I know im bad like Michael Jackson, so why the fuck im fighting anywhere from Bronze to T500 (most usually Diamond) when im supposed to be fucking Gold?
And why are there 30 Supports and Tanks that are diverse in how they play, meanwhile every dps is just "trying to be Tracer and Widow"
Like bro thank god for Vendetta, but christ just add some easy fucking dps we aint all tryna be OWL.
why the fuck im fighting anywhere from Bronze to T500 (most usually Diamond) when im supposed to be fucking Gold?
Hero shooters have a lot of different ways to express skill, and players will frequently be able to have wild swings in performance despite the match still being technically fair with evenly matched players. One team could just be significantly more coordinated because they mostly are made up of by players who have similar playstyles. Another team could all be split and trying to go in very different directions. One player could be extremely strong as a diver so long as they have a second diver to help distract and clean up, but nearly useless as a solo diver. Another player could crumble under pressure but will MVP any and every match that they have space and support to work with. Another player may not utilize a single opportunity that their team creates for them, but could be exceptional at shutting down advantages that the enemy team tries to capitalize on.
All these different factors result in potentially very unbalanced feeling matches. It's up to you as a player to identify the strengths and weaknesses of teammates, figure out who you can mesh with the best, and lean into the advantages you can make of it. At the same time, you can help shore up the weaknesses of others, pulling them up and possibly enabling them to succeed where they only found failure previously. The more you begin to play around teammates in a team based hero shooter, the more success you'll find. You'll start to realize that you've got some of those diamond players on your team as well and you've got a fighting chance to win.
My issue is entirely based in the fact that the tone of matchmaking and games in OW is not consistent and that alone adds an absurd amount of frustration to the experience.
Because to me the fact of the matter is that the game could be balance significantly better in the context of how matchmaking is done and it used to be that way in OW1.
OW1 was an easier game, straight up. The game relied a lot more on everyone knowing what they could bring to the team and doing their part, open queue leaned into this as well (and modern 6v6 still does) the game was not as much about skill, it was about "Going through the motions" correctly and at the right time.
Or
Let me try to rephrase.
If youre going to put people from Bronze to Champion in the same lobby, those Bronze players need to be able to hold their own against the Champion players in that lobby. The heroes that facilitate that need to exist in the game full stop.
We cannot add fucking Freja flying into the skybox triple tapping people from blind spots they did not know existed, and then in terms of counterplay the conversation is "Oh skill issue, your champion player has to deal with that guy we actually dont have anything for you to do right now because you have to be a really good hitscan or an extremely good player overall"
We have an absurd amount of heros like "Freja" in this example in the game now, but we do not have the same safety rails or equalizers as we did in OW1 and thats why everyones also pissed off/toxic
Its a literal skill issue, but nobody asked to be nor wants to be matched regularly wildly beyond their means. The vast majority of people playing OW are playing the casual modes of OW.
The majority of people playing OW right now, play Support above every other role because support gives players the most agency to deal with the state of the game regardless of their skill level.
I dont give a shit about "winning", i want my matches to not feel like dogshit just because the poor T500 players are so fuckin good at the game they only got 15 people to play with. Fuck their queue times. Either "nerf them" so they dont dwarf the scrubs theyre being matched with. Or stop matching them with scrubs.
Because regardless of if i win or not im still constantly getting wildly enjoyable matches all the time where i dont have agency and i doubt im alone in the sentiment. If i wanted to sweat i would be in comp
Idk, as an OW player both yours and their points are valid. There's just gonna be games where the MM says "fuck it" and gives you a GM dps player to go against with a pocket mercy and your goobs of a dps are both diamond at most. Though typically these matches are more common in stadium than qp (QP has a wider range than comp, but stadium doesn't have said range, I've counted 30 soldiers who don't know the sprint key in my games.) Yet sometimes the goobs you're paired with might have good aim, but piss poor positioning and ability usage.
Stadium feels like a sincere attempt at trying to address the feeling im trying to articulate partially? At least that how it comes across to me
I play a lot of Stadium because even thouhh the MM is wild at times the mode "now" feels like it offers you enough ways to make a decent attempt in spite of your skill level and understanding or mastery of the game?
I feel like the barrier to success in stadium is mainly a willingness to broaden how you look at the game/mode, and so its a lot more welcoming and less frusttating?
HOWEVER.
The biggest issue of Stadium (imo) is just, supports vs dps.
Supports feel kinda bloated with power and tools that up their ease of play and agency. But they did not have their responsibilities diminished?
Barring a few Tanks, the overwhelming majority of healing. Support and utilities that will be coming from your team more then likely will come from a Support.
And that leaves dps in an awkward place once again because they dont feel as powerful or accessible as supports or tank. And still heavily rely on both.
Stadium is a lot more tight fisted with DPS cash than Tank or Support. It puts you in situations where if you are struggling and need to "build your way out" its significantly harder to do so at a deficit or disadvantage on dps.
And so all these factors combine into people just, passing over the role. Which makes the support queue a mess, which in turn ruins the matchmaking because the MM prioritizes getting people into matches.
Iirc, when i played Monday my queue timers were around 5, 1, 10. Tank, DPS, Support. Which is mind blowing because it means that at least at the time of day i was on, we had more than double the Tanks than we did DPS- while only needing half as many.
Thats not okay, and is kinda the biggest thing im getting at.
DPS isnt "fun" enough, you can play hard games, or mismatched games and still have an enjoyable time because it feels like you have the agency to carry or express yourself without being held back by your team or hero options.
For what its worth, i feel like in stadium and 6v6 they are making more concessions to try to dial back the frustration of playing overall and Vendetta getting mainly buffs pre release kinda leaves me optimistic.
Again sorry for rambling.
TLDR. Devs dont seem oblivious and have been gradually easing the sort of changes im crying about back into the game. The MM might still be cheeks, but its not as damning as it could be in the other modes.
Really? Because in all my games dps matters the 2nd most. Tanks matter the most because if they explode instantly then the whole game is kinda fucked, then dps 2nd as they're the ones who blow people up, I've once gotten blown up by a cass in 1s because he was damage boosted with his fth.
The MM in Stadium is wild because there's no actual MM, I've gotten bronze dps on my team against a GM dps multiple times already.
Supports basically just got more cool things as Stadium was initially designed around 4v4 with 1:2:1. 1 Tank, 2 Dps, 1 Support.
Tanks on stadium actually get to feel like raid bosses unlike qp/comp where people still parrot such things. Like Hazard at some point could just insta 300 damage someone off his wall only.
Imo its not that DPS "dont matter" or matter less. They just express their power/value in a way that is much more common and has a lot of ways of being dealt with.
On top of them lacking the independence of the other roles.
You can be blown up by every role and hero in stadium barring maybe Mercy. Thats just the nature of Stadium.
But for dps it feels not so good that the purpose youre supposed to speciaize in, you dont uniquely excel at (Assassin Kiriko was wilder than any Genji could ever be) on top of you not having any flexiblility extended to your role.
As for Hazard (and Tanks)
He kinda just, exposed the support players. His nerfs were not that substantial tbqh. He lost 20 Dmg, and 15 Dmg on 2 of his powers that related to Wall. That people exaggerated a lot of the effectiveness of.
But the reason Haz was and is still good. Is that he is the first and imo still the only Tank that easily contests and challenges a lot of supports. And they were used to being top dog.
Mercy, Moira. Kiri, Lucio, and Juno kinda all get fucked by Hazard in Stadium and he doesnt have to be cracked at the game to do it. 4 of those 5 probably account for like 99% of the support players in Stadium.
Personally i think Haz is massive irony because the same things people whine about as it relates to him, are true of Support. "He just jumps at you turns his brain off and you die. "
I feel like he (or Ramm) was overdue.
Stadium is much better when all the roles have a few braindead heroes. Supports maybe had too much time of only really being checked by players who eclipsed them in skill while also having the most braindead builds
And i say that as an Ana who exploited the fuck out of Old Tranq with the 500% Collision size boost.
"Can you hit a Genji with an instant Sigma Accretion that moves as fast as a hitscan"
Thankfully if the recent patches are any indication theyre gonna keep bumping the DPS to be more broadly appealing. Cass got his Lasso Grenade back and some love shown to his Fth
Because why shouldnt he? Certainly cant be an issue of power
I personally wouldn't say that hazard's burst was exaggerated. I used him to a disgusting amount of value. Often ending games before my dps hit 2k dps
But yeah, most dps don't alter their intended gameplay much, and those that do are meme/shit builds (e.g. : AP reaper, hard to scale, incredibly slow, high downtime if you dont get kills or AP Cass, a few of them have much more solid meme builds tho, like running man soldier)
I see youre point, im not trying to like diminish how good Haz was. Im still playing him.
But the way people talked him up felt wildly disingenuous. 50 Dmg Wall, 80 Dmg when it detonates, 35 bonus dmg for making it bigger. Thats 2 Powers to do 165 Dmg that isnt super consistent.
Have people never fought Rein and had someone die instantly to a Firestrike? Or worse die because someone besides you didnt DODGE the firestrike and they explode for splash damage.
Or fought BurnRisa. With 1500 HP and the 325 HP Burn AoE when she reloads in your face?
All the Stadium Tanks are cracked. People pointing at the wall like its this new low point just felt super wierd to me. Like what Tanks and matches has everyone been playing that, thats what is latched onto.
Yep. I always only allowed voice chat for teammates that are actually on my friends list. Too many toxic “git gud” players out there.
It’s a game, being (or thinking you are) good at it doesn’t make you special. Same with physical sports, to be clear. A lot of professional athletes and amateur gamers with inflated egos out there.
Yeah, it’s because they just went through a huge loss streak and feel terrible about it, so when they win a single match they want to unload all of their misery on every one around them
Nah. I always hit the toxic players with the classic "Get muted kid" line. Infuriates them most of the time. It's nice that the ancient texts still work to this day.
Stress is personal. I can deal with vocal idiots without having stress. For me the most stressful games are like stardew valley, that constant timer is killing.
If youre playing an online game just to turn off just online features maybe you should consider why you shouldn't just go play a game tailored for single player.
There are many online games where you don't speak to each other. This is a silly view & makes you look like you might be one of those toxic people. If listening to rados & talking to them is optional then what's the problem?
I have had this conversation with other people in multiplayer games because I know I'm trash and have no shame about it. If you're paired with me then I've got some bad news for you...
The answer to this for me is always time played. I'll be silver because I've played for 2 days. If you're silver and been playing for 2 years, you probably just stuck.
My first ever game of League of Legends I was getting a heap of abuse from my teammates. I happily admitted I was shit and had owned the game for 10 minutes.
I asked how they could know so much about how to play the game and yet still be getting matched up with dogshit like me and they went silent for the rest of the match
Eh, it's a very dumb argument that shitters routinely parrot. If you're driving somewhere, and incoming traffic is in the opposite lane, will the two of you end up at the same destination?
Because to them, it's the team dragging them down. If the game just gave them better teammates they'd "be able to climb out of this hellhole" and totally wouldn't instantly become a liability as they proceed to make yet another account in the hopes that this time they "won't get bad luck."
Yeah, this is the pattern I've noticed as well. Of course there's luck involved, but usually when someone always complains about their own teams, that person is often the source of the problem.
I will counter this by pointing out War Thunder as an example. The game has no skill based matchmaking and limited spawns per match. It does not matter how well you do individually if half your team is out of the game in the first two minutes, which happens frequently. You can be the highest scoring player in the match by far and still lose because your teammates are oxygen thieves who only know how to drive forward until something shoots them. One good player cannot carry a match because there are more objectives than just killing the enemy, and good positioning and map knowledge can only carry you so far.
Try playing a game like League of Legends and the SBMM will lock you into a rank for months/years because the playerbase is so large it KNOWS you should be in that rank. Don't like Gold rank? Well guess what, Gold rank means you're better than 50% of the playerbase. Which is over 5 MILLION players. The system isn't going to rank you up unless you start kicking ass CONSISTENTLY.
League does lock you into ranks. Its part the game's anti-smurfing system.
And being 1% better than the people in your current rank is my point. Being 1% better than Gold rank players means you have to beat tens of thousands of players to 'prove' you're better than them. Obviously the system isn't going to make you beat each, and, every, single, one, of, them: but you do have to "outrank" a good chunk of them.
Over time yes, but in a given play session you can easily go on a losing streak with just a little bit of bad luck. Sometimes, you just get throwers. Sometimes the match is decided before the game even starts because 2 players from a previous match got beef with each other. Sometimes you will get a leaver. I would never blame my rank on my teammates but I'll be damned if they weren't responsible for some bad sessions lol.
I'm not saying it'll never happen, that you'll never have bad teams and that all games are necessarily salvageable, but we're talking about people who constantly complain about losing because of their teams without ever taking responsibility for anything they do or don't.
The stats page doesn't tell you who made the right plays in a team game with non identical characters. The stats are helpful for determining your own progress over a larger period of time, using the data from many matches. But you can't look at any particular stat and say that x player was best because of stats y and z. Focusing on those stats may have even been the cause of failure for the team.
If you find that your team is consistently shit, perhaps you should try to support and enable them to succeed. You have consistently randomized teammates and opponents. The enemy team doesn't consistently have the good players and you get the bad players. There's only one common denominator from match to match that could possibly create this anomaly that you experience, and that's you.
I'm in the marvel rivals sub and it's crazy how everyone seems to think they're they're best on their team and that everyone else is a barely functional mouth breather.
"I'm good at the game but bronze is hell to get out of because every game has XYZ"
No, it isn't. You just aren't good at the game. If you were you'd breeze through the lowest rank.
Its also possible you were 1st in the team due to kills but you didn't contribute anything meaningful to a victory.
Like in League, you could split push 24/7, get a billion kills, but the rest of their team is fed enough to deal with your team 3v4. Like yeah, you did well, but you weren't doing the right thing and you didn't contribute at all.
And then the enemy team is fucking diamonds and masters, anyone that says modern skill based matchmaking is functional is lying to you, if im getting teammates of my skill level I better be getting opponents of my skill level
Because the algorithm is engagement based instead of skill based. And the algorithm has figured out that if it pairs me with absolute idiots at this specific time I will rage queue another game after. So please turn on your monitor and let’s go.
I've been on a roll where I've decided to frequently vc to my team as a mercy main and ive been winning way more games, even pulling through and winning those with rough starts
callouts, compliments, hype, its fun to be in VC with me lately.
condoloscences, "good luck out there" "can't win them all", when we lose I like to think maybe im helping keeping some teammates from being tilted if they hear someone calmly comming.
maybe other solo players who are already in VC would like the company of hearing someone [nontoxic] on the VC for once,
and at this point ive noticed that most games I lose its because not one person can hear me Y ^ Y
and after talking for maybe about 100 games at this point, i haven't had anyone be mean to me. I think im well received
The pve mission pack has some good story but only three missions isn't worth the price and I desperately wish there was more. Here's to manifesting new pve missions in the future
Elo hell is a lie you tell yourself to pretend you're better than your teammates. The same type of person that bitches first in a team game to "immunize" yourself from any fault from a loss.
In some cases it could be argued to be real. For example, on the cusp of ranking up and ranking down in a lot of games people tend to play worse because of nerves (of either playing good enough to rank up or to avoid ranking down) and then sort of get stuck there for a while.
I ran into this very issue when playing old Overwatch. Got stuck on the cusp of Plat, Diamond, and Master for quite some time before eventually getting permanently stuck on the cusp of GM (probably reaching a cross between nerves and just my skill reaching its cap).
ELO hell contains a lot of "it's not my fault" in the definition. Your ELO should be higher, but you're bad teammates are keeping you here where you don't deserve. Otherwise, that's just playing with people at your skill level/ELO.
Matchmaking put me with you to even it out knowing id have a launcher on one shoulder and you on the other... now keep your head down, follow my lead and you might just live to the end.
Counter point, he has more recoil on his gun that he can't control than mercy who has the bare minimum fire arms training, the best shot in the new west would find a way to counter the recoil
I regularly try to raise the spirits of both my teammates and the opponents, whenever I see people saying mean things or arguing with each other I'll try to intervene and remind everyone that we're just playing a game, it's meant to be fun so there's no reason to get so upset about it.
Always remember, games are meant to be fun, for everyone involved. Even if you're losing there's no reason to say mean things
Teammates being bad or not is irrelevant, anyone can have a bad day and just not hit their shots or misplay. The issue begins once you realize that 60% of all matches in overwatch end up with a leaver or someone going afk in spawn.
The first Titanfall game was a nightmare. I don't know for certain, but I felt like it paired the best players with the worst players in any given match. In theory, it's an okay system. This was how we balanced teams at Halo LAN parties back in the day, but as a solo player online, I had a 95% MVP rate but something like a 35% win rate on my last Regen. I didn't play on coms; I knew better than to be toxic directly to the other players, but I was screaming at my TV at the top of my lungs about 65% of the time.
The argument I've heard is depending on the game a bad team mate is often enough to ruin someone else's game. For example in dota/lol having a bad carry often means you're already behind and will need to have someone take on that role. Effectively 1 bad player is going to ruin the other 4s time.
That's why I only play multiplayer with friends because that way I know we're all trash.
A lot of cope in this thread. Most rank systems these days you start low and work your way up. So there are the lifers and the guys just passing through, and they often hate each other.
Some people also tilt easier than others. So there are people who, on a good day play their rank or even higher, but might be on tilt thus playing like the child they are.
"Because the matchmaker ranks the team performance instead of the individual! And guess what? I ALWAYS GET PAIRED WITH IDIOTS LIKE YOU!"
Is the usual response I have in those games. You have no idea how many times I lose ranking because someone on my team is intentionally throwing in higher tier matches so their ranking will let them eventually fight easy opponents.
"Because I took a break for four seasons to let my back recover from carrying teams like this."
I kid, but I was Grandmaster on Mecha Break S0, and when I came back I'm sitting through silver teams where people have never heard of an objective. Half my wins are MVP, and 90% of my losses are SVP.
This kind of thing can and does happen, just depends on how the matchmaker works.
I don't believe competitive multiplayer games will ever be a place where people don't talk shit. That's not why I don't play them anymore, just saying, it comes with the territory. But to the point of the image in this post - yeah, people never stop to think that we're in the same place because we share the same interests and it wouldn't be worth it if no one else did.
That’s one good thing about ranked modes, the skills are usually closer, or at least easier to justify why you’re put together. Unranked I’m sure has a ranking system too, but people can make up excuses there.
First time I tried a League match I got a guy flaming me exactly like this. Like, dude. I know I’m new and haven’t figured shit out, but you’re the one being matched with my dumbass and claim experience, so who really sucks?
If everywhere you go smells like shit, check your shoes
It's my shoes fault! I knew it wasn't me!
Bravo 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
I have to use this one some day 🤣
See for me, whats irritating.
I know im bad like Michael Jackson, so why the fuck im fighting anywhere from Bronze to T500 (most usually Diamond) when im supposed to be fucking Gold?
And why are there 30 Supports and Tanks that are diverse in how they play, meanwhile every dps is just "trying to be Tracer and Widow"
Like bro thank god for Vendetta, but christ just add some easy fucking dps we aint all tryna be OWL.
Hero shooters have a lot of different ways to express skill, and players will frequently be able to have wild swings in performance despite the match still being technically fair with evenly matched players. One team could just be significantly more coordinated because they mostly are made up of by players who have similar playstyles. Another team could all be split and trying to go in very different directions. One player could be extremely strong as a diver so long as they have a second diver to help distract and clean up, but nearly useless as a solo diver. Another player could crumble under pressure but will MVP any and every match that they have space and support to work with. Another player may not utilize a single opportunity that their team creates for them, but could be exceptional at shutting down advantages that the enemy team tries to capitalize on.
All these different factors result in potentially very unbalanced feeling matches. It's up to you as a player to identify the strengths and weaknesses of teammates, figure out who you can mesh with the best, and lean into the advantages you can make of it. At the same time, you can help shore up the weaknesses of others, pulling them up and possibly enabling them to succeed where they only found failure previously. The more you begin to play around teammates in a team based hero shooter, the more success you'll find. You'll start to realize that you've got some of those diamond players on your team as well and you've got a fighting chance to win.
I disagree with the spirit of your post.
My issue is entirely based in the fact that the tone of matchmaking and games in OW is not consistent and that alone adds an absurd amount of frustration to the experience.
Because to me the fact of the matter is that the game could be balance significantly better in the context of how matchmaking is done and it used to be that way in OW1.
OW1 was an easier game, straight up. The game relied a lot more on everyone knowing what they could bring to the team and doing their part, open queue leaned into this as well (and modern 6v6 still does) the game was not as much about skill, it was about "Going through the motions" correctly and at the right time.
Or
Let me try to rephrase.
If youre going to put people from Bronze to Champion in the same lobby, those Bronze players need to be able to hold their own against the Champion players in that lobby. The heroes that facilitate that need to exist in the game full stop.
We cannot add fucking Freja flying into the skybox triple tapping people from blind spots they did not know existed, and then in terms of counterplay the conversation is "Oh skill issue, your champion player has to deal with that guy we actually dont have anything for you to do right now because you have to be a really good hitscan or an extremely good player overall"
We have an absurd amount of heros like "Freja" in this example in the game now, but we do not have the same safety rails or equalizers as we did in OW1 and thats why everyones also pissed off/toxic
Its a literal skill issue, but nobody asked to be nor wants to be matched regularly wildly beyond their means. The vast majority of people playing OW are playing the casual modes of OW.
The majority of people playing OW right now, play Support above every other role because support gives players the most agency to deal with the state of the game regardless of their skill level.
I dont give a shit about "winning", i want my matches to not feel like dogshit just because the poor T500 players are so fuckin good at the game they only got 15 people to play with. Fuck their queue times. Either "nerf them" so they dont dwarf the scrubs theyre being matched with. Or stop matching them with scrubs.
Because regardless of if i win or not im still constantly getting wildly enjoyable matches all the time where i dont have agency and i doubt im alone in the sentiment. If i wanted to sweat i would be in comp
Apologies for Rambling.
Idk, as an OW player both yours and their points are valid. There's just gonna be games where the MM says "fuck it" and gives you a GM dps player to go against with a pocket mercy and your goobs of a dps are both diamond at most. Though typically these matches are more common in stadium than qp (QP has a wider range than comp, but stadium doesn't have said range, I've counted 30 soldiers who don't know the sprint key in my games.) Yet sometimes the goobs you're paired with might have good aim, but piss poor positioning and ability usage.
Stadium feels like a sincere attempt at trying to address the feeling im trying to articulate partially? At least that how it comes across to me
I play a lot of Stadium because even thouhh the MM is wild at times the mode "now" feels like it offers you enough ways to make a decent attempt in spite of your skill level and understanding or mastery of the game?
I feel like the barrier to success in stadium is mainly a willingness to broaden how you look at the game/mode, and so its a lot more welcoming and less frusttating?
HOWEVER.
The biggest issue of Stadium (imo) is just, supports vs dps.
Supports feel kinda bloated with power and tools that up their ease of play and agency. But they did not have their responsibilities diminished?
Barring a few Tanks, the overwhelming majority of healing. Support and utilities that will be coming from your team more then likely will come from a Support.
And that leaves dps in an awkward place once again because they dont feel as powerful or accessible as supports or tank. And still heavily rely on both.
Stadium is a lot more tight fisted with DPS cash than Tank or Support. It puts you in situations where if you are struggling and need to "build your way out" its significantly harder to do so at a deficit or disadvantage on dps.
And so all these factors combine into people just, passing over the role. Which makes the support queue a mess, which in turn ruins the matchmaking because the MM prioritizes getting people into matches.
Iirc, when i played Monday my queue timers were around 5, 1, 10. Tank, DPS, Support. Which is mind blowing because it means that at least at the time of day i was on, we had more than double the Tanks than we did DPS- while only needing half as many.
Thats not okay, and is kinda the biggest thing im getting at.
DPS isnt "fun" enough, you can play hard games, or mismatched games and still have an enjoyable time because it feels like you have the agency to carry or express yourself without being held back by your team or hero options.
For what its worth, i feel like in stadium and 6v6 they are making more concessions to try to dial back the frustration of playing overall and Vendetta getting mainly buffs pre release kinda leaves me optimistic.
Again sorry for rambling.
TLDR. Devs dont seem oblivious and have been gradually easing the sort of changes im crying about back into the game. The MM might still be cheeks, but its not as damning as it could be in the other modes.
Really? Because in all my games dps matters the 2nd most. Tanks matter the most because if they explode instantly then the whole game is kinda fucked, then dps 2nd as they're the ones who blow people up, I've once gotten blown up by a cass in 1s because he was damage boosted with his fth.
The MM in Stadium is wild because there's no actual MM, I've gotten bronze dps on my team against a GM dps multiple times already.
Supports basically just got more cool things as Stadium was initially designed around 4v4 with 1:2:1. 1 Tank, 2 Dps, 1 Support.
Tanks on stadium actually get to feel like raid bosses unlike qp/comp where people still parrot such things. Like Hazard at some point could just insta 300 damage someone off his wall only.
Ill try to be a bit more concise.
Imo its not that DPS "dont matter" or matter less. They just express their power/value in a way that is much more common and has a lot of ways of being dealt with.
On top of them lacking the independence of the other roles.
You can be blown up by every role and hero in stadium barring maybe Mercy. Thats just the nature of Stadium.
But for dps it feels not so good that the purpose youre supposed to speciaize in, you dont uniquely excel at (Assassin Kiriko was wilder than any Genji could ever be) on top of you not having any flexiblility extended to your role.
As for Hazard (and Tanks)
He kinda just, exposed the support players. His nerfs were not that substantial tbqh. He lost 20 Dmg, and 15 Dmg on 2 of his powers that related to Wall. That people exaggerated a lot of the effectiveness of.
But the reason Haz was and is still good. Is that he is the first and imo still the only Tank that easily contests and challenges a lot of supports. And they were used to being top dog.
Mercy, Moira. Kiri, Lucio, and Juno kinda all get fucked by Hazard in Stadium and he doesnt have to be cracked at the game to do it. 4 of those 5 probably account for like 99% of the support players in Stadium.
Personally i think Haz is massive irony because the same things people whine about as it relates to him, are true of Support. "He just jumps at you turns his brain off and you die. "
I feel like he (or Ramm) was overdue.
Stadium is much better when all the roles have a few braindead heroes. Supports maybe had too much time of only really being checked by players who eclipsed them in skill while also having the most braindead builds
And i say that as an Ana who exploited the fuck out of Old Tranq with the 500% Collision size boost.
"Can you hit a Genji with an instant Sigma Accretion that moves as fast as a hitscan"
Thankfully if the recent patches are any indication theyre gonna keep bumping the DPS to be more broadly appealing. Cass got his Lasso Grenade back and some love shown to his Fth
Because why shouldnt he? Certainly cant be an issue of power
I personally wouldn't say that hazard's burst was exaggerated. I used him to a disgusting amount of value. Often ending games before my dps hit 2k dps
But yeah, most dps don't alter their intended gameplay much, and those that do are meme/shit builds (e.g. : AP reaper, hard to scale, incredibly slow, high downtime if you dont get kills or AP Cass, a few of them have much more solid meme builds tho, like running man soldier)
Yeah.
I see youre point, im not trying to like diminish how good Haz was. Im still playing him.
But the way people talked him up felt wildly disingenuous. 50 Dmg Wall, 80 Dmg when it detonates, 35 bonus dmg for making it bigger. Thats 2 Powers to do 165 Dmg that isnt super consistent.
Have people never fought Rein and had someone die instantly to a Firestrike? Or worse die because someone besides you didnt DODGE the firestrike and they explode for splash damage.
Or fought BurnRisa. With 1500 HP and the 325 HP Burn AoE when she reloads in your face?
All the Stadium Tanks are cracked. People pointing at the wall like its this new low point just felt super wierd to me. Like what Tanks and matches has everyone been playing that, thats what is latched onto.
I heard this first in church as, "If the world stinks, check your mustache for cheese."
I learned later this is only a single variant of that saying
When I play online I routinely mute the entire lobby so I don’t know whose being nice or not lol
Which is the best alternative to avoid toxic players.
Videogames are supposed to be fun and enjoyable, not stressful and miserable.
Yep. I always only allowed voice chat for teammates that are actually on my friends list. Too many toxic “git gud” players out there.
It’s a game, being (or thinking you are) good at it doesn’t make you special. Same with physical sports, to be clear. A lot of professional athletes and amateur gamers with inflated egos out there.
It’s not even that. Most good players aren’t actually toxic, it’s the bad ones that want everyone else to think they are better than they are
That’s fair. But the toxic ones always seemed to be the ones that talk the most or loudest in the open, in my experience.
Yeah, it’s because they just went through a huge loss streak and feel terrible about it, so when they win a single match they want to unload all of their misery on every one around them
Nah. I always hit the toxic players with the classic "Get muted kid" line. Infuriates them most of the time. It's nice that the ancient texts still work to this day.
Stress is personal. I can deal with vocal idiots without having stress. For me the most stressful games are like stardew valley, that constant timer is killing.
Eh, depends on what the developer is intending
If you can have fun while being stressed playing a videogame that's totally fine.
But remember most of us don't enjoy that.
That's called single player bro
It can happen both ways.
There are multiplayer games that are incredibly fun and single player games designed to turn your hair white.
Its fun and enjoyable for you but youre the reason why hes toxic.
Getting toxic over somebody not being good at a video game = child mentality
Imagine saying this, but actually meaning it.
Nah. It's his choice to be toxic. Nobody else can make him act that way.
no u.
😂😂😂 Mfs like this don't have mirrors
There's only one common denominator in all your games, care to take a guess what it is?
That's how I play, so to me everyone in BF6 is a consummate professional lol
If youre playing an online game just to turn off just online features maybe you should consider why you shouldn't just go play a game tailored for single player.
Is it really that hard of a concept to understand that people want to play with others without being harassed for any little thing?
There are many online games where you don't speak to each other. This is a silly view & makes you look like you might be one of those toxic people. If listening to rados & talking to them is optional then what's the problem?
"This team is so fucking garbage bro."
"You do realize you're a part of it, right?"
XxXW33DMUNT3RXxX has left the game (Client Disconnect)
I have had this conversation with other people in multiplayer games because I know I'm trash and have no shame about it. If you're paired with me then I've got some bad news for you...
I mean, I could be they are legitimately better, but they are paired with you to even out the overall skill distribution.
It depends on the game, but generally this isn't true. They could be like a tiny bit better on a good day, but averages are averages.
"You fucking suck!"
"We're both in the bottom tier, bro. I'm not the only one who sucks here"
It's not like someone starts their comp grind at global elite or whatever. Someone climbing while undoubtedly encounter shit players.
The answer to this for me is always time played. I'll be silver because I've played for 2 days. If you're silver and been playing for 2 years, you probably just stuck.
My first ever game of League of Legends I was getting a heap of abuse from my teammates. I happily admitted I was shit and had owned the game for 10 minutes.
I asked how they could know so much about how to play the game and yet still be getting matched up with dogshit like me and they went silent for the rest of the match
Eh, it's a very dumb argument that shitters routinely parrot. If you're driving somewhere, and incoming traffic is in the opposite lane, will the two of you end up at the same destination?
" You guys are all so bad , this elo is dogshit " . Brother , if you are so much better than us why are you even here ?
Because to them, it's the team dragging them down. If the game just gave them better teammates they'd "be able to climb out of this hellhole" and totally wouldn't instantly become a liability as they proceed to make yet another account in the hopes that this time they "won't get bad luck."
I called my silver overwatch teammates trash while on my climb to diamond. Crazy concept, right?
Yep, if someone loses alot and complains about having bad teams constantly, the only common denominator is they themselves lol
Yeah, this is the pattern I've noticed as well. Of course there's luck involved, but usually when someone always complains about their own teams, that person is often the source of the problem.
I've started hitting them with "backseat gamer" haha
I will counter this by pointing out War Thunder as an example. The game has no skill based matchmaking and limited spawns per match. It does not matter how well you do individually if half your team is out of the game in the first two minutes, which happens frequently. You can be the highest scoring player in the match by far and still lose because your teammates are oxygen thieves who only know how to drive forward until something shoots them. One good player cannot carry a match because there are more objectives than just killing the enemy, and good positioning and map knowledge can only carry you so far.
War Thunder is a little different because it doesn't have SBMM and the nations have vastly different playerbases lol.
Just don't pick Germany, hell, pick Israel or Sweden and you'll get carried more often than not.
Edit: Also, it is possible to hard carry in War Thunder still, just look at Spookston or OddBawz.
Germany hasn't even been the problem lately. The US players have been playing like they share a singular brain cell.
I don't even play the game and can confirm this is just the American way.
The playerbase part is a much bigger issue IMO.
Try playing a game like League of Legends and the SBMM will lock you into a rank for months/years because the playerbase is so large it KNOWS you should be in that rank. Don't like Gold rank? Well guess what, Gold rank means you're better than 50% of the playerbase. Which is over 5 MILLION players. The system isn't going to rank you up unless you start kicking ass CONSISTENTLY.
League doesn't really lock you in ranks, its actually quite sensitive especially outside of ranked.
But if you're even 1% better than the people in your current rank you will climb given enough games.
League does lock you into ranks. Its part the game's anti-smurfing system.
And being 1% better than the people in your current rank is my point. Being 1% better than Gold rank players means you have to beat tens of thousands of players to 'prove' you're better than them. Obviously the system isn't going to make you beat each, and, every, single, one, of, them: but you do have to "outrank" a good chunk of them.
In a game like CoD, sure. In a game like Overwatch which is very team oriented, eh...
Doesn't matter, its statistically impossible for you to lose more than 50% of your games at a given rank as long as you are carrying your own weight.
Thats just an excuse, a very bad one.
Over time yes, but in a given play session you can easily go on a losing streak with just a little bit of bad luck. Sometimes, you just get throwers. Sometimes the match is decided before the game even starts because 2 players from a previous match got beef with each other. Sometimes you will get a leaver. I would never blame my rank on my teammates but I'll be damned if they weren't responsible for some bad sessions lol.
I'm not saying it'll never happen, that you'll never have bad teams and that all games are necessarily salvageable, but we're talking about people who constantly complain about losing because of their teams without ever taking responsibility for anything they do or don't.
When I lose 5 games in a row and I'm top of the team in all but the fifth, it is not my fault my team is consistently shit.
The stats page doesn't tell you who made the right plays in a team game with non identical characters. The stats are helpful for determining your own progress over a larger period of time, using the data from many matches. But you can't look at any particular stat and say that x player was best because of stats y and z. Focusing on those stats may have even been the cause of failure for the team.
If you find that your team is consistently shit, perhaps you should try to support and enable them to succeed. You have consistently randomized teammates and opponents. The enemy team doesn't consistently have the good players and you get the bad players. There's only one common denominator from match to match that could possibly create this anomaly that you experience, and that's you.
I'm in the marvel rivals sub and it's crazy how everyone seems to think they're they're best on their team and that everyone else is a barely functional mouth breather.
"I'm good at the game but bronze is hell to get out of because every game has XYZ"
No, it isn't. You just aren't good at the game. If you were you'd breeze through the lowest rank.
Its also possible you were 1st in the team due to kills but you didn't contribute anything meaningful to a victory.
Like in League, you could split push 24/7, get a billion kills, but the rest of their team is fed enough to deal with your team 3v4. Like yeah, you did well, but you weren't doing the right thing and you didn't contribute at all.
And then the enemy team is fucking diamonds and masters, anyone that says modern skill based matchmaking is functional is lying to you, if im getting teammates of my skill level I better be getting opponents of my skill level
I played Smite, and when I moved up in ranks, I realized my enemies stayed the same skill level, but my teammates were getting worse.
In the most technical terms the game was getting harder and requiring a skill level, but also, fuck you.
You do, you just don't like to be challenged.
Because 1400 + 1000 = average 1200
Because the algorithm is engagement based instead of skill based. And the algorithm has figured out that if it pairs me with absolute idiots at this specific time I will rage queue another game after. So please turn on your monitor and let’s go.
And otherwise you are the Idiot for the other players?
The funniest thing is that I noticed that you can really bring out the best in people by encouraging them.
I've been on a roll where I've decided to frequently vc to my team as a mercy main and ive been winning way more games, even pulling through and winning those with rough starts
callouts, compliments, hype, its fun to be in VC with me lately.
condoloscences, "good luck out there" "can't win them all", when we lose I like to think maybe im helping keeping some teammates from being tilted if they hear someone calmly comming.
maybe other solo players who are already in VC would like the company of hearing someone [nontoxic] on the VC for once,
and at this point ive noticed that most games I lose its because not one person can hear me Y ^ Y
and after talking for maybe about 100 games at this point, i haven't had anyone be mean to me. I think im well received
The screenshots are from Overwatch, in case anyone was wondering. The "Retribution" Coop missions, to be more precise.
I miss those missions, they should bring them back
Man those event missions used to be fire. I really miss overwatch (1) and all the stories it had.
The pve mission pack has some good story but only three missions isn't worth the price and I desperately wish there was more. Here's to manifesting new pve missions in the future
Nah this is obviously Engi and Sniper from Team Fortress 3
Liar, Steam can't count to 3.
I thought it was monkeys and stuff in that game.
"My teammates could hide their own Easter eggs."
Sit down, son, let me tell you about "elo hell".
Elo hell is a lie you tell yourself to pretend you're better than your teammates. The same type of person that bitches first in a team game to "immunize" yourself from any fault from a loss.
In some cases it could be argued to be real. For example, on the cusp of ranking up and ranking down in a lot of games people tend to play worse because of nerves (of either playing good enough to rank up or to avoid ranking down) and then sort of get stuck there for a while.
I ran into this very issue when playing old Overwatch. Got stuck on the cusp of Plat, Diamond, and Master for quite some time before eventually getting permanently stuck on the cusp of GM (probably reaching a cross between nerves and just my skill reaching its cap).
I can see a nerves argument, but I don't think that's the common usage. Fair to bring it up for sure
Naw man I know I suck at the game, that's the point.
Elo hell is the zone where everyone knows how to be good, knows what is bad, but can't consistently avoid the bad while delivering on the good.
ELO hell contains a lot of "it's not my fault" in the definition. Your ELO should be higher, but you're bad teammates are keeping you here where you don't deserve. Otherwise, that's just playing with people at your skill level/ELO.
Matchmaking put me with you to even it out knowing id have a launcher on one shoulder and you on the other... now keep your head down, follow my lead and you might just live to the end.
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Counter point, he has more recoil on his gun that he can't control than mercy who has the bare minimum fire arms training, the best shot in the new west would find a way to counter the recoil
I always felt that matchmaking took the average of the team's combined skill level with metrics that aren't displayed to the player.
More often than not, I feel both extremes of either doing the carrying or I'm being carried.
When I played OW and some idiot was being toxic I'd always say "Well you got matched with us so what does that say about you?"
I regularly try to raise the spirits of both my teammates and the opponents, whenever I see people saying mean things or arguing with each other I'll try to intervene and remind everyone that we're just playing a game, it's meant to be fun so there's no reason to get so upset about it.
Always remember, games are meant to be fun, for everyone involved. Even if you're losing there's no reason to say mean things
Dang Engi and Sniper look weird in this
Teammates being bad or not is irrelevant, anyone can have a bad day and just not hit their shots or misplay. The issue begins once you realize that 60% of all matches in overwatch end up with a leaver or someone going afk in spawn.
Just mute them lol.
The first Titanfall game was a nightmare. I don't know for certain, but I felt like it paired the best players with the worst players in any given match. In theory, it's an okay system. This was how we balanced teams at Halo LAN parties back in the day, but as a solo player online, I had a 95% MVP rate but something like a 35% win rate on my last Regen. I didn't play on coms; I knew better than to be toxic directly to the other players, but I was screaming at my TV at the top of my lungs about 65% of the time.
This should be the first rule that MOBA players learn.
The argument I've heard is depending on the game a bad team mate is often enough to ruin someone else's game. For example in dota/lol having a bad carry often means you're already behind and will need to have someone take on that role. Effectively 1 bad player is going to ruin the other 4s time.
That's why I only play multiplayer with friends because that way I know we're all trash.
I got told to uninstall in that very game just today. Jokes on them I already felt like shit so no emotional damage was taken
People in rookie iracing lobbies lmao
A lot of cope in this thread. Most rank systems these days you start low and work your way up. So there are the lifers and the guys just passing through, and they often hate each other.
Some people also tilt easier than others. So there are people who, on a good day play their rank or even higher, but might be on tilt thus playing like the child they are.
I always assume that I am the weakest link on my team.
I am usually correct. Even when I am solo. Especially when I am solo.
No
"Because the matchmaker ranks the team performance instead of the individual! And guess what? I ALWAYS GET PAIRED WITH IDIOTS LIKE YOU!"
Is the usual response I have in those games. You have no idea how many times I lose ranking because someone on my team is intentionally throwing in higher tier matches so their ranking will let them eventually fight easy opponents.
"Because I took a break for four seasons to let my back recover from carrying teams like this."
I kid, but I was Grandmaster on Mecha Break S0, and when I came back I'm sitting through silver teams where people have never heard of an objective. Half my wins are MVP, and 90% of my losses are SVP.
This kind of thing can and does happen, just depends on how the matchmaker works.
I don't believe competitive multiplayer games will ever be a place where people don't talk shit. That's not why I don't play them anymore, just saying, it comes with the territory. But to the point of the image in this post - yeah, people never stop to think that we're in the same place because we share the same interests and it wouldn't be worth it if no one else did.
How is it that I get mvp in most my games and still lose? Then I check my teammates and they did nothing? Am i still the problem?
Guys, it's 2025, you should know by now matchmaking doesn't work the way it should but it's optimized for engagement.
They have said that, they even have patents on that. I mean, yes, toxicity sucks but matchmaking sucks too.
I'm still upset from that time a complete stranger called me "worst ally ever" in a game of StarCraft in 1999.
My follow up comment would most likely lead to my permaban 😉
Damn, that insult is amazing
Let me introduce you to a timeless classic: "I'm rubber and you are glue", which is basically an ancestor of the insult in post.
I know I'm probably the worst one on the team, so I can't afford to get toxic
That’s one good thing about ranked modes, the skills are usually closer, or at least easier to justify why you’re put together. Unranked I’m sure has a ranking system too, but people can make up excuses there.
Is that fucking two eyes demo man?
Because human animals and matchmaking algorithms suck.
Long live singleplayer games.
Stuff like this is part of why I play single player.
I get maybe two hours a day if I sacrifice a bit of sleep. I’m not going to suffer other people being this way with my stolen fun time.
SBMM sux, you play better when you play with better people.
Not when you're playing games where you just get one tapped every time you turn a corner and learn nothing because you don't even see the enemy team
Have you tried seeing the enemy team?
Cause matchmaking is usually garbage
First time I tried a League match I got a guy flaming me exactly like this. Like, dude. I know I’m new and haven’t figured shit out, but you’re the one being matched with my dumbass and claim experience, so who really sucks?