fox entertainment was yapping about poor persecuted christians (i genuinely do not care about a christian getting criticized)
and i said i would fail any essay with a bible quotes cause the bible is bullshit
he thinks the bible is not bullshit
fox entertainment was yapping about poor persecuted christians (i genuinely do not care about a christian getting criticized)
and i said i would fail any essay with a bible quotes cause the bible is bullshit
he thinks the bible is not bullshit
Technically, it is a 1st amendment right. However, that doesn’t mean it should be permitted as a credible resource (depending on the topic). In other words, people can quote it all they want, but it doesn’t mean they should pass.
Yeah it depends on what the assignment was.
Yeah if there qouting it for scientific reasons that legitimately is undefendable in most cases as the bible is either too vague or just plain wrong about a lot of things in science. For history you could use it as a primary document but as a reputable academic source hell no
I mean technically its not the 1A, because the 1A only protects against the government censoring you. Colleges are generally not government ran, so they 100% can censor you as much as they want.
In the broader sense of being free to speak your mind, you are correct though. You are perfectly free to quote the Bible, and the person grading your paper is perfectly free to flunk you on it because that wasn't the assignment.
Nope. First amendment applies to go the government censoring. Universities are largely private organizations and can pretty much do what they want. It's how the bible universities get away with so much absurd restrictions and polices on their students.
It's the fact that it is the government that cannot censor. Example, when Trump told the FCC to go after Kimmel for making fun of Trump's reaction to Charles Kirk dying because he rambled on about his ballroom instead of saying something about Kirk. That was a violation because it was the government doing it.
But ABC could have easily told Kimmel he couldn't do the joke and then fire him for it, without violating first amendment. Just like when they tried everyone started canceling Disney+ in protest, we were allowed to cancel/fire them for firing Kimmel and there is no legal issue with it. That's why Disney caved and told ABC to put him back on, because it was costing them a lot of money.
Though I agree with the rest of what you said.
Tell him it’s also a First Amendment right for a teacher to give someone a bad grade.
They absolutely have the right to quote the Bible. The First Amendment protects speech from government punishment, not from academic evaluation.
But if an assignment requires legitimate, scholarly sources, then Bible quotes (unless the class is theology, religious studies, or you’re explicitly analyzing the Bible itself) do not meet the criteria. In that case, failing the assignment isn’t persecution - it’s grading.
You’re allowed to write nonsense. You’re not entitled to have it treated as valid evidence.
If I wrote an essay on nanotechnology and cited Genesis to explain human origins, I’d deserve to fail. Not because I don’t have the right to say it, but because I didn’t complete the assignment.
Free speech doesn’t mean “automatic academic credibility.”
Also worth noting: the First Amendment only limits what the government can do. It does not require private institutions (including most colleges) to evaluate all speech equally. Academic standards aren’t censorship.
The Bible would be fine to use as a source if it's relevant to the material.
Trying to force Bible quotes into a science paper would be a sign that someone doesn't understand the material at all.
Pretty much this.
I've quoted the Christian bible in research papers with no problem. One was a paper on religious symbolism in a piece of literature. The other was a grad school paper that had to do with religious views on terrorism (my field being national security, it's highly relevant). Aced them both, at a public university with professors that I guarantee you are left-leaning. One of them is atheist and LGBTQ+. In both cases, it was an appropriate reference source, alongside scholarly articles and my own research work. None of those other factors mattered in the least.
It really isn't complicated, unless one's goal is to push the limits of how little effort and common sense they can get away with putting into each assignment.
Your dad keeps using that amendment, but I do not think it means what he thinks it means.
If this is the story I think it is, this person did not "cite" the Bible. She referred to it as a source but no scriptural references were actually used and she didn't actually respond to the article she was assigned to respond to in writing her opinion piece.
Yeah. She didn’t even cite it properly. Actual religious scholars even came out and said that they would have given it a zero as well
I read the paper and it would have been a fail in any theology class. She didn’t engage with the material and simply rattled off her opinions.
That's the biggest reason for flunking the assignment - the student did something other than the assigned task
Just because you have the right to say something doesn't mean you are immune from the consequences of saying it when you are supposed to be following the rubric for an assignment
If the verses are relevant and quoted correctly, then you can use the Bible like you would any other source.
Here’s where that breaks down with the girl from the University of Oklahoma:
(1) Her paper had nothing to do with the assignment. They were supposed to review an article and she went on a transphobic rant without even mentioning the article.
(2) She didn’t actually quote the Bible. She basically said, “I believe this because the Bible says so.” She did not quote any verses, nor did she even cite any.
(3) Her paper was rambling and incoherent. It had bad grammar and mechanics. It didn’t even meet the minimum word count.
She’s crying persecution because the TA who graded it happens to be trans and she thinks she can garner sympathy. She learned it from her mom who has a history of shit like this.
ETA - I saw professors from Bible colleges grade her paper based on the rubric and they said they’d give her a failing grade. It has nothing to do with the First Amendment. It has nothing to do with her being a Christian or even a transphobe.
Since she’s pre-med, I hope she enjoys the attention this is getting her, because no credible medical school is going to accept her if she’s going to do shit like this. No credible graduate school in general is going to.
It has nothing to do with the First Amendment and, at this point, everything to do with Fox’s ratings. I’ll never forget the day I was visiting my Dad and my old social studies teacher dropped by to say hello. She was the first person I ever heard, in person and living color, talk about how Christians are persecuted in America. I was absolutely stunned because way-back-when, she was neither stupid nor very “christian.” It was stunning because I realized she actually was serious and believed what she was saying is true.
It never had anything to do with the First Amendment. That’s the point.
It is the first amendment right to add Bible quotes in. But it doesn’t mean that 1. A teacher can not fail a student or give the quote a grade if the quote used has nothing to do with the assignment and 2. If the student didn’t properly sited the quote or made the connection between the quote and the assignment.
Both of whom the student failed to do so in the first place which was stated by the professor. In short she got a zero not because she was Christian and was being prosecuted but because she didn’t do anything right
Quoting the Bible might be relevant in some contexts, but probably only when writing papers about religion or religious history or something similar. Just like you wouldn't quote a car manual when discussing microwave maintenance.
First amendment also means you don’t have to believe in the Bible.
Is this the case in OK? If so, they fired the prof. Sounds like a wrongful termination suit should ensue.
Whether or not this is that case, ITA with the things others are saying here re: 1st Amendment rights, etc. the biggest problem with US xtians is a vapid understanding of the Constitution and how it works with re to their religion . Once someone takes the view they possess exclusive and distinct Truth and everyone else is terminally wrong the excesses and exceptionalism bleeds into every other area of civic life. And that essential problem wasn’t imagined in the Age of Enlightenment and the Founders’ worldview, rendering our Constitution particularly vulnerable to xtian fundie sabotage.
If the Bible verse is relevant to whatever your working on or if you’ve done the work elsewhere its fine. But you don’t get credit just for quoting bible verses
The first amendment, contrary to popular belief, does not grant you the right to say whatever you want and automatically be taken seriously by everyone who hears you. The first amendment guarantees that the government cannot prohibit you from expressing your opinions. That is it. Being given a 0% in a college assignment because you ignored the instructions and wrote a paper on a different topic than was assigned is not a violation of your first amendment rights and it is fucking ludicrous that that even has to be said. If anyone has had their first amendment rights violated it is most likely the instructor. After all she is the one who’s career has been effectively ended by the university’s response and it is hard for me to imagine that the university would be willing to throw away their academic reputation like they have for any other reason than the Trump administration pressuring them to side with the student.
Yeah, it absolutely is. You cannot be charged with a crime or imprisoned for including Bible verses in a paper.
Signing up for a class and then failing because you didn’t follow the directions of the assignment has nothing to do with this.
Tell him students do indeed have a first amendment right to fail a science course for basing their work on the bible without going to prison. Academic standards and first amendment rights would both be preserved in that case.
What he is really trying to say is christians have a constitutional right to get away with any bullshit they want.
Saying "poopy" is also a first amendment right. But answering "poopy" to any question other than "what does trump smell like?" Is gonna be wrong.
Q. What is 8 x 9?
A. Poopy.
You're gonna fail.
Wow, sounds like the two of you collectively comprise the pinnacle of secular intelligence.
First amendment right protects against legal consequences for speech. It doesn't mean all speech is correct or laudable.
Assholes only selectively believe and apply this argument. It's okay for them to be assholes,but not to be called out for their own actions.
Here is a simple explanation for your dad...
In the US, free speech is only violated when the government is the one doing the punishment. The First Amendment limits what the government can do. It does not control parents, schools, professors, employers, websites, or private individuals.
If the government fines you, arrests you, or jails you for what you say, that is a free speech violation. If a professor gives you a bad grade, that is not. If a school sets academic standards, that is not. If someone criticizes you, that is definitely not. A college professor is not the government. A classroom is not a public forum. Grading an assignment is not punishment for speech. It is an evaluation of whether you followed the rules of the assignment.
Free speech means you are allowed to speak. It does not mean everyone else has to listen, agree, or reward you for it. Once you separate “the government silencing you” from “other people not accepting your argument,” the confusion disappears.
Someone’s probably already written this, but I’ve watched someone go over that exact essay. 1) she didn’t even quote the Bible, just gave her opinions and said ‘the Bible says this’. 2) the whole point of the essay was to respond to the article. 2 sentences of the entire essay were about the article. 3) again, no citations to ANYTHING. Very elementary level work. We know she had a 4.0 or something so this was obviously a social media stunt. 4) the TA who graded it was trans, and the girl wrote nothing but anti-trans rhetoric, so many believe it was a specific attack
Criticism is not persecution. If Christians feel comfortable belonging to a group that spent gemerations taking advantage of people and killing people and being thieves and colonizers and taking over other people's lands and doing genocide against Polytheists and Witches and Gay people, then no one should feel bad citicizing them.
A person has freedom of speech to quote the bible (or any other religious text), but they should also expect a failing grade for citing a bad source which isn't based on evidence, especially when the errors in their religious text doesn't fit with science and history.