Because NVidia's chip are an extremely specific chip that are only used for one type of products, are extremely high-tech, and are produced in relatively small numbers.
The chips that this is about are the complete opposite of that - they're very basic chips that are used everywhere. It's quite likely you yourself have dozens of these chips in your home right now, in the electronics of things like kitchen appliances, toys, your TV, and other gadgets. If not, you could easily go online and shop them from various component stores.
These components are so basic and common that it's simply futile to try to control them. The best thing to do is to restrict direct import of them and then try to make it as expensive as possible for the Russians to get hold of them - but at the same time, realize it's unrealistic to actually prevent them from getting hold of these basic components if they really want them.
The problem is going to be that these companies don't have any legal obligation to do what they're asking at all. As long as they're not violating sanctions and selling products legally to parties that are then going on to violate sanctions, there is absolutely zero liability on the chip maker's part.
If you sell a gun to someone who can legally purchase a gun, and they give the gun to a criminal, you can't win a lawsuit against the original seller. It might suck that the person liable doesn't have the assets to recieve recompense in a lawsuit, but that's doesn't make the original seller liable.
I also find it strange that these aren't federal lawsuits. A state court doesn't have concurrent jurisdiction over things like federal export control laws like ITAR and things like that. Seems like a waste of money when the court can just throw everything out and say that's not our problem and this is the wrong venue.
It’s like suing glock for not controlling where their guns are going to be used.
Not even that. It's like suing a company that makes small basic parts like screws, nuts, bolts, springs, etc. because some screws and springs were used in weapons that were found on Russian soldiers.
People tend to believe that all military equipment is made with super special, super advanced technology - but that's only true for some military stuff.
I'm an electrical engineer, and the reality of our modern technology is that it's so advanced and so common that if you were tasked to build the electronics for some half-modern weaponry, you could go down to a toy store and crack open some toys to scavenge components, and you'd get very, very far.
Crack open a modern car, and you'd have more than enough electronics to build some very competent stuff...
Sure, it'd be a bit scuffed, you'd have to cut corners, and it wouldn't be as reliable, etc - but in the end of the day, there's not a huge difference for a micro controller to send out a '1' to the motor to signal that the dishwasher drum should be rotated, and to send out a '1' to the motor that turns the tower of a tank...
To be blunt - the chips that they keep finding in things like Russian drones are simply so basic and so fundamental that in the end of the day you simply have to accept that if Russia want to get hold of these components, they'll be able to. They're simply to common - they're used in everything, everywhere.
Trying to export control these kind of components would be like trying to export control shoelaces or m4 screws - it's simply not feasible. The best you can do is to restrict direct access to these parts and try to make life harder for the Russians, forcing them to play shell games to increase their costs.
Not really. There was nothing about the sale of the gun being litigated, it was about how they marketed the guns illegally to children.
Everything besides their illegal marketing campaign was thrown out. There was never any liability for selling a gun to a woman with an unstable son. And in fact there couldn't be. So unless these companies are directing advertisements specifically to Russia, it's not a relevant case.
Remington has been sued for two main reasons: over how it marketed the Bushmaster rifle used in the Sandy Hook shooting, and over alleged defects in the trigger mechanisms of several rifle models that could fire without the trigger being pulled
The families’ suit, filed in 2015, accused Remington of violating a Connecticut law against deceptive trade practices by intentionally marketing its weapons to young, unstable males.
Are you really trying to argue that the lawsuit was unconnected to the Sandy Hook shooting? Complete coincidence that the plaintiffs all had that in common?
as per the article - TI own board made a range of recommendations on how the company could better control where their stuff is going and because of money they ignored it.
As an engineer I can guarantee you there are far too many ways for these chips to be directed to Russia. And ultimately it’s actually pointless because Chinese chips are going to be good enough to get the job done anyways if American ones are inaccessible.
I don't think anything has to be done. I'm not even sure the court they filed the lawsuit in has any jurisdiction over the allegations. Generally export laws fall under the sole jurisdiction of the federal government, and these lawsuits are filled in a State court. The chances are high the court throws out the lawsuit as soon as the first motions are filed.
I think they'd be better off buying lottery tickets to recover the damages they're asking for.
This lawsuit is utterly stupid and performative. It’s going absolutely nowhere legally because proving a chain of causation through five layers of grey-market distributors is impossible. If these Ukrainian "civilians" actually wanted to go after someone with dirty hands, they should have sued the European defense giants that kept pumping weapons into Russia foryearsafter the 2014 embargo. Companies in France and Germany used "grandfather clause" loopholes to sell hundreds of millions in thermal sights and avionics that are actually on Russian tanks right now. But sure, let's sue Mouser Electronics in Texas for selling generic chips.
That is the most Karen thing I have read today. Do you think these companies know where their chips are going when someone buys them? If I buy an Intel chip and create a drone with it, is it intel’s fault? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support Russia, and I hope the war ends asap but that lawsuit is just stupid.
Their chips are bought in mass by distributors who then sell to other companies and individuals. It’s genuinely exceptionally hard to clamp down on illegal exports of dual use chips.
Ok but you have to know which countries sell to Russia. Also considering the friendship between Trump and Putin, Russia could just buy chips straight from the US.
yea, thats what export controls implies. thats why the russians are not flying f35s - there are controls - its the same here - but the companies are ignoring the law and making money off of the genocide of Ukrainians
F35 are so few and sold to end users, you find an f35 in the hand of russians you can just check directly with each country you sold them to. You can't do that with millions of chips that go through multiple layers of distributors.
Sadly for Ukraine, I'm fairly sure private businesses like these can do business with whomever they may want. Usually that is "anyone willing to play the price we're asking for". I don't think the US government could prevent them from doing business with Russia (if they even wanted to prevent it, that is), could they?
This lawsuit feels overdue. When civilian deaths are linked to technology supply chains, companies like Intel, AMD, and Texas Instruments can’t hide behind “neutral tools.” Accountability matters when chips become weapons.
People keep pretending supply chains are abstract, but Ukrainians are literally dying from systems powered by Western tech. Legal pressure may finally force stricter export controls instead of vague promises and reactive PR statements.
Americans have no desire to export material to Russia. However these chips are coming in through various shell companies which pose as legitimate customers. It’s next to impossible to clamp down on this.
if Nvidia chips can be prevented from ending up in China, why are these any different?
Because NVidia's chip are an extremely specific chip that are only used for one type of products, are extremely high-tech, and are produced in relatively small numbers.
The chips that this is about are the complete opposite of that - they're very basic chips that are used everywhere. It's quite likely you yourself have dozens of these chips in your home right now, in the electronics of things like kitchen appliances, toys, your TV, and other gadgets. If not, you could easily go online and shop them from various component stores.
These components are so basic and common that it's simply futile to try to control them. The best thing to do is to restrict direct import of them and then try to make it as expensive as possible for the Russians to get hold of them - but at the same time, realize it's unrealistic to actually prevent them from getting hold of these basic components if they really want them.
The problem is going to be that these companies don't have any legal obligation to do what they're asking at all. As long as they're not violating sanctions and selling products legally to parties that are then going on to violate sanctions, there is absolutely zero liability on the chip maker's part.
If you sell a gun to someone who can legally purchase a gun, and they give the gun to a criminal, you can't win a lawsuit against the original seller. It might suck that the person liable doesn't have the assets to recieve recompense in a lawsuit, but that's doesn't make the original seller liable.
I also find it strange that these aren't federal lawsuits. A state court doesn't have concurrent jurisdiction over things like federal export control laws like ITAR and things like that. Seems like a waste of money when the court can just throw everything out and say that's not our problem and this is the wrong venue.
Good comparison. It’s like suing glock for not controlling where their guns are going to be used.
Not even that. It's like suing a company that makes small basic parts like screws, nuts, bolts, springs, etc. because some screws and springs were used in weapons that were found on Russian soldiers.
People tend to believe that all military equipment is made with super special, super advanced technology - but that's only true for some military stuff.
I'm an electrical engineer, and the reality of our modern technology is that it's so advanced and so common that if you were tasked to build the electronics for some half-modern weaponry, you could go down to a toy store and crack open some toys to scavenge components, and you'd get very, very far.
Crack open a modern car, and you'd have more than enough electronics to build some very competent stuff...
Sure, it'd be a bit scuffed, you'd have to cut corners, and it wouldn't be as reliable, etc - but in the end of the day, there's not a huge difference for a micro controller to send out a '1' to the motor to signal that the dishwasher drum should be rotated, and to send out a '1' to the motor that turns the tower of a tank...
To be blunt - the chips that they keep finding in things like Russian drones are simply so basic and so fundamental that in the end of the day you simply have to accept that if Russia want to get hold of these components, they'll be able to. They're simply to common - they're used in everything, everywhere.
Trying to export control these kind of components would be like trying to export control shoelaces or m4 screws - it's simply not feasible. The best you can do is to restrict direct access to these parts and try to make life harder for the Russians, forcing them to play shell games to increase their costs.
Remington was sued for $73 million for Sandy Hook
For marketing their weapons to children. Not at all relevant.
Unless these companies are targeting Russia with ad campaigns, but that isn't alleged in the lawsuit.
It's relevant to the comment I replied to.
Not really. There was nothing about the sale of the gun being litigated, it was about how they marketed the guns illegally to children.
Everything besides their illegal marketing campaign was thrown out. There was never any liability for selling a gun to a woman with an unstable son. And in fact there couldn't be. So unless these companies are directing advertisements specifically to Russia, it's not a relevant case.
They were sued for a different reason.
They were sued by the families of nine victims and one survivor of the Sandy Hook shooting.
Yes, but you are omitting the whys.
Are you really trying to argue that the lawsuit was unconnected to the Sandy Hook shooting? Complete coincidence that the plaintiffs all had that in common?
would be entirely reasonable if the russian army were turning up armed with Glocks
thats what sanctions are for!
not how export controls work. they do have a legal responsibility to make sure they are not selling to people who will break the export limits
There is no way to ensure this because of the shell game that is played.
as per the article - TI own board made a range of recommendations on how the company could better control where their stuff is going and because of money they ignored it.
As an engineer I can guarantee you there are far too many ways for these chips to be directed to Russia. And ultimately it’s actually pointless because Chinese chips are going to be good enough to get the job done anyways if American ones are inaccessible.
if that was true they'd already be using them
The State of Texas also has no legal jurisdiction to enforce export controls. So they won't get to make arguments about them in this lawsuit.
Putin just needs to make one phone call to make that lawsuit go away, I am afraid.
I don't think anything has to be done. I'm not even sure the court they filed the lawsuit in has any jurisdiction over the allegations. Generally export laws fall under the sole jurisdiction of the federal government, and these lawsuits are filled in a State court. The chances are high the court throws out the lawsuit as soon as the first motions are filed.
I think they'd be better off buying lottery tickets to recover the damages they're asking for.
This lawsuit is utterly stupid and performative. It’s going absolutely nowhere legally because proving a chain of causation through five layers of grey-market distributors is impossible. If these Ukrainian "civilians" actually wanted to go after someone with dirty hands, they should have sued the European defense giants that kept pumping weapons into Russia for years after the 2014 embargo. Companies in France and Germany used "grandfather clause" loopholes to sell hundreds of millions in thermal sights and avionics that are actually on Russian tanks right now. But sure, let's sue Mouser Electronics in Texas for selling generic chips.
Lol! Yeah, sure..
A team leader in those companies is more important to the US than Zelensky and all of the Rada together
That is the most Karen thing I have read today. Do you think these companies know where their chips are going when someone buys them? If I buy an Intel chip and create a drone with it, is it intel’s fault? Don’t get me wrong, I don’t support Russia, and I hope the war ends asap but that lawsuit is just stupid.
of course they know, and if they dont they can see the news every day when their stuff is found in the missiles raining down on Ukraine.
Their chips are bought in mass by distributors who then sell to other companies and individuals. It’s genuinely exceptionally hard to clamp down on illegal exports of dual use chips.
it make be hard - but as is in the article - their own boards had recommendations on how they could control a lot better than they are right now
And what should they do? You will say, don’t sell to Russia. Ok. What happens if Russia buys them from other countries?
dont sell to other countries seems like a simple enough answer.
the point of the sanctions is to prevent russia getting them. not to make profits for middlemen in third countries
Ok but you have to know which countries sell to Russia. Also considering the friendship between Trump and Putin, Russia could just buy chips straight from the US.
yea, thats what export controls implies. thats why the russians are not flying f35s - there are controls - its the same here - but the companies are ignoring the law and making money off of the genocide of Ukrainians
F35 are so few and sold to end users, you find an f35 in the hand of russians you can just check directly with each country you sold them to. You can't do that with millions of chips that go through multiple layers of distributors.
What are they supposed to do?
Selling weapons has not changed.
The US company made chips in Russian drones is not something I thought of before, interesting. Thanks for sharing.
actually enforcing sanctions has the potential to change the war massively. would be great to see this progress successfully
Sadly for Ukraine, I'm fairly sure private businesses like these can do business with whomever they may want. Usually that is "anyone willing to play the price we're asking for". I don't think the US government could prevent them from doing business with Russia (if they even wanted to prevent it, that is), could they?
Keep me posted on how things are going.
This lawsuit feels overdue. When civilian deaths are linked to technology supply chains, companies like Intel, AMD, and Texas Instruments can’t hide behind “neutral tools.” Accountability matters when chips become weapons.
People keep pretending supply chains are abstract, but Ukrainians are literally dying from systems powered by Western tech. Legal pressure may finally force stricter export controls instead of vague promises and reactive PR statements.
Americans profiting from both sides of the war? Simply unheard of.
Americans have no desire to export material to Russia. However these chips are coming in through various shell companies which pose as legitimate customers. It’s next to impossible to clamp down on this.
There is no justice in America oblast