After coming to Berlin (and other big cities in Germany), one of the strongest impressions I’ve had is just how incredibly difficult it is to find a place to live.
It’s not even mainly about how expensive the rent is anymore. The bigger issue seems to be that whenever a room or apartment is posted, hundreds of people apply for a single listing. This feels completely normalized now, which is honestly shocking.
I’m genuinely curious whether German locals feel the same sense of frustration and unfairness about this situation, or if this is something that feels especially difficult as a foreigner.
Sometimes I wonder if I’m just experiencing this more strongly because I’m not German — or if the housing situation is simply getting worse for everyone.
From the outside, it really feels like the real estate situation in Germany keeps deteriorating. At this point, renting long-term seems increasingly unstable, and I even catch myself thinking that buying property might be the only way to have some security — which feels ironic, given how renting used to be the norm here.
I’d be interested to hear how locals see this.
That's the case but obviously for foreigners it is even worse. If a landlord receives 100 application, one can be extremely picky and any reasonable risk strategy will prefer natives on average. However this problem is mainly concentrated in (large) cities where everyone wants to live. Renting in the rural part of east Germany is easy.
Until you notice how much money you will need to invest.
But do you think with how things are going renting while relying on a state pension alone will be even possible?
The social security system in Germany is in tatters if you ask me and unless you have some assets and/or investments, the future will be very gloomy. Which by the way is the breeding ground for the far right.
Germany in my opinion is too slow to adapt to the new reality and I am somehow pessimistic about the future here.
Taxes and social contributions are eating even bigger part of your income and the middle class is constantly squeezed, hence the plummeting birth rates.
It’s interesting reading this as it’s almost a word for word description of how people feel about the UK. Tricky time for Western Europe.
And the USA. It’s going to become a greater issue as immigration stops making up for a declining birth rate.
Until people start actually making changes and eradicating exploitative systems that screw over the middle class. Like thousands of empty flats in every major city in Western Europe and America purchased by a small group of people to blow up property values.
How do you think the proposed increases in defense spending will affect this?
100%
I briefly looked into buying as I could have sold some property to maybe afford something…then factored in government-mandated “modernisation” and that idea swiftly went out the window.
What government mandated modernization are you referring to? We’ve owned our house for years and nobody made us do anything
For houses that change ownership: insulating upgrades, heat pump upgrades, roof upgrades (apparently dependent on whether you need to do any work on it in the first place) and so on. From what I looked up many of these are recent regulations (2023 or so). A colleague of mine was looking into a house and pointed them out, but they also show up on immoscout.
Edit: Gebäudeenergiegesetz; applies to older buildings changing ownership
I quickly read that and, as far as I can tell, it just mandates what kind of upgrades you need to do when you do them, like you can’t upgrade your gas heating with another gas heating, but you’d have to have a heat pump or something that runs on renewables. But you are under no obligation to replace a working gas heating. Same seems to apply when redoing the façade for example. If you renovate more than 10% of it, you’d have to add insulation also
These regulations are extremely misunderstood and used as propaganda against the previous government. What is truly required for upgrades when buying a new house is minimal and in addition, it’s not being enforced. I am wondering if there is a single instance where someone had to pay a fine for not doing it. I believe you have to insulate the roof or the ceiling between the last floor and the attic as an alternative, which is much cheaper than doing the roof itself. You also have to insulate the pipes in any room that isn’t being heated, which would typically be just the basement.
Energy efficiency has to go up to E by 2030 and up to D by 2033.
How that is achievable depends on the property ofcourse.
The things with the heat pumps is, if you need a new heater, you have to buy a heat pump.
If you buy a property with an oil heater from 2010 or so and the heater will still work properly until 2040, no one will force you to buy a heat pump as far as i know. Only heaters older then 30 years have to be exchanged during 2 years
I don't live in a large city (~100k people) and its by no means "where everyone wants to live", but everyone I know took about a year to find a place to move to. The reason is that there're very few new apartments being rented out - there're maybe 4-5 new flats in the entire area (including the suburbs and adjacent towns) that get posted on Immowelt/Immobilienscout per week. A lot of those flats have unrealistically high rents and poor conditions. I personally gave up on trying to find a an apartment for me and my boyfriend to move in to together. We searched since July and stopped now after being very close to renting a good flat, but being denied because one elderly couple wanted it and they are a more suitable option for the landlord, since they're likely to stay in the flat for decades to come. I just can't justify spending time on searching and going to apartment viewings anymore, because there's always going to be an elderly couple that's interested and we'll always lose to then in comparison.
Either your definition of elderly is different than mine or you have a very generous sense of life expectancy.
>Until you notice how much money you will need to invest.
this is very much dependent on the place and the price. Once one factors in the building equity/insulation against future rent increases and instability, buying with a mortgage can be a very good option.
I had an Apartment prime location in Munich and when my tenant moved out after 15 years (2015) I came to Munich (I live in USA since 1995) to rent it out myself. General experience for Germans has been very negative and I ended up renting out first to a French guy and then to and Indian couple (both professionals). The rent I ask for was on the lower side for Munich, so I got almost 1000 emails within 24 hours. Invited 10 people for a viewing and the one thing that really irked me was all the demands made by the German people (this needs to be done, that needs to be done etc.) despite clearly stating in the ad that the place will be rented as is and outlining the little flaws (e.g. two small scratches on the Walnut Floor in the living room). In addition most people didn’t have their paper work with them (bank account slips, employment contract etc.). All the non Germans had all their stuff with them, where super friendly and after moving in, zero issues until I sold the place.
One of the few problems that can be absolutely adressed with some money. Support construction (change zoning, lower standards, financial support) and build with public money, it doesn't even have to be public housing with rent control, even fancy apartments take off pressure as people move up and free their more modest housing. One of the failures of the Ampel and preceding governments, I assume lack of priority/urgency plus obstruction by FDP/liberals. Doubtful that current government will do much better.
Welcome to 2026!
Hell yeah.
“renting long-term seems increasingly unstable”
I don’t know what you mean by “unstable” here, exactly, but if anything Germany has the opposite problem. Anyone with an existing rental contract very, very much wants to keep it - and this means that there is very little mobility among renters. If anything, homeowners are actually more mobile as they can at least “sell up” at market rate.
Once the kids have moved out, noone will be freeing up the four o five bedroom apartment, because the next rental contract would be more expensive. So, anoth t big apartment is blocked by two elderly people. The market is broken.
I moved this year to a large apartment 120..130 m2 in a good location in perfect condition. What happened to the previous tenants? It was an old couple and both passed away. In the last years, the apartment was only inhabited by one person. So yeah, that’s how it goes.
It is a rational choice though, and maybe the only viable option. If they have been there for decades, what they pay can be a fraction of a new rental of a much smaller, less well-located place at current market prices would be. And then the cost of moving, the hassles of downsizing, learning a new neighborhood, the risks of if there turns out to be problematic neighbors.
My apartment is considerably bigger than I need or wanted, but it is really nice, well-built, great location, I'd been looking for quite a while and it would have been foolish to pass on it.
Strong renter protections are good so that people don't get gouged or turfed out so that landlords can continually maximize profits. But you are right that the distortions in the other direction make big problems as well for anyone not longtime established.
You should also have mentioned that strict rent control is the reason why there is no incentive to move in this situation.
And entitled pricks that move out but refuse to let their contract go and subrent forever. I’m in this situation: flatmate and contract owner moved out but refuses to add anyone else as main tenant
I have friends that have places in prime locations in Munich and haven’t lived there for over 10 years. They moved in 30 years (at the time a social apartment) and their rents is crazy low. One of them rents out the place via AirBnB for the 30 days the city allows it. He makes enough money in the two weeks of Octoberfest to cover the rent for the entire year. The other guy (one floor below) lives in Switzerland and says it is cheaper to keep the place (spents 3-5 days a month in Munich) than to go I a hotel. I don’t blame either guy for doing this, because from a financial (and security) perspective it makes sense.
Well, the housing crisis along with inflation and stagnating salaries are the major issues for most Germans for years or even decades. So yes, I'd say anyone else feels the same.
Not decades, no. Finding a good apartment in 2011 was really quite easy. That was the last time I moved. From everything I hear and read about it, it has got to be a lot more difficult now. Like, an order of magnitude more difficult
Last time I moved was in 2013 and at that time I predicted: next time I have to move it will be away from Berlin unfortunately (it was getting insane already back then).
The market was stagnant from the mid 90’s until 2012 and then the catchup started with the rest of the world. I bought a place in 1996 in Munich and was looking at selling the place in 2011. Adjusted for inflation I would have lost a lot of money and decided not to sell. When I sold in 2021 the YoY increase on the value of the place was, adjusted for inflation, 1.6%.
Not only Germany. That’s the case of all westerns developed countries.
Does anyone else feel that currently every situation in every part of the world is just broken basically?
Yes. Even here in Australia it’s pretty messed up
We played through capitalism hehe... This is near end game now. Only getting worse as money flows from poor to rich, while wealth gap increases.
Exactly. Somehow I hear how housing is everywhere expensive and renting too. There are exceptions but the whole situation does look „wrong“ to me. Wrong like there is a situation like 2008 at some point. How is it possible that everywhere housing is so crazy?
Rent and housing aren’t expensive everywhere.
You can rent an apartment in some desolate East German town or a run down town in west Virginia quite easily. It’s „only“ expensive to rent where the Jobs and economic centers are.
Urbanization is enhancing all the problems that already plague the housing market. If you compare cost of rent to the cost of buying an apartment in major cities, then rent is actually still „too cheap“/ financially speaking it’s not worth it to buy.
Thus it isn’t a rent bubble and not at all comparable to 2008
Mainly because of incentives.
Housing is tied to three things : interest rates, building costs and infrastructure availability.
It’s notoriously unrisky to own in a big EU city so when interest rates go down, house prices go up so that returns reflect the lack of risk properly. The opposite happens when interest rates go up. Since major EU cities are basically 0 risk, this phenomenon applies even further.
Many cities have effectively made it illegal and extremely expensive to build. Take Berlin or Munich, if you build you have to respect a maximum height, you aren’t allowed to destroy an old small building, you are only allowed to build in a very restricted set of land (typically in which nobody wants to live) while land that could theoretically be used for farming or for parks is saved. You also need to rent a bunch of the flats you build for social housing. And depending on the area the property appearance is restricted too. Add onto it stuff like energy efficiency and accessibility for handicapped people. Of course even if you plan to respect all of the above you still need a license first. Naturally all of the above reasonable expectations completely balloons building costs. Many not as expensive cities across the world do not have such restrictions but EU major cities typically have all of the above and more.
Finally it would be fine if there was an expanding better infrastructure to make it feasible to live further away from the city center while having reasonable transportation times, but that requires expanding the public transport infrastructure. Right now none of the major cities in west EU countries have projects worthy of their wealth and status. They typically have one project which is always delayed and the first to be starved for funding.
This lack of infrastructure reduces land availability since land outside a certain range is useless.
I would argue that we are at the inverse of 2008.
The banking system does not want a repeat of 2008. Its solution is to maintain a supply shortage in the housing market.
Not really. Finding affordable housing in Japan is extremely easy especially in cities like Tokyo and Kyoto. You won’t get a huge apartment but there’s enough supply of rooms and studios for entry level workers compared to European capitals where a huge percentage of youth are forced to live at home or use 70% of their salary on rent
Although it can be very difficult to find landlords willing to rent to foreigners.
Exactly, straight up racism. Hard to believe unless you’ve experienced it yourself. Basically advertised as “2LDK appartement, close to station, pets OK, foreigner NOT OK” it’s WILD.
Yeah, you just walk into an agency, tell them what you’re looking for, and they’ll organize multiple viewings within an hour and take you to all of them the same day. If you like one of the apartment you sign a contract the same day. Simple and easy.
I feel that one of the reasons the German housing market is utterly inefficient is because potential tenants typically deal with the landlords directly without an intermediary. So everyone applies to like hundred listings, and landlords receive hundreds of applications, which makes things difficult and stressful for everyone.
Fee for agents, "Makler" is limited to 2 month cold rents plus VAT. For this lie honorary they focus on costly rental apartments.
After the Japan real estate collapse, housing was no longer an investable asset (in the sense that no one puts money into real estate expecting it to go up.) That makes it easier to build housing.
Plus Japan has inclusionary zoning. You can build housing anywhere, including in industrial zones. Easy to sneak in a small flat somewhere and big cities are full of little flats tucked in random spaces.
Was it always like that, or does this have something to do with declining population size?
It’s some kind of social depression going on, triggered by media focussing on bad news only. Of course there are really many bad news, but the situation is not much worse than in former times.
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Your post was removed because it either covered in our wiki/faq, doesn't provide relevant information for a discussion/advice, or is generally a low effort post.
Instead of opening a new post, use the sticks post to ask simple questions.
Yes and it’s a complicated problem given the most obvious solution is not an option that is to solve it in the supply side.
Absolutely! Americans are trying to find somewhere where they can live comfortably on their given salaries or retirement and finding out the hard way that everyone is experiencing the same thing all over.
Just a case of world wide greed of the wealthy, and how is affecting the masses of what is turning everyone to the real truths of modern day slavery.
Stay focused on the belief that “slavery” and being a slave equals being a black African victim of the transatlantic slave trade, while the wealthy rob us ALL with a wage and taxation system that keeps us enslaved.
Stay focused and distracted on the fight against foreigner as the enemy so that hand of the wealthy is unnoticed as they extract hard earn wages from your pockets.
The brilliance in its execution lends itself to the implausible and absurdity of its very existence.
But he we are. Look around. The battles we fight to survive are focused on the wrong enemies by design.
Oh yeah it is, i go to work to Munich commuting 1,45hrs but live 110km away to live cheap cause to get an apartment in Munich is impossible these days.
Germany is relatively speaking better off than most of the EU imo.
It’s hard to find a flat but the same problem exists in Paris Lisboa Barcelona or Milan.
The thing is in those cities rent is the same or higher than in Berlin but salaries are significantly lower.
Amsterdam has even higher rents than the list above and it’s even harder to find a flat but at least the salaries and tax breaks compensate
If you want easy to find cheap housing you gotta go to eastern EU
Eastern EU has same problems. Rent in larger cities where everyone wants to live also skyrocketed in last 5 years.
Not extreme as Berlin or Amsterdam but definetly not easy.
If you do not want to live in overpriced shithole, be prepared to look for few months.
I am from Lithuania and there the mindset is for buying property, not renting, so it is relatively easy to find a place to rent, because people who are renting are usually young people, students who rent until they are done with uni & afterwards buy a flst instead. So 1-2 room apartments are most popular. My parents own a flat in the 3rd biggest city, which is also port city. It is a nice 3 room furnished apartment (people would never rent an unfurnished flat btw), they ask less than 400 euros for it and they always struggle to find renters, because people often down want to rent "such a big" flat
I would say its even worse in eastern europe, someone mentioned zagreb. You have a median salary of 1500 euros while decent apartment which is relatively close to the center goes for 700-800 euros.
In western europe you atleast have high salary so chunk after paying rent is still left for things to spend other than bare necessities.
Or live outside the main cities. Much easier to find somewhere to live in smaller cities and towns
Average salary in Paris is actually higher than in Berlin. Gross salary is a bit lower, but net salary is higher due to the fact that statutory health insurance in France is not paid through the gross salary (it’s paid by the employer as an overhead cost). Taxes in Germany are also higher than in France if you’re on Steuerklasse 1 or 4.
Overall, you will have much more money in France than in Germany with the same gross salary.
That’s a way of accounting that isn’t quite fair : There are 4 levels : Cost of employment Gross salary Net Salary Net after tax
I think it makes sense to compare cost of employment across countries or net after tax across countries but what’s in between is mostly accounting logic magic.
France’s difference between cost of employment and gross salary is huge, while in Germany the difference is tiny. Still at the end of the day to a company hiring, cost of employment is what’s matter. It doesn’t matter to them what’s called employer or employee contribution.
On both metrics (cost of employment and net after tax) salaries are higher in Germany.
I was specifically referring to net after taxes, which is the only thing that really matters when you’re an employee. Net after taxes in Paris is on average higher than in Berlin, which is due to average gross salaries being very similar in both cities (around 55k). Cost of living is still a bit higher in Paris, though, so overall I would say purchasing power ends up being very similar.
A key difference between both cities however is that the job market in Paris is significantly stronger than in Berlin.
Ah you re right specifically for Paris and Berlin, the average salary is a little bit higher in Paris based on data, as someone who moved from Paris to Berlin I always thought the opposite is true (in tech it definitely is) but I was wrong.
I am a German local, 30km outside of munich. My Kids and I spent 4 years looking for something acceptable and affordable. And I Interpret affordable very loosely. We now pay a little over 2k. The experience is frustrating in the extreme.
That's insane!
I think the problem is, that foreigners think Berlin is only Friedrichshain-Kreuzberg, Prenzlauer Berg and Mitte. If you are ok with living in Marzahn, Treptow or other neighborhoods, you will find something faster. Besides this, I also believe that many people simply did not accept that prices will raise. If your budget is 1.000 Euro you will find easily a 1 bedroom apartment or studio within some weeks.
This!
Berlin is huge, If you take the whole city in account finding something to rent or buy is way easier and cheaper than in Munich for example.
This has been a thing the past few years. So yes. It's fucked.
It has been one of THE big political issues that has been constantly discussed for at least a decade.
The issue basically boils down to the fact that Germany has seen a lot of immigration in the last few years (population is at an all-time high), people use more apartment space per person (population has become older, and older people are more likely to live in a large apartment or house, e.g. after kids have moved out) and more people want to move into the large cities. At the same time, construction of new apartments has been too slow (high construction costs, a lot of bureaucracy around building permits; and local population who already lives there or owns property is often not interested in increasing apartment density).
Old people blocking houses is often not ignorance or decadence, but a matter of money. The sale of "grandma's little house" rarely buys a decent appartment with accessibility.
Add AirBnB and Ferienwohnungen to the equation, then even more housing units are missing from the market.
If I recall homes are actually quite cheap in the east. Villages are dying out in some areas so property is actually quite affordable.
https://www.engelvoelkers.com/de/en/exposes/c02e88da-c128-5586-98e3-e53dd3bf166c
But you then need to contend with living in the AfD heartland...
Edit: didnt realize that house was still west germany. That's not bad actually.
Now here's east Germany
https://www.engelvoelkers.com/de/en/exposes/9f9398df-a89e-5cb5-805a-57f909256cd0
Not everywhere cheap is "AfD heartland". Just get a half-hour or more away from most large cities and prices drop. I live in the countryside, my house was very affordable, and most people in my area do not support the AfD.
I feel the problems described by OP really only relate to the situation in the bigger cities of Germany.
Where exactly did I state this. I linked a property in west germany lol.
I said exactly this and got downvoted to hell for it.
I would agree. I think some smaller cities are perfectly within reach. Regensburg and Landshut have some places which are quite cheap to rent and I am considering leaving Munich in the next year.
I am not a poor college student
I don't live in Berlin
I don't search for small apartments
I found a new apartment after contacting less than five listings, and visiting only one, both three years ago and last month, in two different big cities
So, is it as you described in some cities, for some people, looking for some kind of apartment? Yes.
Is it that way "in Germany", for everyone, all kinds of apartments? No.
I won't judge the validity of your claim about Berlin, but if I look at an isochrone map in 30 min commuting distance by public transport from the Humboldt university, you could look for apartments in Kaulsdorf, Blankenburg, Zehlendorf, and anywhere in-between.
...when it works flawlessly which is usually not the case.
But there's no chance you can get there in 30 min from any location you've listed even if you live on an S-Bahn station directly. "Anywhere in between" makes everyone feel like a poor college student here.
Situation is fine in most parts of Germany. Only a selection of cities is problematic. Maybe ppl should take the hint 🙄 It won't work out if everybody wants to move to Berlin when there is a housing crisis already over there ...
I would imagine that people would consider "non-problematic" cities if they existed. Lack of job opportunities in smaller cities and an unexplainable growing tendency to mandate the office presence for positions that are fine for being remote-first are also major contributors to the housing problem.
Why isochore map?
*isochrone
This is a problem in every big city in the world
Surprised pikachu face
Whenever you go into one of these topics, even if they don't put it into the title, you just know its either about Berlin or Munich. Like, geez, read up on the places you're moving to.
I live in Darmstadt, and honestly I feel the same even outside Berlin/Munich the situation feels strained now.
It’s not just about rent levels anymore, but the competition. Whenever something decent comes up, there are dozens (sometimes hundreds) of applications almost immediately.
From what I see locally, Germans with long-standing contracts or local networks are a bit more shielded, but newer renters especially foreigners feel the pressure much more.
It really does seem like a broader structural issue that’s been getting worse over the last few years, not just a big-city or expat problem.
My impression is that the real market works under the word of mouth principle. Most apartments never reach the open market (e.g. ImmoScout). When someone leaves, they are just posted on Instagram (or Whatsapp) and friends of friends apply and get it (i.e. Nachmieter).
This is my experience too. You've got the best chance of getting a flat if you know the landlord, or if the landlord is a friend of a friend. Otherwise it's a lottery.
The current housing crisis is a byproduct of an abrupt demographic surge rather than steady, organic growth. When a population expands by millions in a condensed timeframe, it creates an immediate supply-demand imbalance that the construction sector cannot realistically bridge. Unlike natural growth, which allows for incremental infrastructure planning, this sudden influx has forced the housing market into a severe deficit, leaving cities struggling to accommodate more residents. Never-mind the fact that there was a housing shortage already prior to the influx.
When has this happened? Population growth over the last decade or so has been pretty much negligible. Increasing the population by 1% over 10 years (less when you go back even further) does not cause hundreds of people to show up for every listed room. This idea that there are suddenly millions of immigrants with nowhere to put them is made up.
Look at city growth versus regional growth and you’ll have your answer.
Well dont go for Berlin i guess
It depends on where you want to live and what you are willing to compromise on. Living in a rural area gives you much cheaper options than looking for something central in a big city.
I’ll say this: I understand how it feels and a few cities are worse off than others. Berlin, Munich, Hamburg etc. are just so popular that finding a place does just suck.
BUT I fear that’s not a Germany issue. In fact Germany (especially once you leave the few hype cities) is wow decent in terms of rent. The %afe of your average income going to housing is noticeably smaller than in many other countries (even inside the EU and don’t get me started on US cities…).
You DO have an Additional barrier if you’re a non German speaker as many of the non predatory apartments (again especially in the hype cities) are run by private landlords who prefer German speakers.
If you want some advice from experience leave the city centers, avoid anything close to university campuses and instead look at the neighborhoods a few s-Bahn stations out. Distance wise they feel quite far from the center but time wise they are not be really. And are often much more affordable.
And last but not least if you’re starting to learn German show that you’re trying. Even if your German is not great and you can only do a few basic sentences it’s not actually about the German but the landlords fear that you will be difficult to communicate with and handle. If you show you‘re trying you also show you will put effort into communication with them if needed.
Hope that helps
50% of most western populations support open borders. The same people cannot afford houses and see no connection. Thats your problem. Supply and demand.
Actually rent itself is not an issue. But cost of moving is insane...
For example I am planning to move to Munich. And there are plenty of offers at around 1500€, which is very reasanoble to me. But then...
Kaution is usually three months of rent: 4500€
I need some moving time, so I have to pay rent fro my old apartment and my new apartment for one month to move: 1500€
3a. I lived in the furnished apartment, so I have to buy all furniture from scratch. For basic needs I will buy just a bed for the first month, but with a good mattress: 1000€
3b. If I would have some furniture, I would order a moving company, which will be same 1000€ or even more
Fucked up thing in Germany: most flats rented out without kitchen. I was in IKEA yesterday to check out. Reasanoble kitchen will be 4000€ with electronic devises.
Rental contracts, which require 3-6 months notice before moving out and my work, which want me to start ASAP. So I will loose minimum another 1500€ just because I obligated to pay by a contract.
In the end it will be minimum 12 000 € just to MOVE! And in the end after buying all furniture it will be 15 000 or more. It is INSANE. It is a CAR. I have these money, but most people dont.
Yes, I will get kaution from my prev. apartment, but I have to have some buffer money, because I will get them back not instantly.
https://www.zdf.de/play/shows/die-anstalt-104/die-anstalt-vom-11-november-2025-100
Come to eastern Germany and you won't have a problem to find a place to live. Dresden, Rostock, Halle or Erfurt all are mayor cities where you can find a flat at reasonable price
But you will have a much lower chance of finding a good paying stable job there.. There is a reason for the different housing situation
Better than being homeless.
In Germany there is a big geographic difference regarding housing (rent, availability etc). In many parts of Germany, the housing situation is very relaxed. For example in the majority of east Germany it is very relaxed (except for the biggest cities there of Berlin, Potsdam, Dresden etc). They even have to close Kindergarten in Thüringen due to decline of population, housing is also very cheap there. Also in areas in the west (Ruhr Valley in NRW etc), housing is very cheap.
Many people project the situation in „overrun“ cities / area like Berlin, Hamburg, Munich etc. on whole of Germany, but it is not true.
https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/thueringen/ost-thueringen/altenburg/kita-schliessung-demografischer-wandel-100.html
Yes it is broken in big cities. Bust most people are not looking for housing at the moment and the vast majority of people are actually not paying the rent prices that the market current demands. Probably 70-80% of renters in Berlin e.g. pay 10 euro or less per square meter simply due to how long they lived in the flat already.
Not in Germany, only in the big popular cities. I got a flat in one day in Nürnberg for example.
You don't feel this way, it's a proven fact. Being a foreigner amplifies it even more. Housing is completely trashed in Germany.
It’s not just a Germany thing, it’s a global thing id say. Everyone wants to move to the bigger cities for studies or jobs or both, which is understandable since usually the better opportunities are there. On top of that landlords can be super picky in those areas. For my studies I decided to pick a university in a smaller town and rent or even finding an apartment took as little as a week. When needing to be near a major city it may be better to live outside of the city as you may have more options. I could say this is the case with Frankfurt and Stuttgart at least
It also depends on where you’re from. Friend of mine who works in the Field has the golden rule of never renting to indians/somalis (for quite obvious reasons)
Well, that has been one of our biggest problems across the whole country for about a decade now. So everyone knows about it and has had to suffer from it.
Yeah, the housing situation is fucked up. Buying isn't going to save you because that's fucked up as well and neither the German government, the landlords, the developers and strangely enough, the people, want it changed.
It is not the only thing in Germany which is broken / deteriorating. Public transportarion, medical insurance, pension insurance, infrastructure getting worse every year while taxes and social contributions getting higher and higher... It is frustrating
Yes, everybody
But it's definitely way worse if you don't have a German sounding name
Every city is turning into Munich...
European problem
One of the reasons why I left germany and I'm german
The housing situation is very unpleasant and yes there is a lot of critism attached to it.
However, if I would be the devils advocate, I'd say there is quite a significant group of people that benefit from it. People that do own houses ensure that these do not lose money, but are in fact an attractive investment. Prices limit the inflow of people into big cities (beneficial for preexisting residants) and provide an attractivity boost to smaller villages.
As for you experience with the rent level being okay, but it is still hard to get a flat: This is very much due the text book example of the effects of the plan-economy intervention measure "price cap". In a free market "rents" would simply rise until a sufficent number of people would be unable to afford then (thus dropping out of demand) and a sufficent number of people would be incentivised to rent out, so suppy and demand match. In a caped-price market (like in Berlin), the incentive to rent out will stay low, but the demand will stay high. Who gets to rent will then have to be decided by other - non financial - factors, like ability to speak the landlords language, vitamin B or the willingness to subject to side clauses etc.
Huh, I wonder what's causing that
Yes but I dont think it is only a Germany problem.
I know a German double incoming couple without children, that tried to find a flat in Berlin for 1,5 years that is about 30-40% of their net income. They applied for about 1200 flats that matched their criteria until they have been lucky.
I’m curious, How much was their net income?
5k. They wanted to move in together and both hat smaller apartments of around 60m². But instead of 2x60m² they were aiming for one apartment of about 100m². But all they've found would have been much more expensive than the two previous apartments combined.
I moved here from the UK in 1997, met my Partner soon after. We discussed buying property, saved as much as we could (we're both nurses) and brought a 3 room appartement in 2002. The first 10 years were hard but we payed off our mortgage 3 years ago. Now we only pay utilities and "hausgeld", have been able to reduce our working hours and have a nice nest egg for the future. Our appartement has tripled in price. We live in Frankfurt. It was the best decision we ever made.
I can't imagine having to rent or look for somewhere to live. The prices now to rent or buy are outrageous.
There's housing issues all over the world, Spain even worse. Portugal too. the Netherlands too. American cities too.
The two biggest problems in Germany are housing and healthcare
It is not only housing market in all its dimensions (new, resale, rental) is broken, I would say almost all markets in Germany are broken. By broken, I mean lack of liquidity, rules that highly favor existing players leading to stagnation.
The fractures are very visible in job market, where people stay in existing jobs because there are not enough good paying jobs (forget high-paying - except American companies), capital markets (challenging to open/close companies, bankruptcy proceedings go on for years), banking, freelance market (try finding plumber, electrician, contractor for small works), research, civil construction (both public and private projects drag on for years), and possibly more (restaurants, transportation).
The only example of well-functioning market is perhaps auto-market where is it relatively easy and quick to buy/sell or lease cars. Maybe the grocery markets is also well-functioning or maybe it is because EU as a whole has significant agricultural produce and Euro is reasonably powerful currency.
I would say the friction in politics, media and medical markets is perhaps good (availability is low but quality is very high). I would not prefer American style media, medical or political establishments. Although there are significant downsides of friction in politics but I am not sure it functions well anywhere.
It is as if the economy ministry, whose fundamental job is market and incentive design, is sleeping or has a mandate to design perverse markets.
The issues are deeply structural and suicidal for any politician that I sometimes wonder how it will get fixed. Look at Deutschland Ticket as an example to introduce liquidity and remove friction - they just can’t seem to control the cost and I am not sure if we can say if Mr. Volker Wissing, was rewarded for his bold attempt.
My guess is it is lack of skills at institutional level (there are enough talented individuals but they do not get opportunity) that is cause of this despondent state. I have a hunch that excessive reliance on management consultants for executive decision making is a key enabler. It avoids responsibility. Also there is cultural aspect - German society is not kind on failure.
I agree with you completely, except I don't think the Deutschland Ticket was ever going to work in the way you hoped, by design.
It's a form of middle-class welfare which incentivised well-paid professionals to use the already overburdened public transport system instead of making their own way, at their own (or employer's expense).
Public transport subsidies, and any government subsidies, always work best when targeted to the people who actually need it, rather than people like myself who can easily pay their own way.
Yep, that's it. German society does not like change and punishes innovation. Fundamentally, most people don't want the broken pension/health system etc to change, and that is why it stays that way.
Everything here is built around protecting the status quo of the silents, boomers, and older Gen X who benefit from that inertia.
I mean, the pension system is a hilarious example. As I am self-employed, I don't have to pay into the state pension (thankfully). So what has the state designed instead? The Rurup. A system so terrible for its ROI that it is financial idiocy to use it.
To give a concrete example: Let's say I put in 10,000 euros per year into a rurup for the next 25 years. What would I get when I started to draw down? On current estimates 1100 Euros payment per month, no right to the capital, disappears when I die.
What is my estimated health insurance cost at that date? 1300 Euros per month.
So, what is the more rational option? Put 10k into something that wont even cover my health insurance costs? Or fritter away every single cent of that 250,000 until I retire, and go on grundsicherung and have the state pay for it all anyway?
Obviously, I will look after myself through private investments. But it is just hard to fathom how a state as rich as Germany's, with as many skilled economists on the payroll, could enact a system that is so inept at encouraging retirement saving.
No. This is fine. Definitely not missing 700k+ units at all. Move along. Nothing to see here.
Hannover + Region is quite unpopular and therefore easier to find a place. Also Wohngesellschaften makes it much easier. I slipped into Spar+Bau Verein here through a shared apartment about 10 years ago and found an apartment within 2 months for that reason back in 2020.
However if you are looking to live in Berlin, Munich or Hamburg my answer to that is good fucking luck Jesus Christ even to locals. Those cities are crazy expensive and super hard to find apartments in that you can afford.
Yes it is in any major city. I wouldn’t have been able to find a flat if I hadn’t got really lucky with my connections.
And even as the main renter in a 2-person apartment I have to sort between 50 people every 24 hours I’m searching for a flatmate. It’s impossible to be fair and unbiased in a situation like that, and I feel sorry for foreigners.
No, it's not the same for locals, they have their 200 EUR contracts for a 90 m2 from after the wall fell. Or some of them bought whole buildings in Prenzlberg for 10K Dojčmarks 🙃
Not so long ago. Just 15 years ago you could buy an apartment in Berlin preferred areas for max 1800 Euro/sqm. After 10 years the profit is tax free, so 120% and more profit, and the new owner claims fake Eigenbedarf, furnish it in minimalistic IKEA style and let it for 30 Euro/sqm. The system is broken.
My gf bought an apartment in Prenzlberg 6 years ago. With the inflation, and the interest rates, she'll be lucky to get the same amount out if/when she sells in 4+ years. Even 10 or 20.
too late, had been bought in 2010
Yes, even houses out there in the sticks but still close enough to Frankfurt and shitty Internet are being sold for 500 +
To me, it sounds like a market with a lot of demand. I'm not sure whether that means it's broken for every side of the market. It seems like the supplier side might be raking in lot of hay. There will be other times.
Housing is a problem, and the job market is also in a turmoil.
The problem are those idiots who vote for parties which propose easy solutions such as "Mietpreisbremse". Then it is not about supply and demand anymore...
Making housing about supply and demand is not a great idea, because it is a necessary thing to have just to exist. My demand is constant throughout my life so supply shouldn't depend on how much money I make.
Big cities around the world have this issue, literally in every country. Even rents in my family's mid sized Mexican city are unattainable for most people who live there.
Why?
We're living through two major changes.
The biggest rural flight since the industrial revolution. People flock to the cities, rural life is not interesting anymore.
A globalization of real estate markets leads to potentially endless demand for global cities. You cannot build against that. Every European city above 400k people has this problem, and every city you know by name on the planet does, too.
It's not a German problem or a European one. It's a new trend of urbanization which we haven't seen before.
well, if there are millions of people suddenly migrating to germany how is the housing market supposed to keep up
This is what happens in a capitalist market with lose regulations and politics and authorities that rather care for themselves, rather than for the broad public and the nation.
Money flows from poor to rich while wealth gap increases.
The person's who could change it (Politiker, Beamte) are not affected by it, as their Besoldung / Pension is an entirely different system to the common Lohn / Rente. You don't care about 2000 Euro rent, if your Sold and Pension will cover it till you die. Hence the interest to change it is basically non existent (except maybe from left wing).
In case we're not there yet, we're certainly developing into a modern two class society: Poor and Rich
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Yes, locals feel the same thing
It is really worst tbh ! Way back when Airbnb was not a thing 7-8 years ago it’s already pretty hard for us to finally be accepted and get a contract.And Ohh it took us almost half a year searching a flat in Cologne and a total visits of 20+ apartments. How much more now , some apartments becoming Airbnb , or sometimes Wohnungswap/Wohnungstausch 😩🙈.Housing in Germany is really a big problem atleast 1 million + were homeless in the entire DE. I know someone who’s still looking a flat but got no luck .
Housing market is completely broken, but people somehow learned to live with it. I guess this and healthcare can be #1 & #2 most popular rants on the sub
It’s same in every big city. In Frankfurt am Main, 50sqm is for 1000-1100 warm for rent plus electricity and internet. And for now it’s impossible to buy a house with single earner.
yes
We know it and we only take measures to make it even worse (like raising standards f. e).
Well, the easiest apartments to get are the one that (almost) no one wants. Like the ones that are far away from the ring, that are a bit old, etc. I am looking for an apartment right now and obviously looking far away from the ring.
Yes it is crazy out there. My wife and I (both EU citiziens) recently bought an apartment for that same reason. So your idea is not crazy.
Honestly, the biggest problem for me is AirBnB. I find crazy that a lot of other EU countries are taking measures against short-term rentals (Spain, Netherlands... and actually even some American cities) and here in Germany nothing happens. The short-rental market is as busy as always.
Renting became a scam
Yes, but also not limited to Germany.
It depends. I've heard that high-priced mansions are quite available these days. So you are just looking at the wrong items :)
Munich a 3zimmer, 100m2, good building is True but 3.2 warm, I ask myself if even for germans this price is affordable
Moving away from Munich might mean changing federal states…
It's mostly in a few big cities. I went to university in one of those, and everybody was complaining how expensive it was. Myself I lived in a smaller, less attractive town 50 km away and commuted in. Everybody was always making fun of me for living in a shitty town and not being able to take part in university night life as much as the locals, but when they heard what I paid in rent they shut up fast.
Not saying that everything is shiny, but some people just create their own problems.
The way expatriates search for a flat is the hopeless one and it drives prices up. I also stood in line with 150 persons.
The best way to find a flat is to be a member of a Genossenschaft and then ask them. Most of their flats are usually not openly shown.
Well, when we were looking for an apartment 10 years ago my Boyfriend who is german had to call to make appointments and do the speaking. As soon as they heard me and my accent it was a lost game. Mind you, we already had like 40-50 people applying with us back then. It doesn't suprise me at all it didn't change at all
I'm an EU citizen and have been in Berlin for the past 15 years and my impression is that the situation has become mad because of the IT industry (which I myself am a part of). The apartment standards are compared to my home country extremely low here, heating breaks down all the time, the outside wall of my current apartment is literally crumbling to pieces and so on. Since the rents were also low I kind of accepted it but that's not the case anymore. If anything landlords give less fucks than before because of the extreme demand.
Anyway, the issue in Berlin is that the past decade or so the government made changes to attract foreign skilled workers to fill the need of tech companies, but as soon as these workers cross the border the government stops caring, i.e. where these workers are supposed to live is left to themselves or rather "the market" which is dominated by a few huge property owners (e.g. Heimstaden) or predatory small time hustlers.
I have several colleagues from outside the EU that are desperate for somewhere to live and also has a visa status conmected to their employment contract, and is thus extremely vulnerable to exploitation by both their employers and landlords. This drives salaries down and rents up for everyone. The winners are the landlords and the tech companies aka capitalists. Shouldn't surprise any German that this is happening based on the government they voted for.
welcome to Germany.
Love, I've been living in 6 countries and I can tell you, it's the same everywhere. Literally everywhere.
I lived in Oz, the city I lived in had a housing capacity of 0.6% when I left. Same in NZ. I am now back in Europe and UK/Ireland is the same, even worse.
The issue arose during covid when everyone bought properties to make an Airbnb. Where I live now, me and my neighbour are the only ones in that street of 11 houses that are permanent renters. Everything else is Airbnb.
The rents are absolutely shocking. I am currently at €1600 (no bills) per month for 1.5 bedroom (country side). It's ridiculous.
It depends, in medium sized cities it's not bad yet
Like which cities? Maybe I move there
Generally cities in Western Germany, search states like Rheinland Pfalz, Saarland, Hessen (not Frankfurt).
I see a lot of new buildings being built now but when I ask, i hear mostly that they are sozialWohnungen (WBS). , tbh this issue makes me think to move back to my home country. Also the problem with finding a doctor
Water is wet
Berlin is ground zero of this epidemic..
My last apartment hunt 7 years ago, was so traumatic that I’m never going to move out of my tiny town apartment. But that’s also why I’m still living with my ex, because he can’t even find a 1 room apartment. I don’t even know what I would do if we didn’t get along, or if he was abusive or whatever. Surely we can’t be the only once “forced” to live together because of the housing situation.
I don't think it's even a matter of perception. The housing market is measurably broken. You can see it in statistics such us how much behind population growth rate is the new housing unit growth rate, the mismatch of housing size to housing needs, and the gap between planned and achieved construction per year.
its better than very high density / demand places like paris, london or netherlands, and better ( from a local pov ) in terms of disparity between wage and cost of life than all the gentrified cities of south europe.
situation's shit, but could be shittier. doesn't mean it shouldnt be improved, just that its showing cracks in comparision to other really broken areas.
Totally. I'm increasingly nervous now, as I plan to move next year. I've been in a studio apartment I love but I need more space now that I work from home and have my dog. I am not sure about moving to the sticks but that may be the only option. The housing situation combined with the horrible horrible service of the DB in the region where I live make me very anxious, honestly. I'm just thankful I'll be searching from a comfortable place, no deadlines and not pressure. I can't imagine having to find something because there's no alternative.
It’s the same in London/UK
I think it’s a lot about location. I am looking for a Nachmieter here in Berlin for an apartment in a new building with very good transport facilities at a reasonable price (within Mietspiegel) and after 2 weeks merely 6 people reached out and so far nobody took it. And my theory is that because it’s outside the ring (though still within 15-20 minutes by SBahn to both Sued- and Ostkreuz) and most people want to live in the “cool” areas with bars and restaurants.
Vitamin B helps, also not being a broke college student with a tiny budget helps.
Never had issues getting a flat in big citys.
Of course it is. Just take a look at who gets preferred treatment for finding a place to live.
You need to ask if anyone does not think housing situation is not broken.
I always got the first apartment I liked. And I was always the only person there. Sounds like you're only wanting to rent the most liked apartments in all of Germany lol
Was in the same situation. Dozens of people in the queue, and you are the least preferred 'candidate '.
Look for a place where the actual renting lad is looking for a 'Nachmieter'. You may need to take over his shit for and probably also his renovation duties.
Was like this already 35 years ago. And was thought as normal then.
normalized normalizing
Hey just a question
If you are a person with power to make a lot of housing and you already are the one controlling majority of the housing in market market
Will you spend more money to make more housing or do you Looby with your power to keep the market at always at higher rates
Which do you think the person or company will do ?
Reading the comments, I wonder how the housing situation is on small, middle sized cities that never gets mentioned : like in the states, that never being mentioned like lower saxony when talked about Germany ? Cities like Osnabrück? Hannover? Celle? Braunschweig? Oldenburg? Cloppenburg? Rheine?
Has been for a while, unless you go to the middle of nowhere...
Well, like nearly every country with big cities? Did you ever tried to find something in London, Milan, Paris, Miami, Singapore,..?
It’s the most annoying thing ever. Even for native German (I know it’s worse for foreigners). My income isn’t insanely good. I’m at 55k and looking for a 1 bedroom. People applying alongside me are couples with 100k+ together. It’s so tiring. If I get a showing it’s at 11 am on a Tuesday and I can’t keep calling out of work for that 💀. If you end up getting to the next round they expect you to pay an ablöse of 5k+. I hate it all so incredibly much.
I used to live in the US and it’s so much easier with apartments being professionally managed.
Yes it happens because of the demand for housing nowadays
So how would you suggest to fix this?
Yes and no. Ive been here 4 years now and I understand that it's gotten worse. But there's a few things.
Germany is a very big country. I live in NRW and people complain about the rent increasing. However there's loads of good towns with good transport links that are cheaper. You might not find somewhere in the perfect location, but you can get somewhere.
As far as I'm aware, places like Munich and Berlin are pretty bad, but most other places aren't as bad.
I moved here from Ireland. It's really, really bad there. Prices are multiple what they are in Germany and even if you can afford something, it can take years to find somewhere. There's loads of families living in hotels because the government can find anywhere to put them. The government had to start putting Ukrainian refugees in tents. And it's affecting the whole country. Prices are a bit better outside of Dublin, but the scarcity is bad everywhere. Rents have been increasing by about 10% a year for 10-15 years.
So to my original statement. Yes, Germany is having problems. And these problems need to be solved. But I don't think it's completly broken. Especially not at a national level.
I stopped reading at "Berlin"
I always found this strange/scary. I’ve been living here for 13 years and it still shocks me that the hosing situation is just as you describe. And that’s not including the scams and dodgy landlords. One potential landlady even asked me to get a signed letter from my employer saying that Brexit wouldn’t affect my ability to stay in Germany! She got it but rejected me anyway.
Yess it’s a landlord’s market, they hold all the power and the laws are not precautionary, they basically only function after you’re screwed. And the sad part is, the politicians don’t address the issues because they don’t care enough to inform themselves about the issues.
we are cooked with the rental situation in germany. the situation is worse for everyone but when you don´t look german or you do not have a german name it is quite more diffcult to find a flat
Yes man it's crazy. Im moving out soon from my flat and ive posted my flat in Immoscout. In 1-2 days ive received over 400 applications... And its not even a good area here in Berlin
Let's see what the Bauturbo will bring
I‘m a 28year Sri Lankan German (my parents are Sri Lankan), despite me making more than €100k I struggled find an Apartment in Berlin and it’s not about the money or my German skills (would say I can speak better German than most „bio Germans“)
I’m actually actively applying to jobs in Switzerland and Middle East. I think more people will do that as well. (My only issue is that my career is rather niche and there aren’t many job openings)
It depends of the region you want to live. I live next to a middle sized town and got a 120qm flat for less than 900€ warm. Inside that town it's maybe a little bit more expensive but also easy to find an apartment.