19 Comments

all 18 comments

[–]slipknot_official 8 points9 points10 points  (10 children)

Do they all? No. Do some, sure.

Do some show the exact opposite? Yes.

So who’s trips show the truth and who’s don’t?

So what does that logically say? They can both be right because these experiences happen in a non-physical mental realm where a persons beliefs, expectations, feelings, etc manifest. It’s metaphorical.

Some people feel trapped. So they manifest and experience that. Some people believe in a larger picture and purpose, so they experience that.

[–]Sandi_T 3 points4 points5 points  (1 child)

This person is only partly right, but mostly wrong about NDEs. It's not statistically accurate that people's NDEs are according to their culture. This is a common and widely spread, never questioned misconception.

Even with the slight differences in surface level things, it's important to see under them to the archetypes. It's not unusual for Western NDEs to feature a tunnel and Asian NDEs to feature boats or trains. But underlying that is an archetype specific to NDEs: motion/ travel to another place.

In some NDEs, the person seems to teleport to their destination. Others fly upward. If you want to dismiss the cohesiveness of NDEs, you'd simply say that obviously these NDEs share nothing in common... Trains, boats, teleportation, flying; these are not exactly alike!

But they are a recurring archetype of travel, which is found in NDEs in every culture and every time period.

I'll BRB to edit in a link that will show how, statistically, people don't see their religious figure consistently and some people see ones thrive never heard of.

There are links to studies in this link: https://www.reddit.com/r/NDEWiki/s/tb6MsmHBba

[–]slipknot_official 5 points6 points7 points  (4 children)

I think it’s more of a cultural thing. In eastern religions and cultures their NDE’s are like river and ocean crossings. Ours are white lights, or Jesus which is a white light, and relatives.

I think it’s comes down to a more of a collective “subconscious” that were all tapped into. We share information that way, including beliefs. Then those beliefs can be experienced by anyone. But the underline metaphor isn’t objective. I think people can think their experience is objective and they can carry that into a belief system. But that’s more of an illusion of our condition - we believe what is in front of us as an objective thing. Reality is just deeper than that, especially at the mental level.

I’ve also had a prison planet trip myself. Never even heard of it before. But I grew up in a Christian house. The mushroom trip sent me to absolute mental hell. It took me months to get my bearings back. I thought I had died and went to hell. I thought I was being punished and imprisoned.

Years later after having OBE’s and deep diving this stuff, it clicked that my trip was a manifestation of all my religious upbringing - judgement, eternal hell for rejecting the one “true” god, punishment, etc. just all the underline fears that comes with these abrahamic religions.

Gnosticism is just a branch of Christianity. So the themes and metaphors are across all sects and branches. Just different versions of the same sort of “judgemental” god. What sends us to prison, judgement, a judge, for not following strict rules and laws. That’s a huge theme in western religions.

So the manifestation of that is a person truly believing they are being punished by an evil god, or a god that says he’s good but does evil acts.

[–]slipknot_official 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)

Check these videos out. When you really deep dive the origins, it makes sense to my entire "theory" or hypothesis. These ancient gods, and there were many, had specific roles - weather, fertility, crops, etc. And the people lived in very harsh environments in the (modern) Israel deserts. So as a product of their environment, they created gods that represented their environments - harsh, unforgiving, punishing, etc.

It was the same thing when Christianity was persecuted by the Romans - these people saw their god as testing their faith, or brining the apocalypse to rescue them (the end of rome). They were in a bad situation, and kinda used their version of god to get through it.

But gnosticism, and early christian gods stuff is super interesting.

https://youtu.be/EBiw5o2wrhU?si=86N3PhHgPlwWC8zy

https://youtu.be/K3koeHN-6mU?si=9fCumBWEmkv0fDZM

Yahweh was what became the Demiurge.

[+]WOLFXXXXX 4 points5 points6 points  (4 children)

"I've read several psychedelic experiences where all of the experiencers came to the same conclusion, that this is some type of prison for our consciousness."

Since 'several' is going to refer to less than 10 experiences - wouldn't there also be at a minimum hundreds of thousands of psychedelic experiences from around the world with a context that has nothing to do with identifying with the 'prison planet' ideology?

Something else to consider is that certain countries allow doctors/therapists to implement psychedelic therapy when counseling their clients for specific conditions (like PTSD). If individuals were likely to come out of psychedelic therapy sessions identifying with the 'prison planet' ideology - then that would clearly serve to make their conscious state and mental health a lot worse. So unless there is an agenda among all the individuals implementing psychedelic therapy to cause psychological harm to their clients - then something doesn't quite add up with the line of thinking that psychedelic experiences validate the 'prison planet' ideology.

To what extent are you allowing for the nuanced depth of an individual's psyche and the stored content within their subconscious to influence the nature of their psychedelic experiences and how they ultimately interpret it? Another factor to consider is the influence of the specific substance consumed, its quality/purity, and the amount of dosage that was consumed. How many individuals have reported a 'bad trip' because they simply consumed too much of something and otherwise would have had a positive experience if they had consumed half of what they actually did?

Years ago I watched an hour long documentary where two young adults had traveled to South American to partake in a Ayahuasca/DMT ceremony in hopes that it would help them to address the psychological afflictions they had a history of struggling with. I recall that one of the young adults ended up having a therapeutic reaction, and valued the experience - whereas the other adult had an uncomfortable, unpleasant reaction and didn't find any personal value in having gone through that. Which just goes to show how nuanced the effects of psychedelics can be for each individual depending on their state of consciousness and psychological profile.

[+]WOLFXXXXX 1 point2 points3 points  (2 children)

No problem.

"A lot of people seem to see the machine elves on DMT"

Personally I don't make much of it because it seems to be culturally associated with smoking DMT but not with every other substance that is capable of producing psychedelic effects. It's also a bit confusing because 'machine' is terminology that is derived from physical reality reference points, and is the reference to 'elves' supposed to be interpreted literally, or as representative of something else? If it's representative of something else, then why characterize it as 'elves'? Now, if individuals regularly reported life-changing experiences because they saw or interacted with 'machine elves' during their trip, then I might be more inclined to find it significant - however it seems more like a side show and not something that has inherent, lasting value (IMHO)

DMT effects vary depending on how it was consumed and how much DMT was consumed. Smoking/inhalation results in a very intense but short-lived experience - whereas the (ayahuasca) oral ingestion method results in extended (hours long) effects with lesser intensity. So if some college kids report they smoked DMT and saw 'machine elves' in a trip that only lasted a few minutes - I find that a lot less compelling and interesting. That's not something I would assign much value to, personally speaking.

[+]WOLFXXXXX 1 point2 points3 points  (0 children)

"What if it's not all hallucinations but actual places people's consciousness goes to when they're under the influence or open themselves up with this substance?"

My existential understanding and outlook is that our conscious existence is foundational and multidimensional. So I'm definitely not opposed to the notion of being able to experience other dimensions beyond physical reality - however applying a strictly literal interpretation to what is experienced while under the effects of psychedelics is tricky and problematic because we have to account for how an individual's subjective psyche or state of consciousness is potentially influencing the content or nature of what is experienced - and we have to allow for a context where the content experienced while in that state could potentially be a symbolic representation and meaningful on a deeper level rather than applying a literal interpretation.

Personally I'm more familiar with the reported experiences and conscious territory surrounding near-death states and out-of-body experiences due to medical emergencies. Even with regards to these types of experiences and this field of study - there's a lot of nuance surrounding how to interpret the nature of some of the content that's been reported by individuals experiencing that state of being. Is it something purely objective, is it something influenced by the experiencer's conscious state and orientation, is it something more symbolic and meaningful on that level, is it something rooted in the nature of consciousness and also beyond physical reality? Lots of relevant questions could apply that are hard to discern the precise answers to when it comes to interpreting the nature of these types of reported experiences.

[–]Valmar33 -2 points-1 points0 points  (1 child)

What's this subs opinion on all the DMT and psychedelic experiences showing people that this is a prison planet?

What experiences are we even talking about? I've not seen any legitimate accounts of such.

Besides, psychedelics are very sensitive to the contents of the psyche upon which they are acting, so psychedelics show the user what they resonate with, not necessary "the Truth". Psychedelics will so very often give users a personal truth, and that's it. But that does mean we are necessarily interpreting our experiences correctly.

I can say this as someone who has consumed Ayahuasca maybe ~25 times over ~8 years. And I have never encountered a lick of evidence for prison planet ideology.

If you want the truth... then you must go into psychedelics with a genuinely unbiased mindset unstained by pre-conceptions.

But prison planet cultists could never do that, as they are convinced they already know "the Truth".

What's your explanation to that? I'm not trying to troll or argue, just asking questions. I've read several psychedelic experiences where all of the experiencers came to the same conclusion, that this is some type of prison for our consciousness. To the creator of this sub, how would you adress this?

Cherry-picked, even faked "accounts", has to be. You don't just say this without having an agenda of some kind.