Edit: I'm not gonna judge anyone for liking him as he is a fictional character and plenty of Val fans are regular people who would never support/condone his actions irl. Just like Vox/Alastor/Rosie fans wouldn't support theirs. Some people just enjoy villains as characters
Yeah. Some villains are really over the top. They make it easy to sit back and chuckle, because at the end of the day, there’s no way in the seven hells they could possibly exist in real life.
Then there’s others. Characters like Valentino or Makima who, while comically evil, certain parts of their plans (mainly the manipulation) are uncomfortably based on reality. To the point you almost think they’re real. But then you remember one’s a 14 foot tall moth and the other is a redhead with literal finger guns, and you go back to being relieved.
Real red heads do have mythical traits. For one, every red head i know is immune to hangovers like super power. Fun drunks, without the groning and complaining in the morning.
I survived a several day long bout of severe alcohol poisoning without going to the hospital if that helps. It was most certainly hell though, and I definitely complained.
Don't forget him straight up raping Angel in the music video. Even if it's not canon, you can't show that kind of thing and expect it to do anything but stick with people. Specifically those who have suffered similar atrocities and have their PTSD engaged. people who have every right to say their abusers should never be redeemed or excused... or invited to live in the same hotel they're at by one of their closest friends.
Except there absolutely have been serial murderers like Alastor, and genocidal populist dictators/cult leaders like Vox. We Americans just generally don't fear these people because we have the privilege of not being their victims.
I think all this just makes Val a good character. In truth, many abusers and manipulators are charming and charismatic. Hell, I know an abuser who is in a loving relationship with a feminist activist. The world is just crazy like that. Val's character is awesome because we see why people would fall under his spell. He's pretty, charismatic, dresses well and seems very comfortable in his sexuality. This makes his actions all the more horrifying.
I think Val’s character gets the worst of it because everyone else’s crimes are more impersonal or played for laughs.
Like we don’t stop to think of the families that the others have killed, or the trauma they likely contributed to. It helps that the humans in living world in this universe are all sort of dumb sims/NPC-like characters.
But we see Val’s crimes up close because of his direct influence on Angel. We see Angel’s trauma and pain and we hate Val more for it. Val’s actions are not played for laughs like the others.
Would audiences still hate Val the same if his crimes were done off screen/implied? Eh, idk.
But I think people still hold a double standard. Yes, I like vox as a character, he's fun and pathetic, but his abuse of angel is just as bad as Val even though it's not sexual in nature. I also like Al as a character, but I do not agree with the moralizing over his threats of torture towards husk. Husk did not deserve anything because he "spoke out of turn" or doubted Al's ability, Al was not in the right at all. I actually hope we get the worst of Al next season if only to put to bed the thought of him torturing sinners is just a comedic skit and not as bad as vox or val.
I'll never forget this class we took on medieval art in which we were once asked to depict a modern vision of hell, with an emphasis on being macabre. Most people stuck with torture, often using modern devices or slang, but otherwise sticking to the traditional "hell as fire and brimstone". Mine was simply a picture of a giant pink eraser. Sliding across a bone. Rubbing it dry as the victim hears that high-pitched squeak.
Now that's obviously horrifying, but why did it cause such a visceral reaction compared to, say, someone being hung by their own intestines? Or being burned alive by imps? Simple: it was relatable. Real. And so our minds have been hardwired to avoid it at all costs. It's why we speak in hushed tones about rapists and child molestors, but will openly say "bear" without any fear. Meanwhile, the word itself is literally a stand-in for the OG word for "bear" that has been lost to the ages because writing it down was so taboo... in cultures where "being mauled to death by a bear" was not an uncommon way to go.
I had the misfortune of being a very curious and strong headed child so I insisted on visiting the "medieval torture museum" at a Renaissance Faire when I was definitely not mature enough for the level of violence on display, but many of those tortures still give me quite a visceral squick.
Season 2 Val is an incredible character. I didn't like him in season 1 because like you said, it hit too close to home. If we go back to focusing on Angel's abuse next season I'm not sure I'll still love Val's character, however I have ALWAYS since season one said he is great at what he was created for. He's an incredible villain. I've always acknowledged that he's a great character, it's just objectively true. I was so happy to see more sides to him this season.
Ehh I have to be fair, after season 2 I noticed that most people don't insult you anymore for liking villains, mostly because they made everyone more likeable in season 2, season 1 had too little time to make characters with little screen time likeable
It used to be so bad before season 2, atleast from my experience. I got bullied in other platforms because I like terrible people that don't exist. Valentino fans had it so rough in particular
Same reason even people who like Voldemort or Lucius Malfoy HATE Dolores Umbridge. It's the kind of evil that's relatable, and more people have known a Valentino than have survived an Alastor.
I’ll never forget when my Dad was listening to the audiobook. He hardly ever really gets into fiction, usually can’t even bother to remember character names. He came home from work and the first thing he said to me was “I want to drive nails into her eyes” and I was like “Oh you’re at that chapter, huh?”
He’s a lawyer. He deals with folks like her all the time. It’s more visceral.
He probably wouldn’t lose sleep if a family was collateral damage, but it does seem like his violence tends to be specifically targeted.
But he would also probably enjoy the anguish for the loved ones of whoever he disposed of. But yeah, I don’t think he would flip it and kill someone to punish someone else.
I think “abuser” is underselling Val’s actions a lot. He’s not just an abuser. He is a serial rapist and a sex trafficker. He owns a literal sex slave that he gleefully rapes and tortures (probably more but Angel is the only one we have hard confirmation on).
You can like Val. Genuinely I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Hell I think his actions are less reprehensible than Alastor’s in a couple of ways. But I do think people are trying to sand him down a bit. People like to throw around that “who’s your favorite war criminal” image but that does require you to recognize the crimes of the character.
Personally, I don't exactly like Val's character; he just makes me laugh sometimes. I find his twisted and foolish nature amusing. And yes, you're right, it bothers me that they sometimes downplay these kinds of issues, like with the sinners themselves, minimizing the past actions of practically every character, like Vaggie, whom Charlie dismissed as if it were nothing, even though she killed thousands of her kind. Yes, they were sinners, rapists, genocidal maniacs, and cannibals, but that's not the point. The point is that they've repeatedly minimized what the characters did in the past, as if it meant nothing, both in life and in Hell, as if the burden or the order meant nothing to them. Narratively, they tend to take the weight off these characters' shoulders as if they hadn't done anything wrong, and it literally seems to have the opposite effect; it makes people like them even more, like with Pentius, Angel Dust, and many other characters 😓🫤
I feel like people forget that Vox actively supports his bfs fucked up shenanigans and also delights in torturing angel dust. The vees have a little sex traffiking ring set up and people forget that theyre funding each other
Don’t forget that Val isn’t JUST a rapist and mass sexual abuser…. He ALSO shoots and kills sinners on a regular basis for pleasure / stress relief 💕💕💕 (love that sm for him, he’s such a lil diva💋)
Well, at least he's never shown using angelic steel bullets so the sinners never died. While Vox and Al effectively ended their victims's lifes on Earth forever.
Rarely anyone will ever meet a cannibal
Very few people will ever meet someone who has murdered someone, let alone many
On top of it, you can never meet the victims
Its very well possible though that you have met someone who was a victim of rape and/or abuse
Vox: Abuses and horrifically tortures Angel before taking away all of his cognitive thought, abuses and sexually assaults Alastor, tells multiple people to commit suicide; is a fan favorite.
I will always blame it on how well written Val actually is. Because there are at least 4-5 characters worse than him morally, being the 3 in the meme + Adam and Lute
Its basically like Endeavor and LoV from MHA. LoV are all basically domestic terrorists but people love them and want them to be redeemed and have a happy ending
Meanwhile Endeavor was a horribly abusive father that is now trying to atone for what he did knowing he most likely never can fully, but everyone wants him to burn in the deepest pits of hell
People relate more to abuse victims than serial killer victims
There is absolutely no requirement that your favorite character be a good person. They just have to be interesting, and all of these characters are extremely interesting. There's nothing wrong with liking any of them as characters.
Enjoying a villain is not the same as liking them or their actions. Val is a good villain specifically because he is so intimidating and sinister but also kind of a dumb pathetic loser.
Handsome jack has the same trope. He is such a smug sinister dick but also kind of a pathetic dipshit as soon as he isnt in a position of power
People like them because they're funny, cool, or hot
Val isn't either, and he got slapped with the rapist tag, so people don't like him
Now, what's debatable is whether or not raping someone is worse than maiming them/eating them alive
What's NOT debatable is whether or not you should treat the fucking PSYCHOPATHS like they're someone you should even be within sightline of
They aren't good people, and for some reason people keep forgetting that, these are the most deranged, garbage, insane people imaginable and if they existed today they'd make international news and be considered the absolute bottom of the barrel people. And there are STILL people defending them. Acting like it's fine because they're standing next to a rapist
I don’t think those are comparable, Hitler killed millions of people for simply being in the wrong ethnic group. Hell is filled with people who range from random assholes to war criminals. Like, hell rewards the most evil people and encourages exploitation as much as possible. The other difference is that Sera actually felt bad after it was proven that sinners can be redeemed and tried to reconcile with hell (Even if she went about it the wrong way)
My point is that Hitler targeted ethnic groups while the extermination target objective bad people. The extermination’s didn’t discriminate towards specific groups of people. The only reason overlords didn’t die through them is because they had enough power and influence to have contingencies for them
actually exterminations targeted only people, as Lute inform us in first episode hellborns had pardon from exterminations, with for hell is pretty much racial separation
Bro, are you intentionally missing my point? Sinners are in HELL, a place where people go after they die because of their bad deeds. They are objectively bad people. Thats the entire fucking point of the fucking show. Proving if sinners (people punished for their misdeeds) can be redeem. This isn’t a race thing, it’s a debate of rehabilitation and capital punishment
In this case it's a mess really if Adam and Lute are in Heaven and Sir Pentious was in hell, specially that nobody in heaven knows what gets people into heaven, so they don't know how bad person have to be to be in hell either.
As a victim I really do get annoyed when people idolize Alastor and vox when they are significantly worse then Valentino. I get it hits closer to home for some people, but you literally gotta think, I would rather be raped a thousand times then be murdered and eaten. I would rather kill a murderer then a rapist, because will the rapist probably do that again? Yes. But is he going to literally kill a thousand more people if I let him wall? No. He isn't.
While I don't wholly disagree, he is also a rapist, a manipulator, and a predator. While all of them are horrid people(because duh. That's why they're in hell), I would put him as worse than the rest.
As someone who has been falsely accused, anyone who could do such things is vile and disgusting. It truly shows how well the character is written and the VA absolutely nailing it that Val inspires so much hate
Ill be honest and i may get some hate and i welcome it everyone has opinions but i would rather be friends with someone who kills or eats people than someome would would abuse their partner/children and or workers
People have already explained how sexual assault is far more common, making it hit close to home for a lot of people.
I'd also like to mention that, unlike vox and alastor whose victims are mostly unnamed background characters, and whose abusive behavior isn't focused on all that much, val's defining character trait for a casual audience is that he's angel's rapist.
It's the very first thing you learn about him, unlike the other villainous characters who are introduced with their actual personality traits, making you interested and attached to them before revealing what they actually did to land in hell, and what bad things they do.
Most of val's screentime in season 1 especially is spent abusing angel dust. Meanwhile, alastor and rosie are both introduced as slightly sinister and ill intentioned allies, and vox is first defined by his rivalry with alastor and the fact that he reigns val in, and they each only get a handful of scenes (if more than one) actually showing them doing bad things without anything else to distract you from that.
We see abusers all our life. So of course we're going to be sour about it.
Yet for those of more threatening dispositions, yeah that's a diamond in the rough.
And if you know your medical lingo, Cannibalism isn't as cracked up as you think it is (a medical condition known as Pica, where you consume non-food things, like hair, paper or flesh, depending on the type of Pica)
Someone said it best:The ONLY reasons Val gets as much backlash is because he's personally hurting a main cast member.
They could literally have removed this plot line and made it a background thing against someone else and suddenly he's just a quirky funny overlord.Its only when the audience is angry does someone with a significantly less K/D then Vaggie suddenly get treated as the worst.
I find it wild how people act like Alastor is an okay person. The difference between him and Adam is that Adam waited for judgment before execution. Alastor also declared himself judge.
It's the fact that a lot of murder and other crimes are shown a lot in Media and we've been desensitized to it, we don't all have a Vox or Alastor IRL, but there are plenty more real people like Valentino
Some people genuinely think a rapist is the worst thing you can be. That you can de redeemed for anything but that. Or whatever they think is unforgivable. They all have their reasons for it, but that's kinda it at the end of the day.
You can say it's because they end the suffering immediately, while val just keeps them alive to repeatedly continue the suffering for their entire life. In some ways it's more messed up.
People are more likely to have been abused then they are to have been affected by a murderer, a cannibal or the victim of genocide (maybe one that last one, I think the statistics on that one might be skewed for some people.)
This is true and is just a reflection of how society condems sexual abusers (totally deserved) but is apologetic to other violent crimes cuz we live in a world where violence is a way to achieve things rather than the crime it is.
If we were supposed to hate Alastor and Rosie, we would. Adam got one scene and was immediately at the top of everyone's shitlist. Same with Valentino.
They had to do more with Vox but that's because he's too damn charismatic.
I stand by rape being a much higher crime than killing. There can at least sometimes be justifiable reasons behind killing. Never is there a reason under any circumstance for somebody to be raped. Not one.
Its incredible to me how some mfers can't wrap their head around why Val is more hated.
Cannibalism - Murder - Genocide - SA
Only one of those is widespread enough for most people to have interacted with someone who's been a victim of it. I've never known anyone who was a victim of cannibalism, murder, or genocide. I have none five to six people that were victims of various SA.
On top of that, only one of those has widespread defenders downplaying the severity of those crimes. People downplay or ignore a lot of SA that goes on, or deny that certain things are SA.
Vox, Alastor, and Rosie are more cartoon villains, while Val's brand of evil is something much more mundane. You might never meet a charismatic genocidal leader, or a sociopathic serial killer, or an old timey cannibal. But I 100% guarantee you know or will know an abuser at some point.
Yeah, but it's implying that Lust as sin is kinda look down upon compare to others. I didn't say Ozzy was bad and such, hell he's practicing Chastity his counterparts.
Yeah, if you’re in a situation where basically the person is already dead and if you don’t eat them you’ll die of hunger yourself, it’s legal, it’s so survivors of plane crashes and stuff don’t go to jail for just surviving
If the murder is out of necessity, I believe you'll at least get a reduced sentence. It's why "drawing straws" amongst sailors never ended with the survivors being executed, they commited the murder out of necessity AND they did so with everyone agreeing to it (As far as we know of).
I mean, they're all bad people at the end of the day, lol. I suppose Val's actions just hit closer to home for some people
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Edit: I'm not gonna judge anyone for liking him as he is a fictional character and plenty of Val fans are regular people who would never support/condone his actions irl. Just like Vox/Alastor/Rosie fans wouldn't support theirs. Some people just enjoy villains as characters
Yeah. Some villains are really over the top. They make it easy to sit back and chuckle, because at the end of the day, there’s no way in the seven hells they could possibly exist in real life.
Then there’s others. Characters like Valentino or Makima who, while comically evil, certain parts of their plans (mainly the manipulation) are uncomfortably based on reality. To the point you almost think they’re real. But then you remember one’s a 14 foot tall moth and the other is a redhead with literal finger guns, and you go back to being relieved.
I like how you group being a redhead in with the mythical traits. It tickled me
As a real life ginger.. Yeah
Real red heads do have mythical traits. For one, every red head i know is immune to hangovers like super power. Fun drunks, without the groning and complaining in the morning.
Damn, my redheaded ass feels gypped out some awesome super powers. Fun sure, hangover immune, not in the least.
Oh man! Guess they were wrong when they both claimed it was due to their red hair and all red heads had this ability 😭😹
I survived a several day long bout of severe alcohol poisoning without going to the hospital if that helps. It was most certainly hell though, and I definitely complained.
Don't forget him straight up raping Angel in the music video. Even if it's not canon, you can't show that kind of thing and expect it to do anything but stick with people. Specifically those who have suffered similar atrocities and have their PTSD engaged.
people who have every right to say their abusers should never be redeemed or excused... or invited to live in the same hotel they're at by one of their closest friends.Except there absolutely have been serial murderers like Alastor, and genocidal populist dictators/cult leaders like Vox. We Americans just generally don't fear these people because we have the privilege of not being their victims.
Half of the people who have been in a cult don’t realize it’s a cult. Take utah as an example
Very true. Vox is so effective because of just how real he IS. Even though nobody seems to realize.
I think all this just makes Val a good character. In truth, many abusers and manipulators are charming and charismatic. Hell, I know an abuser who is in a loving relationship with a feminist activist. The world is just crazy like that. Val's character is awesome because we see why people would fall under his spell. He's pretty, charismatic, dresses well and seems very comfortable in his sexuality. This makes his actions all the more horrifying.
I think Val’s character gets the worst of it because everyone else’s crimes are more impersonal or played for laughs.
Like we don’t stop to think of the families that the others have killed, or the trauma they likely contributed to. It helps that the humans in living world in this universe are all sort of dumb sims/NPC-like characters.
But we see Val’s crimes up close because of his direct influence on Angel. We see Angel’s trauma and pain and we hate Val more for it. Val’s actions are not played for laughs like the others.
Would audiences still hate Val the same if his crimes were done off screen/implied? Eh, idk.
But I think people still hold a double standard. Yes, I like vox as a character, he's fun and pathetic, but his abuse of angel is just as bad as Val even though it's not sexual in nature. I also like Al as a character, but I do not agree with the moralizing over his threats of torture towards husk. Husk did not deserve anything because he "spoke out of turn" or doubted Al's ability, Al was not in the right at all. I actually hope we get the worst of Al next season if only to put to bed the thought of him torturing sinners is just a comedic skit and not as bad as vox or val.
yeah, its like how Negan in TWD is one of my favorite Characters in the show, but that doesnt mean im gonna go bash some dudes head in with a bat.
Crowley from Supernatural is one of my favourites, but that doesn't mean I'd support everything he does, lol.
for real, like just because we like villains doesnt mean we support their actions.
also, good to see you back flimsy.
Exactly. He tortured a shapeshifter that wore his own face. It's funny how some people think that liking villains is the same as supporting them
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I'll never forget this class we took on medieval art in which we were once asked to depict a modern vision of hell, with an emphasis on being macabre. Most people stuck with torture, often using modern devices or slang, but otherwise sticking to the traditional "hell as fire and brimstone". Mine was simply a picture of a giant pink eraser. Sliding across a bone. Rubbing it dry as the victim hears that high-pitched squeak.
Now that's obviously horrifying, but why did it cause such a visceral reaction compared to, say, someone being hung by their own intestines? Or being burned alive by imps? Simple: it was relatable. Real. And so our minds have been hardwired to avoid it at all costs. It's why we speak in hushed tones about rapists and child molestors, but will openly say "bear" without any fear. Meanwhile, the word itself is literally a stand-in for the OG word for "bear" that has been lost to the ages because writing it down was so taboo... in cultures where "being mauled to death by a bear" was not an uncommon way to go.
I had the misfortune of being a very curious and strong headed child so I insisted on visiting the "medieval torture museum" at a Renaissance Faire when I was definitely not mature enough for the level of violence on display, but many of those tortures still give me quite a visceral squick.
Flimsy spitting facts here I totally agree
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would
THIS! EXACTLY THIS!
Many, many people unfortunately
That is my thought, tons of people know or know of someone like Val, hardly anyone knows a cult leader, serial killer, or cannibal.
I’m sure if murder victims watched the show Al would make them uncomfortable too
yeah... right
I want to meet someone who has actually met a cannibal and truly hates Rosie.
Val's crime of rape hits far close to home for some people than the other crimes. But of course there's nothing wrong with liking val as a character
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Season 2 Val is an incredible character. I didn't like him in season 1 because like you said, it hit too close to home. If we go back to focusing on Angel's abuse next season I'm not sure I'll still love Val's character, however I have ALWAYS since season one said he is great at what he was created for. He's an incredible villain. I've always acknowledged that he's a great character, it's just objectively true. I was so happy to see more sides to him this season.
Needlerat
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I think it might be because it's unlikely that a murder/cannibalism victim ever takes a shot to the show, just my thoughts tho.
Ehh I have to be fair, after season 2 I noticed that most people don't insult you anymore for liking villains, mostly because they made everyone more likeable in season 2, season 1 had too little time to make characters with little screen time likeable
It used to be so bad before season 2, atleast from my experience. I got bullied in other platforms because I like terrible people that don't exist. Valentino fans had it so rough in particular
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wild flair lol (i CANNOT be talkin')
Lol I take it as a compliment. Also I believe this GIF will activate your brain
Processing img buhmtx11208g1...
I definitely should not be taking about freaky flairs haha
same lmao
God forbid women have hobbies.
Are men allowed to have hobbies too, or do only women get to eat people?
Alastor would definitely go with the former.
Well then I'm gonna assume it's a-okay and go back to eating this arm!
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Same reason even people who like Voldemort or Lucius Malfoy HATE Dolores Umbridge. It's the kind of evil that's relatable, and more people have known a Valentino than have survived an Alastor.
Bingo.
I’ll never forget when my Dad was listening to the audiobook. He hardly ever really gets into fiction, usually can’t even bother to remember character names. He came home from work and the first thing he said to me was “I want to drive nails into her eyes” and I was like “Oh you’re at that chapter, huh?”
He’s a lawyer. He deals with folks like her all the time. It’s more visceral.
Perfect explanation. Very good sir.
Hes also a murderer too, you can be killed and not even be the reason hes mad
Hes not just an abuser
Yeah, Al does horrific things to people who irk him in any way but I don't remember him ever threatening their families the way Valentino does.
He probably wouldn’t lose sleep if a family was collateral damage, but it does seem like his violence tends to be specifically targeted.
But he would also probably enjoy the anguish for the loved ones of whoever he disposed of. But yeah, I don’t think he would flip it and kill someone to punish someone else.
I don’t think he would ever care if a family was collateral
Sorry that was a typo. Should’ve been “wouldn’t lose sleep”
He never threatens family but he would 100% not lose any sleep if he killed them in collateral damage
We stan a multifaceted king.
Fair enough
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I think “abuser” is underselling Val’s actions a lot. He’s not just an abuser. He is a serial rapist and a sex trafficker. He owns a literal sex slave that he gleefully rapes and tortures (probably more but Angel is the only one we have hard confirmation on).
You can like Val. Genuinely I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that. Hell I think his actions are less reprehensible than Alastor’s in a couple of ways. But I do think people are trying to sand him down a bit. People like to throw around that “who’s your favorite war criminal” image but that does require you to recognize the crimes of the character.
That’s exactly how I feel about it! It feels icky seeing so many people downplay his actions, he’s disgustingly abusive.
Personally, I don't exactly like Val's character; he just makes me laugh sometimes. I find his twisted and foolish nature amusing. And yes, you're right, it bothers me that they sometimes downplay these kinds of issues, like with the sinners themselves, minimizing the past actions of practically every character, like Vaggie, whom Charlie dismissed as if it were nothing, even though she killed thousands of her kind. Yes, they were sinners, rapists, genocidal maniacs, and cannibals, but that's not the point. The point is that they've repeatedly minimized what the characters did in the past, as if it meant nothing, both in life and in Hell, as if the burden or the order meant nothing to them. Narratively, they tend to take the weight off these characters' shoulders as if they hadn't done anything wrong, and it literally seems to have the opposite effect; it makes people like them even more, like with Pentius, Angel Dust, and many other characters 😓🫤
I feel like people forget that Vox actively supports his bfs fucked up shenanigans and also delights in torturing angel dust. The vees have a little sex traffiking ring set up and people forget that theyre funding each other
Val is the most hilarious out of the three but I hate his guts
Mood
Don’t forget that Val isn’t JUST a rapist and mass sexual abuser…. He ALSO shoots and kills sinners on a regular basis for pleasure / stress relief 💕💕💕 (love that sm for him, he’s such a lil diva💋)
As if the rest don’t shoot and kill sinners for the lols too
NO EXACTLY LOL, I love all these horrid little bastards 🫶
He even does it out of anger towards others (not even the target he shot)
Well, at least he's never shown using angelic steel bullets so the sinners never died. While Vox and Al effectively ended their victims's lifes on Earth forever.
Rarely anyone will ever meet a cannibal Very few people will ever meet someone who has murdered someone, let alone many On top of it, you can never meet the victims
Its very well possible though that you have met someone who was a victim of rape and/or abuse
I think it’s the abuser thing and more the rapist thing. Because his people can’t say no.
Most folks don’t have experience with cannibals or serial killers. But rapists are all too common.
Never seen a serial killer watch a show tbh
difference is, you dont see any of the 3 things they do on the news once per week
Val: Abuses and manipulates Angel; is hated
Vox: Abuses and horrifically tortures Angel before taking away all of his cognitive thought, abuses and sexually assaults Alastor, tells multiple people to commit suicide; is a fan favorite.
I don’t get it either
I will always blame it on how well written Val actually is. Because there are at least 4-5 characters worse than him morally, being the 3 in the meme + Adam and Lute
I like his fits, bro stylin
Its basically like Endeavor and LoV from MHA. LoV are all basically domestic terrorists but people love them and want them to be redeemed and have a happy ending
Meanwhile Endeavor was a horribly abusive father that is now trying to atone for what he did knowing he most likely never can fully, but everyone wants him to burn in the deepest pits of hell
People relate more to abuse victims than serial killer victims
There is absolutely no requirement that your favorite character be a good person. They just have to be interesting, and all of these characters are extremely interesting. There's nothing wrong with liking any of them as characters.
People when vox basically mind raped Angel, and Velvette makes rape date drugs
Not only ABUSER but ALSO rapist AND pimp
He's probably a diddler, too
it is not implied whatsoever that Valentino is a child predator??
the Vees also canonically have an age requirement of 21+, in terms of who can work for them
I hope none of these people get Jury duty. Lmfao They really like implicating shit that isn’t there.
"Theres a kink for that" - valentino
I believe this
I'm pretty sure Al is a psychopath not a sociopath
Enjoying a villain is not the same as liking them or their actions. Val is a good villain specifically because he is so intimidating and sinister but also kind of a dumb pathetic loser.
Handsome jack has the same trope. He is such a smug sinister dick but also kind of a pathetic dipshit as soon as he isnt in a position of power
People like them because they're funny, cool, or hot
Val isn't either, and he got slapped with the rapist tag, so people don't like him
Now, what's debatable is whether or not raping someone is worse than maiming them/eating them alive
What's NOT debatable is whether or not you should treat the fucking PSYCHOPATHS like they're someone you should even be within sightline of
They aren't good people, and for some reason people keep forgetting that, these are the most deranged, garbage, insane people imaginable and if they existed today they'd make international news and be considered the absolute bottom of the barrel people. And there are STILL people defending them. Acting like it's fine because they're standing next to a rapist
Don't forget Adam, who's just Hitler as a fratboy
to be fair he literally doesnt know the difference between good and bad
Pretty sure it’s a key plot point that he does, no??
no, afaik in the hellaverse canon Eve was the only one that ate the apple
That’s still an absolutely wild read.
If only Eve ate the apple, then Adam would never have been expelled from the garden. He’d already lose one wife to Sin and things were still fine.
Nah Adam is nazi highest ranking military officer. Sera is Hitler, she ordered genocide.
I don’t think those are comparable, Hitler killed millions of people for simply being in the wrong ethnic group. Hell is filled with people who range from random assholes to war criminals. Like, hell rewards the most evil people and encourages exploitation as much as possible. The other difference is that Sera actually felt bad after it was proven that sinners can be redeemed and tried to reconcile with hell (Even if she went about it the wrong way)
You think that if Hitler would at some point be like "I'm sorry, I was wrong" and sing a song about how sorry he is people would fogive him?
He just like Sera believed that targeted population is bad (needless to say he was wrong)
My point is that Hitler targeted ethnic groups while the extermination target objective bad people. The extermination’s didn’t discriminate towards specific groups of people. The only reason overlords didn’t die through them is because they had enough power and influence to have contingencies for them
actually exterminations targeted only people, as Lute inform us in first episode hellborns had pardon from exterminations, with for hell is pretty much racial separation
Bro, are you intentionally missing my point? Sinners are in HELL, a place where people go after they die because of their bad deeds. They are objectively bad people. Thats the entire fucking point of the fucking show. Proving if sinners (people punished for their misdeeds) can be redeem. This isn’t a race thing, it’s a debate of rehabilitation and capital punishment
In this case it's a mess really if Adam and Lute are in Heaven and Sir Pentious was in hell, specially that nobody in heaven knows what gets people into heaven, so they don't know how bad person have to be to be in hell either.
Val just hits too close to home for me to find him a totally fun and endearing villain like the others.
Pls tell me you used genocidal due to a lack of better vocabulary known to you. What he did was bad and all but definitely not fucking genocidal.
I said "almost". Half Pentagram City?
As a victim I really do get annoyed when people idolize Alastor and vox when they are significantly worse then Valentino. I get it hits closer to home for some people, but you literally gotta think, I would rather be raped a thousand times then be murdered and eaten. I would rather kill a murderer then a rapist, because will the rapist probably do that again? Yes. But is he going to literally kill a thousand more people if I let him wall? No. He isn't.
Wait Vox abuses, angel as well
Okay, TV-Head freak is just mean
Nah, it's just the fandom (unfortunately) treating Val like shit
I feel like abuser doesn’t properly encapsulate Val’s crimes. Also, this implies that the other three aren’t abusers.
Still, your sentiment isn’t wrong.
While I don't wholly disagree, he is also a rapist, a manipulator, and a predator. While all of them are horrid people(because duh. That's why they're in hell), I would put him as worse than the rest.
As someone who has been falsely accused, anyone who could do such things is vile and disgusting. It truly shows how well the character is written and the VA absolutely nailing it that Val inspires so much hate
Ill be honest and i may get some hate and i welcome it everyone has opinions but i would rather be friends with someone who kills or eats people than someome would would abuse their partner/children and or workers
Some things are worse than death...
People have already explained how sexual assault is far more common, making it hit close to home for a lot of people. I'd also like to mention that, unlike vox and alastor whose victims are mostly unnamed background characters, and whose abusive behavior isn't focused on all that much, val's defining character trait for a casual audience is that he's angel's rapist.
It's the very first thing you learn about him, unlike the other villainous characters who are introduced with their actual personality traits, making you interested and attached to them before revealing what they actually did to land in hell, and what bad things they do. Most of val's screentime in season 1 especially is spent abusing angel dust. Meanwhile, alastor and rosie are both introduced as slightly sinister and ill intentioned allies, and vox is first defined by his rivalry with alastor and the fact that he reigns val in, and they each only get a handful of scenes (if more than one) actually showing them doing bad things without anything else to distract you from that.
It's a funny case.
We see abusers all our life. So of course we're going to be sour about it.
Yet for those of more threatening dispositions, yeah that's a diamond in the rough.
And if you know your medical lingo, Cannibalism isn't as cracked up as you think it is (a medical condition known as Pica, where you consume non-food things, like hair, paper or flesh, depending on the type of Pica)
Why do you think people make jokes about hitler but not some famous sexual abuser (i cant think of any names atm)
I agree with your sentiment
but counterpoint:
Diddy
Pedophiles seem to be the exception
Someone said it best:The ONLY reasons Val gets as much backlash is because he's personally hurting a main cast member.
They could literally have removed this plot line and made it a background thing against someone else and suddenly he's just a quirky funny overlord.Its only when the audience is angry does someone with a significantly less K/D then Vaggie suddenly get treated as the worst.
I find it wild how people act like Alastor is an okay person. The difference between him and Adam is that Adam waited for judgment before execution. Alastor also declared himself judge.
It's the fact that a lot of murder and other crimes are shown a lot in Media and we've been desensitized to it, we don't all have a Vox or Alastor IRL, but there are plenty more real people like Valentino
Some people genuinely think a rapist is the worst thing you can be. That you can de redeemed for anything but that. Or whatever they think is unforgivable. They all have their reasons for it, but that's kinda it at the end of the day.
https://preview.redd.it/12oceielkz7g1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c4dec6dd52a8fb607106849a53843e1894281a21
Vox is much more than an Almost Genocidal Freak, He's Mecha Hitler
https://preview.redd.it/vf5ivbo38y7g1.png?width=1080&format=png&auto=webp&s=be0904e2ad3153d15a4b004b8f5871dbfa42bd73
My boy ain't Hitler, he doesn't hate Jews.
https://preview.redd.it/3b0dlo7lny7g1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d1da162e4d47773a89728234c1cc2116d3f6f73a
Eeeeg, waspy guy from the 50s?
You can say it's because they end the suffering immediately, while val just keeps them alive to repeatedly continue the suffering for their entire life. In some ways it's more messed up.
I am just saying,for alastor's souls to have their scream be broadcasted,they have to be alive AND suffering to scream to begin with
You know, I do keep forgetting sinners don't stay dead usually, lol. Al's victims souls probably are alive and trapped in that radio box. 😂
Do you think it's like java Minecraft when you put too many mobs in a small space?
Alastor explicitly says he tortures them "ripping apart their souls" to Husk.
“Abuser” is downplaying it. He’s a rapist, which is the most evil thing a human being can be.
I sorta agree, but I think you're forgetting people like hitler exist.
Almost genocidal?
Oh Rosie is better than everyone. Yes, she is a cannibal. But she has morals.
People are more likely to have been abused then they are to have been affected by a murderer, a cannibal or the victim of genocide (maybe one that last one, I think the statistics on that one might be skewed for some people.)
This is true and is just a reflection of how society condems sexual abusers (totally deserved) but is apologetic to other violent crimes cuz we live in a world where violence is a way to achieve things rather than the crime it is.
At least they have class. 😆
I think its also becuase, everyone else knows they suck. Val doesn't think he's doing anything wrong and that. makes him seem worse then them.
It’s weird how violent crimes are forgiven with ease but sex related crimes are irredeemable
If we were supposed to hate Alastor and Rosie, we would. Adam got one scene and was immediately at the top of everyone's shitlist. Same with Valentino.
They had to do more with Vox but that's because he's too damn charismatic.
They are because he’s probably also killed a lot of people
They are JK
I don’t even wanna know what Niffty’s history is
((That’s a lie))
Only one I like is Rosie and that’s because she’s entertaining
Morality is relative when you're in hell
Erm it's hell they are all bad people that's the point of the redemption Charlie wants to give people.
https://preview.redd.it/w0j5hgxm028g1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ff78476066be57d4436fe1e1fba4b209ba5b8d3c
Even so, I don’t like Val because of his weird personality, let alone his actions
Vincent was also a death cult leader... Don't take it from him
Valentino, that is the least fancy thing I have ever heard.
???
https://preview.redd.it/olpbukyve38g1.jpeg?width=554&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63618f69200e283c52d096a1bd19d9d0751b71a0
There are worse things to do than cannibalism
The character design is just better in 3 of them the only thing notable about the moth man is he’s a perverted rapist sex addicted moth.
"We're evil, but we're not monsters."
I hate Val because he hits close to home.
He is also one of the funniest characters to me, though, having a few of my favorite lines.
And I love the way he acts with my favorite villain so far, Velette.
So he's fucking conflicting.
Rapist you misspelled it
Oh I thought this was ranking crimes
It's strange, but SA affects me MUCH more than any murder. (I don't know anyone who's experienced this, and neither have I, but I hate this subject.)
Val can go burn, but I love Alastor and Vox
I never understood why this fandom acted so cruel against Val fans but loved Alastor and Vox. Just bc we love Angel Dust i guess.
Vox literally knows about and assists with said abuse
I stand by rape being a much higher crime than killing. There can at least sometimes be justifiable reasons behind killing. Never is there a reason under any circumstance for somebody to be raped. Not one.
ROME
Saying a genocidal maniac is better than an abuser is wild bro
sexual abuser, dont sugarcoat him like that
Alastors big claim to fame was torturing the souls of overlords and broadcasting their screams over the radio
I still don’t think that compares to what val has done
Cause you have clearly never been tortured
Which is what val has clearly done
They are, to everyone's knowledge, they haven't raped anyone
Vox supports both Velvette’s rape potions and finds Val’s abuse and rape funny
Alastor is quite literally torturing all the overlords he defeated in a never ending cycle of agony
But they don't do rape themselves
The difference with Alastor and Rosie is that they're honest about their hobbies.
Its incredible to me how some mfers can't wrap their head around why Val is more hated.
Only one of those is widespread enough for most people to have interacted with someone who's been a victim of it. I've never known anyone who was a victim of cannibalism, murder, or genocide. I have none five to six people that were victims of various SA.
On top of that, only one of those has widespread defenders downplaying the severity of those crimes. People downplay or ignore a lot of SA that goes on, or deny that certain things are SA.
Vox, Alastor, and Rosie are more cartoon villains, while Val's brand of evil is something much more mundane. You might never meet a charismatic genocidal leader, or a sociopathic serial killer, or an old timey cannibal. But I 100% guarantee you know or will know an abuser at some point.
They literally are
Normal people dislike rape and rapists. Hope this helped you out, OP.
Don't forget that's he's not just an abuser but a rapist and sexual predator.
Well, Lust is pretty much being looked down upon. Frooooom the presentative... to this mother fucker.
Nah, everyone loves Ozzy because Ozzy is about healthy relationships and communication
Yeah, but it's implying that Lust as sin is kinda look down upon compare to others. I didn't say Ozzy was bad and such, hell he's practicing Chastity his counterparts.
What?
They're all horrible but Valentino is definitely very well dressed and I find him attractive
All of the Vees are abusers, Val is just the most hated because, reasonably so and agreeably so, sexual abuse is considered the worst kind of abuse.
Look there's evil evil, and disgusting evil. Actually I suppose cannibalism is gross, but still. Lol
And, out of all of them, cannibalism is the one that’s actually legal under the right conditions
It is?
Yeah, if you’re in a situation where basically the person is already dead and if you don’t eat them you’ll die of hunger yourself, it’s legal, it’s so survivors of plane crashes and stuff don’t go to jail for just surviving
Oh yeah, just like in that movie, Alive
Yes, I don’t think it’s the case in every county, but I do believe it is in most though
Thwre was a case iirc where a guy and his friends ate one of the other friends to stay alive and he didnt go to jail because he didnt commit a murder
Yeah, I believe as long as you’re not the thing that kills them, eating them after that is legal
If the murder is out of necessity, I believe you'll at least get a reduced sentence. It's why "drawing straws" amongst sailors never ended with the survivors being executed, they commited the murder out of necessity AND they did so with everyone agreeing to it (As far as we know of).
“It’s a tale they won’t believe…”