During training, they get all sorts of scrapes and scratches. They’re also told sinners can’t hurt them. Due to this, she never thinks about it because another Angel hurt her. Until her interaction with Carmilla, she’s probably still under the assumption she can’t be hurt by the sinners at all.
I mean, considering Alastor was capable of dodging Valentino’s bullets point blank while in a smoke screen and in a weakened state. I really doubt Vaggie would even manage to land a hit on him.
And has we have seen with Carmilla, Vaggie fighting style consist of charge, impale, repeat. So she kinda is predictable.
My best guess is just that the script for that scene wasn't very well written, otherwise someone on the writing team would've pointed out how stupid it made her look
I’m pretty sure Viv confirmed that they were trying to imply in the first season that Vaggi and every other angel thought that it was the power behind angels that allowed them to purge sinners, not the weapons themselves. I could be wrong though. And I’ve got nothing for her trying to stab a super weapon.
I mean, it's Vaggi. One thing she's never displayed any particular aptitude for is tech. And when in that situation, her first answer is "hit it until it stops working"
And smashing a nuke with a hammer is a solid plan if you specifically want to avoid a nuclear detonation. A lot of precisely engineered bit go into making the chain reaction go off just right.
I mean, it'll almost certainly still explode and you'll definitely die, but you'll have turned it into a much more localized dirty bomb that performs way below its theoretical yield.
Like Vaggie saying “I didn’t know it was possible for sinners to hurt angels” instead of “I didn’t even know that was possible” in season one when Charlie is mad at her for not telling her after her deal.
While I would have appreciated more information about the topic in the show, the main issue seems to be people being incredibly literal about that one line (the didn't know angels could be hurt one). Everybody says things that can't be literally exactly true all the time. I expect the context made it stand out weirdly or something since so many people reacted like that, but that's still no excuse to become Sheldon Cooper.
In Vaggi's defense, she did go to Carmilla first to get her help in stopping the weapon. She tried the sensible approach and it failed because Carmilla refused. So... if the sensible approach is a no go... smash? Smash.
Guys trust me the characters from the pilot are definitely different and Charlie wasn't as kind in it (Just ignore the entire musical number from Charlie about how nice she is)
People take so many things too seriously, its supposed to be funny that shes stabbing it that's a gag that's old as shit.
Also shes trying to find a spot to tear open and cant no to mention shes panicking.
As for the angelic weapons, most likely they were never told hell heaven seemed shocked that hell could even fight back and I dont think even heaven knows what's going on that's the whole thing with sera and her council they're literally wandering what the fuck is happening.
If you want an explanation that makes sense, she's a former exorcist. All of her hell related problems back then could be solved by hit stuff really hard. Makes sense she's not very creative.
Her assumption was probably that Angels had the inherent ability to permanently harm and kill other spiritual/magical/angelic whatever creatures, and not that it was their weapons, especially given how Adam’s beam wasn’t a weapon it seemingly just came from him, and he’s likely used it before
To be fair, she didn't know her spear could kill her. Literally up until Carmilla told her, as far as Vaggi (and everyone else) knew, angels can't die. Full stop, don't bother trying. Vaggi learns Carmilla killed one so went and asked. The fact that Vaggi had the tool the whole time doesn't make her dumb. Because of the deal, Charlie was never in danger before so Vaggi had no reason to tussle with the other angels.
Second with the cannon, she cut wires, asked the architect of the weapon and tried prying bits off, none of it worked so she reported to just try and smash it.
Lastly, she was literally raised as a soldier. Brains, are not exactly something the "military" fosters for their frontline troops (hence the joke that Marines eat crayons) so her not exactly being genius doesn't shock me at all.
I doubt that's official considering the obvious "best friend" thing when that's obviously not the case if you watch the pilot. Also Viv confirmed 5 months before the pilot came out that was a lie.
Yeah that's true, I just mean that it's a breath of fresh air to see her like this. There have been too many stereotypes of lesbians hating men in general because of fiction
I dunno where people get the impression that Vaggie was intended to be a sinner in the pilot. Viv has confirmed that while Vaggie being a sinner was intended at the very beginning of development, the Angel twist was planned a while before the pilot was being written.
Vaggie’s big design change (hairstyle, colour scheme etc) as it popped up in Vivzie’s old YT videos might not be a perfect marker for all I know, but generally feels to me like the point where there was a reexamination of her design based on her not being a sinner anymore
I dunno where people get the impression that Vaggie was intended to be a sinner in the pilot. Viv has confirmed that while Vaggie being a sinner was intended at the very beginning of development, the Angel twist was planned a while before the pilot was being written.
I know this isn’t the intention of the post but still
Wild that you would assume that Vaggie was always supposed to be a sinner in the pilot era. Like y'all act you know about Viv's story more than she does.
Incorrect, vaggie is just dumb in general. She was dumb in season 2, she was dumb in season 1, and she was dumb in the pilot. She's dumb and that's why we love her.
That's actually the biggest plot hole in S1 IMO. Vaggie, Lute, and Adam are all shocked that angelic weaponry can harm exorcists. 🤦♂️ the real surprise should be that sinners have a store of angelic weaponry.
Certainly not a deal breaker for the show, but strains suspension of disbelief a bit.
To be fair, why would you test your weapons on yourself?
It was said that they just leave them in hell after using them. (This was shown in the pilot at the beginning with carmilla's daughter's picking up the spears.)
Here’s my best guess
During training, they get all sorts of scrapes and scratches. They’re also told sinners can’t hurt them. Due to this, she never thinks about it because another Angel hurt her. Until her interaction with Carmilla, she’s probably still under the assumption she can’t be hurt by the sinners at all.
Could make sense why she had such are big mouth as she meet alastor for the first time in her mind she would auto win
Tbf, when she met Alastor they didn't have access to angelic weapons so she would have won unless Alastor took her spear or something
Well, Alastor wouldn't be able to kill her, but he definitely could overpower her
I mean, considering Alastor was capable of dodging Valentino’s bullets point blank while in a smoke screen and in a weakened state. I really doubt Vaggie would even manage to land a hit on him.
And has we have seen with Carmilla, Vaggie fighting style consist of charge, impale, repeat. So she kinda is predictable.
Propably the reason
My best guess is just that the script for that scene wasn't very well written, otherwise someone on the writing team would've pointed out how stupid it made her look
I’m pretty sure Viv confirmed that they were trying to imply in the first season that Vaggi and every other angel thought that it was the power behind angels that allowed them to purge sinners, not the weapons themselves. I could be wrong though. And I’ve got nothing for her trying to stab a super weapon.
https://preview.redd.it/g3sb817arv7g1.jpeg?width=900&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=525200d63cea11ab647dd367b320cba22fb9a98d
I mean, it's Vaggi. One thing she's never displayed any particular aptitude for is tech. And when in that situation, her first answer is "hit it until it stops working"
Exactly if you put me infront of a nuke about to blow up with only a spear I'm gonna jit that think in hopes of stopping it.
And smashing a nuke with a hammer is a solid plan if you specifically want to avoid a nuclear detonation. A lot of precisely engineered bit go into making the chain reaction go off just right.
I mean, it'll almost certainly still explode and you'll definitely die, but you'll have turned it into a much more localized dirty bomb that performs way below its theoretical yield.
Additionally she may have thought she was considered fallen and operated on different rules now, not like heaven knows what the fuck is going on.
They should've communicated that better in the show.
Like Vaggie saying “I didn’t know it was possible for sinners to hurt angels” instead of “I didn’t even know that was possible” in season one when Charlie is mad at her for not telling her after her deal.
Or just have Vaggi be cast out by magical means instead of being stabbed and abandoned.
While I would have appreciated more information about the topic in the show, the main issue seems to be people being incredibly literal about that one line (the didn't know angels could be hurt one). Everybody says things that can't be literally exactly true all the time. I expect the context made it stand out weirdly or something since so many people reacted like that, but that's still no excuse to become Sheldon Cooper.
Not just Viv it was literally talked about during the scene where Viv tries to ask Carmilla for help.
Well trying to stab it was not that stupid as it might work
I mean there were wires right above it which would be easier to stab than metal.
It's simple: vaggie is just dumb. She was dumb in season 2, she was dumb in season 1, and she was dumb in the pilot.
I wouldn’t know how to dismantle a giant cannon made of angelic metal either, tbf
to be fair I dont think Id poke it with a stick
When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.
Its a basic instinct when holding a stick to poke things with it
at least try in a useful way. Like she found lucifer yet she still did the exact same thing after that
She could have at least tried to get between the metal plates
In Vaggi's defense, she did go to Carmilla first to get her help in stopping the weapon. She tried the sensible approach and it failed because Carmilla refused. So... if the sensible approach is a no go... smash? Smash.
Vaggi believed only an angels power through the weapon could kill a sinner, but didn’t know it was the weapon itself that did the killing.
This was because of her exorcist training and all of Adam’s propaganda
Name 3 personality traits of Pilot Vaggi that aren't "tells Charlie not to sing" and "over protective"
Guys trust me the characters from the pilot are definitely different and Charlie wasn't as kind in it (Just ignore the entire musical number from Charlie about how nice she is)
And Alastor was better despite him being in about 5 minutes of actual pilot and very obviously faking being that animated even back then
I always thought she didnt know because she thought the 'angel' part was important, not the 'angelic weapon' part
People take so many things too seriously, its supposed to be funny that shes stabbing it that's a gag that's old as shit. Also shes trying to find a spot to tear open and cant no to mention shes panicking.
As for the angelic weapons, most likely they were never told hell heaven seemed shocked that hell could even fight back and I dont think even heaven knows what's going on that's the whole thing with sera and her council they're literally wandering what the fuck is happening.
If you want an explanation that makes sense, she's a former exorcist. All of her hell related problems back then could be solved by hit stuff really hard. Makes sense she's not very creative.
Her assumption was probably that Angels had the inherent ability to permanently harm and kill other spiritual/magical/angelic whatever creatures, and not that it was their weapons, especially given how Adam’s beam wasn’t a weapon it seemingly just came from him, and he’s likely used it before
Yea I thought that was pretty obvious, she knew angels could hurt other angels, she probably just assumed that sinners couldn't harm angels at all.
ROME
https://preview.redd.it/x2tdd44wuv7g1.png?width=830&format=png&auto=webp&s=a2ac7ce6e9760173a9ad826d3d609cfa58aee7df
https://preview.redd.it/51kdzz96sz7g1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f52e9bf590f23d05facff6e97f8bf31511d0c475
https://preview.redd.it/d9l7r3zx9w7g1.jpeg?width=619&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b1c7d38fee3505602b1ab609a176ab65591dbfae
And Pilot Vaggie is any better how???
Yeah, she's dumb as well.
She has Xs on her breast ig idk
Niffty: "Where are your tits? Did they go the same place as your eye?"
To be fair, she didn't know her spear could kill her. Literally up until Carmilla told her, as far as Vaggi (and everyone else) knew, angels can't die. Full stop, don't bother trying. Vaggi learns Carmilla killed one so went and asked. The fact that Vaggi had the tool the whole time doesn't make her dumb. Because of the deal, Charlie was never in danger before so Vaggi had no reason to tussle with the other angels.
Second with the cannon, she cut wires, asked the architect of the weapon and tried prying bits off, none of it worked so she reported to just try and smash it.
Lastly, she was literally raised as a soldier. Brains, are not exactly something the "military" fosters for their frontline troops (hence the joke that Marines eat crayons) so her not exactly being genius doesn't shock me at all.
Honestly I prefer Vaggi as a dummy instead of a lesbian that hates men
https://preview.redd.it/ijiq72y7lv7g1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e8abc2bd6eaf9ead35722986b8eb6e07707b6d27
To be fair, she was a sinner back then and probably had a legitimate reason related to her life on Earth for why she hates men.
Huh? Wasnt she born/created as an Angel from the start?
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It's stupid because.....? Why is it stupid? It makes more sense and is more interesting then just another sinner.
Oh yeah. I was meaning for the show version. Sorry idk I got confused lol. But yeah the change is odd. Oh well.
Didn't viv say she changed that before writing the pilot?
No, she changed it after the Pilot.
Did she say that or are you assuming that?
She literally fucking said that, and her "bowtie" was literally functioning like horns.
https://preview.redd.it/3sm9kap6818g1.png?width=1200&format=png&auto=webp&s=6fe44539cbbb5ac786efff309b8d76ec4ab1e67b
Like Ion even know what to tell you, it's literally confirmed she was only edited AFTER the pilot by a long time
I doubt that's official considering the obvious "best friend" thing when that's obviously not the case if you watch the pilot. Also Viv confirmed 5 months before the pilot came out that was a lie.
https://web.archive.org/web/20211005070107/https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1143765699623555073
Vivziepop herself in the pilot era made posts talking about them being friends without actually mentioning the fact they were a couple.
I swear to god with basic wording. No, she said "I feel like."
Anyways, even the wiki confirms the fact she was a sinner by the time of the pilot.
Yeah that's true, I just mean that it's a breath of fresh air to see her like this. There have been too many stereotypes of lesbians hating men in general because of fiction
Agreed.
Do. Not. Insult. My. Pookie. Bear.
https://preview.redd.it/585w5km93w7g1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b431f9948c605f3125658a9b65dcea011afbd3cb
I dunno where people get the impression that Vaggie was intended to be a sinner in the pilot. Viv has confirmed that while Vaggie being a sinner was intended at the very beginning of development, the Angel twist was planned a while before the pilot was being written.
Vaggie’s big design change (hairstyle, colour scheme etc) as it popped up in Vivzie’s old YT videos might not be a perfect marker for all I know, but generally feels to me like the point where there was a reexamination of her design based on her not being a sinner anymore
Because the pilot didn't outright say "she was always meant to be a angel" and people can't handle that.
How do you know Vaggie's a sinner in the pilot?
Isn’t that poking and prodding how she found Lucifer
Still my favorite regardless
Her song has “we don’t need nobody to else” says the single handed least helpful or important character in the show
As much as I love the show there are alot of questionable narrative decisions. ;w;
Is it really questionable if that's just who the character is?
I dunno where people get the impression that Vaggie was intended to be a sinner in the pilot. Viv has confirmed that while Vaggie being a sinner was intended at the very beginning of development, the Angel twist was planned a while before the pilot was being written.
I know this isn’t the intention of the post but still
Well, she was made by Adam after all
Wild that you would assume that Vaggie was always supposed to be a sinner in the pilot era. Like y'all act you know about Viv's story more than she does.
Incorrect, vaggie is just dumb in general. She was dumb in season 2, she was dumb in season 1, and she was dumb in the pilot. She's dumb and that's why we love her.
she pisses me off so much
.....for being Charlie's dummy?
for being performed in an unengaging way
EDIT: subjectively speaking. If you like her, good for you, but I'm allowed to feel this way
.....except people are engaged with her performance. Maybe you don't, but it doesn't really apply to others.
that was my fault for phrasing it in an objective way, I did not intend to
No problem.
That's actually the biggest plot hole in S1 IMO. Vaggie, Lute, and Adam are all shocked that angelic weaponry can harm exorcists. 🤦♂️ the real surprise should be that sinners have a store of angelic weaponry.
Certainly not a deal breaker for the show, but strains suspension of disbelief a bit.
To the first point, Lute herself used them on Vaggie in front of Adam. To the second, I never picked up on that fact.
Lute is an angel, I imagine Vaggi thought only angels because she also rips off her wings with her hands, not the spear.