It's beet juice on the sutures. Might be tricky to patent that. And probably not too useful if it only gets superficial infections. If it can indicate deep ones, it's potentially useful. But, regardless, a very smart idea and very simple to implement in areas with less medical literacy.
EO sterilisation is currently the bane of my life.
Many companies are moving from EO to mixed EO inert gas because of the risks of ethylene oxide as a product (it really isn't pleasant). They are coming back and saying that inks aren't changing colour as they used to, and we are finding that they are using 10-15% of the EO they used to and replacing the rest with high pressure, superheated CO2 - when the concentration of the chemical we are detecting reduces, obviously the reaction to it reduces accordingly.
There are significant efforts within the industry to come up with a stable indicator for the new process.
Yes it is certainly an unpleasant method of sterilisation. However, really the only other way of bulk sterilisation (pallet/ container size) is gamma irradiation, which has its own problems.
Both have the advantage of being able to penetrate packaging where Hydrogen Peroxide or steam don't. But I honestly suspect that hybrid EO/inert gas is going to be the way forward for medical solutions (gamma for soft fruit irradiation).
It is a game of catch up at the moment and we will get there but it is still a developing situation
We are working on a project for clean rooms to do Gas Plasma periodic sterilisation, with high intensity UVC overnight (our part is combined indicators). That is a good solution for a part of the industry, although UVC tends to do a number on long chain polymer coatings for walls and floors, but that can be mitigated against.
The other thing is that EO is governed by an entirely different standard compared to the rest of the techniques.
Steam, gamma, gas plasma etc, are all considered "sterile" of the process conforms to the ISO 11140 Standard
For EO, because dosages, dwell times, exposure rates vary so much, the process still requires biological swabbing and culture growth to ensure a sufficient reduction in microorganisms.
Industrially we would use synthetic colour former s that change with acidity and then sensitisers that can dial that pH change in very accurately (enough to determine between differing types of acids/bases, chemical make up etc).
The dressing itself (because it will be a known substrate/ coat weight etc) can also be used with a colour densimeter to very accurately guage the degree of colour change, that would give an accurate value for pH.
For example we make an ink for the recycling of expensive pharmaceutical products (think €10k cancer drugs etc). This detects how long a product has been above a reference temperature and thus if it is out of bounds for recycling.
We do this through some complex chemistry that creates a colour change and a reference colour.
The variance between the reference colour and the indicator patch gives a time/temp reading (really just an energy absorbance level, that allows a decision to be made to allow those drugs back into the supply chain
I imagine if they were going to use this as a product they'd make sure there were no macronutrients that bacteria could feed on, I'm not sure exactly what the compound responsible for changing color in ph is. And you'd definitely need a way to sterilize it first, yes.
So a beet juice based suture would change colors relative to the pH of the wound so that would be its way to signal infection. It should be able to be useful on deeper wounds but I'm don't know if the suture itself needs to extend down into the wound and healing area itself or if it can remain in the general proximity
Yes, I just mean if it could detect a pH change deeper down and have the whole suture change color, that could be useful, as a very superficial infection involving the skin is typically pretty easy to spot visually as is... But it probably wouldn't matter much since the skin sutures are so superficial anyway.
When you see titles/headlines about a young person "inventing" something groundbreaking in school. They're almost always just making a version of something that has already been tried before and found not to be practical when done in that way.
Sadly it's often the school admin and media that makes it seem like a huge thing, despite the student usually knowing they're just proving something.
Hell, when you see titles/headlines of adults inventing something groundbreaking it's often an idea that was already out there and their version of it never makes it to market because of practicalities.
The kind of science journalism that the general public likes focuses on imaginative storytelling, so adding a genius kid in the mix when possible just amplifies that story.
Most of the colour change mechanisms for indication have prior art ( I run a company making colour changing inks), finding something truly innovative is rare (but not impossible).
It may be possible to patent as an entire solution rather than simply the colour changing part, but it depends very much on the application.
The other thing, and we have to be honest here, is that in many cases patients are really just a waste of money. They make lawyers rich, are virtually impossible to defend (especially against companies that have enormous legal budgets or manufacturers in countries that just don't care).
I work in patent law (but not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, etc etc). Most of our work is for massive companies who have infinite money. As a solo inventor, getting a patent would be very expensive (like 5 figures) and probably wouldn't really benefit you in the long run.
Seconded. This is part of why I have a job, because a lawyer will just tell you to put all your trade secrets out there as patents when sometimes it's best to stfu
The whole NCIS "run it through the GCMS and we will see what it is" is only partially true. Adding different chemical reactions that have an effect on, say viscosity, or preservation, can really obscure the mechanism of colour change.
Fundamentally though, if anyone big or determined enough wanted to they could bankrupt us in lawyers fees fighting a patent. The main reason they don't is that the ink part is really low value and not worth the effort. Easier to get the IP via acquisition
Yes. At least in the US you have to have a patent application submitted before showing the world what you have. Otherwise it's public information and won't be granted a patent.
She became CEO for VariegateHealth. But she is the only employee and company website is no more active. She seems still in U Iowa and has other inventions. I don't think that suture has much value although it's a good idea. But good thing is that she's still active in her endeavor. Hopefully she'll be successful in the future.
Reddit accounts made in the last few years follow that format. It's just how reddit does it, not bot accounts. I mean, bot accounts likely just use the default name most of the time but so do normal peopple.
I try my best not to upvote posts like because of this — like all the people posting pictures of the guy who intervened with the shooting in Australia. They’re almost always karma farmers, I go and upvote comments though lol.
Wouldn’t a bandage cover the sutures?? And aren’t bandages supposed to be regularly changed? And also people who get wounds ARE trained on what to look for: heat, pain, swelling, and discharge
And also people who get wounds ARE trained on what to look for: heat, pain, swelling, and discharge
People who get wounds are trained?
Uh, want to try that again?
You're ignoring that many people don't go to the hospital. Many people self-treat. Many people don't follow medical advice, don't take their medicine, etc.
If you had a bandage that could show you a color that says "infection" it could then help people seek medical attention when it's needed. People who might otherwise ignore it until it got much worse.
Not much clinical value. Like light surface infection is mostly harmless. Most people can beat it with your own immune system. Even a bit deep tissue infection, your body may still be able to deal with it.
The answer here is really simple, just like it usually is for posts like this. It's a great idea and execution for a high school student, it's a great stepping stone towards being more scientifically minded, but its not actually useful in the real world. It's a suture soaked in beet juice, she is not the first person to have thought of this. It can only detect surface level infections that touch it, which are already incredibly easy to detect with your eyes.
It’s an interesting science fair experiment but nowhere close to a viable product. These are just sutures soaked in beet juice which change color due to a rise in the pH. But it’s not super accurate, not all infections cause a pH change, and there are other ways to detect similar infections.
Is it a warning sign though? Like when does the color change as opposed to other signs and symptoms. If it’s the same time then it’s basically useless.
Like “mm yes the infected wound is infected” helps no one but the person making more money off of the more expensive suture.
Medically it is pretty useless. Most infections are missed because nobody is checking not that it is hard to tell. If someone is checking to see the suture color who is educated enough to make a medical decision on it… they also can make that decision without it. By the time the suture color change was obvious so should the other signs of infection and deep infections wouldn’t be able to be seen at all. Also this adds in a false positive rate where non infected wounds may be errantly reopened if the suture ended up triggering or having the color adulterated and sutures can also crust over easily to where they aren’t easy to see in the first place.
I could see this being useful in home settings though. If someone goes home after surgery and uses these sutures, they would be able to tell if the wound is hurting from infection or just because it hurts. I actually thought I had an infection after a skin graft, but when I went to the doctor immediately (I worked at the hospital so I just took a 30 minute break and walked down), they said it was fine. It was just swollen because it was healing.
If I had a suture that changed color like that, I wouldn't have felt the need to go get it checked and I wouldn't have wasted my time.
That said, it probably would take too long to change anyway. But still, I don't think it's completely useless.
If there is any doubt they should come in. You don't realize this increases the risk of both people coming in because they think it is infected when it isn't, but also people staying at home because they think it isn't infected, when it is. It could end up killing more people due to deep seated infections or failure to notice a change, but since they were told that there would be no infection if the color didn't change, then they will just stay home until they are septic. This is likely more dangerous than it is worth and it is something that could have been easily implemented in bandages fifty years ago with older technology as all it is is a Ph test, which also is not a standard way of determining infection or not and I doubt it would be useful for all infections.
Also the part of the suture you can see is NOT the part touching the area that is most likely to be infected also making this useless....
If you look into her you'll quickly find out why this got pushed as far as it did. She was competing at the height of the BLM movement, she's a black woman, and part of her pitch as to why this "invention" is useful was a spin on black power.
The short of it is that she's a racist and happened to be trying to win a science fair when anyone of her race and gender, and espousing her brand of racism, was instantly catapulted to the front. Fortunately she didn't end up even placing at the national fair, though they elected her a a "spokeswoman" for the winners.
Am doctor. It's still useless, because if someone walks into my office just because their suture changed color I'm still going to have to check the wound for signs of infection. If there are no signs of infection, then no change in management.
So why not just educate the person who is somehow already checking their wound (supposedly thoroughly enough to note color change in these theoretical sutures) the normal signs of infection.
These color changing sutures would have to have extensive research done to prove that the color change alone is an accurate predictor of infection. The evidence would have to be ridiculously strong and consistent to warrant a change in treatment in the absence of any clinical signs of active infection.
Couldn’t the material react to an elevated white blood cell count? I’ve been put on antibiotics based on a high white blood cell count even when the other rapid tests showed negative.
1) Reddit sub Headline says 'bandage can detect infection'
2) Picture headline says ' it's a new type of Suture'
3) Says ** "she invented a thread that changes colour if a wound is infected **
The hyperbole on this is ridiculous. Dressings and wound treatments that can not only alert to an unseen infection but can also have say antibiotics/painkillers etc embedded into them have been around for decades, the same goes for the thread used for the 'Suture' Which in English means stitch.
Edit S/
Getting a patent doesn't come with the protection people think it does. You need to be able to defend your patent when someone tries to market a close copy. That's why so many patents are sold to big companies that can afford to defend them, unlike the individual inventor.
It's probably least useful in hospitals, where there are eyes on things. Probably very useful for patients at home in areas with poor medical literacy. Instead of describing an infected wound, you can simplify with "call if the sutures change color".
I have a few questions about this as someone who works in a clinical laboratory. First of all I just wanted to point out that sutures and bandages are separate things. Second of all, how? Is it detecting immune response/inflammation? Is it detecting toxins produced by pathogenic bacteria? Metabolic products? Antigens? There is no way this could be a one-size-fits-all type of product.
I remember reading about this years ago. In the original article and photo, she’s was still a kid. It was admirable. I can see a lot of challenges with it. Usually the superficial sutures don’t stay in for long. I feel like it’d be difficult to maintain accuracy. Also? usually by the time the infection starts to develop all of the tell-tale signs are obvious. But it’s still super cool that she’s on to something, and was at such a young age. I think with her interests and drive she’ll do big things.
To my knowledge it cannot be patented once shared with the public. sadly should have patented ahead of time. I am not a lawyer though I am a career entrepreneur
hey there, I'm a clinical scientist/researcher with 20+ yeas of experience.
there's nothing new here, beet juice and (and many other plant pigments) change color with differing pH level. i can think of so, so many things that would immediately kill this idea.
pH is a horrendous way to determine infection. wound pH being high is not always an indication of infection, and having false negatives at a high rate immediately kill any effectiveness here.
why sutures? these are tiny, sometimes under the skin, sometimes removed early, covered in blood... and then, a change in color, with color being a very subjective thing... absolutely horrible idea.
When you hear students win science fairs, do you go around saying, “This isn’t anything new. There’s nothing to celebrate here.”?
She literally got published on the Smithsonian Magazine due to her research. There’s a lot more to it than what you’re making it out to be. She’s at a starting point, of course there are some further areas of study. It’s not perfect, but it’s a cool find. That’s the point of these types of science competitions/exhibitions.
You said you’re a clinical scientist/researcher with 20+ years of experience. Will you share some of your accolades with us? Surely, you must have some similar achievement, if you’re diminishing this one?
Because this girl made it into the Smithsonian, based on research she started at 17. If you’re even smarter than her, I can’t imagine what you did by that age.
Drop some links for us, show us what a REAL scientist is capable of.
EDIT: If you want to respond to this comment, I welcome it. But please don’t immediately block me after. If you are so sure of your argument, give me the opportunity to respond. Thank you 😄
Come on bro this is participation trophy stuff. This student might go on to do great things and she should be encouraged to do so but this product has very little practical use.
It should be celebrated because for a child, it's an incredible achievement and she did a great job following the scientific method, identifying a problem, and devising a solution.
Most people are not trying to diminish her achievement in the context of her age and education, they are trying to inform others that this is not a new discovery, nor is it useful to actual doctors. Because not all infections cause pH changes, this could end up causing more harm than good if patients rely on it too much. Even if these were used, wounds would still need to be closely monitored, which would also catch any infection this is capable of detecting, which defeats the entire purpose of using them.
Yes, we should absolutely support students in STEM, but we also shouldn't be lying to them and telling them that sutures soaked in beet juice are going to change the world.
As I asked everyone else, if you think her accomplishment is so easy, what have you done that’s similar?
Please provide your feat with a verifiable source.
She landed in the Smithsonian magazine for her research, so a source of similar standing should suffice.
If you’re going to respond with some high minded rhetoric that tries to deflect from the fact that you have nothing to show for yourself, don’t bother, I’m going to redirect back to this point.
Everyone agrees she did fantastic, everyone agrees it was a good idea, nobody is saying her accomplishment is easy, whatever problem you see is entirely in your head. Unfortunately, not every good idea ends in a useful product.
You sound like someone who peaked in high school and can't accept the fact that education sometimes involves discovering things that have already been discovered. I'm sorry for whatever happened that gave you such a strong "little man" complex. I wish you luck in life.
Not sure if you’re the one downvoting everyone, but I was excited enough for this girl when this surfaced years ago. Enough so that I saved the article. It was a brilliant idea for her age and I’m sure she will thrive. That said, I do work in medicine - for the past 12 years. And with two of those more recent years working in general surgery and trauma. So I’ve seen the open abdomens, the internal sutures, the closures, and the superficial sutures. As well as both the intra-abdominal infections and abscesses, and the superficial ones. I’m reasonably qualified to point out what would or wouldn’t work. Ideas like this are never perfect from the get go. And the only way to get there is to understand the flaws. People are allowed to give an honest critique, while still appreciating what she thought of. No need to get so bent about it.
Hi, I'm a doctor.
I can't see this being a useful indicator versus just having the wound monitored by someone with even the most basic instructions.
That being said, innovation is cool and props for trying, but there's very little real-world utility here.
If you are a doctor, then you know that medicine evolves over time. You should also be aware of the potential this holds for black patients, if the kinks are ironed out.
The article does not add any meaningful specifics that would make this any more useful. If anything, looking at the side by side comparisons makes me incredibly doubtful that most people could discern enough color change to be a useful flag for infection.
Please feel free to explain why you think this has a specific potential for black patients, because I don't see anything that would make it somehow useful in darker skin tones when it is already not useful in lighter skin tones.
You're trying to put words in my mouth to try and paint me as some awful prick, to what end I really don't know.
No idea why you seem to want to lash out at people over the internet because they have a different perspective on a neat (but not very useful) science fair project, but I hope you find some introspection at some point.
You can make assumptions about my supposed lack of research history to try and discredit me but that is not the basis of my argument. I am not trying to discredit the invention because I don't like it but because the real world application of it does not exist at present, and it is fundamentally misleading to represent them as something that does already have clinical applications. And that is something I am (unfortunately) qualified to comment on. While articles from science fairs like this are often nice feel-good stories, they usually fall flat pretty quickly in the transition to applied science.
It falls into the same realm as an article touting "Teenage Scientist finds that Household bleach kills XYZ Cancer cells." ...by dumping some bleach on some cancer cells in a dish in a lab.
While that may sound cool at first, the whole thing falls completely on its face when you consider that there is no bridge to application. There is no utility in the finding because there is no way to inject bleach into cancer without also killing people.
This story is much of the same, unfortunately. The idea of pH-reactive suture material potentially indicating an infection does not address any of the following:
1) Impregnation of pH indicators into Standard-of-Care suture materials. The materials she used would not be appropriate for suture material, which the article acknowledges.
2) Live Tissue reactions. She did not test the reliability of the pH indicator in real cases of infection, so who knows if it even reliably works in live specimens. What about false positive rates?
3) Timeline of Indication. If the color change only triggers after infections are significant enough to show obvious signs of infection, then the color change is a useless finding.
4) Risk vs Benefit. The whole idea of new medical interventions is based on the concept of "Better than standard of Care" so if using these sutures does not lead to a net benefit over standard techniques, then there's no point in using them.
5) Practice Changing Effect. Does the implementation of these sutures actually change how infection is approached and managed? If I still plan on having patients come in to have the wound assessed, does the color change really affect standard of care in a meaningful way?
There's a lot going into it. There's more to think about when discussing changes in medical management than just "that sounds neat lets do it."
And it's usually the implementation of things that eats 90% of the effort, and really sets apart a "good idea" from a "good innovation."
I could spin you a great idea about solar powered cars, with proposals on how to design and make them, but I hope you'd agree that the real magic and impressive work would come from making a solar powered car effective rather than possible.
And to your edit: At no point did I attempt to belittle someone online. I did not call anyone stupid or insult their intelligence. I did not insinuate that they would not have a great future and do great things. I directly and specifically pointed out that the suggested benefits of a proposed idea do not line up with the real world, from a perspective given to me by real world experience and education.
To your insinuation that rural doctors only practice in rural areas because they "couldn't hack it," I would say you don't really seem to understand how getting a job in medicine actually works and probably would do best not speaking authoritatively on something you don't have much knowledge about. Most docs I've met chose rural areas because they prefer the setting to live in for various reasons like any other job, as well as a generally increased level of autonomy. For me, I was tired of living in the city, and for generalists like myself most find it much more rewarding and challenging to manage more complex cases with closer personal relationships to my patients, which is something that you often miss out on in urban settings saturated with specialists.
So much douchebagery in the comments. Like lets first minimize her contribution, and then imply that only ignorant or stupid people would find it useful, as if the article doesn't say that it already exists and it is cost prohibitive though. I read her wiki, not the best source of info, but a product that would be especially useful to people of color whose skin tones might not show redness as easily as fair skinned people. Hugely beneficial and that is without discussing disparities in healthcare. Of course the assholes are out in force on this one.
It's actually rather stupid. There's a very good reason this has not already been implemented. I'm happy for someone with proper medical background to correct me but I'm pretty sure what I'm about to say is accurate.
This is essentially just sewing thread (string) dipped in a reagent. That reagent changes colour when chemicals produced by certain bacteria come into contact with it. The problem is this - we don't use thread for sutures any more, specifically because they absorb moisture and become a breeding ground for bacteria. We use a kind of single filament plastic suture now, which is sterile and cannot absorb anything, either bacteria or reagent.
Basically, this would not prevent infections. It would more likely cause infections. This is just a nonsense feel-good story with no practical benefit.
I make colour changing inks for a living, primarily for packaging and medical sterilisation. This application hadn't occurred to me, however there is generally an offgassing of volatile organic compounds that should be detectable and not require a colour changing suture (possibly also a change in pH because of bacterial infection). Both of those are easy chemical indicators to detect.
I agree application is important, and I haven't studied her solution, but it is of academic interest in my brain
The easiest way, as you say would be to monitor the pH along a capillary strip (thread or suture), but provided the dressing was kept in an inert environment prior to application (not difficult) a simple gas based test would work, especially with dressings that were going to be applied for a couple of days.
Difficulty is detecting that change as a part of infection as opposed to other environmental factors, but even then I would argue it is an indicator (not a dosimeter) and that a false positive result is preferable to a false negative
Shouldn't that have been patented already?
It's beet juice on the sutures. Might be tricky to patent that. And probably not too useful if it only gets superficial infections. If it can indicate deep ones, it's potentially useful. But, regardless, a very smart idea and very simple to implement in areas with less medical literacy.
Big Beet will silence her at any moment.
Don’t forget about their oligopoly with bears and battlestar galactica
Counterargument: Big beet is sponsoring her research
Yeah I feel like Big Beet would be very welcoming of a new source of demand for their product.
Lol big beet has no power where I live... Wait fuck someones at the door... TELL THE WORLD MY STORYEUSUDNJKXK
[this message sent from a deceased reddit user]
Damn, guess they got beet to death.
He may turnip some day
I gotta get to the root of this... it's tuburned into my mind and I need closure!
He chard have saved himself. Snitches get stitches.
Is that... a DCC reference?
🦶🏻🫦
Glurp Glurp, motherfucker.
Why? They stand to gain tons from this.
It's big turnip you gotta worry about
I bet big beet is big sugar
How would you even sterilize beet juice?
Gamma radiation or ethylene oxide, same as the sutures, most likely.
EO sterilisation is currently the bane of my life.
Many companies are moving from EO to mixed EO inert gas because of the risks of ethylene oxide as a product (it really isn't pleasant). They are coming back and saying that inks aren't changing colour as they used to, and we are finding that they are using 10-15% of the EO they used to and replacing the rest with high pressure, superheated CO2 - when the concentration of the chemical we are detecting reduces, obviously the reaction to it reduces accordingly.
There are significant efforts within the industry to come up with a stable indicator for the new process.
Not to mention the issue with EO release around sterilization sites and disease clusters around them
Yes it is certainly an unpleasant method of sterilisation. However, really the only other way of bulk sterilisation (pallet/ container size) is gamma irradiation, which has its own problems.
Both have the advantage of being able to penetrate packaging where Hydrogen Peroxide or steam don't. But I honestly suspect that hybrid EO/inert gas is going to be the way forward for medical solutions (gamma for soft fruit irradiation).
It is a game of catch up at the moment and we will get there but it is still a developing situation
We are working on a project for clean rooms to do Gas Plasma periodic sterilisation, with high intensity UVC overnight (our part is combined indicators). That is a good solution for a part of the industry, although UVC tends to do a number on long chain polymer coatings for walls and floors, but that can be mitigated against.
Lead rooms. Or gold coating on everything? It's inert.
And it's less an issue if the facility is in the boonies... issue is a non-trivial number are in the middle of residential areas.
The other thing is that EO is governed by an entirely different standard compared to the rest of the techniques.
Steam, gamma, gas plasma etc, are all considered "sterile" of the process conforms to the ISO 11140 Standard
For EO, because dosages, dwell times, exposure rates vary so much, the process still requires biological swabbing and culture growth to ensure a sufficient reduction in microorganisms.
Couldn't they just retort it?
Devices shipped sterile typically are not autoclaved, but that is the standard for resterilizing equipment at the hospital.
Good question, I'm not sure how delicate whatever is responsible for the color change with pH is
Industrially we would use synthetic colour former s that change with acidity and then sensitisers that can dial that pH change in very accurately (enough to determine between differing types of acids/bases, chemical make up etc).
The dressing itself (because it will be a known substrate/ coat weight etc) can also be used with a colour densimeter to very accurately guage the degree of colour change, that would give an accurate value for pH.
For example we make an ink for the recycling of expensive pharmaceutical products (think €10k cancer drugs etc). This detects how long a product has been above a reference temperature and thus if it is out of bounds for recycling.
We do this through some complex chemistry that creates a colour change and a reference colour.
The variance between the reference colour and the indicator patch gives a time/temp reading (really just an energy absorbance level, that allows a decision to be made to allow those drugs back into the supply chain
Wouldn't introducing biological matter into sutures increase the risk of an infection?
Always thought the point is to keep that stuff as sterile as you can.
I imagine if they were going to use this as a product they'd make sure there were no macronutrients that bacteria could feed on, I'm not sure exactly what the compound responsible for changing color in ph is. And you'd definitely need a way to sterilize it first, yes.
As long as she doesn’t say Beet Juice 3 times, she will be ok.
Apple patented a rectangle with a screen on it. Patents are pretty flexible.
So a beet juice based suture would change colors relative to the pH of the wound so that would be its way to signal infection. It should be able to be useful on deeper wounds but I'm don't know if the suture itself needs to extend down into the wound and healing area itself or if it can remain in the general proximity
Yes, I just mean if it could detect a pH change deeper down and have the whole suture change color, that could be useful, as a very superficial infection involving the skin is typically pretty easy to spot visually as is... But it probably wouldn't matter much since the skin sutures are so superficial anyway.
When you see titles/headlines about a young person "inventing" something groundbreaking in school. They're almost always just making a version of something that has already been tried before and found not to be practical when done in that way.
Sadly it's often the school admin and media that makes it seem like a huge thing, despite the student usually knowing they're just proving something.
Hell, when you see titles/headlines of adults inventing something groundbreaking it's often an idea that was already out there and their version of it never makes it to market because of practicalities.
The kind of science journalism that the general public likes focuses on imaginative storytelling, so adding a genius kid in the mix when possible just amplifies that story.
Very true. Plus, the schools usually own the research or project, etc.
Most of the colour change mechanisms for indication have prior art ( I run a company making colour changing inks), finding something truly innovative is rare (but not impossible).
It may be possible to patent as an entire solution rather than simply the colour changing part, but it depends very much on the application.
The other thing, and we have to be honest here, is that in many cases patients are really just a waste of money. They make lawyers rich, are virtually impossible to defend (especially against companies that have enormous legal budgets or manufacturers in countries that just don't care).
I work in patent law (but not a lawyer, this isn't legal advice, etc etc). Most of our work is for massive companies who have infinite money. As a solo inventor, getting a patent would be very expensive (like 5 figures) and probably wouldn't really benefit you in the long run.
Seconded. This is part of why I have a job, because a lawyer will just tell you to put all your trade secrets out there as patents when sometimes it's best to stfu
Yep. We often obfuscate the chemistry as well.
The whole NCIS "run it through the GCMS and we will see what it is" is only partially true. Adding different chemical reactions that have an effect on, say viscosity, or preservation, can really obscure the mechanism of colour change.
Fundamentally though, if anyone big or determined enough wanted to they could bankrupt us in lawyers fees fighting a patent. The main reason they don't is that the ink part is really low value and not worth the effort. Easier to get the IP via acquisition
How far away are we on thermochromatic roof paint that turns white in summer and black in winter?
Yes. At least in the US you have to have a patent application submitted before showing the world what you have. Otherwise it's public information and won't be granted a patent.
Not exactly. You have up to 1 year after public disclosure.
In the US. Other places aren't so generous.
She cant now since there is prior art.
This was years ago, what’s the most recent update?
If it were real, yes. People need to stop believing everything they read in a meme.
She became CEO for VariegateHealth. But she is the only employee and company website is no more active. She seems still in U Iowa and has other inventions. I don't think that suture has much value although it's a good idea. But good thing is that she's still active in her endeavor. Hopefully she'll be successful in the future.
Not throwing shade on her accomplishments but not hard to be ceo if it's your own company
This is a lazy redditor wasting everybody’s time.
Edit: I checked OP profile. Three years and 11k contributions? JFC get off the computer.
It's a bot. They're all fucking bots.
All of reddit is being ran by bots.
You'll notice their name goes 'word-word-number', almost like it was automatically generated. Don't trust any accounts like that.
It's how Reddit autogenerates usernames. It's not unique to bots.
Shut up, bot.
Reddit accounts made in the last few years follow that format. It's just how reddit does it, not bot accounts. I mean, bot accounts likely just use the default name most of the time but so do normal peopple.
thats just using the default reddit username they generate when you create an account if you're too lazy to pick a name for yourself
Beep boop, hey fuck you, beep boop
I try my best not to upvote posts like because of this — like all the people posting pictures of the guy who intervened with the shooting in Australia. They’re almost always karma farmers, I go and upvote comments though lol.
I’m starting to think I can just post a random image of someone with a caption claiming some bullshit, and I’ll get 50k upvotes.
Saw this post like twelve years ago.
it finally detected an infection
This is great, although a suture is not a bandage
Damn straight.
I designed a T-shirt that turns red if you get shot
I'll take one! Sounds super useful
Can you not tell a wound is infected by looking at the wound?
Precisely. This is dumb.
Tough to look at a wound if it's under a bandage.
And most people aren't doctors and aren't trained to spot the signs of infection. Even if they are common.
Wouldn’t a bandage cover the sutures?? And aren’t bandages supposed to be regularly changed? And also people who get wounds ARE trained on what to look for: heat, pain, swelling, and discharge
People who get wounds are trained?
Uh, want to try that again?
You're ignoring that many people don't go to the hospital. Many people self-treat. Many people don't follow medical advice, don't take their medicine, etc.
If you had a bandage that could show you a color that says "infection" it could then help people seek medical attention when it's needed. People who might otherwise ignore it until it got much worse.
This isn’t a bandage, it’s sutures which people who ARE trained have to put in. This is not relevant to people who don’t seek medical help.
Who the fuck is out there putting their own sutures in?
At first, I read the last part as "now has her sights set on a patient".
That's what I get for reading with my glasses off 😅
But in all seriousness, this is amazing!
I have thoughts about this.
I remember seeing an article about this. I just hope she is able to get it to market without relinquishing too much to big Pharma.
I heard this kind of invention a few times. Nothing real came out of them.
I wonder why...
Not much clinical value. Like light surface infection is mostly harmless. Most people can beat it with your own immune system. Even a bit deep tissue infection, your body may still be able to deal with it.
The answer here is really simple, just like it usually is for posts like this. It's a great idea and execution for a high school student, it's a great stepping stone towards being more scientifically minded, but its not actually useful in the real world. It's a suture soaked in beet juice, she is not the first person to have thought of this. It can only detect surface level infections that touch it, which are already incredibly easy to detect with your eyes.
Because it's already been done before and isn't practical or useful.
I don't think big pharma is going to be making beet juice bandaids anytime soon
It’s an interesting science fair experiment but nowhere close to a viable product. These are just sutures soaked in beet juice which change color due to a rise in the pH. But it’s not super accurate, not all infections cause a pH change, and there are other ways to detect similar infections.
Exactly, like pain, redness, inflammation… if a wounds infected you’ll know
Yeah, big pharma isn't worried.
It's useless, so she's very very safe.
Awesome, this can save a lot of grief as an early warning system when monitoring wounds.
Is it a warning sign though? Like when does the color change as opposed to other signs and symptoms. If it’s the same time then it’s basically useless.
Like “mm yes the infected wound is infected” helps no one but the person making more money off of the more expensive suture.
Medically it is pretty useless. Most infections are missed because nobody is checking not that it is hard to tell. If someone is checking to see the suture color who is educated enough to make a medical decision on it… they also can make that decision without it. By the time the suture color change was obvious so should the other signs of infection and deep infections wouldn’t be able to be seen at all. Also this adds in a false positive rate where non infected wounds may be errantly reopened if the suture ended up triggering or having the color adulterated and sutures can also crust over easily to where they aren’t easy to see in the first place.
I could see this being useful in home settings though. If someone goes home after surgery and uses these sutures, they would be able to tell if the wound is hurting from infection or just because it hurts. I actually thought I had an infection after a skin graft, but when I went to the doctor immediately (I worked at the hospital so I just took a 30 minute break and walked down), they said it was fine. It was just swollen because it was healing.
If I had a suture that changed color like that, I wouldn't have felt the need to go get it checked and I wouldn't have wasted my time.
That said, it probably would take too long to change anyway. But still, I don't think it's completely useless.
If there is any doubt they should come in. You don't realize this increases the risk of both people coming in because they think it is infected when it isn't, but also people staying at home because they think it isn't infected, when it is. It could end up killing more people due to deep seated infections or failure to notice a change, but since they were told that there would be no infection if the color didn't change, then they will just stay home until they are septic. This is likely more dangerous than it is worth and it is something that could have been easily implemented in bandages fifty years ago with older technology as all it is is a Ph test, which also is not a standard way of determining infection or not and I doubt it would be useful for all infections.
Also the part of the suture you can see is NOT the part touching the area that is most likely to be infected also making this useless....
If you look into her you'll quickly find out why this got pushed as far as it did. She was competing at the height of the BLM movement, she's a black woman, and part of her pitch as to why this "invention" is useful was a spin on black power.
The short of it is that she's a racist and happened to be trying to win a science fair when anyone of her race and gender, and espousing her brand of racism, was instantly catapulted to the front. Fortunately she didn't end up even placing at the national fair, though they elected her a a "spokeswoman" for the winners.
Absolutely shameful.
No, this invention is useless. You know what else changes colour in infected wounds? The skin around the wound. The human body already invented this
Well I expect it to be earlier than other signs, otherwise it would be useless
Am doctor. It's still useless, because if someone walks into my office just because their suture changed color I'm still going to have to check the wound for signs of infection. If there are no signs of infection, then no change in management.
So why not just educate the person who is somehow already checking their wound (supposedly thoroughly enough to note color change in these theoretical sutures) the normal signs of infection.
These color changing sutures would have to have extensive research done to prove that the color change alone is an accurate predictor of infection. The evidence would have to be ridiculously strong and consistent to warrant a change in treatment in the absence of any clinical signs of active infection.
Which is not the case.
Couldn’t the material react to an elevated white blood cell count? I’ve been put on antibiotics based on a high white blood cell count even when the other rapid tests showed negative.
No. Even if this was in some way technically feasible, white blood cell counts rise in the early postoperative period. So it would always be positive
That is a bad assumption in the world where click bait exists.
So, lots of wrong going on here
1) Reddit sub Headline says 'bandage can detect infection'
2) Picture headline says ' it's a new type of Suture'
3) Says ** "she invented a thread that changes colour if a wound is infected **
The hyperbole on this is ridiculous. Dressings and wound treatments that can not only alert to an unseen infection but can also have say antibiotics/painkillers etc embedded into them have been around for decades, the same goes for the thread used for the 'Suture' Which in English means stitch. Edit S/
And insurance probably won’t cover it anyways.
Well that’s pretty freakin awesome.
Just a fyi. This is great... for bad doctors... a good doctor knows by looking if a wound is infected or not...
Get it Dasia!
HERO
Not to be confused with Daisy Taylor
Would love to see this adapted for use on pets in the future!
I've been seeing this post for years now .
Lol Reddit bot slop
A part of getting a patent is NOT disclosing any details before its filed and accepted by the Patent Office.
I read “now has her sights on a patient.” Like, someone to test it out on.
Getting a patent doesn't come with the protection people think it does. You need to be able to defend your patent when someone tries to market a close copy. That's why so many patents are sold to big companies that can afford to defend them, unlike the individual inventor.
At first, I read "now has her sights set on a patient" which frightened and confused me. 😅
Congratulations!
lol
I can do that. It normally gets painful, pussy, and generally look and feel like an infected wound as opposed to a normal, healthy part of my body.
This would be a huge game changer for hospitals. MRSA is one hell of a bastard.
It's probably least useful in hospitals, where there are eyes on things. Probably very useful for patients at home in areas with poor medical literacy. Instead of describing an infected wound, you can simplify with "call if the sutures change color".
I have a few questions about this as someone who works in a clinical laboratory. First of all I just wanted to point out that sutures and bandages are separate things. Second of all, how? Is it detecting immune response/inflammation? Is it detecting toxins produced by pathogenic bacteria? Metabolic products? Antigens? There is no way this could be a one-size-fits-all type of product.
Beet juice detecting pH change. Not at all useful.
I thought this happened years ago?
Wow I remember how this girl magic was going to change the world the last time it was posted
Incredible
Brilliance!!!
Can't wait to never hear about this again.
EDIT: Apparently this is over a decade old, figures.
She’s from Iowa!!!
Here's to genius people inventing ingenious things to make our lives better. <O
EDIT: Whoever downvoted me can either explain it or go live in a hole.
That's fucking awesome.
[deleted]
Don't worry it's useless so it won't make her or anyone else any money.
Patent should have been the first step
That's brilliant 👏👏👏
If she didn't get a patent before she ever let the public know about it a pharmaceutical company has already stolen it from her
Ya gotta slap a patent on your "life saving invention", for the greater good. I hope she is doing well.
I remember reading about this years ago. In the original article and photo, she’s was still a kid. It was admirable. I can see a lot of challenges with it. Usually the superficial sutures don’t stay in for long. I feel like it’d be difficult to maintain accuracy. Also? usually by the time the infection starts to develop all of the tell-tale signs are obvious. But it’s still super cool that she’s on to something, and was at such a young age. I think with her interests and drive she’ll do big things.
This would have helped my family members this year. Go Dasia!
To my knowledge it cannot be patented once shared with the public. sadly should have patented ahead of time. I am not a lawyer though I am a career entrepreneur
Edit: I was wrong
USPTO has a 1 year grace period for public disclosure. Conceivably she's already filed ahead as well.
Oh good to know!
ITT: A bunch of Redditors doing their best to explain why this lady’s achievement is actually useless.
Most of them have no experience/background in medicine, but that won’t stop them from belittling others with baseless speculation.
hey there, I'm a clinical scientist/researcher with 20+ yeas of experience.
there's nothing new here, beet juice and (and many other plant pigments) change color with differing pH level. i can think of so, so many things that would immediately kill this idea.
pH is a horrendous way to determine infection. wound pH being high is not always an indication of infection, and having false negatives at a high rate immediately kill any effectiveness here.
why sutures? these are tiny, sometimes under the skin, sometimes removed early, covered in blood... and then, a change in color, with color being a very subjective thing... absolutely horrible idea.
When you hear students win science fairs, do you go around saying, “This isn’t anything new. There’s nothing to celebrate here.”?
She literally got published on the Smithsonian Magazine due to her research. There’s a lot more to it than what you’re making it out to be. She’s at a starting point, of course there are some further areas of study. It’s not perfect, but it’s a cool find. That’s the point of these types of science competitions/exhibitions.
Here is the full read.
You said you’re a clinical scientist/researcher with 20+ years of experience. Will you share some of your accolades with us? Surely, you must have some similar achievement, if you’re diminishing this one?
Because this girl made it into the Smithsonian, based on research she started at 17. If you’re even smarter than her, I can’t imagine what you did by that age.
Drop some links for us, show us what a REAL scientist is capable of.
EDIT: If you want to respond to this comment, I welcome it. But please don’t immediately block me after. If you are so sure of your argument, give me the opportunity to respond. Thank you 😄
Come on bro this is participation trophy stuff. This student might go on to do great things and she should be encouraged to do so but this product has very little practical use.
It should be celebrated because for a child, it's an incredible achievement and she did a great job following the scientific method, identifying a problem, and devising a solution.
Most people are not trying to diminish her achievement in the context of her age and education, they are trying to inform others that this is not a new discovery, nor is it useful to actual doctors. Because not all infections cause pH changes, this could end up causing more harm than good if patients rely on it too much. Even if these were used, wounds would still need to be closely monitored, which would also catch any infection this is capable of detecting, which defeats the entire purpose of using them.
Yes, we should absolutely support students in STEM, but we also shouldn't be lying to them and telling them that sutures soaked in beet juice are going to change the world.
This is the most patronizing comment lmao.
As I asked everyone else, if you think her accomplishment is so easy, what have you done that’s similar?
Please provide your feat with a verifiable source.
She landed in the Smithsonian magazine for her research, so a source of similar standing should suffice.
If you’re going to respond with some high minded rhetoric that tries to deflect from the fact that you have nothing to show for yourself, don’t bother, I’m going to redirect back to this point.
Everyone agrees she did fantastic, everyone agrees it was a good idea, nobody is saying her accomplishment is easy, whatever problem you see is entirely in your head. Unfortunately, not every good idea ends in a useful product.
You sound like someone who peaked in high school and can't accept the fact that education sometimes involves discovering things that have already been discovered. I'm sorry for whatever happened that gave you such a strong "little man" complex. I wish you luck in life.
Not sure if you’re the one downvoting everyone, but I was excited enough for this girl when this surfaced years ago. Enough so that I saved the article. It was a brilliant idea for her age and I’m sure she will thrive. That said, I do work in medicine - for the past 12 years. And with two of those more recent years working in general surgery and trauma. So I’ve seen the open abdomens, the internal sutures, the closures, and the superficial sutures. As well as both the intra-abdominal infections and abscesses, and the superficial ones. I’m reasonably qualified to point out what would or wouldn’t work. Ideas like this are never perfect from the get go. And the only way to get there is to understand the flaws. People are allowed to give an honest critique, while still appreciating what she thought of. No need to get so bent about it.
Please link your credentials and notable research, so we can ensure you’re not full of BS.
Any attempt to deflect from your lack of similar achievements will be redirected back to this point.
Until I see some actual sources, it’s in one ear and out the other. You’re just crying from the sidelines as someone outshines you in your field 🥱
FFS. How old are you?
We’ll all wait for yours, “talk o boy”.
Lol you’re crashing out over this. You’re full on stalking me in this thread.
Why would I need to provide my accomplishments, when I’m not the ones trying to tear her down? I’m celebrating her.
You lost the plot, Rivers. Calm down, stop being emotional, and actually think about what you’re saying. I can tell you’re seething, and it shows.
Hi, I'm a doctor.
I can't see this being a useful indicator versus just having the wound monitored by someone with even the most basic instructions.
That being said, innovation is cool and props for trying, but there's very little real-world utility here.
That’s already been discussed.
Here is the article that covers the specifics.
If you are a doctor, then you know that medicine evolves over time. You should also be aware of the potential this holds for black patients, if the kinks are ironed out.
The article does not add any meaningful specifics that would make this any more useful. If anything, looking at the side by side comparisons makes me incredibly doubtful that most people could discern enough color change to be a useful flag for infection.
Please feel free to explain why you think this has a specific potential for black patients, because I don't see anything that would make it somehow useful in darker skin tones when it is already not useful in lighter skin tones.
You think people can’t discern color changes? Really?
You can’t see how this is a big achievement for someone who started at 17 year old?
… you’re going to be one of THOSE doctors. Thank God they stuck you in a rural hospital. Way less patient outreach in those locations.
There are two types of doctors. The arrogant ones. The empathetic ones. You hate to see it.
You're trying to put words in my mouth to try and paint me as some awful prick, to what end I really don't know.
No idea why you seem to want to lash out at people over the internet because they have a different perspective on a neat (but not very useful) science fair project, but I hope you find some introspection at some point.
You’re a doctor, yet you have never conducted any research of note.
Yet you feel the authority to call this research inconsequential. It feels like:
1) You’re punching down because someone in your field outperformed you in something.
2) You don’t really have any room to talk, because you haven’t accomplished anything as recognizable yet.
You suggest introspection, I would ask why someone like you goes out of their way to belittle someone online?
Most doctors that end up in rural areas, end up there because they didn’t have the scores/personal skills to make it to a city hospital.
I feel the two points are connected. If you see the connection, it will help you.
You can make assumptions about my supposed lack of research history to try and discredit me but that is not the basis of my argument. I am not trying to discredit the invention because I don't like it but because the real world application of it does not exist at present, and it is fundamentally misleading to represent them as something that does already have clinical applications. And that is something I am (unfortunately) qualified to comment on. While articles from science fairs like this are often nice feel-good stories, they usually fall flat pretty quickly in the transition to applied science.
It falls into the same realm as an article touting "Teenage Scientist finds that Household bleach kills XYZ Cancer cells." ...by dumping some bleach on some cancer cells in a dish in a lab.
While that may sound cool at first, the whole thing falls completely on its face when you consider that there is no bridge to application. There is no utility in the finding because there is no way to inject bleach into cancer without also killing people.
This story is much of the same, unfortunately. The idea of pH-reactive suture material potentially indicating an infection does not address any of the following:
1) Impregnation of pH indicators into Standard-of-Care suture materials. The materials she used would not be appropriate for suture material, which the article acknowledges.
2) Live Tissue reactions. She did not test the reliability of the pH indicator in real cases of infection, so who knows if it even reliably works in live specimens. What about false positive rates?
3) Timeline of Indication. If the color change only triggers after infections are significant enough to show obvious signs of infection, then the color change is a useless finding.
4) Risk vs Benefit. The whole idea of new medical interventions is based on the concept of "Better than standard of Care" so if using these sutures does not lead to a net benefit over standard techniques, then there's no point in using them.
5) Practice Changing Effect. Does the implementation of these sutures actually change how infection is approached and managed? If I still plan on having patients come in to have the wound assessed, does the color change really affect standard of care in a meaningful way?
There's a lot going into it. There's more to think about when discussing changes in medical management than just "that sounds neat lets do it."
And it's usually the implementation of things that eats 90% of the effort, and really sets apart a "good idea" from a "good innovation."
I could spin you a great idea about solar powered cars, with proposals on how to design and make them, but I hope you'd agree that the real magic and impressive work would come from making a solar powered car effective rather than possible.
And to your edit: At no point did I attempt to belittle someone online. I did not call anyone stupid or insult their intelligence. I did not insinuate that they would not have a great future and do great things. I directly and specifically pointed out that the suggested benefits of a proposed idea do not line up with the real world, from a perspective given to me by real world experience and education.
To your insinuation that rural doctors only practice in rural areas because they "couldn't hack it," I would say you don't really seem to understand how getting a job in medicine actually works and probably would do best not speaking authoritatively on something you don't have much knowledge about. Most docs I've met chose rural areas because they prefer the setting to live in for various reasons like any other job, as well as a generally increased level of autonomy. For me, I was tired of living in the city, and for generalists like myself most find it much more rewarding and challenging to manage more complex cases with closer personal relationships to my patients, which is something that you often miss out on in urban settings saturated with specialists.
👍
So much douchebagery in the comments. Like lets first minimize her contribution, and then imply that only ignorant or stupid people would find it useful, as if the article doesn't say that it already exists and it is cost prohibitive though. I read her wiki, not the best source of info, but a product that would be especially useful to people of color whose skin tones might not show redness as easily as fair skinned people. Hugely beneficial and that is without discussing disparities in healthcare. Of course the assholes are out in force on this one.
Hell yeah 👍
FUCK YES
That is rather clever.
It's actually rather stupid. There's a very good reason this has not already been implemented. I'm happy for someone with proper medical background to correct me but I'm pretty sure what I'm about to say is accurate.
This is essentially just sewing thread (string) dipped in a reagent. That reagent changes colour when chemicals produced by certain bacteria come into contact with it. The problem is this - we don't use thread for sutures any more, specifically because they absorb moisture and become a breeding ground for bacteria. We use a kind of single filament plastic suture now, which is sterile and cannot absorb anything, either bacteria or reagent.
Basically, this would not prevent infections. It would more likely cause infections. This is just a nonsense feel-good story with no practical benefit.
I make colour changing inks for a living, primarily for packaging and medical sterilisation. This application hadn't occurred to me, however there is generally an offgassing of volatile organic compounds that should be detectable and not require a colour changing suture (possibly also a change in pH because of bacterial infection). Both of those are easy chemical indicators to detect.
I agree application is important, and I haven't studied her solution, but it is of academic interest in my brain
Another post here says she used beet juice as the reagent, which means it's the pH change that's being monitored.
The easiest way, as you say would be to monitor the pH along a capillary strip (thread or suture), but provided the dressing was kept in an inert environment prior to application (not difficult) a simple gas based test would work, especially with dressings that were going to be applied for a couple of days.
Difficulty is detecting that change as a part of infection as opposed to other environmental factors, but even then I would argue it is an indicator (not a dosimeter) and that a false positive result is preferable to a false negative
Damn. And here I am wrapping a cut in toilet paper.