Copy of weber moonraker - found the files on reddit and made some edits. Collar is wood PLA + stain and clearcoat. Internals are PA12-CF. Was committed to using what I had on hand - needles are guitar strings, and pins holding gears in place small nails that have been trimmed to size.
Was anyone else hoping to see the intended results of this gadget and was a little disappointed when the video just proved it turns?
Yes
My disappointment in this is only exceeded by my parents disappointment in me.
Disappointed enough to not ask for the files or search for the print. Would have made awesome swirl marks.
This is like the extreme audiophiles thing but to coffee enthusiasts. No, it won't make a noticeable difference other than the placebo effect associated to the additional effort it took to get to the thing you wanted, lol.
Indeed, I love what sounds it makes but was utterly disappointed.
Pitchforks! Getcher pitchforks here! --E --E --E --E
A little?
probably just everyone that watched it
I can't even begin to espresso my disappointment!
Tbh you make a great point lmao. Wish I could edit the video.
It's not too late to add one!
Comments exist and are allowed
I didn't post the end result in this sub once. Mods deleted the whole post because of how worked up and hostile folk were about it!
Get em boys!
I feel so worked up and hostile! Down with this post!
It's working! Pitchforks to the right.
evil indeed
Any video cannot tell you the difference of the taste of the shot pulled with this thing anyway so what is the point to show it?
Having CF filament rubbing and making constant contact like that could likely be depositing tons of microscopic fibers into your coffee.
Yep, I use CF filaments for 98% of my prints. My coffee tools are regular PETG.
After seeing those macro images of a bunch of carbon fiber splinters embedded in someones hand, I'll never use or handle anything CF.
That’s fair, but I think it depends on your use case. I make a lot of automotive and garage / fixture stuff, and the added dimensional stability with CF filaments is so much better.
Ideally you want to seal anything you touch regularly with some epoxy.
Out of curiosity, do you have a preferred epoxy for this type of thing? I'm mainly familiar with West System, which is $$$ for this type of use....
A 70/30 mix of varnish and white sprit also works quite well for sealing prints.
What about doing a harmonic drive type of assembly (also called strain wave gearing), with something like Grafix 0.007 sheet in between if needed?
...the harmonic drive system should produce less rubbing in the first place, but if it does still rub then the Grafix ought to keep things separated.
Lmao. This is just baseless fear. It’s extremely possible to handle safely.
Same reason you avoid kitchen knives?
Kitchen knifes don't shed small splinters of metal handling them..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLt9l6YxvHk
You can handle anything safely, like using gloves. The real problem is people using this filament for every day items they constantly touch because they think it's cool.
Yep, coated or not carbon fiber is going to grind and get in the food.
That’s part of the magic. Society can’t microdose me with plastic. I microdose me with plastic.
Good prototype though. Print it, tweak it, then make it with something food safe instead.
Using the same kind of techniques for creating hobo coins, and desktop laser might be more useful here than a 3D printer. Alternatively, talk to some of the Rolex fakers at the horological markets in Guangzhou. They would be well tooled up for this, and could easily knock out replicas for a fraction of the $300 retail price.
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dont unless you want to feed mama microplastic in her cup of expresso.
Petg clear 100% infill, slight over extrusion and very slow to fill in all the gaps is what I used for my blind shaker
I've been using a similar model made out of PETG for well over a year now, many times per day, and it's holding up great.
It’s plastic gears, rubbing together, uncovered, directly over your beans.
I’m a coffee snob and 3d printing evangelist, but this isn’t the right place for them to cross paths.
I don't believe this is a particularly high risk compared with using all the other plastic objects commonly involved in food prep, but the great thing is that you can simply not do it if you think otherwise.
ASA would be the least bad if you have a heated chamber.
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It's a genetic thing, some people don't find it offensive while others will gag. Realistically anything stiffer than PET-G and a little less brittle than basic PLA wouldn't be horrible. PC would also have good longevity but still needs a heated chamber and isn't always easy to print
This is the one time in in the food safe rage club.. CF is abrasive and is probably shedding from the gear friction.
Our grandpa's got black lungs, we'll get black stomach
filament is stored in the balls
What's up mommy
I thought that was pee 🤔
Sodas are already doing that to be fair
DONT! Use CF Filament with anything close to food....or better dont use cf filaments at all...
Yeah, isnt carbon fiber kinda dangerous to handle? This seems way more problematic than just microplastics
Not directly, but in cf filaments are shredded carbon fiber pieces. To short to bring any benefit to the print strength and short/ light enough to be inhaled. They arent really fixed inside the filament and there are always fiber parts that rub off or are free in the first place. They are like little needels that get embedded everywhere. Not immediately catastrophicly bad but definitely not good. And because the cf strings are to short to bring any benefit, cf filaments only have bad sides and seriously should be prohibited by law. NEVER USE ANY CF-FILAMENT AND DEFINITELY KEEP IT FAR AWAY FROM FOOD. (and if you use it, at least seal it with clearcode)
Definitely recommend to watch: - Part1: https://youtu.be/RLt9l6YxvHk?si=9Ot81QulV0ifAxOR - Part 2: https://youtu.be/ddwNZ12_qX8?si=BuVK-Nvb-yatfMN2
Thank god I didnt order any.. I just double checked the eSUN and SUNLU stuff I have and just ABS, ABS+ and ASA. I checked each individually and think they're fine.
Thanks for the warning!
Question for you: what benefits do ABS+ and ABS have over ASA? From what I've read, it seems like ASA has all the benefits of ABS and less of the drawbacks
Honestly haven't used that filament yet so I can't say for sure. I read that ASA would be better for stuff made for outside and would be more resistant to wear and tear and sun, but I also read that it can mess up during the printing process more often and stick less?
So i mostly use ABS+ because it prints well tbh
I was gonna say dont use stupid distribution tools, but that works too.
PA12-CF is absolutely not food safe. Avoid using that immediately if you care about your health.
I love microscopic plastics in my espresso first thing in the morning
Even better, micro plastics AND small carbon fiber strands!
I'm pretty meh about microplastics being an actual danger but carbon fiber seems like a really bad idea lol
Gotta get them straight into your belly and throat. Much spicier than just on your skin.
I like how the carbon fiber filaments just my poop together better.
Coffee people are weird.
I like a good coffee, but I still don’t understand all these gadgets to stir (?) the coffee grind?
You can do the blind taste to know what effect of this thing has on the coffee shot pulled comparing to not using it. If you can taste the difference, congrats, there is no coming back and you will insist on this “ritual” from now on. (And if you don’t, well, there is no point to discuss this any further.)
Not really all that different than people who obsess about bed levelling or perfecting print quality to the point of spending hours doing aftermarket mods or constantly fine tuning belt tensions, calibrations, and other settings. Or running print temperature towers with every new filament to dial it in to the exact degree instead of just using the general settings that are more than sufficient for 90% of people and their quality preferences.
Every hobby has people who obsess about minute details far beyond the average. They don't represent the entire hobby.
But also, those people are great to have because while most of what they might do offers little benefit and declining returns, every so often they stumble upon a a little nugget that gets picked up by the mainstream and improves things for everyone.
Comparing this to bed levelling is wild lol. If you don't level your bed, your printer will quite literally not work, and if you don't level it well, the result will be at best visible, and at worst structurally compromising.
If you use this goofy stirring gimmick thing on your coffee, absolutely nothing happens whatsoever. Apart from OPs one, which add that special microplasticy zing.
It is almost as bad if you actually can taste the difference. Some people can. Some cannot. Not spreading coffee can cause channelling and it is very different in the result if you have uneven extract (if you can taste it). It is more like those who insist on using a $10,000 headphone. It does make the difference for some. I can and I hate myself.
It is a loose, granular material... Any 'channels' are gone after tamping it down. Seriously, the sunk cost fallacy is in full effect here.
Tamping only make it worse as the water will find the path of least resistance (especially for high pressure like this) and so make any uneven ground a channel. Any competence barista in the world can confirm this.
“Sunk cost fallacy” has nothing to do with this. You can just do as OP which will cost less than $1 in filament & needles and still improve your coffee a lot. No one mention you have to spend any cost in this.
Jesus... None of it is uneven BECAUSE it is compressed.
Let me give you an example; sand is very often used as a construction base for large projects. They need to do everything possible in order to ensure that it is evenly distributed, not for the sake of extremely marginally subjectively better coffee, but for the sake of the hundreds of lives that will depend on that building not falling down. Do they 'stir' it? No. They compact it.
Coffee has nothing to do with sand. And even so, compressed sand is uneven in microscopic scale, which is pretty much irrelevant for construction projects. But microscopic scale has everything to do for coffee pull. I won’t argue about construction projects but you clearly are not a barista or surely seems to not be a competent one.
Incorrect. You think it does because the people selling you expensive gimmicks have convinced you it is. But it just isn't.
It's amazing how some people are unable to separate the psychology of subjectivity when they get so unbelievably raked into their special interests.
Of course you can prove me entirely wrong by providing some kind of scientific measure of all this if you feel like it. I get the feeling you'll struggle though.
That is actually a good comparison but it is incorrect. The sand layer is precisely leveled prior to tamping. One may even use a landscaping rake with similar effect to this. Tamping does not evenly distribute the material. If you start with a big mound in the middle and tamp down the coffee, then you end up with some of it being more dense and tightly packed.
Nope. You level it by compacting it evenly. Precisely like how baristas have been leveling and compacting coffee with the tamper for more than a century.
I'm talking about the people to do all the after market mods like the nylock and silicon tube mod and stressing over 0.1mm difference over the entire length of the bed on modern printers that have bed level detection and auto compensation.
Yeah, that's making about as much difference in the final product as this print is to your shot of espresso by making sure the grounds are perfectly distributed for even extraction.
Actually, as someone who knows both 3d printing and espresso pretty well, this is pretty much a perfect comparison. Bed level matters, and so does making sure the grounds are evenly distributed, but there are declining returns where it stops making a perceptible difference in the end product for 99% of people.
Again, don't level bed; no print, whatsoever. Completely broken.
Use this stirrer; literally no change whatsoever. You still get coffee that tastes exactly the same.
Awful, awful comparison.
Not spreading equally -> bad coffee. You might as well drink instant coffee at this point if you cannot know the difference.
It is a loose media dude... I hope you stir your water as well.
I do prepare my own water when it comes to coffee making and that of course involving stirring it when mixing with mineral powder, for obvious reasons. Water is the second most important ingredient for coffee as 98% of coffee is water. You are welcome.
Took the words right out of my mouth
I would love to see the workmanship this little device produces. Nice work on the design and print
Sooooo any chance you drop the files? Also is this for a 54 mm porta filter?
There are various of this concept available on printable.com. Search for umikot or espresso.
What’s the point of the needles?
The coffee grounds can clump up causing inconsistencies in the puck. If the coffee grounds are not perfectly even there's a chance the water can find a channel which will over extract the coffee that flows through and can ruin the Brew. Perfectly even grounds cause the water to flow evenly through the whole puck and get a better extraction
They stir the coffee grounds
Absolutely don't use the PA-CF. It will drop little shards of CF into your grounds.
Is it just me or does it seem like they're a large parts of the puck that are not covered
These tools have been proven to be pretty useless at actually declumping. Way better to do it manually, and even better still to just shake it.
Shaking entirely depends on your beans, grind, and humidity. Many of those shaker method actuall looked better, but led to tiny spherical clumping that had worse performance in some cases.
I don't know espresso making well enough. What's the point of making a pattern in the grounds?
It's not the pattern, it's about breaking up any large clumps as those might affect the taste.
And what point does that serve with your coffee...?
This feels extravagant but also whimsical and elegant.
Is this for a 54mm group head?
Why would you even use CF for this? The fibers will just get sheared away with friction
Ground plastic alone wasn't spicy enough for the coffee.
You dont like the Umikot? Its amazing and can spin super fast back and forth.
Mmm I love the taste of microplastic in my morning brew!
No but seriously, it's a nice proof of concept but please don't use it for your actual coffee.
It's carbon fiber so it's even worse apparently
You get more microplastics from water bottle and packaged food than you do from a coffee grinder. Relax.
Grinding plastic into your coffee, nice.
This is quite next level.. don’t you press it afterwards? I mean I love my coffee in the morning but unless your italian this is…. Next level 🤣
Pretty common among espresso aficionados these days.
Ironically, this particular tool is less relevant for Italian-sytle drinks (darker roasts, lower extraction). This comes into play at the other end of the coffee spectrum where people are paying ~1-2$/cup at home just for the beans. The intention with devices like this, and much less fancy ones, is to get more consistency because shit is expensive and another 10 seconds to make sure it comes out properly is a good trade to lots of people.
This. Plus a lot of us at home don't have state of the art grinders. The tool here helps combat these challenges and create consistency.
It is pressed afterwards but at the pressures needed for an espresso, clumps before espresso can be the difference between a wonderful espresso and a horrible, flavorless and sour bean soup 😅
One issue is "channeling" where the water finds a weak spot in the pressed puck and it goes all grand canyon at that spot instead of going through everything evenly.
One guy, James Hoffman, even put different prep techniques into a CT scanner with X-Rays to compare their differences 😅
Sorry but this is audiophile territory of ridiculousness 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I mean sure, bad quality beans or a cheap machine can make a huge difference and the right amount + properly pressing it is important.. but you can’t tell me you’re drinking crap if you did the first 4 steps but there was a ‘channel’ giving you flavorless sour bean soup’
That’s like the importance of special cable risers so your audio cables don’t touch the ground or special usb ‘power filters’ and gold plated monster cables 🤣🤣🤣
(Oh man, i’m sturing some hornets nests… glad to have known you all)
I think it's fair to compare the “1%” of any hobby to audiophiles. If you pursue something long enough, you naturally chase high-effort, low-reward tweaks as you've done everything else.
I think where that stops being a fair comparison is cases like this where there are objective, measurable differences. Adjusting controlled variables and consistently seeing measurable results feels different from chasing imperceptible or subjective changes.
"Would I notice?" feels less relevant than, "Could anyone notice?".
Channeling can mean the difference between a complete extraction across the whole puck and an overextracted section near the channel with the rest of the puck under extracted. Overextraction makes gross, sour espresso and underextraction contributes little to no flavor so it's not hyperbole to say that a bad channel makes "horrible, flavorless and sour bean soup."
The average channel might not be so bad but at 20g of coffee per shot it's less about diminishing returns like with 'high-end audio' and more about minimizing waste in both coffee and your own time.
Coffee people engage in some very silly levels of make believe
There's a big difference here from the audiophile comparison to be honest. A WDT will create consistency every time you are pulling a shot and it's just one additional step in the workflow. If you are buying really high quality beans, it's a cheap way of ensuring you are making the most of them.
Additionally, if you are using a bottomless portafilter, channeling will create a mess and spray coffee everywhere. So it goes beyond taste.
Sure, it might sound extreme, but it's not as extreme as you have pictured.
I go to plenty of nice coffee shops and they pull espresso all day (likely better than you) without the gimmick. It’s 100% audiophile territory
tl;dr: WDT has measurably improved consistency and extraction
Not to come down on the side of audiophiles, buuuuut... at the most meticulous end of coffee, home coffee making (definitely "pretentious" to some) is different than coffee shops. The equipment is different, the processes are different, and the demands are different.
WDT does something practical and measurable (much like audiophiles, coffee people go to ridiculous lengths to justify things). I would agree that the differences are subtle, more or less relevant depending on drinks and techniques, but that doesn't discredit that it does something tangible.
E.g. https://coffeeadastra.com/2022/07/16/more-even-espresso-extractions/ goes in to far too much depth. A few others have done similar experiments. I get that it's not for everybody.
Oh so the home coffee enthusiast is a better source than the professional that people want coffee from. Just like the guy with “directional” speaker cables knows more than the guy who mixed the music they’re playing.
You say that like its ridiculous, but that's absolutely the case (for coffee at least, I don't know anything about audio gear)? The link I shared is not what your local coffee shop is doing (I'm assuming). These are different products for different markets. Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is a "good coffee" vs. "bad coffee" thing - it's entirely personal preference and WDT tools address a niche within a niche.
The passionate espresso enthusiast space is vastly more knowledgeable than almost every barista at almost every coffee shop on this front. The home barista would do terribly at rush hour volumes. You have to go pretty upscale just to get to the point of baristas even tasting what they're making and adjusting their grind to suit - this is a step beyond that.
You must live somewhere with bad coffee shops. I promise you the avg home espresso nut would get walked by the baristas I pay for coffee
... to give you what you're looking for though, right? 100% agree coffee culture is radically different city to city. That said, I have literally never found a coffee shop in the wild that has done a light roast, let alone a light roast well. Often the owner of a specialty independent coffee shop is in that space, but for every owner there are 5-20 non-owners who are often significantly less invested.
It's totally possible you have an amazing pool of coffee around you, outside of major metropolitan areas I think the more relatable experience is shops that don't bother cleaning their machines, forget baristas training and refining their technique.
Can you recommend somewhere you think delivers? I love coffee, if you're having these amazing cups I'm always keen to get recommendations for places.
Edit: I assume I've been blocked, so I can't reply to your parting message. WDT is a practical technique that produces tangible results. It's more relevant for home enthusiasts and I don't think needs to be compared to professional shops to justify its value.
I can see how my comments would be condescending/gate-keepy - if you'd believe it I genuinely tried to avoid that. At the same time, LA is probably one of the top 10 or even top 5 third-wave coffee spots in North America, which definitely changes the frame of reference. I think most people outside Portland/Vancouver/New York/Toronto/LA have very different experiences on accessibility of third-wave coffee. I wasn't trying to be a snob - that's genuinely not available in my market, and because it's a niche Google reviews when traveling often don't cut it.
youre definitely underestimating the market here. Many of us have better machines, grinder, water, than most of the coffee shops in any big city. The WDT method is entirely a choice that some make, and i've seen it used in many coffee shops around the world, but when it comes down to it, they are going for speed over that little bit of extra quality, so most will not do that. Also most of the larger hopper style grinders with have distribution tools built in so they do it as they fill the portafilter.
With that said, every small coffee shop that starts out focused on coffee quality will inevitibly have to start focusing on consistency and speed. Most of us have seen many companies that started as a single shop become fully corporatized and whats left is closer to starbucks in the 90s than a real coffee shop. Like Intelligentsia.
Most don’t because of the line they have, in a rush is never better.
I get how ridiculous that sounds but if it helps, I can show you the difference on my machine 😄
It's - in this case - less about imperceptible things for anyone outside the makebelieve sphere but more like one having proper 8-9 bar pressure and taking 30-40 seconds and the other not going above 3-4 and just rushing through in 15 seconds 😄
Sometimes the journey brings as much satisfaction as the destination.
Sometimes it even makes the destination more satisfying.
I think thats the part people don't get.
If that was the response I would have surely bought it… i mean here I am trying to 100% donkey kong bananza as I did Mario Odyssey and many games before… many people don’t get my completionist mind…
OP doing his thing is amazing, I just don’t but the explanation beyond it hahaha. It might taste better why not, even if it’s only from the work put in… but saying that if OP doesn’t do it the coffee is even worse than that of an understaffed Starbucks is a long stretch to me 🤣
Ah, its sort of like the difference between oj from the bottle and fresh squeezed oj. Or like, powdered hot chocolate vs steamed and mixed with real chocolate...
As someone who has both worked at Starbucks (one that was critically understaffed) and who now owns a breville (maybe like the bose equivalent to the audiophile reference. Decent, but by no means insane levels)
Starbucks has these massive espresso machines with essentially one setting, and they're all set to the same thing. They're not really dialed in, and it generally burns the beans. Then you have the understaffed portion, so your burned espresso just sits there in the cup, waiting on someone to pour milk into it, essentially continuing to cook.
Theres a little bit of the journey allegory, but there's also an aspect of care and process. You are doing all the things the understaffed Starbucks worker isnt trained to do, doesn't care to do, nor gets paid enough to want to do.
All of these little things like the device OP printed... prob are nominal 2-5% gains at most, each. But when you do all of them and increase the coffee profile by 15-20% you start to taste the difference. Individually, OPs device, absolutely wouldn't notice.
Just like if you finished Mario Odyssey at 78% vs 80%... no one would really notice or care.. . But if you didnt 100% it, would you be satisfied? Now that you've tasted 100% on Mario Odyssey.. can you just let DK Bananza go unfinished like that?
Prob not... and then it becomes a pursuit of something greater.
No further comment except: thanks for this great response! This makes sense ;-)
Glad we also all agree audiophiles are just insane 🫣
No one would criticize it if someone just said it's a ritual they enjoy with no functional purpose. The criticism comes from claiming that voodoo changes anything. The comparison to audiophiles seems apt.
(Note that I have no knowledge of the utility of a device like OP's - just responding to the "it's the journey" sentiment.)
hey man, this is all analog, if it were digital espresso you may have an actual point.
Oh man I hate digital espresso.
That's an amazing job of solving a problem that doesn't exist. Just pour coffee grounds in and give it a tap.
That one pin sitting there... menacingly
While I don’t like whoever scream “PLASTIC” whenever it involves food, using CF for this is the opposite of suitable. You will grind carbon fiber to your coffee. I will use PETG if possible. Buying a whole spool is probably still cheaper than buying one of these thing anyway and I like your print (except for the use of CF).
You're using carbon fiber filament for something that will be near or in contact with food?
You sir are quite mad
But I love it this is amazing!
You guys are grinding beans with coated gears and running hot water through ptfe daily, but yes let’s shit on this while we’re at it.
Stop using 3d prints with food. So stupid and unsafe
Calm down. It's dry coffee grounds, which mostly only touches the needles
And the needles are under the parts under friction which contain not only plastic plus carbon fibers. This is really unsafe
Jesus take a chill pill. "Really unsafe" is incredibly hyperbolic. Not everyone is a hypochondriac like you. And there is absolutely no need to be concerned the way you are being.
Blocked because people dont have time for worry warts spreading unfounded fears.
Nooo that's the wrong gear ratio, and are you incapable of telling the difference between coffee stirred with stainless and coffee stirred with glass?! Gosh! /s
I mean I've got a decent sense for tasting the slightest differences between foods, but this seems excessive to the point of performative... Assuming you're using fresh grinds that are loose already... You ARE using fresh grinds right?
Mmm, carbon fiber coffee.
Seriously though people, stop using 3d printing for food without a food safe filament.
Do you consider the pa12-cf particles in your coffee to be seasoning?
tis the season to season your grounds with microplastic
Weed people and coffee people amaze me. There is no end to the mcguyvering
Espresso drinkers are a certain sort