I understand why the “rules” are in place (however stupid they may be). However, $600 for my truck being in the road for a week???
Trucks transmission cable snapped and was limped home and was unable to be put into the backyard until the new one arrived (being unemployed at the time didn’t help either).
First time I heard of a notice from the landlord. Greedy mf’s definitely would love to charge during the holidays.
HOA’s need to be deleted from the face of the earth and f#ck the snitches who believe in them.
In AZ they passed a law a while back that HOAs cant fine you for parking on the street any more. Only if its a gated community and even then its only under specific conditions. I would look the law up and double check. Depending on exactly what your situation is they might not be able to do that
That makes sense. It’s ridiculous that HOA can govern what happens on public roadways.
It's also ridiculous that HOAs can impoverish you over matters of personal taste. I endured a Phoenix HOA for a short but miserable period of my life. They thought cars parked on the street looked "messy". The streets in that community were wide enough that two cars moving in opposite directions could pass one another even if cars were parked on the road. They themselves admitted it was about the "look" of the street. My mother was the same way. That kind of thinking combined with this level of punitive action makes me want to lose my lunch.
I agree. My first house was in an HOA community. They were relatively lenient but I did get the occasional letter about having our boat on the driveway for more than 24-hrs. Then, Hurricane Charley ripped off half my roof and the HOA got mad that I hired someone to do a new roof without awaiting their approval. I told them to pound sound…I had a gaping hole in my roof and increasing water damage with two more storms that followed closely behind. When we bought our next home, we intentionally sought a property that was outside of a deed restricted community. Never again will I live in an HOA community!
You want ridiculous? Look up a Super Lien. HOA can straight steal a house from you AND the bank.
This is why HOA's exist my friend. It's literally to block out people of certian financial means. People who may be able to afford the house by itself, but can't if it comes with exorbinant HOA fee's and fines.
It's as ridiculous that HOAs feel they have the right to tell you what you can or can't do on your property. And if you don't comply they'll confiscate/steal your property . Sounds like extortion to me.
in some cases the roadways in an hoa subdivision belong to the hoa and are maintained the same as any other communal property.
It’s still enforceable if the docs were made before the law as states can’t constitutionally negate contractual obligations.
Still, it's a public roadway ?! How can the HOA dictate what happens on the public roadway?!
In certain circumstances when the municipality turns over control and all associated maintenance and upkeep of the roads to the HOA, that HOA unfortunately can dictate what happens on that road.
Numerous parties to blame here. Towns/municipalities/cities are happy to get streets privatized by HOAs, because they don't have to pay to have them plowed or repaved or repaired. All anyone cares about is saving themselves a few bucks - how that affects homeowners is something they couldn't care less about.
Our city leadership is at least starting to debate if HOAs doing all the stuff usually public is a good idea. They are weighing on in on the fairness that older neighborhoods are getting tax dollars and new are not while both pay the same rates. They are also deciding if it is a good idea because the HOA board doesn’t have the skills at hand the city will to know how to do things right and builders are not meeting city standards. If it gets messed up hundreds of homes if not a thousand or more could end up depressed in value and that means less tax dollars.
I think we will start to see the pendulum swing back at least in our city. All new neighborhoods the city is at least doing roads, water, and sewer now. They have even entertained the idea the neighborhood gets to their standard and then they take it over.
That’s good to hear…and a step in the right direction, in my opinion. I honestly never really thought about the tax equity in this and considered these private neighborhoods to be a sacrifice of choice. Or, like school taxes or assessment fees that we all pay for the greater good, whether we have kids or not. It makes a lot of sense to look at property taxes from an equity standpoint - and to consider the potentials for failures with unqualified people at the helm of these HOAs. I’ve seen some real horror stories in this sub…with homeowners getting the short end of the stick paying for fixes on things HOA’s did incorrectly…or failed to do at all.
That's amazing progress - I've not heard of any other city undertaking this debate. Maybe there's hope.
I just saw this today…
https://www.wftv.com/news/florida/proposal-could-end-dysfunctional-florida-hoas-push-accountability/RYV7FQ2SNNADTJTMSSAZQ2DC5Q/?fbclid=IwQ0xDSwOmwq1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEepPDpwjvFGq8KUFX9C4rq8JkOmPgbsXL4brHC3VtIL-MWQXdhFxR09QNGTTk_aem_XYGBfJA5FEv4JkfF8nA5xg
That thing is dangerous bullshit though and just going to send people into litigation. It makes absent votes by default yes votes.
That’s completely understandable. At that point, they’re more like private roads than public.
Did you know NDAs restrict your freedom of speech? It’s a contract you entered willingly, that’s how.
You can not like both but that’s the way it is and you don’t want the government fucking with contracts. There is a reason the founding fathers made it one the very few specific no nos in the constitution. How would feel if you did a job, got paid, and a rich fuck used the government to claw some of it back by changing your contract?
Fair enough, guess it's on the renters to read the T&Cs
They absolutely can negate contracts after the fact.
Lots of HOAs banned people of color in the deed. Thats no longer valid. Bans on flags are no longer valid.
Wrong, they didn’t negate them after the fact. They negated them by saying the violated the law and constitution from the start and were never legally binding. Go read the constitution federally. It’s very clear, with plain language. They cannot.
ALSO, it says states cannot but nothing about federal level I believe.
The flag law was just recently passed and has nothing to do with a court deciding that such restrictions are unconstitutional. It’s just a law that negated deed restrictions after the fact.
And state courts are bound by the constitution as well. It happens all the time in criminal cases. Evidence is dismissed for violating the bill of rights. Very common
Sure they can. They did it here in California. They did it with all those places that had laws against blacks buying into neighborhoods. And on top of that it's a public street, they can do whatever they want to regulate it and the HOA has to go pound sand. I don't know where you get the idea that states can't negate contract terms but you are flat out wrong.
I get the enforceability of the contract because that’s between the HOA and homeowner. It’s just wild to me that HOAs are allowed to regulate what happens on public roads.
It's probably not a public roadway. When a development gets built, the roads are built by the developer. They're just fancy driveways. Depending on what happens later, they *might* be turned over the town or city, but they might not as well.
That’s not how development works…at least not anywhere that I’ve lived and worked. There are private developments, of course, that are designed and approved as such. Most developments, however, are built by the developer to local design standards and then ownership is turned over to the city/county/township for the ongoing maintenance, which is funded by property taxes. Likewise, if that development creates significant traffic impacts on the public road leading to the development, the developer will be required to incorporate or fund the improvements needed to address the impact, such as adding a turn lane, a median break, or a traffic signal.
I'm in Texas. Our HOA doesn't own the roads, they're owned by the MUD -- municipal utility district -- created at the same time and run by the same people; though board seats are elected, IME they end up like HOA elections.
They're technically a local government entity, but other than getting their money from property taxes on the neighborhood residents, they don't operate anything like a government organization.
ETA: I don't know about elsewhere, but here in Texas there are almost no developments that aren't configured with both HOA and MUD. My local town requires it for permit approval so they don't have to raise taxes to support expansion in the ETJ.
Well, you're wrong. HOAs can absolutely own all roadways within a community and are maintained by the HOA. The apron to the neighborhood would be publicly owned, which would cover any turn lanes or signals. Typically, anything after the gate is HOA-owned.
I’m not wrong. I didn’t say HOAs can’t own roads. The second sentence of my response clearly says there are private communities that are designed specifically for that.
I said that’s not the norm. Not all HOA communities are gated (a common feature of a private community) but even some gated communities still have public roadways within the community. It’s controversial, but it happens. The vast major of neighborhoods and HOA communities are wide open to the public and all roads within are public roadways.
lived in multiple hoa communities-non-gated-the roadways were publicly accessible, however they were owned and maintained by the hoa, this also included snow removal in the winter. The last hoa i lived in was voted into the city limits so our trash collection is paid for by the city taxes we pay but the roads are owned and maintained by the hoa and are considered private property-owned by the hoa. This is why in some cases the hoa cant be dissolved because then it leaves communal property without an owner to maintain it. the only way to dissolve it would be by the municipality to take ownership and they typically dont want to do that as it creates more expenses for them. that being said the hoa is owned collectively by the members of said association, if the members want to to change the rules then they should attend the meetings and vote to have the rules changed.
Yep, there are a variety of ownership/maintenance agreements across the country. It’s very interesting to see how diverse they can be in responsibility and to think about some of the liabilities that come with each.
This may be true where you live. I don't doubt that, but it is not like that in MANY states. In many states, the HOA owns all the streets in the community.
I’ve literally dealt with site development across many states. Public ownership of the roads within an HOA community is far more prevalent than you might think. The difference is most people probably don’t even realize some of these communities are HOAs.
Again, everything you are saying might be true some places, but there are places it is not. In my state, the HOA's own the streets everywhere I have lived. There are no gates. Police can't and won't even write tickets on anything that happens there as they fall under the HOA.
Just foundthis article about hoa parking
The rule started Dec 31 2014, it would have to be in the bylaws before that. But seems they probably need to give reasonable warnings and have posted signs.
Seems the landlord got the notice but didn't let him know until the final notice?
It was passed in 2015, but allowed HOAs who had such rules prior to 2015 to grandfather them in.
https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/56leg/1R/summary/H.HB2298_033123_SENATEENGROSSED.pdf
Oh man I’m petty enough that I would park all my cars on the street just to taunt the HOA if I knew it was legal to do so. BUT this is also why I’m in a non-HOA neighborhood
Yes new hoa’s can’t restrict on street parking but those that had the restrictions prior to the law change were grandfathered in.
It's still enforceable unfortunately if there was language in the ccnr before the new law. We had to put it up for a vote to "overturn" the old rule, which requires 2/3rd vote. Since about 70% of the houses are rental propertys that never vote it did not pass in our HoA.
There is grain of truth in your claims about AZ law versus what the actual law is
You may be onto something, however, if it’s explicitly laid out in the rules that were agreed to, you’re being fined for not following the rules, not specifically what’s legal or not per the municipality owning the road.
Not if that rule was outlawed
Actually no lol. The Law supersedes HOA bylaws.. regardless of you signed it or not.
And, if you read the law, you would see that there is a grandfather date. lol.
And? I wrote that in my other comment. Unless you know when they wrote that specific rule in the bylaws, you dont know if its grandfathered in or not
OK, so violation happens Dec 3-5, but you get a final notice 12-8?
Check those by-laws for a timeframe to correct violations.
Also, watch your vehicle. They may tow it.
Our HOA went through this with another property owner in our neighborhood. They were parking a commercial business vehicle on the street overnight. The property owner stood their ground. Turns out that because the county maintains the roads in the neighborhood, the HOA can’t do anything more than suggest where to park. That property owner suggested that the HOA board fuck themselves. Now, there are many many commercial vehicles parked on the streets overnight.
Had something similar happen to us. Neighborhood was already light on street parking as it was. One guy challenged the HOA on commercial vehicles and won. Now there are days when you have to park up to 30-40 houses away and walk to your home because of the number of commercial vehicles in the neighborhood. Driving down particular streets is a nightmare, and I have no clue how anyone does it. We also now have two guys with their 18-wheeler cabs. Sometimes being right can just be wrong lol.
This would turn on a full Soprano mode for me. Not suggesting any violence but that series had some good tips on dealing with pathetic people.
Well I'm glad I'm not the only one.
Reading this and I was like "there's no way I can post what I want to say about this"
The new phrase I learned here is that people are really missing the Kinetic education for some things. 😂 Sad for OP. Stupid rule too, why would you park on the street if you have room on your driveway.
I love the Kinetic education and am now a thief cuz I am stealing this.
That's how I got it 😊
Agreed - hence why I will never live in a HOA. There are zero benefits in paying someone to tell you what you can/can’t do with your own property.
"Landlord"?
So not you fined, the LL. It matters. Of course non compliance would lead to eviction so pick your battles I guess.
Check who actually owns the street. If it's city owned, call up bylaw. They'll whip the hoa into line.
Yeah, it sucks because the renter had no authority to fight the HOA. And a landlord has far less incentive to fight the HOA since, in most cases, they will just pass the fee on to the renter.
Dunno about Arizona and what kind of neighborhood it is, but in Texas the street is public property so they can go fuck themselves. They have no jurisdiction no matter how many rules they wanna write up.
This goes from HOA to HOA, on who owns the property the streets are on. If the streets are owned by the municipality, then that organization has authority on parking. If the HOA does, then it's their authority. Check with the city or county on who has it.
Yeah that’s what I meant by what kind of neighborhood it is. Could be a condo complex or something where the “street” is private property. In Texas neighborhoods most streets are run by MUDs or PIDs.
I don't know about your MUD, but practically speaking, mine is just an extension of the HOA. The board is almost the same for both; the only difference is we already have a resident on the MUD board and the HOA board is still all employees of the developer.
But if you agreed not to park on the street, they’re simply fining you for not adhering to the rules you agreed to.
My HOA in Georgia 100% owns the streets. I’m reminded every-time we get bills for repairs.
Arizona permitted HOAs up to 2015 to regulate public street parking. A new law was passed in 2015 to prohibit that, but allowed HOAs with existing laws to be grandfathered in if the HOA chose. https://www.azleg.gov/legtext/56leg/1R/summary/H.HB2298_033123_SENATEENGROSSED.pdf
I would check your ccr’s, bylaws etc., there may be some verbiage about them have to having a hearing before any fines can be levied and limitation on how much they can fine you. Additionally, there may be state law to see what the law states. If they should be having hearings, I would put the word out to neighbors in case they’ve been scapegoated as well.
You need to find 10-20 redditors in your area to come park their cars on your street for a few nights.
100$ on 2 days doesn't equal 600$
Escalating fines, per the notice, but it’s definitely not laid out in the notice.
They can't escalate without notification. Is this your first time?
Public Roadways - This was one of the things I changed when I got involved in my HOA. Stopped this practice of controlling street parking.
How do they know it's your vehicle?
HOAs probably don't need to worry about that at first. It's a contractual matter, not criminal so they can just charge a fee to the household and let them try to prove that the vehicle wasn't theirs.
A lot of HOA roads are private, especially gated community ones. Tough rules, especially as single family occupancy grows and the number of cars increase per household. Probably need to move where no such rules exist or look into the path of have new rules adopted.
If the road is public property, and you are not in a gated community, they have no authority to fine you for its use. Lawyer up.
First thing is pore over your lease and see if the landlord put the community rules in as an attachment and if there’s language in there saying fines will be kicked down.
If the landlord is smart they will have done this, but if not then they can’t make you pay. You have no contract with the HOA.
I gotta say, EVERY ENTITY ON EARTH is greedy right now. First it was a $500 power bill, now my car is screaming for a new battery. The $1500.00 in lawyer fees was already crippling this widow with 2 kids.
Did they give you a rule book? Or were you supposed to know this via OSMOSIS. The damn fees fighting it in court wouldn't be worth the trouble.
I'm sofaking petty. I'd send them a certified letter stating they have 24 hours from the start if your infraction to notify you of the infraction and any fees you might be charged, or any recourse or fees demanded would be null and void.
But I'm Petty McPettyson.
With all that money coming in, maybe they can hire a proofreader for the author of this letter, who seems to rely a little too heavily on copy & paste.
OP, this is one you can fight back against.
If it's a public road, not a private road, then you don't even need a lawyer to fight back: just sic City Hall on 'em.
I know you're in AZ, but I think it's the same in AZ as in CO. Some HOAs in CO were trying to enforce parking rules on city streets. Then one city came down on one HOA in particular, like the proverbial ton of bricks. In a nutshell, they told the HOA "Hey, those are OUR streets, not YOURS. You don't get to tell people what to do on them, that's our job. And you DEFINITELY don't get to collect fines for what happens on city streets. That's theft or embezzlement or fraud or a criminal act with serious consequences."
That one ruling effectively nullified all of the on-street parking rules HOAs had set up and were trying to enforce. It sounds like Chandler AZ needs to do the same thing to your HOA.
Did they put notice on your car after the first day?? If not, it seems ridiculous to try and fine you for a week's worth without any notice after the fact....
What happened to the first two notices?
Sounds like you are a renter. What does your lease say about HOA violations?
If your lease doesn’t say your landlord can pass the fines through to you… They can’t. And if the lease does say that they can pass the fines through… It probably also says that your landlord has to share violation notices with you.
I don't even like visiting other people who live in an HOA. The neighbors were all Karens. I sure as hell would never live in one.
Does the hoa actually own the street? If they are a public street you can just tell them to fuck off as your car is outside hoa property.
That is just absurd and yes very greedy
Yeah, problem is they can literally foreclose on your house to collect the fine, plus attorneys fees.
Or more realistically they will put a lien against the house and take it from you eventually when you sell.
Third notice for something that happened 3 days ago? That ain't right.
So the road ways are managed by the HOA? Not the city of Phoenix?
beware pushing the issue that the city owns the road if the vehicle isnt able to be operated.... its generally illegal to park them on roads....
You could email them, apologize and tell them that it was a one time situation and the vehicle broke down and it has been moved and ask for a one time courtesy to waive the fee. It doesn’t hurt to ask. I would also ask if they would ensure you receive notices as well so you are aware of any issues,
I had a similar issue with HOA. I will never purchase in an HOA. I rent and I dont really get to choose where, its a math problem. I look at where im allowed to live per my income and dog and cars, then I choose the least crackhouse home. I dont get to want.
how did two $100 violations turn into $600?
If your landlord didn’t notify you until it was already a 3rd offence, that’s on them. I’d inform them (landlord) you weren’t given the opportunity to fix the offence after the first, so you shouldn’t be responsible for anything after the first letter as the problem is corrected
See below--the law is very specific that the HOA must have held a meeting with a quorum of owners before 6/30/2025. Check your minutes and whether they followed this instructions
States that an HOA, after the period of declarant control, whose declaration was recorded before January 1, 2015, and that regulates any roadway owned or held by a governmental entity continues to be in effect until either: a) The HOA calls a meeting, no later than June 30, 2025, to continue to regulate public roadways and agrees to continue regulating public roadways in which case the HOA will retain its authority; or b) If the HOA holds a vote and it fails or the HOA does not hold a vote, the HOA will no longer have the authority to regulate public roadways and any existing regulations will expire. (Sec. 1) 2. Specifies that a quorum of owners present at the public meeting is required to vote to continue the regulation of public roadways. (Sec. 1) 3. Directs the Board to record a document in the Office of the County Recorder confirming that the HOA continues to regulate the public roadways if applicable. (Sec. 1) 4. Amends the applicability date from December 31, 2014, to January 1, 2015. (Sec.1)
$600 seems very excessive.
These types of things aren't exclusive to HOAs. There's an entire city near where I live that bans parking on streets between the hours of 2 and 6am. Not sure what the fines are though. Their reasoning is that they don't want people holding on to cars they don't use (usually junkers), people sleeping in RVs, people leaving boats parked for long stretches of time, etc.
If you parked on a public street outside of the homeowners association, then they can go pound sand because they don’t have any jurisdiction. If you parked on the street within the HOA then it is what it is.
Stuff like this is the reason why people build Killdozers...lol
What if you said it’s not a vehicle associated with your house. I got a letter from my HOA about a vehicle in front of my house but it honestly wasn’t my vehicle or someone that is visiting me. I wrote them back and they left me alone.
Is this the freedom America cries about 24/7
Now how about a stupid employer who want the work car back, someone else wanted the car after I cleaned and double wax it, and in the shop for multiple major repairs, the car was dismantled waiting on parts under the car warranty and they wanted it yesterday. I got a tow truck, picked it up from the dealer, and dumped it in the company parking lot as demanded. The company was mad as heck, but I was only following dump and very stupid instructions when they knew the car was at the dealer for major repairs. The company did try to give the car to another employee who had demanded it, and he blew up and called corporate. Now the joke, this guy had wreck two company cars, and his personal car in less then 2 months. All 3 accidents was his fault. Why would any company give him another company car?
They are all piece of shit commies who were beat up for their lunch money as kids and now feel they have power! Florida is about to pass a law to handcuff them! Can’t wait for it to pass!
They can't mess with you after you string em up just sayin
In my neighborhood, street parking is prohibited because the streets aren’t wide enough to allow it. If you park on the street, emergency vehicles can’t fit past.
Agree. That’s petty. They should have asked if you needed help before being jerks!
The thing is, you read the contract, and agreed. You should pay the fine, and move the Fukk out immediately.
HOAs are the worst but no street parking is one rule I can actually support. I once lived in a neighborhood with open street parking and it was awful. Cars were parked up and down both sides of every street leaving the width of just one lane. When two cars were going in opposite directions, one would have to pull over into a driveway to let the other pass. It was madness.
https://preview.redd.it/csbs8iqt1t6g1.jpeg?width=1277&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a6ad744adf3e0ea0da4dd594b325a6e0be61131e
How do they know it's your car? How do they know it was there overnight that whole time and that it wasn't someone visiting every night around the same time the HOA person drove by to inspect the neighborhood? Do they even say what exactly what time cars need to be off the street?
This is what you do. BEFORE YOU MOVE THERE, READ THE RULES. if you don’t agree with the rules, do not move there. Problem solved. Don’t move in and start violating the rules and then gripe when you get called out for it.
I love my HOA and we have a time to rectify issues, they don’t levy until after the time to correct issues up
Nil that’s wild, like how they expect you to pay for stuff like that, fr shady
So you knew of a rule, violated it and are now pissed because as the rules stipulate you were fined? Stupid idea but maybe act like an adult, contact the management company and let them know that you are now aware of the parking policy, you previously overlooked and you would like to pay the original fine of $100 and would like the remaining repeat fines reversed. Or continue to be a petulant child and post on Reddit Got it.
Chances are, you drove through that neighborhood and said "wow, what a nice neighborhood. I like that people aren't parked in the street."
Don't park in the street. Not a fan? Don't buy in an HOA.
How else can they get you to comply other than fining you - and fining you more?
I have never heard someone comment on the lack of cars on a street, but I have said "these roads are so wide that you can park on both sides and still have room for 2-way traffic". Also, would have to move 30 miles away to find a home that isn't part of an HOA.
Street parking and HOAs aren't mutually exclusive and it's warranted for OP to be frustrated
If he read the C&R before moving in, there's nothing to be frustrated or surprised about.
And my statement about parking on the street is just part of it.
People drive into an HOA, see well-maintained homes, cars not parked on the grass, houses not painted hot pink or neon green, garbage cans not left out at the curb for a week, boats and RVs not parked in the driveway, lawns adequately maintained... and say "Wow, what a nice looking neighborhood. I could see myself living here!"
They buy a house there, neglect to read the C&R, then proceed to park their cars in the street, paint their homes hot pink, leave their garbage out, park boats and RVs on the front lawn, poorly maintain their property, if at all... and then wonder why they are getting violation letters.
I've lived in an HOA for years. I can't tell you how often those two previous paragraphs sum up people. Mind you, I'm not saying someone can't have a well-maintained house and property outside of an HOA. Of course they can. Some people need it to be enforced. And if you don't live in an HOA, there's absolutely no recourse for your neighbor doing any of these things.
Get on your board and change the rules. Don’t be a pussy and bitch on a keyboard
Don't call, send snail mail. Pay their fines keep the recipts, and pay stubs.
Keep the receipts on the vehicle repairs, and when the time comes, send copies of the whole smash, including the initial letter, to both the board and the management company. Make it clear you wish for a refund due to conditions beyond your control.
Let them argue about it on who pays.
In 3 months time, and no response, send the whole smash to the public advocate at a local news station. Let them sweat it out.
This is terrible advice