Also multi-stat debuffs that stack and last multiple turns, only wearing off one stat point per turn, leading to scenarios where you spend 6 turns with your stats lowered. All of this in a game with literally zero methods of cleansing debuffs, btw. (Also there's multiple debuff staves, one of which just cuts your unit's max HP in half until the map is over.)
I think it’s lit. It’s unironically a pretty fair and well designed map that rewards the player with thoughtful planning with the DVs and offers different ways to go through the map. It encourages the player to both pace themselves carefully, while also not be too slow with Saizo. I’d put it in my top 10 most favourite maps from CQ
There's no difficulty spike. You were always taught how debuffs and poison skills work in earlier chapters. Literally the second chapter in Conquest, chapter 7 has enemies with grisly wound on lunatic. I'm sorry but it's just a skill issue.
Okay what is the point here exactly? Also are we seriously comparing CQ 17 with this map? They're not even remotely the same, CQ17 allows you to move through the map in different routes and rewards the player with smart usage of the dragonveins. Saizo also acts as an incentive to get the player moving and not just remain in one place or use the DVs smartly, to get a free speedwing.
Aaah, crazed beast, one of the most boring chapters in FE7. It spams weak enemies at you. Only good thing about the chapter is that you get to recruit Fsrina
I love how FE4-lite it feels. It's also a good spot for levelling up weaker units and grinding supports. One of my favorite chapters in the game, actually.
Crazed beast is a brief respite in HHM that I'm always glad for. I can use it to train up some weaker units if need be, and there's almost no risk involved (as long as I remember to give Florina enough javelins and a sword). Meanwhile, the stacking debuffs that take multiple turns to cleanse in conquest make most of the maps a slog, not just this one
Its a somewhat infamous map where you start dead center besieged from three sides and need to capture three points while fighting waves of enemies. The attack from the north has a choke point with forts, so one very obvious way of tackling the map is sending your strong promotes to hold there while the bulk of your army handles the other points.
It's a map that is cool in theory (especially since you can only play it on your second playthrough) but pretty tedious in execution. The eastern point is really far and separated from you by water, and the southwest point is a slog of forest to walk through, so theres a lot of just moving and passing the turn.
I feel like I'm alone in saying I've never had any issues with CQ ch 17. Like, yeah, it's hard, It's a Conquest map, but it doesn't seem any harder than any other given conquest map.
adding debuffs/end-of-combat fixed damage to a game with big numbers and high growths and pairup is like trying to make a 1500 calorie mega meat slop sandwich healthy by adding some spinach to it
why not tame the number/mechanic design that enables juggernauting instead of keeping the core issues intact and poorly trying to bandaid it
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Debuffs and after combat damage still makes juggernauting harder. Like if you plant your tank in chapter 17 and don't pay attention clearly, they'll likely die after facing against 2-3 ninjas. Conversly it also puts more importance on killing enemies quickly to avoid seal skills or poison damage, therefore arguably giving an edge to use attack stance instead if you can one shot the enemies with attack stance.
sometimes i just dont know how to response to posts like this. the second line lays it out pretty unambiguously.
you're still getting some useful vitamins and minerals from the extra spinach. you're still doing something to juggernauting potential. but neither bother to address the root of the unhealthiness/juggernauting potential, and as a result the fundamental issue is still there. lunatic cq is a remarkably juggernaut friendly environment. high difficulty fe12 is an infinitely simpler game that addresses the issue through numbers and actually does a good job in diminishing juggernauting as a result because the problem is tackled on a foundational level.
juggernauting is a numbers issue at its core, and emphasizing unit scaling through high growths, high caps, and a whole suite of stat modifiers via pairup (and encouraging you to use it since it negates incoming attack stance stuff) is like rolling out the red carpet for juggernauting. the big caps, growths, pairup modifiers, etc are there because they felt obligated to copy awakening, not because it's brilliant design.
So why do debuffs not address the problem? They affect numbers in a different way that lets the player strategize around it in both player phase and enemy phase. You can take out specific enemies in certain positions on one turn to weather the storm on the next.
I think it’s more interesting to play around shuriken debuffs, hexing rods, and certain abilities like poison strike, blows, and seals than just generally lowering stats and caps by default (Idk fe12 but I’m assuming that’s what you meant). Conquest units also having low-ish HP helps make some of these stat modifiers feel more impactful too.
Now addressing it in this way does still make juggernauting overall doable and potentially optimal on some maps, but imo most of the time it requires enough thought for it to not be boring unless you specialize for certain juggernaut builds. Those specific builds can break the game and make it juggernaut friendly like you said, but they’re just one option out of the many you can do in Conquest.
Even if juggernauting is still doable, I don’t think it’s necessarily bad in Conquest if the majority of the time there is still thoughtful gameplay and strategy. For most maps, you really have to deliberately make the game become unfun juggernauting if that’s what you want to do.
Now addressing it in this way does still make juggernauting overall doable and potentially optimal on some maps,
as an aside it's incredibly funny how i'm being downvoted for being critical of conquest in a thread where the OP (which has attracted many heckin updoots) is very unambiguously making fun of conquest glazing
I think the reason you're getting downvoted is because you're criticizing the game for allowing juggernaut strats in Lunatic Conquest when the map in the post is infamous for being anti juggernaut. Conquest isn't a perfect game, and it's completely fair to criticize certain aspects of the gameplay, but I think it's kind of a given that people disagree with your argument when they have a pretty solid counterpoint to your argument even in just the post itself.
Plus, OP picked a bad map if they were trying to make the same point as you. If this meme was trying to say 'juggernauting in Conquest is bad game design', there are better examples than the one map that's famous for throwing 500 true damage debuff ninjas at you that can turn your tank into shredded cheese if you aren't careful
This post has been certified by real Black Fang loyalists: ✅ TRUE ✅
This feels like engagement bait…
when-they-slandering-your-goat.jpg
The term “cherry picking” comes to mind here.
In any case though, this is just an awful comparison. I hope you’re proud OP.
Didn't you know? %hp damage after combat is based player engagement
Also multi-stat debuffs that stack and last multiple turns, only wearing off one stat point per turn, leading to scenarios where you spend 6 turns with your stats lowered. All of this in a game with literally zero methods of cleansing debuffs, btw. (Also there's multiple debuff staves, one of which just cuts your unit's max HP in half until the map is over.)
You’re right they should add a restore staff and a bunch of status staves like berserk that have no counter play except restore.
Give the status staves 100% accuracy unless the target has more res than the caster has mag
I heard ‘iron manning’ was popular in the community, apparently I simply misheard ‘straw manning’.
Finally someone that recognizes the bad artificial difficulty of Fates, it has some good maps and good mechanics like pair up but is so overrated
Ain't nobody calling CQ Chapter 17 lit be for real lmao
I think it’s lit. It’s unironically a pretty fair and well designed map that rewards the player with thoughtful planning with the DVs and offers different ways to go through the map. It encourages the player to both pace themselves carefully, while also not be too slow with Saizo. I’d put it in my top 10 most favourite maps from CQ
Everything you mentionned only applies after you've had to restart the map 7 times on your first playthrough and wasted hours upon hours on it.
That sounds like a skill issue. The map is very straightforward for what happens.
At which point does it go from a "skill issue" to a terribly designed difficulty spike?
There's no difficulty spike. You were always taught how debuffs and poison skills work in earlier chapters. Literally the second chapter in Conquest, chapter 7 has enemies with grisly wound on lunatic. I'm sorry but it's just a skill issue.
Fire emblem Agenda posting in the big 2026. What a time to be alive
Okay what is the point here exactly? Also are we seriously comparing CQ 17 with this map? They're not even remotely the same, CQ17 allows you to move through the map in different routes and rewards the player with smart usage of the dragonveins. Saizo also acts as an incentive to get the player moving and not just remain in one place or use the DVs smartly, to get a free speedwing.
Or you just trap him like I always do so he doesn't suicide himself like an idiot.
Aaah, crazed beast, one of the most boring chapters in FE7. It spams weak enemies at you. Only good thing about the chapter is that you get to recruit Fsrina
Crazed Beast plays how everyone describes FE7 gameplay - tons of weak enemies you have to mow down with 1-2 range.
I love how FE4-lite it feels. It's also a good spot for levelling up weaker units and grinding supports. One of my favorite chapters in the game, actually.
Disgusting. Get that queen on some royalty for an easy life. Benny deserves better
That’s a blonde guy on a horse with a black circlet on his head. 100% Xander, so the canon timeline has been preserved.
Ah, so the OP simply lied with a character that shouldn't be there. ShamefulI'm an idiot
That's Xander though?
You think I actually play fire emblem?
My apologies, I was unfamiliar with your game
*He was unfamiliar with the game
Crazed beast is a brief respite in HHM that I'm always glad for. I can use it to train up some weaker units if need be, and there's almost no risk involved (as long as I remember to give Florina enough javelins and a sword). Meanwhile, the stacking debuffs that take multiple turns to cleanse in conquest make most of the maps a slog, not just this one
I see nothing wrong here.
I haven't played the GBA one, what does this mean?
Its a somewhat infamous map where you start dead center besieged from three sides and need to capture three points while fighting waves of enemies. The attack from the north has a choke point with forts, so one very obvious way of tackling the map is sending your strong promotes to hold there while the bulk of your army handles the other points.
It's a map that is cool in theory (especially since you can only play it on your second playthrough) but pretty tedious in execution. The eastern point is really far and separated from you by water, and the southwest point is a slog of forest to walk through, so theres a lot of just moving and passing the turn.
this is true
This reminds me of that StarCraft Mod made CarBot Animations. If this is available on gba games, I would give it a try.
both are awesome
hey you got the images the wrong way around
the art here is so funny, its like one of those "i put it through google translate back and forth 10 times" memes
r/coaxedintoasnafu
I feel like I'm alone in saying I've never had any issues with CQ ch 17. Like, yeah, it's hard, It's a Conquest map, but it doesn't seem any harder than any other given conquest map.
adding debuffs/end-of-combat fixed damage to a game with big numbers and high growths and pairup is like trying to make a 1500 calorie mega meat slop sandwich healthy by adding some spinach to it
why not tame the number/mechanic design that enables juggernauting instead of keeping the core issues intact and poorly trying to bandaid it
I have no idea what this is supposed to mean. Debuffs and after combat damage still makes juggernauting harder. Like if you plant your tank in chapter 17 and don't pay attention clearly, they'll likely die after facing against 2-3 ninjas. Conversly it also puts more importance on killing enemies quickly to avoid seal skills or poison damage, therefore arguably giving an edge to use attack stance instead if you can one shot the enemies with attack stance.
sometimes i just dont know how to response to posts like this. the second line lays it out pretty unambiguously.
you're still getting some useful vitamins and minerals from the extra spinach. you're still doing something to juggernauting potential. but neither bother to address the root of the unhealthiness/juggernauting potential, and as a result the fundamental issue is still there. lunatic cq is a remarkably juggernaut friendly environment. high difficulty fe12 is an infinitely simpler game that addresses the issue through numbers and actually does a good job in diminishing juggernauting as a result because the problem is tackled on a foundational level.
juggernauting is a numbers issue at its core, and emphasizing unit scaling through high growths, high caps, and a whole suite of stat modifiers via pairup (and encouraging you to use it since it negates incoming attack stance stuff) is like rolling out the red carpet for juggernauting. the big caps, growths, pairup modifiers, etc are there because they felt obligated to copy awakening, not because it's brilliant design.
So why do debuffs not address the problem? They affect numbers in a different way that lets the player strategize around it in both player phase and enemy phase. You can take out specific enemies in certain positions on one turn to weather the storm on the next.
I think it’s more interesting to play around shuriken debuffs, hexing rods, and certain abilities like poison strike, blows, and seals than just generally lowering stats and caps by default (Idk fe12 but I’m assuming that’s what you meant). Conquest units also having low-ish HP helps make some of these stat modifiers feel more impactful too.
Now addressing it in this way does still make juggernauting overall doable and potentially optimal on some maps, but imo most of the time it requires enough thought for it to not be boring unless you specialize for certain juggernaut builds. Those specific builds can break the game and make it juggernaut friendly like you said, but they’re just one option out of the many you can do in Conquest.
Even if juggernauting is still doable, I don’t think it’s necessarily bad in Conquest if the majority of the time there is still thoughtful gameplay and strategy. For most maps, you really have to deliberately make the game become unfun juggernauting if that’s what you want to do.
as an aside it's incredibly funny how i'm being downvoted for being critical of conquest in a thread where the OP (which has attracted many heckin updoots) is very unambiguously making fun of conquest glazing
You’re not being downvoted for criticizing Conquest, you’re being downvoting for making very poor arguments.
the argument is incredibly simple. please explain to me why painting debuffs etc as subpar bandaids is an inaccurate assessment.
I think the reason you're getting downvoted is because you're criticizing the game for allowing juggernaut strats in Lunatic Conquest when the map in the post is infamous for being anti juggernaut. Conquest isn't a perfect game, and it's completely fair to criticize certain aspects of the gameplay, but I think it's kind of a given that people disagree with your argument when they have a pretty solid counterpoint to your argument even in just the post itself.
Plus, OP picked a bad map if they were trying to make the same point as you. If this meme was trying to say 'juggernauting in Conquest is bad game design', there are better examples than the one map that's famous for throwing 500 true damage debuff ninjas at you that can turn your tank into shredded cheese if you aren't careful