I see someone spreading 'memes' which is actually just nazi dogwhistling from alt-right spaces, so I call them out on it - and yet multiple people come in and downvote me, and then proceed to make fun of me for calling them out? Hello??? HAVE WE FORGOTTEN THE PAST AND WHAT NAZIS DID?
i actually fucking cant with these neurotypical imbeciles - i rightfully call out a nazi dogwhistler and THEY TRY AND DEFEND IT??? WHY DO NEUROTYPICALS NOT FUCKING UNDERSTAND THAT NAZI RHETORIC IS NAZI RHETORIC?!
As far as I'm concerned, anyone who defends nazi dogwhistling is a nazi.
or someone who doesn't realise it's a dogwhistle, hence the term dogwhistle
in which case the burden is on you to educate yourself once it's been made clear to you that it is a fucking dogwhistle.
ignorance isn't a defense.... we're soooooooo far past that being a valid excuse anymore.
but it wasn't originally made clear to me it was a dogwhistle until i came upon this post because i had never heard it being used
yea i am not directing my ire at you, per say.
but rather at the folks here the other day that kept insisting that we make an exception for them in community spaces for marginalized folks about how those dogwhistles are harmful.
far far too many people in this sub double and tripled down on racism because of "muh autism" while actively ignoring the reality of marginalized people who are also autistic.
demanding that we educate them with grace when they come from a place of entitlement.
again, not directed at you, sorry if there were a misunderstanding there.
The point of a dog whistle is that people don’t know it’s a dog whistle unless they are in the know and most people don’t look up nazi or even cult dogwhistles, expecting people to know what these dogwhistles are makes you no better than neurotypicals who expect everyone to be the same
except that is not at all what i am saying though is it?
if someone tells you that a fucking dogwhistle is a dogwhistle... it's on you to educate yourself about it... not demand that a minority person educate you about the nature and history of that particular dog whistle.
using your autism as an excuse is just bigotry towards other autists from those backgrounds with extra steps... and a heaping of ablest nonsense on top.
libraries, search engines, hell even soulless automata like chatgtp can do that for you instead of you demanding that someone re-traumatize themselves in order to educate you.
It's rather "wink, wink, nbudge, nudge", not hard to recognise it.
If you have 11 people and one open Nazi at a table, you've got 12 Nazis at the table
The same as antifa not really being a special group because if you're not anti fascist you're pro fascist
yea, being antifa is real fucking easy when you can identify fascism.
just don't be a freaking douchebag, and we're all antifa.
too bad there are too many that readily identify as profa though ;/
Or continuing the metaphor, they are not a dog and so they simply do not hear it at all. And so they think you are crazy for freaking out.
We really gotta stop thinking in binaries. This is more complicated than this top-upvoted comment makes it out to be. Dog whistles are designed to deceive, so like.... don't you think they sometimes work as designed? As the metaphor would suggest? I think they do work very well very often. Sometimes so damn well it's scary.
To neurotypicals the way you say things is much more important than what you say. You're allowed to be a nazi as long as you're not rude about it. But calling out Nazis? Very rude.
Ah the 'ol "yeah I was racist but you were mean to me and that's worse"
Or the "I had deeply held convictions about helping people, but some people were mean to me, so now Im doing a 180' and abandoning it completely"
Interestingly, all those deeply held convictions never show their face even before the "people were mean to me" event. Wonder why. (Sarcasm)
How is that only a neurotypical thing? Autistic people all the time insist that if something isn't said clear enough for them it doesn't count.
Yeah, but it's only bad when they do it. 🤭
the worst part is its always a hypocritical stance- "dont be mean to the nazi, your rude :(" "YOU WERENT RIGHT ABOUT SOMETHING IM ONLY HALF KNOWLEDGABLE ON YOU SQUIDWARD LOOKING MOTHER FUCKER-"
they cant be nice to people trying there hardest.
Not only did you say that in a subreddit that usually makes fun of people being expressive in a certain manner just like the one you performed, but you are also trying to make them see reason in a non-serious environment
I don't necessarily think the Agartha stuff is that bad, 99% percent of the time (outside an alt-right space) it's people making fun of the theory about a subterranean society existing - same goes for Yakub, 1 man and a following "creating" an entire "race" through selective breeding on an island "for evil"
That or just seeing weird visuals and vibing while saying weird words ironically
yeah like OP talks about how they should’ve made it obviously distinct from actual dogwhistling, implying joking about it is okay if you do that. what OP fails to acknowledge is… they totally did. that’s not how racists talk lmao. their references to yakub tend to be derisive, mocking the fact that black people believe in the concept- not simply acknowledging its absurdity. because let’s be honest, it IS absurd. calling the nation of islam “mormonism for black people” is a pretty accurate summary of the underlying theology. mentioning yakub and agartha in the same sentence basically only happens in the “agarthaposting” genre of shitpost, which is almost never done by actual alt-right agartha diehards.
also, i checked the original post, and it was a joke about someone finding an iconic piece of clothing worn by jeffrey epstein. epstein is kinda a rorschach test: whatever ideology one ties epstein most closely to is one they assuredly oppose.
it wasn't in the sub you think it is - just that they were obviously referencing it and mocking me.
and also, i do find the entire idea of agartha, hyperborea and yakub to be incredibly hilarious due to people ACTUALLY believing in that type of stuff.
But it's the fact that alt-right spaces have been spreading it is what ruins it and makes me hate it - they spread a meme around, it goes mainstream - and, in turn, gets people to spread their ideals.
I know that this is something that happens, but you picked the wrong example. Yes, alt-righters do try to normalize their ideology through memes, but they're not doing that with Nation of Islam beliefs. Because white supremacists and black supremacists don't tend to get along very well.
The meme is that this is meaningless word salad making fun of a bunch of conflicting fringe beliefs. It's completely harmless stuff. You just picked the wrong hill to die on.
Alt right spaces spread all sorts of shit. They try to claim anything they can get their hands on. Allowing them to, is a huge factor in why they can spread their shit. Pepe the Frog was not alt right, then he was, then people actively decided that was fucking stupid and did the opposite of what the alt right wanted, they shared Pepe as a meme for leftist messaging.
Reacting with rage to the alt right using memes, just gives them fuel. You have to mock them. The best weapon against the alt right will always be to mock them mercilessly, because your rage just gives them legitimacy.
wait it's not r/peoplewhogiveashit?
edit: yeah it's losercity, woops
my second guess was r/IDONTGIVEASWAG
What does all of that stuff mean? I’m out of the loop.
Hyperborea is what the Greeks thought land in the north was like, perfect sunny place, was linked to Nazis by "Esoteric Nazis" believing that's where the Aryan race came from
Agatha is a subterranean kingdom that doesn't exist which was believed to have "entrances" in specific places of the world, was linked to Nazis also by "Esoteric Nazis" believing that Hitler and co went there
Yakub is a mythological figure created by the Nation of Islam, founded in the USA, long story short he supposedly was a Meccan scientist from 6k years ago that "created" the "white race" (and others due to mistakes) through selective breeding alongside his followers on an island, I have yet to find a relation between Yakub and Nazism other than Agarthaposting (posting content relating to the previous concepts with humourous intent, such as memes)
Honestly their Wikipedia articles are great reads, and I might have skipped over some stuff on accident
Thanks for the information! I was so confused reading this thread because so many terms were being used that I didn’t understand. Sounds really interesting, it sucks how Nazis take things from various cultures and turn them into nasty things. Swastikas were originally a Buddhist symbol associated with peace, though the Nazi version is rotated. It’s common to see the original swastika in parts of Asia as it’s still used in its original context. The history of the swastika symbol is actually really interesting.
There was a Pokémon card that had the non Nazi swastika on it that had to be altered outside of Japan. The Pokémon Company most likely did not intend to represent Nazis in the card, it was just an unfortunate coincidence caused by cultural differences like with the Pokémon Jynx’s design unintentionally resembling blackface.
I hate when nazis try to taint every term. I'm writing a book where every country in it is named after mythological or esoteric spaces. Two of them are hyperborea and agartha. I hope people don't get the wrong idea...
I'm certain most people who agarthapost are doing it ironically, but the problem with that is that it attracts the people who are completely unironic about it and makes them feel comfortable.
This shit's like Beetlejuice. You cant invoke it, lest you risk attracting it.
Isn't yakub a nation of Islam thing
Also that shit's obviously being used ironically
Yes. Yakub is a black supremacist thing not a Nazi Thing.
Ok that's what I thought, I'm confused.
So is OP 😁
I think OP must've interpreted that as being a callout of the theory, and since it's a black supremacy thing then laughing at it makes you a nazi? idk
I thought Yakub is a parody of black supremacy. Maybe I've only seen the parody version.
I mean it's a real theory, and the real theory is very wacky. Which is why it's been memed to death
The entire point of that sub is laughing at people who take obvious jokes seriously. You basically did the thing they're all laughing at, so that's why you're being laughed at.
> but it's Nazi stuff!
Yes, it is. It is also "obviously" a joke. Agartha is currently a meme here and on instagram. They haven't forgotten, but they also don't think it's a bad thing to joke about it.
Now, please don't assume I'm defending anything. This is merely an explanation of why things happened. You have been informed; now do with the info what you will.
that's exactly how all this neonazi internet shit started though, being a nazi and doing nazi dogwhistles is never a joke
I understand that. It's probably better for people who understand this to avoid places like that, because they're always going to take the "just a joke bro" stance.
Can someone explain what the fox OP mentioned is? I love foxes and I’d like to know what OP is referring to for future reference, I don’t want to think “aww cute fox” when it’s a Nazi thing.
NTs will preserve benefit of the doubt even if someone literally does a Nazi salute in their face. As long as the person denies it, the NT person will respect it as "oh, maybe I did know, I don't want to offend."
The NT perspective is to avoid offending, to engage in social smoothing. It's fucking bullshit and allows abusers to hide behind the thinnest of excuses.
there are neurotypical people out there that do see past the veil of denial.
sometimes the person who was using alt-right shit like agartha didn't actually know about it being alt-right stuff.
But 90% of the time, it's an actual racist. so being suspicious about it is a good thing - especially if it's neo-nazi bullshit like that - in which most times, your suspicions will be correct.
They care more about performing the right rituals correctly and punishing deviation than what's right or wrong or what ideologies it's dangerous to let fester.
That user also posts on the schizoposters sub which is literally a right wing conspiracy shitposting sub… yikes.
Its just a funny sub tbh
I don’t really see what’s funny about posting straight up racist and anti-semitic talking points, but ok. I used to be on that sub when it was mostly unabomber memes about society having fallen with an air of irony to them, but then a bunch of outright Christian nationalist and “JeWs ArE cOnTrOlLiNg ThE wOrLd” type shit started getting upvoted before I decided to book it.
There’s really no way to “ironically” post racist Jewish caricature drawings imo, but I’d see that shit there on the daily before I booked.
I don’t see what’s funny about the grippysock supremacist either subs but clearly some people do
I know exactly what sub this is simply by the unfunny use of swag
it actually isn't that sub, it's just some people referencing that sub in another sub.
That's even lamer tbh
Ugh, between the alt-right, nazis, trolls, sociopaths, and bots, along with a toxic dose of brainrot most people seem to pick up after being online too much, we're kinda f'd. Like real world consequences of the cyber-hellscape....
Not seeing how it is related to NT really. Many people are racists, period. People attacking you for stating there's too much far right rhetoric are probably far right themselves. And it is not exclusive to NT. There are obviously assholes among ND people too.
...this is one of the largest memes right now, and more making fun of how dumb the whole theory is than anything else.
the world is not divided into good people and neurotypicals
I dunno, the agartha memes with yakub and ayran versions of people are made to be ironic and a total parody of Nazi ideology
Look man, I know you mean well, but it is absolutely not that deep. Ironic humor is just difficult sometimes.
Ironic humour is legitimately also used by unfunny people to get the benefit of the doubt when they are being racist. But I legitimately can't tell if the original comment was meant to be ironic, and every reply after, from both sides, was pathetic. This is when you step back and contact mods about your concerns, going off like that just makes the entire sub turn against you.
will admit that I was pretty rude in my earlier comments - but that's what happens when you're tired, on the verge of sleep, and also not in the best headspace.
i'm still adamant about hating nazis though, dont worry.
No worries, I've been there, and trust me, I've failed to step back and contact the mods more than my fair share - I know the right thing to do, but I tend to forget myself. It happens to the best of us.
See, the problem with such ironic humor is that it has a tendency to accidentally terraform a community for actual sickos. The naysayers are brushed off as narcs who just don't get it, and the sickos are assumed to just be in on the joke and get the benefit of the doubt. Over time the naysayers gradually leave in disgust while the sickos stay and attract more sickos, and, before you know it, there are enough sickos that they don't need the benefit of the doubt anymore. Boom! Sicko cesspool!
I never thought of it that way...
Even if it IS meant to be ironic, that's what the alt-right WANTS - spread it so they can spread their racist ideals about.
it's similar to this kind of joke
https://preview.redd.it/l6rw9f9brscg1.png?width=640&format=png&auto=webp&s=3cc185be943186504e6343d0bd7b1cf981353275
like obviously tylenol does not cause autism, and autism does not (necessarily) make you better at magic the gathering. but it's so ridiculous that it's kind of funny. if anyone starts talking about this shit in real life that's when there's a problem
My critique with this analogy is that people who think Autism is okay would be the kinds of people trying to encourage it, (either literally or through jokes or becoming more understanding) and in the same vein, the types of people who are okay with people being Autistic are more likely to be educated on misinformation and know that this isn't serious.
However, Yakub is a figurehead in an Authoritarian Religious Ideology, used to both justify the oppression of PoC, and the power imbalance of White people. It's necessarily a right wing ideology. Thus, it's more likely that someone making that sort of joke has some kind of Conservative bent to their ideology. And Conservatives are more likely to engage in meaningful intolerance or discrimination.
In short, I don't think this is as analogous as it might seem initially.
I don't really see the difference here? why is someone making a joke about how ridiculous this ideology is necessarily more right wing?
Because the source material is only circulated in Niche, Right-Wing spaces.
The average person won't know who Yakub is, but thanks to the public presentation by the Trump Admin, most people are broadly aware of the meme that is Tylenol and Autism.
As the Tylenol issue is a public phenomenon which a large portion of the population is already naturally skeptical about, (in regards to it being false) people will be more willing to engage in dismissive behavior like making jokes, as the collective consciousness can identify that it's a joke and not to be taken seriously.
As Yakub is niche, and the average person has no idea about that mythology, the only people who are going to be dismissive are people with prior understanding, or have a different explanation for their metaphysical beliefs. Thus, it's easy for it to be spread as disinformation, and requires effort to combat as most people don't know how wrong it is in order to combat it.
Tylenol is a common idea that people already know to reject. Yakub is an unusual idea that people don't know how to handle.
None of that makes it LESS ridiculous, if anything it's MORE ridiculous.
I mean, both are ridiculous, I just thought the conversation was about the harm.
It's probably more likely that someone will decide to avoid taking medication because they heard about it causing autism than they are to join the Nation of Islam because someone said something about this weird Yakub guy
I agree, but that's because of information volume.
More people know about Anti-Medicine Conspiracy stuff than people who know about the Nation of Islam. Thus, more people are going to be prone to making bad decisions regarding Tylenol and being pregnant.
But the joke that person is making about Tylenol and Autism isn't harmful, since it's generally promoting a positive relationship with Autism. Whereas the invocation of Yakub is meant to be derogatory.
It is not that similar because taking 10 tylenols is obviously exaggeration and people who believe Tylenol causes autism don't want to take Tylenol, and what the first comment said has no distinction from what people who truly "believe" in that say
What the alt-right wants is for us to obsessively treat them like they're a united front instead of a disorganized mess of pathetic manchildren, because it makes them look more appealing to their future victims.
Stop making it worse. Please.
folks like you give rhetorical ground for "jokes" like this is why nazi fucks are so prevalent IRL.
these are not "jokes".
The rhetorical ground is paved with infighting far more than anything else. Stop doing their astroturfing for them.
standing up for myself and my community is astroturfing now... apparently.
piss off.
Definitely astroturfing... Mods, get this clown out of here.
They aren't the clown here
Neurotypicals are all about “reading between the lines” until a Nazi shows up
https://preview.redd.it/73m3jjlpyscg1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e710aa61de3b17ecf4e0e7c66cceeae6f467a73d
Me, trying to figure out what dogwhistling even is in this context
because those things arent really seen as dogwhistles so much as they are seen as ironic memes?
ive genuinely never seen anyome reference agartha outside of being satirical.
oh my fucking god the "swag" thing from "peoplefuckingdying" i hate it so much. An entire fucking community of people who hold the philosophy of "it's not that deep" which is everything wrong with today's world
I hate that community so fucking much
People have a scarecrow image in their mind of people who call everyone nazi's.
Meanwhile your claim provided no context. It just seems like a big assumption that's immediately aggressive.
I don't disagree with you OP, but normies take accusations of being nazi so seriously they would rather call you out for the accusation that believe it to be true. It's kind of like the people who instinctively defend people accused of SA.
In America, we had the current president literally quote Hitler.
Some people(more of them neurotypical simply because of the ratio of nurotypical:nurodivergent) have the authoritarian personality. Others either they dont see the whistle, which is designed to be unheard by the average person, or they do and they want to keep it being unheard.
The first person will see it as you flipping out over nothing(as designed) and respond accordingly. The second has an invested interest in making it look like you are flipping out over nothing.
What was the Hitler quote?
Don't waste your effort on that subreddit. I don't have to look up your history to know what it is, and it's genuinely one of the worst there is on the site.
You're not in the wrong here; allowing Nazis any room at the table is how people like Trump get into power.
from another comment i made 'it actually isn't that sub, it's just some people referencing that sub in another sub.'
Ok, fair.
I do think if we have the energy we should push back whenever possible. Even if in the moment it will not accomplish much but at least it shows that not everyone agrees with them, especially in such bubbles.
Bro has a Degaulle quote in his bio, ion think hes a nazi
oh my fucking god this god posted in r/peoplewhogiveaswag what did you expect? the whole point is to not take themselves so seriously
Funny how every comment denouncing nazism is getting downvoted 🫠
I thought this was about r/schizoposters but I checked your profile and it's... r/losercity??? What??
I'm not saying this is the case here
But dog whistles are dog whistles bc they can be denied. Many people don't know dog whistles.
I only know a couple to look out for. Like I don't understand most of what's being said in those screenshots. So it's possible a few may be down voting you bc they don't know any better. Or their nazi friends are brigading. Both are real possibilities.
Not so much a neurotypical thing. You are probably arguing with a bot hosted in Russia.
How do you know they're NT?
This might not just be an issue with Neurotypicals in a broad sense. While they may be inclined to downplay the seriousness or severity of an otherwise hostile statement, people who are also interested in perpetuating Fascist talking points, regardless of their normative mentality, will engage in defense of Fascist ideology.
The use of irony to hide their true intent is indicative of an underlying desire to normalize the language by making it seem benign. A common tactic among Fascists.
It's theoretically possible you weren't even talking to a different person, just an alt-account designed to run defense and appear as though it's a separate bystander.
So it's not the swagreddit, that's good i guess. They (from the peoplewhogiveashit subreddit) really are treading the line between making fun of people overreacting and being insensitive or downright nazis. Tho for now i will just assume it's someone using that subreddit as a disguise for their racism/supremacy.
i lurk around swag central and they seem mostly left wing
not enough people have been calling out this trend and that's so weird to me
They were not people being blind, they were fellow Nazis amusing themselves with word games. Never forget the words of Sartre.
Is everyone that you interacted with in that thread or post NT?
Anyway, the answer is...most don't. Folks that do are either nazis, white supremacists, or just plain old racists.
I can already anticipate the replies, but shrug, I guess?
The agartha joke on its own isn't what gets me, since a lot of people use it as a joke to make fun of those people, but I saw the og commenter in that thread and their pop was a character made by a nazi, and those two things combined are very telling on what kind of person that is.
Yakub is from Black Nationalist movements like Nation of Islam.
What are you talking about?
i think your overthinking it man
im js spreading the gospel okay
The agartha meme is so sinister and I am sick of the "it's just ironic" excuse. That was the exact same excuse given ten years ago when people started making racist pepe memes. It starts out just being ironic or edgy posting. Then suddenly you go down the rabbit hole of esoteric nazism that agartha is. So this does not bode well and I am genuinely afraid.
I bet whoever downvoted me is the exact type of person I'm referring to.
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I just got auto banned from this sub for making anti Nazi comments in gb news which is a bit annoying tbh.
I had to delete all my opposing comments there to be unbanned which is frustrating.
what the fuck is ironic and isnt ironic anymore i cant fucking tell
Those first two though, omg
https://i.redd.it/w3jxr8sk4zcg1.gif
I don't think neurotypicals know what Agartha is or who Yakub is.
Well consider that if its a dogwhistle working appropriately, many people simply do not hear it and they think you are crazy. That's the device working properly.
So just don't be frustrated with people about it unless you know they are the perpetrator. If they are merely someone who does not hear the dog whistle, patiently explain the predicament. Take the metaphor more seriously.
A very well played, very sharp dog whistle will make you look crazy if you try to explain it to humans who can't hear it. So I think your approach above is totally understandable, but in a way the exact wrong way. Don't get upset/frustrated and angry with someone who can't hear something designed to go unheard.
Agartha is such a weird meme because most people don’t think it’s actually a Nazi dog whistle and it is funny to make fun of conspiracy theorists but like the joke is just Aryanism. The nihilism of internet culture is incredible lol
Many people in the USA do not realize how much the Nazis took from our genocidal expansion into "the west" and Jim Crow. They just know we "beat the baddies in ww2." They don't actually know much beyond that. So in the end, they agree with Nazis much more than they often realize.
OH YEAH the "swag" COMMUNITY yeah i don't KNOW what's going ON IN there apart FROM centrist shit LIKE "it's cool to not give a fuck about anything" JUST block them, IT'LL help your MENTAL health /srs /nm
Unfortunately, antisemitism is very normalized on the internet right now. It's a constant barrage.
I appreciate you taking issue and defending jews, it means a lot even if people are jerks
Maybe it has something to do with pattern recognition? Which is crazy, because it's fucking obvious what is happening.
So you know a lot of these people are in Russia, India, Pakistan at bot farms. They are going to say whatever gets people who can read and use technology (liberals) heated and waste their time.
yea...
this is some toxic elder scroll fan that is 100% pushing nazi dogwhistles.
sick shit.
God, I hate so many TES fans, the same kind of people who think there are good guys in 40K
all fandoms have a toxic contingent. because toxic people consume the same media the rest of us do...
they just never learn anything from it.
Completely agree, doesn’t make me dislike the chuds who take up space in my interests/hobbies any less.
Fun fact: Everybody on reels goes to hell
Does that imply whenever someone makes 9/11 jokes they actually are terrorists?
Oh hey, it's the person that instead of giving information about how it could've been irony, instead made fun of me and posted me on that fuckass subreddit!
wow! how smart of you! you deserve all the love in the world!
I don't know why I would've tried explaining why it was satire because they already tried in the post. Also I deleted the post so I hope that stops the harassment you've been getting.
Obviously, everyone is wrong about this but me.