I always see people saying “Daenerys shouldn’t have helped the North” or “the North owes Daenerys for helping them”. This doesn’t make any sense. The White Walkers were a threat to the entire world. Daenerys wasn’t bailing the North out, she had to ally with them in order to fight the White Walkers.
If the North never reached out to her, Daenerys’ first encounter with the White Walkers would’ve been her, and everyone else’s, doom. The information the Northerners had was critical, and without it her dragons would’ve only been good for cooking a few wights before getting taken down. If I’m being really honest, the North did far more work in the relationship.
So no, the North did not “owe” Daenerys anything for her joining forces to combat a common threat to all of them.
Spoiler Warning: All officially-released show and book content allowed, EXCLUDING FUTURE SPOILERS FOR HOUSE OF THE DRAGON. No leaked information or paparazzi photos of the set. For more info please check the spoiler guide.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Yeah. Honestly it's dumber that Cersei didn't join the alliance as opposed to questioning Dany for doing it. If the White Walkers get past the North, it means they wiped out the largest region in the continent and added all the dead to their numbers. All the dead bodies in the Riverlands are waking up next.
You lose Westeros if the North falls. Dany might as well go back to Mereen and hide if she doesn't help because you can kiss the Iron Throne and anything else goodbye.
True, I mean to save her own Army she could have sacrificed the North to consolidate & come up with a battle plan with the other Lords of Westeros. The reason they couldn't get other armies was because people didn't believe the WW existed. Once they knew they existed, everybody would join forces. The dead would have to get past the defenses of the North, and then they'd have to get through a lot of rough terrain, feet of snow, then marshes and swamps in the neck. Plus we don't know how they would react to warm weather they might start rotting or be less "preserved" and more fragile/easier to kill.
That's all going to take a lot of time, I don't know if they travel faster or smaller than the living but I'm sure people would start fleeing right away, plus the Army is only as good as its slowest members so a lot of people would escape on horseback/carriage and flee south. Most casualties would be civilian.
Once Cersei saw the north fall and really felt the pressure, the crown would probably join Daenerys. After the Tyrells were defeated, most of their army went back to their respective Lords, but I'm sure they would join in the battle. You have the gold company, you have all the soldiers from the Stormlands that would join, you probably have the greyjoys potentially helping because the Lannisters, I'm sure Dorne would join this unprecedented alliance against literal evil and death.
Plus the South isn't full of snow and terrible storms and darkness, yes they bring the storm with them but it would not be terrible conditions in the sky meaning her dragons would be a lot more effective. Like, probably mathematically a dozen times more effective. They killed what, like 1% of the WW army before they were useless in the sky?
This is all theory but it's theory based on human emotion, characters past decisions and probability.
She could have sacrificed the North and in doing so, saved a LOT of her army.
But when you have endless self resurrecting Dothraki & 11k invincible Unsullied, number arent important ig
My interpretation of the Long Night is that it brings a long, hard winter everywhere to Westeros. You're right, the South has a better climate, but I think that's what makes the Night King and the Army of the Dead so deadly. They bring the winter with them, and every mile they march southward, the Army gets a little bit bigger. They have no need for supply lines or set up camp -- their march is constant.
Yeah, but if you recall every other time theyve seen the night King the weather wasn't that bad ,even when they were north of the wall. It was already shitty weather that night and then the Night Kings storm added to it. If a terrible, the likes of which have never been seen snow storm hit California and Quebec, the effects would be completely different. It would suck in both places, but California would probably just sucks 6 out of 10, whereas Quebec would suck 10 out of 10. Probably similar situation
Because winter hadn't come yet. Their world still has seasons as natural occurrences. The Night King can amp up the winter. When the Long Night finally happened, it was like winter times two.
Yeah people have to also consider that Westeros was going into winter. They were going to have many issues with supply chains and being able to support an army. Look what happened to Stannis in some bad weather.
Valid
Agreed.
It is incredibly telling when people try and claim “Dany helped the North”. No, she clearly stated she gave zero fucks about “helping the North” when Jon asked the first few times… only when Dany realized the Army of the Undead was a threat to HER and HER GOALS did she suddenly beg Jon for the alliance… because it now was in her best interest in her eyes.
I mean, she’s the so-called “Protecter of the Realm”… she’s literally just doing the job she herself states she is responsible for as Queen.
The North owes Dany for saving their king. Saving Jon went against the advice of her hand and cost her a dragon. Saving Jon gained her nothing as Cersei still didn't help.
They owe her because their king made a deal with her to help.
Thats how alliances work.
The title Lord of the Seven Kingdoms includes the role of Protector of the Realm, and the North is part of that realm. Therefore, what Daenerys is doing is simply fulfilling that aspect of her claim to the Iron Throne. While it would be beneficial if the North helped her take the Iron Throne, there should be no quid pro quo, because protecting the North is already her responsibility.
Well, quid pro quo is what the entire concept of fiefdom and liege lords is based on, though? It is the ruler's responsibility to defend his people. It is the peoples' responsibility to serve their ruler and to fight for him if demanded. That's literally the point of taking oaths towards the crown.
This doesn't make sense at all. If she's obliged to protect them, the North is obliged to serve her.
I think I made that statement based on the fact that at the moment she offered her support the North was an independent entity.
Then she had no obligation to help them lol. You can't have it both ways.
Maybe, but does she ever acknowledge the North’s independence?
No. That doesn't prevent the North from beg her help. Dany is well within her rights to ask obeisance for military support.
You don't get things for free in this life why is she expected to give it all away?
Dany has a role to play in the game, but she is insignificant compared to those with real power. Jon is on his way to real power, he is Azor Ahai. Check legends for what that means.
Rhagar and Ned’s sister are insignificant. They are minor league players. Everyone looks at what is happening and misses what is really important.
What would be important would be a comet crashing into the planet and how do you stop that. A Winter that lasts years or decades, that would important. Who has the power to stop those things.
If you don’t think George is looking at issues like that you are not paying full attention to things. The Game of Thrones… is just a game. The power to destroy all humans, that is important.
Take our Earth for example… Empires and nations rise and fall. Ultimately, is not as important as the sea level going up 200 feet, which is guaranteed to happen, it is just a matter of time. There are many things that can kill all of humanity. These types of things have happened before. Look at the dinosaurs for one example. A comet, asteroid, or something else wiping humans out will happen eventually, but will science save us? Or in Westeros, will magic save us.
Who in Westeros has the power to deflect a comet or prevent a very long winter? It might even take generations to develop the right power to do the job. Who has that mission? Melisandre has that job and she has been working on it for hundreds of years. Her mission is to bring about Azor Ahai to save Westeros. She would stop at nothing to make it happen.
The foreshadowing for how she is doing it is right there in the story. So many many clues! How are you missing them.
Why was there going to be a show called Snow? Who is Fire and who is Ice? What is going on in the first ten minutes of GoT and what is happening is happening in the last ten minutes? You are all wrong. The clues are the, figure it out.
In real life Kit Harrington has an ancestor who was a Jesuit that participated in the Gunpowder Plot. He made a series on HBO called Gunpowder about the incident. In real life, do you know who his wife Rose is? She is a big deal amongst the Clans of Scotland! Her ancestors were chieftains. This is either ironic, or very clever.
Look at the stories about Bael the Bard, Mance Raeder, and Jon Snow. The three are tied very closely together. It is called foreshadowing. How have you missed it?!!
You really don’t get that this story is so much more interesting than you realize.
Look at the story about why Azor Ahai had to stab his sword into the heart of his beloved wife to unleash the power of his sword, Lightbringer.
It has been Melisandre, Mance, and Jon all along.
But you know what D&D did to save time? They killed Mance Raeder! He does not die in the book! He is saved by the illusion magic of Melisandre. I would love to know George’s reaction when he heard about that….
So, you go through life thinking that you don't owe anything to the only person who steps up to help you?
Why would I owe someone who agreed to mutually defend the land from a common enemy , or else we both get wiped out?
It's not like they did it out of their good graces just for the norths benefit.
So I'd say no absolute not.
Danerys could have fled to Essos any time she liked, she had a fleet and three dragons when she agreed to stop her campaign of conquest and fight the others, so you can't say she *had* to help the North.
Of course she did it partly to save Westeros, and humanity as a whole, and partly to impress the people of Westeros, but it's not like Jon bent the knee out of pure devotion to the rightful queen. He did it because he really wanted the Cersei off the throne, and maybe because he thought a stabilized central government was good for Westeros, and certainly because he didn't want to fight dragons as well as ice zombies. Everyone in this story has mixed motives.
It was a mutually beneficial agreement. With the only faction who would support fighting the WW (before it became too late).
Sure she could've continued her conquest, ignored them and then got wiped out later by them after conquering the lands, or possibly won and rule over barren wastelandsThat definitely was an option.
Yes that doesn't mean Daenerys is "owed".
Yes, I just told others that both Jon and Dany had mixed motives in agreeing to fight the Others together. Everyone in the whole story has mixed motives!
And again, Dany could have gone back to Essos any time, she had a fleet and three dragons when she agreed to risk everything for the good of Westeros. She didn't have to do that, and that in itself calls for at least some gratitude.
We're talking about the north not all of Westeros.
And it's not really genuine to say she risks everything for the good of westeros ..when she did it because her ambition isn't to be queen of a barren wasteland...lmao
"I wanted to make sure you're alive so I actually have subjects to rule" isn't what one would consider doing it out of good graces.
As I keep saying, nothing and nobody in this story is "really genuine", everyone has mixed motives and hidden agendas. Or obvious agendas. Everyone except maybe Ned Stark and Jon Snow, and they're far from perfect.
And Danerys fighting the others to save Westeros and advance her own cause was as about as decent as the heads of great houses ever get, Cersei deciding that the Others were welcome to kill everyone in the North was more typical of the heads of great houses.
I just want to remind you that Melisandre thinks Jon is Azor Ahai. She has pursuing that goal for hundreds of years. Melisandre is the most powerful being in Westeros. She knows Red Priest stuff, Shadow master stuff, illusion stuff, potions, can bring people back to life, she is a seer... You can learn a lot in 400 years. Melisandre is at least 400 old. Why is her magic connected to the Wall, in that the closer she gets, the stronger she becomes. Perhaps she is connected to the symbols made with humans or horses.
Jon knows nothing!
Also… look closely at the story of the wisewoman’s daughter who heals Mance after being attacked by a shadow cat. She just happens to have magic red silk from Asshai (where Melisandre is from). She uses it to make Mance a glamoured red and black cloak that can make Mance look like other people. Weird coincidence? No, foreshadowing!
"Melisandre is the most powerful being in Westeros."
I wish I had the energy to argue about that tonight, and perhaps it was true until Danerys arrived, as it's got to be true that Melisandre was the most magical person in Westeros. But I just don't have the energy tonight.
That's what Op is saying ...she didn't help them , they decided to fight the White Walkers together damn they even tried to ask help from Cercei cause mfs were coming for the entire world not just the North! Sooner or later all they would be dead humans and dragons, so she didn't do any favors here they all tried to survive the bigger threat here.
Of course Dany asked Cersei to help partly as a power move, she wanted to look like the savior of Westeros and Cersei the person who ignored the threat to all. But everyone in the whole damn story has mixed motives for the choices they make.
Just want to repeat what I said to the last person, Dany didn't *have* to help anyone, or Westeros. She had a fleet and three dragons, she could have gone back to Essos any time.
She didn't have to ally with them. She could have dealt with the threat at the Neck. Realistically, fighting the Night King at Winterfell shouldn't have worked and should have been the only option once they broke through the Wall.
She also didn't have to lose a dragon saving their king from his own stupid decisions.
Dany had 6x as many fighters as the North that's impossible.
The amount of posts from people who switch to different accounts to reply to themselves is weird.
What are you even on about?