Not enough power for that. The banner is a huge amount of drag. Once they pitch up you hear them go full power. That's the only way to gain altitude once it's connected. Start gaining speed and the banner will lift off.
Homie they are at full power after the sign because they are taking off again (just a little higher off the ground than the first time) lol the ground isnât something a pilot wants to fly next to just for funsies
Whew, no lie. That pilot knows exactly where the stall is, and stays just on top of it. That moment made my entire gut contract into something the size of a walnut.
When these planes have the banner attached they are basically permanently at stall speed or right above stall speed and at max power. The banner is just so much drag it wouldnât be possible to take off with it attached so they do this instead.
Fun plane fact, as little as 1/8 of an inch of ice or snow on the wings can affect the lift and drag during takeoff enough to crash planes larger than commercial jets. I could see a banner taking a little propeller plane out.
Theyâre constantly on the road though. At HWD theyâll come in for a couple weeks at a time (especially around Fleet Week), then move on.
This might even be one of the ones that comes here. Same model, paint, and configuration. They have open cockpits (dress for wind chill), no built in electronics. Not even radios and starters: they use modified handhelds, portable ADSB, and the engines are started from outside plane (watch your fingers).
Excellent time-building job, though, for low-time commercial pilots.
Mainly weight. Your average Cessnas are mainly aluminum and means for 3 passengers+ pilot. There are some Cessnas used for smaller banners, but these Super Cubs are used because the skin is made of cloth, no extra seats or extra drag/weight from a cabin intended for 4 people, etc.
Totally, had made the assumption that it was already connected and then somebody just kicked it out the door or something even if they didn't have some kind of fancy latch. Now I'm wondering how they land. I had assumptions there too.
The entire banner plus cable (including the grappeling hook) can be released from the tail of the plane. They fly low and slow over a smooth taxiway / field and drop the whole assembly.
The hook / attachment on the planes used for this were originally designed for towing gliders, where for safety reasons it is sometimes necessary to release the entire tow cable
Most definitely not. The guy I did set up for bought the air center he got his pilots license from because he was a spoiled rich kid who thought he was too good to put in time flying Delta puddle jumpers and didnât want to put in the time to get to the big boys. So he decided he wanted to own a flight school.
He got certified for banner towing and wouldnât let anyone else, because that was his âthingâ. Total idiot because when he got into a car accident and couldnât fly for a year he lost all that business. None of the other instructors could do it so by the time he got back on his feet all the banner business got eaten by a flight center a few miles north.
Navy planes need cables to stop on the deck. These banner towers have such a high lift-to-weight ratio at low speeds that, I shit you not, they could land, stop, and take off again with room to spare.
Man, I absolutely hated doing banner set ups. You had to set it up one way or the other depending on which way the wind was blowing that particular minute, where I was. If the wind was blowing from the south you had to set it for pick up from the north. But if the wind changed mid pick up, the banner could get twisted. The pilot would throw the hook out, could tell by the aerial that the wind had changed and try to pull up, but would end up dragging the banner twisted into the air and have to drop it. That meant landing and resetting the hook and cable. And the banner.
That sounds like a nightmare you can't do anything about bit accept you need to redo it. Can I ask, why aren't the banners attached to the plane when they take off?
Dragging the banner across the runway could destroy it and also create a lot of drag for the plane, making it more difficult to lift off. And having some sort of system to store and deploying banners while in the sky would be costly, and probably heavy, too.
Technically you could drag it. The Cessna 172 has enough power to pull it, but the letters themselves are made of nylon(?). And there was a limit to the number characters you could string together. I canât remember what that limit was, I think 20 or 24, but it wasnât a weight thing it was a length thing. Theyâre made of whatever commercially available (cheap) tents are made of and the attachments to the fiberglass rods are made of cloth so itâd get destroyed after a few times.
The lead pole has a weight built on to it and the drag pole does too, just not as large.
Depending on way the wind of blowing would help you figure out which way to lay it out. At my airport, north or south pick ups were determined by the wind. But if that wind was blowing east or west (like southwest, or north east) you position the banner accordingly on the ground so the wind helps you pick it up.
Well the guy didnât crash the plane so thereâs something to cheer about. This is actually a very dangerous job and the plane can stall and fall to the ground
They used this method to evacuated intel and even people before helicopters were commonplace. If you don't have a runway you just string a rope between two poles and fly a plane with a hook
Sorry to be that guy, but the link you've provided is about the Fulton system, which is actually more advanced than what's shown in the video, as it features a helium balloon tied to what you're trying to pick up, and two guiding metal rods on each part of the plane's nose to catch the rope, holding on to the bottom part while cutting the upper part to free the balloon.
The system shown in the video is even more primitive, and was indeed much more unreliable and dangerous when dealing with picking up humans.
The Fulton device showcased in Batman is a real thing used to evacuate key assets/personnel from places planes can't land
While using it out of the side of a building would be an awful idea it's been used with reasonable success in mountainous and jungle terrain (Vietnam and Afghanistan) by several different groups
These airplanes are usually flying at pretty high power settings in cruise just to stay airborne, the banners carry a lot of drag with them. Taking off with the banner attached would degrade takeoff performance very dramatically.
These banners are about 40-80 feet long and arenât exactly small and compact. Just tossing it out of the airplane would result in it hitting your empennage and washing out airflow over your rudder and elevator until you inevitably crashed.
My late uncle towed banners for a while. You need a certification (waiver) from the FAA to be able to do so.
The FAA rep who showed up to certify my uncle had never actually seen the process done before and when my uncle did this maneuver, he misjudged something and missed the line with the tail hook. Instead the line snagged on the tail of the plane and my uncle had to do a super sketchy loop to get the plane back on the ground safely.
FAA inspector thought he had executed perfectly and certified him.
Yup it can be sketch as fuck especially when the guy who rigged the quick release on your Pawnee got fired for doing meth and getting the fuel truck stuck in sand a week earlier.
I always assumed the banner was on board during takeoff and was deployed in flight using a winch or something. Then theyâd wind it back in for landingÂ
When I see a video like this my first thought is wow I never thought about that, my immediate second thought is who in the hell thought that up and dared to try it for the very first time??
What the (literally) flying fuck do you mean that they catch these banners WHILE FLYING? Why don't they just strap these rolled up into the fuselage or inside some compartment or something and just unroll them while flying low?
Knowing a commercial airline pilot, they have described to me that being a banner tow plane pilot is one of the sketchiest and dangerous piloting jobs you can do apparently. iirc, they told me that the small aircraft can struggle and feel like stalling at any moment, and the picking up of the banner (as shown in the video) is a pretty scary thing to learn to do properly lmao.
no, the line & hook which catches the banner is attached to a latch that the pilot can open from inside the plane. he drops it & the banner in basically the same area that he caught it & then lands so the line & hook can be reattached. the hook is handed to the pilot and once airborne again he throws the hook out & come around the catch the next banner (if there is one).
I knew i always wanted to know, but I cant help that my reaction was just a "huh shrug" and the thought "the more you know". Much more respect to those pilots
If you ever want to see how hard that is for yourself play Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 and do a banner mission. Itâs SO hard and thereâs no actual potential for death involved like in real life.
Theoretically could you have one of these fly over the jack links factory and theoretically have the banner say âbeef jerky costs too much moneyâ, how much you think that would run someone? Asking for a friend.
Why am I only today year old when I've learned this. I feel like school should be taking greater advantage of combining lessons like physics with teaching about real life stuff like this.
The banner unhooks (which you would also do in the event of an emergency). They drop the banner back in the same place where they picked it up, and then circle back to land like any other banner-less plane.
Seen this at the airport by my house and thought the plane was going to crash was insane, I never knew that is how they did that shit lol freaking amazing pilots or crazy one of the two
Oh i thought they just deploy when they are up there ,
đ youâre smarter than me . I just assumed it was coiled up behind them on the runway.
Yeah I thought they took off with it attached already
I thought that too lol
In hindsight that might cause too much wind resistance for takeoff.
Just give it a bit more gas
"Mmm-hmmm."
I have gas.
I ain't got gas, I ain't got gas, I got IBD...
Baby, I don't need dinner meals to have flatulence...
Probably destroy the banner first from the friction.
Idk why im so hard rn
That is not how that works
Ok. How does it work?
Same
I'm not sure why they couldn't, other than tearing the banner on the ground maybe.
Not enough power for that. The banner is a huge amount of drag. Once they pitch up you hear them go full power. That's the only way to gain altitude once it's connected. Start gaining speed and the banner will lift off.
I hadn't considered that. Makes sense, and username checks out.
I bet OP works at the DMV.
Slow and steady!
Homie they are at full power after the sign because they are taking off again (just a little higher off the ground than the first time) lol the ground isnât something a pilot wants to fly next to just for funsies
Whew, no lie. That pilot knows exactly where the stall is, and stays just on top of it. That moment made my entire gut contract into something the size of a walnut.
Yeah that appears to be a great pilot there. I wonder how long it takes to get that just right on the first try.
When these planes have the banner attached they are basically permanently at stall speed or right above stall speed and at max power. The banner is just so much drag it wouldnât be possible to take off with it attached so they do this instead.
Fun plane fact, as little as 1/8 of an inch of ice or snow on the wings can affect the lift and drag during takeoff enough to crash planes larger than commercial jets. I could see a banner taking a little propeller plane out.
Now imagine having to run ads just to be able to pay for the plane lol
Eh I can think of worse jobs, if it's profitable thats basically being paid to do your awesome hobby
Theyâre constantly on the road though. At HWD theyâll come in for a couple weeks at a time (especially around Fleet Week), then move on.
This might even be one of the ones that comes here. Same model, paint, and configuration. They have open cockpits (dress for wind chill), no built in electronics. Not even radios and starters: they use modified handhelds, portable ADSB, and the engines are started from outside plane (watch your fingers).
Excellent time-building job, though, for low-time commercial pilots.
Why do they use such weird planes instead of just a normal cessna
Mainly weight. Your average Cessnas are mainly aluminum and means for 3 passengers+ pilot. There are some Cessnas used for smaller banners, but these Super Cubs are used because the skin is made of cloth, no extra seats or extra drag/weight from a cabin intended for 4 people, etc.
I wanna work flying the Goodyear blimp. Dream job right there.
I always assumed it was just that when two planes love each otherâŚ
Me too!
Totally, had made the assumption that it was already connected and then somebody just kicked it out the door or something even if they didn't have some kind of fancy latch. Now I'm wondering how they land. I had assumptions there too.
The entire banner plus cable (including the grappeling hook) can be released from the tail of the plane. They fly low and slow over a smooth taxiway / field and drop the whole assembly.
The hook / attachment on the planes used for this were originally designed for towing gliders, where for safety reasons it is sometimes necessary to release the entire tow cable
Such as, hypothetically, the entire
boatplane crew being eaten by dinosaurs perhaps?Well thatâs exactly what 420 crickets in a trench coat WOULD say.
You would think they go the easy route
Me too. Just thought they chucked it out of the back.
TIL
TIL they're navy pilots lmao
Most definitely not. The guy I did set up for bought the air center he got his pilots license from because he was a spoiled rich kid who thought he was too good to put in time flying Delta puddle jumpers and didnât want to put in the time to get to the big boys. So he decided he wanted to own a flight school.
He got certified for banner towing and wouldnât let anyone else, because that was his âthingâ. Total idiot because when he got into a car accident and couldnât fly for a year he lost all that business. None of the other instructors could do it so by the time he got back on his feet all the banner business got eaten by a flight center a few miles north.
Navy planes need cables to stop on the deck. These banner towers have such a high lift-to-weight ratio at low speeds that, I shit you not, they could land, stop, and take off again with room to spare.
For some reason I just assumed they dragged that shit behind them on take off, or launched it out the door when high
They probably shouldn't be getting high while doing that job.
It's the only way to fly.
Bullshit. Everyone knows Red Bull gives you wings.
I'm high right now
Monica
I think some do, because ive seen them do that before at a small airport near me.
[deleted]
Good ole monkey in a zoo technique
You probably should fly planes while under the influence
Iâm now seeing someone beat me to this line of comedy
Man, I absolutely hated doing banner set ups. You had to set it up one way or the other depending on which way the wind was blowing that particular minute, where I was. If the wind was blowing from the south you had to set it for pick up from the north. But if the wind changed mid pick up, the banner could get twisted. The pilot would throw the hook out, could tell by the aerial that the wind had changed and try to pull up, but would end up dragging the banner twisted into the air and have to drop it. That meant landing and resetting the hook and cable. And the banner.
That sounds like a nightmare you can't do anything about bit accept you need to redo it. Can I ask, why aren't the banners attached to the plane when they take off?
Dragging the banner across the runway could destroy it and also create a lot of drag for the plane, making it more difficult to lift off. And having some sort of system to store and deploying banners while in the sky would be costly, and probably heavy, too.
And tossing it out mid-flight, there is an increased risk of the empennage getting entangled.
And I learned a new word today
Oh wicked, thank you for your reply đ
Technically you could drag it. The Cessna 172 has enough power to pull it, but the letters themselves are made of nylon(?). And there was a limit to the number characters you could string together. I canât remember what that limit was, I think 20 or 24, but it wasnât a weight thing it was a length thing. Theyâre made of whatever commercially available (cheap) tents are made of and the attachments to the fiberglass rods are made of cloth so itâd get destroyed after a few times.
How do you ensure the banner is the right way up, after itâs caught?
The lead pole has a weight built on to it and the drag pole does too, just not as large.
Depending on way the wind of blowing would help you figure out which way to lay it out. At my airport, north or south pick ups were determined by the wind. But if that wind was blowing east or west (like southwest, or north east) you position the banner accordingly on the ground so the wind helps you pick it up.
This is the question Iâm here forâŚ
Scrolled down further, they use weights, duh
Makes sense. Thanks for replying!
That little cheer is hilarious
Yeh
Celebratory yeh is required
đ Thank you for this comment, I missed it the first time and would never have watched that far in the video. Yehhh
Well the guy didnât crash the plane so thereâs something to cheer about. This is actually a very dangerous job and the plane can stall and fall to the ground
I had no idea that's how they hooked on.
They used this method to evacuated intel and even people before helicopters were commonplace. If you don't have a runway you just string a rope between two poles and fly a plane with a hook
The people thing was more a proof of concept, not widely used afaik.
It was developed by the CIA and has been used, because of that, there's a pretty limited "history" of how and where it's been used. But there are a few publicized instances of it being put into use.
Batman used this very technique to escape a skyscraper in Hong Kong
Sorry to be that guy, but the link you've provided is about the Fulton system, which is actually more advanced than what's shown in the video, as it features a helium balloon tied to what you're trying to pick up, and two guiding metal rods on each part of the plane's nose to catch the rope, holding on to the bottom part while cutting the upper part to free the balloon.
The system shown in the video is even more primitive, and was indeed much more unreliable and dangerous when dealing with picking up humans.
Here's a good video showing the difference between the two
Was always fun to do in Metal Gear 5!
They used it at least once in the "Green Berets" movie with John Wayne...
Nuhuh, I played this documentary called metal gear solid 5 and very real person venom snake did it all the time
This isn't Batman
The Fulton device showcased in Batman is a real thing used to evacuate key assets/personnel from places planes can't land
While using it out of the side of a building would be an awful idea it's been used with reasonable success in mountainous and jungle terrain (Vietnam and Afghanistan) by several different groups
Fulton device?
https://i.redd.it/gsoru8i32l6g1.gif
New respect for the sign flyers. That looks dodgy as hell.
https://preview.redd.it/2c0ryvw4bl6g1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6194d386b4567008832efdf23d6b35ad57b53b21
He almost granted that yeah
Is doing this Safer than taking off with the Banner Already Attached?
These airplanes are usually flying at pretty high power settings in cruise just to stay airborne, the banners carry a lot of drag with them. Taking off with the banner attached would degrade takeoff performance very dramatically.
But why not have them attached and folded, or even ininside the plane and deploy it after take off?
These banners are about 40-80 feet long and arenât exactly small and compact. Just tossing it out of the airplane would result in it hitting your empennage and washing out airflow over your rudder and elevator until you inevitably crashed.
Probably so the flag or cable doesnt have a chance to get wrapped around any parts of the plane.
There would be less wear on the banner.
Dragging it would be less wear than lifting it?
Those banners are HEAVY. They have weights in them to help them orient.
Dragging them across the strip would tear them up.
Look at banner Michael
Family love Michael?
But banner Michael
And now he's off to ruin somebody's beach day!
That guy playing shitty edm on his $10 bluetooth speaker wont know what hit him
Upvoted for the little "yea" at the end
So was it successful?
As in, did someone finally tell Robert Woods âsafe nurse staffing saves lives!â
I wonder how often the sign is upside down
That is easily fixed with a quick aileron roll to inverted.
Oh cool
đ¤Łđ¤Łđ¤Ł
They have ballasts and weights to orient them.
That would definitely suck, especially when you are just starting out doing the job.
My late uncle towed banners for a while. You need a certification (waiver) from the FAA to be able to do so.
The FAA rep who showed up to certify my uncle had never actually seen the process done before and when my uncle did this maneuver, he misjudged something and missed the line with the tail hook. Instead the line snagged on the tail of the plane and my uncle had to do a super sketchy loop to get the plane back on the ground safely.
FAA inspector thought he had executed perfectly and certified him.
Yup it can be sketch as fuck especially when the guy who rigged the quick release on your Pawnee got fired for doing meth and getting the fuel truck stuck in sand a week earlier.
I always assumed the banner was on board during takeoff and was deployed in flight using a winch or something. Then theyâd wind it back in for landingÂ
assembling and laying the banner out on the ground is the hard part... all the pilot has to do is not hit the ground when catching the cable.
at the end the whole thing is dropped in pretty much the same spot and it all needs to be gathered up and disassembled.
that's why those big printed sheet banners are more popular because they are less work, but more drag.
So that is what all the Navy pilots do after they retire.
I never once in my life considered this problem.
Now I'm wondering why I never asked myself the question how they do this....
I don't know why but I love the engine sound of these planes
Is it just me or did it look like the plane almost stalled out right after hooking up the banner?
I had never even thought about it. Thanks for posting.
When I see a video like this my first thought is wow I never thought about that, my immediate second thought is who in the hell thought that up and dared to try it for the very first time??
Huh. I dunno what I expected, but it wasn't this. Thats cool as fuck
Does the banner say âcrazy eddies prices are insane!â? IYKYK
I really thought it was rolled up and unrolled while flying.... this seems more complicated.
What the (literally) flying fuck do you mean that they catch these banners WHILE FLYING? Why don't they just strap these rolled up into the fuselage or inside some compartment or something and just unroll them while flying low?
I didn't know I needed to know this... but I do now, thanks OP
Hell yeah I used to set these up in lakewood NJ
Norman, OK for me.
Knowing a commercial airline pilot, they have described to me that being a banner tow plane pilot is one of the sketchiest and dangerous piloting jobs you can do apparently. iirc, they told me that the small aircraft can struggle and feel like stalling at any moment, and the picking up of the banner (as shown in the video) is a pretty scary thing to learn to do properly lmao.
Iâd like to get back in the planeâŚwithout it landing
Do they land with the banner attached?
no, the line & hook which catches the banner is attached to a latch that the pilot can open from inside the plane. he drops it & the banner in basically the same area that he caught it & then lands so the line & hook can be reattached. the hook is handed to the pilot and once airborne again he throws the hook out & come around the catch the next banner (if there is one).
First funeral I ever went to when I was a kid was from my dads friend doing this
It was in a hanger at the airport.
I saw this first on Bobâs Burgers.Â
You know, I never thought about thisâŚ
Why not just attach it before take off? Too much drag?
And maybe too much destroying the banner dragging it on the runway hoping it doesn't get hung up.
This is indeed interesting as fuck! I always thought it was rolled up inside the plane and then deployed once it got in the air.
My life is complete. Iâm in my forties and have seen these things from the beach my entire life.
Is this in RI per chance?
So do they just land after or do they detach it before they land?
They do a low pass and release the banner first then come around and land normally.
Be. Sure. To. Drink. Your. Ovaltine.
SONOFABITCH!
Learned this from playing MSFS24 and it's a lot harder than it looks.
Apart from OP, everyone here did not know that was how it is done, including me!
They have to catch it??
Last part of banner reads âSafe Nurse Staffing Saves Livesâ
Can Anyone make out the first part?
I leaned this from Bobâs Burgers.
wtf does the banner say
"I'm Sal. I'm lonely. Call me 646-6-__"
My brother does this for a living.
Thanks to Bob's Burgers, I knew this already! Nice to see it in real life đ
Couldn't you just have it anchored at the rear of the plane folded up like a parachute, and use some simple mechanism to deploy it?
If they don't take off with it, do they land with it? Or is it released near the runway for safety?
The drag the banner adds which makes takeoff harder would likely help with slowing down for a landing.
Has there ever been an incident where the hook gets caught on the ground?
I knew i always wanted to know, but I cant help that my reaction was just a "huh shrug" and the thought "the more you know". Much more respect to those pilots
Zoink!
So this is how Batman escaped Hong Kong in The Dark Knight
Is this how they got the idea for Skyhook?
Would have been great if the banner was OPâs subject line instead of Time for a New Mattress? or whatever.
OP please correct this when convenient.
So, tail hook, so, f-18 towing a banner?
Lights afterburners.
âOops.â
This is basically how The Batman got out of a pretty sticky situation in China.
Wow - I did not know it was so involved -
The âyaayâ at the end had me rolling
Maverick, call the ball
How do they ensure the sign stays right side up?
So if they want to detach it, do they have to do this in reverse?
Kinda disappointed it wasnât a geico banner
My husband and I went to an airport that banner planes worked out of and watched the pilots pick up the banners that grace the Jersey shore line.
If you ever want to see how hard that is for yourself play Microsoft Flight Simulator 2024 and do a banner mission. Itâs SO hard and thereâs no actual potential for death involved like in real life.
Theoretically could you have one of these fly over the jack links factory and theoretically have the banner say âbeef jerky costs too much moneyâ, how much you think that would run someone? Asking for a friend.
Can a commercial aircraft do this to help off set the cost of seat for the public?đ
Why am I only today year old when I've learned this. I feel like school should be taking greater advantage of combining lessons like physics with teaching about real life stuff like this.
What about landing?
I gotta love/hate relationship with these missions on Microsoft flight sim. Itâs kinda hard to do
yayy
How does the landing part work?
The banner unhooks (which you would also do in the event of an emergency). They drop the banner back in the same place where they picked it up, and then circle back to land like any other banner-less plane.
Kurt's flying with his penis again....
Oh god. This lonely, half enthusiastic yeeeeh is just... a meme in itself.
All that work and he snagged it upside down đ
Is this OC?
What's the story behind this bad boy? Looks like an O-1 Bird Dog?
https://preview.redd.it/9rrp3lrknm6g1.png?width=191&format=png&auto=webp&s=f608fab12d57ff5636651c062f6b55830470aee2
Seen this at the airport by my house and thought the plane was going to crash was insane, I never knew that is how they did that shit lol freaking amazing pilots or crazy one of the two
Now if only they could make them readable while in the air
I actually wondered about this the other day looking at one in the sky.
imagine hooking it up upside down
How much do these guys get paid?
Not much, it's an entry level low time pilot job. You have to Uber on the side for food.
Can they catch it wrong and turn the sign upside down?
"Fuck it's upside down, let's try again lads"
Thats cool no doubt
Imagine you set it up, and you notice the sign is upside down
The way this is done makes so much more sense than how I thought it was. I feel so dumb. I'm gonna go sleep
Why did they pitch so far up and then level out? To slow down to not hurt the banner? To minimize the time spent close to the ground for safety?
How do they disconnect?
I thought that they got attached to the plane while on the ground and just dragged along before it takes off.
Someone has played a little GTA.
I learned so much from this video. Now, I can answer my kid's questions when they ask about this.