Here we go with another help-me-decide post but I'm crippled with indecision between these 3 bikes (2 of which I already have on order but can return). It would be for winter riding in the Chicago area - places like the Des Plaines River Trail and various forest preserve trails. And maybe an occasional trip to somewhere like the UP.
Would install dropper post and studded tubeless Dillingers (depending on the bike).
Canyon Dude CF for $1699 - this is the sensible option given the price and Deore components but a bit wary of bypassing the local bike shop and/or having issues with service, plus no mounts for anything other than 1 water bottle
Salsa Beargrease Carbon CUES 11 for $2319 - seems super reliable and everyone loves the frame but seems like a budget build and knowing myself I'd prob start throwing money at to upgrade to XT-level components
Salsa Heyday! Carbon Deore 12 for $2639 - bit of a splurge but better components (Deore, SRAM level brakes), studdable Dillinger 5s. But the Mukluk / Heyday seems more for playful / technical / gnarly riding and a bit overkill as a winter fitness trail bike.
One more is this demo Panorama Chic Chocs 3 for $2500. Definitely overkill for my needs but tempting because it's less mainstream / more unique and the build seems top notch.
Got any of these bikes? Which would you go with?
My man…pick up the Salsa Heyday CUES at $1359.99. It has Dillinger 5s on it (no studs, but studdable.) It’s everything you need unless you are racing. I’ve had it for a month and am in love with it. I switched out the bar for something with a back sweep, but otherwise couldn’t be happier.
This is the way. Fat bike frame weight is a moot point IMHO. And winter is rough on components, so that's not really worth investing in IMHO.
What you want in a fat bike is tire clearance and 150x15mm thru axle / 197x12mm thru axle standards. You're also buying into the rim size. 26 or 27.5. I prefer higher volume 26 tires over 27.5 fat. I also prefer the widest rims available, 80mm mulefuts are the gold standard nowadays.
Personally, I think the Otso Arctodus is the best value fat bike currently on the market, almost solely because it comes with the only OEM 100mm rims on the market. The Salsa heyday (mukluk) is a little more affordable and would be my second choice.
It's ultimately your money and decision, you can't really mess up with the bike you listed. But aluminum or steel frames are a better value proposition IMHO.
Ok, worth considering but that 5lb weight difference was pretty noticeable when test riding a coupe of other bikes (old and new Farley 5). Maybe doesn’t matter in real life riding?
I went from a 10 year old "trash fatty" Framed MN that I rescued and heavily modified when I was a bike mechanic, to a carbon Fatboy with carbon wheels\crank\seatpost\bars\saddle rails (I went almost full weight weeny when I rebuilt the bike). The Fatboy could be 8-10 lbs lighter depending on configuration. I was real tempted by the Canyon, but when a used carbon Fatboy in my size popped up on market place it was too tempting not to just snag it.
I appreciate having a lighter starting weight when I know I'm going to be adding studded tires, extra layers, pogies, insulated bottles, etc. loading\unloading the bike from my rack is really the part of my ride where the weight difference is the most noticeable.
I only ride my fatty in the winter in the snow, and as soon as I'm geared up, huffing & puffing my way thru powder in the woods the 8lbs of bike weight is pretty negligible. Having lighter wheels does feel nicer for spin up and maneuverability.
I'm sure someone out there would disagree.
For me, once you commit to it being a winter bike and stud the tires the weight of the frame becomes pretty irrelevant. I’m riding this thing in a pair of boots, snow pants, backpack, pogies, etc. The studs make it feel sluggish on any surface but ice or snow. But I have tree-trunk legs and am in no way power-limited in my riding, so your experience may vary.
You're likely not actually feeling the difference in overall weight, but a difference in rotating mass. The bike you feel was noticeably lighter most likely had a lighter/better wheelset.
Going out on a limb here, but I'll bet that the Farleys you test rode were set up tubeless already, while the Heyday was not. As a HeyDay owner that spent a few months riding the stock Dillinger 5s with tubes before swapping out when winter hit for a set of studded Dillinger 4s I had hanging in the garage and setting em up tubeless, getting rid of the tubes makes a world of difference in rotating mass and rolling resistance.
All that to say: if you're riding at an elite level where you're at a point in your fitness that losing 5 lbs isn't realistic, go ahead, buy the lighter bike. But let's be real, someone riding at that level isn't cross shopping a couple of just above entry level bikes.
None of the bikes I test rode were set up tubeless. It wasn't a huge difference but definitely noticeable (old 30lb and new 35lb Farley 5). Also between the Heyday 26 and Beargrease 27.5 in terms of rolling resistance / getting going.
I have a Heyday Advent (basically the CUES but lower end drivetrain) I was able to snag for 500$ on Facebook. Its a great bike. I normally ride a carbon full suspension 29er but the fatbike slows me down enough that I can bring my dog on rides and still get a workout (though it still goes way faster than I thought it would).
The only thing I don't like about my Heyday Advent is the Tektro brakes. They suck straight up and will be getting replaced soon. Everything else is rock solid. Also I added a dropper and at some point I will probably add a Manitou Mastodon suspension fork but those are preferences.
Most fatbike riders aren't going to feel the weight reduction from a carbon frame. Its like 2lbs. If you really want to go fast invest in a good set of light wheels and reduce your rotating weight.
Objectively going with an AL Heydey makes a ton of sense but there's something about the feel of carbon bikes that I really like, and have 2 already (road and gravel). Probably matters a lot less on a fat bike though.
The biggest difference in AL vs carbon is really stiffness, not weight. The carbon feels really good on road and gravel bikes because of the added stiffness on such a light duty frame. Mountain bikes are much heavier duty and therefore stiffer by nature so it has less of an impact.
If you have money to burn there isn't anything wrong with the carbon frame though. Kind of depends where you are in life and what biking means to you. If I was going with carbon I go with a Pivot LES or the heyday or try to find a lightly used Carbon Trek Farley (they stopped making them)
Yup that makes sense. Trek does still make a carbon Farley - the 9.6, but it's almost $4K. Missed a chance to buy a barely used 2022 9.6 for $1800 but I didn't know enough then to appreciate that deal.
As a 47 year old man with two fat bikes in his shed and over $16k invested… not over time, just in builds… and a newly discovered spinal condition that suggests I avoid ANY physically dangerous activity… spend as little $ as you can. Focus on the joy and experiences the activity can bring you. I can honestly say I had more fun riding cheaper bikes … which by the way is almost any other bike than the two of mine… I didn’t stress about components and “is this the best” and this or that. I just rode. Components WILL BREAK. When they do, think of the experience you had with it and ask… will the performance difference even be noticeable to my riding capabilities? Three things I really noticed a huge difference with is high POE hubs, wireless shifting, and the kind of brakes that I finally learned to prefer. I’ve ridden almost every type of upgrade I could find and the stress of getting it just right and finagling and fixing and fussing mid-ride stole the joy right out of it for me. And I let it happen. If you can’t be sure that the extra $100 on a derailleur or an extra $250 on a crankset will make a difference …. save the cash for a rainy day. No XT badging or carbon-consciousness made a large enough difference in the kind of riding I did. I had to learn this lesson by trial and error. If you’ve got loved ones, put the cash aside for an experience you can afford to have with them after a day of riding. Your soul may be healthier and happier for it. Merry Christmas
That's very sound advice, and puts the amount of time I've spent obsessing about things like 3lb weight difference and how crisp the shifting will feel into the right perspective. 😭
Merry Christmas to you too.
As a soon to be 67 (haha, 6,7) year old geezer who still regulary crashes when he rides the fatty and has about $4300 invested in just my Fatty I would say. . .SPEND IT! There doesn't seem to be that much joy in the world right now, but my Fatty makes me smile everytime I look at it and more when I ride it. In fact it's my preferred ride instead of my DiVerge STR I built with Force/Red group. I do agree with AP95 about letting it happen. . .AND electric shifting. I have SRAM AXS on three bikes. Biggest upgrade in cycling since sincee index shifting (Yep, I have a first year Dura-Ace 6 speed, downtube shifter groupo I bought in 1983 or 84). Even the stuff I've done wrong has made me who I am. Get a gallon of Round-up, spray it all over your "Fucks Garden", and when you have no fucks to give--life gets better!
I’m in your area actually and have a Dude…I’ve had no issues with it the last couple years. It comes with the 3.8 minion tires which are just fine for groomed trails. It appears the frame will accept up to 4.5 when the rear end chip is flipped to the long setting. It’s really a steal for what they charge…I got mine for 1599.00 last year and free shipping. Adding a dropper was very easy. I ride a large and have a 34.5 inseam. A 170mm SDG Tellis works slammed all the way.
That’s great to know and yeah that price is really hard to resist for a 30lb carbon fat bike with Deore components.
Mine is older and 26" wheels, came with 4", but i use 4.8" Jumbo Jim's and Surly Bud and Lou's. Tons of room for both with rear chip flipped.
I love my Beargrease. Been on it for 3yrs now. I upgraded to carbon handlebars this year as carbon doesn’t conduct cold. I have a dropper but barely use it. I use a framebag which is way more valuable storage than a 2nd bottle cage.
I regret not checking into Otso’s bikes though. I may swap my parts over to an Arctodus frame due to tire clearance (I love snow riding). Many friends ride the Voytek because the bottom bracket is narrower than Beargrease and feels more like a mountain bike
You and me are exactly the same. Beargrease love, but envy for the Otso.
Otso's look great but more $$$. Would consider it more seriously if I was in Colorado or somewhere with more snow and hills.
Love my Otso. As someone else said above, life is short, enjoy it
We're in the same area. I have owned three fat bikes over the last 10 years and I have gotten to spend time on a handful of others. Tons of winter riding and racing experience. Honestly they are all going to work for your use description and all very good bikes.
I kind of disagree with your description of the heyday, but it's a good all rounder.
That Panorama is super cool. It also has the most potential as a warm seasons bike with a 120 mm Manitou fork.
Yeah that Chic Chocs looks to be an amazing bike. I feel like it would almost be a disservice to just use it for flat and boring trail riding around Chicago, though, and a bit hard to justify that much $$$ for a "demo" bike that's been through who knows what (vs say a brand new Dude for $900 less).
Potentially. I guess my point was that $500 for a suspension fork and it would be a really decent trail riding bike too (when most of the other bikes have more traditional geometry or couldn't take suspension fork over 100 mm). My fat bike has similar geometry to the Panorama and it's the first fat bike I enjoyed riding in non winter conditions. But you're in a position where you have tons of great options. You won't be able to make a wrong decision here.
The only thing I would add is that studded tires can scratch up everything they touch. So transporting in your vehicle is a no-go, they will scratch bike racks, and they will scratch floors and anything they touch in your house. Mine live in the garage and either get transported with special tire covers or a roof rack I have solely for winter fat biking.
Merry Christmas. Enjoy whatever bike you choose.
Beargrease. Lots of options and can also be used as a bikepacking rig. It’s basically an F-250. Mtb (with a separate wheelset) and fat tire and bikepacking rig. Beargrease you can’t go wrong.
yeah, that seems to be the consensus. if the Dude wasn't ~$600 cheaper with (supposedly) better shifters it would be a no brainer.
All good points. Go with what suits you and allows for some flexibility in what you want to do with the bike.
Weight is so important with a fatbike. Get the lightest possible bike or the bike that would take the least amount of cost and effort to make it light. Slogging through snow is already difficult, no need to make it harder.
yup not to mention getting it in and out of the trunk.
For riding the DPRT the Heyday is probably a really good option. Studs will be a must with how icy things can get with freeze/thaw and the 5" tires will help for any rough sections full of footprints. A beargrease might be a little better for groomed trails in the UP but you'd eventually want studded tires which can be a pricey upgrade. The Heyday would still handle singletrack pretty well which feels like a good all around option for how you'd use it.
there's something that draws me to the Mukluk / Heyday emotionally and for the sheer fun factor, but I have a feeling for the most part I'd just be pushing that extra tire volume around unnecessarily as those kinds of trail conditions will be rare around here.
Didn't see the Kona Wo on your list. . .lol. My suggestion: buy the cheap one and upgrade the shit out of it. My Kona has an aluminum frame, but with some upgrades it's at 27 lbs. (Hed tubleless Wheels, Carbon fork, SRAM Eagle AXS with an E13 cassete, SRAM XX Crankset, carbon bars). The 7-10 pounds I dropped make a HUGE difference. For the record, my Kona was $1699 and came with Deore 11 speed. The biggest weight saving is the wheels (and hubs!). Hed wheels come tubeless without the weight of tape. Good luck.
the Konas do look interesting, checking them out now.
what did you actually spend to get to that 27lbs though?? The Hed carbon wheels alone are $1600. 😲
I went with the cheaper aluminum wheels and they cost me $820 to my house. The Carbon fiber fork cost me $155 to my house (Used KHS), throw in another $5 for a can of spray paint. I think that's where virtually all of the weight loss came from. The rest of the stuff I just wanted because I like nice stuff! Actually, the carbon bars saved an ounce or two, but they are really nice compared to over-stiff aluminum bars (I cut them down a bit and they get unpleasant). The carbon crankset probably saved a half a pound but was really unnessesary. It did reduce the Quack factor a bit, but I added that after I was already at 27lbs. I could make it lighter by removing the dropper seat post, but I like having it even though I rarely drop it. Most of the stuff came from Ebay or googling and finding cheap (lol, relatively cheap) prices on stuff. The crankset and BB was $580 instead of about $800.
Still. . .all this is easy to justify. You're not wasting money on toys--you're investing in your health!
Hmm ok i didn't realize there was weight savings to be had with better aluminum wheels, that's great to know.
And haha yeah that's my go-to justification for anything bike related but it's obviously a stretch for some things.
I have a 2022 Muk carbon and love it— was planning on getting a beargrease, but found this one used. I upgraded to carbon bars and haven’t regretted it a bit. I’m in Florida, so my studdablle tires are a bit overkill— 🤣. But I’ve asked Santa for new tires—. Anyway, if I were you, I’d also be interested in panorama. All will be great. Have fun
glad you found something used. I've been looking for months on Facebook Marketplace and everything is either junk or ridiculously overpriced (asking more for used than new).
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The Canyon fits 27.5 x 4.5 depending on which one but I'd prob just go with the Dillinger 4 120 TPI which are actually 4.2 so close enough. And not really much to float on around here - it's gonna be mostly frozen dirt at least when it's cold enough.
I've looked at Farleys - almost bought the older (2022) Farley 5 but it has that weird narrow rear tire fit (comes with 3.8s). The new Farley 5 is 5lbs heavier for some reason, and I'd love the 9.6 but it's almost $4K and the tires aren't studdable.
Good luck
I live near you. I have about 20 miles on my studded Dillingers because of the lack of snow the past few winters. I even cancelled a trip to Minnesota because they had no snow. I have a carbon Beargrease that I built with Sram components. Hindsight I would have kept the Shimano drivetrain and just switched the brakes to Sram. All that being said I’m getting the cheap Heyday for my son and will upgrade it’s brakes before he rides it and switch the gears when he breaks the microshift. Long way of saying Heyday all day
Yeah, this is what I'm afraid of - investing in a bike (and studded tires) that mostly only rides well on snow and there's barely any. Guess the solution is to spend as little as possible and/or have an extra wheelset for the winter.
If you live in the area a good idea is to buy a bike from a local shop. Can’t go wrong with Trek. I have a Salsa dealer near me. I also have a second wheel set, the stock for summer and the other one for winter.
I have a carbon Mukluk. To me it’s probably the perfect fatbike. Yes, overkill for groomed trails but in the summer it’s a BLAST to ride. It feels like riding when I was a kid on this thing compared to the full suspension bikes I have.
If it snows here I take it out. If I’m heading to the beach it goes with me. If I just want to go ride the trails near my house I sometime grab it when I’m feeling like I need a change from full suspension bikes.
Don’t underestimate the difference between 4” and 5” tires on the snow and sand. There’s a difference in floatation.
Anyway, it’s my favorite and if I could only have one mountain bike I would take that or my trusty Bucksaw.
A farley with the 27.5x4.5 studdable tires should also be on your list. If you’re riding ungroomed hiking trails, like the DPRT, it’ll be really nice to have the big studded tires to get you over the ruts and foot prints.
I test rode the new Farley 5 (the older one doesn't have clearance for 4.5), but it's heavy. Not sure how they managed to add 5lb with the new version.
Would love the 9.6 but almost $4K and the tires and studdable so there's an extra $400 or so.
Yeah, thinking about your question again, and I would just go for the Dude. It seems like a great deal. Fat biking is so niche that you kinda need to try it out for a season or two to understand what setup will work best for you.
I have a ‘21 Farley with 4.5” studded Gnarwhals. I live in Madison, WI and pretty much only use it on groomed fat bike trails, or on the commuter bike paths after a snow. It doesn’t see too heavy to me, and I keep up with my riding buddies just fine if they’re riding carbon. I try not to overthink or invest too much in this bike, because I’m really not using it too much. For me, traction on snow and ice is priority #1 so I have it setup with studs, aggressive tires and upgraded brakes.
I think that some older Farleys came with 3.8” tires in the rear on the smaller frame sizes, but I thought they could still fit 4.5s. You might want to look into that.
The older Farleys are lighter - around 30lb for a medium. I'd get one if I could find one but they're hard to find now.
They put 3.8"s on the rear because they couldn't get enough of a rated clearance with 4.5"s but in theory at least some 4.5s should fit (like the Gnarwhals).
But yup, I think this is really solid advice and mostly what I will end up doing. Already have the Canyon sitting in an unopened box in the garage since yesterday FFS. 😂
I didn’t really consider weight when getting a new fat bike this year. I stuck with the SLX drivetrain as it’s reliable even if heavier than some other options. I decided to spend money on a Ti frame for corrosion resistance and wide tire clearance to go anywhere. I got an Arctodus Ti. Only a couple pounds less than the steel, but no more worries about paint chipping or rust.
Those looks sweet but dang are they pricey.
The steel one is much cheaper and on sale. Just a couple pounds heavier for less than half the cost
Check out State
I live two hours west of you. I used to live in Chicago and ride Palos. I have a Beargrease and a C30 Blizzard.
Here is a YouTube of a guy in Chicago who has a Dude. If I didn’t have these two bikes, that’s what I would get. It’s such a deal. It takes smaller tires, but you aren’t in MN. :) Canyon gives you so much for the money.
It has external cabling and one bottle mount. But get an insulated hydropack or a frame pack and pocket almost $1000.
https://youtu.be/No8i6aazpVY?si=oAp7f3CDoq1M-y-k
Saw that video and yeah it's kind of an impossible deal especially with Amazon Prime free shipping. So much impossible to resist that I actually have the box in the garage waiting to be opened 😂
(but I also have the Beargrease waiting for pickup at REI on Fri)
Honestly they're all good there but the Heyday and Chic Choc stand out as being "natively" able to take a big tyre. The others I believe can take a 4.8 on 26 but that's a big change to make.
If you've ridden fatbikes before you'll probably have a bit of a handle on this already but basically 3.8 is very different from 4.8, not just capability but feel. People often say 27.5 x 3.8 is good for a trailbike but...
Well, opinions. I can only say I am a big tyre person personally. I wouldn't own a fatbike if 3.8 was as big as they went, put it that way. And buying a 27.5 and converting it makes no sense.
But this is me, lots of people love 3.8. And other peopel love both, and that can work well- literally build a second wheelset and have summer and winter wheels. But me, I like gigantic blobbiness in summer as well as winter, 3.8 doesn't scratch the itch. YMMV.
I have literally no experience of the Chic Choc, I just learned it existed from your post but it looks frickin awesome tbh.
The Canyon can actually fit 27 x 27.5, or at least some (Gnarwhal or D5s). But I wonder how much that extra float matters in the typical conditions and trail types around Chicago.
Can someone explain CUES for me? Is it Deore-ish?
Yes, basic Deore. It's a "link glide" which is 10-11 spd Shimano products. "Speed glide" would be all the 12 spd products, like deore XT. 10 spd CUES is pretty damn close to the same gear range as another MTB product and rides very well in my experience.
Disclaimer: I ride almost exclusively SS bikes so this explanation might suck.
I've had a Dude since January 2018... NX components. I added Mastodon fork year one, and have thousands of miles on it. By far my most fun bike in sand, snow or trails. Zero creaks, no repairs. I'm debating buying another for my daughter to grow into.
That's awesome to hear. It's really hard to find anything other than very positive feedback / reviews about the Dude.
Beargrease no doubt :-)