My top three reasons for not believing in the church are (in no particular order): 1. Their tax fraud 2. The long history of abuse 3. Racism and sexism
Each one of these on their own should be enough to leave, but somehow my TBM family members have apologist answers for these things or they are oblivious to them or they say "things will be alright in the end, the gospel is true, just stick with what you know."
But on one hand, having been raised in the church... I have found a lot of meaning and purpose in the church. I fit in quite well, even as a female. I also really have a great ward right now. I currently am called as the primary music leader and I do enjoy it. I also like that I can choose the songs and leave out "follow the prophet" and other cult chants. I have kids in primary. My husband is still on the fence about the church (see my other posts lol). My parents, grandparents, and a few aunts/uncles/cousins go to the same church building as my family (not in Utah). If I stopped coming, they would surely notice, even if I try to do it quietly.
I feel stuck and I don't understand why my family members and people I deeply love and respect stay in the church. Why do they stay? (I feel like I should know since I stayed in so long, but I have unpacked a lot of stuff and realize the good things I got from the church are not owned by the church.) I am inactive in words only. I don't know how to take actions to actually leave. Any encouragement and advice.
It just feels like I will never actually get out. Being PIMO for a long period of time probably won't work for me the way I thought it would. Especially considering my kids don't want to go to church every week either. Like same!
Also, the "Buying a Stairway to Heaven" mentality. Financial Prosperity = Callings and Authority. You're judged by your tithing receipts and professional career standing.
It's so frustrating how they act like it's not a prosperity mindset. But then constantly talk about the blessings that you get for living the "correct" way. And if you are not experiencing blessings, it's obviously your fault.
For us, it was the social aspects of wards that kept us in the church for so long. But… eventually that shelf also breaks once we realized that none of us really wanted to be there.
Yeah, maybe in a fantasy world all of my extended family will have the same response.
Don't forget, the BOM came from a magic rock in a hat.
That alone is a good reason to dismiss it as a fraud
Lol didn't phase my TBM self though. 🤷♂️
If someone believes that is something that can really happen, then they are capable of believing anything.
Believing in crazy things is very common and the truth is not important to them.
I’m honest enough to admit that the narrative with the urim and thummim and the breastplate is just as ridiculous as the rock in a hat, and I believed that as it was taught to me as a child.
The thing about the rock in a hat that gets me now is that it shows that what I was taught was a lie. An unnecessary lie for that matter.
I have so many friends that are about to exit or have recently left. I do not see regret in any of their stories aside from the sense of community. One family in particular says that they still want to be made aware of community style events so they can take their family and be a part of the general community but generally they are happier out than in. The community aspect of the church is a HUGE deal and one that folks have to work to replace especially with children in the equation.
My advice: Keep going and wait for a consensus in your family. Give yourself and your spouse permission to look at the reality of church history and take the missionary challenge for yourself. If Joe Smith was a con-man pervert pdf-file then the whole church is a farce. What you are left with is a country-club with monthly fees and funny underwear. Good people stay in because they want to be part of the country club and they can pinch their noses to drink the rotten kool-aid as a trade off for membership in the country club that makes them feel special compared to the other people in the world. The lie is that they can be the same people OUT of the church.
Eventually, the rancid juice will not be worth the squeeze. Keep studying and keep de-constructing. Family will judge you regardless of your decisions. Know that they are currently judging and scrutinizing your every move because that is what mormons are trained to do. Internal policing is part of the cult and you are going to get policed no matter what you do for the rest of your life. There will come a point when you just don't care, your family will exit the church and you will feel that policing. The best thing I have done for our families is to show everyone that we are better people for being OUT. "The best revenge is to live a good life." Forcing your family out is a common theme of hardship in this sub-reddit. You can start your journey out by cessation of tithing payments. The mormons don't need your money because YOU do.
Keep talking to your spouse. Open the forum for calm, logical discussion and allow your spouse to see what you see. Be patient and work on being your true self.
Yes! I need to remember to be patient. I'm just feeling so stuck. 💀
Be patient but don’t be quiet. You deserve to be heard. You deserve to have open and honest conversations with your spouse. You deserve to be you. You can absolutely lie to clergy if you are so inclined as they don’t deserve to know your truth. You don’t need their advice. This is a journey that your family unit is on. Being yourself is most important.
Just wait until you start deep diving into the history and doctrine, you’ll have a lot more than three items on your list!
I have a lot more than three, believe me. Those are just the TOP 3. ☠️
Fast is slow and slow is fast. If your husband is on the fence, the smart move may be to give him lots of time and space. I have faith that the church will do something heavy handed to push him of of the fence. You could also see if he drops any hints about what his shelf items are and magnify them.
Thanks! I just keep posting on this reddit to remind myself to be the tortoise and not the hare. I'm just an impatient person by default. 🤓
No worries. I think we all get that way. If hubs is on the fence you have a lot more to be hopeful for than lots of others. Good luck with it all!
Churches don't pay taxes in US jurisdictions. Are they guilt of tax fraud somewhere else or are you thinking of the SEC violations? A TBM will instantly dismiss this argument because you don't have your acronyms just right.
Yeah I'm talking about the SEC violations. That's how I usually say it. I was just getting bored of saying that over and over again. 😱😭 But apparently it means nothing to some of my tbm family. They are just like, "well they are paying the fine now, so they are fixing their mistake." Yeah, but what about them lying to us this whole time about it? Does that not matter?
It's the biggest fine paid to the SEC, ever.
They are only fixing the mistake because they got caught. this issue was brought to the attention of the first presidency 5 years prior to getting caught, but did nothing to make it right on their own.
They are on record as choosing boring fund manager names to hide.
They are on record for renting space and pretending they have independent offices.
If attorneys advised doing this, they would be disbarred.
The first presidency knew about it and actively hid the money.
They did it for the purpose of ensuring members keep paying tithing.
This alone is some absolute bullshit. Unethical and amoral assholes.
1 - They systemically lied to me
2 - My mission significantly screwed up my mental health for decades
3 - They took money based on the lies
4 - They don't think there is anything wrong with what they're doing
All the other stuff is bad, but those are the cruelest to me.