Discovered MBTI in 2024 and since then I've noticed a recurring opinion from people. They often hate us and call men of our type as heartless people.
Personally I've never really cared irl, but here in reddit and other online spaces I constantly see people shitting on us.
- Do you really think MBTI has something to do with this or people are just scumbags?
- Steps you've taken to be more likeable in the office or other setting? Personally I have not cared much
EDIT:
I don't think I'm an intimidating man, at least I try not to come off as such, but people have commented in the past like 'I find you arrogant', my ex GF used to call me egoistic, one younger dude when I was in college told my roomate that he's scared of me and I had done nothing to him, so never understood why. Also, there are 1 or 2 female colleagues at workplace, the moment I open my mouth to state an opinion they're ready to get offended. Even at my age 33 I'm still learning social dynamics, I feel like a noob. Just personal experiences.
The fact that our Fe (other people's feelings) are so low on our totem pole has to play a part in why we're so vilified.
"charisma" in gaming terms is often misinterpreted to be a kind of measure of how personable or likeable someone is. (it's not what charisma is nor how it works, but being wrong never stopped anyone). If we were going to draw on something as a representation of soft skills and how likeable someone is, Fe is a far better and more accurate candidate for it. It's not even that we can't be if we put effort towards it, it's just that most often we consider it beneath us, when we even consider it at all
That's right. It's not that I don't understand others (although sometimes that's also the case), it's that I don't care of or respect the way they are (shallow and ignorant), much less attuning to it. I guess hatred is to be expected
being disliked is the price we pay. there are some people that are so worthless and despicable that i'd rather pay that price than waste a single neuron on them.
You’re most definitely correct I like to call these kinds of people simply a “ nothing person “. In the past I’ve legitimately told people how worthless they are but this was when I was younger and didn’t care about social repercussions.
These days i simply quietly withdraw myself from their presence at the first opportune moment. They're not even worth the conflict.
The problem is you can't withdraw from your boss, colleagues, even relatives and whoever you're seeing day to day, so there's that
you keep interactions to the point and coolly professional. if the boss is enough of a problem, you look for a different job.
I used to call them “walking waste of amino acids and oxygen” but “nothing person” sums it up nicely
I never told them outright but I guess they can feel my judgement. Like, if they want to go shopping and I say (and I really do, because I'm like that) "I hate shopping, I have way too many clothes and they don't enrich my life", I'm not just saying "idc about shopping" but they understand I'm judging them, when in reality I genuinely don't care. When I say "I hate shopping" what I'm looking for is approval from someone that feels like me about it, NOT to actively reject those who are into it - and let me elaborate on that; i literally just don't care, like I couldn't care if I tried! I'm diagnosed schizoid ffs, and although I explained to them how it makes me behave, they still take it personally as if I'm actively judging and refusing them. Because they ARE INDEED STUPID apparently, literally they don't understand something even if I thoroughly explained it. I really can't lose my sanity (or what's left of it anyway) after those people fcs.
Some people itt talk about "social skills" and overall taking responsibility for how others perceive me. So according to them, what are we to do? Attune to ignorant, shallow people? What would even be the benefit, not being disliked?
You could do that. It's always a good skill to have, especially when that perception really counts. Like for job interviews. But it's not something i would use indiscriminately or leave on all the time, it's too exhausting. Targeted, only for people who matter.
The real problem is something else entirely. Both INTPS and INTJs tend to see the majority of the population as stupid, ignorant, and out of step with them. Subconsciously, you, like many others, tend to despise them, and as a result, you'll be perceived as arrogant or heartless. The truth, in my opinion, is that the majority of the population isn't stupid; they're just accustomed to using a type of intelligence (emotional, for example) that we despise or don't value. So, yes, we're the ones who have to adapt to the crowd. Those who can adapt usually get ahead.
Agreed.
There are some of us though, who are highly susceptible to empathic vibes from others that the exact opposite occurs, so there are exceptions to this rule of thought. I would hope the whole lot of us are not vilified simply because of our Fe. Sometimes other aspects about ourselves can counteract or bring some balance to how we perceive or are perceived.
I am mindful of peoples' feelings because I have the awareness that I'm supposed to be. And I do care in that I don't want to be intentionally mean or hurtful to others, but trying to tiptoe around (often irrational) emotional reactions is something I prefer to avoid and that can come off as being cold or aloof.
I think we’re polarising, either love us or hate us. I think the ‘hate us’ crowd says more about them TBH, we don’t fawn to ego or insecurities, it drives them absolutely up the wall.
As an INTP this is it. People who know me well tend to like me a lot. People who don't know me well tend to either greatly dislike me, or find me "weird" (which can be good or bad). And I've lost some friends over the years when they realised that I won't back them blindly when I think they're doing something wrong.
It adds up to a pretty polarised set of reactions.
Yes this resonates
Oh, absolutely!
People who love INTJ tends to focus on our talent rather than our presentation. People who focus on social skills and fitting in always hate us because we usually refuse to conform or agree to be stupid
Yep. This exactly. I find most of us very chill peaceful people, it’s the covert contracts and irrational expectations that sow discord.
People don't like what they don't understand.
Most people have no experience with knowing an Intj.. so they have nothing to compare and Intj to.
They make connections like heartless, arrogant, narcissist, cold, suspicious, autistic, etc... whatever they can think of.
Rarely people can make the connection of empathetic, gifted, loyal, honest, trustworthy.. even after years of knowing the Intj.
I got those descriptions a lot from my school days until I turned 40. I keep a low profile around others, and I don’t share (or over share) what’s on my mind, and personal information. I still get some folks who continue to see me through the glasses they’ve had 20 years ago, but I don’t care for them, because they’re still stuck in 2006.
That really sounds like it
IRL many people IME like INTJs
We are competent, reliable, unassuming, loyal, calm, often we are kind or at least not aggressive.
We give good advice. We are interesting to talk to. We are deep. We are never bored. We are good at analysis.
We do not compete with extraverts for the talking space, but we hold our own. We support xNFPs, amuse and impress xSxPs. We get along well with xNTJs. We do not tend to upset xxFJs.
What's not to like?
Maybe it's just the people online using reddit/quora etc who judge us based on stereotypes.
Most likely, yes.
People online often try to compete with us - often unsuccessfully :) You know what I mean?
i dont actually know what you mean, good sir, could you elaborate some more please?
People online dont like us. But irl they're pretty chill
A lot of people don’t like direct, blunt and honest people even when it isn’t socially acceptable or advantageous. So yes we are unlikable if u want to reduce us to that little sentence!
Tbh I am pretty autistic and have done my best at masking. But at work I’m very much a rules person and it rubs people wrong that I like to follow policies.
Yes correct
Bro. We're so relied upon. Thats one. We have an attitude that hates being with people. We judge a lot internally we cant help it.
They like us from afar cause we are a bit dangerous to be with.
Finally being a power house makes u admirable. But not relatable.
Pls can you elaborate?
No
Very nice of you
Lmao
Do you seriously not see the irony of this?
No other type engage in this extent of delusional self glaze
I know your Fe blindspot makes you lack self awareness regarding other’s perception, but the social perception of the average INTJ is typically very far from “admirable, dangerous power house”
It’s closer to “socially inept autistic nerd”
yall are just too insecure in yourself and put up a pretend, we dont see no need to do so, whats the point of socialising with folks in our 'not real personality'?
Simpleton can never understand greater mind. So avoid trying to fit your limited mind to measure great ones. And autistic nerds are the people who run the world. Did you not know that? Fool.
Lmaoo this whole sub is peak comedy
Sometimes I think that there’s no way you’re all like this unironically then I keep getting proven wrong (with exceptions as some are clearly satirical)
I am glad you are finally catching onto the humor
As an ENTP, I honestly don’t think INTJs are “unlikeable” or anything like that. I think people are way too superficial to understand. Some of them only see the surface like serious, reserved, analytical, direct, a bit bitter or sarcastic people and they translate that into coldness or arrogance. But actually you’re selective, not indifferent and if some people can’t understand that, they’re the ones missing out on good company.
You don’t give superficial or cheap attention to someone you consider a real friend, and that’s one of your real golden traits.
If I had to be honest, I know the MBTI of some people in my office and the only woman who gets me and makes me smile is an ENTP F. She dominates the room and I find her personality very compatible with me.
Yeah! I think that it’s because we both learn a lot from each other, It’s a really balanced dynamic :)
I don’t care too much about being liked, but I understand the advantages of it in an office setting. I struggle making deep relationships with my coworkers, but I do try very hard to be “warm” at work and smile/laugh very often. I also try to keep the conversation about the other person and ask them questions (not grilling them) about themselves. This seems to help, but I do think there will always be some sort of an unapproachable air around me and I can’t exactly pinpoint how to minimize that at work.
Yep, in a professional setting it's a lot different. You sometimes need to be more extrovert and network with others.
About being called arrogant etc - yep, I was called that in my childhood. At around 15 I decided I need a mask, and learned social skills
I see
What are the social skills that helped you? I kinda have no idea what social skills even are
Confidence in that which you know isn't arrogance... it's just assured confidence.
So what 'social skill' did you learn? Pretending you don't know anything at all?
Is that a social skill.. or is that just dumbing yourself down to fit in?
Nope.
Social skills are the verbal and non-verbal tools used to communicate and interact effectively with others, encompassing listening, expressing ideas, reading body language and understanding social cues.
Strong social skills are crucial for personal and professional success and efficiently handling conflicts.
Yeah.. Intjs know social skills.. that's not the problem. The problem is the conflict of employing 'social skills' (social norms) and authenticity.
Intj are too often defined as arrogant which often is a misunderstanding for behaviors such as intelligence, confidence, detachment, dismissiveness.
You seem to be talking about the typical 'actual' arrogance of any teenager with an undeveloped mind and little life experience. In which case adopting 'social skills' simply refers hiding your me-centric tendencies..
People seldom understand that which is different and they tend to dislike what/who they don't understand. My solution was to not let myself be bothered by them or their opinions. Because in the end, that's all it is - their opinion. If they don't like me for being who I am, too bad. I don't care. Moving on...
but I dont even dislike the filthy INFJs, those pos.
This aggression will not stand, man.
I've been doing a lot of thinking and obseerving now that I have time.. we don't operate like most people. I have been noticing a lot of people make decisions on fleeting emotions, get involved in unnecessary chaos and drama, and don't think long term. Personally everything I do is intentional. Also personally I notice I mostly just speak when I need to. I would find myself speaking a lot in work meetings only because no one else would say it and it affected the end result. Also been called intimidating there..I'm still learning also.
We range between megalomania, complete disinterest, and hyper-efficiency, and avoidant neediness.
That makes sense
That's so me lol
I've been told that I act like a cold emotionless robot, I'm not friendly enough, I seem annoyed with people, and that I don't explain myself enough.
Probably all accurate, though I make an effort to pretend to be more outwardly kind now. I don't hate everyone but in terms of say a work situation, my focus is on work, not socializing.
You think only men? Haha you should hear some of the comments intj women get as soon as people get a taste of their actual selves.
Hahaha
There were times I was sitting on the hot seat for saying the same things the male managers said. Nothing insulting or mean, just direct, no nonsense, straightforward communication.
I never once saw any of them get lectures about feelings, sensitivity, or compassion.
Oof corporate speak for "you're a selfish cold hearted bitch".
Welp my so called "friends" (not anymore :) said it to my face after accusing me for a bunch other nonsensical stuff too.....teehee!
MBTI isn’t a measure of morality, empathy, or “likability.” It’s a rough preference model for how people process information and make decisions. Turning it into “this type is heartless” is just astrology with a superiority complex. People who do that are projecting bad experiences with individuals, not diagnosing a personality structure
If only everyone understood this.
It’s worth noticing that the replies blaming jealousy, inferiority, or fear all share one feature: they require no behavioral change from the speaker.
That should raise a flag.
What would be the effective behavioral change? I don't want to pander to their insecurities
The “behavioral change” isn’t pandering or shrinking yourself, and it’s not about winning over people who are committed to misunderstanding you.
It’s about noticing where your default mode creates friction and deciding—consciously—whether that friction is serving your goals.
For example:
• Being precise vs. being readable
• Being honest vs. being timely
• Being correct vs. being cooperative
None of those require you to fake warmth or play therapist. They require situational awareness.
And on the “instinctive refusal” point: you’re right that most people aren’t reacting to a label. They’re reacting to signals—flat affect, delayed responses, analytical framing where emotional mirroring is expected. Humans are pattern detectors; when signals don’t match the script, they fill in the gaps, often negatively.
The uncomfortable part is this: if you don’t manage those signals at all, other people will interpret them for you.
You don’t owe them accommodation—but if you want influence, trust, or smoother interactions, you do have to decide when being strategically legible matters more than being internally consistent.
That’s not pandering. That’s agency. atleast from what i myself have seen so far in my own life
Outstanding analysis, kudos sir
Yeah but it's not like people who dislikes us do so because "fuck intj", they don't even know about it. It's instinctive refusal, there's something deep going on
Shhh you can't call out astrology while supporting MBTI. There's no reliability or validity with MBTI concepts. People who believe it actually reveals our personality, how we process information, and make decisions are picking anecdotes of when it worked and not anything actually replicable by science. It's not scientific. The big 5 personality theory is what's supported.
But shh, we're not supposed to talk about that.
It’s not that we are unlikable it’s that people can’t handle when someone disrupts their ideas and most times their sub par way of life. One of the commenters said that we’re Polarizing and I have experienced this for years. To some, I’m amazing and they really appreciate me but to others they hate me seemingly for no reason. We also aren’t afraid of social ramifications when speaking our truths, no matter how unforgiving. I know I’m seen as arrogant or like I’m better than others but I don’t care i genuinely feel as though I’m better and nothing will change that. I am unapologetically myself at all times no matter who it offends. I recommend every INTJ embrace who they are and be unapologetic in their way of life.
I have found court jester model effective. By presenting the idea as a crazy random thought to be discounted or rejected to begin with, people actually may at least consider the idea itself. Humans are funny. When you tell them that the idea is not worthy, they start valuing them. When you tell them to ignore, they start listening. So it is psychological manipulation, but why not use it if it is effective and does not result in persecution for having a noble idea. Court jesters gets away with it. So we should do the same.
Exactly, it’s how I’ve become revered and beloved by many over the years. I don’t feel it’s court jestering in my case it’s more of me embracing my juvenile side in strategic doses.
Honestly, some of the responses you're getting here are some of the reasons why, lol. See you if can spot what I mean. If you can't, you've still got work to do.
I'm not interested in being likeable. I'm interested in not having problems with others. Keeping my mouth shut has worked wonders. I have advised it here in more depth many times. Also, trying to understand where others are coming from instead of just assuming I'm better, people are jealous, people don't like me because I'm competent, etc (again, see some of the comments here).
100% the lack of accountability/self awareness is pretty funny lol
You noticed and I did too. Some people do have genuine responses and others...yeah a little too edgy for me. At my age I'm actually trying to master social skills. I'm down to even take an online course. I need it for professional domain.
Also do you think being a E8 has something to do with being confrontational?
Regarding an online course - I once hired a life coach specifically with the request to “work on my F”. I didn’t know where else to turn but knew I needed it to do better in life.
I gained so much from that experience. Both directly and indirectly, it led me first to decipher and understand my own feelings, which admittedly I had been terrible prior. And second, I came to realize that our brain speaks two entirely different languages - logic and emotion. If someone is trying to converse via their emotional language and we respond (naturally) with our logical language, there is a massive disconnect and almost resentment towards us for doing so.
I became so much more fluent in my emotional language that now I have learned to speak both and know which is the appropriate language for the situation at hand. I’ve also passed this onto my children who have thrived with the mindset and understanding of these two separate and distinct communication and connection paths.
So maybe you could dig into something like that. Not to make you more “likeable” persay. But more adaptable. We have a tendency to be set in our ways, and this adaptability softens us in a good way without compromising our own integrity or principles.
This is great advice. When I get busy or stressed, I tend to neglect my Fi auxiliary and it shows- I get more cold and distant towards others. You have to know your own emotions to recognize them in others.
Aww, my very first award! Thank you!
Thanks for this information. Appreciate it
Talking less makes one look more important. Human mind sees value in scarcity.
Why should we care? I mean, seriously, who gives a fk? (Consider the source.) I taught myself to be social. I doubt my fellow workers have a clue as to my temperament type. Many think I am extroverted. I learned to display energy when I was a bartender to enhance my tips and pick up women. What I found was that picking up women in a bar was a bad idea. I had to see them the next day. Honestly, learning to be social in an office setting is a very good goal for an INTP. Start your day off by greeting people; just a "Good Morning" is sufficient. Take an interest in who they are. Consider it part of the job. Ask relevant questions now and again, and complement them on a new haircut or outfit. Learn to be socially appropriate. It will serve you well throughout your life.
Great advice!!!
ofcs we dont care irl, its just a fun topic of analysis.
I think you actually get judged less harshly as a man, because INTJ traits are generally considered male traits. Try being an INTJ woman for a while. A woman exhibiting typically male traits has always wound people up but the ones we have (being practical, blunt and rational) seem like red rags to bulls.
That does sound difficult also weirdly interesting.
Yes, that must be nightmare since women do force conformity a lot more than men. Women can be a lot more nasty about it, too. INFJ is the trait treasured amongst women as opposed to INTJ traits amongst men. However, in reality, INTJ is always going to be hated or excluded amongst anyone as long as they do not learn to adopt effective social masking skills.
emotions are error signals.
some people get more error signals than others.
we tend to get less and be more logical.
emotions often signal short term reward structures, logic signals long term reward structures.
emotional people focus on making a person feel better.
logical people focus on fixing or changing what caused them to feel bad. mechanically.
both are compassionate on different timelines. only one changes the landscape of future harm. only one makes people feel like they matter.
One friend of mine opened up why he's frustrated with me and it was that he can't read me. I know how to socialize and know how people see me but I always want peoples' perception on me as a blank and apparently it's frustrating haha. Another is that I always tell the truth as it is and how it would most likely end, this was also hated by my peers to the point that I'm the last person they want to ask about things hahaha.
Maybe this is just me but I can see it fitting in as an INTJ. For you OP maybe you are also intimidating physically which does not help with our overall vibe and the immediate social biases regarding our MBTI. Anyway being straightforward without much care for the feelings of others is not gonna adapt well socially since a lot of people likes to validate their emotions from others a lot.
When INTJ is quiet, we have a death stare. People get scared and always ask if we are upset or angry. We are not. We are just in our thoughts.
6'2 about 200. Physically intimidating could be a contributing factor
Dude, that's not "could be" you being 6'2 and ~200 is already intimidating regardless haha, I can definitely see why your peers have those reactions. Well, as a 30 yr old guy myself I constantly have to remind myself to act socially acceptable to be functional in certain situations when needed. Uncalled bias or not we could always learn and be smart about it to deal with such things, or we could always IDGAF haha.
Yeah you have a point there
You think? I'm five foot tall. I have to look and sound like a sociopath to get the same reaction you get just standing there with your arms crossed looking vaguely annoyed.
I'd still 100% smack your hand if you tried to steal my fries, though. Idk how much bigger you are.
Haha, this.
This is why lol
Could it be due to having high cognitive empathy but low emotional empathy (Te/Fi)? I'm sure you guys never intend to come off arrogant, or detached. It's just the way you appear to Fe doms who prioritize emotional empathy. I really appreciate Te doms, but it does take time and conative knowledge to better understand you guys. I dated a few Te doms (INTJ, E/INTPs) and and my friends/family would comment that they seem arrogant at times, but I usually don't think that since I know them on a much more personal level, and I recognize the underlying warmth and compassion that's often overlooked by others. (INFJ currently married to an INTJ)
I totally resonate. I think you're right
Big ego, lack of humility/humbleness, many smart intj but also many who think they are smarter than they actually are
Edit* wow after looking through the comments, they are all blaming other people not one actually pointed out any flaws 😂
Welcome to our sub
Thanks! I was actually a mistyped intj for most of my life but eventually figured out I’m intp. But I do relate to some aspects of you guys, but I’m not an intj once I figured out about cognitive functions
Judging by the responses you see here, it's better to not be an intj
Lmao nah what I’ve realized is it’s all about maturity/health. Every sub has toxic ppl but it seems especially the intj sub is full of nihilistic/underdeveloped ones. The intj I know in real life are all cool and successful
I don't think how much I can be likable defined by my personality. You can't expect monkeys to understand scientists (for the sake of example nothing to anyone).
I don't care how many people like me. It's like a childish wish to me now.
One thing I understand properly is I need only 1 or 2 who dear to me, are ones who can understand me properly and tell you the truth I am very happy about it.
For networking and connections in my opinion is more about what you bring on the table (value you can offer) and some personal connection with them that's it. No one comes here to understand you everyone has their own struggles in their life. So don't focus on those forks. Have a nice day by the way👍😁.
You too.
I do resonate with having only a few super close ones
Because most INTJs here are mistyped INTPs, ISTJs, or ISTPs who are also emotionally immature and are total logic-pricks.
Sometimes the posts and comments in this sub remind me of a pretentious website called Stack Overflow.
Haha omg
Is stack overflow more pretentious than Linkedin?
I am facts driven, i also dont care who looks good or bad in my pursuit of the most affective, efficient, and as close as i can with in the promoters i have available to me.
We aren't heartless. I have one in a jar on my desk.
I think it mostly comes from stereotypes and premade negative prejudices most of the time.
After being into MBTI for a while it seems there's a general current of thought in which INTJs are percieved as completely different human beings.
Hint, WRONG, INTJs are, surprise, normal people. They can be great friends, partners, coworkers, and so on. So that will change once people start treating people as such instead of a 16 personalities paragraph.
I'm not sure if we're unlikeable but I definitely chalk it up to being unwilling to get to know people and show some vulnerability. I think that's why people feel more guarded around us. I have people who told me they thought I was weird or judgemental before getting to know me. I have very little interest in people and I'm working on trying to be more open. But even so, I still approach this in a 'strategic' manner rather than a chill, 'see where the vibes lead us' kind of way. It's hard to let go and just see how things go. I miss a lot of cues and it's hard to sweet talk to people. A TON OF PEOPLE LIKE IT.
No. we see thru their facade and notice their weakness. We automatically judge it and not care, but they feel exposed and scared. So INTJ does scare people by existence.
-too serious.
-too pedantic.
-too much of a know-it-all.
-too perfectionist.
-we see things as how it is than experiencing it.
-can be too judgey and cynical.
-always correct which can get annoying.
-and just too prideful.
Because you are not trying to be liked and they are. If you wanted to be liked you would take into consideration mannerisms that make other people uncomfortable, like calling them out.
Right
Mostly why people stop talking to is either 1)I'm too dry for them or 2) their values don't align with mine (I'm mostly the one ending the ties with them in this case) orrr 3) I maintain such a stern expression I come off as creepy, Despite being an INTJ, I've developed relatively good Fe (by pretending to care and complimenting others on what their MBTI stereotype is)
INTJs are not unlikeable in general. INTJs might be unlikeable to people who are uncomfortable with those who have very low Fe (or more generally F). I find people with strong Fe, and to a lesser extent people with strong Fi, faaaarrrrr less likeable than people with strong Te or Ti.
Yes correct
But are we? People who get to know me often like me. Granted, it can take awhile.
Or people who bothered to take the time to actually listen and consider the bright deep thoughts we have on everything. Frankly, if they do listen to us with open mind, they are always impressed.
Not irl mostly in online spaces
I did just read the title but thanks god intj exist: they are the best authentic raw people who manage to survive in a meaningless world without having to fake stupidity. Their point of view is a calm light in a chaotic flow of noisy shadows.
Thanks
Our way of thinking is normally quite different to others. Often times we are just trying to do the best we can, we mean well but sometimes it doesn’t come off that way to others which causes that rift between ourselves and someone else. Miscommunication is usually why people don’t like us, I’ve noticed when I change how I communicate things I get much better results. The best thing I’ve discovered is that tailoring your social skills to the specific people you’re interacting with will do wonders to avoid conflict without completely abandoning who you are just to appease others.
Makes sense
social masking mimicking empathy is key to survival
Most definitely, we as INTJ’s are in a position to do it better than most because we see it as a challenge and are willing to do countless hours of research to become experts.
Im infj but I can sort of imagine the difference in the T
People already call 'infj's controversial, so it is NOT about your Fe, it's about the fact that most infjs ive met simply don't entertain dumb ass and ingenuine people and don't get ragebaited easily and know when to say 'no' to people who are just using us for their own gain.
But it's actually funny you mention infjs and intjs receiving so much hate when from what ive seen in real is the exact opposite. People always end up needing and relying on us and me and my friend who are infjs easily make friends without approaching first.
Yeah the hate I've seen is mostly in online spaces.
It must feel nice doesn't it? I wish this was true for me too haha
Well actually i'd rather not make friends so often, cuz i'd rather spend time alone but I guess something about my personality feels welcoming to others 😅
And to be fair people always approach me because I look 'helpless' (like some have stated) and shy, so I end up attracting extoverted friends the most 😬 whoops.
Cool. I'm not saying I have a shitty personality but just something about me pushes people away most of the time. Could be my unwelcoming aura
I mean, it can be a lot of things. But I wouldn't focus on what you're doing wrong, just that the right one will come along eventually. You clearly need someone who truly understands your character and sees the good intentions within it. I would just focus on improving yourself for your own sake, not for the sake of others. That's the only way you'll find joy and love within yourself. I know it sounds very zen, but trust me, it's true. It does take time though.
I unfortunately put a decent amount of energy into appearing warm and smiley at work, which is uncomfortable for me but easier on my coworkers. If I don’t, they will not help me with anything, and they exclude me.
This is better
edit: after reading this comment of mine again, perhaps I'm a bit unlikeable after all.
Ok got it
Ppl hate me when I’m too serious/critical in situations where I’m not expected to be serious/critical. They see me as difficult, arrogant and needlessly critical and therefore unlikeable.
I’m learning to hold my tongue unless I’m asked to offer an opinion. It’s not easy when being serious/critical is my default mode. I think way too much 24/7 to the point that my family thinks I’m autistic. I’m not diagnosed but I wouldn’t be surprised if I was somewhere close on the spectrum.
If ever I feel lonely from not having enough friends, I end up hurting loved ones, or my trait works to my disadvantage at the workplace, I would work on it more. I went through this when I was young, I’ve mellowed down a bit and I’ve definitely become more selective about where I show my trait, but at the core, I haven’t changed.
*Tldr: Being more unlikeable than the majority isn’t a problem if you have enough friends and you don’t feel that it’s holding you back in life.
No friends, lost contact with them. Haha
Dunno how old you are but you’ll definitely find a handful of friends who’ll appreciate you for who you are (the good version of you), given that you learn from your past mistakes. My learning experience involved intensive self introspection, self-hatred, acceptance and self control.
30+ its written in the post. When you get older it's almost impossible making a friend.
Ah, but colleagues to friends is definitely doable. I only have 2-3 friends from college remaining but apart from that, I’ve managed to make a few more at my workplace.
For me, being critical/offering insight at the right time and using this trait to help others at work (while making sure to save their face), and also having some stuff to talk about outside of work like hobbies worked.
My enneagram is 1w9. I care about other people’s well-being, so there’s that.
I’ve always had a lot of friends. Likeable, but still always felt on the fringe of society. I also just found out I’m an Otrovert. I’m an ONTJ if you will. Maybe that’s the social difference
Learnt a new word today
I havnt really had this experience tbh. People usually think I’m rude because I don’t talk a lot which means I must not like them. I’m just socially withdrawn and in my head a lot.
I understand how you feel. It's like you're seeking stability and balance in a world that's overwhelming you, and you can't figure out why. I'm trying to not care a little more, not completely, but a little more. Just enough to not feel bad, just right...
Those who rise above the crowd must expect resentment, not admiration.
Damn ok.
I have heard all my life that people are scared of me or find it hard to read me. Some say I am too deep, too blunt, and too honest. Now I have learned to accept this. It is what it is. There are some personality types who really like me (mostly Diplomats). For example, all my friends and my partner are Diplomats. They admire these traits and find them amazing. You just have to find the right people and ignore the rest 😊 (This is only my experience. There may be other personality types that also suit us, but I don’t have experience with them.)
We have intense death stare when dormant. So learning to put on fake smiley face satiates others.
just observe what ppl do and learn from the good ones, put on masks of others in suitable settings. but find the ones that works for you and doesn’t burn you out, obv naturally it’s harder to be something like ENFP/ESFJ than ENTP / ENTJs for example. not to say that they are better but sometimes some of the “skills” that they naturally possesses are more useful. ppl are very irrational animals sometimes facts are not enough we just need to deliver them the right way. i don’t think intjs “don’t care” at all, personally i care the way i am perceived and how that will impact me working with them and if it gets me to where i want etc, but if there is no goals / ambitions involved really idc…
Good points.
The lack of charisma is why we are disliked. But I am sorta a chameleon because I go out and party sometimes. Whenever I am intoxicated I am like an INTJ god with rizz. Some other fellow INTJs I know report similar experiences
Are you generally good at attracting women?
I feel like I only am either when I am on my ADHD meds or I am intoxicated.
Ok
Unapproachability and difficulty in warming up to others, a hard exterior shell. A big sense of superiority too which is a turn off. Just bad vibes and low social energy and weirdness.
You do you peeps. Fk em
Well, first of all we HATE people and we judge a LOT. Our stare is very intimidating. Why would I even care if they like me or not? I don’t even like them anyways.
In my case, not only I observe behavior of other people but myself as well. I tend to analyze my own behaviors a lot and especially the way I approach or respond. And I don’t think we have a control on how other people sees us.
At work, I barely talk, communicate or engage to any conversations and my colleagues don’t mind at all. I even managed to get friends with them without any effort from my side. They would DM me and I know that they notice how deep I converse with them and that small talks won’t work for me. They really appreciate me for being me.
You don’t have to change or do something with your personality as long as you’re being true to yourself. You will eventually find your own people but do know as well that you don’t need a lot friends and be friends to everyone. Don’t mind them and do your own sh*t. People will hate and like you for all the right and wrongs. That’s it!
Thanks for the input
i wouldnt say we hate people, we are mostly unbothered by them.
By talking less, people get interested and may approach to find out INTJ treasure. So using silence as a tool is one way.
F social dynamics - it was invented by weak and manipulative heard mentality.
We are stuck in current problems because of the same heard and its social dynamics. F it.
INTJ are usually disliked and excluded when they share their mind too openly or sometimes just by existing. Our presence threatens them. It has everything to do with evolution of homo sapiens and how they came to dominate to kill off all other homo species on this planet. Conformity and ability to believe in shared fiction is what made human species dominant and it is required trait. We do not conform to that often as our mind allow us to see thru bs. So we are the threat by existence for seeing thru bs.
Here is the unvarnished reality of why the "Ego/Monster" label sticks:
1. The "Competence" Threat
Most people derive their self-worth from being liked; you derive yours from being right and capable. When you point out a flaw in a system or a person’s logic, they don’t see a "helpful fact." They see a predator attacking their ego. Your lack of a visible emotional reaction makes you look like a "monster" because, to them, only something non-human lacks the "decency" to feel bad about being blunt.
2. The Efficiency vs. Empathy Gap
3. The "Unreadable" Factor
Humans fear what they can't track. Because you don't broadcast your "Fi" (Introverted Feeling) externally, you have a "resting strategist face." People fill that silence with their own insecurities. If you aren't smiling, they assume you're judging. If you're judging, you're "egotistical."
We tend to be quiet, don't emote much and make considered decisions in a world that values people who act on emotion and wear their hearts on their sleeves. People find it unsettling for you to be an unknown quantity. Even utter bastards are liked if they are outgoing and unapologetically show who they are.
Think of the classic hero - dumb as a brick, loud, ruled by emotion, resolves issues in a physical fight. We are the opposite of that, so what does that make us? It reminds me of the film Unbreakable. Of course, it's completely unfair, there's no need for those traits to be villainous, but we're taught those associations throughout popular culture and when others see that in us, what are they going to think?
I try to avoid the pigeon-hole by smiling, laughing and joking a lot, even when all I want to do is take a step back, listen and think.
I know that I can come across as intimidating when I listen to people closely. They expect interruption to allow themselves to gather their thoughts, get feedback on what they're saying and get disconcerted to be given all the space they need and limited feedback (but not flat affect).
Others don't like that I make fine distinctions. Most people want some polarized response, yes/no, love/hate, fine/ban. They don't want to take the time to think about issues and consider other options or where lines should be drawn based on rational thought rather than the most superficial examination or gut instinct.
I say this with love - if you don’t understand by now that social skills, networking, and being “likable” are a huge part of success in life, then you are not as astute as you think you are. There’s a time and place for authenticity. The workplace is not one of them.
Those social goals or success usually have no value to most INTJ mind. So the question is how to make them important in our mind. Bottom line, do you want to live or die? That is where it goes ultimately. Socially fitting in is important even if it is all fake since that is the only way to survive in many ways.
Because we are the only competent ones, maybe instead of talking, do some actions
Do you like other people or do you just want tbings from other people (such as companionship and support)? That's why
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Did you read the first two words?
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'My perspective'
That stereotype is on the same spectrum as people who say "Si is about memories". Fe trickster does make us naturally indifferent to the emotions of others and our connection with them, but it is a whole different game from being "heartless" there is a lot of difference between an INTJ and an asshole, one is a personality type the other, a genuine asshole. I cant deny that we can come off as aloof or unlikable, because we are always in our heads and most of the time dont know how to interact, but i have never really thought of adopting different traits js for the sake of people to "like me"
Thanks for explaining
No aggression, no curses, no slangs used, but a simple fact based statement is all it takes to anger unstable normal human mind. They perceive that as a mental attack. So they respond in kind, but they do not stop to consider the actual merits. Asshole person may actually attack, slander, cuss, or do so much other damages while cool and calm statement from INTJ can elicit much more hot response from the listener.
I don’t think you should be asking like minded people this question. You’re going to get an answer you yourself could come up with
the trick is not to give a shit what 'other people' think.
I get it. I only wish this trick would actually work IRL esp at workplace.
it does work
do you *really* care what they think?
sucks too be yall.
The only INTJs who I know are “liked” take a sociopathic approach to interpersonal relations. They see it as a game or there is upside, or it’s useful, for them, to be liked. They strategize and put on a mask and put on a performance to be charismatic or “nice”. It’s mentally draining, it’s not their real self, but the upside is big enough to take the mental hit for this exercise.
Otherwise with regular socializing without millions on the line … meh why should I go thru the effort of putting on an act day in day out.
dark triad or machiavelli method does work really well on most other humanity. Not likely effective against other INTJ
My opinion, I couldn’t care less about “others” liking me lol
quiet and weird
I don’t think the issue is being “unlikeable.”
I think the issue is that many people mistake internal coherence for coldness, and emotional self-sufficiency for a lack of heart.
I’m not trying to be liked. I’m trying to be coherent with myself.
And that difference changes everything. INTJs tend to live from a very clear internal axis. We don’t adjust our opinions to fit in, we don’t soften our thoughts to make others comfortable, and we don’t express emotions just to make them visible or socially legible. For some people, that’s unsettling. When they don’t understand what they’re seeing, they project: arrogance, narcissism, distance, intimidation.
I’ve heard all of those labels. And honestly, they don’t concern me.
I would rather be faithful to myself a thousand times over than build a more palatable version of who I am for others.
This life is mine, and I live it from internal coherence, not from the need to please. That doesn’t mean a lack of emotions. It means my emotions are not there for external validation.
I don’t think most social friction with INTJs is really about MBTI. It’s about mismatched expectations. Some people expect adaptation, constant explanation, and emotional reassurance. We offer clarity, consistency, and boundaries. Not everyone knows what to do with that.
And that’s fine.
Not everyone has to understand me. Not everyone has to feel comfortable around me.
My responsibility isn’t to be likeable; it’s to be honest with myself.
Have you read this sub?
Edgelords pretending to be INTJ giving us a bad name.
Yes the mistyped ones
I learned to understand where people are coming from. I base decisions off of logic but I learned to interpret how it can make others feel. I might not have the emotions they have, but I can always work to understand them. Knowing the non-verbal cues is useful.
I suggest studying interpersonal communication methods. It is beneficial. I can better understand what people feel and I know how to change my stance to inflict desired responses from others. I can lure people towards or repel people from me. This works great at gathers or in crowded places. Don't look at their reactions as logic. Look at it as programmed responses to given stimuli. Then you can better understand others.
It is the lack of emotion that makes people assume bad things about INTJs. People fear what they cannot read and understand. People gravitate to what is familiar. You can mimic it. The only logical reason to mimic it is to get a desired outcome. That is the only reason why I put effort into knowing the unspoken rules of interaction.
I do use the ability for good and bad. I can calm people down or make them madder than they were before. You can better control situations around you to get a better outcome. Just don't expect it to be your preferred outcome. You can instill some parts of your plan with compromise unless they are aimless. Then it will be your planned outcome.
Because we see how stupid and ridiculous everyone else is and they can sense we don't like them. 🤷
How old are you? I would’ve felt that way in my teens and 20s a bit. Now I’m in my 30s and I’m probably one of the most likeable people I know lol (not even kidding). I get hit up weekly to hang out and get advice from, people see me as a successful and level headed person. Immature intjs are of a different breed.
I don't think so if that really is the case, my INTJ girlfriend (childhood friend) has a super cute personality and I always loved her for that. I feel INTJs have this cute lovable side of them hidden somewhere, not everyone can unlock them easily. And I do agree with the egoistic thing, they simply take challenges and even a minor of an unintentional disrespect (even jokes) personally. Anyways, however it is, I've always liked my girlfriend the way she has ever been.
We? Rather you. I already conquered all tribes and manipulated some women into a harem.