"Under the new rules announced in September, if a person has appealed a decision but decides to return voluntarily before the appeal ruling is issued, they will receive €1,500, up to a maximum of €6,000 per family. If they receive a final decision on their application, assistance will only increase for families to a maximum of €3,000."
Seems cheap in comparison to housing, legal fees etc.
From my experience, people generally care more about what makes them feel better rather than what makes sense for society with these things, hence why lots will want harsh punishments even if they're less efficient.
One thing I wanted to know is there amy legal agreement like "cannot seek asylum in Ireland again for x amoubt of years?" I am not against policy as long as dome dude cant fly in again in 12- 36 months
but what's to stop someone returning and claiming asylum again? even if we take their fingerprint and know they were here and were paid off.
they're again protected by international law. just say a new situation arised and they're in danger. we're certainly not detaining them in dublin airport and sending them straight back (even though we should). so what happens?
People often try to quote this, and a second of thought would make them realize this rule isn't really a thing. Otherwise, everyone fleeing Africa would end up in Italy, Spain, etc, and we'd never take anyone cause we literally have no direct line to wartorn countries that don't involve other ones first.
It constantly amuses me how terrified people can be about the threat of asylum seekers to this country despite the almost total lack of any incidents of them causing harm. It's just sad that people are so gullible that they can be led down that rabbit hole despite the vast vast majority surely not being able to enumerate a single instance of an asylum seeker harming them or anyone they know.
Same goes for transphobes. I remember a conversation with some friends and the phantom issue of trans women using women's bathrooms came up. I asked if anyone there had, to the best of their knowledge met a trans person in the last year and no one had. Even asking if they had met a trans person within their lives only one had, and they said that person was lovely and they would be quite happy to let them use whatever bathroom they liked. They were literally worrying about an issue that is vanishingly unlikely to come up.
Considering that even Germany which is normally fairly transparent about reporting serious crimes hushed up a number of “SA incidents” over the years post 2015… when Merkel threw the EU borders wide open.
Unlike the Continent, Ireland has never ever published crime data broken down by origin or nationality or asylum or refugee status - so…
The change in demographics in the past decade is fairly noticeable as is the fact that a certain number of select people are making a substantial amount of money off IPAS centres all drawn from the tax payer.
RTE article:
€401 million spent by the Dept of Integration in 3 months alone and this has been going on for the past few years.
Unlike the Continent, Ireland has never ever published crime data broken down by origin or ethnicity - so…
Virtually every serious crime committed gets reported by the national news in Ireland so there's not some sort of conspiracy to hush up how much is committed by aslyum seekers, so keep your conspiratorial racism to yourself - thanks.
• Differentiates between German and non‑German suspects.
• Lists the nationalities of non‑German suspects
• Includes categories such as “asylum seeker,” “tolerated stay,” or “illegal residence” in some reports
You are welcome to advise where we in Ireland do this.
Irish CSO data link is here:
Irish CSO data link which relies on Pulse which doesn’t directly track nationality.
You neglected to mention that the percentage of crimes committed by non-Germans is lower than the percentage of the population that is non-German meaning immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than the domestic population, a statistic that holds pretty much anywhere that records such numbers.
Also, at the risk of stating the stupidly obvious, you can't just fill in a data gap by plucking data from some other random country and assuming it applies here. We don't track the percentage of the population that speak German on a daily basis here, should we just assume it's 81% like it is in Germany for example? I'm reminded of that idiotic front page story on one of the newspapers here a few years back that talked about how drug abuse was way up in Irish teenagers, except when you read the actual report it included the caveat that they just took data from France and assumed Ireland was the same.
If you want to talk about crime rates in Germany go to a German subreddit instead of just pretending that Ireland is the exact same and injecting your conclusions about what is happening in Germany here as if they applied to Ireland too. The post you're replying to points out that it's a small country with a relatively small amount of serious crime, most of which gets covered in the press. If there were a problem it would be obvious, there would be plenty accounts of it in the press, but there aren't. So you're just making it up instead.
I will stick to the well documented cases written about even by the mainstream media rather than German Reddit. A Google search is free.
🇩🇪 The 2015–2016 New Year’s Eve Sexual Assaults in Germany
(Cologne and other cities)
Germany experienced a major spike in reported sexual assaults on New Year’s Eve 2015–2016, particularly in Cologne. This event became one of the most widely reported crime stories in Europe that year.
🔹 What happened
According to the detailed report:
• Around 1,200 women reported being sexually assaulted across Germany on that night bing.com.
• Cologne alone accounted for around 650 cases, including 22 rapes.
• Other cities with significant reports included Hamburg (400+), Düsseldorf (103), Frankfurt (60), Stuttgart (17), and others.
🔹 Who were the suspects?
The Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) reported:
• The first 120 identified suspects were mostly of North African origin.
• By April 2016, among 153 suspects in Cologne:• Two‑thirds were from Morocco or Algeria
• 44% were asylum seekers
• 12% were likely in Germany illegally
• 3% were unaccompanied minors
• By July 2016, police stated that half of the identified suspects had arrived in Germany during 2015.
Where did I state we have published statistics on crimes by nationality?
I didn't. I stated (and I'll quote since you don't seem to have read it the first time):
Virtually every serious crime committed gets reported by the national news in Ireland so there's not some sort of conspiracy to hush up how much is committed by aslyum seekers
You didn't respond to this and instead waffled on about Germany and how we don't report the same way.
I'll re-iterate:
keep your conspiratorial racism to yourself - thanks.
This is a fairly weak argument as we don't have crime statistics, if we look to EU neighbours who do keep stats, AS commit a higher rate of crime per capita.
However, I'm more concerned by the fact we spend billions and use valuable resources to cater for them.
All of that, while also remembering these are Asylum Seekers and not Refugees. AS who more often than not are denied.
There's a wealth of these studies, they unfortunately do something I've always had a problem with, which is conflate asylum seekers with all immigrants. The above article actually says that labor immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than native Norwegians, while Asylum Seekers are 2-3X more likely to commit a crime.
Now, of course this will largely come down to socioeconomic factors and to a degree, cultural differences. But in my mind two facts are as clear as day. The first being that the majority of AS are chancers (given the number of declines) and the second is; they're not the cream of the crop.
Yeah but they are consuming right wing American YouTube 24/7 and only speaking to rational people once in a while, if you don’t share their view they’ll just stop talking to you about it. Fucking crazy how many people in Ireland gobble up all this right wing US and English shite
despite the almost total lack of any incidents of them causing harm.
We don't actually track this in any meaningful way.
Due to our total lack of record keeping with regards to this issue the best data we have to go on is from the UK.
They similarly do not comprehensively track this, however, the stats they do have reveal that foreign nationals are on average arrested 2x more often than British nationals.
Certain nationalities are multiples above average (I recall Albania, Romania and Afghanistan being amongst these).
There could be any number of factors that cause this, so it's not particularly useful information either.
What’s to stop someone from claiming asylum again using a different reason? They are still within their right and covered under the international asylum act to present themselves again even if we’ve seen them before and they took the money.
Yes but the whole discussion makes it sound like the people will show up with glasses and a fake moustache and say they are not who they claim to be, only for the govt not to know who they are.
And honestly, if returning to wherever they are from only to make their way back to Ireland is worth the *checks notes* €1,500 that they receive to return, then I don't think the math is mathing.
If I told you "I'll give you €1500 to fly beyond Spain/Turkey geographically and then you have to make your way back to Ireland without using flight", you'd never in a million years take that deal.
They have ample data on each asylum request and theres no evidence whatsoever that people are returning. What we are seeing here is a good government incentive working, which is far cheaper than the much more costly alternative of a forced deportation.
I'd never vote for FG or FF but lets not pretend that this isn't a good working policy.
There's probably risks e.g. them claiming here and elsewhere at the same time etc ..
But Honestly saves us having to house and reduces strain for others here so it for sure is the right step right now. If there is some small issues to iron out they can be fixed over time
I’m not complaining I’m scrutinising and stating facts. You say there is no evidence they are returning… hasn’t the system only began in recent months?
This system is absolutely welcome and hopefully it’s doing as the government say. But as you’ve seen before they feed the media nonsense to make it look as though things are working.
Can we get some stats because that’s what we need here
If 10 families took the 6k over say 6 months it’s not really working amazingly either. Stats required.
You stated facts? Where in your previous comment did you state a single fact? All I see is a cynical prediction not founded in an iota of evidence..
What do I see in your next comment? A made up example that has never happened along with a requests for stats which you've made no effort to look online or contact your local government TD on.
Also, the media are objective, if they get fed "nonsense" they tend to cut through it. Thats the job of good journalists.
The fact I stated is that the government has repeatedly failed when it comes to managing immigration or anything for that matter. Don’t make me list off factual examples.
We see articles about deportation flights with a measly 39 people on them which is the nonsense the media spread on behalf of the government. It makes it seem like they’re doing a lot when in fact it’s a drop in the ocean comparing how many are arriving.
Schools/hospitals/childcare/housing is crushing families in Ireland both Irish and foreign born it doesn’t really matter. We’ve record homelessness with children living in hotels at Christmas- grim.
And you think I shouldn’t be cynical?
I requested stats because you stated this scheme is working. If it is great but show me proof as you stated it’s working.
A sharp rise as the original article states is because they are being financially rewarded more now to leave. This is what I’m talking about. This only started in September 2025 when Jim O’Callahjan offered 10k per family.
Give them another grand, they could come back 20 times and it would still be cheaper than housing them for a year, without the catering, medical bills, legal fees, policing and security of IPAS centres etc.
They're paying €76.80 a night to hotels etc. For each IPAS applicant at the moment. Or €114 a week even if the IPAS applicant is homeless.
What kind of farce is that? What are we trying to achieve here? Is this about asylum and helping people or just paying them to come and go? How does this make sense to anyone? I'm all for helping people but we are being taking for mugs.
This shows the number of people returned if they try and make a second application.
Which show that even if they do come back they cannot reapply after a decision.
Also look at the numbers , they aren’t as high as the scaremongering folk would have you believe.
Lol, he cannot prove it either as the system has only started. We know what humans are like and they will exploit it. Also, trying to slate someone while simultaneously not knowing the difference between too and to is gold.
"Voluntary return" is a specific immigration process whereby someone notifies the state of their intention to leave after they have been refused permission to stay, but before a deportation order has been made.
The reasons they would do this are because it leaves the door open to them to re-apply for a visa from their home country, and because they can get assistance with their travel costs.
Under a deportation order, they will get free travel home, but may find themselves banned from Ireland and the EU for life.
So if someone does decide to leave voluntarily, they would be an idiot not to notify the state. But I'm sure many do because they're not aware of the process.
If what you say is true then voluntary return is misguided. Really were saying your not getting anything, please leave and then they are saying that they are going to leave (without actually having to at that point).
Voluntary return sounds like someone who was an asylum seeker but decides to go back to their country, or to another EU country where the grass is greener.
The state does track and ensure they have left, and they can apply for help with travel costs, and a "reintegration grant" which would cover rent for a month or two. And once they've done this, they can come back legally at any point. They can't leave to another EU country, they have to go home.
It's not a case that they ring up and say, "I'm going to leave, I promise", and the department says, "Grand so" and checks a box.
Some people seem to really think Ireland runs like some British stereotype from the 1970s.
Yes. But that's a separate thing. Many people when they've had their permission to stay refused, they will leave voluntarily.
A deportation order only occurs when someone's permission has been denied, and they haven't left voluntarily. When permission is denied, the state doesn't automatically go pick the person up and send them home, they have time to go do it themselves.
Being denied permission to stay doesn't imply any fraud or wrongdoing on the person's part. They've essentially just had their visa denied. They're not breaking the law, unless they don't leave.
A voluntary return happens when they have left. Anyone who engages with a voluntary return has by definition, left the country.
Those who don't engage with the voluntary return process will have a deportation order made against them, which means they will be arrested when found, and will be sent home.
You might be mixing up the issue reported last year where we don't know how many people with deportation orders have actually left the country.
Since we can't track people movements across the border and there's no statutory reporting done by airlines on who they're carrying out of the country, this means that there are probably quite a lot of ghosts in the deportation list who have long since left the country.
Someone I know recently did this so I have a little bit of insight: the state holds onto their passports so when they decided to leave they had to get in touch to get their passports back and had to arrange to meet the officer in the airport just before they boarded they went through security for their flight. So I assume that would be one way of knowing who's leaving
Remember back when Romania joined the EU, the UK press was full of horror stories about them all crowding in on Jan 1st to take all the jobs. When they interviewed actual Romainians, they basically said "Why would I move to the UK, the weather's shite"
One thing about Ireland is the weather for sure.
It's a better standard of living than most countries but the grey skies are depressing. I know of an Iraqi who has been here almost 20 years is moving to Spain. Not that he hates Ireland or anything. He made a good life here.
But the grey skies are getting him down.
They get a lot of people down. It’s a studied phenomenon. SAD. We’re just accustomed to it and many people who suffer from it accept it by default every winter.
Jfc, we could have a 0% immigration rate and you’d still say there’s thousands here the government just don’t know about them. Just let yourself feel happiness once in a while man, it’s ok.
While one can point to this as evidence that immigration policies are working, I also believe that this may be a sort of economic bellweather too.
Speak to anyone currently looking for work, and they'll tell you the job market's mental. Apparently lots of jobs being listed, but absolutely impossible to land one. And I'm noticing a lot more people finding themselves "out of a job" than I have seen in a number of years.
This will be happening at all levels, so even undocumented immigrants will be struggling to find cash-only work. Couple that with the housing crisis, and you would expect to see a sharp drop-off in immigrants, and an uptick in emigration. Foreign citizens - illegal/not permitted immigrants especially - are the first to leave when the economy starts lagging.
Until word gets around in those poor countries that you can make years salary instantly by travelling here and claiming asylum and leaving again with the payoff.
And people don't realise how difficult it is to get into Ireland. My wife is Chinese, and the first time she came to visit (not married), she needed:
An invitation letter, letter from her boss to prove her employment, six months worth of bank statements, an appointment with VFS Global (a cancerous third party company that deals with visas on behalf of consulates), and a written itinerary of our trip to Ireland.
When it comes to immigration, Irish people come out on top, but we don't notice our 'passport privilege' because we take it for granted that we can hop on a plane and go anywhere we want without any extra effort, and legally immigrating to a country is a piece of piss for us compared to most of the world.
You're not getting a visa for Ireland. You won't be allowed on the plane without one. You need a false travel document for a non-visa required country, which requires you to pay a people trafficker. That shit isn't cheap.
They aren’t lmao, most refugees go on foot + ferries and flights later. Nobody’s getting on a flight from Mali to Ireland and being like „I’m an assylum seeker, totally!”
But they’re not refugees, aren’t claiming refugee status and are irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Plus Indians are sound lads, you’d know if you weren’t such a dry shite
They pay a trafficker for a fake passport and then destroy the passport on board and claim asylum when they arrive here. Not sure why you are laughing at the other commenter? But you can’t just arrive to Ireland for a short stay or student visa from the countries they are originating from.
Honestly though, who wouldn't take it? If I knew there was a country on the other side of the world that would give me 50k (relative to our wages) and then go home again, why wouldn't I? Can someone please explain why they wouldn't and how this isn't an incentive?
Alergians come via France. They can get into France quite easily, due to the history between the two places. It's (relatively) easy to get to Ireland from there then.
Once they are here in Ireland, Alergia will not take them back. Hence why big Jim is pressing France to take them (which France will to be fair).
I had an Indian chap working with me and we needed to go to the UK (a few years ago). We got him a visa, and he went for his visa interview.
In Dublin airport AND in London we were not asked for any ID at all; just a boarding pass. On the way back, they did ask for ID. Presumably the airline staff can then see the visa status, but is it really good controls to leave it in the hands of airline staff? There was no customs officers at all involved in the process nor there to check documents.
This man was just pissed that he spent his time going to the visa interview, and then no one checked his documents.
Yeah, look, I may be missing a trick and it may all be good, but it just seemed bizarre that we weren't asked for passports on either side. If it's all happening behind the scenes and making it smooth for the passengers, that's great.
Ironically, even though I'm giving out about not being asked for my passport, I had an incident where I was giving out FOR being asked for my passport.
I was asked to identify myself and show my passport when I stepped off a plane from France. Barely one foot on home soil and they were there to meet passengers. It half pissed me off, but eventually I settled down.
Given I had shown them my passport on the runway, I was insistent that I was not going to show them my passport again at the normal checkpoint and they can fxck off. I already identified myself as an Irish citizen, so they can fxck off. But my wife told me relax the cacks, that they are entitled to do this, that they had no problem when they seen the passport and waved us on, and to not create a scene.
It turns out they were looking for 4 dudes specifically. It looks to me that they just asked everyone for their passport in case they were wrong.
If they targeted the 4 guys only, maybe it would have been some legal trouble were they wrong in their assumptions. But they were definitely looking for set people. They had all these big lads (Gardai) with them and all decked out in their protective gear and customs badges.
There was no hassle on the plane or anything, so it was bizarre to see them right on the runway before we even got a chance to stretch our legs.
Then again, I might not have the first clue why they were there, but they were right on the runway pulling people for passports. Was immigration related in my books. No drugs finds in the news or anything.
Your passport number was likely attached to your ticket. So they already knew. And the airline staff are doing the checking, you see them scanning your ticket before you get on and it beeps ok. If the system identified that you were not cleared, you’d be denied, and you can be sure that there are plenty of security behind the scenes who are there if needed. You saw it on that plane. I’ve never had quite the experience you did but I’ve been on planes multiple times where passports were checked while exiting the plane. Presumably to prevent the situation where people destroy their passports. But not most flights - they must have sophisticated intelligence to predict and prevent these scenarios.
Did you read your own comment? You said 50k relative to their own wages. I said the journey could cost more than 50k relative to their wages. Check yourself
It was still very little that were choosing to leave, even after being told to, to begin with.
They should also copy more of Denmark's great ideas, such as off-shore processing. Albania (now doing direct flights to Ireland) have offered their services for this to several EU states.
People here thinking we're the smart ones "yeah we showed them, cheaper for us in the long run".
When taxpayers money is being paid to scammers so they'll leave.
How's about we detain them in a secured facility until their decision is made, we wouldn't have to pay any scammers then as they wouldn't even come to begin with.
I spent two years flat out working while rough sleeping in Dublin with my only expenses being food transportation and admittedly cigarettes and I ended up with about 6k. Man I'm envious of the asylum seekers.....
"Under the new rules announced in September, if a person has appealed a decision but decides to return voluntarily before the appeal ruling is issued, they will receive €1,500, up to a maximum of €6,000 per family. If they receive a final decision on their application, assistance will only increase for families to a maximum of €3,000."
Seems cheap in comparison to housing, legal fees etc.
It's also much cheaper than an enforced deportation. People don't generally have any idea how difficult and expensive those are.
yes, IIRC it costs something like €20k per deportation. paying them to leave is efficient, even if it sounds unfair.
Basically it's a Country-Wide cash for keys eviction.
From my experience, people generally care more about what makes them feel better rather than what makes sense for society with these things, hence why lots will want harsh punishments even if they're less efficient.
One thing I wanted to know is there amy legal agreement like "cannot seek asylum in Ireland again for x amoubt of years?" I am not against policy as long as dome dude cant fly in again in 12- 36 months
I agree. On a financial basis it makes sense. If the options are A or B, and A is much cheaper, then it makes sense to go for A.
That said, is there still something that stinks about it?.
Asylum seekers: Hey we want asylum. The authorities: How about this?
https://i.redd.it/uhovijeyoqbg1.gif
I mean, if they take the money, were they truly “asylum,” seekers in the first place?
[removed]
Fingerprints of anyone who makes an asylum claim in the EU are taken.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving-country/asylum-seekers-and-refugees/the-asylum-process-in-ireland/eurodac-system/
but what's to stop someone returning and claiming asylum again? even if we take their fingerprint and know they were here and were paid off.
they're again protected by international law. just say a new situation arised and they're in danger. we're certainly not detaining them in dublin airport and sending them straight back (even though we should). so what happens?
They have always been taken - never stopped anyone from landing in Ireland via UK (through Northern Ireland.)
So much for “first safe country principle”.
People often try to quote this, and a second of thought would make them realize this rule isn't really a thing. Otherwise, everyone fleeing Africa would end up in Italy, Spain, etc, and we'd never take anyone cause we literally have no direct line to wartorn countries that don't involve other ones first.
It constantly amuses me how terrified people can be about the threat of asylum seekers to this country despite the almost total lack of any incidents of them causing harm. It's just sad that people are so gullible that they can be led down that rabbit hole despite the vast vast majority surely not being able to enumerate a single instance of an asylum seeker harming them or anyone they know.
Same goes for transphobes. I remember a conversation with some friends and the phantom issue of trans women using women's bathrooms came up. I asked if anyone there had, to the best of their knowledge met a trans person in the last year and no one had. Even asking if they had met a trans person within their lives only one had, and they said that person was lovely and they would be quite happy to let them use whatever bathroom they liked. They were literally worrying about an issue that is vanishingly unlikely to come up.
Considering that even Germany which is normally fairly transparent about reporting serious crimes hushed up a number of “SA incidents” over the years post 2015… when Merkel threw the EU borders wide open.
Unlike the Continent, Ireland has never ever published crime data broken down by origin or nationality or asylum or refugee status - so…
The change in demographics in the past decade is fairly noticeable as is the fact that a certain number of select people are making a substantial amount of money off IPAS centres all drawn from the tax payer.
RTE article:
€401 million spent by the Dept of Integration in 3 months alone and this has been going on for the past few years.
RTE article on IPAS centre spending
https://www.rte.ie/news/clarity/2025/0620/1519404-ipas-clarity/
Virtually every serious crime committed gets reported by the national news in Ireland so there's not some sort of conspiracy to hush up how much is committed by aslyum seekers, so keep your conspiratorial racism to yourself - thanks.
You have no clue what you are talking about.
According to the Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA), the official Polizeiliche Kriminalstatistik (PKS) reports publicly as follows:
Link here: Link to German Crime stats:
• Differentiates between German and non‑German suspects. • Lists the nationalities of non‑German suspects • Includes categories such as “asylum seeker,” “tolerated stay,” or “illegal residence” in some reports
You are welcome to advise where we in Ireland do this.
Irish CSO data link is here:
Irish CSO data link which relies on Pulse which doesn’t directly track nationality.
We are years behind on reporting mechanisms.
You neglected to mention that the percentage of crimes committed by non-Germans is lower than the percentage of the population that is non-German meaning immigrants commit crime at a lower rate than the domestic population, a statistic that holds pretty much anywhere that records such numbers.
Also, at the risk of stating the stupidly obvious, you can't just fill in a data gap by plucking data from some other random country and assuming it applies here. We don't track the percentage of the population that speak German on a daily basis here, should we just assume it's 81% like it is in Germany for example? I'm reminded of that idiotic front page story on one of the newspapers here a few years back that talked about how drug abuse was way up in Irish teenagers, except when you read the actual report it included the caveat that they just took data from France and assumed Ireland was the same.
If you want to talk about crime rates in Germany go to a German subreddit instead of just pretending that Ireland is the exact same and injecting your conclusions about what is happening in Germany here as if they applied to Ireland too. The post you're replying to points out that it's a small country with a relatively small amount of serious crime, most of which gets covered in the press. If there were a problem it would be obvious, there would be plenty accounts of it in the press, but there aren't. So you're just making it up instead.
I will stick to the well documented cases written about even by the mainstream media rather than German Reddit. A Google search is free.
🇩🇪 The 2015–2016 New Year’s Eve Sexual Assaults in Germany
(Cologne and other cities)
Germany experienced a major spike in reported sexual assaults on New Year’s Eve 2015–2016, particularly in Cologne. This event became one of the most widely reported crime stories in Europe that year.
🔹 What happened
According to the detailed report:
• Around 1,200 women reported being sexually assaulted across Germany on that night bing.com. • Cologne alone accounted for around 650 cases, including 22 rapes. • Other cities with significant reports included Hamburg (400+), Düsseldorf (103), Frankfurt (60), Stuttgart (17), and others.
🔹 Who were the suspects?
The Federal Criminal Police Office (BKA) reported:
• The first 120 identified suspects were mostly of North African origin. • By April 2016, among 153 suspects in Cologne:• Two‑thirds were from Morocco or Algeria • 44% were asylum seekers • 12% were likely in Germany illegally • 3% were unaccompanied minors • By July 2016, police stated that half of the identified suspects had arrived in Germany during 2015.
Where did I state we have published statistics on crimes by nationality?
I didn't. I stated (and I'll quote since you don't seem to have read it the first time):
You didn't respond to this and instead waffled on about Germany and how we don't report the same way.
I'll re-iterate:
Do we keep proper statistics on crime rates and asylum seekers, refugees?
We don’t - we do not work to the same crime record keeping standards as the rest of the EU.
Pointing this obvious fact out doesn’t make one racist and/or ignorant.
Your ad hominem attacks aren’t going anywhere 😂
So are you saying that the decrease in violent and sexually violent crime is due to the same change in demographics?
This is a fairly weak argument as we don't have crime statistics, if we look to EU neighbours who do keep stats, AS commit a higher rate of crime per capita.
However, I'm more concerned by the fact we spend billions and use valuable resources to cater for them.
All of that, while also remembering these are Asylum Seekers and not Refugees. AS who more often than not are denied.
I'd love to see government statistics from any EU nation showing that Asylum seekers commit more crimes per capita.
Germany: In 2017, asylum seekers represented 2% of the population and 15.9% of suspects in rape and sexual assault cases.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_crime_in_Germany#Sexual_offences
https://portal.research.lu.se/en/publications/immigrant-background-and-rape-conviction-a-21-year-follow-up-stud/
https://www.ssb.no/en/sosiale-forhold-og-kriminalitet/artikler-og-publikasjoner/crime-among-immigrants-and-children-of-immigrants-in-norway
There's a wealth of these studies, they unfortunately do something I've always had a problem with, which is conflate asylum seekers with all immigrants. The above article actually says that labor immigrants commit crimes at a lower rate than native Norwegians, while Asylum Seekers are 2-3X more likely to commit a crime.
Now, of course this will largely come down to socioeconomic factors and to a degree, cultural differences. But in my mind two facts are as clear as day. The first being that the majority of AS are chancers (given the number of declines) and the second is; they're not the cream of the crop.
Isn’t it a massive problem in Sweden?
Yeah but they are consuming right wing American YouTube 24/7 and only speaking to rational people once in a while, if you don’t share their view they’ll just stop talking to you about it. Fucking crazy how many people in Ireland gobble up all this right wing US and English shite
We don't actually track this in any meaningful way. Due to our total lack of record keeping with regards to this issue the best data we have to go on is from the UK.
They similarly do not comprehensively track this, however, the stats they do have reveal that foreign nationals are on average arrested 2x more often than British nationals.
Certain nationalities are multiples above average (I recall Albania, Romania and Afghanistan being amongst these). There could be any number of factors that cause this, so it's not particularly useful information either.
Into the UK and across to the north and down the M1 on the bus.
The point is that your fingerprints are already on the record here. Same story as if you arrived directly in Dublin on a plane.
You can explain it to them, you cant understand it for them.
What’s to stop someone from claiming asylum again using a different reason? They are still within their right and covered under the international asylum act to present themselves again even if we’ve seen them before and they took the money.
Yes but the whole discussion makes it sound like the people will show up with glasses and a fake moustache and say they are not who they claim to be, only for the govt not to know who they are.
And honestly, if returning to wherever they are from only to make their way back to Ireland is worth the *checks notes* €1,500 that they receive to return, then I don't think the math is mathing.
If I told you "I'll give you €1500 to fly beyond Spain/Turkey geographically and then you have to make your way back to Ireland without using flight", you'd never in a million years take that deal.
Well how far does 1500 euro go in their country?
Also 1500 euro is their worst case scenario.
Would it not be like you offering me say 25k in Ireland?
Because you know what I’d do if you offered me 25k to go beyond turkey or spain and not use a flight back?
I’d pack my bags
But it's not 25k.......
The point is that no one's offering anyone 25k.
With no passport?
Yes
What happens to them. Fingerprinted, identified and accommodated as per usual.
This means nothing to activist judges
Go home yank.
I'm not a yank love
I'm sorry. Terminal yank brain is a serious affliction.
They have ample data on each asylum request and theres no evidence whatsoever that people are returning. What we are seeing here is a good government incentive working, which is far cheaper than the much more costly alternative of a forced deportation.
I'd never vote for FG or FF but lets not pretend that this isn't a good working policy.
There's probably risks e.g. them claiming here and elsewhere at the same time etc ..
But Honestly saves us having to house and reduces strain for others here so it for sure is the right step right now. If there is some small issues to iron out they can be fixed over time
I’m not complaining I’m scrutinising and stating facts. You say there is no evidence they are returning… hasn’t the system only began in recent months?
This system is absolutely welcome and hopefully it’s doing as the government say. But as you’ve seen before they feed the media nonsense to make it look as though things are working.
Can we get some stats because that’s what we need here
If 10 families took the 6k over say 6 months it’s not really working amazingly either. Stats required.
Have you any evidence that any have returned again?
He most certainly has not
Have you any evidence they haven’t?
Xenophobic troll who hides their comment history asks for a negative to be proven.
Figures.
You stated facts? Where in your previous comment did you state a single fact? All I see is a cynical prediction not founded in an iota of evidence..
What do I see in your next comment? A made up example that has never happened along with a requests for stats which you've made no effort to look online or contact your local government TD on.
Also, the media are objective, if they get fed "nonsense" they tend to cut through it. Thats the job of good journalists.
The fact I stated is that the government has repeatedly failed when it comes to managing immigration or anything for that matter. Don’t make me list off factual examples.
We see articles about deportation flights with a measly 39 people on them which is the nonsense the media spread on behalf of the government. It makes it seem like they’re doing a lot when in fact it’s a drop in the ocean comparing how many are arriving.
Schools/hospitals/childcare/housing is crushing families in Ireland both Irish and foreign born it doesn’t really matter. We’ve record homelessness with children living in hotels at Christmas- grim.
And you think I shouldn’t be cynical?
I requested stats because you stated this scheme is working. If it is great but show me proof as you stated it’s working.
Voluntary returns have been a thing for years.
A sharp rise as the original article states is because they are being financially rewarded more now to leave. This is what I’m talking about. This only started in September 2025 when Jim O’Callahjan offered 10k per family.
And a miserable failure so far.
Please submit the data that's suggest this?
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Im certainly not cushy cheap mortgage and beautiful family. Is there something wrong with welfare recipients?
It's mental that people on welfare complain about people they think are on welfare.
In many cases it might only cover their cost to travel.
So what do we do when they just come back?
Give them another grand, they could come back 20 times and it would still be cheaper than housing them for a year, without the catering, medical bills, legal fees, policing and security of IPAS centres etc.
They're paying €76.80 a night to hotels etc. For each IPAS applicant at the moment. Or €114 a week even if the IPAS applicant is homeless.
What kind of farce is that? What are we trying to achieve here? Is this about asylum and helping people or just paying them to come and go? How does this make sense to anyone? I'm all for helping people but we are being taking for mugs.
This is how the asylum process works.
While someone is seeking asylum in this country they're legally entitled to a lot of stuff.
Because for all the dodgy cases there are some genuine ones
Omg
Also frees accomodation up for people who actually need to be here. E.g. workers or people who are homeless etc
They don’t ,
How do you know?
https://assets.gov.ie/static/documents/c34524ee/International_Protection_Summary_Report_October_2025.pdf
This shows the number of people returned if they try and make a second application. Which show that even if they do come back they cannot reapply after a decision.
Also look at the numbers , they aren’t as high as the scaremongering folk would have you believe.
How do you know they do? You're the one who started the hypothetical, and thus have the burden of proof, no?
EDIT: lol, a snarky response and then blocked so I can't answer. Totally a response from someone secure about their argument 😂
Incorrect. Person above put forward an assertion, which I have questioned. Simply saying they don't doesn't really suffice.
Yes and I sent you a link for statistical information which granted shows some reapplication, they are refused and returned to their c.o.o
No, you said “what do we do when they just come back?”
Not IF. But WHEN.
You made the assertion that implied they will come back. Prove it.
It's not a thesis mate, relax. Go for a walk or something, great for the head.
It's not a thesis mate relax, that's a good way to deny any involvement in something you don't like the answer too and caught out being wrong for 🤣
Lol, he cannot prove it either as the system has only started. We know what humans are like and they will exploit it. Also, trying to slate someone while simultaneously not knowing the difference between too and to is gold.
Of course, they just come back under a different name. It’s literally the perpetual money making scam.
The question had always been how these voluntary returns are being tracked.
Does anyone have any insight on this?
"Voluntary return" is a specific immigration process whereby someone notifies the state of their intention to leave after they have been refused permission to stay, but before a deportation order has been made.
The reasons they would do this are because it leaves the door open to them to re-apply for a visa from their home country, and because they can get assistance with their travel costs.
Under a deportation order, they will get free travel home, but may find themselves banned from Ireland and the EU for life.
So if someone does decide to leave voluntarily, they would be an idiot not to notify the state. But I'm sure many do because they're not aware of the process.
If what you say is true then voluntary return is misguided. Really were saying your not getting anything, please leave and then they are saying that they are going to leave (without actually having to at that point).
Voluntary return sounds like someone who was an asylum seeker but decides to go back to their country, or to another EU country where the grass is greener.
You misunderstand.
The state does track and ensure they have left, and they can apply for help with travel costs, and a "reintegration grant" which would cover rent for a month or two. And once they've done this, they can come back legally at any point. They can't leave to another EU country, they have to go home.
It's not a case that they ring up and say, "I'm going to leave, I promise", and the department says, "Grand so" and checks a box.
Some people seem to really think Ireland runs like some British stereotype from the 1970s.
But hasn't there been cases with people with deportation orders not leaving?
Yes. But that's a separate thing. Many people when they've had their permission to stay refused, they will leave voluntarily.
A deportation order only occurs when someone's permission has been denied, and they haven't left voluntarily. When permission is denied, the state doesn't automatically go pick the person up and send them home, they have time to go do it themselves.
Being denied permission to stay doesn't imply any fraud or wrongdoing on the person's part. They've essentially just had their visa denied. They're not breaking the law, unless they don't leave.
A voluntary return happens when they have left. Anyone who engages with a voluntary return has by definition, left the country.
Those who don't engage with the voluntary return process will have a deportation order made against them, which means they will be arrested when found, and will be sent home.
You might be mixing up the issue reported last year where we don't know how many people with deportation orders have actually left the country.
Since we can't track people movements across the border and there's no statutory reporting done by airlines on who they're carrying out of the country, this means that there are probably quite a lot of ghosts in the deportation list who have long since left the country.
Someone I know recently did this so I have a little bit of insight: the state holds onto their passports so when they decided to leave they had to get in touch to get their passports back and had to arrange to meet the officer in the airport just before they boarded they went through security for their flight. So I assume that would be one way of knowing who's leaving
That’s a pretty strong guarantee that the person is leaving !
Maybe they don't like the misery!
It has to be the weather.
Remember back when Romania joined the EU, the UK press was full of horror stories about them all crowding in on Jan 1st to take all the jobs. When they interviewed actual Romainians, they basically said "Why would I move to the UK, the weather's shite"
One thing about Ireland is the weather for sure.
It's a better standard of living than most countries but the grey skies are depressing. I know of an Iraqi who has been here almost 20 years is moving to Spain. Not that he hates Ireland or anything. He made a good life here.
But the grey skies are getting him down.
They get a lot of people down. It’s a studied phenomenon. SAD. We’re just accustomed to it and many people who suffer from it accept it by default every winter.
I know a Brazilian who left for the same reason, could not cope with the grey skies.
"Casablanca is a desert"
"I was misinformed"
You have to be especially stubborn to stick with the misery.
Many people went to Australia and missed the misery too much, like Stockholm syndrome but more Stuckathome syndrome.
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1600 leaving in a year means there's still several thousand staying here even though their application was rejected.
Jfc, we could have a 0% immigration rate and you’d still say there’s thousands here the government just don’t know about them. Just let yourself feel happiness once in a while man, it’s ok.
While one can point to this as evidence that immigration policies are working, I also believe that this may be a sort of economic bellweather too.
Speak to anyone currently looking for work, and they'll tell you the job market's mental. Apparently lots of jobs being listed, but absolutely impossible to land one. And I'm noticing a lot more people finding themselves "out of a job" than I have seen in a number of years.
This will be happening at all levels, so even undocumented immigrants will be struggling to find cash-only work. Couple that with the housing crisis, and you would expect to see a sharp drop-off in immigrants, and an uptick in emigration. Foreign citizens - illegal/not permitted immigrants especially - are the first to leave when the economy starts lagging.
I could be wrong, but this is my gut feeling.
Until word gets around in those poor countries that you can make years salary instantly by travelling here and claiming asylum and leaving again with the payoff.
You'd make a loss once you paid the people traffickers necessary to get you here.
Yeah I think people don’t appreciate how expensive that can be, depending on where you’re coming from.
And people don't realise how difficult it is to get into Ireland. My wife is Chinese, and the first time she came to visit (not married), she needed:
An invitation letter, letter from her boss to prove her employment, six months worth of bank statements, an appointment with VFS Global (a cancerous third party company that deals with visas on behalf of consulates), and a written itinerary of our trip to Ireland.
When it comes to immigration, Irish people come out on top, but we don't notice our 'passport privilege' because we take it for granted that we can hop on a plane and go anywhere we want without any extra effort, and legally immigrating to a country is a piece of piss for us compared to most of the world.
This!
I was reading that most of them are coming in through Dublin Airport though?
Sure, how do you get on a plane on the other end?
You're not getting a visa for Ireland. You won't be allowed on the plane without one. You need a false travel document for a non-visa required country, which requires you to pay a people trafficker. That shit isn't cheap.
Where did you read that? Estimates were that over 80% were travelling in from the north.
https://www.thejournal.ie/80-of-migrants-enter-over-northern-border-6362866-Apr2024/?utm_source=chatgpt.com
They aren’t lmao, most refugees go on foot + ferries and flights later. Nobody’s getting on a flight from Mali to Ireland and being like „I’m an assylum seeker, totally!”
A simple Google search will show you that most are entering through Dublin Airport and just applying. Nobody is trafficking them.
Most people traffickers just put you on a plane. This isn't a film.
A film? As in what is happening in the English Channel? Why would someone need a trafficker when there is two flights in a day haha
They don’t have visas or passports you melon hahaha. Do you think people just get in the boats for shits and giggles?
Most of them have short stay or student visas, why do you think so many Indians go to college here you melon haha
Imagine thinking that this is a clever point...
But they’re not refugees, aren’t claiming refugee status and are irrelevant to the conversation at hand. Plus Indians are sound lads, you’d know if you weren’t such a dry shite
Haha, because they don't have a visa, haha
Short stay and student visas haha. Not the brightest one here.
They pay a trafficker for a fake passport and then destroy the passport on board and claim asylum when they arrive here. Not sure why you are laughing at the other commenter? But you can’t just arrive to Ireland for a short stay or student visa from the countries they are originating from.
They wouldn't be given those either, not least because they wouldn't satisfy the means criteria.
It's always those who understand this stuff at the level of a small child who feel qualified to make sweeping pronouncements about it.
No need for you to tell us, it's clear from your comments.
edit: lol, the precious little baba blocked me for using his own insult back at him. /u/Test_N_Faith is able to dish it out but not take it, it seems.
A simple google search shows you're actually quite wrong
That article is from always 2 years ago. Please refrain from archaic articles being used.
First of all, that's May 2024, which is less than two years ago, but Fine, Last November, 87%. Number coming from the Minister of Justice himself.
Cost of being trafficked into Ireland is far more than that. Plus the time spent on it and the risks involved
Honestly though, who wouldn't take it? If I knew there was a country on the other side of the world that would give me 50k (relative to our wages) and then go home again, why wouldn't I? Can someone please explain why they wouldn't and how this isn't an incentive?
The enhanced payment is only for those who are already here.
The cost of getting here for someone like that is pretty steep, they need to acquire false travel documents which don't come cheap.
Alergians come via France. They can get into France quite easily, due to the history between the two places. It's (relatively) easy to get to Ireland from there then.
Once they are here in Ireland, Alergia will not take them back. Hence why big Jim is pressing France to take them (which France will to be fair).
I had an Indian chap working with me and we needed to go to the UK (a few years ago). We got him a visa, and he went for his visa interview.
In Dublin airport AND in London we were not asked for any ID at all; just a boarding pass. On the way back, they did ask for ID. Presumably the airline staff can then see the visa status, but is it really good controls to leave it in the hands of airline staff? There was no customs officers at all involved in the process nor there to check documents.
This man was just pissed that he spent his time going to the visa interview, and then no one checked his documents.
Visa checks are automated at the airline end. The staff don't need to check anything, they will just refuse you boarding if computer says no.
Yeah, look, I may be missing a trick and it may all be good, but it just seemed bizarre that we weren't asked for passports on either side. If it's all happening behind the scenes and making it smooth for the passengers, that's great.
Ironically, even though I'm giving out about not being asked for my passport, I had an incident where I was giving out FOR being asked for my passport.
I was asked to identify myself and show my passport when I stepped off a plane from France. Barely one foot on home soil and they were there to meet passengers. It half pissed me off, but eventually I settled down.
Given I had shown them my passport on the runway, I was insistent that I was not going to show them my passport again at the normal checkpoint and they can fxck off. I already identified myself as an Irish citizen, so they can fxck off. But my wife told me relax the cacks, that they are entitled to do this, that they had no problem when they seen the passport and waved us on, and to not create a scene.
It turns out they were looking for 4 dudes specifically. It looks to me that they just asked everyone for their passport in case they were wrong.
If they targeted the 4 guys only, maybe it would have been some legal trouble were they wrong in their assumptions. But they were definitely looking for set people. They had all these big lads (Gardai) with them and all decked out in their protective gear and customs badges.
There was no hassle on the plane or anything, so it was bizarre to see them right on the runway before we even got a chance to stretch our legs.
Then again, I might not have the first clue why they were there, but they were right on the runway pulling people for passports. Was immigration related in my books. No drugs finds in the news or anything.
Your passport number was likely attached to your ticket. So they already knew. And the airline staff are doing the checking, you see them scanning your ticket before you get on and it beeps ok. If the system identified that you were not cleared, you’d be denied, and you can be sure that there are plenty of security behind the scenes who are there if needed. You saw it on that plane. I’ve never had quite the experience you did but I’ve been on planes multiple times where passports were checked while exiting the plane. Presumably to prevent the situation where people destroy their passports. But not most flights - they must have sophisticated intelligence to predict and prevent these scenarios.
Because the cost of coming here could be more than 50k relative. The risk to reward isn’t worth it
The cost of a flight to Ireland would be more than 50k? Right.
Did you read your own comment? You said 50k relative to their own wages. I said the journey could cost more than 50k relative to their wages. Check yourself
Makes you wonder what some of these zealots would actually propose to solve the issue.
I'd love to see one single piece of evidence to back up your claim. You need to check yourself before commenting.
Begone shit stirrer.
Thank you for proving my point.
That's not how the world works. Have you ever been anywhere?
It was still very little that were choosing to leave, even after being told to, to begin with.
They should also copy more of Denmark's great ideas, such as off-shore processing. Albania (now doing direct flights to Ireland) have offered their services for this to several EU states.
People here thinking we're the smart ones "yeah we showed them, cheaper for us in the long run". When taxpayers money is being paid to scammers so they'll leave.
How's about we detain them in a secured facility until their decision is made, we wouldn't have to pay any scammers then as they wouldn't even come to begin with.
offshore processing is still the cheapest and best deterrent.
Denmark only processed 864 cases in total for 2024, think Ireland did over 18,000 applicants, 40% up on 2023.
Not sharp enough
Fair
Some will be back and get another payoff
Well if they can get new fingerprints for less than 1500 quid it’s an infinite money glitch
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Which red, white and blue flag do you fly boss
Your paranoia is showing bro. The fragile egos here is something else lol
Too much risk and hassle with false travel documents. I'd be impressed if anyone was doing it regularly.
I spent two years flat out working while rough sleeping in Dublin with my only expenses being food transportation and admittedly cigarettes and I ended up with about 6k. Man I'm envious of the asylum seekers.....
For most I would wager it's the economics of it plus the awful direct provision. Ireland has become an expensive place to exist, never mind live