I think it's been lost how valuable biometric information is, in general, with everything demanding it. It's nowhere near the arrogance the USA has by demanding DNA but a local supermarket chain tried a few years ago to convince people to link their fingerprint to their card number (which you, if you are that person, probably already do on your phone).
I think it failed spectacularly because I haven't heard of it since, but I just remember how awkward the whole exchange in which they basically told me "whyyyyy won't you give us your fingerprints, we personally do more for you than google" with the entitlement of a "nice guy" expecting sex.
It's scary and, frankly, DNA is just unjustifiable. Or I just don't understand. "We checked if you were telling the truth about your familial relationships" at best and "We don't like that maybe one of your ancestors had or had not a specific skin-tone and eye colour" at worst.
One of the reasons Nazi Germany was so terrifyingly effective at exterminating millions of "undesirables" is that pre-Nazi Germany collected extensive data on its population. Not necessarily for bad purposes, it was the eve of social statistics and some people thought it was cool to know every last thing about the people living in the country. But then Hitler happened and he got access to that extremely detailed compilation of who is who, which genes they have, who their family is, what they've done in their life, a thousand identifying details about them, etc.
Nazi Germany taught us that the government should have just enough data to run its services properly, and not more. Today, it isn't easy for European governments to require any piece of data, and even different services (such as healthcare) are not allowed to share private data between them.
...some people thought it was cool to know every last thing about the people living in the country.
Younger me thought it was cool & even now it is still interesting but to paraphrase the great Dr Ian Malcolm, we are so preoccupied with whether we could that we don't stop to think if we should.
I mean... Vegas has gone massively downhill anyway. Absolutely everything is nickel-and-dimed, and all the good, cheap restaurants have now closed.
Had to go for work last year and everything was comped (aside from gambling, of course). Everything was +80% more expensive than when I had gone in 2018, and that was before the forced gratuity bullshit. I still can't believe the thousands my company paid for my suite, just to attend a summit that could have been an email.
I'll never comprehend why you have to fight companies tooth and nail for them to pay you just a little bit more, but then have no problem wasting ridiculous amount of money in completely pointless things.
It's because you're the enemy. You're the burden on our company who is trying to screw us over. But when we waste money with the revolving door of AI, it's fine because we're the good ones.
In other words, it's basically how people view those on welfare. "They're the leeches who don't want to work, not us!" Or those who fight against abortions. "I'm not a slut like those other women! My abortion was moral!"
Wow, they already want a crazy amount of information, clearly to do digital surveillance on you but this takes it to a whole new level of extremes:
a. Telephone numbers used in the last five years;
b. Email addresses used in the last ten years;
c. IP addresses and metadata from electronically submitted photos;
d. Family member names (parents, spouse, siblings, children);
e. Family number telephone numbers used in the last five years;
f. Family member dates of birth;
g. Family member places of birth;
h. Family member residencies;
i. Biometrics – face, fingerprint, DNA, and iris;
j. Business telephone numbers used in the last five years;
k. Business email addresses used in the last ten years.
Thats probably intentional. By having such stringent regulations, they are able to reject whomever they wish by looking towards some specific "missing" article, and essentially reserving the right to admit whomever they want. Thats just my theory tho
That is exactly how the right wing asshats instituted the Jim Crow voting laws. The tests were all asinine gibberish, then only people they didn't want to vote got graded.
They will look the other way for almost everything, until they catch you doing any one thing they don't like, then they pull out all the possible charges, and offer you a plea deal
If you take the deal, they don't need to prove any of the "crimes" they are charging you with. Trump-up the charges as much as possible to encourage you to take the deal, saving them money, and creating more prison workers to exploit for profit (or creating more people in parole, who won't even be able to plea out next time)
Companies that provide high-quality tele-conferencing services are probably worth investing in right now.
Why would a tourist bother with any of that? Canada & Mexico are right there beside it.
That would be more than enough info to completely fake a person, take over their accounts by spoofing their phones, place prints, use AI to add a face into CCTV footage. It's a secret services dream list.
One of the reasons crossing from helmstedt into marienborn took so long where you had to surrender your passport was exactly so the stasi who often moonlit as regular border guards could cross reference a passport with data from their counterintelligence. Since transit routes were closely observed a mark could either approached to work for the regime (kompromat) or just simply use their lives as legends for their operatives abroad.
Kindly Google how long people had to wait at Helmstedt, once the biggest and most securely guarded border crossing of the world if you genuinely think they would treat you as a human being
I have been a consultant for a few years. I really can't tell you how many business email adresses I had. I often got an internal account at a project, even if it was just for a month or so.
The goal is that any reasonable person can’t do this so everyone will just lie. And guess what, if you lie on a form they can arrest you and kick you out whenever they want.
Yep and too much daring to occasionally protect workers and consumer from corporate coltrol, although we are not immune to authoritarian moves as well (see the chat control saga)
They're masters of those dichotomies, like how Biden was simultaneously a weak old man whose brain was too far gone to make any decisions and also the head of a sophisticated criminal empire that covered its tracks so well the US rightwing just can't find proof despite having all the resources of our government to do it.
On this subject, to the idiots running the US and the idiots who voted for them, freedom is a zero sum game and the more you give to other groups of people the less you get for yourself. They can't truly be free until the people they hate are not.
It's a trick the Russians are masters of as well. If you ask them we are their number one threat and will destroy their way of life but we're also weak, soft, and unwilling to fight.
We are talking about the usa, where fonts are deemed too woke if they are easier to read for people with dyslexia and where the president opposes the presence of sign language interpreters at his speeches.
Haiti - Scotland tickets start at $2358 per person. Netherlands - Japan is relatively cheap at $1550 pp, and this will be a much better match to watch. I hope these prices keep people from going.
I guess someone is trying to harvest DNA data for free.I don't think it would curb tourism too much: people wary of traveling to the USA already won't go given the arbitrary powers the administration can use against you without any kind of motive. I'm not risking jail time just because tourism in the US is cheap these days.
I wonder how European companies (including the American ones that have branches here) will handle this.
Cause like, can a company fire an employee who under this conditions refuses to travel to the US, when their role requires them to do so? I'm pretty sure at least come courts would recognize such refusal to travel as having legal basis under the right to privacy, especially if employee was hired for this position before this requirement was put in place by the US.
I wonder if that's exactly what their angle is - make working people in EU slowly turn against the protections they enjoy by making them the reason economic opportunities presented for them personally were denied.
Yeah, that is a valid question. Interesting to see for local decisions, but also if somebody takes before EU judges.
For me personally the States died as a tourist destination already during the first Trump administration, but now definitely for work trips as well. I'm a scientist and used to be regularly in the States for conferences, meetings or trainings. This is history. If these rules persist I doubt I'll travel again. But after gutting the NIH and CDC it is easier for me to avoid, as most programs have been cut anyway.
Largely they will hold meetings in other countries if at all possible. I've been closely associated with a US corporate much of my working life and in recent conversations with local Australian employees, none of them are willing to travel to the US now. Nor will they be asked to. Any irl meeting necessary will be held in Hong Kong or Singapore now.
I guess the spread of online meetings and remote work during the pandemic also helped to simply have some kind of video conference instead of a IRL meeting.
The company I work at (in Sweden, has US offices and offices around the globe) has already told me (trans guy) and my two trans women colleagues that we don't have to go to the US, ever, if we don't want to or we feel it may be unsafe to do so, so I'm grateful for that at least.
The DNA point is what's weirding me out though, why the fuck would they want someone's DNA?
Supposedly to be able to track criminal foreigners more easily. In practice, "data is the new gold", and harvesting genetic data would be a very lucrative goldmining opportunity.
You can then solve who is related to whom....A very large amount of who is related to whom. Yet again The United States noses around in peoples private lives.
The United States is a police state by definition don't go.
Policy is run by Stephen Miller. He hates just about everyone, including other republicans, so fucking Florida over isn't a concern for him. The administration does as it pleases.
These types of psychopaths would run our country into the ground until no one is left but themselves, and then they’d kill each other. It’s one giant ouroboros
I got an email the other day telling me my ESTA was expiring and how to renew it.
^ this was my exact reaction. I have nothing but fond memories of my time visiting America. But you can get felt if you think I'm visiting there again anytime soon.
I travelled to San Diego through New York last week. The amount of pictures and fingerprints scans they took of me was already quite concerning. Fortunately, ESTA option to list your social was optional for now, but I guess it will just become a required field now.
RIP business travel as well. I refuse to go to the USA anymore. I will not risk my life and give these fascists that much data just to attend a meeting.
I’ve been in California for 60 years, nobody here supports these authoritarian measures. Still, no one should travel here now, especially to the Olympics. Makes me sad because I have fond memories of the 1984 Olympics, but we need to isolated and ignored by the world until we sort out how to take power back from these neo Nazis.
same here. excluding covid I was spending 4-6 weeks in US every year for last 15 years - for work and pleasure. leaving decent money there - but no more. I miss Hawaii and southern California - but there are other places in the world
I doubt they have that many people who can afford the wild ticket prices and are interested enough in football/soccer to actually pay that money. It is their way of making this world cup a world cup exclusively for rich Americans.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they start pushing some Eugenics based agenda soon.
I mean they're basically already pushing for Apartheid with all their ICE related shenanigans, so I guess it's really only one step removed from instituting a bunch of vile Race Purity laws.
With the Russia/Ukraine conflict going on and the discussion of NATO backing Ukraine, I’ve always asked if Americans were sure which side their government would be on.
You’ll get a warm greeting! Tourism to Canada boomed this year as more people shifted their destination from the USA to Canada and Canadians decided to explore more of their own country. Canada is huge and many Canadians haven’t seen many parts of it.
I mean I hate the filthy danes and Denmark in general, but they are OURS to hate. No one else better fucking touch them.
Good ol' sibling rivalries. You absolutely hate each other and fight constantly, but if anyone from the outside attacks one of you, it becomes an alliance stronger than NATO
China was a friendlier place to visit than the USA as a European as far back as 15 years ago, mate. Source: myself and many trips throughout the years. And I don't even like China.
I agree. And this seems to be a tactical pattern by Trump. He will propose something completely absurd which is never going to happen (e.g. annexing Greenland), which kind of 'raises the bar' and makes the slightly less mental things that he actually IS going to do seem more acceptable to people.
Maybe, they probably think they’re saving Nordic citizens from their own countries.
As an American who moved to Sweden, the mere idea of leaving the U.S. for what they saw as a “socialist hellhole” was treated as a serious threat and an affront to their values.
Even now, I still have a few American contacts who can’t understand how or why I’d make that move, even though to me the reasons are pretty obvious.
"Socialist hell" is probably a slogan that has been useful for years in destroying workers' rights, trade unions, etc. Used by Republicans to replace McCarthyism. After all, it's better to work without health care, vacation time, or a pension than to demand it loudly. Someone might think you're a socialist!
But they also risk getting social democracy with that import, so even the Arian-Afficionados will be upset once they force us to declare our voting habits.
Thank god Mexico and Canada will host some world cup games. Not going back to that shit hole until Trump is gone and America actually reckons with their fascist flirting.
I never want to hear from any "WHO New World Government" rightoid nutjobs ever again. They are literally making a database of everyone's DNA, social media, emails, everything.
I'm a GenXer from the US. I'm so goddamned sick and tired of this administrations bullshit. A lot of it is frankly illegal but none of the others that could truly rein them in have the moral courage to do so.
Please please please avoid coming here. Absolutely TANK the tourism industry. Make the World Cup and Olympic an abject failure. Send a solid message by punching these fools right in the wallet, far too many of them support this fascist regime and right now people like me are absolutely powerless to (legally) do anything about it outside of small incidents of resistance that don't really change anything on the larger scale. (And don't start with the 2A stuff, things need to become a LOT worse before we hit that point, jump there too early and it invites a full fascist crackdown with martial law and all that)
We are shooting ourselves in the foot. The tourism industry is going to take a massive hit. We were already standing to lose billions in revenue and hundreds of thousands of jobs before this policy was announced.
Even with years of Democratic administrations in the future, the damage will have already been done. Good will isn't going to happen due to this.
The proposed rule (which is not finalized--the link itself is asking for public comment) is to "add several 'high value data fields' to the ESTA application, when feasible." What the hell "when feasible" is supposed to mean is anybody's guess.
The first bunch of the proposed changes are quite reasonable and amount to requiring selfies/photos at entry/exit. The crazy shit is at the end: 5 years of social media history (again, what does that even mean?) and most especially this "high value data" garbage.
The Trump 2.0 administration is such a disaster. International embarrassment is the least of it. His approval rating is -13, at least, and Republicans got hammered in recent elections. The tragedy is enough dipshits voted for him at the right time.
I don't think even my own country has my DNA... And I'm supposed to give it to the US?
That's not going to happen.
I think it's been lost how valuable biometric information is, in general, with everything demanding it. It's nowhere near the arrogance the USA has by demanding DNA but a local supermarket chain tried a few years ago to convince people to link their fingerprint to their card number (which you, if you are that person, probably already do on your phone).
I think it failed spectacularly because I haven't heard of it since, but I just remember how awkward the whole exchange in which they basically told me "whyyyyy won't you give us your fingerprints, we personally do more for you than google" with the entitlement of a "nice guy" expecting sex.
It's scary and, frankly, DNA is just unjustifiable. Or I just don't understand. "We checked if you were telling the truth about your familial relationships" at best and "We don't like that maybe one of your ancestors had or had not a specific skin-tone and eye colour" at worst.
One of the reasons Nazi Germany was so terrifyingly effective at exterminating millions of "undesirables" is that pre-Nazi Germany collected extensive data on its population. Not necessarily for bad purposes, it was the eve of social statistics and some people thought it was cool to know every last thing about the people living in the country. But then Hitler happened and he got access to that extremely detailed compilation of who is who, which genes they have, who their family is, what they've done in their life, a thousand identifying details about them, etc.
Nazi Germany taught us that the government should have just enough data to run its services properly, and not more. Today, it isn't easy for European governments to require any piece of data, and even different services (such as healthcare) are not allowed to share private data between them.
Younger me thought it was cool & even now it is still interesting but to paraphrase the great Dr Ian Malcolm, we are so preoccupied with whether we could that we don't stop to think if we should.
How about hell no and fuck right off?
World cup gonna be fun....not
Hey, at least there's two other countries hosting games
Yeah... i love Las Vegas but i guess i have been there enough. Im not doing this. I can spend my money in other countries.
Vegas is dying anyways.
Trump wasn't content with bankrupting several casinos - he wanted to bankrupt ALL the casinos.
I mean... Vegas has gone massively downhill anyway. Absolutely everything is nickel-and-dimed, and all the good, cheap restaurants have now closed.
Had to go for work last year and everything was comped (aside from gambling, of course). Everything was +80% more expensive than when I had gone in 2018, and that was before the forced gratuity bullshit. I still can't believe the thousands my company paid for my suite, just to attend a summit that could have been an email.
I'll never comprehend why you have to fight companies tooth and nail for them to pay you just a little bit more, but then have no problem wasting ridiculous amount of money in completely pointless things.
Oh! I work for one of those companies!
It's because you're the enemy. You're the burden on our company who is trying to screw us over. But when we waste money with the revolving door of AI, it's fine because we're the good ones.
In other words, it's basically how people view those on welfare. "They're the leeches who don't want to work, not us!" Or those who fight against abortions. "I'm not a slut like those other women! My abortion was moral!"
Wow, they already want a crazy amount of information, clearly to do digital surveillance on you but this takes it to a whole new level of extremes:
a. Telephone numbers used in the last five years;
b. Email addresses used in the last ten years;
c. IP addresses and metadata from electronically submitted photos;
d. Family member names (parents, spouse, siblings, children);
e. Family number telephone numbers used in the last five years;
f. Family member dates of birth;
g. Family member places of birth;
h. Family member residencies;
i. Biometrics – face, fingerprint, DNA, and iris;
j. Business telephone numbers used in the last five years;
k. Business email addresses used in the last ten years.
lol i couldnt even dig up all my phone numbers from the last 5 yrs even if i want to, not to mention business stuff...
Thats probably intentional. By having such stringent regulations, they are able to reject whomever they wish by looking towards some specific "missing" article, and essentially reserving the right to admit whomever they want. Thats just my theory tho
That is exactly how the right wing asshats instituted the Jim Crow voting laws. The tests were all asinine gibberish, then only people they didn't want to vote got graded.
The majority of laws in the South work like that
They will look the other way for almost everything, until they catch you doing any one thing they don't like, then they pull out all the possible charges, and offer you a plea deal
If you take the deal, they don't need to prove any of the "crimes" they are charging you with. Trump-up the charges as much as possible to encourage you to take the deal, saving them money, and creating more prison workers to exploit for profit (or creating more people in parole, who won't even be able to plea out next time)
That’s how it works in the whole country my friend. The south doesn’t have a monopoly on an unfair justice system
Conservatives don't mind draconian laws because they know they will not be enforced equally.
The thing they hate most about liberals is that liberals then try to enforce those laws equally.
And if you fail to fill in the data correctly it will be grounds to revoke your visa. So good luck with ICE because you forgot an old Hotmail address.
but also to then retroactively go after someone for something they "forgot".
the purpose is to sever ties between US and EU.
Was thinking the same. I've had numerous sims to cover short trips. Would have no record of their associated numbers.
And the US wouldn't have that info either....just never say anything about the short term Sims and nothing happens.
Yeah everyone in here is acting like you have to give this up. No, they just want it. Just lie, like adults.
I recently failed one of those online identity verification things because it asked so many questions about my old addresses.
I moved a lot as a student. I have no idea what the street number was in a shitty apartment I lived in for 6 months 17 years ago.
Buddy, I’ve failed the “Are you a robot” test several times before, lol.
Companies that provide high-quality tele-conferencing services are probably worth investing in right now.
Why would a tourist bother with any of that? Canada & Mexico are right there beside it.
That would be more than enough info to completely fake a person, take over their accounts by spoofing their phones, place prints, use AI to add a face into CCTV footage. It's a secret services dream list.
One of the reasons crossing from helmstedt into marienborn took so long where you had to surrender your passport was exactly so the stasi who often moonlit as regular border guards could cross reference a passport with data from their counterintelligence. Since transit routes were closely observed a mark could either approached to work for the regime (kompromat) or just simply use their lives as legends for their operatives abroad.
Papers Please
If the EU would require the same from Americans, the US would go batshit crazy about it.
They'd say the requirements are a tax on america and impose tariffs.
*reciprocal tarriffs
Do it, and make similar demands for all visiting private planes and yachts - no more trips to Capri, Paris or Cannes unless full ownership disclosure
I like this idea.
Lmao, only surveillance thief’s would want all that. Why on earth anyone one would go there now is beyond me.
They did not ask for our childhood-pet's name tho so I think we're safe
The techbros in defense contracting want to populate their panopticon.
And social media handles from the last 10 years, as well.
Fuck Trump and his MAGA enablers.
It’s to feed their precious Palantir surveillance machine. They ran out of ways to spy on Americans so now they want to spy on Europeans.
This was my exact thought. They already mined all the data of Americans, now they’re looking for more pastures to graze in.
Not just Europeans. It's also being applied to Australians. Wouldn't surprise me if its a blanket thing.
In case they look up my social media handle, let me be clear: USA sucks.
I mean... I wouldn't bother to go but if I did... I hope you've got one fucking HUGE piece of paper just for my email addresses alone...
Kindly Google how long people had to wait at Helmstedt, once the biggest and most securely guarded border crossing of the world if you genuinely think they would treat you as a human being
I have been a consultant for a few years. I really can't tell you how many business email adresses I had. I often got an internal account at a project, even if it was just for a month or so.
Tell it to the judge, buster!
what if you don't know your parents place of birth and they are dead
Then you are sent to Guantanamo Bay
That's ridiculous.
You'd be sent to El Salvador.
Free travel and accommodation /s
The goal is that any reasonable person can’t do this so everyone will just lie. And guess what, if you lie on a form they can arrest you and kick you out whenever they want.
Under normal circumstances this would be just unbelievable.
And by this I mean that under the current abysmal state of affairs in this circus over there, it is ENTIRELY believable.
yeah okay im never travelling to the US
Insane
I barely remember my current phone number, not even the business phone number I had 5 years ago…
I do not consent to any of my family handing over my information to the fascist US.
What if you dont have social media?
Wow, they really hate their tourism economy huh?
DNA??? they can fuck right off......just why they are intent on completely isolating themselves is beyond me and makes no sense
An isolated population is easier to manipulate and control.
And concerning how easy it is already, can’t wait to see what happens next.
No they only hate Europeans now in general. /s
Too much democracy
Yep and too much daring to occasionally protect workers and consumer from corporate coltrol, although we are not immune to authoritarian moves as well (see the chat control saga)
Not giving enough money to their large businesses.
Freedom is when a clique of billionaires tell you what to do and what opinions you are allowed to have
Freedom®*
*terms and conditions apply. Not all citizens equal. Credit check required. Favo
ured status can go up or down.They hate us for of our freedoms.
Can…. I join?? 🥹. I don’t like this.
r/AmerExit/
They're triggered by our "wokeness"
Used to be "They hate our freedom"
Now it's "We hate their wokedom"
Somehow we are too inclusive of others and yet have less freedom. *shrug* I guess our civilization will just collapse.
They're masters of those dichotomies, like how Biden was simultaneously a weak old man whose brain was too far gone to make any decisions and also the head of a sophisticated criminal empire that covered its tracks so well the US rightwing just can't find proof despite having all the resources of our government to do it.
On this subject, to the idiots running the US and the idiots who voted for them, freedom is a zero sum game and the more you give to other groups of people the less you get for yourself. They can't truly be free until the people they hate are not.
It's a trick the Russians are masters of as well. If you ask them we are their number one threat and will destroy their way of life but we're also weak, soft, and unwilling to fight.
Classic fascism. Like the Nazis kept saying the Jews were both weak and also a major threat, often in the same breath.
We are talking about the usa, where fonts are deemed too woke if they are easier to read for people with dyslexia and where the president opposes the presence of sign language interpreters at his speeches.
Makes sense, Europe wakes up 6-10 hours earlier every single day.
It's called time zones! /s
And Canadians. And South Americans. Also Asians. And probably also each other.... The US is cooked.
Who do they not hate? They hate pretty much all non white people, they hate Europeans, they hate Canadians. Who are left? Russians and Australians?
Australians are also required to give DNA as part of the process, same as EU.
Too much good news, Beijing and Moscow are running out of champagne!
The goal of all authoritarian regimes is to isolate their population. The isolation is both internal and external.
But people will still come for the World Cup and the Olympics. They are going to get their database which they will monetize some how.
Haiti - Scotland tickets start at $2358 per person. Netherlands - Japan is relatively cheap at $1550 pp, and this will be a much better match to watch. I hope these prices keep people from going.
I for one was so looking forward to this being my first World Cup but out of principle, I can’t personally support this but some will.
It's already monetized. All of this is being done by and for Palantir.
I guess someone is trying to harvest DNA data for free.I don't think it would curb tourism too much: people wary of traveling to the USA already won't go given the arbitrary powers the administration can use against you without any kind of motive. I'm not risking jail time just because tourism in the US is cheap these days.
I wonder how European companies (including the American ones that have branches here) will handle this.
Cause like, can a company fire an employee who under this conditions refuses to travel to the US, when their role requires them to do so? I'm pretty sure at least come courts would recognize such refusal to travel as having legal basis under the right to privacy, especially if employee was hired for this position before this requirement was put in place by the US.
I wonder if that's exactly what their angle is - make working people in EU slowly turn against the protections they enjoy by making them the reason economic opportunities presented for them personally were denied.
At least in Germany you cannot. Giving up DNA is considered an invasive procedure of your body which you do not need to agree on.
Americans do it for free already with those ancestry websites that law enforcement can use.
That's not for free
That is paying them to collect your DNA and analyze it for future research discoveries.
Yeah, that is a valid question. Interesting to see for local decisions, but also if somebody takes before EU judges. For me personally the States died as a tourist destination already during the first Trump administration, but now definitely for work trips as well. I'm a scientist and used to be regularly in the States for conferences, meetings or trainings. This is history. If these rules persist I doubt I'll travel again. But after gutting the NIH and CDC it is easier for me to avoid, as most programs have been cut anyway.
Largely they will hold meetings in other countries if at all possible. I've been closely associated with a US corporate much of my working life and in recent conversations with local Australian employees, none of them are willing to travel to the US now. Nor will they be asked to. Any irl meeting necessary will be held in Hong Kong or Singapore now.
I guess the spread of online meetings and remote work during the pandemic also helped to simply have some kind of video conference instead of a IRL meeting.
The company I work at (in Sweden, has US offices and offices around the globe) has already told me (trans guy) and my two trans women colleagues that we don't have to go to the US, ever, if we don't want to or we feel it may be unsafe to do so, so I'm grateful for that at least.
The DNA point is what's weirding me out though, why the fuck would they want someone's DNA?
Supposedly to be able to track criminal foreigners more easily. In practice, "data is the new gold", and harvesting genetic data would be a very lucrative goldmining opportunity.
You can then solve who is related to whom....A very large amount of who is related to whom. Yet again The United States noses around in peoples private lives.
The United States is a police state by definition don't go.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state
Just in time for us to host the World Cup too.
Every country in the world should boycott the world cup and the Olympics. I hope no one shows.
Florida alone will put an end to this
Policy is run by Stephen Miller. He hates just about everyone, including other republicans, so fucking Florida over isn't a concern for him. The administration does as it pleases.
These types of psychopaths would run our country into the ground until no one is left but themselves, and then they’d kill each other. It’s one giant ouroboros
They want to please their Russian and Israeli overlords.
How about no.
I got an email the other day telling me my ESTA was expiring and how to renew it.
^ this was my exact reaction. I have nothing but fond memories of my time visiting America. But you can get felt if you think I'm visiting there again anytime soon.
I travelled to San Diego through New York last week. The amount of pictures and fingerprints scans they took of me was already quite concerning. Fortunately, ESTA option to list your social was optional for now, but I guess it will just become a required field now.
RIP tourism...
RIP business travel as well. I refuse to go to the USA anymore. I will not risk my life and give these fascists that much data just to attend a meeting.
I’ve been in California for 60 years, nobody here supports these authoritarian measures. Still, no one should travel here now, especially to the Olympics. Makes me sad because I have fond memories of the 1984 Olympics, but we need to isolated and ignored by the world until we sort out how to take power back from these neo Nazis.
Looks like now there will be "literally 1984" Olympics.
same here. excluding covid I was spending 4-6 weeks in US every year for last 15 years - for work and pleasure. leaving decent money there - but no more. I miss Hawaii and southern California - but there are other places in the world
How will the World Cup and the Olympics work?!
Boycott.
I boycotted the WC in Qatar and will boycott the WC in the US. I have standards.
They will still get their stadiums full. FIFA gets the ticket money so nothing else matters to those scumbags
I doubt they have that many people who can afford the wild ticket prices and are interested enough in football/soccer to actually pay that money. It is their way of making this world cup a world cup exclusively for rich Americans.
Can I simply upload the Ariernachweis of my grandpa? /s?
It really is heading that way, isn't it?
I wouldn't be at all surprised if they start pushing some Eugenics based agenda soon.
I mean they're basically already pushing for Apartheid with all their ICE related shenanigans, so I guess it's really only one step removed from instituting a bunch of vile Race Purity laws.
...I wonder what they'll rename "Endlösnung" to? Gotta be catchy!
Big beautiful solution
I really hope that fat orange fuck and all of those who are tied to project 25 will soon be detained and sent to prison.
None of them are decent humans. All of them are criminals.
You should remove the "/s" from your comment. Unless you're being sarcastic.
/ss?
Treating friends and allies like criminals, that'll help the economy. Will Russian citizens in the US get a pass? justcurious
The EU and US are no longer allies. People just haven’t caught on yet.
Exactly.
With the Russia/Ukraine conflict going on and the discussion of NATO backing Ukraine, I’ve always asked if Americans were sure which side their government would be on.
Only if they are government agents and oligarchs, those will be welcome of course, political refugees certaily will not.
The party of small government and free markets, everybody…
🙄
they were lying, and everyone knew they were lying, and corporate newpapers printed the lies because they were paid to do so.
I prefer to go to Canada
You’ll get a warm greeting! Tourism to Canada boomed this year as more people shifted their destination from the USA to Canada and Canadians decided to explore more of their own country. Canada is huge and many Canadians haven’t seen many parts of it.
I literally did this 👍
I booked a trip to Montréal in September for the Cycling Worlds. Can't wait to be there.
The US ? Not a chance in the foreseeable future.
Word. Me and my wife were discussing a trip to the US, just the two of us.
Now? No way. We live in Sweden, and decided the US was a no-go when Trump started hinting about invading Greenland.
I mean I hate the filthy danes and Denmark in general, but they are OURS to hate. No one else better fucking touch them.
Good ol' sibling rivalries. You absolutely hate each other and fight constantly, but if anyone from the outside attacks one of you, it becomes an alliance stronger than NATO
Come on over!
Me too, I prefer countries where I won't get detained when I'm there on vacation.
Always wanted to visit Canada, now is the time!
Let’s friggin go bud. To be honest, most Canadians prefer Europe over USA anyways.
Wtf, like no?! How did USA manage to make china seem like a more pleasant tourism spot rather than the US in the span of a year, god damn.
China was a friendlier place to visit than the USA as a European as far back as 15 years ago, mate. Source: myself and many trips throughout the years. And I don't even like China.
This looks like a scheme for data farming rather than pre-travel vetting.
"Come and see the magnificient streets of Manhattan for FREE! Create an ESTA account now!"
Apparently in some cases they will now ask to donate a kidney.
They said ALL biometric data - here is a cup and a Playboy, off you go, lad!
Don’t care. I do not travel to such countries. RIP land of the free.
We’re being “freed” from our freedom. 😭
Land of the Fleeced
I think they have a name for such countrys, what was it?
Ah yes, i remember. Shithole countrys. And the US is ironically the textbook example for it.
If they had to say it, they were never free to begin with.
Nowf Koreasization of Murrica.
Next step: all visitors must be accompanied by a MAGA goon so that he checks you don't spread those filthy liberty ideas to Americans.
Next step, same requirements for US people moving within the country.
End stages
I will NEVER set foot in americastan.
Magastan as I've heard it called before.
Fascistan works for me.
Yeah NOBODY wants to go that much. No way I’d just give DNA to the least trustworthy people on the planet.
Hot, fresh stool sample transmitted at velocity.
Fuck off USA
Palantir and Peter Thiel having the biggest boner ever
This is just a proposal which will be shut down. It's very challenging and financially burdening to collect, store and analyze DNA. Not happening.
I agree. And this seems to be a tactical pattern by Trump. He will propose something completely absurd which is never going to happen (e.g. annexing Greenland), which kind of 'raises the bar' and makes the slightly less mental things that he actually IS going to do seem more acceptable to people.
It‘s called flooding the zone. Just spread as much BS news while pushing your real agenda on the background while no one notices…
For domestic stuff, a lot of it has actually happened though.
Not if it is #sponsored by palantir technology
Like they care about doing it properly.
Like they care about fiscal responsibility, just look at ICE
no , it's a part of the "trial balloon" strategy, they are testing the water to see how far they can push the policy.
Probably to check if they are Nordic enough to be allowed in
I don't think most Nordics will be allowed in if they find out what we think about Trump.
Yeah, I really don't think they'd like us if they saw our social media :P
Maybe, they probably think they’re saving Nordic citizens from their own countries.
As an American who moved to Sweden, the mere idea of leaving the U.S. for what they saw as a “socialist hellhole” was treated as a serious threat and an affront to their values.
Even now, I still have a few American contacts who can’t understand how or why I’d make that move, even though to me the reasons are pretty obvious.
"Socialist hell" is probably a slogan that has been useful for years in destroying workers' rights, trade unions, etc. Used by Republicans to replace McCarthyism. After all, it's better to work without health care, vacation time, or a pension than to demand it loudly. Someone might think you're a socialist!
But they also risk getting social democracy with that import, so even the Arian-Afficionados will be upset once they force us to declare our voting habits.
Now that is how you build a wall around your country.
Every European mobile phone should have a picture of Trump kissing Epstein as it's lock screen.
Every European has seen more than enough of that orange asshole and would like to be left alone.
I think I’ll stay in Sweden, thank you very much.
Hell, I'm a Danskjävel, and even I'd rather travel to Sweden! /s
Dont have any interest in a visit.
WhY isN’T aNYoNe COmINg AnyMORe??¿¿
If Trump wants my dna so badly, i´ll gladly spit in his face.
Thank god Mexico and Canada will host some world cup games. Not going back to that shit hole until Trump is gone and America actually reckons with their fascist flirting.
I'd say that we should shit on their airports, but that would be giving our DNA as well.
I never want to hear from any "WHO New World Government" rightoid nutjobs ever again. They are literally making a database of everyone's DNA, social media, emails, everything.
Fucking Palantir man.
10 years ago I would have laughed if you told me USA would be in my no go list along with the Myanmars, Yemens and Sudans.
Must be that famous freedom we europeans know nothing about
America is on my no flight list alongside China. It is a shame but I do not visit countries ruled by shithole regimes
Even in China you can walk in without handing over your social media accounts. Never mind DNA.
Trump making Xi look liberal is an schievement inti itself hehe.
Most EU citizens can now visit China without a visa and without ESTA-like approval schemes.
So much for the World Cup, I’m hoping that Canada sells out and the US stadiums are empty.
I'm a GenXer from the US. I'm so goddamned sick and tired of this administrations bullshit. A lot of it is frankly illegal but none of the others that could truly rein them in have the moral courage to do so.
Please please please avoid coming here. Absolutely TANK the tourism industry. Make the World Cup and Olympic an abject failure. Send a solid message by punching these fools right in the wallet, far too many of them support this fascist regime and right now people like me are absolutely powerless to (legally) do anything about it outside of small incidents of resistance that don't really change anything on the larger scale. (And don't start with the 2A stuff, things need to become a LOT worse before we hit that point, jump there too early and it invites a full fascist crackdown with martial law and all that)
I truly hate it here right now.
We're being intentionally isolated to make us easier to abuse here in the U.S., aren't we?
They're burning through our soft power like they themselves are hostiles, frankly.
We are shooting ourselves in the foot. The tourism industry is going to take a massive hit. We were already standing to lose billions in revenue and hundreds of thousands of jobs before this policy was announced.
Even with years of Democratic administrations in the future, the damage will have already been done. Good will isn't going to happen due to this.
https://fortune.com/2025/05/23/us-could-lose-23-billion-gdp-230000-jobs-foreign-tourists-trump-tariffs/
The proposed rule (which is not finalized--the link itself is asking for public comment) is to "add several 'high value data fields' to the ESTA application, when feasible." What the hell "when feasible" is supposed to mean is anybody's guess.
The first bunch of the proposed changes are quite reasonable and amount to requiring selfies/photos at entry/exit. The crazy shit is at the end: 5 years of social media history (again, what does that even mean?) and most especially this "high value data" garbage.
The Trump 2.0 administration is such a disaster. International embarrassment is the least of it. His approval rating is -13, at least, and Republicans got hammered in recent elections. The tragedy is enough dipshits voted for him at the right time.