He was getting very annoyed when I insisted it was lol. His excuse was "then why do I die at different parts".

Obviously it's not purely muscle memory but I would say that's a massive factor which is why people have to play hard levels over and over again to gradually get past it.

I think it destroys his pride for skill he has for the game.

What do you guys think?

  • It absolutely is muscle memory. Ofc its also the visual and audio stimuli but its mostly muscle memory which is why sleep buffs are so important

    Unrelated but good luck with Zodiac lol, those deaths seem like they hurt. All the best!

    I went on holiday for 3 weeks and havent had the motivation to play gd since. Kingdom come deliverance is a peak game tho

    What are sleep buffs?

    when people get obsessed with GD and change their sleep schedule to sleep at day and play all night

    How is that a buff 😭 when I play at night I'm usually worse

    That is not at all what it is. It's the phenomenon of being significantly better at a level after sleeping, because of how muscle memory works in our brains

    Audio stimuli? I’ve played for well over 1k hours and haven’t played with music since I started playing extremes. Cant stand listening to the same song over and over

    Youre definetely an exception

    Pretty sure Npesta listens to other music while playing extremes too.

    Yeah it ain't a necessity, but it can help. For example, when I was beating Windy Landscape for my first Insane Demon, in the last little ship part before the duals at the very end, I was concerned about the yellow orb timing because it seemed like RNG if I would pass it or not when I was learning the level. Then I realized that I could hold on the orb and let go on a specific beat of the song and pass it pretty much every attempt.

    Audio cues do play a part, especially in sync-heavy levels and even more in the learning process. After that you can just let muscle memory take the wheel instead of your ears, but for me listening to just silence or some other music while I play GD sounds psychotic.

    mostly same, playing without music helps me focus and hear my click pattern. i play with bluetooth headphones so not like i can rely on sync anyway lol. although i've been playing rust and so far it's an exception tho i still have my volume low

  • yea is mostly a muscle memory game, traditionally in extreme demons you just learn and learn the level until you beat it, imo the only true raw skill is having the enough reflexes to do something (because for example, someone with easy demon skillset will not learn bloodbath as fast as someone with extreme demon skillset)

  • There is genuinely no way someone actually thinks gd is not a muscle memory game, this guy must be ragebaiting you

  • Biggest indicator of a skill issue. If I don't play a level for weeks and then I'm still consistent it's obviously muscle memory

  • I mean the easier levels (like non demon) can sometimes just be sightread in one attempt so if he’s new to the game and trying to sightread all of the levels he plays without practicing them then I would understand why he would think that

  • Imagine showing him LIMBO & he still says it’s not a muscle memory game ☠️

  • I've seen people argue that this game is mostly muscle memory but it depends on the person. Usually that stems from whether you are able to sightread well

    If you are beating an extreme demon the only sightreading is when you have to learn the level but then it becomes muscle memory. Sightreading is only the main thing in easy levels

    i have 80 extremes and i disagree

    Actually that's fair. You still have to react to what happens even after learning the level because you aren't going to time your clicks the exact same every time, but saying gd doesn't have muscle memory is still completely wrong

    yeah obviously muscle memory is real a part of it but it’s far from the only thing you need to be hard levels imo

  • What’s his hardest?

    Mushroom I think it was called

  • It’s not purely muscle memory, but it plays a big part. Like if I was to decide to beat Wasureta, then I’d need a hell of a ton of muscle memory to remember and grind out the specific click pattern required for me to pass stuff.

    But if i take a skill based level, something like red world rebirth or Bloodbath, then it’s more about your personal skill and adapting to different outcomes rather than just remembering a pattern. Sure, it helps, but it’s very unlikely you’ll do the perfect straightfly 2 times in a row perfectly equal. Thats where raw skill comes into play. And I think in the end it’s a 50/50 balance between skill and muscle memory.

  • at the top level it is basically only muscle memory, like 80% or so.

  • It is more and more muscle memory the harder levels you play

  • Muscle memory is a skill that people get better at, tell that to your friend

  • people saying it's not a muscle memory game just because it's not literally just muscle memory and nothing else

    with that logic couldn't they say osu isn't a rhythm game since you have to see the circles rather than just play with your ears

  • It changes with each level as you go up the list, but overall I'd say it's something like:

    60% muscle memory

    15% physics and game knowledge

    10% mentality

    10% physical ability and comfort

    5% luck

    Funnily enough, the harder the level, more and more important the luck factor goes into play, since top levels nowadays exceed human consistency. Take Doggie with Grief, for example.

  • i mean in my opinion it is a fully muscle memory game thats just the way i choose to play it. i transcribe click patterns into rhythmic dictation, set my metronome to the beat of the song, and then grab my drum practice pad and drill the click patterns until its embedded in my head. then when im confident i have it memorized i just play the level and i can usually clear the section/level within the hour

  • Do they think cod isn’t a shooter?

  • The whole point of gd, especially as you move into harder demons, is that you can acquire the muscle memory as quickly and precisely as possible. It’s not unskilled to have muscle memory…

  • there was a time i didnt play clubstep for five years then went back to it and did it first attempt yeah no that was just my muscle memory from trauma kicking in lmao

  • i think he’s simply not that deep into the game yet lol

  • you're friend doesn't know what he talking about

  • throw him into geometrical dominator then

    im gonna be honest the "memory" part isnt even that memory the moment you understand you need to follow the lights

  • Mostly muscle memory

    And also muscle memory is not like 100% accurate, so thats why you die even though you have practiced many times. Also muscle memory takes a while to develope.

  • Muscle memory accuracy is a skill too it doesnt make the game any less easy

  • Isn't it the whole point of muscle-memory based games that you WILL fail whenever you make a mistake, and keep dying in different sections until you execute the click pattern accurate enough? If your muscle memory is poor you lose, if it's good you win, wtf your friend is on bru

  • It isnt in lower difficulties, but it deff is past extreme difficulty.

  • muscle memory won't be so precise down to the millisecond which explains why he dies at different parts

    but muscle memory is a significant part of the skill as it helps us consistently perform better day by day instead of restarting our progress every day. even more so at harder difficulties

  • It’s technically more pattern recognition than muscle memory. Muscle memory means you can do it blindfolded. The more you learn a level, the better your brain could respond to what’s shown on screen.

    That’s not to say there’s no muscle memory at all. Hexagon force asym dual is definitely muscle memory for me, since I can do it without looking.

  • Geometry dash is definitely not just a pure muscle memory game. If it was, we would be able beat levels with ease with a blindfold and without music, which we know is just not true. An example of something that is muscle memory would be playing an instrument - with enough practice, I can play full length concertos at the same level I could without the music

    Except some people actually do do this lol

    my point is that it is magnitudes harder than playing with

    yes and beating a top 500 invisible (not even blindfolded) is harder than beating a top 30 normally

    Still in both situations the core mechanic is playing it over and over again so the muscle memory becomes refined with the visual aid like reading sheet music.

  • bro’s trying to paint his friend as an egotistical idiot when his friend’s actually right LOL

    yes, gd does require some amount of pure muscle memory depending on the kind of gameplay you’re playing, but i think what you’re thinking about regarding how one improves at a level as they practice it is moreso derived from mental memory and hand-eye coordination. muscle memory is simply not as massive a factor as you think it is

    if you still disagree, go try to rebeat some level you’ve beaten, but blindfold yourself and turn the audio off, and see how far your “muscle memory” takes you

    Muscle memory goes hand in hand with your visual senses. The action which your muscle (your hand) takes is dictated by visual stimulus. The rate of clicks and how you click is dictated by muscle memory.

    Just because a piano player memorizes a piece does not mean they can play it blindfolded. They still require muscle memory in order to play the piece. But still of course, it’s not all muscle memory, but at higher levels of play, it absolutely is.

    muscle memory needs other stimuli too, you can't just do it out of nowhere. muscle memory is when you face a certain stimulus and you automatically know what to do without thinking. the piano reference the other guy gave is probably the best example, there's no way you're saying that piano isn't muscle memory if you can't play it blindfolded

    But a big part of muscle memory is using visual cues, his friend is actually just an idiot

    As if muscle memory doesn't go directly with other visual and audio stimuli as well.

    i can do better on deadlocked than a 7* daily on 10 attempts because i just know what deadlocked looks like while i dont for the daily