Sometimes I voke after dying purely because of habit left over from higher tier content. In savage and some extremes, the fight doesn't necessarily target the tank role but rather top two on enmity. So voking after getting back up is just a way to ensure your PCT/SAM/VPR isn't about to get blasted with a tankbuster

It’s a good habit for the tanks to always be numbers 1 and 2 in threat. That way if the current tank dies it immediately targets the other tank. Also some mechanics will target the top two threats and you usually don’t want that targeting someone squishy. In general, both tanks should be using stance at all times and using shirk to control if they’re trying not to be first target. The only reason not to have stance on is if you’re intentionally suppressing your threat generation for a moment to let your cotank get a small lead on you before you turn it back on again. You should never need to provoke to take aggro when the MT dies, you should already have it by default.

However after dying you can be quite far behind. Provoking as soon as possible upon revive is a good habit to snap back up to top two. Typically it should be fairly easy for the other tank to quickly outpace you and stay number one since you’re doing considerably less damage with weakness but it doesn’t really matter at all who is number 1 vs 2 just that they’re both tanks. If you have a sage, usually they want Kardia on whoever has number 1 threat and if they’re not actively swapping mid combat (which of course they should be but it’s so rarely useful that very few do) then it can be a good idea to shirk or turn off stance a bit so the dead tank can get the focus back since they’re carrying the healing focus.

It's a habit from endgame content. In many/most endgame fights, the tanks need to be #1 and #2 in aggro, because of tankbusters and other mechanics that target them. Going down and not picking aggro back up asap could lead to a dps getting a buster and getting fragged in a hurry.

In casual content that's not the case, but it's still habit to voke as soon as my buttons work. It's not meant as a condemnation of you. You did the right thing by picking up when the MT went down. Don't sweat it.

Aren't you supposed to provoke? Because if I'm MT, die, and don't provoke, the highest DPS gets a tank buster

Sorry but my pride is directly tied to my status as MAIN TANK and I deserve to be MAIN TANK at all times because I am the protagonist of this MMO. Also I heard that if you are off-tank then you have a small PP and girls wont like you.

P.S. It's the healer's fault I died.

/s

This is likely a reflex from EX/Savage/Ultimate level content. Many of the bosses has mechanics that target the top two players in aggro so the MT is trying to establish themselves as one of the top two so the mechanics properly target MT and OT.

You can really tell who has tanked savage/ultimates before in this Reddit thread. Its just muscle memory at this point to voke to get aggro back

Too used to "top two aggro" mechs (albeit usually in extreme and savage) to not provoke

But in normal content I probably follow up with Shirk (if it's up) or dropping tank stance (if not)

Personally I provoke in case there’s an incoming tankbuster so that it doesn’t go on another party member.

On a more serious note: some tank mechanics are targeted to the top two aggro, which means if there is a death the BLM might be getting pancaked. So an ASAP provoke is warranted there. And this mentality can sometimes carry into fights without that.

It's a habit, to avoid getting the top DPS getting killed by a tankbuster later on.

Weakness doesn't really affect your tanking much, just your damage, so there's no real reason to not go back to the MT role.

I can say I'm guilty of this, but it really is just habit from EX/Savage where if I die I need to make sure I voke when I get rezzed just so that way if a tankbuster comes out it wont target a DPS instead

No point fighting. Use Shirk and let big boy handle it (or not and they die again). Don't fight over it, some people get super pissy. Let them pretend they won and move on with your life.

Depends, there's usually not much point in casual content cuz usually tankbusters will target the tanks anyways but in high end those (and dual auto attacks) are aggro based and so even an off tank will provoke to get back to the top 2. Honestly I do it in casual content on habit more than anything

Weakness is irrelevant for tanking. You could stay MT anyway, but also fine if they provoke, because there's no reason for either outcome. Just whatever everybody is comfiest doing.

Depending on the duty it's largely beneficial to have the tanks be the first and second on the aggro list. There are many that target the first and second positions on the list rather than by role.

It’s a good thing to do because it drags the tank out of the 8th place in the enmity list. So if you die later he doesn’t have to remember to provoke then. The longer the fights been going on the more of a hate deficit a revived tank has to fight through. It’s a lot easier to just go ahead and provoke and not have to worry about it.

There’s a handful of encounters out there where the boss will attack the top two players on the enmity list, as well, so in those cases it’s extra important to just go ahead and provoke yourself out of the bottom.

If i die as tank i voke and immediately shirk so the party doesnt eat a buster. Some fights target top enmity not just both tanks.

if i was MT and got downed for any reason and the OT isnt in my party outside of the duty i will provoke back just to ensure the boss doesnt nuke the healers since you never know if your rando OT is 1-still paying attention or 2-knows mechanics (if i think they are doing well in the time im down i will shirk back to them and drop stance so healers dont have to deal with my res sickness tho)

Weakness doesn't really impact your survivability. Dying and reviving only impacts your damage and the loss of resources, assuming you get healed. 

Its important to provoke after rez in any fight that has simultaneous tankbusters. You should also be doing it if you die as an offtank.

Thanks for all the comments this quickly. We were doing Normal raid M12. I don't really care about being MT or OT. I'm comfy with either. I just didn't understand why the MT Decided to do that. As long as the content get's done i'm fine. I was just curious

Weakness doesn't reduce your ability to tank and if the tank doesn't change (other than mandatory tank swaps) people are less likely to mess up and shield the wrong guy or fail a mechanic because suddenly MT has to go where OT goes.

Just use Shirk to give the MT an aggro lead and everything stays smooth

Folks in casual content probably don't think about what is best as often as we'd like. In my opinion, you're right and I would have let you keep MTing but honestly it probably wouldn't make a noticeable difference unless we were doing high end sweaty content. 

I turn my stance off and voke just to get back to 2nd emnity in case of mechanics that target top 2 targets. Then once weakness is off I'll turn stance back on

It's important for mechanics in high level content. It's likely a reflex.

Is this for normal content or EX/savage/etc.?

If it's normal content, there's no reason for tanks to be 1 and 2 aggro for mechs, since all tank targeting mechs target by role. FF14 removed that years ago for normal content (the last content to require this was diamond weapon, but they've changed it to target by role instead). That tank who went down either just likes to be MT or forgot that being 1 or 2 aggro is no longer required for normal. Or they just panic provoked. In the past, I've asked a couple tanks who do this out of curiosity, and they've all told me that they didn't realize I provoked the boss after they died and thought the boss was aggro-ing a non-tank, and panic provoked.

If it's higher tier content, then it's like what others said: tanks should be the top 1 and 2 enmity due to mechs.

Why would they wait for weakness to be gone? It's just a debuff to their damage, nothing else. It doesn't particularly matter who is getting punched in the face, not like normal mode autos do anything.

Context matters : if its an ex or savage, players have pos and MT being north is also because it ensure the most uptime for melee and for doing their pos. There could also be tank buster based on aggro list. And the debuff from being revived isn't that bad when it comes to survivability.

Unless MT is a 5 vuln stack, they can keep the aggro. The worst thing is fighting for aggro, making the boss spin or move where no one is accustomed to

If there is a tank buster mechanics or some kinda of tank bait mechanic where it targets X2 highest threat then yeah

> wouldn't it be better for you to provoke after weakness goes away?

Weakness only affects how much damage they do, it doesn't affect their health or the damage taken.

In that situation it would have been better for the MT and OT to swap roles.

The MT trying to take back position right away is a common mistake.

I think it's really just a preference. Often times the MT will become the OT but sometimes they want to continue, maybe even just for their own comfort. In non-high-end content, I think it's just vibes

Weakness does not affect tanking just the damage. It’s pretty inconsequential if the previous MT wants it back I would say, I’m definitely guilty of this simply because I like being the MT lolol. In some fights tho it’s definitely good to do this especially if double tank busters are a thing or even two autos happening at once.

I mean i scrolled and didnt see anyone mention that its kinda what you are supposed to do. I mean it could be someone that really just needs that ego boost but many mechanics have aggro priority so you always want the 2 tanks at the top or your dps might get tank busted

you be want to stay OT if ur OT, coz in high end? it should and not make people confuse which mech they're gonna do.

Ideally no one should provoke until rez immunity is over, as you can get downed again from autos or other mechs, but depending on where you are in the fight, you may not have that luxury as some bosses require that both tanks be highest in aggro.

People will do it to shoot back up the aggro list so a dps or healer doesn’t get targeted for a tankbuster. It probably doesn’t matter as long as they don’t die again immediately.

Reminds me of when i was a WAR in WoD run and i dont like to MT. Its literally the raid ive done as tank. I just went because I'd only get crystal tower at the time and i knew i could do it regardless.

Tank in another party kept provoking off me because they wanted to be main tank but my dps was outstripping their aggro. I did try just turning off stance but he got angry in chat about it (like dude why you stalkin my status?) So we co-MT'd WoD. Weirdos out here

I am not a professional tank and often do not remember what is coming, so depending, I just want to be back up to #1 or #2 on the enmity list.

I don't care if I fall from MT to OT. I'll either delay turning on tank stance or use Shirk as appropriate.

Unless someone is being repeatedly obnoxious or showing every sign of trying to get ahead of or in front of you, it's also best to assume that the odd misplaced provoke is just fat fingers.

So op some bosses have dual auto attacks that target the two highest aggros, typically tanks, and the pvoke after raise helps get the aggro off the DPS that is now tanking autos meant for tanks

Its always good to have both tanks as the top two in enmity. Some duties even have the boss auto attacking the top two in enmity. High end content will also have tank mechanics targeting the top two in enmity regardless of their role. Weakness doesn't really matter. It only reduces the damage the tank does

Its actually a good habit, even if taking that aggro means saccing yourself again to prevent a DPS or healer death. Tanks need to always maintain top aggro in raids, and if you're not in voice comms you dont know if the other tank will shirk you. When you die you go to 8th place aggro. If you're going into a two aggro targeted buster, you will kill someone if you don't voke. You can rebalance aggro later, but you must either voke or have the other tank shirk you immediately when you die as a tank.

Sometimes you have to voke immediately to prevent a shared tb going into a dps

If the boss attacks the highest two hate people (Sphene EX, others im sure) its best to just go ahead and provoke to stop your dps from getting that damage so your healers can recover.

it’s high content stuff and savage usually if you commit to mt or ot u wanna keep ur spot either via turning stance off if ur too close or provoking to keep it especially in savage. but also just some fights slap a tank buster on both highest enmity so its important both tanks are always most or second most

also it could just purely be a habit they picked up to provoke after death cause i mean ot should be turning stance off if they are getting too close enmity wise anyway unless ur goal is to ego mt i know some like doing that

Sometimes you need to provoke so it's back to tanks being 1 & 2 on aggro list. Otherwise if a TB comes up it’ll go to whoever is 2 & if that's not a tank it’ll kill um 💀

For normal mode content, yes, ideally you should let the OT tank at least until your weakness is gone unless they're horribly undergeared or play very poorly.

For EX onwards, it depends. Some mechanics require that a specific tank be tanking, so getting up and insta-provoking is mandatory there. It's something you need to take on a case by case basis.

maybe it's muscle memory of the MT to establish aggro ASAP because in Savage or higher difficulty content, there are tank mechanics that target first and second aggro.

It doesn't matter and in extreme/savage you already need to do it as muscle memory anyways so you don't grief the party

If you are on roulette content or matched party, one tank is often way overgeared compared to the other(s). If the MT doesn’t provoke the aggro might slowly shift anyways to them, leading to more confusion.

Voking immediately after rez (and getting sufficiently healed up) can make sense for a few reasons:

1] Getting back up to the top of the aggro list ASAP for any mechanics that care about enmity (this is mostly a thing in high-end content, but there are a couple of normal duties that target based on enmity instead of role)

2] Positioning/Partnering for upcoming mechanics. Again, this is mostly a thing for high-end content, and it's not like tank positioning tends to be complicated (especially MT since we're on "keep the boss pointed in sane directions" duty most of the time lol), but the less people need to adjust for things going sideways, the better things tend to turn out. Making sure you're back in the MT seat and in the places MT is expected to be ASAP is going to smooth things over a lot more easily than adjusting until weakness falls off.

3] In 4-man content, the tank REALLY wants to voke ASAP after a rez lest their squishy friends suffer.

Point 2 doesn't really apply to most Normal Mode content, but the habit of "oh shit I'm back time to voke" can get lodged deep into muscle memory, especially when paired with any habits built up from Point 3.

At least hit a GCD or self heal immediately first then you can provoke, but it shouldn't be your first action.

that previously dead tank needs to get back to #2 on enmity as soon as possible. provoke is literally the tool that does that.

Aside from aggro-generation weakness doesn't change anything about tanking.

You generally want to keep whoever is MTing consistent especially if that determines a tank swap, specific cooldowns used etc.

Example: Warrior MT dies 30s before a double-tankbuster they usually Holmgang and take both hits because it's short enough cooldown to be up for another mechanic later where other tank invulns wouldn't.

Its less about weakness and more about health. Once they have enough health to not die to autos theres no real reason not to let them have the boss again.

Even with weakness none of the dps are going to steal the aggro.

When I'm main tanking, if I die and rez, as long as other tank has it, I'll let it go. This is especially true if I die to a mechanic I didn't see or remember, aka, I did a stupid. Only time I'll provoke is if I know I need to get back to the top of the hate list fast, because of tank busters or other mechs I know are coming up. In those cases, it's normally me in extreme content where that occurs.

In normal content it doesn’t really matter either way. In high end content that’s very normal because each have different positions/responsibilities.

If MT has kardia it's probably for the best that they get it back so the sage doesn't have to waste time swapping

There are sometimes tank busters that are targeted on the second in aggro, rather than just on tanks.

As the person usually 3rd in aggro after both tanks, I am typically the one dying to a stray buster when one of the tanks die or forget their stance.

Just deal with it. It's better for both tanks to be top two in aggro. Provoke back or OT.

Edit: Talking about Savage and Extremes. On duties it's whatever. Still cleaner to stick to your role as much as possible, so MT's insta provoke is still the right call unless there's something I'm not seeing. Rez weakness is nothing to worry about.

If I’m Main Tank, I’m mentally psyched to do MT mechanics. If I die, my instinct is to provoke as soon as possible so I can resume MT and not disrupt the OT, who already has their own mechanics to manage. Also it's a good habit for both tanks to be the top two in aggro at all times like what others have said, just so an inadvertent double tankbuster doesn't land on a DPS. So a tank Provoking asap after death should be the correct call most of the time.

The only exception is if both tanks clearly understand that aggro is fucked and they are officially swapping roles, either until the next mechanic or for the rest of the fight, because there is an imminent tankbuster swap coming or sth and they need to save Provoke/Shirk for that. But by default I’ll just provoke and take MT back if I die as MT.

Honestly it's probably a habit left over from Savage/Extreme/Ultimate content. At that level it's critical you get aggro back from the OT as soon as possible after you rez. Weakness generally doesn't make much of a difference to tanks anyway. Not to say it can't be a problem. It's just that we mitigate that problem by nature anyway

That’s correct course of action, tanks need to be on top 2 aggro list for most of the fight.

I always voke out of habit

If I die as MT and I know the fight has double TB's coming up, I wll voke and then shirk to get 2nd on threat. If it doesn't, then yeah I will use the OT's health as mitigation for a bit before I take it back. (edit: spelling)

because if the tanks aren't first and second in threat then a tank buster might hit a dps or healer.

I only do it if the ot isn't really geared for it or want to get to 2nd position quick then I shirk (or whatever it's called now) so I can drop back to 2nd.