to study. Also, how am I racist lol, I literally just gave you a figure and you immediately jump to that because you have no actual argument.
From talking to Chinese students cheating is a significant problem in their institutions so a qualification from a foreign institution is seen as more trustworthy.
Security issue is not really a thing, its just an issue the US highlighted years ago when many of their top universities let in Chinese students who returned to China bringing back expertise and knowledge which benefited Chinese research and industry, in particular key areas too like semiconductor research, avionics, and computer science. The bigger issue is by letting in Chinese and non EU students in large numbers has harmed the ability for our universities to develop the talent and research opportunities for domestic and EU students who are now competing more with international students who have deeper pockets and are cash cows for universities. Universities have always had international exchanges of students and researchers, however, it has gotten to the stage in many Western Universities that the majority of students are non nationals in postgraduate research opportunities in the sciences and engineering.
The bigger issue is by letting in Chinese and non EU students in large numbers has harmed the ability for our universities to develop the talent and research opportunities for domestic and EU students who are now competing more with international students who have deeper pockets and are cash cows for universities.
Thats not really the case. International students pay far more than Irish students and are needed in greater numbers due to funding cuts for the 3rd level that happened in the austerity years and were never reversed. The international students aren't hurting our students because they have deeper pockets, they are a result of our own government hurting our students.
Either way it’s pretty clear Irish universities and the government have they decided they want the income Chinese and students bring, and the quid pro quo is they bring aspects of their security state with them. Idk if it affects the experience of Irish students, it wasn’t a thing when I was in college…
No more of a “security risk” than hosting the Chinese embassy, or the US embassy for that matter, which we know has monitored the political activities of Irish students since the 80s…
My point is while the US never put “institutes” on Irish campuses, that hasn’t stopped them monitoring the political activities of Irish students for decades.
The presumed “security” purpose of the Confucius institutes is to monitor the political activities of Chinese students, the activities of Irish students being of less interest to the Chinese government, but in any case they are capable of doing that with or without a direct presence on campus.
The ex-spook insulting Sunday Times readers' intelligence with how much he oversimplified this is very funny.
Given the type of technology china is producing, AI quantum computing space exploration etc i think its funny that we think we can teach the chinese something rather than the other way around...
Maybe a few of the boys near the border could teach them how to build a car bomb or improvised mortar, if they aren't dead or in nursing homes.
you do realise we are education leaders in many an area China isn't?
Id be surprised if we’re teaching anything more cutting edge then they are in Chinese uni’s
The Chinese students studying in Ireland are probably not smart / hardworking enough to get into the best Chinese universities and not wealthy enough to pay for the most prestigious American ones
I did a STEM masters a few years ago and half the class were Chinese. Some were really smart and went on to do Phds and others didn't have a word of english. (They all passed) ¯_ (ツ)_/¯ They said the UK was twice as expensive for a similar course which was a factor. Outside of medicine Irish universities are just a money racket for fleecing foreign students. In science and technology at this stage I doubt we have anything worth stealing, they are already living 20 years in the future.
I’m in college right now and for some modules we have quite a few Chinese students.
There’s no in between, they’re either the smartest people in the class, or their English is so basic that they can’t really say hello and they use ChatGPT to translate every lecture.
I didn’t mean to imply any Chinese students are thick or lazy, just university entry in china is probably insanely competitive. I’m sure they can more than keep up with Irish and other international students.
The ones who aren’t fluent in English yet probably will be soon and turn out to be just as bright as anyone else…
Chinese universities are pretty backward. Source: I went to one
What a backward disgusting attitude to human endeavours.
Education is the one thing we shouldn’t gate keep and definitely shouldn’t use your nationality as a barrier to access.
Why would any Chinese top students go to Ireland?
Top chinese universities are way stronger than any Irish ones.
Seems to be pure propaganda because of some current trade talks, just Murdoch propaganda.
Eh "According to data from the Irish visa office, the number of visas issued to Chinese students for studying in Ireland reached 3,560 last year, the highest in a decade and a 10.52% increase compared to 2023." But I'm sure it's just propaganda.
Also yes China has some great universities but to act as though Ireland doesn't or that there's no Chinese students in Ireland when UCD literally has an entire academic school and building dedicated to both the learning of Mandarin and through Mandarin as well as to cater to Chinese students is just bizarre.
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You said why would any Chinese top student come to Ireland? Are you seriously telling me none of those 3,000 or so students could be considered a top student? Also, yeah, it's a small number compared to the overall population of China, but you were acting as if basically no Chinese students are coming here to study. Also, how am I racist lol, I literally just gave you a figure and you immediately jump to that because you have no actual argument.
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This comment / post was removed because it violates the following sub rule:
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From talking to Chinese students cheating is a significant problem in their institutions so a qualification from a foreign institution is seen as more trustworthy.
The top Chinese universities have very high entry requirements, not everyone gets in
The Irish Times isn't owned by Rupert Murdock.
The Irish Times are reporting on Martins response to accusations made in the Murdoch owned Sunday Times.
Since Covid the numbers have fell massively anyway.
This coming from the government that wanted to build a private city in Ireland for Hong Kong
Security issue is not really a thing, its just an issue the US highlighted years ago when many of their top universities let in Chinese students who returned to China bringing back expertise and knowledge which benefited Chinese research and industry, in particular key areas too like semiconductor research, avionics, and computer science. The bigger issue is by letting in Chinese and non EU students in large numbers has harmed the ability for our universities to develop the talent and research opportunities for domestic and EU students who are now competing more with international students who have deeper pockets and are cash cows for universities. Universities have always had international exchanges of students and researchers, however, it has gotten to the stage in many Western Universities that the majority of students are non nationals in postgraduate research opportunities in the sciences and engineering.
Thats not really the case. International students pay far more than Irish students and are needed in greater numbers due to funding cuts for the 3rd level that happened in the austerity years and were never reversed. The international students aren't hurting our students because they have deeper pockets, they are a result of our own government hurting our students.
So is it just the Dublin Chinese Police Station? Edit to add link https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_police_overseas_service_stations
The Chinese Confucius Institutes on university campuses definitely are though
Are they are security risk to Ireland or just the Chinese students who are studying in Ireland?
Do you think foreign nationals being targeted on Irish soil doesn't constituent a security risk? It's also not just limited to them
“Targeted” or “monitored”?
Either way it’s pretty clear Irish universities and the government have they decided they want the income Chinese and students bring, and the quid pro quo is they bring aspects of their security state with them. Idk if it affects the experience of Irish students, it wasn’t a thing when I was in college…
You seem to be accepting it is a security risk
No more of a “security risk” than hosting the Chinese embassy, or the US embassy for that matter, which we know has monitored the political activities of Irish students since the 80s…
Exactly why we shouldn't have them littered about our university campuses lmao
Or it’s zero difference just this way the universities are getting paid
That contracts your last comment
No contradiction.
My point is while the US never put “institutes” on Irish campuses, that hasn’t stopped them monitoring the political activities of Irish students for decades.
The presumed “security” purpose of the Confucius institutes is to monitor the political activities of Chinese students, the activities of Irish students being of less interest to the Chinese government, but in any case they are capable of doing that with or without a direct presence on campus.