Countries without a threat regularly have very low defense budgets (around 1-2%), only countries wanting to use military force or fear threats by military force pay more.
It gets complicated with the EU and whether you make national or European threat assessments as well. If you told germany to invest in their defense Eastern Europe would be fucked because Germany could declare itself a big Switzerland, just pay for a militia army to ensure their defence and be fine. But that is not what we want to see here.
The issue is no matter how much one would spend, individually these countries will get stomped. Hell, even if all of Europe bands together (would be something of a miracle), what chance do we have against literal Asian hordes? Short of a nuclear response, of course.
What can I say, beyond the fact that I hope you keep your positive outlook for when my family and millions others move farther west to escape the Russians when they inevitably push beyond Ukraine.
China can, Russia can, but Europe can’t because they’re used to the leech lifestyle. Invest nothing, build nothing, pay nothing. Tax and fine then cry. A continent of has beens where ambition and self respect go to die.
It would be nice if American companies would pay their fair share of taxes.
Nobody forced America to have military bases everywhere in the world it is if like it was useful for us world wide dominance to project power. But luckily USA is in decline and now us Europeans have to do more for our own interests
mid terms are coming in US and Replublicans might loose majority in the senate so we might see less of retarded decisions being made. But that doesnt stop from trump saying bunch of dumb shit
I hope the MAGA traitors lose, but betting on it AGAIN would be exceedingly foolish.
EDIT: And the midterms probably aren't enough no matter how badly they go for the GOP. With the Supreme Court badly compromised, Executive Orders would still go a long way, even with Dem Majorities in Senate and House.
Thank you. While it would be nice to have one less deep red government pillar propping up Trump's rear, the stopping power seems lacking. Still has his royal Power as confirmed by the supreme Court and a lackey cabinet.
The stupid piece of shit is actively dismantling rule of law and wrecking the economy, I don't even need to mention foreign policy to call him and everyone of his supporters a traitor.
But bending over backward to please Putin and actively ruining US alliances is treason too and not because the allies don't like it. It hurts the US too
I realize that this is (hopefully) mostly paranoia on my part, but when I imagine the future on the path we're on now, I imagine some 22nd-century history teacher teaching their class about the 21st century, and having to answer questions about how it was possible that Europe couldn't see the events of the 2030s coming, in much the same way that current history teachers explain (with the benefit of hindsight) how the Treaty of Versailles made WW2 inevitable.
"The president of the USA, when running for election in 2024, said that if Europe didn't pay the USA enough for security, he'd not only not intervene if Russia attacked the EU, he'd actually encourage Russia. And then he got elected. Why on Earth was the EU still depending on the USA for its security in 2026?"
"Well, you have to remember that many people in the EU hated 'wokeness' and actually wanted the EU to fail".
"What does 'wokeness' mean?"
"We'll cover that next week when we discuss the early days of social media."
It's not like nobody saw this coming miles away... Also Putin has been playing the long game for ages, while everybody else only cares about quick profits or short term benefits.
I guess that's the effect of dictatorships vs short term democracy terms.
The truth is that the world especially the Global South never cared about international law or the rules-based order.
The West caused many grievances to them, and they responded with hatred and/or apathy, so why is it surprising that they don't want to be second-class citizens in this world order?
Lol as a Norwegian i am also ashamed at how pathetic Stoltenbergs responses are.
Appeal to unity and cooperation is the only thing the Labor Party does here and they are unable to think otherwise. Nicely reflected in how Stoltenberg on autopilot responds.
Trump was right and I applaud America for finally taking a stance and not putting up with he nonsense. You should also start applying economic pressure on Europe the way they are taxing your companies through fines to generate income.
His response was pathetic. Trump said the same thing at the UN and German diplomats were filmed laughing. Just a few years later Trump was proven right as Russia cut gas to German during the winter and Ukraine was forced to bomb Nordstream2.
We aren’t going to put up with EU’s idea of income via regulation much longer. Out of the top 20 global companies by market cap, 18 are US and none are from Europe. Trying to compete by regulation isn’t going to work and it’s frankly pathetic.
The entire model of European countries has been exploiting other nations for centuries.
It has to stop at one point.
Also the entire Ukraine war is also about the resources in the eastern parts of the country. If they really cared about the Ukrainians they would not endlessly encourage and send their men into the bloody meat grinder. They would instantly insist on peace talks.
The US tries but EU is heavily invested in having their own outcome come true. Also they will never allow Trump to be the one to be behind a peace deal. Look at how they refeused to give him a Nobel peace prize despite him actively trying to end conflicts, and how they reacted when FIFA gave him one.
I for one hope your intelligence agencies explores the intenet and bans everyone who keeps spewing anti American hatred or disrespects your government from entering. You dont need that kind of energy or that kind of people in your streets. I don't always agree with everything you guys do, and you did get engaged in wars that have been pointless, but the great thing about you guys is that you will always end up doing what's right in the long term
Well Germany already is putting some of that military money into infrastructure (reasoning being that is something happens German, belgian french and whatever military needs to get there quick).
And any momentum to kickstart the sleeping German economic juggernaut is more than welcome.
A simple search where Rheinmetall is opening new factories will confirm it. Also the rates of billionaires increasing their wealth. With 0% growth since 2019 I wonder where their money come from...
Lettland is a great partner and having a factory there is a good sign for example. u/HealthyCapacitor is an anti-europe shill for whatever reason there might be.
Trump doesn’t care about EU. EU is all on their own in case of anything. It is only the right thing to militarize EU countries. Bringing mandatory conscription would be a great step. Europe has lived in the fairyland for too long by trusting US on the defense side. They(European countries) are slowly waking up from their sleep, however, late.
Trump says Europe will be changed in 20 years. He has managed to make the USA unrecognizable to its friends in 12 months. Knowing for some time that America is no longer the friend and ally of Europe we must pivot away from the USA. it will take time but there is no going back.
Is it smart to think about countries as people with close friendships and personalities? You sound like you're talking about an old best friend or something. But these are countries with finite resources and rapidly changing strategic priorities. I find the naivety extemely jarring
The united states looks exactly like it always has. Just open a map if you don't believe me.
They at least used to be more subtle. I never heard Biden or Obama or even Bush advocate for the dissolution of the EU or openly supporting far right governments.
While Europe ponders transitioning to a war time economy in the next 5 years, Russia has completed that transition 2 years ago. Europe bets on the NATO alliance to keep its safe. As for China, well they lead the world in production of weapons system of every type.
Countries should invest in their defence regardless.
They do. The issue is threat assessment.
Countries without a threat regularly have very low defense budgets (around 1-2%), only countries wanting to use military force or fear threats by military force pay more.
It gets complicated with the EU and whether you make national or European threat assessments as well. If you told germany to invest in their defense Eastern Europe would be fucked because Germany could declare itself a big Switzerland, just pay for a militia army to ensure their defence and be fine. But that is not what we want to see here.
Yeah, like the US wasn't gonna be forever reliable now anyway.
They’ve still not been unreliable regardless
The issue is no matter how much one would spend, individually these countries will get stomped. Hell, even if all of Europe bands together (would be something of a miracle), what chance do we have against literal Asian hordes? Short of a nuclear response, of course.
What Asian hordes are you on about?
Central and Western Europe is one of the safest places to be in the world right now.
What can I say, beyond the fact that I hope you keep your positive outlook for when my family and millions others move farther west to escape the Russians when they inevitably push beyond Ukraine.
If some countries stop licking Putin´s boot we stand a chance at this not happening at all.
China can, Russia can, but Europe can’t because they’re used to the leech lifestyle. Invest nothing, build nothing, pay nothing. Tax and fine then cry. A continent of has beens where ambition and self respect go to die.
It would be nice if American companies would pay their fair share of taxes. Nobody forced America to have military bases everywhere in the world it is if like it was useful for us world wide dominance to project power. But luckily USA is in decline and now us Europeans have to do more for our own interests
Who cares about America paying their fair share. Fuck them. We should be in a position to tell them to fuck themselves like China does.
so you complain about Europe being leeches but when America does the same its a nonissue?
Does China care?
you tell me
Did you drink all your MAGA juice at once? You know you´ll have a tummy ache we told you!
Europe would better arm quicker. US and Russia are bff now.
mid terms are coming in US and Replublicans might loose majority in the senate so we might see less of retarded decisions being made. But that doesnt stop from trump saying bunch of dumb shit
Yes, might.
I hope the MAGA traitors lose, but betting on it AGAIN would be exceedingly foolish.
EDIT: And the midterms probably aren't enough no matter how badly they go for the GOP. With the Supreme Court badly compromised, Executive Orders would still go a long way, even with Dem Majorities in Senate and House.
Thank you. While it would be nice to have one less deep red government pillar propping up Trump's rear, the stopping power seems lacking. Still has his royal Power as confirmed by the supreme Court and a lackey cabinet.
You're Austrian. Be very precise about what makes Trump a traitor from your perspective as a non-American
I wonder if you think of your self as a non-tax paying american entitled to a friendly government in Washington
The stupid piece of shit is actively dismantling rule of law and wrecking the economy, I don't even need to mention foreign policy to call him and everyone of his supporters a traitor. But bending over backward to please Putin and actively ruining US alliances is treason too and not because the allies don't like it. It hurts the US too
We can't let our security depend on whether or not they'll elect another lunatic on the other side of the ocean every four years.
I realize that this is (hopefully) mostly paranoia on my part, but when I imagine the future on the path we're on now, I imagine some 22nd-century history teacher teaching their class about the 21st century, and having to answer questions about how it was possible that Europe couldn't see the events of the 2030s coming, in much the same way that current history teachers explain (with the benefit of hindsight) how the Treaty of Versailles made WW2 inevitable.
"The president of the USA, when running for election in 2024, said that if Europe didn't pay the USA enough for security, he'd not only not intervene if Russia attacked the EU, he'd actually encourage Russia. And then he got elected. Why on Earth was the EU still depending on the USA for its security in 2026?"
"Well, you have to remember that many people in the EU hated 'wokeness' and actually wanted the EU to fail".
"What does 'wokeness' mean?"
"We'll cover that next week when we discuss the early days of social media."
It only takes two idiots to ruin the whole world. Thanks Putin and Trump. 👍
I think there are a few more autocrats out there that enable both of these.
It does take millions to enable them though, at some point or another
As a race for all our technological continued progress the species itself really is a two steps forward one step back kinda thing
It's not like nobody saw this coming miles away... Also Putin has been playing the long game for ages, while everybody else only cares about quick profits or short term benefits.
I guess that's the effect of dictatorships vs short term democracy terms.
Those two idiots are just symptoms.
The truth is that the world especially the Global South never cared about international law or the rules-based order.
The West caused many grievances to them, and they responded with hatred and/or apathy, so why is it surprising that they don't want to be second-class citizens in this world order?
Finally Germany? We told you 7+ years ago.
Proof: https://youtu.be/M5MJEMHZZsI?si=C7ERzv-bPtbcQxqD
Lol as a Norwegian i am also ashamed at how pathetic Stoltenbergs responses are.
Appeal to unity and cooperation is the only thing the Labor Party does here and they are unable to think otherwise. Nicely reflected in how Stoltenberg on autopilot responds.
Trump was right and I applaud America for finally taking a stance and not putting up with he nonsense. You should also start applying economic pressure on Europe the way they are taxing your companies through fines to generate income.
His response was pathetic. Trump said the same thing at the UN and German diplomats were filmed laughing. Just a few years later Trump was proven right as Russia cut gas to German during the winter and Ukraine was forced to bomb Nordstream2.
We aren’t going to put up with EU’s idea of income via regulation much longer. Out of the top 20 global companies by market cap, 18 are US and none are from Europe. Trying to compete by regulation isn’t going to work and it’s frankly pathetic.
The entire model of European countries has been exploiting other nations for centuries.
It has to stop at one point.
Also the entire Ukraine war is also about the resources in the eastern parts of the country. If they really cared about the Ukrainians they would not endlessly encourage and send their men into the bloody meat grinder. They would instantly insist on peace talks.
The US tries but EU is heavily invested in having their own outcome come true. Also they will never allow Trump to be the one to be behind a peace deal. Look at how they refeused to give him a Nobel peace prize despite him actively trying to end conflicts, and how they reacted when FIFA gave him one.
I for one hope your intelligence agencies explores the intenet and bans everyone who keeps spewing anti American hatred or disrespects your government from entering. You dont need that kind of energy or that kind of people in your streets. I don't always agree with everything you guys do, and you did get engaged in wars that have been pointless, but the great thing about you guys is that you will always end up doing what's right in the long term
We know its you, Elon, don't pretend.Just pay the fine, mate, you deserved it.
r/bdsm
Xi certainly has a lot of sway over Putin too.
Kinda sad this is what it took for Europe to take its defense seriously
This is a good news.
Although it would have been best to start investing in military after putin's invasion of Crimea in 2014 instead of investing in his gas pipelines.
By now this goes without saying. Hindsight is 20/20.
1992: Moldova, 1994 and 1999: Chechnya, 2008: Georgia, 2014: Ukraine.
Hindsight was not needed.
What has the world come to, it’s just insane, all these old leaders, losers , narcissists, not Getting along and we all pay for their decisions,
Wish your take was the majority, but the majority is playing sports teams.
It's just a shame that it comes at a time when EU is facing such an economical crisis. But it must be done, better safe than sorry.
If done well it could even help the economy.
I agree, investing in the military helps the economy and drives innovation. We need both of that.
Defence expenditure has one of the lowest returns on investment of any government expenditure, sadly.
Well Germany already is putting some of that military money into infrastructure (reasoning being that is something happens German, belgian french and whatever military needs to get there quick).
And any momentum to kickstart the sleeping German economic juggernaut is more than welcome.
It won't kickstart anything because it's just a scheme to transfer taxes into rich people's pockets; the new factories aren't even built in Germany.
Yeah sure it is. Thanks Igor.
A simple search where Rheinmetall is opening new factories will confirm it. Also the rates of billionaires increasing their wealth. With 0% growth since 2019 I wonder where their money come from...
But factories opened abroad dont profit from German public investment schemes. Also abroad in this case means mostly western aligned nations
Lettland is a great partner and having a factory there is a good sign for example. u/HealthyCapacitor is an anti-europe shill for whatever reason there might be.
Export can help, though
During peace I would agree.
But Wartime expenditure? I would disagree.
Don’t do this. This is a dangerous spiral.
Trump doesn’t care about EU. EU is all on their own in case of anything. It is only the right thing to militarize EU countries. Bringing mandatory conscription would be a great step. Europe has lived in the fairyland for too long by trusting US on the defense side. They(European countries) are slowly waking up from their sleep, however, late.
Trump care about EU, but as adversary, his wet dream is collapse of EU and split Europe with "sphere of influences of great powers" concept
Trump says Europe will be changed in 20 years. He has managed to make the USA unrecognizable to its friends in 12 months. Knowing for some time that America is no longer the friend and ally of Europe we must pivot away from the USA. it will take time but there is no going back.
Is it smart to think about countries as people with close friendships and personalities? You sound like you're talking about an old best friend or something. But these are countries with finite resources and rapidly changing strategic priorities. I find the naivety extemely jarring
The united states looks exactly like it always has. Just open a map if you don't believe me.
They at least used to be more subtle. I never heard Biden or Obama or even Bush advocate for the dissolution of the EU or openly supporting far right governments.
https://www.dw.com/en/eu-defense-ambitions-should-not-duplicate-nato-stoltenberg/a-59589270
US already mentioned how EU shouldn't "duplicate" NATO capabilities with domestic rapid reaction force
If only there was a way to debilitate or even cripple the Russian army without getting directly involved...
Waste of money.
Europe is about 20 years or so behind Russia and probably around 60 behind China.
Lmao no.
While Europe ponders transitioning to a war time economy in the next 5 years, Russia has completed that transition 2 years ago. Europe bets on the NATO alliance to keep its safe. As for China, well they lead the world in production of weapons system of every type.
Blablabla.
Is this sourced from one of the great shit fountains in Moscow? Or is it entirely homemade ?
germany investing in military is a bad thing for europe in the long run