When I read this passage, I laughed out loud. For all the madness that possessed Aerys, the smallfolk genuinely believed that he would have never permitted a war as deadly as the WOT5K to happen and the devastation that accompanied it by the Lannisters. It shows that there is discontent with the Baratheons/Lannisters among the people and the Targaryen return is longed for. What do you think?
Aerys madness wasn’t well known among the smallfolk, and even if it was- him yelling at walls or whatever makes no difference to them. When Aerys was king there was peace, and they liked that. They don’t care about noble politics. Just peace and food. Also the quote was from Darry smallfolk IIRC and they’re diehard Targ fanboys
Aerys ruled during a time of peace and Tywin kept the economy in good standing. For the small folk things were good under Aerys mostly.
Even the murder of Ned’s family and the other Northerners could be propaganda’d into a very different story, spinning the rebels into power grabbers.
Aerys reign wasn't bad for the realm, only for the nobles.
Under him the roads were safe, the peace was kept, there weren't any famines or catastrophes going on etc.
He just burned people he didn't like, pretty much all of them nobles.
This is similar to how the smallfolk still loved Lord Denys Darklyn; they are looking at the events from the perspective of what was best for them. Yeah, with the Lannisters, who tend to look down on the smallfolk compared to someone like the Starks. Even Catelyn (in the novels at least) is known to look down on the smallfolk, unlike Ned.
They blame his Myrish wife for poisoning his mind. Remember that Lord Denys kidnapped Aerys without provocation.
You are correct, but my point, which I think you missed, was that they did not blame him. Despite everything, the smallfolk still loved Lord Denys, blaming his wife instead. Same as the Mad King.
I don't remember this passage but The Old King could reference to King Jahaerys I who was often referred to as "The Old King" for his exceptionally long reign.
Not at all. When Arya asks if it is Robert the old man says "King Aerys, gods grace him"
Well, it’s not “the smallfolk” who think this, just one guy. And he’s probably not even speaking in earnest, just one of those “the old days were so much better” things.
But it’s also true that few smallfolk had any reason to complain about Aerys. Only the high lords play the game of thrones.
It is clear Aerys never allowed such crimes as Tywin and Robb stark commits. He left a wealthy realm.
Robert bankrupted the kingdom so badly his brother in law must tax sex and his widow must default the iron bank and give privilegies to the Sparrows because of the debt they are in.
It was Tywin who left the realm wealthy. Aerys was just a figurehead with wild ambitions, like building a new Wall.
Tywin ended up sacking Kings Landing, so he cant have been much beloved by the people.
That has nothing to do with his finance management.
I got the flu today, so I have no strenght to fight those who slander Aerys II while spit polishing T-dogs rod.
Have your moment of tywin glazing, bro. Will come back in a few days and set the record straight.
I don't "glaze" anyone in ASOIAF. I comment on what they've actually done. Unlike yourself, who clearly fell into the Targaryen worship side of the fandom.
What they actually done is alot of child murdering. Royal family. Danys assassination attempt. Robert even ordered Mycah killed. Ned going along with it.
But aerys spared the children of duskendale traitors and in brandons murder squad.
Not a contest really.
You're right, its not much of a contest compared to Aegon firebombing Dorne for years.
I’m sure this random peasant is not talking about the crown’s financial state. He’s talking about the war. The only one during Aerys’ reign was the 9PK, and that didn’t touch Westerosi soil, so that was Aerys from his perspective — although a doubt very much that a maid could actually walk down the Kingsroad in her nameday suit without being accosted.
Rose tinted glasses and a lack of information.
The small folk remember a couple of decades before when the was not endless war fondly, should not be surprising.
But aerys DIDNT start a war as genocidal and crazy as Tywin and later Robb Stark.
He never invades the rebel lords lands, except for a fairly peaceful and legal siege of Storms End.
He sendt a 'police force' sized group to arrest robert twice (3 of roberts own bannermen at summerhall & JonCon at Stoney Sept).
War criminal Robb Stark literally puts Duskendale to the torch, something Aerys didnt even do after being imprisoned there. He also invades westerlands and burns and steals as much as he can. Tywins campaign in the riverlands needs no description. His son Tyrion ARMS the wildlings in the mountains of the moon to plunder the Vale. Stannis lets Sallador pirate The narrow sea. Greyjoys in the North and Shields and Reach needs no comment either.
Everything shows that Aerys was a prudent man who refused to go to a war of attrition by taking the 4 to 9000 soldiers at Kings Landing (remains of Rhaegars army) to Storms End and continue the war. Or to order new musters, or call in the fleet. Aerys was murdered while he was still organizing the citys defences and by a far more brutal new regime than he represented.
Aerys spared the youngest members of the groups he massacred (Hollard in Duskendale and youngest of Brandond Starks assassination crew). Tywin and Robert actively murdered every small child from the Tatgaryen family. Was NOT interested in replacing Aerys with a child king from same dynasty and generally was a murderous and brutal gang.
Also, Aerys execution of Brandon Stark was legal. Robb kills Karstark for less. Robert, with Neds silent approval, orders the child Mycah killed for less.
Wake up. Dany is the hero of the story and the author is literally telling us what monsters nearly every POV except Bran is. Viserys was right, thr usurper IS trying to kill them. People DO wish for his return (dorne even has a princess for him).
Robert was a whoremonger child murdering wife raping sick and twisted animal that NO ONE in the entire series has anything good to say about. Compare to Aerys, who is never badmouthed by anyone, except "buhuu he killed my father and brother, now watch me swing the sword on this innocent deserter here."
You're being pretty kind about a man who repeatedly raped his sister-wife, and had to be begged by Barristan to spare the child Hollard.
Duskendale was sacked on Roose's orders. Robb didn't even know about it until after the fact.
Curious how you left out Rickard Stark being roasted alive for simply answering the king's summons...
It was completely in line with what Robb was doing in the west, for theatre commander Bolton to pillage east. Nobody questions his orders and its the most natural thing in the world for Robbs barbarians to pull a Magdeburg on an entire city.
Bolton was part of the winning team in 283 and took up the exposed position of Harrenhall, probably expecting Robb to join him with the mounted starks and Riverlanders, so they could march on the capital. (You know... win the war).
Instead teenager and amateur playing at war Robb Stark never went further east than Riverrun, never tried expelling Tywin from riverlands and in fact never sought out combat with Tywin, leaving that to the undermann forces of Bolton and Edmure Tully the two time T-dog came out to play.
It's bizarre that you hold a comically-charitable view of a guy who roasted someone alive and then called for two teenagers' heads for the grrat crime of being tied to said guy roasted, while simultaneously twisting the narrative to view everyone else in the worst possible light.
Robb had nothing to do with Duskendale. That's a literal fact of the lore. Did he sanction the burning of villages to lure Tywin west? Yes, absolutely. But you're attributing something to him that he simply didn't do.
And again, I find your reassessment of Aerys as a peaceful king who only killed those he must as laughable. He planned to burn half a million people alive, and the main reason he failed to stop Robert was because his administration was incompetent (or double agents in Pycelle and likely Varys' cases), not because he wished for a peaceful resolution. You really believe Ned shouldn't be upset that Rickard was burned alive for doing literally nothing wrong? edit - Or, you know, having his death ordered before he'd even rebelled?.
We only have Jon Arryns word for that. Since Robert supposedly was going to kill Rhaegar for treating Lyanna the way Robert treated other noblewomen he impregnated and deflowered, we at least can see how Robert was a dangerous man to not arrest.
The texts dont lie man. Compared to the war criminals who went to war under Arryns command, and again in 299, Aerys was a very praceful and chill dude. This is also commented on by the peasantry several times in the arya chapter and again in the brienne chapters in feast.
If Robert Baratheon could sentence a CHILD to death for striking the crown prince with a stick. How could it be illegal for the king to execute Brandon Stark for trying to KILL the crown prince? Aerys had some merch abd spared the youngest member of Brandons hit squad. Compare to Ned, Robert and the killing of child Mycah.
You may disagree, especially bc you are a modern nihilist reader, but dont get high on your own farts and begin all the piss with 'comically'.
You're the one comparing a king and his warlords (robert) who ACTIVELY murder children and execute them, with a king who decidedly didnt (Aerys).
We have no source for that except proven liar and traitor to everyone he ever served, jaime lannister. The text says there was no stockpile of wildfire around to burn kings landing. A small one of 200 jars are found in 299 under the dragon pit. Cersei needs 50 jars to burn the tower of the hand, plus logs as fuel.
So we can conclude there was never an operation to burn kings Landing. Either Jaime is lying and was murdering aerys to save his own life, or jaime misunderstood what was planned tactical use of the wildfire, as Tyrion used it.
Or perhaps Aerys planned to burn the red keep.
Its not possible anything was set in motion as far as Jaimes conspiracy theory goes, bc the pyromancers guild is in KL, they would not burn tjemselves, they dont have enough wildfire, not enough time to make more and putting caches all across town would require hundreds of laborers and overseers and pyromancers, none of which ever spoke up or was discovered.
Richard came to defend his murderous son. We see Starks execute people for less, such as the lookout to Karstarks murder of hostages. Richard made a very stupid move in asking for permission for a trial by combat, Aerys then went 'fuck this. Thats a confession of guilt if I ever saw one' and completely legally executed the stark traitors and their men.
I see. So anytime there's something that paints Aerys in a bad light, its just hearsay from unreliable narrators. But when there's something done by a Targaryen enemy during the war, like Rickard "coming to defend his murderous son" or Robert raping Cersei or sentencing Mycah to death, all things we don't actively see happen, its fact. Very curious.
Pretty distasteful to say this, when we have Cerseis POV that Robert raped and beat her, and earlier Robert even demanding Sansas Direwolf be put down, let alone Mycah.
So Cersei's truthful for a certainty because we have her POV, but Jaime is a liar in his own POV? And although we never hear Robert tell the Hound to run Mycah down, he definitely did? I admire your ability to know the text as well as George, it would seem.
Cersei probably does not hallucinate being raped by robert, remembering it to herself.
Why not. He only TELLS the story. He is not the one who is part of the wildfire plot. There is noe evidence for it in the text. Jaime never thinks of the plot either to himself, just describes it to Cat and Brienne.
It is unlikely the kingsguard would hunt for Mycah without the kings orders. Since we see Robert order the direwold dead, he probably ordered Mycah dead too. We know his -reaction- to the child murder though. And it makes it likely he gave the order.
Martin is famous for not knowing his published text. Which is why has that swedish couple as co authors.
I can see you've built up Robert and especially Aerys into your own characters to suit your perspective, one being more evil than tge text portays, and the other being the literal opposite of how he's portrayed (like rewriting Barristan begging for Hollard's life as the benevolent mercy of Good King Aerys who loves children provided they aren't Dornish). God speed.
Aerys is remembered fondly mostly because "he" (aka Tywin Lannister, one of the best administrators who ever lived) kept the treasury overflowing with money.
Tywin, the same as the Hightowers and the Tyrells, understood that money rules the world.
The problem with Robert is twofold 1) he constantly threw lavish tournaments with inane prizes to sate his own ego (drinking and whoring aren't notable expenses, but all those stupid useless tournaments piled up) 2) Baelish was embezzling funds.
Because the crown was indebted to House Lannister, the administration of the capital was poorer and thus the smallfolk living conditions were "worse". Plus, the smallfolk didn't know or care about Aerys' insanity and his crazy plan to blow up King's Landing because, again, the realm was rich and the treasury secure (thanks, Tywin).
You know what's funny? In the show, according to Tywin himself, the Rock's gold mines ran dry long before the war. This makes House Lannister technically broke; without their income, it's only a matter of time until their empire collapses and they are downscaled MASSIVELY. As well, since they are broke, they have been indebted for years to the Iron Bank. Show Tywin didn't really have a plan... as he told Cersei, he just kind of hoped they'd find the money to pay the Iron Bank - House Tyrell's money of course.
So, in the show, Robert Baratheon is indebted to Tywin Lannister... who is also indebted to the Iron Bank...
Is that in the show or the book? Because while it very much feels like something Baelish would do, I just don't remember that being established.
The books. But its unclear how much he could have stowed away.
As master of coins, Littlefinger sells position to imaginary people, then pockets their wages.
Ex: in AFFC, Jaime learns that the crown employs ~20 jailors to oversee around 2-3 prisonners in the black cells. And the head under-jailor basically admits to Jaime that he's never seen more than 5 people come to work