It's weird because it is and isn't. This has been the cycle of Canucks hockey since their inception, outside of the 70s. They build a nice lil wave every decade, 1982, 1994, the Naslund 00s, 2011, 2024, and then the wave recedes and recycles.
Every starting point turns out to be the finish line.
I mean not really though.
- 1994 was a peak of an era that won division titles in 1992 and 1993, and made the playoffs every year from 1991 to 1996.
- The Naslund era had four straight playoff berths from 2001 to 2004.
- The transition to the next group was clear with the Sedins' ascension and the arrival of Luongo, with 2007 as the peak of that
- 2011 was a peak of an era that won 5 straight division titles.
Although none of these resulted in ultimate success, at least there was sustainment. From 2000-15, the Canucks missed the playoffs 3 times (2006, 2008, 2014).
2024 on the other hand was a complete aberration. A supernova season seemingly at the end of a long rebuild that flamed out spectacularly into yet another rebuild
Regular season's a different story for sure, but all those groups had crushing, haunting playoff disappointments and there never was a "next time".
Truma includes:
- Harold Snepsts giveaway in game one of the 1982 finals
- Nathan Lafayette hits the post late in game seven 1994
- Lidstrom scores from centre on Cloutier 2002
- Game seven 2011
- Demko injured 2024
Most franchises/cores don't get a next time. What you said applies for the Sharks, Predators, Rangers, Senators, Sabres, etc. All you can hope for is sustained success and genuine playoff contention, and hope that you get the breaks at least once.
The last three teams to return to the Cup Final after losing were the 2025 Oilers, 2009 Penguins, and 1984 Oilers. In other words, you need Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby, or Wayne Gretzky to do that.
The only other team to do so within 5 years is the 2003 Devils (lost in 2001), and they were a near-dynasty around that time with the GOAT goalie.
Lidstrom vs Cloutier when we were up 2-0 vs arguably the deepest team of all time on paper changed the momentum of the series for sure but we were never expect to do much that year even if we somehow got past Detroit. The biggest disappointment in the WCE era has to be 2003 for sure especially when we up 3-1 against a Wild team who was only in their 3rd season under the old expansion rule and we seemingly had an easy path to the final after them. Either Bertuzzi (6 points in 14 playoff games) taunting Wild fans that “there won’t be a game 6” or Cloutier giving up 4 goals on 16 shot in a game 7 that we were up 2-0 was the stinker for me here.
Making the playoffs once and then immediately falling off the next season and being a basement dweller the following season is much different than having waves of 4-5 years of moderate success. Sustained success is hard in the modern NHL.
In this millennium, Arizona/Utah, Montreal, Buffalo, Columbus, Vegas, and the Islanders have never had a streak of 5 consecutive playoff berths. Only 14 franchises have had streaks of 7+ consecutive appearances, so less than half. Many teams had to be bad for a long time before finding success (10 straight years of playoff misses for both Edmonton and Florida).
The Canucks waves 4-5 consecutive appearances are kind of the epitome of mid, whereas the latest "wave" is the epitome of dumpster fire.
Go back even further and throw in Tanev, Toffoli after we traded a top prospect and 2nd round picks for him, and Markstrom who was our season MVP in 2020.
We’ve bumbled and insulted all our culture guys since the Sedins left and now look at how devoid of win in our locker room is.
Tyler Foli is one of those guys that is always worth keeping. The Habs didn't have him for a super long time (2 seasons if I recall correctly) but his presence on that Cup run was unmissable. Him, Danault, Gallagher, and Lehkonen all really gave that team a ton of heart beyond the clear stars like Price, Weber, and the soon to be stars like Suzuki and Caufield.
Yes he is absolutely worth keeping but there are times when you need to get a contract signed but the printer won't connect and you just run out of time.
I mean imagine telling Canuck fans in 2012 that they’d have a goalie tandem of Luongo and Schneider, then 2 years later have neither. This is what the Canucks do with their stars.
It was extremely clear that losing Hughes would send us into a rebuild, I'm just glad it came now and with a significant trade return rather than July 1 2027.
There were Canucks fans writing about how many Stanley cups would be won with that core and Demko. An unfortunate turn of events with nearly every player listed there.
I wouldn’t argue any differently. I guess the moral of the story is don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Hope springs eternal but outside of death nothing is absolute.
Many of those unfortunate events are also because of our own dumb decisions - and it goes back decades. I still can’t believe we drove Bure out of town by trying to screw him on his contract, and we could’ve had Gretzky if we waited one more night. Gretzky, on a team with Bure and Mogilny. F. And then we sign messier as a consolation prize. Double F.
Apparently your front office has been infatuated with Kotkaniemi for the last couple of years. I remember him being part of the original EP40 trade rumors two or three seasons ago, then as part of the supposed Boeser package that fell through at the deadline, then again as part of our offer for Quinn Hughes.
Obviously it would take a lot more than just him, though.
Our center chart is basically Aho followed by three 4Cs in a trench coat, so even at his worst he would still be a decent upgrade down the middle. If the price was right.
We are a team that’s always used cap space as a very intentional resource. Right now we have so much room, we are willing to fill it for a couple of guys who can score.
Kotkaneimi for whatever reason always played good against Vancouver when he was with the Habs. He always seemed to match up against EP40 and looked even in those matchups. It's going to be funny that EP40 and Kotkaneimi will be traded for each other in a larger trade considering how the fans tried to force a rivalry between them.
This is one of the few times I think the rivalry wasn’t fan driven at the start. It was Kotkaniemi trying to force one on Pettersson and all he did was accidentally injure Petey when he couldn’t keep up lol. That injury set off both fanbases to rally hard for their guy.
Anecdotally, I remember being particularly angry about the injury (and I think it was the common feeling among Canucks fans at the time) because Pettersson had looked flat out incredible in that game, like he was hitting another level of dominance. He was the complete embodiment of the nickname “The Alien” and we were hyped out of our minds. Then the injury happened because a reckless kid couldn’t handle playing second fiddle. They weren’t close then, and their respective careers extrapolate to prove that.
Kotkaneimi did have a few games where he had multiple points against the Canucks. He had 9 points in 9 games against them in the Covid season and was +5, funny enough he had 7 points combined against Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and Ottawa in 38 games.
EP had 2 points in 5 games in the head to head matchups that year and was -8. Kotkaneimi was the player most often paired against him.
Kotkaneimi's career is hilarious because there's 2 things he seemed to do well, play against Vancouver in the strangest season in NHL history... and put up points against Columbus. And even Kotkaneimi looking great against Columbus... EP does it better with a higher point per game stat line for that.
We’ll take Petey’s contract just to get JT the hell off our team. No, we can’t afford it and we don’t really have assets, but that’s not important right now.
Nah, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Rangers pick up EP, then those two guys fight again, then waive JT Miller once his NMC is up so they can ship another team captain to Anaheim
Just so everyone knows, this article (an headline) is entirely based on the evidence that J+R said the word rebuild. This isn’t anything concrete, it’s just that now the media needs to start a new clickbait story now that Quinn’s gone
They tried it with Hronek earlier and his agent put outa statement that was basically “he has a NTC, dipshits”
I think it's way different if you're in a rebuild. Like if you're competing or hoping to compete in the next year or two, you don't want your best players going in division, or even in conference. But if you want to rebuild and stink it out, where better than to send good players?
It's low key better to be in a stacked, aging division if you're rebuilding because you have to play them more, and by the time you're getting good, they're getting bad
I dunno I feel like every team in the league spreads their cheeks to give Vegas the best deal on rentals, trades etc. Right from the expansion draft Vegas has been getting the best possible deal. A fucking expansion team won a cup in 3 years of existence. Nonsense.
Trade Pettersson for McDavid 1:1.
Realistic answer is they cap dump somebody, or someone gets taken behind the shed for the ole Pietrangelo/Lehner LTIRetirement.
Same thing they do every year. Somehow figure out how to handle it. They get a new top player every year now, and they always figure out a way to make the cap work.
We also have sort of a log jam at Center especially if Marner stays at Center which may be something that happens i don't see a fit for him on the roster.
Brayden Point is pictured for a reason. Tampa just lost their 1C who is supposedly week to week, and I would much rather have point back, but idk — the way he tweaked his knee did not look good.
Isn't it pretty well known that the Canucks have a league subpar medical team? And that Pettersson's simple injury turned into a nagging chronic issue, at the time that medical team was headed by a chiropractor?
And that the organization specifically tasked another player to yell at him and call him slurs?
There's so much nepotism in the Canucks organization. Even the manager of the Team Store and one the equipment guys were (or still are) Aquilini family members
Subpar medical staff is the reason Eichel left Buffalo too when they mismanaged his neck injury. You'd think clubs would learn by now you want a top doctor in charge of your medical team to maintain player confidence in the club.
Terrible for a while is stretch. He’s under performing his contract. But he’s battled injuries, massive drama, and garbage teammates for years. Despite all of that he’s actually playing pretty damn well right now.
The last couple months he's been trending up. His shot rate is up and he's been putting up an elite xG% with one of the worst PDOs in the league. That's the kind of guy you bet on to start putting up points when the percentages start going his way
Not this case. He's failed the team. He's been pretty coddled (outside of Tocchet) and nothing has worked. I think it's a combination of his knee issue never going away and some sort of mental yips.
Hard to explain. He was once a promising top 5 C in the league with insane skills and great two-way play. Now he's a really reliable two-way center who is slow and doesn't impact the game that much.
I could totally see him bouncing back in Vegas, LA, Carolina... somewhere that isn't Vancouver.
The numbers are coming back, but he still doesn't have the same pop or weight to his game. It's been there here and there, but he used to dominate on a nightly basis.
I get bad linemates and such... but was hoping we'd see more by now.
He does. This article is a bunch of nothing, of course they’re listening on offers. But they’ve made it clear there’s been zero discussion about trades with the GM
considering his well known injury status & the canucks medical team being led by a chiropractor... they want someone to pay a premium for "might be better on your team", but the second he gets traded he's going to IR.
the canucks medical team being led by a chiropractor
I need to go look this up now, because I can't believe that an actual pro sports franchise would do something so stupid.
EDIT: After a little research, it seems like you're referring to Harry Sese. He was on the medical staff, but it doesn't look like he was ever in charge of it (at least not formally). He's been gone for a few years now.
Their head team physician is a fully credentialed MD, and according to the website of UBC he has been in that role for 20 years.
Someone Photoshop McKenna/stenberg onto the John Travolta pulp fiction gift. It's going to be their reaction when they walk into the locker room next year
I have always hated the fallacy of teams holding onto certain players because of the fear that once those players move on, they will perform much better elsewhere.
Like brother, if a player isn't performing for YOUR team, what the hell does it matter they do for another club?
Let's say Pettersson goes back to being a 100pt player after he gets moved somewhere else. People will just lament the fact that "oh my we just gave away a 100pt player!". Like hello, he's not providing that value for YOU, holding onto him isn't going to change that.
I feel the same with the entire “never trade with division rivals”. If the player isn’t performing on your team then it doesn’t matter because they’re providing negative value
If a player isn't performing for YOUR team, what the hell does it matter they do for another club?
Let's say Pettersson goes back to being a 100pt player after he gets moved somewhere else. People will just lament the fact that "oh my we just gave away a 100pt player!". Like hello, he's not providing that value for YOU, holding onto him isn't going to change that.
You're 100% right, but most people are not smart enough to think this way, and it scares rational thinkers away from making the right decision.
I struggle to think of a team that can fit 11.6m and would be willing to risk significant assets in the event that Pettersson doesn't bounce back and would be an incredibly overpaid 2C.
I think there'd be a few willing to gamble with how the cap is set to go up. If Petey returns to even 90% of his best season he'd be worth it.
Vancouver could take back a bad salary or two to help make it work since they are rebuilding now. I still highly doubt it happens, but I also wouldn't be THAT shocked.
It's just paradoxical where if you're a rebuilding team with cap space like the Sharks or Blackhawks you'd rather just keep the assets and flexibility for when the young players need deals and if you're a team wanting to win now you don't have the space or assets and if Pettersson doesn't bounce back you've blown the contention window.
I think of Laine where teams traded for the change of scenery and he just kept on getting worse and now might just be entirely out of the league next year.
When a team rebuilds Q Hughes and Petey are the pieces you are hoping to find. You tear it down to get a 1D and 1C, one of which is hopefully elite. Wild how they got it, and it all went so wrong.
Holland has to be all over this. Guy has been pursuing a Kopitar replacement and not many top 6 C’s that are available with the defensive metrics that Elias has this season. They’re not trading any of our current wingers for the next couple years, and I don’t see them losing their spot anytime soon for Greentree so wonder if Greentree and 2 1sts would do it. Management isnt going anywhere no matter how much us fans want Robitaille gone and our 1st and 2nd round pick prospect development/luck has been garbage since 2014 even if we did pick top 5
As was said in /r/canucks about this, GMs listen on essentially everyone. You could say this about almost anyone in the league and it would be true. This is mostly speculation based on the state of our team which, while definitely possible, is not really news.
This comment contains the full quote and is in the relevant post for those who want to read past the title:
The full quote for the lazy, emphasis mine: "Obviously, every club in the National Hockey League has untouchables, but management of the Vancouver Canucks is now using the rebuild word. So they have to be open for business, open for just about anything, and that might include finally trading Elias Pettersson. Now, we know that there’s been a ton of speculation from a media perspective on Pettersson’s future with the Vancouver Canucks. That was more into the offseason – more last season than to this point. I can tell you, there’s been no communication with the agent who represents Elias Pettersson – Pat Brisson – and they would have to communicate directly with Pettersson’s camp, because he has the no move clause. But, the Vancouver Canucks are listening and will listen to interest in Pettersson despite believing that if he gets a change of scenery and a new start somewhere else, he’s going to thrive in a new environment.”
How long before this goes to Vancouver Canucks believe a change of scenery and a new start will allow the Vancouver Canucks to thrive in a new environment?
Pettersson is at exactly a 60 point pace and he's playing over 20 minutes a game. The linemate argument is the only part of that that's accurate, and it's hardly a defence when he's scoring the same 5v5 P/60 as Drew O'Connor. If he can't score at a higher pace at 5v5 than Linus Karlsson or Aatu Raty with any linemates then that's a huge problem considering his AAV.
Yeah this is a case of mutual best interest. He gets a fresh start, his new home gets a good player, Vancouver is someone else’s fresh start, and the Canucks offload a big contract and can change the culture.
Kinda crazy how the fanbase was blaming Quinn for Petey being ass on the powerplay and saying he doesnt pass to him. Its just constant finger pointing at everything else but the direct cause of the problem.
Even now im getting downvoted in here for pointing out the truth, its not like Petey significantly stands out to the point where you're like get this man some help, he rarely ever looks like the best player on the ice.
Like if Petey had 20 5on5 points and his next highest teammate was at 10, then I would be like yeah get this guy some help, but hes not even top 3 on the team.
If the Canucks retained at least 25%, I'd be interested. Hard to argue he wouldn't be better at 2C than Andrew Copp, and we don't have a sure thing lined up, though I like our forward prospects.
Yea I’m not sure he’s moveable in his current contract at full salary. It makes sense that Vancouver wouldn’t want to be caught holding that bag of retention for 6 years but if it’s a rebuild, would dead cap space for 6 years really be that big of a deal?
A 60 point pace two way center does have some value. And I’d say that would be around $6-7 million. There always going to be this argument of him finding his game and returning to form and that might buy Vancouver another $1-2 million but personally if I was a Canucks fan I’d rather they just rip the bandaid off and get what they can for him at 25-50% retained. I know that’s not going to happen, but they could get a really good return on that.
6 years is a long time and I don't think Petey is bad enough to justify retaining more than 10% (if they have to)
I agree he's overpaid, but someone will bite, Canucks understand the contract concern so they aren't going to be looking for a haul like they were with Quinn. It's also very possible they will take a bad contract (with less term) back, something like a package involving Kotkaniemi with the Canes
How do you even project trade value for Pettersson right now, his career is such a roller coaster I’d be uncomfortable giving up premier assets with his current contract, and I doubt Vancouver would retain
Washington should be beating down the door to make this happen. They haven't had a top line Center since Backstrom. They have the assets to move and they have the cap space to take the full contract without retention.
Genuinely curious what it would take to pick him up. It’s gotta be hard to move without retention but there are a few teams that could fit him without it
Imagine telling nucks fans that they wouldn’t have Hughes, Pettersson, Miller just two seasons ago
Ya, this timeline would seem unfathomable if you told it to a Canucks fan a couple years ago after they were 1 game away from the WCF lol.
It's weird because it is and isn't. This has been the cycle of Canucks hockey since their inception, outside of the 70s. They build a nice lil wave every decade, 1982, 1994, the Naslund 00s, 2011, 2024, and then the wave recedes and recycles.
Every starting point turns out to be the finish line.
I mean not really though.
- 1994 was a peak of an era that won division titles in 1992 and 1993, and made the playoffs every year from 1991 to 1996.
- The Naslund era had four straight playoff berths from 2001 to 2004.
- The transition to the next group was clear with the Sedins' ascension and the arrival of Luongo, with 2007 as the peak of that
- 2011 was a peak of an era that won 5 straight division titles.
Although none of these resulted in ultimate success, at least there was sustainment. From 2000-15, the Canucks missed the playoffs 3 times (2006, 2008, 2014).
2024 on the other hand was a complete aberration. A supernova season seemingly at the end of a long rebuild that flamed out spectacularly into yet another rebuild
Regular season's a different story for sure, but all those groups had crushing, haunting playoff disappointments and there never was a "next time".
Truma includes: - Harold Snepsts giveaway in game one of the 1982 finals - Nathan Lafayette hits the post late in game seven 1994 - Lidstrom scores from centre on Cloutier 2002 - Game seven 2011 - Demko injured 2024
Most franchises/cores don't get a next time. What you said applies for the Sharks, Predators, Rangers, Senators, Sabres, etc. All you can hope for is sustained success and genuine playoff contention, and hope that you get the breaks at least once.
"I kept asking him why our world seemed to be collapsing and everything seemed so shitty.
"And he'd say, 'That's the way it goes, but don't forget, it goes the other way too.'
"That's the way hockey in Vancouver is.
"Usually, this is the way it goes.
"But every once in a while, it goes the other way, too."
I can't wait for it to go the other way."
• Jason Botchford
man Botchford is a huge miss
RIP
The biggest lie sports fans tell themselves is "we'll be back next year"
The last three teams to return to the Cup Final after losing were the 2025 Oilers, 2009 Penguins, and 1984 Oilers. In other words, you need Connor McDavid, Sidney Crosby, or Wayne Gretzky to do that.
The only other team to do so within 5 years is the 2003 Devils (lost in 2001), and they were a near-dynasty around that time with the GOAT goalie.
Lidstrom vs Cloutier when we were up 2-0 vs arguably the deepest team of all time on paper changed the momentum of the series for sure but we were never expect to do much that year even if we somehow got past Detroit. The biggest disappointment in the WCE era has to be 2003 for sure especially when we up 3-1 against a Wild team who was only in their 3rd season under the old expansion rule and we seemingly had an easy path to the final after them. Either Bertuzzi (6 points in 14 playoff games) taunting Wild fans that “there won’t be a game 6” or Cloutier giving up 4 goals on 16 shot in a game 7 that we were up 2-0 was the stinker for me here.
Are we counting playoff berths of 4 years as proof that means they were a constant threat above a “wave?”
I think the wave theory really applies to the Canucks, including the Cuo Finals as the flicker of a whitecap of that wave.
Making the playoffs once and then immediately falling off the next season and being a basement dweller the following season is much different than having waves of 4-5 years of moderate success. Sustained success is hard in the modern NHL.
In this millennium, Arizona/Utah, Montreal, Buffalo, Columbus, Vegas, and the Islanders have never had a streak of 5 consecutive playoff berths. Only 14 franchises have had streaks of 7+ consecutive appearances, so less than half. Many teams had to be bad for a long time before finding success (10 straight years of playoff misses for both Edmonton and Florida).
The Canucks waves 4-5 consecutive appearances are kind of the epitome of mid, whereas the latest "wave" is the epitome of dumpster fire.
“Don’t you… forget about me…”
😂
Go back a little further and throw in Horvat
Go back even further and throw in Tanev, Toffoli after we traded a top prospect and 2nd round picks for him, and Markstrom who was our season MVP in 2020.
We’ve bumbled and insulted all our culture guys since the Sedins left and now look at how devoid of win in our locker room is.
Tyler Foli is one of those guys that is always worth keeping. The Habs didn't have him for a super long time (2 seasons if I recall correctly) but his presence on that Cup run was unmissable. Him, Danault, Gallagher, and Lehkonen all really gave that team a ton of heart beyond the clear stars like Price, Weber, and the soon to be stars like Suzuki and Caufield.
Yes he is absolutely worth keeping but there are times when you need to get a contract signed but the printer won't connect and you just run out of time.
We just ran out of time on this one
I mean imagine telling Canuck fans in 2012 that they’d have a goalie tandem of Luongo and Schneider, then 2 years later have neither. This is what the Canucks do with their stars.
Our ownership is sub-human garbage
JT Miller is a locker room killer of unprecedented magnitude
Guerin's DEI pick Miller over Robo is good for something.
But he checks eatshitguerin
It was extremely clear that losing Hughes would send us into a rebuild, I'm just glad it came now and with a significant trade return rather than July 1 2027.
Imagine losing 3 1C's (Horvat) and a 1D.
There were Canucks fans writing about how many Stanley cups would be won with that core and Demko. An unfortunate turn of events with nearly every player listed there.
I highly doubt they're actual Canucks fans if they saw anything in their future but disappointment.
Reminds me of another team with an "Core four" that were going to win the cup..
I wouldn’t argue any differently. I guess the moral of the story is don’t count your chickens before they hatch. Hope springs eternal but outside of death nothing is absolute.
Many of those unfortunate events are also because of our own dumb decisions - and it goes back decades. I still can’t believe we drove Bure out of town by trying to screw him on his contract, and we could’ve had Gretzky if we waited one more night. Gretzky, on a team with Bure and Mogilny. F. And then we sign messier as a consolation prize. Double F.
They can have Miller back
https://preview.redd.it/0x1ul2qpvcdg1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=591c709dc688bd22b11ee855a6498fc36832cd32
I knew this would be top comment
I think he goes to Carolina along with Sherwood in some crazy blockbuster trade.
Lock me in
Gotta say, Kiefer would look damn fine in that black home jersey of yours.
I think he should come home and just play for free actually.
I’ll allow it if CBJ goes to the cannon jersey full time, with accompanying away cannon jerseys.
I support Petey wherever he goes, so I'd be up for Carolina winning a conference final
I gotta say, Petey would do well in the Canes ‘shoot first’ environment.
You guys will be really happy if you pick Petey out of the bargain bin.
11.6 million dollar bargain
Apparently your front office has been infatuated with Kotkaniemi for the last couple of years. I remember him being part of the original EP40 trade rumors two or three seasons ago, then as part of the supposed Boeser package that fell through at the deadline, then again as part of our offer for Quinn Hughes.
Obviously it would take a lot more than just him, though.
it’s honestly refreshing to see how high canes fans are on petey, while some canucks fans would be happy trading him for a bag of pucks
Our center chart is basically Aho followed by three 4Cs in a trench coat, so even at his worst he would still be a decent upgrade down the middle. If the price was right.
with 2c kampf due to rossi and chytil injuries, relatable.
That cap hit makes it quite scary though. As a Habs fan I would also like to have him at 2C, but i wouldnt want to take the risk at that AAV
We are a team that’s always used cap space as a very intentional resource. Right now we have so much room, we are willing to fill it for a couple of guys who can score.
I can understand why.
Kotkaneimi for whatever reason always played good against Vancouver when he was with the Habs. He always seemed to match up against EP40 and looked even in those matchups. It's going to be funny that EP40 and Kotkaneimi will be traded for each other in a larger trade considering how the fans tried to force a rivalry between them.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmJDjmB-xaE
This is one of the few times I think the rivalry wasn’t fan driven at the start. It was Kotkaniemi trying to force one on Pettersson and all he did was accidentally injure Petey when he couldn’t keep up lol. That injury set off both fanbases to rally hard for their guy.
Anecdotally, I remember being particularly angry about the injury (and I think it was the common feeling among Canucks fans at the time) because Pettersson had looked flat out incredible in that game, like he was hitting another level of dominance. He was the complete embodiment of the nickname “The Alien” and we were hyped out of our minds. Then the injury happened because a reckless kid couldn’t handle playing second fiddle. They weren’t close then, and their respective careers extrapolate to prove that.
Kotkaneimi did have a few games where he had multiple points against the Canucks. He had 9 points in 9 games against them in the Covid season and was +5, funny enough he had 7 points combined against Toronto, Calgary, Edmonton, and Ottawa in 38 games.
EP had 2 points in 5 games in the head to head matchups that year and was -8. Kotkaneimi was the player most often paired against him.
Kotkaneimi's career is hilarious because there's 2 things he seemed to do well, play against Vancouver in the strangest season in NHL history... and put up points against Columbus. And even Kotkaneimi looking great against Columbus... EP does it better with a higher point per game stat line for that.
Subscribed
Jt miller 1:1?
We need Miller back to force everyone to waive their NMC.
Internal wrecking ball for the rebuild
they should send miller to the devils then, i hear they got a lot of NMC contracts they wanna get rid of
We're gonna inject POISON into the roster
https://preview.redd.it/1up2oqio1ddg1.png?width=1031&format=png&auto=webp&s=64031cf574149276ed2745c762fb23929777e053
We’ll take Petey’s contract just to get JT the hell off our team. No, we can’t afford it and we don’t really have assets, but that’s not important right now.
This is the way
That’s what we were hoping he would do to Zibanejad last year
Nah, but I wouldn't be shocked if the Rangers pick up EP, then those two guys fight again, then waive JT Miller once his NMC is up so they can ship another team captain to Anaheim
Hey hey hey, we only sent one captain to Anaheim. Tampa is still our number one captain trading partner
We could send JT back to Tampa so he can continue his second tour of duty
Matter of time before JT finds his way back to Vancouver
The issue is his name isn't Ryan
Just so everyone knows, this article (an headline) is entirely based on the evidence that J+R said the word rebuild. This isn’t anything concrete, it’s just that now the media needs to start a new clickbait story now that Quinn’s gone
They tried it with Hronek earlier and his agent put outa statement that was basically “he has a NTC, dipshits”
Free Hronek tho.
He's too old for a rebuild and everyone who cares about hockey knows he's good as fuck.
Get ready to learn how to speak Vegas
I hate it but I honeslty think he would be incredible there.
I don’t know what their cap looks like but I can’t see how they’d fit him in after signing marner.
50% retention takes EP to $5.8m.
William Karlsson’s cap hit is $5.9m.
Not saying we do it. But hey.
I can’t see them trading within division, right? We’ll see.
I think it's way different if you're in a rebuild. Like if you're competing or hoping to compete in the next year or two, you don't want your best players going in division, or even in conference. But if you want to rebuild and stink it out, where better than to send good players?
It's low key better to be in a stacked, aging division if you're rebuilding because you have to play them more, and by the time you're getting good, they're getting bad
I dunno I feel like every team in the league spreads their cheeks to give Vegas the best deal on rentals, trades etc. Right from the expansion draft Vegas has been getting the best possible deal. A fucking expansion team won a cup in 3 years of existence. Nonsense.
6th season in the league though, not 3rd.
Yah yah whatever. Fuck em
We’d need 75% retention to even come close but fuck yeah buddy come on down.
Not with Karly potentially missing the rest of the season.
OK, but what is Vegas going to do next season when Wild Bill is healthy?
Trade Pettersson for McDavid 1:1. Realistic answer is they cap dump somebody, or someone gets taken behind the shed for the ole Pietrangelo/Lehner LTIRetirement.
Same thing they do every year. Somehow figure out how to handle it. They get a new top player every year now, and they always figure out a way to make the cap work.
Has that ever stopped us before?
I mean, it was a genuine question.
Bill doesn’t have trade protection so he might get sold off for admittedly under value. Stone is a coin flip each summer.
We also have sort of a log jam at Center especially if Marner stays at Center which may be something that happens i don't see a fit for him on the roster.
They sending back the husk of William Karlsson?
He plays center right. Flyers need center. Maybe a reunion with his favorite former coach could work? /s
I’m glad you put the /s there.
Flyers fans thought the sky was falling after just signing Dvorak for $5.15 for 5 years.
Dvorak, the C who currently has more points than the $11.6 man EP.
And like 2x the 5on5 points lol
I think the flyers have enough capital to make a solid win-win trade for both sides.
Michkov and EP can be a lethal duo
Fwiw Michkov is awful this season. Painfully average player.
Goddamn it Tocchet you had better make up with him
I feel like if Tocchet doesn’t block that trade Pettersson would. I don’t think those two guys like working with each other.
Brayden Point is pictured for a reason. Tampa just lost their 1C who is supposedly week to week, and I would much rather have point back, but idk — the way he tweaked his knee did not look good.
I bet Marty could really unlock this guy’s talent on the Habs, just saying!
The ultimate admission of "our team failed him"
They failed Quinn first
ESH
The Canucks org blows, but EP40 has also been terrible for a while
Isn't it pretty well known that the Canucks have a league subpar medical team? And that Pettersson's simple injury turned into a nagging chronic issue, at the time that medical team was headed by a chiropractor?
And that the organization specifically tasked another player to yell at him and call him slurs?
That's so hilariously dumb.
Think he was specialized as a golf chiropractor and was a friend of the owner, iirc. Dr. Harry Sese.
There's so much nepotism in the Canucks organization. Even the manager of the Team Store and one the equipment guys were (or still are) Aquilini family members
Are you being hyperbolic or is their medical team actually headed by someone without real medical training in a chiro?
It's hilariously on brand for the Nucks, and I know a thing or two about shit show clubs.
Edit: typo
He no longer is, he left the staff eventually, but he was at the time that Pettersson's injury was originally mismanaged
Hughes called out the medical staff twice on behalf of other players though before he was traded, once relatively recently
Canucks fans probably know a lot more than I do, I just don't usually buy that elite athletes "aren't trying" as a default reason
Subpar medical staff is the reason Eichel left Buffalo too when they mismanaged his neck injury. You'd think clubs would learn by now you want a top doctor in charge of your medical team to maintain player confidence in the club.
Seems like an insane place to cut costs or try to interfere for a player! You'd think they'd feel an investment in their assets being healthy
Or any doctor in the case of the Canucks, wtf
Bro you’re telling me Alan Harper fucked up pettersson’s career
Terrible for a while is stretch. He’s under performing his contract. But he’s battled injuries, massive drama, and garbage teammates for years. Despite all of that he’s actually playing pretty damn well right now.
The last couple months he's been trending up. His shot rate is up and he's been putting up an elite xG% with one of the worst PDOs in the league. That's the kind of guy you bet on to start putting up points when the percentages start going his way
Not this case. He's failed the team. He's been pretty coddled (outside of Tocchet) and nothing has worked. I think it's a combination of his knee issue never going away and some sort of mental yips.
Hard to explain. He was once a promising top 5 C in the league with insane skills and great two-way play. Now he's a really reliable two-way center who is slow and doesn't impact the game that much.
I could totally see him bouncing back in Vegas, LA, Carolina... somewhere that isn't Vancouver.
Or, the top 5 C talk set out unrealistic expectations for the guy.
not really, no. He played at that level for an extended period of time.
and his underlying numbers since december are the best in the league. his pdo is dead fucking last tho it’s hilarious. he’s still a ppg guy
The numbers are coming back, but he still doesn't have the same pop or weight to his game. It's been there here and there, but he used to dominate on a nightly basis.
I get bad linemates and such... but was hoping we'd see more by now.
I thought Petey wanted to stay
he does but management doesn’t. he does have an nmc tho so this will be interesting for sure
Lies.
He does. This article is a bunch of nothing, of course they’re listening on offers. But they’ve made it clear there’s been zero discussion about trades with the GM
So they want someone to pay a premium for "might be better"?
ding ding ding
considering his well known injury status & the canucks medical team being led by a chiropractor... they want someone to pay a premium for "might be better on your team", but the second he gets traded he's going to IR.
I need to go look this up now, because I can't believe that an actual pro sports franchise would do something so stupid.
EDIT: After a little research, it seems like you're referring to Harry Sese. He was on the medical staff, but it doesn't look like he was ever in charge of it (at least not formally). He's been gone for a few years now.
Their head team physician is a fully credentialed MD, and according to the website of UBC he has been in that role for 20 years.
He’d be perfect on our first trio !
With what cap?
He’s a center iceman, right? So between Damidov and Slaf?
Could be a great fit. EP does his best work with playdriving wingers who can pass and that’s both of those two.
I'm not gonna lie, I think your team would be the best fit
Don't think he could handle Montreal respectfully
I agree
Someone Photoshop McKenna/stenberg onto the John Travolta pulp fiction gift. It's going to be their reaction when they walk into the locker room next year
I have always hated the fallacy of teams holding onto certain players because of the fear that once those players move on, they will perform much better elsewhere.
Like brother, if a player isn't performing for YOUR team, what the hell does it matter they do for another club?
Let's say Pettersson goes back to being a 100pt player after he gets moved somewhere else. People will just lament the fact that "oh my we just gave away a 100pt player!". Like hello, he's not providing that value for YOU, holding onto him isn't going to change that.
I feel the same with the entire “never trade with division rivals”. If the player isn’t performing on your team then it doesn’t matter because they’re providing negative value
You're 100% right, but most people are not smart enough to think this way, and it scares rational thinkers away from making the right decision.
Dreger is always wrong about the Canucks.
That said, the article clearly just speculation.
what if someone trades a haul for him and then the the other Petterson arrives on the plane
the other Petterson for the other Nylander, the trade is 1-for-1
Shh... that's always been the plan. Its why we keep acquiring Pettersons. Dont tip them off
I struggle to think of a team that can fit 11.6m and would be willing to risk significant assets in the event that Pettersson doesn't bounce back and would be an incredibly overpaid 2C.
Canes are desperate for a 2C and have the cap space
Why they already have Jesperi Kotkaniemi signed at a reasonable 4.85m
No, I said we need a 2C not a third 4C
I think there'd be a few willing to gamble with how the cap is set to go up. If Petey returns to even 90% of his best season he'd be worth it.
Vancouver could take back a bad salary or two to help make it work since they are rebuilding now. I still highly doubt it happens, but I also wouldn't be THAT shocked.
It's just paradoxical where if you're a rebuilding team with cap space like the Sharks or Blackhawks you'd rather just keep the assets and flexibility for when the young players need deals and if you're a team wanting to win now you don't have the space or assets and if Pettersson doesn't bounce back you've blown the contention window.
I think of Laine where teams traded for the change of scenery and he just kept on getting worse and now might just be entirely out of the league next year.
When a team rebuilds Q Hughes and Petey are the pieces you are hoping to find. You tear it down to get a 1D and 1C, one of which is hopefully elite. Wild how they got it, and it all went so wrong.
A sales pitch of “he’s been a problem here, I promise he’ll be better for you” is wild.
Holland has to be all over this. Guy has been pursuing a Kopitar replacement and not many top 6 C’s that are available with the defensive metrics that Elias has this season. They’re not trading any of our current wingers for the next couple years, and I don’t see them losing their spot anytime soon for Greentree so wonder if Greentree and 2 1sts would do it. Management isnt going anywhere no matter how much us fans want Robitaille gone and our 1st and 2nd round pick prospect development/luck has been garbage since 2014 even if we did pick top 5
As was said in /r/canucks about this, GMs listen on essentially everyone. You could say this about almost anyone in the league and it would be true. This is mostly speculation based on the state of our team which, while definitely possible, is not really news.
This comment contains the full quote and is in the relevant post for those who want to read past the title:
https://reddit.com/comments/1qcadsu/comment/nzgr1gb
The full quote for the lazy, emphasis mine: "Obviously, every club in the National Hockey League has untouchables, but management of the Vancouver Canucks is now using the rebuild word. So they have to be open for business, open for just about anything, and that might include finally trading Elias Pettersson. Now, we know that there’s been a ton of speculation from a media perspective on Pettersson’s future with the Vancouver Canucks. That was more into the offseason – more last season than to this point. I can tell you, there’s been no communication with the agent who represents Elias Pettersson – Pat Brisson – and they would have to communicate directly with Pettersson’s camp, because he has the no move clause. But, the Vancouver Canucks are listening and will listen to interest in Pettersson despite believing that if he gets a change of scenery and a new start somewhere else, he’s going to thrive in a new environment.”
Oh man, I love the player but now our center depth is good...
Darn it Buffalo! Even when I'm happy I'm mad. This is what you've done to me!
How long before this goes to Vancouver Canucks believe a change of scenery and a new start will allow the Vancouver Canucks to thrive in a new environment?
Come to the ducks you beautiful Swedish bastard
Chicago needs scoring and salary
He's playing at a 70 point pace, playing with no one who can score, while playing less minutes than David Kampf.
This organization is an utter disaster
You unfortunately made 2 out of 3 of those facts up. He's on a 60 pt pace and he plays 20 min a night compared to Kampf's 15.
Pettersson is at exactly a 60 point pace and he's playing over 20 minutes a game. The linemate argument is the only part of that that's accurate, and it's hardly a defence when he's scoring the same 5v5 P/60 as Drew O'Connor. If he can't score at a higher pace at 5v5 than Linus Karlsson or Aatu Raty with any linemates then that's a huge problem considering his AAV.
You can do that?! Just go on the internet and lie?
60 point pace, with PP1 time.
At 5on5 hes scoring at a lower pace or same pace as guys who were in the AHL last season.
I could understand the arguement that he needs better linemates if he was heads and shoulders above guys at 5on5, but he isnt.
He makes 11.6mil.
If your 1c needs elite wingers to even sniff ppg he isn’t meant to be your 1c
Hughes spent his earlier years as our 1D good dman numbers with Luke Schenn and Noah Juulsen as his pairing
Hell when Petey was actually good he was ppg and above with Kuzmenko and Mikheyev on his wing, he just isn’t the player he used to be
Exactly. He was on a PP w quinn hughes and for the last year and half and still produced that horrifically.
Trading him will be a massive win for the organization regardless of the return, need to completely change the culture of the team.
Yeah this is a case of mutual best interest. He gets a fresh start, his new home gets a good player, Vancouver is someone else’s fresh start, and the Canucks offload a big contract and can change the culture.
Kinda crazy how the fanbase was blaming Quinn for Petey being ass on the powerplay and saying he doesnt pass to him. Its just constant finger pointing at everything else but the direct cause of the problem.
Even now im getting downvoted in here for pointing out the truth, its not like Petey significantly stands out to the point where you're like get this man some help, he rarely ever looks like the best player on the ice.
Like if Petey had 20 5on5 points and his next highest teammate was at 10, then I would be like yeah get this guy some help, but hes not even top 3 on the team.
Burn everything down.. the arena too man.
If the Canucks retained at least 25%, I'd be interested. Hard to argue he wouldn't be better at 2C than Andrew Copp, and we don't have a sure thing lined up, though I like our forward prospects.
hes on year 2 of an 8 year deal there is no way they are retaining anywhere close to 25%, its unlikely they will retain anything at all
Yea I’m not sure he’s moveable in his current contract at full salary. It makes sense that Vancouver wouldn’t want to be caught holding that bag of retention for 6 years but if it’s a rebuild, would dead cap space for 6 years really be that big of a deal?
A 60 point pace two way center does have some value. And I’d say that would be around $6-7 million. There always going to be this argument of him finding his game and returning to form and that might buy Vancouver another $1-2 million but personally if I was a Canucks fan I’d rather they just rip the bandaid off and get what they can for him at 25-50% retained. I know that’s not going to happen, but they could get a really good return on that.
6 years is a long time and I don't think Petey is bad enough to justify retaining more than 10% (if they have to)
I agree he's overpaid, but someone will bite, Canucks understand the contract concern so they aren't going to be looking for a haul like they were with Quinn. It's also very possible they will take a bad contract (with less term) back, something like a package involving Kotkaniemi with the Canes
How do you even project trade value for Pettersson right now, his career is such a roller coaster I’d be uncomfortable giving up premier assets with his current contract, and I doubt Vancouver would retain
To Philly for like Couturier, Cates, Ristolainen, and a 1st would be the funniest thing
(Vancouver totally needs a culture reset they should absolutely get two 2Cs and Ristolainen who they can flip imo)
(Totally fair evaluations in my unbiased opinion)
This the type of deal I'd love wpg to pursue
Would be a heck of a risk given the Canucks would want futures coming back.
I would also say that if I was trying to trade 11 mil
Washington should be beating down the door to make this happen. They haven't had a top line Center since Backstrom. They have the assets to move and they have the cap space to take the full contract without retention.
Going to Chicago
https://preview.redd.it/tmgyfs9qzcdg1.jpeg?width=1098&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6e577965442ad7b4dfebf4dd16f757754f4d64bc
that town is only big enough for one elias pettersson and they're clearly pushing the right one away /s
Seguin to LTIR for cap space now, trade Harley for cap space later, then go get Rasmus Andersson or something if we need another D-man.
Would be tough to make it work for the Stars. Also not sure who has to add something to that trade
Chris Drury has the opportunity to do the funniest thing
What's that? Leo Carlsson needs a swedish line mate?
Can I offer you one Palat and one Hamilton?
Such an unethical tank.
“We know he’s gonna be great as soon as he escapes what we’re doing to him…”
New York has the opportunity to do the funniest thing.
I'm 150% confident wherever he ends up he'll flourish.
Something in the water here in Vancouver taints basically every player that has ever touched the jersey.
https://preview.redd.it/w4jx6d3x3ddg1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cd9a4e9e7c46fcf5619e83099ddb46ad0429b4e8
This man is tortured. Stop it Vancouver, don’t kill him!
One Elias please. Kent, sell the farm!
Bro at that point they basically have to blow it up, right?
The Rangers have the chance to do the funniest thing
Genuinely curious what it would take to pick him up. It’s gotta be hard to move without retention but there are a few teams that could fit him without it
To me, it said it all when Brock Boeser went up for the ceremonial puck drop last night in Ottawa
https://preview.redd.it/ky0alcze2ddg1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c83fb926a375be3c36d542193c418bfb525142b3
Sir the Canucks want to trade you
A reclamation project you say
If I hear Washington's name in rumors, I know he'll be good in the future
Did Bo and Pettersson get along?
I don't think we have the assets or the cap space anyway. But still
Elias Pettersson the defenceman?!
Francesco aqualini is a terrorist.
If only Vancouver could trade Vancouver to a place with nicer scenery.
He maybe would have value if he was paid less... but 11.5 million with 6 years left on his contract afterward ?