My ex dragged me there a couple times but that was over 15 years ago. I don’t remember a VIP section, but then again I spent the time there mentally checked out until we could leave.
Fucking crazy that it was noticed years ago that his church's 9nline store doesnt even carry a Bible, its just only things him, his family and inlaws have written/done and they still havent put a Bible on it.
Yeah I pass it on the highway all the time it looks like a Greek temple. I’ve heard there are people that work in there that are not allowed to leave. I think they were investigated but not sure what came of it.
I included Grace Woodlands. They're the same group. I was dragged to the one on Gulf Freeway as a kid, when Steve couldn't help but make the Columbia disaster all about himself. It used to be that Steve was the senior pastor and Garrett was the associate pastor at the same location. Then Steve moved to The Woodlands.
Well some churches ask for your check stub right off the bat to set you up on auto 10% donation. I will have to ask my parents which are the ones who experienced this in Houston, good thing they just turned around and left. Could not believe it.
Sonrise Ministries. Run a fraudulent scammy homeless shelter. I have had a number of issues whenever mr.buford came in to my store to buy lights and speakers.
One time he came in with a bunch of people, didnt listen to any advice on appropriate speakers for his space, and instead told me to "charge him up with the most expensive stuff" so I did. They couldn't figure it out on their own so he cornered me in the dark room where we showed the lights and threatened me to come set it up for him or hed get me fired. I had to shove him away and get Ernest to kick him out.
Another time he came in with his wife, but wouldnt get off the phone while asking questions. Annoyed but it happens. He then started yelling about how if his 16 year old son wants to leave the house and be an adult, that he has a Smith and Wesson he should just kill himself with.
Any church where the minister/priest/etc. drives a brand new Benz, Range Rover, Rolls, Etc. Also, any church that is in The Summit. Or any church that feels the need to have their own version of Chuck E Cheese inside with bowling and a kids play place.
You mean after Lakewood? Probably second Baptist. They are scammy to some extent. It’s a business with a scammy business model. You give them money and they give you nothing. Then they ask for more and you give them more money in the hope that you eventually get something. But the never have to give you anything for your money.
Exactly. I don't think most churches promise the congregation their lives will be improved but only if they give money to the church.
My summary is that churches put on a good show and pass around a tip jar (basket) and people who have enjoyed the show will pitch in some cash.
Churches can't keep the lights on and pay the administration without some income. Sure, they don't pay taxes, but that isn't enough to keep the operation running.
I think most church goers understand that faith alone won't keep a church running, it takes some money.
Now, if your minister and his wife drive late-model Mercedes Benz SUVs, and they don't sell a bunch of books, I think there's something wrong with the picture.
I mean have you ever guys been to a religious house of worship? Every single organized religion operates under the same principal. You give them money. They give you a promise of heaven or whatever reward you are seeing. But they do t actually give you anything. No other business in the world gets away with taking your money and giving you nothing in return other than organized religion.
Do you think people who donate to the Red Cross are getting anything out of it?
I’m an atheist, but I am also a non-profit worker. You’re just dead wrong on the model and also on the claim that that the practice of giving money to a group is, in itself, is a scam. There are certainly disingenuous tactics that non-profits and churches alike can take to get money from their audience, but most small organizations are pretty transparent about how money raised will be used.
The Red Cross and other. On profits are regulated and their donations and expenses accounted for. There are retaliatory agencies that review their activity and plenty of independent rating agencies that review them. Religions are not subject to these rules. I get what you’re saying but it’s an awful false equivalency to equate charities and non profits with religions and religious charities. Placing them on the same level just allows them to drift off the hard work of others.
Red cross is a total scam. You give money for a natural disaster, that money is hoarded to go to the next one. Family who lost everything in Harvey were given water bottles and blankets. How is that going to help me rebuild? Meanwhile the ceo of the red cross made 1.3 million in 2024. They pray on victims taking money by showing their dire situation, but those people barely get anything in return.
They don’t give you anything tangible, but they do provide a house of worship, a community, and everything that comes with that. For believers, they also get a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.
I get what you’re saying, but you have to look through the eyes of one of their members. From the outside is intentionally obtuse, whether you believe with them or not.
Very few religious leaders will advocate against modern medicine. They’ll suggest supplementing with faith, but only Steve Jobs was dumb enough to suggest meditation in lieu of chemo… and that wasn’t even organized religion.
Look, I’m not a religious guy, but it’s pretty clear that most in this thread have never stepped foot in a church, let alone spoken to church leaders or elders. Religious institutions can absolutely be a net positive for a community.
Who do you think takes care of most of the homeless or otherwise needy? Hint: it ain’t the folks in this thread.
Osteen tells paritioners not to take their psychiatric meds. He has done this with schizophrenics and psychotics. Meds aren't perfect, but people with serious psychiatric issues need to stay on their meds.
They're also a huge reason why charity is necessary to begin with. But that's a much more nuanced topic completely unrelated to the comment you responded to. Your comment is also completely irrelevant to the comment you responded to.
Did anyone say their leader directly advocated against modern medicine? No? then please just shut the fuck up! thanks.
Well, yeah, you did. You said “they” told your friend to reject medicine. If it wasn’t the church (the leadership), then it’d be no different than bad advice on Reddit.
ah but it was literally "the leadership" that cornered her in a bathroom and tried to convince her she just needed god while throwing holy water on her. Not "the leader" or "church leader", but the female leadership of the church.
You have my sympathy, but your generalization is misguided. The individuals who convinced your mother are just that - individuals. And I hate to be this direct, but your mother had a hand to play there as well.
Do you marginalize other groups for the actions of a few?
I’d be upset too, I reckon, but it’s more effective to be upset at the right folks.
Out of curiosity what are the people expecting to get?
In addition to the typical 'dog & pony show' on Sundays, some may have folks to help with counseling. Attendees would be able to approach someone and ask for help.
Hopefully not getting laughed off like Ned Flanders. 'Reverend Lovejoy, you've got to help me! I think be coveting my own wife!'
There was some random “prophetess” running out of a tent up around 1960/spring area several years ago, but that tents packed up. Not sure if scammy but felt too scammy to enter
There's the Big 3 ; Lakewood, Second Baptist and Grace. A while back I was visiting random churches for research. There was this modest one off Champion Forest Dr. The Pastor was a psycho! I remember him doing hand gestures and using a word for people to speak in tongues on command. He spoke openly about people in the congregation that left. Called a woman flaky, not reliable and obviously "was not ready to be near God" He also talked about doing background checks on any new members AND advocated "punishment by any means, and even killing homosexuals".
I might still have my notes from that day, I just remember feeling utterly disgusted. When the donation basket came around, I left a hand written note instead.
I also have a personal story regarding Lakewood.
Champion Forest Baptist Church in Spring has a habit of hiring youth pastors that touch children and a Klein ISD school board member that participated in the cover up
I'll urge you to be VERY cautious with the documentary you're considering.
Every big church has attorney firms working for them, and if your video has ANY content that could be considered defamatory or libelous, they'll be on you like the devil.
Why not do a documentary on the churches that actually do good in the community and help draw attention to those? I would be much more interested in hearing positive things, than just more of the trash that Lakewood is putting out.
Because negative sells and positive doesn’t. They aren’t looking for anything to help drive positivity or community even though we as a nation desperately need it.
Community of faith. The pastor used to be pretty good years ago…I left for a long time and came back, they were doing even better and got bigger but the sermons changed. He talks about being driven and wealth driven. Kinda Olsony if you ask me. Gave me major icky feelings and couldn’t go back.
Well not in Houston but if you want Mega scammy then look no farther than Elevate Life Church in Frisco, TX — just north of Dallas.
Lead pastor Keith Craft teaches a “prosperity gospel”. He pitches his paid entrepreneurial group classes during church services that cost around $6,000 per year. Of course has different tiers you can join with the highest tier costing around 80k a year. On top of this he pushes tithes pretty hard. You can check out his sermons on YT, if you can stomach it.
I have a friend that is wrapped up in all this bullshit and I can’t seem to convince him he is being scammed.
I'm not religious, but someone I know went to a church in Pasadena off Fairmont parkway that required a direct auto draft from your bank account. That kind of blew my mind
I know someone who was allegedly financially cleaned out by the Berachah Church at Sage and W Alabama. I don’t know much about it, but it sounds rather cult like.
There are a lot of scammers who grab member's names from church directories and then pretend to be associated with the church in order to scam. Are you sure this was a case of the official church doing it?
Unfortunately the person I’m talking about has since passed. I’ll try to get more info from his family. I know they were dealing with it for several years.
I know several people who are or were members there and my S/O listens to recorded sermons from there all the time. At least in the past the church was filled with wealthy professional class people and pretty much no accusations. I googled and found a ponzi scheme that had used the church in their scheme. The church apparently was unaware and returned the money when they were informed so I'd presume it can't be associated with the person you know.
JMMI on 45 just north of beltway 8. Their website is a wild read, and I'm pretty sure the Houston location got busted by the FBI for human trafficking not too long ago.
I’ve been softly looking into this with some ideas. I’ve been tracing it historically too. Goes beyond scamming people for offerings. If you know what I mean.
the congregation is mostly made up of a hit parade of precinct four deputies and klien isd administration.
evangelical fundamentalist, and yt kkkhristian nationalist through and through. people get hurt over there, and I'll leave it at that.
Well, the definition of "scam" is to gain money fraudulently, so a lot depends on what one considers to be fraud.
If a minister or other church leader promises the congregation that their lives will be enriched by tithing, that seems pretty scammy.
If a church puts on a good show and then passes around baskets, is that a scam?
People who have faith and go to church are not forced to do so. If they opt to give money to their church, and are not coerced into doing so with some kind of offer or promise, I don't see the scam.
Osteen claims his wealth did not come from the church, it came from the sale of the 60+ books he's published. If people are being forced to buy these books, we need to see how & why.
If I write a book about how to live a happier life, and people buy that book, and then they read the book and don't agree that my ideas will help, they should be able to return the book for a refund.
I just checked and verified that Osteen's books can be returned for a full refund.
I'm an agnostic and don't attend church, and I believe churches should pay taxes like the rest of us, just FYI.
I expect my comment here to reap a ton of negative karma, and that's fine, but I'll ask you to please make a comment about why you disagree and maybe specifically say what parts of my comment resulted in your decision to vote against it.
It's a fallacy to view Osteen's book profits as independent to the global institution of Lakewood Church. Through Lakewood, Osteen has some of the greatest exposure and promotional reach on the planet. His services are syndicated to every corner of the globe, translated into every language you've ever heard of, and serviced by a marketing machine that politicians and corporations could only dream of having. He's not selling all those books through word of mouth or by favorable reviews from independent book critics. He's selling them because they're being advertised to a network of over a billion consumers.
I was at the Rolling Stones concert there in February of '98. My wife & I sat next to Ken Caminiti, 6 rows from the stage. Excellent show.
Curious why you say Osteen is an evil cult leader.
I don't think he's a true holy man, and doesn't deserve "reverend" status, but he isn't conning anyone into giving money to his church under false pretenses.
They come for a good show and to feel better about themselves and he does that for him. If they have money and feel like donating, that makes them feel good and makes Lakewood even richer.
It's not something I'd be proud of if I were him, but it's not inherently evil by any means. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and making them give Lakewood money.
You need to check out bride ministries in Katy. I was looking into them a few years back, it’s a highly political “Christian”cult that targets the mentally ill (specifically DID/people going through psychosis). Back in like 2020/2021 they were recruiting/being recommended on Qanon boards because most of their preaching is antivaxx and conspiracy theory based.
In a nutshell they tell vulnerable people that yes, gangstalking is real and it’s worse than you think- you can actually be gangstalked by living people as well as ghosts, aliens, and algorithms. It seems like whatever delusion you have they will affirm it, which I think is unbelievably dangerous
They have these awesome prayers on their website that read like TOS conditions, and they also have a YouTube channel where you can hear about stuff like how mermaids are actually real from a lady who believes that she is mengeles biological daughter. Just scroll through the titles of the prayers for a sense of what they’re telling these ppl
There’s also an MLM component to it- you sign up for these courses and then you move up to the next tier. IIRC there was something weird with their tax registration too, like they changed it from being a normal 501c3 to a church at some point. Definitely worth looking into if you’re into that kind of thing
I wonder about churches that take patrons money then send members to foreign countries to teach in places like Peru. Surely they have enough churches down there already and money would be better spent helping locals.
I’m not anti religion, and I think places of worship - doesn’t matter if it’s monotheistic, polytheistic, more philosophical, focuses on ancestor worship, whatever - can give people the community and connection we as humans need, and also can assist with helping the less fortunate in society. But, yes, the majority of congregations are scams, plain and simple. A couple things to look out for:
1) Exclusivity - If the attitude of the congregation is we are better because of x (beliefs, morals, labels, interpretations, our “prophet” etc) - run. This is really just buttering you up to take the majority of your time and money to maintain this “exclusivity.”
2) Inerrancy - if a church believes the Bible or whatever holy book is truthful in all respects and is not full of contradictions is a scam artist. They will use this book to control you, and will find a verse for whatever situation to ensure that control (even if 5 others contradict it).
Also most “non denominational” or “community churches” do, in fact, belong to a denomination. Read the fine print.
I think it'll be interesting to see the YouTube channel when you launch it.
If really want it to be a "professional" channel, you should consider hiring a proofreader. "If you know someone who wanna share their story I would like to connect with them " doesn't have that ring of a professional journalist.
Having another language as your primary language doesn't excuse poor grammar. If you write something you want a lot of people to see, then you should go to the effort of checking it.
chatgpt.com does a great job of reviewing text and suggesting a revision. MS Word will also point out issues with spelling and grammar.
Of course, the extra steps are only necessary if you actually want to appear professional and have people believe you're not just an amateur.
After you do that, why don't you follow it up with a piece on the coolest religious or spiritual places in the Houston area? I mean, sure, pointing out the scams is helpful and gets lots of views, but I imagine pointing out some of Houston's jewels might be just as attractive.
And, there are some amazing places too. We have a number of stunning Buddhist and Taoist temples.The Hindu Temple in Stafford is stunning. The Quaker Church has custom work done by an artist most Houstonian's know well. And don't forget about the Rothco Chapel and so much more.
Frack. I am not religious, but unlike some of my atheist friends, I cut them slack. Do your thing but don't harm others. There are many who don't harm others, who simply try to make it through the day without completely freaking out.
Get some buds together, and see the jewels around the city. Stunning. Sure, a lot of the other things aren't right, but some of these things are just people trying. And they aren't frackin' with me.
I’m surrounded by small churches in strip centers that have just popped up and are advertising on billboards. It’s everywhere. People need to stop giving these charlatans money so they stop popping up.
Just go to the African American churches where the preachers are selling tapes and merch 🤣 and constantly bringing up love offerings and when they constantly talking about tithing
Religion was a scam from the beginning. It's a psychological grift. One human preying on others. It's really quite sad how much of a mental virus it is.
You have to remember that our understanding of the world was a little lacking when religions started. It was how they coped with not understanding the world around them, where they came from, and why they were here.
The rise of monotheism and the transition from religion as an educational framework to an ideological state apparatus was really when it went off the rails.
I don't have to remember shit because that's actually the root of the problem. People need to forget religion and leave it in the dust. Stop teaching it. Fill the gap with science, I do.
Forgetting it is the worst possible next-step. History is important to remember, else you fail to consider lessons learned later.
That said - The establishment and development of organized religion isn’t something going away, so you’d be better suited to not pretend it’s not here.
Religion is financial fraud and mental abuse. Its absence wouldn't be missed at all. It's like locking up criminals in prisons for doing unspeakable things. The world is instantly better off without them.
My uber driver was some religious Mexican guy who recommended I go to Lakewood church and couldn’t bring myself to tell him how scammy and unchristian like a mega church seemed to me.
Out of curiosity why do ppl say Lakewood? I don’t go there and I don’t think I would ever tbh. I don’t believe Joel Osteen preaches the bible. It’s more so of motivational speaking more than preaching. Only thing I can think of that’s definitely strange is the money in the walls. As far as his money, he makes it from book sales and stuff like that. Not directly from Lakewood itself. I just like to judge based on facts and hearsay is exactly that. If anyone has watched his service, at the end he ends it with “find a good Bible based church, keep God in your heart…”
It's very popular here to hate Joel Osteen and Lakewood. Kind of like hating Dallas.
I'm with you - I see no scam. A scam is where someone is promised something and spends money to get it, and then does not get what was promised.
I don't think Lakewood says, "If you give us money, we'll make sure you get happiness." They just put on a good show and pass around baskets. People enjoy the show so they put money in the baskets.
I think the bible says when we pray, we're not supposed to make a show of it, but the bible also says a lot of stuff that doesn't apply anymore. (Eat nothing with fins & scales, don't cut your hair, etc.)
All churches are likely a scam for you because you don’t believe in what their teaching or selling or whatever. However, do you think the majority of people that attend these churches think it’s a scam or expecting some financial return on their time and money?
I didn't get the impression that OP thinks every church is culty or a scam. And no one who gets involved in a scam, a cult, or an organization that's cult-adjacent is saying, "Hey yeah, I see what you're doing but please take my money and mentally abuse me!" They all start out thinking they've found something good. They often stay longer than they should've, and the reasons for that vary widely.
New Light Church, Bishop I.V. Hilliard, was recently selling his Spring tax exempt mansion/compound for $15 million
Anything with the name like New Light must be examined lol
Any church tbh
Spring Cypress at Steubner?
Went to high school with his kids. Used to drive by the compound all the time going to my girlfriend’s house back then.
If Joel Osteen isn't top of the list, you might need to leave town.
There should not be a VIP section @Lakewood.
There’s a VIP section? Have they always had one?
My ex dragged me there a couple times but that was over 15 years ago. I don’t remember a VIP section, but then again I spent the time there mentally checked out until we could leave.
Cash in the bathroom walls!
That's based on a true story. When I saw that on The Righteous Gemstones, I thought it was too bizarre not to be true.
Lakewood Church Cash in Bathroom Wall
It was only one Sunday’s take. Why didn’t they report it missing?
It’s pretty known but I believe there are lots of small scale scammers in town and I want to investigate it
So you want to push the smaller scale scammers out? Are you Jesse Gemstone?
High-five for the reference.
What can I say, Je$us loves me.
username checks out
Teenjus, get it right!
Fucking crazy that it was noticed years ago that his church's 9nline store doesnt even carry a Bible, its just only things him, his family and inlaws have written/done and they still havent put a Bible on it.
Second Baptist Corporate Overlord, I mean Church!
The Repentagon!
😂
That one is gonna be harder than taking down joel osteen lmao
La luz del mundo is really bad. But not on a small scale as you asked. I think there’s a documentary on their leader. Convicted pedophile
Yeah I pass it on the highway all the time it looks like a Greek temple. I’ve heard there are people that work in there that are not allowed to leave. I think they were investigated but not sure what came of it.
It used to be painted purple. The first time I saw it I thought it was a nightclub. Was gobsmacked to learn it’s a church.
Yeah it’s definitely a cult.
What’s the name of the documentary?
The darkness within or something. It’s on Netflix
One on HBO too, “Unveiled” I think
Grace and Grace Woodlands with Garrett Booth and Steve Riggle.
What about Grace woodlands ?
I will say dude has a lot of cars lol
I included Grace Woodlands. They're the same group. I was dragged to the one on Gulf Freeway as a kid, when Steve couldn't help but make the Columbia disaster all about himself. It used to be that Steve was the senior pastor and Garrett was the associate pastor at the same location. Then Steve moved to The Woodlands.
Well some churches ask for your check stub right off the bat to set you up on auto 10% donation. I will have to ask my parents which are the ones who experienced this in Houston, good thing they just turned around and left. Could not believe it.
omg
Sonrise Ministries. Run a fraudulent scammy homeless shelter. I have had a number of issues whenever mr.buford came in to my store to buy lights and speakers.
One time he came in with a bunch of people, didnt listen to any advice on appropriate speakers for his space, and instead told me to "charge him up with the most expensive stuff" so I did. They couldn't figure it out on their own so he cornered me in the dark room where we showed the lights and threatened me to come set it up for him or hed get me fired. I had to shove him away and get Ernest to kick him out.
Another time he came in with his wife, but wouldnt get off the phone while asking questions. Annoyed but it happens. He then started yelling about how if his 16 year old son wants to leave the house and be an adult, that he has a Smith and Wesson he should just kill himself with.
Holy fuck what a terrible dude.
Any church where the minister/priest/etc. drives a brand new Benz, Range Rover, Rolls, Etc. Also, any church that is in The Summit. Or any church that feels the need to have their own version of Chuck E Cheese inside with bowling and a kids play place.
The Ark up in Conroe is this. Never been to it but have heard since I was kid how extravagant it is with the "entertainment" it provides.
Damn! I wonder if the WoodsEdge pastor does too??? I know he takes yearly trips to Israel
Haha so true
Woodlands Church is a close second to Lakewood.
Lakewood?
It’s pretty known but I believe there are lots of small scale scammers in town and I want to investigate it
You mean after Lakewood? Probably second Baptist. They are scammy to some extent. It’s a business with a scammy business model. You give them money and they give you nothing. Then they ask for more and you give them more money in the hope that you eventually get something. But the never have to give you anything for your money.
“in the hope that you eventually get something”
Out of curiosity what are the people expecting to get? And how much $$ is the church asking for? Seems interesting 😳
Exactly. I don't think most churches promise the congregation their lives will be improved but only if they give money to the church.
My summary is that churches put on a good show and pass around a tip jar (basket) and people who have enjoyed the show will pitch in some cash.
Churches can't keep the lights on and pay the administration without some income. Sure, they don't pay taxes, but that isn't enough to keep the operation running.
I think most church goers understand that faith alone won't keep a church running, it takes some money.
Now, if your minister and his wife drive late-model Mercedes Benz SUVs, and they don't sell a bunch of books, I think there's something wrong with the picture.
I mean have you ever guys been to a religious house of worship? Every single organized religion operates under the same principal. You give them money. They give you a promise of heaven or whatever reward you are seeing. But they do t actually give you anything. No other business in the world gets away with taking your money and giving you nothing in return other than organized religion.
And not paying taxes on said “income”
Do you think people who donate to the Red Cross are getting anything out of it?
I’m an atheist, but I am also a non-profit worker. You’re just dead wrong on the model and also on the claim that that the practice of giving money to a group is, in itself, is a scam. There are certainly disingenuous tactics that non-profits and churches alike can take to get money from their audience, but most small organizations are pretty transparent about how money raised will be used.
The Red Cross and other. On profits are regulated and their donations and expenses accounted for. There are retaliatory agencies that review their activity and plenty of independent rating agencies that review them. Religions are not subject to these rules. I get what you’re saying but it’s an awful false equivalency to equate charities and non profits with religions and religious charities. Placing them on the same level just allows them to drift off the hard work of others.
Red cross is a total scam. You give money for a natural disaster, that money is hoarded to go to the next one. Family who lost everything in Harvey were given water bottles and blankets. How is that going to help me rebuild? Meanwhile the ceo of the red cross made 1.3 million in 2024. They pray on victims taking money by showing their dire situation, but those people barely get anything in return.
They don’t give you anything tangible, but they do provide a house of worship, a community, and everything that comes with that. For believers, they also get a sense of fulfillment and satisfaction.
I get what you’re saying, but you have to look through the eyes of one of their members. From the outside is intentionally obtuse, whether you believe with them or not.
Almost like a social club for people with shared interests.
they tried to convince someone I know to reject medical treatment in favor of being sprinkled with holy water
Very few religious leaders will advocate against modern medicine. They’ll suggest supplementing with faith, but only Steve Jobs was dumb enough to suggest meditation in lieu of chemo… and that wasn’t even organized religion.
Look, I’m not a religious guy, but it’s pretty clear that most in this thread have never stepped foot in a church, let alone spoken to church leaders or elders. Religious institutions can absolutely be a net positive for a community.
Who do you think takes care of most of the homeless or otherwise needy? Hint: it ain’t the folks in this thread.
Osteen tells paritioners not to take their psychiatric meds. He has done this with schizophrenics and psychotics. Meds aren't perfect, but people with serious psychiatric issues need to stay on their meds.
They're also a huge reason why charity is necessary to begin with. But that's a much more nuanced topic completely unrelated to the comment you responded to. Your comment is also completely irrelevant to the comment you responded to.
Did anyone say their leader directly advocated against modern medicine? No? then please just shut the fuck up! thanks.
Well, yeah, you did. You said “they” told your friend to reject medicine. If it wasn’t the church (the leadership), then it’d be no different than bad advice on Reddit.
ah but it was literally "the leadership" that cornered her in a bathroom and tried to convince her she just needed god while throwing holy water on her. Not "the leader" or "church leader", but the female leadership of the church.
that person was my mom.
you fucking idiot
You have my sympathy, but your generalization is misguided. The individuals who convinced your mother are just that - individuals. And I hate to be this direct, but your mother had a hand to play there as well.
Do you marginalize other groups for the actions of a few?
I’d be upset too, I reckon, but it’s more effective to be upset at the right folks.
Unfortunately yes I have been to a Baptist church 😂
They sell hope
You’ve clearly never been in therapy then.
Supposedly 10% of your annual income😂
In addition to the typical 'dog & pony show' on Sundays, some may have folks to help with counseling. Attendees would be able to approach someone and ask for help.
Hopefully not getting laughed off like Ned Flanders. 'Reverend Lovejoy, you've got to help me! I think be coveting my own wife!'
This is pretty sick. I believe more places are doing similar things on a small scale
https://www.chron.com/culture/religion/article/ed-young-anti-immigration-sermon-18692233.php
I think they also give money to anti-LGPT groups. They seem like such a hateful organization, it’s sick they call themselves Christian.
Someone dragged me there in the 1990’s. I walked out when he said AIDS was punishment for sin. F that guy.
Lesbian, Gay, Pie-sexual, and Trans? Is Jason Biggs in that category, as a Pie-sexual? 😏
Typo! I don’t get the reference but I’m sure someone will
I'm guessing you never saw AMERICAN PIE (1999).
What do you expect to get from a church?
Church of Scientology
There was some random “prophetess” running out of a tent up around 1960/spring area several years ago, but that tents packed up. Not sure if scammy but felt too scammy to enter
Sounds like Seventh Day Adventists
Lakewood and 2nd Baptist.
Jia Tolentino’s book “Trick Mirror” has an essay in it about growing up in Second Baptist and how it’s very culty
Grace Church Houston. Probably a bigger fish than you are looking to research, though.
There's the Big 3 ; Lakewood, Second Baptist and Grace. A while back I was visiting random churches for research. There was this modest one off Champion Forest Dr. The Pastor was a psycho! I remember him doing hand gestures and using a word for people to speak in tongues on command. He spoke openly about people in the congregation that left. Called a woman flaky, not reliable and obviously "was not ready to be near God" He also talked about doing background checks on any new members AND advocated "punishment by any means, and even killing homosexuals". I might still have my notes from that day, I just remember feeling utterly disgusted. When the donation basket came around, I left a hand written note instead. I also have a personal story regarding Lakewood.
Was this the same church that had a camel kick a lady in the head during their nativity pageant ?
Champion Forest Baptist Church in Spring has a habit of hiring youth pastors that touch children and a Klein ISD school board member that participated in the cover up
Joel Olsteen. By far.
Second Baptist.
O S T E E N ANYTHING
Joel olsteens “church”
Any church that talks politics.
Obviously Osteen's scammy bullshit, also avoid Champions Forest Baptist church.
I'll urge you to be VERY cautious with the documentary you're considering.
Every big church has attorney firms working for them, and if your video has ANY content that could be considered defamatory or libelous, they'll be on you like the devil.
We drove to get tacos this morning and were marveling at how empty the parking lots were at the churches we passed
Well, they deserved it
Good. Another thing we millennials killed that deserved to die
Or congregations just relocated to tiktok.
Yeah sitting at home alone with a video in your face is the absolute opposite of congregation.
Everyone I know who was raised very religious like me is no longer religious.
Makes me kinda sad, but I don’t go to Houston churches anymore.
Why not do a documentary on the churches that actually do good in the community and help draw attention to those? I would be much more interested in hearing positive things, than just more of the trash that Lakewood is putting out.
Because negative sells and positive doesn’t. They aren’t looking for anything to help drive positivity or community even though we as a nation desperately need it.
Maybe they’re looking to help expose common tactics being used and maybe save a few people from cults along the way? Just a thought.
They want to drive people away from religion
Community of faith. The pastor used to be pretty good years ago…I left for a long time and came back, they were doing even better and got bigger but the sermons changed. He talks about being driven and wealth driven. Kinda Olsony if you ask me. Gave me major icky feelings and couldn’t go back.
Well not in Houston but if you want Mega scammy then look no farther than Elevate Life Church in Frisco, TX — just north of Dallas.
Lead pastor Keith Craft teaches a “prosperity gospel”. He pitches his paid entrepreneurial group classes during church services that cost around $6,000 per year. Of course has different tiers you can join with the highest tier costing around 80k a year. On top of this he pushes tithes pretty hard. You can check out his sermons on YT, if you can stomach it.
I have a friend that is wrapped up in all this bullshit and I can’t seem to convince him he is being scammed.
That is disgusting. Wow, amazing so many are being deceived. May be you could get friend to go with you somewhere else. That is creepy.
Church without walls in west Houston, the pastor comes in on a helicopter, I heard.
I'm not religious, but someone I know went to a church in Pasadena off Fairmont parkway that required a direct auto draft from your bank account. That kind of blew my mind
I know someone who was allegedly financially cleaned out by the Berachah Church at Sage and W Alabama. I don’t know much about it, but it sounds rather cult like.
This could be helpful, cults are doing the same thing. I’ll check out this church and idk if your friends wants to share his/her story
The body language of the guy who was head pastor for the majority of the church's existence does seem a bit off-putting: https://berachah.church/_next/static/media/RBT_Jr.aa435f1c.jpg
There are a lot of scammers who grab member's names from church directories and then pretend to be associated with the church in order to scam. Are you sure this was a case of the official church doing it?
Unfortunately the person I’m talking about has since passed. I’ll try to get more info from his family. I know they were dealing with it for several years.
I know several people who are or were members there and my S/O listens to recorded sermons from there all the time. At least in the past the church was filled with wealthy professional class people and pretty much no accusations. I googled and found a ponzi scheme that had used the church in their scheme. The church apparently was unaware and returned the money when they were informed so I'd presume it can't be associated with the person you know.
JMMI on 45 just north of beltway 8. Their website is a wild read, and I'm pretty sure the Houston location got busted by the FBI for human trafficking not too long ago.
I’ve been softly looking into this with some ideas. I’ve been tracing it historically too. Goes beyond scamming people for offerings. If you know what I mean.
Love this project you’re on to
kkklienwood church of christ
its close by to klien high school, in 77379.
the congregation is mostly made up of a hit parade of precinct four deputies and klien isd administration.
evangelical fundamentalist, and yt kkkhristian nationalist through and through. people get hurt over there, and I'll leave it at that.
Well, the definition of "scam" is to gain money fraudulently, so a lot depends on what one considers to be fraud.
If a minister or other church leader promises the congregation that their lives will be enriched by tithing, that seems pretty scammy.
If a church puts on a good show and then passes around baskets, is that a scam?
People who have faith and go to church are not forced to do so. If they opt to give money to their church, and are not coerced into doing so with some kind of offer or promise, I don't see the scam.
Osteen claims his wealth did not come from the church, it came from the sale of the 60+ books he's published. If people are being forced to buy these books, we need to see how & why.
If I write a book about how to live a happier life, and people buy that book, and then they read the book and don't agree that my ideas will help, they should be able to return the book for a refund.
I just checked and verified that Osteen's books can be returned for a full refund.
I'm an agnostic and don't attend church, and I believe churches should pay taxes like the rest of us, just FYI.
I expect my comment here to reap a ton of negative karma, and that's fine, but I'll ask you to please make a comment about why you disagree and maybe specifically say what parts of my comment resulted in your decision to vote against it.
It's a fallacy to view Osteen's book profits as independent to the global institution of Lakewood Church. Through Lakewood, Osteen has some of the greatest exposure and promotional reach on the planet. His services are syndicated to every corner of the globe, translated into every language you've ever heard of, and serviced by a marketing machine that politicians and corporations could only dream of having. He's not selling all those books through word of mouth or by favorable reviews from independent book critics. He's selling them because they're being advertised to a network of over a billion consumers.
Excellent comments, can't argue with you a bit.
But do you think Lakewood Church is running a scam?
By definition, prosperity gospel is a scam.
One I went to as a kid claimed it was required, when the tithe is fundamentally Jewish.
I have gotten this vibe from Sagemont Church seeing their big cross off the beltway/45.
I went as a kid; got baptized in the water surrounding said cross. There was a reason I stopped going. Felt cult-like.
A big cross gives you a scam vibe?
It does to me, they spent $1.6 million on that gigantic cross
I still don't see a scam.
But it seems pretty ridiculous that a church would spend that kind of money on a structure like that.
Houston has hungry people, including children. How many school lunches would 1.6 million dollars provide?
How would the fight to cure ALS or MS benefit from a contribution of 1.6 million dollars?
Just seems less-than-holy.
Maybe that wasn’t the right way to say it.
Lakewood by far. I take great joy in knowing what shenanigans I saw on the stage at the Summit before this evil cult leader took the stage ....
I was at the Rolling Stones concert there in February of '98. My wife & I sat next to Ken Caminiti, 6 rows from the stage. Excellent show.
Curious why you say Osteen is an evil cult leader.
I don't think he's a true holy man, and doesn't deserve "reverend" status, but he isn't conning anyone into giving money to his church under false pretenses.
They come for a good show and to feel better about themselves and he does that for him. If they have money and feel like donating, that makes them feel good and makes Lakewood even richer.
It's not something I'd be proud of if I were him, but it's not inherently evil by any means. No one is holding a gun to anyone's head and making them give Lakewood money.
You need to check out bride ministries in Katy. I was looking into them a few years back, it’s a highly political “Christian”cult that targets the mentally ill (specifically DID/people going through psychosis). Back in like 2020/2021 they were recruiting/being recommended on Qanon boards because most of their preaching is antivaxx and conspiracy theory based.
In a nutshell they tell vulnerable people that yes, gangstalking is real and it’s worse than you think- you can actually be gangstalked by living people as well as ghosts, aliens, and algorithms. It seems like whatever delusion you have they will affirm it, which I think is unbelievably dangerous
They have these awesome prayers on their website that read like TOS conditions, and they also have a YouTube channel where you can hear about stuff like how mermaids are actually real from a lady who believes that she is mengeles biological daughter. Just scroll through the titles of the prayers for a sense of what they’re telling these ppl
There’s also an MLM component to it- you sign up for these courses and then you move up to the next tier. IIRC there was something weird with their tax registration too, like they changed it from being a normal 501c3 to a church at some point. Definitely worth looking into if you’re into that kind of thing
wow, what a rabbit hole. thanks for this.
holy shit, I didn't even consider that I may have been taken to a breeding planet in the pre-adamic age
https://bridemovement.com/pre-adamic-victimization-prayer/
Haven’t heard of gangstalking guess I need to do some reading. How can you believe in god and not believe in ghosts or mermaids?
If yall want divine info hmu,no church needed just phone and books
I wonder about churches that take patrons money then send members to foreign countries to teach in places like Peru. Surely they have enough churches down there already and money would be better spent helping locals.
That big white church on 59N
Lakewood and La Luz del Mundo for sure
The Gemstones are my favorite!
I’m not anti religion, and I think places of worship - doesn’t matter if it’s monotheistic, polytheistic, more philosophical, focuses on ancestor worship, whatever - can give people the community and connection we as humans need, and also can assist with helping the less fortunate in society. But, yes, the majority of congregations are scams, plain and simple. A couple things to look out for:
1) Exclusivity - If the attitude of the congregation is we are better because of x (beliefs, morals, labels, interpretations, our “prophet” etc) - run. This is really just buttering you up to take the majority of your time and money to maintain this “exclusivity.”
2) Inerrancy - if a church believes the Bible or whatever holy book is truthful in all respects and is not full of contradictions is a scam artist. They will use this book to control you, and will find a verse for whatever situation to ensure that control (even if 5 others contradict it).
Also most “non denominational” or “community churches” do, in fact, belong to a denomination. Read the fine print.
I’ve heard the preacher at woodlands has a Ferrari. No idea if it’s true
All of them.
I didn't know there were any other kind
I think it'll be interesting to see the YouTube channel when you launch it.
If really want it to be a "professional" channel, you should consider hiring a proofreader. "If you know someone who wanna share their story I would like to connect with them " doesn't have that ring of a professional journalist.
I’m not a Youtuber like I said I work for a Youtuber and I’m not a native speaker but thanks for the suggestion anyway 😄
Where did you say you work for a YouTuber?
Having another language as your primary language doesn't excuse poor grammar. If you write something you want a lot of people to see, then you should go to the effort of checking it.
chatgpt.com does a great job of reviewing text and suggesting a revision. MS Word will also point out issues with spelling and grammar.
Of course, the extra steps are only necessary if you actually want to appear professional and have people believe you're not just an amateur.
After you do that, why don't you follow it up with a piece on the coolest religious or spiritual places in the Houston area? I mean, sure, pointing out the scams is helpful and gets lots of views, but I imagine pointing out some of Houston's jewels might be just as attractive. And, there are some amazing places too. We have a number of stunning Buddhist and Taoist temples.The Hindu Temple in Stafford is stunning. The Quaker Church has custom work done by an artist most Houstonian's know well. And don't forget about the Rothco Chapel and so much more.
Frack. I am not religious, but unlike some of my atheist friends, I cut them slack. Do your thing but don't harm others. There are many who don't harm others, who simply try to make it through the day without completely freaking out.
Get some buds together, and see the jewels around the city. Stunning. Sure, a lot of the other things aren't right, but some of these things are just people trying. And they aren't frackin' with me.
c
First and second babdist...
Does that include Mosques as well?
Sacred Heart Catholic Church in Rosenberg do daily prays for concervative politicians.
Last time i went, they did a thing for Brett Kava
I’m surrounded by small churches in strip centers that have just popped up and are advertising on billboards. It’s everywhere. People need to stop giving these charlatans money so they stop popping up.
The church that hands out money trays during service. Main focus of their discussion to make you feel guilty if not giving your tithe of 10%.
Pare de Sufrir
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r/pastorarrested hmmm,all of them
https://preview.redd.it/501366ukltcg1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=fa4c7d57c4461213d505e361e4b747d4bdbc6f8a
Any one that has this flying out front.
There’s a brand new mosque at Montrose and W Dallas. It’s beautiful looking.
Just go to the African American churches where the preachers are selling tapes and merch 🤣 and constantly bringing up love offerings and when they constantly talking about tithing
All of them
All of them
Every single one of them
Religion was a scam from the beginning. It's a psychological grift. One human preying on others. It's really quite sad how much of a mental virus it is.
You have to remember that our understanding of the world was a little lacking when religions started. It was how they coped with not understanding the world around them, where they came from, and why they were here.
The rise of monotheism and the transition from religion as an educational framework to an ideological state apparatus was really when it went off the rails.
I don't have to remember shit because that's actually the root of the problem. People need to forget religion and leave it in the dust. Stop teaching it. Fill the gap with science, I do.
Forgetting it is the worst possible next-step. History is important to remember, else you fail to consider lessons learned later.
That said - The establishment and development of organized religion isn’t something going away, so you’d be better suited to not pretend it’s not here.
Religion is financial fraud and mental abuse. Its absence wouldn't be missed at all. It's like locking up criminals in prisons for doing unspeakable things. The world is instantly better off without them.
100% this
My uber driver was some religious Mexican guy who recommended I go to Lakewood church and couldn’t bring myself to tell him how scammy and unchristian like a mega church seemed to me.
Out of curiosity why do ppl say Lakewood? I don’t go there and I don’t think I would ever tbh. I don’t believe Joel Osteen preaches the bible. It’s more so of motivational speaking more than preaching. Only thing I can think of that’s definitely strange is the money in the walls. As far as his money, he makes it from book sales and stuff like that. Not directly from Lakewood itself. I just like to judge based on facts and hearsay is exactly that. If anyone has watched his service, at the end he ends it with “find a good Bible based church, keep God in your heart…”
It's very popular here to hate Joel Osteen and Lakewood. Kind of like hating Dallas.
I'm with you - I see no scam. A scam is where someone is promised something and spends money to get it, and then does not get what was promised.
I don't think Lakewood says, "If you give us money, we'll make sure you get happiness." They just put on a good show and pass around baskets. People enjoy the show so they put money in the baskets.
I think the bible says when we pray, we're not supposed to make a show of it, but the bible also says a lot of stuff that doesn't apply anymore. (Eat nothing with fins & scales, don't cut your hair, etc.)
Pretty much every church, just google the largest 50 churches in the Houston msa and you can easily find dirt on the pastors/priests, etc.
All of them, across all religions and denominations
All of them
All churches are likely a scam for you because you don’t believe in what their teaching or selling or whatever. However, do you think the majority of people that attend these churches think it’s a scam or expecting some financial return on their time and money?
People who are being scammed don't realize they are being scammed that's what a scam is. Of course they don't, 😂
I didn't get the impression that OP thinks every church is culty or a scam. And no one who gets involved in a scam, a cult, or an organization that's cult-adjacent is saying, "Hey yeah, I see what you're doing but please take my money and mentally abuse me!" They all start out thinking they've found something good. They often stay longer than they should've, and the reasons for that vary widely.
All of them
News flash. They all are. The shit is not real.
All of fifth ward.