Ahmed al Ahmed. A bonafide hero who took two bullets, has a super stereotypically Muslim name, and might have been more effective at stopping the violence had they not been worried about their own safety being a Muslim with a gun, even as they were attempting to stop the shooter.
I've thought about this a lot. A lot of things Islam does that we'd consider extreme here are exactly what conservatives would want (coverings for women is the big one I usually think about, my fiancee's grandfather thought it was "pornographic" for a woman to wear a tank top in public.) They'd probably get along extremely well if they weren't racist, they want the same things.
I got into it with some people in a TikTok comment sections because Albanese said something about how “especially now, we need to be on the lookout for far right extremism” and all the comments were like “why is he blaming us? it’s the muslim extremists who are the problem” and I had to remind them all that radical islam IS far right, it’s socially regressive.
Yep, especially since in this case the perpetrators were part of Zero Units in Afghanistan and was radicalized by ISIS.
Meanwhile an Arab took down one of the shooters and saved so many people. Yet, the Israeli government and the far right are using this tragedy to continue racism and ethnic cleansing.
Please do not take this as some kind of defense of the US or their guns situation, but:
The org everyone is getting their mass shooting statistics from is hyperinflating them and their school shooting stats. When you hear about a mass shooting on the news, that's when one happened, which is often. But then how do we get to hundreds a year?
4 people(including the one with the gun) injured(not even by the gun) in an incident that involves a gun.
That's the definition they use.
For the school shootings part there was just HORRIFIC misuse of data. Anything that involved a gun and was within x distance of a school? School shooting. School reports that there was "an incident involving a weapon"? School shooting.
These things matter. The American gun violence problem matters, but when organisations like Everytown are trusted and used as sources they (knowingly or not) sabotage the movement by being so utterly wrong.
No. Which is part of what makes it problematic, on top of the incredibly poor quality of data in general that's used in some cases in the US, see link at the bottom.
Also I don't understand the downvotes, mass shooting are an awful form of terrorism. Over inflating the numbers with things that sane people wouldn't classify as them numbs people to the news which is harmful. Focus on the events that happened, the lives that were never fully lived because of these preventable incidents.
But he was Muslim. Not radical, but thats because muslims, like other groups of people, arent a monolith and individuals shouldnt be judged as if they are.
radical grandma is always thirsty to label minorities dangerous and wanting to ban them. Almost like she is a fucking white supremacist looking any reason to justify her ideology.
Mainstream doesn’t but some of the smaller groups give Islam a run for its money. The primary difference is that modern mainstream Christianity lacks the same power in government and people’s day to day lives.
TLDR don’t let any religion have that much influence on people.
Islam isn't a race, and radical islam is absolutely an issue worldwide.
Edit: oh and to be clear, fuck christiany, and every religion that suppresses human rights, but we all know that in modern day practise they don't compare.
But “radical Islam” has become a right wing slogan for any Muslim. They call Zohran Mamdani a “radical Islamist” too. Whatever problems you may have with fundamentalism or Islam it’s good to be wary of buying into right wing tropes.
And while Islam isn’t a race it certainly is racialized. Meaning “Muslim” and “Arab” are often seen as interchangeable and as non white races.
I'm not American so idk what exactly goes on there, but I know that here in central europa that for a long time any criticisms of islam and/or poor integration would get you labeled as a right wing extremist/racist etc. Now that things have become more extreme here and the bad parts of islam have been shining through more that sentiment has begun to shift. But that's why it's difficult for me to accept what you are saying here, because it sounds very similar to the generalisations that I am used to.
I guess it’s all just a matter of framing. It’s not a problem being critical of fundamentalist Islam just like you can have problems with fundamentalists of any religion.
But in a time like now when Muslims are being targeted in the west for oppression, it is easy to have valid criticisms of parts of Islam slip into justifying Islamophobia and you have to be careful, that’s all.
It’d be like if I decided to had a bunch of problems with fundamental Judaism, I would be very careful to emphasize that it was not all of Judaism that I had a problem with and be very specific about the critique and its context to avoid slipping into or allowing antisemitism.
She is a representative they keep calling "extremist" or worse (Trump called her "garbage" recently) just for being Muslim. I mean, I think Google reaches Australia too.
Sure, but why would an Australian look into that? Same for me or any non American. how much do you know about our politicians? They can be looked up online too, but what reason would you have to look into that?
Also Trump calling her garbage for just being muslim? I have very little doubt that if I looked up the full context I'd find there is more going on, Like, I don't like the guy but there is a lot of propoganda and misinfo from all political sides in the states.
Also Trump calling her garbage for just being muslim? I have very little doubt that if I looked up the full context I'd find there is more going on,
No, there really isn't. She's a Democrat and a muslim immigrant. That's pretty much the extent of why he is attacking her. Don't try to "both sides" this shit, they aren't remotely close to the same.
Don't try to "both sides" this shit, they aren't remotely close to the same.
Right wing Americans tell me the exact same thing lol. That is the issue with polarisation over there, y'all think you are the one with the correct position while not spending a second trying to understand each other (Because the other side is evil!!!!!!). I used to think the reps were evil while the dems were the good guys, but now that I'm a little older I can look back and see how much bs was spewed by the democrats that I believed at the time. Democrats/Left wing US politicians in general seem better at hiding the bad stuff than republicans/right winger politicians. The reality is that both sides have good and bad things to offer, but because everything is so black and white over there (it seems), neither side can acknowledge that.
When one side is for giving everyone healthcare and the other for exterminating minorities, I think I'll err on siding for the ones wanting healthcare.
If it were a valid critic of Islam it'd be fine. It's not though. It's using a tragedy for fearmongering. If the moron of an author actually cared about anything beyond blind racism it'd show in their work.
Although I see the argument of using tragedies, I don't think that should become an excuse to not be allowed to call out reoccurring problems. We all know these violent attacks aren't all muslims, but we cannot continue pretending that it's not incredibly disproportionate.
You're missing the entire point. Islamophobia is just repackaged racism, and white Reddit atheists like you eat it up because you don't understand nuance.
It’s wild that extreme right-wing Christians think extreme right-wing Muslims are ‘liberal’.
Liberal=enemy Muslim=enemy
Therefore, liberal=muslim
I believe they call this backwards thinking
Wait until you find out who "they" think is simultaneously hoarding all the money AND spreading communism at the same time
But they also think the Nazis were ‘socialists’
Wasn't the guy who stopped the gunman a Muslim?
Ahmed al Ahmed. A bonafide hero who took two bullets, has a super stereotypically Muslim name, and might have been more effective at stopping the violence had they not been worried about their own safety being a Muslim with a gun, even as they were attempting to stop the shooter.
I've thought about this a lot. A lot of things Islam does that we'd consider extreme here are exactly what conservatives would want (coverings for women is the big one I usually think about, my fiancee's grandfather thought it was "pornographic" for a woman to wear a tank top in public.) They'd probably get along extremely well if they weren't racist, they want the same things.
I got into it with some people in a TikTok comment sections because Albanese said something about how “especially now, we need to be on the lookout for far right extremism” and all the comments were like “why is he blaming us? it’s the muslim extremists who are the problem” and I had to remind them all that radical islam IS far right, it’s socially regressive.
It fills me with rage that such a tragedy has been twisted and politicised by the most disgusting people on the planet.
Many such cases unfortunately
Yep, especially since in this case the perpetrators were part of Zero Units in Afghanistan and was radicalized by ISIS.
Meanwhile an Arab took down one of the shooters and saved so many people. Yet, the Israeli government and the far right are using this tragedy to continue racism and ethnic cleansing.
They will never let a good crisis go to waste.
But let a LIBERAL say that...
Would be surprising if they wouldn't do what they always do...
Australia: 1 mass shooting every 20 years
USA: 1 mass shooting every 24 hours
Clean up your own backyard before you start pointing fingers.
Please do not take this as some kind of defense of the US or their guns situation, but:
The org everyone is getting their mass shooting statistics from is hyperinflating them and their school shooting stats. When you hear about a mass shooting on the news, that's when one happened, which is often. But then how do we get to hundreds a year?
4 people(including the one with the gun) injured(not even by the gun) in an incident that involves a gun.
That's the definition they use.
For the school shootings part there was just HORRIFIC misuse of data. Anything that involved a gun and was within x distance of a school? School shooting. School reports that there was "an incident involving a weapon"? School shooting.
These things matter. The American gun violence problem matters, but when organisations like Everytown are trusted and used as sources they (knowingly or not) sabotage the movement by being so utterly wrong.
EDIT since relevant and I always struggle to find this article: NPR on problems with data on this subject.
Are the same definitions applied regardless of country?
No. Which is part of what makes it problematic, on top of the incredibly poor quality of data in general that's used in some cases in the US, see link at the bottom.
Also I don't understand the downvotes, mass shooting are an awful form of terrorism. Over inflating the numbers with things that sane people wouldn't classify as them numbs people to the news which is harmful. Focus on the events that happened, the lives that were never fully lived because of these preventable incidents.
this only makes sense if you assume this was sent by an american. but an assumption doesn’t make a good argument.
Remind me, who disarmed one of the gunmen ?
Not a radical islamist
But he was a radical dude 😎 (and of course a hero)
But he was Muslim. Not radical, but thats because muslims, like other groups of people, arent a monolith and individuals shouldnt be judged as if they are.
What is a ‘radical Islamist’? The man who disarmed the gunman was truer to any of the principles of Islam than either of the scum doing the shooting.
"Hey I am trying to draw a political cartoon. What do radical islamists usually look like"
"I think they wear shirts that say \"Radical Islam\" it's like a band"
"Oh ok"
It's a political cartoon, they gotta spell it out for the dimwits who read them
radical grandma is always thirsty to label minorities dangerous and wanting to ban them. Almost like she is a fucking white supremacist looking any reason to justify her ideology.
Mainstream doesn’t but some of the smaller groups give Islam a run for its money. The primary difference is that modern mainstream Christianity lacks the same power in government and people’s day to day lives.
TLDR don’t let any religion have that much influence on people.
SKS is a Nazi
This is the worst drawing of Albo that I’ve ever seen.
Do better SKS.
Outside of the context of the dialogue, you would never pick that as Albo.
He got the forehead then just gave up and slapped John Howard's face on him.
SKS likes to stick his business in a lot of political areas he knows nothing about, like most Nazi political cartoonists.
SKS is a nazi
Admit that guns are your entire personality without admitting guns are your entire personality.
Islam isn't a race, and radical islam is absolutely an issue worldwide.
Edit: oh and to be clear, fuck christiany, and every religion that suppresses human rights, but we all know that in modern day practise they don't compare.
Not a valid excuse to dehumanize all Muslims though.
Do you feel this meme dehumanises all muslims? Because "radical islam" is literally plastered over the guys shirt.
But “radical Islam” has become a right wing slogan for any Muslim. They call Zohran Mamdani a “radical Islamist” too. Whatever problems you may have with fundamentalism or Islam it’s good to be wary of buying into right wing tropes.
And while Islam isn’t a race it certainly is racialized. Meaning “Muslim” and “Arab” are often seen as interchangeable and as non white races.
They called fucking Obama a "radical Islamist"
I'm not American so idk what exactly goes on there, but I know that here in central europa that for a long time any criticisms of islam and/or poor integration would get you labeled as a right wing extremist/racist etc. Now that things have become more extreme here and the bad parts of islam have been shining through more that sentiment has begun to shift. But that's why it's difficult for me to accept what you are saying here, because it sounds very similar to the generalisations that I am used to.
I guess it’s all just a matter of framing. It’s not a problem being critical of fundamentalist Islam just like you can have problems with fundamentalists of any religion.
But in a time like now when Muslims are being targeted in the west for oppression, it is easy to have valid criticisms of parts of Islam slip into justifying Islamophobia and you have to be careful, that’s all.
It’d be like if I decided to had a bunch of problems with fundamental Judaism, I would be very careful to emphasize that it was not all of Judaism that I had a problem with and be very specific about the critique and its context to avoid slipping into or allowing antisemitism.
Nah what you're describing is Europe becoming more and more far-right as fascism is on the rise worldwide
Yes. They are all called "radical". See Ilhan Omar. It's just another one in a long line of dogwhistles, like "illegal" and "thug".
Another person mentioned this Omar guy, I have no clue who that is (I'm Dutch) and neither do the people from Australia which this meme is about.
She is a representative they keep calling "extremist" or worse (Trump called her "garbage" recently) just for being Muslim. I mean, I think Google reaches Australia too.
Sure, but why would an Australian look into that? Same for me or any non American. how much do you know about our politicians? They can be looked up online too, but what reason would you have to look into that?
Also Trump calling her garbage for just being muslim? I have very little doubt that if I looked up the full context I'd find there is more going on, Like, I don't like the guy but there is a lot of propoganda and misinfo from all political sides in the states.
No, there really isn't. She's a Democrat and a muslim immigrant. That's pretty much the extent of why he is attacking her. Don't try to "both sides" this shit, they aren't remotely close to the same.
Right wing Americans tell me the exact same thing lol. That is the issue with polarisation over there, y'all think you are the one with the correct position while not spending a second trying to understand each other (Because the other side is evil!!!!!!). I used to think the reps were evil while the dems were the good guys, but now that I'm a little older I can look back and see how much bs was spewed by the democrats that I believed at the time. Democrats/Left wing US politicians in general seem better at hiding the bad stuff than republicans/right winger politicians. The reality is that both sides have good and bad things to offer, but because everything is so black and white over there (it seems), neither side can acknowledge that.
When one side is for giving everyone healthcare and the other for exterminating minorities, I think I'll err on siding for the ones wanting healthcare.
There aren't really left wing politicians in the US, the democrats are center-right at best
Because this is an American website on a subreddit mostly used to discuss American issues discussing a cartoon by an American cartoonist?
I get that, but why would that make an Australian more inclined to look into random US politicians?
Because sometime mentioned them in a discussion they are participating on? It's called, I don't know, curiosity.
If it were a valid critic of Islam it'd be fine. It's not though. It's using a tragedy for fearmongering. If the moron of an author actually cared about anything beyond blind racism it'd show in their work.
Although I see the argument of using tragedies, I don't think that should become an excuse to not be allowed to call out reoccurring problems. We all know these violent attacks aren't all muslims, but we cannot continue pretending that it's not incredibly disproportionate.
Show us where the PM welcomed “radical Islam”. The disconnect is the point. It’s racism.
If you don't think known neo-nazis like SKS racialize muslims, you're extremely naive at best.
You're missing the entire point. Islamophobia is just repackaged racism, and white Reddit atheists like you eat it up because you don't understand nuance.
btw the guy who tackled the gunman was an arab.
so just... screw him i guess right granny?