Like always, the history will repeat itself in 10-50 years... Then another OddlySuitable2 will ask the same question on reddit 2 and another mariusherea2 will give the same answer 😂
Throughout modern history, when international trade halts or is slowed down there is a negative economic and social impact - it's why the post war institutions were so focused on promoting liberalised trade.
Anyone who knew anything about history, even to a relatively small degree, could have seen the Brexit disaster coming. Anyone saying "well it wasn't managed properly and that's why it failed" is just proving their ignorance publicly.
I have a list of reasons why I vote to stay and history is one of them. Plus you know not being a total racist twat 🙄, just wish people took it more seriously at the time. I've watched for the past 10 years as the country turned slowly in too an over priced shot hole and one of the main assholes who promoted it is now ahead in the early poles. Im done with this place if reform get in I have an out I will be using it if that happens.
I absolutely agree but i will argue that it was badly managed (although not for the reason other people might say).
What i think is still absolutely mindboggling is why the government decided to go forward after the result was this close (49/51%!) How can you divide your own country that much? Instead of saying 'look, the results are so close and this topic is so important and controversial that untill we reach a margin of at least 25% we hold the decision off' But no, they went 'the people have spoken yada yada' and that was that. So the mismanagement lies in the way they handled the result.
In the words of the great Lebowski: That's just stupid man...
What also happened was the UK triggering Brexit officially with the EU without any plan whatsoever. I remember some EU negotiators saying that the UK was completely unprepared in the meetings and thought this would go swimmingly on its own. It was foolish from start to finish and the finish is yet to be reached.
Because they got what they wanted it was never for the people they wanted the country to crash so they could do a buy out, farage USA mates made a killing buying up tons of business and land for a cut rate, yes with a vote this close they should of done a revote but what is done is done, and its all starting to catch up on us and all we can really do is work though this and hopefully vote more carefully in the future, mps are not are friends they don't care for us or the country they are playing a game to make money quickly anyone with this much power will eventually sell out its just humanity base instincts. We need to hold them to account for there actions so it doesn't had again and place new laws in to stop it happening in the future. Just look at reform at the moment and where they get there funding from its scary.
Indeed. The whole point of EU was evolved from the political philosophy of European integration.
It was a long existing concept, and started to take place right after the second world war. That’s because one of the biggest lessons European countries learned from the two world wars was that a scattered Europe is much worse than an integrated Europe.
The lesson was not a lesson learned on paper. The lesson was learned on the basis of blood of millions and costs to generations.
You sure? The UK was the Murican man on the inside, you guys could benefit from the UK being a member again, but its privileges cannot return as they were in an unique position to abuse them and did so fairly often (most EU members agree on that).
If you guys were serious you would be on talks with Turkey to secure their alliance against Russia outside the context of NATO an organism that only exist as long as the US wants it to exist, also why are you buying overpriced US gas instead of buying and installing enough solar/wind/nuclear to wean off the need to import fossil fuels for energy generation?
Get the east of europe (north, center) to militarize and modernize their combat capabilities, get the west and south to produce energy by using renewables and revitalize their industries, get france and Germany to do both... Turkey secures the south east.
Should be easy and wouldn't need to boost military expending by buying overpriced American systems.
I would take Brits back on pre-Brexit conditions, no questions asked.
Why? So you can then do Brexit 2.0 in several years when another donkey politician tells you "We send all this money to Brussels! It's time to take back control!!!"
Actions have consequences. If the UK wants to rejoin, it needs to do so without the special EU treatment it had.
The proper British way to resolve this whole mess, is to pretend that nothing disagreeable happened, ignore the whole embarrassment, and carry on like everything was exactly like before the drinking began..
AFAIKS the world went to shit in 2008, when we were forced to pay the gambling debts of a wunch of bankers, when we discovered they had been gambling with our money. Since then, every time we seem like getting back on our feet some shock knocks us back on our knees. Up to that point the world was gradually improving.
I’m always amazed that people treat Gordon Brown like a voice of he people.
He raided our tax money to fund the corporate and hedge fund takeover of the country, joining other right wing governments in creating a vast slush fund out of our taxes. And now they own everything, and are tightening the screws.
And we’re still waiting for them to do anything about climate change, as we were promised. No market-led solutions unless we boycott unsustainability - which everyone knows we won’t do.
The only logically defensible argument for Brexit was sovereignty. For me, that was still a con of Brexit, because I didn't want to give even more control to our absolute fuckwit politicians.
I agree but even that was misleading, because whilst we got more ‘control’ we lost the power of being in the union, so that extra control was less useful, hence why we ended up not being able to capitalise on it.
The problem with brexit is that it was all explained unilaterally, i.e ‘we can make trade deals that suit us, not the EU’, as if the people we were making a deal with had no say in the matter.
God the fucking fishing industry. It's absolutely ludicrous that so much airtime was and still is given to an industry that contributes less to our economy than fucking OnlyFans does.
A Farage now unrestrained by those pesky EU regulations, ready to sell absolutely everything to the US and its slave-driver corporations.
Without anyone telling him he can't. Aren't you glad you got rid of all that fastidious Brussels red tape?
All those workers protections, all those environmental protections, that the wasteful universal health... They were getting in the way of American trillionaires becoming richer. You wouldn't want that for the UK.
Stop falling for the propaganda billionaires are spreading about how his election is inevitable.
You just make it worse, and you’re doing their work for free.
There are years to go till the next election, and the noise around this has plenty of time to die out if excitable kids don’t join in so they feel like they’re part of spreading what they’ve heard about.
Stop spreading their gossip, if you actually care. Grow up and take it seriously for a change, or it gets worse.
You’re the one that isn’t taking it seriously. Every single poll on the matter shows reform UK are well ahead. Burying your head in the sand isn’t going to make things better you know?
We are seeing in live time how reform can’t govern with the councils they have taken control of, it’s a long time till a general election.
Also take into account the people most likely to vote in a poll are people who are against the current government.
He has some serious support but we’ve seen time and time again in the UK that their arguments fall apart with facts and figures while they have zero responses to actual problems.
Last year at this time, very single poll said that the Conservatives were going to sweep Canada.
Now not only did the Liberals win, the Conservatives are defecting to the Liberal party in numbers such that the Liberals are now just one seat away from having a parliamentary majority
They’re trying to win back the idea that they’re serious, so they can lie to us again.
Look at their ideas about climate changes, they need us to trust that we can keep on without change, and just blame other people while saying we’ve done enough.
I take your point, but I think this article is important. It is well written, and from a respected source. Your mind may have been made up long ago (as was mine) but there are still people out there who need convincing, and their being convinced would be to the benefit of society.
The people who voted Brexit don’t care if it makes us poorer, as long as everyone else suffers they don’t care.
It’s the same with Reform, it’s just crabs in a bucket mentality. It’s politics of envy. They want to bring others down, and won’t ever admit that they were wrong.
Immigration up, NHS is worse shape, economy in worst shape, infrastructure and road are much worse than 10 years ago, prices much higher on everything. But at least we have less influence in the world and Europe now. We can't stop winning!
At least you have Brexit to blame and don't say it's a mere issue of immigration, even though these developments are happening in most Western countries.
Sure, Brexit is never to blame. Even tho pretty much everyone, including the government (and opposition) admitted that Brexit was a mistake and was bad for the economy and businesses (and relations and influence), brexiters will never admit it. Too much stupidity and ego.
People are voting for Reform based on immigration not because of their stance with the EU, but they don't care about that because immigration is their top issue as they believe the hospital are overrun by immigrants, jobs have been suppressed by immigrants, and most crime is committed by immigrants, it's ridiculous.
There's a funny video of reform voters where they are asked about what they think about reforms policies not on immigration. They suddenly couldn't string a sentence together. Not that they were articulate to begin with.
The primary reason people voted out was because of it, logic be damned. The next far down the list was the ideas around sovereignty which they pretended to care about.
I know, in not convinced they'll get in with the political system like people say they are guaranteed. But at the same time I'm not convinced about the idea a new EU vote would be different now.
If the UK could rejoin with it's original conditions, I think there would be a good chance of rejoining. Pro-EU brits would be all for it, and there are more Brexit-skeptics than EU skeptics.
However, I doubt the UK would get the same treatment (e.g. keeping the £) as was originally in place, which makes it a near impossible sell.
The fact that a country can be bailed out (partially but not even partially with MES) is already a great tool. Whi would save britain?
Euro is expanding to albania, bulgaria and in future ukraine.
The more money around the less printing new money affects inflation(USA teaches us)
France isn't getting bailed out..It's not Greece, this is a $3trillion economy, even if direct fiscal transfers were available (they aren't as there is no common fiscal union), no-one has the financial firepower to cover them. It will just be a full sovereign debt crisis, followed by a balance of payments crisis straight into Eurocrisis 2.0, just this time there is nothing to prop up the black hole.
Whi would save britain?
The Bank of England? The UK has a full fiscal and monetary union, there is no issue with a balance of payments crisis, the central bank can simply print money and inject it directly into the economy to prop things up.
Euro is expanding to albania, bulgaria and in future ukraine. The more money around the less printing new money affects inflation(USA teaches us)
What? That's non-sensical, monetary debasement is only manageable so long as their is still constant demand for bonds to hoover up newly issued money, the US gets away with that because the dollar being global reserve currency means countries are forced to buy US bonds to be able to trade in dollars.
The Euro doesn't have anywhere near that level of demand, in fact its become even more of a struggle and quite fucking dangeorus recently as fiscally prudent countries like Germany, the Netherlands etc are usually restrained in bond issuance, something that France took advantage off post 2008 to issue even more bonds to creditors looking for exposure to euro denominated debt, which now we can see the disasterous effect of them being so exposed to international holders of their debt at a time when their bond yields are spiking as their state finances are spiralling which is where fears of a sovereign debt crisis come from.
There’s around a 8M majority for returning to the UK at this point
see that 8M majority collapse, once the Brits realise that EU membership would entail € membership, joining Schengen and probably a much more integrated defense and foreign policy
By the 2029 UK general election, there will be people aged fucking 30 who were too young to vote in the 2016 EU referendum.
That’s millions of adults living under miserable economic conditions who will be eager to vote for a rejoin party by then. Of course they could also vote for Farage’s even more far right anti-EU party, but the data shows how much his Brexit has cost us
"We will probably never make up the ground we’ve lost but the numbers do suggest that restoring borderless trade with the EU would bring big economic benefits. And since those who think Brexit has been a failure outnumber those who think it has been a success by 61 per cent to 13, I doubt the political cost would be significant."
There it is, a clarion call for the grownups in charge to change their minds now the facts have changed...
All efforts by the NatC (National Conservative global movement) to promote a party or position in National and EU elections/referendums must be resisted. If Musk says Afd, irrespective of your dislike for policies of the alternatives vote for them, vote for any of them, any alternative. Vote, do not stay at home. Their efforts will be relentless, and their media/propaganda will be strong. DO NOT LET THEM GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR.
Brexit was a win for Putin (to divide Europe further) and America (Republicans), so that America can manipulate and have more ecnomic control over the UK/EU. If you think about it, Russia and America (under Trump) want the exact same thing: a disrupted, divided Europe, for both of them to carve up.
ruZZian assets pushed for it. You voted it. They went away. You still didn't start negotiating to rejoin (ego of losing the special status in the EU) . Now same asset(s) want back in power, and it looks like you're voting them again, instead of investigating them for treason.
Economically as stated, the UK has outpaced the major EU economies in terms of growth since Brexit.
It's not unreasonable to suggest that such growth would have been stifled has we remained in the EU.
I should state that I am pro-EU in the sense of cooperation is better than isolation. But the UK will never rejoin without some major concessions both ways. I doubt we'll see the UK back in the EU in my lifetime.
Yeah I said in another reply - giving up the pound would be required, so I'm not a fan.
I don't agree it's reasonable to think that growth would have been stifled, the drop in FDI, the time and effort to unhook ourselves - would have put us on an even keel at the least. In my opinion (and despite trying to be objective I see very little analysis to counter that).
But, economics was only part of my point. The loss of the EBA and EMA along was appalling and only a fraction of a long list of things we gave up :/
I’m not sure which thread you’re replying to - but it isn’t this one.
Giving up the pound is a redline for me and to rejoin would require us to (yet another seismic reason that leave was such a stupid folly) then I don’t think we should.
Just telling people to “get over it”, making up “theatrics” and claiming you deal in “facts” are all hilariously ironic and nostalgic circa 2016.
I’m happy to have a good faith debate with the goal of us all improving all our lives and society - happy to continue if you are, alas your reply isn’t in that spirit.
My point about getting over it is if the conversation is always skewed by people on one side having an ulterior motive in discussions (to rejoin the EU or part of it) then it's impossible to have a good faith debate on it
So let's take the youth mobility scheme for instance...a good idea with possible benefits yes?
But if UK europhiles are just supporting it from the EUs POV only and not the UKs then they are being disingenuous and hypocritical
Which is what is happening...as the UK europhiles are not in uproar about EU cherry picking and demanding better treatment than Australians (for instance) which they should be
I agree, the zealots and bigots on both sides are causing ongoing damage and preventing reconciliation.
That isn’t all europhiles, but enough.
The EU is also, I believe, taking a much firmer line against us than others - see the defense fund membership agreement Canada just signed versus what we’re being offered and yes, your example of the youth mobility scheme also).
One of these we rejected by leaving, the other we’re at the mercy of realpolitik (the French in particular). Reason #289 why Leaving was so harmful to us.
But the EU is negotiating from a position of not just strength (we need both far more than they do) but also self preservation. They cannot allow our choice to be a success - so we’re left with getting what we can, or biding our time until we have more to offer; at the cost of a whole generation not benefiting from the freedom of movement and other benefits we al enjoyed by default.
How can our own europhiles be in uproar when what is happening was predicted and entirely in keeping with the EU central mission?
Germany has had one of the worst 5 years for economy and You are using that for success comparison - 😃
Havent you noticed those carmaker layoffs?
Compare to Poland then we will see who is successful - Polish were one of the people brexit people used "we do not need them eastern europeans". After Brexit UK pivoted to muslim immigrant working force and that made everybody happy of course.
1 - Crimea
2 - Brexit (UK)
3 - Trump (US)
4 - Through Trump, he will persuade and manipulate the following four countries to leave the EU: Austria, Hungary, Italy, and Poland.
5 - And of course Ukraine .
6 - Not adding all the extreme political nationals parties in other countries.
I don’t think some 5d evil Russian plan is happening. I think the politicians supporting democracy and unity are incompetent and paralyzed, and those supporting fascism are chaotic but self assured. So the right wing is getting shit done while the majority of us just sit around and complain on Reddit.
The fact that this is still coming as a shock to people in late 2025 is the reason why giving a binary in/out referendum on an issue most of the public in the UK had little knowledge of was one of the stupidest political decisions in British history. We literally voted to impose economic sanctions on our own country and make trading with our biggest partners thousands times more difficult, how was that ever going to result in anything other but making the country poorer
Its not the end of the world (yet), we just need to learn from our mistakes and make better decisions in the future. Now that we learned the hard way it was rly a bad decision, its time to fix it. Obviously it wont happen over night, but we will get there, step by step.
I live in the Netherlands, went on holiday to the UK this year. Last time i went there was about 15 years ago. Was my girlfriend's first visit and she was shocked by the poverty. Things really have gone downhill. So many homeless people, addicts, racism, bad health, etc.
Roads and cities look much worse than 10 years ago. I know, because i constantly live and drive in the country. That's the first impression you make as a tourist.
Honestly, currently would be a good time for the UK to rejoin the EU and get a somewhat favorable deal. Europe is under threat from all sides, with our former ally stabbing knife after knife into our back.
If the UK were to rejoin it would show that Europe stands more united than ever and it would be enormously beneficial to our economies.
It should be common knowledge that Alexander Dugin, vicious Neo fascist Russian ideologist, wrote “the foundations of geopolitics” in 1997, in which he outlined the separation of Britain from the EU. This book had significant impact on the Russian military and intelligence communities.
That's what's happening if you put your trust in nationalist who cling to what once might was. It should be an example for other countries as well, but some people just learn when it happens to them in person.
Actually, your politicians after Brexit have made things worse for you. How about the high energy prices? Blame the sanctions on Russian hydrocarbons. Typical media is always blaming something else for whatever the current government tells them to blame.
Oh no where is the guy from reddit that had name of the former indian prime minister of UK who was telling me that UK is thriving and they are doing so good and nothing bad is in UK
It doesn't feel too bad to not have the UK anymore in the EU, tbh. They always complained about everything and played wrong games with the other EU countries. I was so certain that the brits are not stupid enough to vote for leave, but hey, here we are now. Now please let's live with it.
The UK needs to rejoin the EU. The EU lost the best country for Americans with EU citizenship jus sanguinis to move to without a major language barrier, and is losing our tremendously on the American talent pool.
I listened to a podcast around the time of Brexit or in the aftermath.I had listened to a lot of stuff around Brexit at the time but this one stood out. It said what will happen with Brexit is Brits will become poorer over a period of 20 years or so. It will be gradual, less trade, less investment, jobs will go elsewhere etc... The guy said people will notice when they go on holidays and they look at the others around them and realise their luggage is better, their clothes are better and people are generally richer. It struck a cord with me as I grew up in Ireland in the 80/90s which was poor and you just knew by looking at other nationalities they were wealthier. I remember my first time going abroad in my teens and having that same feeling.
We recoil at how stupid Americans are when they vote for Trump and other Republicans whose entire platform is about destroying social services for the poor and cutting taxes for the rich. We laugh at them and pretend that we're not just as gullible and swayed by social media and Russian backed propagandists like Nigel Farage.
Meanwhile we vote to leave our largest trading bloc, and Nigel Farage is on his way to becoming the next PM.
It's time to accept that we (Western first-world citizens) are all, in aggregate, just really really dumb.
Talking about stupid, you’re spreading gossip about how Farage is basically the next PM, doing his pr work for him because you can’t resist the chance to have a good gossip about what you’ve been heard.
You know that you have to work for what you want, not just collapse and start spreading the words of those you oppose at the prompting of confident salesmen?
No wonder we struggle, when people like you are undermining everything because you can’t resist unreliable gossip.
Every EU legacy members got poorer too lol.
Ask the French ; Ask the Czech ; The Spanish ; The Germans … if their buying power has increased since 2016
Well, yes. But this ship had sailed - there's no going back now. Maybe some future UK government would manage to get into the customs union or some other economic arrangement with the EU, but that's about the top limit of the integration possibilities. The 'ole britain will have to do the political and security parts mostly alone.
It's one of the big reasons why I'm starting to lose faith in democracy, 49% of the group has to fall of a cliff to their deaths because the other 51% think that jumping off a cliff is a good idea. And then during the fall many of that 51% suddenly are like "Ohhhhh wait i actually thought about it now, maybe this wasn't a good idea".
Isn't Brexit by itself. Brexit is just another factor atop a bad situation caused by the loss of manufacturing and technological superiority.
Europe to an extend survives on services. Services by themselves are not an engine for world wide power.
My personal take, we need to bring back the manufacturing and the expertise that comes along with it.
Remove all import taxes for some products, even from China. 0 taxes but mandate local factories. Do to them what they and US did to us.
Take electric cars for example. Remove taxes but mandate that 30-50% of the cars sold to be produced in EU. That will force car companies to subsidize the price of cars produced in Europe.
Earlier estimates put the impact at 2 to 4% of GDP, but last month’s numbers raised that to 6 to 8%. For anyone accusing of living in an echo chamber :
this isn’t an “I told you so” moment anymore.
It’s a “oh fuck, this is far worse than we thought” moment.
People don’t seem to grasp that 6 to 8% of GDP is the kind of growth any country would dream of, and instead the UK is losing it. We’ve gone from bad to borderline catastrophic.
If you think that the UK missed out on 6-8% of growth (that would make it faster growing than India in that time period...), than I have a bridge to sell you. Perhaps you should consider the source and model that brough those stats about?
Incredible, we're rediscovering that unity is strength! But also that dividing makes it easier to rule... What have we learned from history?
Apparently nothing
Like always, the history will repeat itself in 10-50 years... Then another OddlySuitable2 will ask the same question on reddit 2 and another mariusherea2 will give the same answer 😂
Let’s hope in 50 years the same mariusherea gives the same answer. Redditing at 100 yo doesn’t sound so bad.
Throughout modern history, when international trade halts or is slowed down there is a negative economic and social impact - it's why the post war institutions were so focused on promoting liberalised trade.
Anyone who knew anything about history, even to a relatively small degree, could have seen the Brexit disaster coming. Anyone saying "well it wasn't managed properly and that's why it failed" is just proving their ignorance publicly.
This is the sad truth.
I have a list of reasons why I vote to stay and history is one of them. Plus you know not being a total racist twat 🙄, just wish people took it more seriously at the time. I've watched for the past 10 years as the country turned slowly in too an over priced shot hole and one of the main assholes who promoted it is now ahead in the early poles. Im done with this place if reform get in I have an out I will be using it if that happens.
I absolutely agree but i will argue that it was badly managed (although not for the reason other people might say).
What i think is still absolutely mindboggling is why the government decided to go forward after the result was this close (49/51%!) How can you divide your own country that much? Instead of saying 'look, the results are so close and this topic is so important and controversial that untill we reach a margin of at least 25% we hold the decision off' But no, they went 'the people have spoken yada yada' and that was that. So the mismanagement lies in the way they handled the result.
In the words of the great Lebowski: That's just stupid man...
What also happened was the UK triggering Brexit officially with the EU without any plan whatsoever. I remember some EU negotiators saying that the UK was completely unprepared in the meetings and thought this would go swimmingly on its own. It was foolish from start to finish and the finish is yet to be reached.
Government went with a result because David Cameron the pro remain leader. Said The government would respect the result.
All remainers had to do to stop it was vote for the liberal Democrats in 2019.
Because they got what they wanted it was never for the people they wanted the country to crash so they could do a buy out, farage USA mates made a killing buying up tons of business and land for a cut rate, yes with a vote this close they should of done a revote but what is done is done, and its all starting to catch up on us and all we can really do is work though this and hopefully vote more carefully in the future, mps are not are friends they don't care for us or the country they are playing a game to make money quickly anyone with this much power will eventually sell out its just humanity base instincts. We need to hold them to account for there actions so it doesn't had again and place new laws in to stop it happening in the future. Just look at reform at the moment and where they get there funding from its scary.
That line could be written in a Black Adder episode with Rowan Atkinson and Hugh Laurie!
Poverty and desperation stalk the land, like two.. giant... stalking things.
I love how immediately preceding brexit in Scotland they ran the better together campaign
That the guys in power only act in their own benefit, which is to weaken us but they forgot they're standing on the foundations too.
Rinse, repeat. This is a filter we'll never pass, no empire will last and we'll be stuck divided. In some way, this is our own Babel.
Indeed. The whole point of EU was evolved from the political philosophy of European integration.
It was a long existing concept, and started to take place right after the second world war. That’s because one of the biggest lessons European countries learned from the two world wars was that a scattered Europe is much worse than an integrated Europe.
The lesson was not a lesson learned on paper. The lesson was learned on the basis of blood of millions and costs to generations.
They want to elect the person responsible for this lol
That's the crazy part
That's really f-d up... I guess majority of people are sheeps not thinking at all.......
That xenophobia brings your own ruin in a multipolar world.
A lesson better learnt now than never.
I would take Brits back on pre-Brexit conditions, no questions asked.
You sure? The UK was the Murican man on the inside, you guys could benefit from the UK being a member again, but its privileges cannot return as they were in an unique position to abuse them and did so fairly often (most EU members agree on that).
If you guys were serious you would be on talks with Turkey to secure their alliance against Russia outside the context of NATO an organism that only exist as long as the US wants it to exist, also why are you buying overpriced US gas instead of buying and installing enough solar/wind/nuclear to wean off the need to import fossil fuels for energy generation?
Get the east of europe (north, center) to militarize and modernize their combat capabilities, get the west and south to produce energy by using renewables and revitalize their industries, get france and Germany to do both... Turkey secures the south east.
Should be easy and wouldn't need to boost military expending by buying overpriced American systems.
Why? So you can then do Brexit 2.0 in several years when another donkey politician tells you "We send all this money to Brussels! It's time to take back control!!!"
Actions have consequences. If the UK wants to rejoin, it needs to do so without the special EU treatment it had.
The proper British way to resolve this whole mess, is to pretend that nothing disagreeable happened, ignore the whole embarrassment, and carry on like everything was exactly like before the drinking began..
England prevails?
AFAIKS the world went to shit in 2008, when we were forced to pay the gambling debts of a wunch of bankers, when we discovered they had been gambling with our money. Since then, every time we seem like getting back on our feet some shock knocks us back on our knees. Up to that point the world was gradually improving.
I’m always amazed that people treat Gordon Brown like a voice of he people.
He raided our tax money to fund the corporate and hedge fund takeover of the country, joining other right wing governments in creating a vast slush fund out of our taxes. And now they own everything, and are tightening the screws.
And we’re still waiting for them to do anything about climate change, as we were promised. No market-led solutions unless we boycott unsustainability - which everyone knows we won’t do.
UK electricity generation also peaked in the mid 2000's.
But now the border control blocks all migrants, right? And about NHS, is it better?
Turns out UK politicians are worse than their EU counterparts.
And that's a pretty damn low bar.
That’s what was totally hilarious so instead of dissipating some power to the EU we gave it all to Boris Johnson who handed it his unelected mates.
The only logically defensible argument for Brexit was sovereignty. For me, that was still a con of Brexit, because I didn't want to give even more control to our absolute fuckwit politicians.
I agree but even that was misleading, because whilst we got more ‘control’ we lost the power of being in the union, so that extra control was less useful, hence why we ended up not being able to capitalise on it.
The problem with brexit is that it was all explained unilaterally, i.e ‘we can make trade deals that suit us, not the EU’, as if the people we were making a deal with had no say in the matter.
We became rule takers instead of makers, because we lost all bargaining power with the EU, and outside the EU had nothing special to offer.
The funniest is getting screwed by Outside Country import rules on fish and seafood that we pushed to protect our fishing industry.
God the fucking fishing industry. It's absolutely ludicrous that so much airtime was and still is given to an industry that contributes less to our economy than fucking OnlyFans does.
'all our fish is sold to the French and Scandinavians, let's protect the industry by making it impossible to sell to them'
There's is an even lower bar you can go under...
You can still make Farage president.
A Farage now unrestrained by those pesky EU regulations, ready to sell absolutely everything to the US and its slave-driver corporations.
Without anyone telling him he can't. Aren't you glad you got rid of all that fastidious Brussels red tape?
All those workers protections, all those environmental protections, that the wasteful universal health... They were getting in the way of American trillionaires becoming richer. You wouldn't want that for the UK.
/S
I think you mean PM - Farage can't become president :)
https://youtu.be/rvYuoWyk8iU?si=b_pOMo_Adib5-jKX
Who do you think the EU politicians are?
One hospital built every single WEEK! Like what the bus said!!
Seriously, the Brits are going to vote Farage next cycle. We need to stop hoping for rejoining.
Stop falling for the propaganda billionaires are spreading about how his election is inevitable.
You just make it worse, and you’re doing their work for free.
There are years to go till the next election, and the noise around this has plenty of time to die out if excitable kids don’t join in so they feel like they’re part of spreading what they’ve heard about.
Stop spreading their gossip, if you actually care. Grow up and take it seriously for a change, or it gets worse.
You’re the one that isn’t taking it seriously. Every single poll on the matter shows reform UK are well ahead. Burying your head in the sand isn’t going to make things better you know?
We are seeing in live time how reform can’t govern with the councils they have taken control of, it’s a long time till a general election.
Also take into account the people most likely to vote in a poll are people who are against the current government.
He has some serious support but we’ve seen time and time again in the UK that their arguments fall apart with facts and figures while they have zero responses to actual problems.
Last year at this time, very single poll said that the Conservatives were going to sweep Canada.
Now not only did the Liberals win, the Conservatives are defecting to the Liberal party in numbers such that the Liberals are now just one seat away from having a parliamentary majority
It ain't over till its over
I don't think this will happen. Current opinion polls, 3 years away from the election, are pretty meaningless.
Nigel Farage is not capable of building a team that would be a credible government.
If credibility mattered, do you think Brexit would have happened in the first place?
You're overestimating the intelligence of the voting population
I'd love to share your optimism, but the idiocy of gammons is a force we have underestimated way too many times.
Still have to wait 6 years for an appointment just to be sent away with a Paracetamol?
Kick off all immigrants! It will work this time, I promise.
https://i.imgur.com/cKzEcFm.png
https://postimg.cc/QBkyGV32 for our UK brethren without a VPN.
Metaphor for the UK- imgur no longer works with a UK ip address
The dynamic between Brexit and the NHS is like the Vader and Padme dialogue at the end of Revenge of the Sith, still waiting for the outrage.
Unless politicians can be held accountable for lies and deception this will continue forever unfortunately.
That’s never going to happen, so we need to think of a way to deal with the problem rather than pout about it not being fair.
NHS was built off the back of immigrants ffs.
Brexit was win for Putin.
For USA too
Pleonasm
Correct
Nice to see it admitted by conservative outlets such as Telegraph and Times, but hey, we all knew that 5 years ago.
Why the battle for Brexit is now a fight to save Western democracy - The Telegraph - January 2019
This chaotic global era will be a golden age for an independent Brexit Britain - The Telegraph - August 2019
Brexit Day marks a historic people's victory against the reeling metropolitan elite - The Telegraph - January 2020
This imperfect Brexit deal means the battle to truly Leave has only just begun - This flawed settlement contains all the ingredients for Remainers to work towards ever-closer EU alignment - The Telegraph - December 2020
The EU is a failed empire that has condemned itself to irrelevance - Every day brings a fresh reminder that the UK was lucky to escape when it still had the opportunity - The Telegraph - October 2021
I'm beginning to fear that Brexit will be crushed - The Telegraph - July 2022
Britain is going to rejoin the EU far sooner than anyone now imagines - It is the Tories’ greatest betrayal: they have made such a hash of the project it is probably unsalvageable - The Telegraph - January 2023
Brexit is finally dead – and the Tory party will soon suffer the same fate - The Telegraph - February 2023
Britain isn’t in ‘managed’ decline. The country is about to fall off a cliff - The Telegraph - August 2023
Britain is now irrationally terrified of freedom. It should just rejoin the EU - Even as a Brexiteer, I’m starting to think the time has come to cut our losses and embrace the security of the Brussels fold - The Telegraph - April 2024
They’re trying to win back the idea that they’re serious, so they can lie to us again.
Look at their ideas about climate changes, they need us to trust that we can keep on without change, and just blame other people while saying we’ve done enough.
Brexit was yesterday’s battle of lies.
It’s been almost 10 years…
UK left EU in 2020
~In 2021, if you want to be a pedant;~ what I mean is drawbacks were clear in 2016 too when the vote happened
I knew it before the referendum was ever announced. I shouted it from the roof tops, but people just got angry with me.
It’s not getting better if people keep voting for ruzzian agents like farage.
They won't see that until after his third term.
If ever. Speculating on the intelligence of people in general is usually a losing bet. Better to prepare for the worst.
Obviously. Everybody saw it coming.
It's called compounded losses.
Or... Or this thread is just yet another self validating echo chamber. See you all in tomorrow's thread about the same topic.
I take your point, but I think this article is important. It is well written, and from a respected source. Your mind may have been made up long ago (as was mine) but there are still people out there who need convincing, and their being convinced would be to the benefit of society.
Those people have left this echo chamber long ago. I'm just here for the shit and giggle.
That’s what Reddit is all about. Some people love their echo chamber.
The people who voted Brexit don’t care if it makes us poorer, as long as everyone else suffers they don’t care.
It’s the same with Reform, it’s just crabs in a bucket mentality. It’s politics of envy. They want to bring others down, and won’t ever admit that they were wrong.
Immigration up, NHS is worse shape, economy in worst shape, infrastructure and road are much worse than 10 years ago, prices much higher on everything. But at least we have less influence in the world and Europe now. We can't stop winning!
At least you can wave your blue-coloured EU-manufactured passport when queuing in EU airports s/
At least you have Brexit to blame and don't say it's a mere issue of immigration, even though these developments are happening in most Western countries.
Sure, Brexit is never to blame. Even tho pretty much everyone, including the government (and opposition) admitted that Brexit was a mistake and was bad for the economy and businesses (and relations and influence), brexiters will never admit it. Too much stupidity and ego.
Obama tried hard to warn you.
You have to see the positiv. The people who actually voted for Brexit died of old age by now.
Get back in!
This 👆
A wrong turn doesn’t end the journey. The past can’t be undone, but repair its impact is possible.
It’s not that simple and even if we did apply why would Russia’s vassals in the EU let us in?
We will do our best to remove them, on the citizen level I think most would welcome you. I would for sure.
People won't vote for it
They will.
Most of the Brexit voters are either dead or regret their vote. There’s around a 8M majority for returning to the UK at this point
EDIT: adding sources
https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/2016-leave-majority-has-literally-died-out-polling-expert-reveals-401296/
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/51484-how-do-britons-feel-about-brexit-five-years-on
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2025/06/27/bregretful-majority-of-uk-citizens-today-would-vote-to-stay-in-the-eu-new-poll-reveals
I thought that but the rise of reform tells me maybe that ain't the case.
Exactly
The evidence overwhelmingly says they won't
I've been saying this to europhiles for years but they refuse to grasp basic facts and are still in the denial period
The UK is not rejoining the EU
People are voting for Reform based on immigration not because of their stance with the EU, but they don't care about that because immigration is their top issue as they believe the hospital are overrun by immigrants, jobs have been suppressed by immigrants, and most crime is committed by immigrants, it's ridiculous.
There's a funny video of reform voters where they are asked about what they think about reforms policies not on immigration. They suddenly couldn't string a sentence together. Not that they were articulate to begin with.
The primary reason people voted out was because of it, logic be damned. The next far down the list was the ideas around sovereignty which they pretended to care about.
Reform have experienced a rise in support, but that doesn’t mean they’re a majority. They are far from that at about 27%.
I know, in not convinced they'll get in with the political system like people say they are guaranteed. But at the same time I'm not convinced about the idea a new EU vote would be different now.
You crunch the numbers 30% will almost certainly get them a majority
Anything over 25% will make them a majority partner in a coalition
If the UK could rejoin with it's original conditions, I think there would be a good chance of rejoining. Pro-EU brits would be all for it, and there are more Brexit-skeptics than EU skeptics.
However, I doubt the UK would get the same treatment (e.g. keeping the £) as was originally in place, which makes it a near impossible sell.
I think keeping £ would be easy to negotiate. Especially in the current political climate.
Why keeping the pound? Euro is spreading and getting stronger by the day
Getting stronger whilst France continues it's deep dive towards being Greece 2.0? Tell us again who exactly is going to bailout France?
The fact that a country can be bailed out (partially but not even partially with MES) is already a great tool. Whi would save britain? Euro is expanding to albania, bulgaria and in future ukraine. The more money around the less printing new money affects inflation(USA teaches us)
France isn't getting bailed out..It's not Greece, this is a $3trillion economy, even if direct fiscal transfers were available (they aren't as there is no common fiscal union), no-one has the financial firepower to cover them. It will just be a full sovereign debt crisis, followed by a balance of payments crisis straight into Eurocrisis 2.0, just this time there is nothing to prop up the black hole.
The Bank of England? The UK has a full fiscal and monetary union, there is no issue with a balance of payments crisis, the central bank can simply print money and inject it directly into the economy to prop things up.
What? That's non-sensical, monetary debasement is only manageable so long as their is still constant demand for bonds to hoover up newly issued money, the US gets away with that because the dollar being global reserve currency means countries are forced to buy US bonds to be able to trade in dollars.
The Euro doesn't have anywhere near that level of demand, in fact its become even more of a struggle and quite fucking dangeorus recently as fiscally prudent countries like Germany, the Netherlands etc are usually restrained in bond issuance, something that France took advantage off post 2008 to issue even more bonds to creditors looking for exposure to euro denominated debt, which now we can see the disasterous effect of them being so exposed to international holders of their debt at a time when their bond yields are spiking as their state finances are spiralling which is where fears of a sovereign debt crisis come from.
see that 8M majority collapse, once the Brits realise that EU membership would entail € membership, joining Schengen and probably a much more integrated defense and foreign policy
Then why didn't they last year?
Why are Reform leading polls now ...and with the equally anti EU Tories added that's pretty much 50% of the electorate
So ...no they won't
By the 2029 UK general election, there will be people aged fucking 30 who were too young to vote in the 2016 EU referendum.
That’s millions of adults living under miserable economic conditions who will be eager to vote for a rejoin party by then. Of course they could also vote for Farage’s even more far right anti-EU party, but the data shows how much his Brexit has cost us
Then it's best we see how they vote in 2029 before we move forward like you say
We agree 👍
Because they are no allowed to vote. Just like Scottish people not allowed to vote for independence. The majority would vote to rejoin.
Why didn't they then?
Scotland or UK?
Independence has NEVER been the majority vote in Scotland...in ANY vote
Same with remaining in the EU in 2016 2017 or 2019
Same with rejoining the EU last year
Why would Brussels care about the UK when they don't even vote to rejoin?
How about no? We don't need a flip flopping ex member who treated EU membership like a supermarket fidelity card and sabotaged it from within
They were being lied to.
Just join back, we need each other more than ever.
"We will probably never make up the ground we’ve lost but the numbers do suggest that restoring borderless trade with the EU would bring big economic benefits. And since those who think Brexit has been a failure outnumber those who think it has been a success by 61 per cent to 13, I doubt the political cost would be significant."
There it is, a clarion call for the grownups in charge to change their minds now the facts have changed...
All efforts by the NatC (National Conservative global movement) to promote a party or position in National and EU elections/referendums must be resisted. If Musk says Afd, irrespective of your dislike for policies of the alternatives vote for them, vote for any of them, any alternative. Vote, do not stay at home. Their efforts will be relentless, and their media/propaganda will be strong. DO NOT LET THEM GET THEIR FOOT IN THE DOOR.
But it’s ok the racist and Russians can now thrive !! Brexit was the biggest mistake ever
Mistake implies those cunts didn't know what they were doing.
Brexit was a win for Putin (to divide Europe further) and America (Republicans), so that America can manipulate and have more ecnomic control over the UK/EU. If you think about it, Russia and America (under Trump) want the exact same thing: a disrupted, divided Europe, for both of them to carve up.
Before trump too, less overt only
What a surprise, the “experts” told us it would happen, it would obviously happen and they said don’t believe experts.
ruZZian assets pushed for it. You voted it. They went away. You still didn't start negotiating to rejoin (ego of losing the special status in the EU) . Now same asset(s) want back in power, and it looks like you're voting them again, instead of investigating them for treason.
UK took one for the team - Much harder now for populist country leaders to sell "it is better outside EU" world.
UK has grown faster than Germany since leaving the EU ...same as France
It's forecast to grow faster than Europe over the next decade or so too
They'll be fine
Fine, sure - as well off as if we had remained?
Plenty of evidence to support we are not- socially, economically and politically.
Economically as stated, the UK has outpaced the major EU economies in terms of growth since Brexit.
It's not unreasonable to suggest that such growth would have been stifled has we remained in the EU.
I should state that I am pro-EU in the sense of cooperation is better than isolation. But the UK will never rejoin without some major concessions both ways. I doubt we'll see the UK back in the EU in my lifetime.
Yeah I said in another reply - giving up the pound would be required, so I'm not a fan.
I don't agree it's reasonable to think that growth would have been stifled, the drop in FDI, the time and effort to unhook ourselves - would have put us on an even keel at the least. In my opinion (and despite trying to be objective I see very little analysis to counter that).
But, economics was only part of my point. The loss of the EBA and EMA along was appalling and only a fraction of a long list of things we gave up :/
Doppelganger economic forecasts are pointless ...and well known to be inaccurate and biased
The decision was taken
Time we all moved on
I don’t disagree with moving on - but not in a vacuum.
To ignore the impact and not learn from the cause would be delinquent to our responsibilities as voters.
We can only learn when ex remainers accept reality
And we deal in facts not pointless biased nonsense that they wish were true
The UK isn't rejoining ...so stop with the theatrics
I’m not sure which thread you’re replying to - but it isn’t this one.
Giving up the pound is a redline for me and to rejoin would require us to (yet another seismic reason that leave was such a stupid folly) then I don’t think we should.
Just telling people to “get over it”, making up “theatrics” and claiming you deal in “facts” are all hilariously ironic and nostalgic circa 2016.
I’m happy to have a good faith debate with the goal of us all improving all our lives and society - happy to continue if you are, alas your reply isn’t in that spirit.
My point about getting over it is if the conversation is always skewed by people on one side having an ulterior motive in discussions (to rejoin the EU or part of it) then it's impossible to have a good faith debate on it
So let's take the youth mobility scheme for instance...a good idea with possible benefits yes?
But if UK europhiles are just supporting it from the EUs POV only and not the UKs then they are being disingenuous and hypocritical
Which is what is happening...as the UK europhiles are not in uproar about EU cherry picking and demanding better treatment than Australians (for instance) which they should be
I agree, the zealots and bigots on both sides are causing ongoing damage and preventing reconciliation.
That isn’t all europhiles, but enough.
The EU is also, I believe, taking a much firmer line against us than others - see the defense fund membership agreement Canada just signed versus what we’re being offered and yes, your example of the youth mobility scheme also).
One of these we rejected by leaving, the other we’re at the mercy of realpolitik (the French in particular). Reason #289 why Leaving was so harmful to us.
But the EU is negotiating from a position of not just strength (we need both far more than they do) but also self preservation. They cannot allow our choice to be a success - so we’re left with getting what we can, or biding our time until we have more to offer; at the cost of a whole generation not benefiting from the freedom of movement and other benefits we al enjoyed by default.
How can our own europhiles be in uproar when what is happening was predicted and entirely in keeping with the EU central mission?
It’s a terrible position to be in.
See now you talk much more reasonably and I have no issue haha
Even in the points I disagree with you on ...the EU negotiating from a position of strength
If it was genuinely strong and confident in it's own position it wouldn't act so punitively and keep shooting itself in the foot would it
For me it acts in desperation
Yeah..... we will bet much better off.
Germany has had one of the worst 5 years for economy and You are using that for success comparison - 😃
Havent you noticed those carmaker layoffs?
Compare to Poland then we will see who is successful - Polish were one of the people brexit people used "we do not need them eastern europeans". After Brexit UK pivoted to muslim immigrant working force and that made everybody happy of course.
Not sure about harder. Voters who vote for them, don't actually seek out truth, they believe what they are being told.
Putin is dismantling EU.
1 - Crimea
2 - Brexit (UK)
3 - Trump (US)
4 - Through Trump, he will persuade and manipulate the following four countries to leave the EU: Austria, Hungary, Italy, and Poland.
5 - And of course Ukraine .
6 - Not adding all the extreme political nationals parties in other countries.
edit: paragraphs
I don’t think some 5d evil Russian plan is happening. I think the politicians supporting democracy and unity are incompetent and paralyzed, and those supporting fascism are chaotic but self assured. So the right wing is getting shit done while the majority of us just sit around and complain on Reddit.
You haven't been paying attention then. Everything that has happened so far has been written in a 90s Russian manifesto.
…and the US trying to have a few countries leave the EU…will work like a charm, guaranteed!
The fact that this is still coming as a shock to people in late 2025 is the reason why giving a binary in/out referendum on an issue most of the public in the UK had little knowledge of was one of the stupidest political decisions in British history. We literally voted to impose economic sanctions on our own country and make trading with our biggest partners thousands times more difficult, how was that ever going to result in anything other but making the country poorer
Next up, Farage gets voted in…
Lesson. Don't leave it to idiots to make decisions where they don't understand and are not capable of understanding, the consequences.
Its not the end of the world (yet), we just need to learn from our mistakes and make better decisions in the future. Now that we learned the hard way it was rly a bad decision, its time to fix it. Obviously it wont happen over night, but we will get there, step by step.
If only there had been people clearly and repeatedly stating exactly this (and proving why they said it) at the time!
I live in the Netherlands, went on holiday to the UK this year. Last time i went there was about 15 years ago. Was my girlfriend's first visit and she was shocked by the poverty. Things really have gone downhill. So many homeless people, addicts, racism, bad health, etc.
I wil never not love the UK but JFC.
Where did you go on holiday in UK that you saw lots of poverty?
Roads and cities look much worse than 10 years ago. I know, because i constantly live and drive in the country. That's the first impression you make as a tourist.
Not many tourists are driving around though are they
And he said poverty and homelessness,racism etc
It's not really credible that is it
Definitely seems like hyperbolic lying to me
Putin dismantling the EU and you cheering for it. There was 0 benefit of Brexit. What is the pound exchange rate again compared to before Brexit?
Depends which time period you pick
I don't want the EU dismantling ...I'm an EU citizen and it's been great for my country
But its been terrible for the UK which is why I voted to leave it
I would vote remain if my own country had a referendum on it (if I was allowed a vote)
If you think this about the UK, you've never opened your eyes in the Netherlands.
I was in Breda for business recently and was less than impressed...
This may be true but it has nothing to do with Brexit.
Shocked by the poverty?
Its stuff like this that I cant take seriously. This sub acts like the UK suddenly turned into a hellscape immediately after the vote.
Also constant comments about how our economy is destroyed when we are pretty much as stagnant as the rest of western Europe.
That 15 years roughly lines up with the period the tories were in charge and absolutely gutting everything. Brexit is just one part of what you saw
Honestly, currently would be a good time for the UK to rejoin the EU and get a somewhat favorable deal. Europe is under threat from all sides, with our former ally stabbing knife after knife into our back.
If the UK were to rejoin it would show that Europe stands more united than ever and it would be enormously beneficial to our economies.
It should be common knowledge that Alexander Dugin, vicious Neo fascist Russian ideologist, wrote “the foundations of geopolitics” in 1997, in which he outlined the separation of Britain from the EU. This book had significant impact on the Russian military and intelligence communities.
Then, there was Brexit.
I’ve a great idea. Vote reform and Nigel Farage the architect of it all as PM. The country will surely prosper then. /s
That's what's happening if you put your trust in nationalist who cling to what once might was. It should be an example for other countries as well, but some people just learn when it happens to them in person.
It’s okay. Nigel is coming to save the day!
/s
Just like russia wanted
Actually, your politicians after Brexit have made things worse for you. How about the high energy prices? Blame the sanctions on Russian hydrocarbons. Typical media is always blaming something else for whatever the current government tells them to blame.
Not exactly exclusive. Both brexit and current bullshit ain't helping us.
Oh no where is the guy from reddit that had name of the former indian prime minister of UK who was telling me that UK is thriving and they are doing so good and nothing bad is in UK
It doesn't feel too bad to not have the UK anymore in the EU, tbh. They always complained about everything and played wrong games with the other EU countries. I was so certain that the brits are not stupid enough to vote for leave, but hey, here we are now. Now please let's live with it.
Yeah they vetoed every integration...
Kind of funny coming from an Italian
Italy which has been in stagnation for the last 3 decades and has debts to GDP of 140% and twice the unemployment rate of UK
Hooray what a success
And Trump would like another 4 member countries to abandon the EU for MAGA.
Meanwhile the EU is getting richer everyday.
And now you’re gearing up to vote for the poster child
Oh well.
It won’t happen for quite a while (barring any war that might pop up)
But you can always Brejoin
The UK needs to rejoin the EU. The EU lost the best country for Americans with EU citizenship jus sanguinis to move to without a major language barrier, and is losing our tremendously on the American talent pool.
If money is all you love, then that's what you'll receive - Princess Leia
"Everything That Has Transpired Has Done So According To My Design" - Emperor Palputin
And the same will happen to Italy, Austria, Hungary and Poland if they blindly let political parties follow Putin and Trump.
I listened to a podcast around the time of Brexit or in the aftermath.I had listened to a lot of stuff around Brexit at the time but this one stood out. It said what will happen with Brexit is Brits will become poorer over a period of 20 years or so. It will be gradual, less trade, less investment, jobs will go elsewhere etc... The guy said people will notice when they go on holidays and they look at the others around them and realise their luggage is better, their clothes are better and people are generally richer. It struck a cord with me as I grew up in Ireland in the 80/90s which was poor and you just knew by looking at other nationalities they were wealthier. I remember my first time going abroad in my teens and having that same feeling.
The war will save you.
Brexit. Greatest own goal in British history.
Oh noes, if only an entire continent would have told you so before you voted for this self inflicted economic disaster.
https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/theresa-may-laugh-brexit-gif-12518193
And still Nigel Farage has a huge following. When are you going to wake up?
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/749128
Let’s get another debate
We recoil at how stupid Americans are when they vote for Trump and other Republicans whose entire platform is about destroying social services for the poor and cutting taxes for the rich. We laugh at them and pretend that we're not just as gullible and swayed by social media and Russian backed propagandists like Nigel Farage.
Meanwhile we vote to leave our largest trading bloc, and Nigel Farage is on his way to becoming the next PM.
It's time to accept that we (Western first-world citizens) are all, in aggregate, just really really dumb.
it's not first world citizens, it;s all humans..
african or south american citizens also keep voting for corrupt fraudsters , drug barons and other demagogues .
people are just easily deceived with false promises
Talking about stupid, you’re spreading gossip about how Farage is basically the next PM, doing his pr work for him because you can’t resist the chance to have a good gossip about what you’ve been heard.
You know that you have to work for what you want, not just collapse and start spreading the words of those you oppose at the prompting of confident salesmen?
No wonder we struggle, when people like you are undermining everything because you can’t resist unreliable gossip.
Every EU legacy members got poorer too lol. Ask the French ; Ask the Czech ; The Spanish ; The Germans … if their buying power has increased since 2016
Ok, ask me
If Brexit didn’t happen we’d still be poor just with something else to blame…
Well, yes. But this ship had sailed - there's no going back now. Maybe some future UK government would manage to get into the customs union or some other economic arrangement with the EU, but that's about the top limit of the integration possibilities. The 'ole britain will have to do the political and security parts mostly alone.
It's one of the big reasons why I'm starting to lose faith in democracy, 49% of the group has to fall of a cliff to their deaths because the other 51% think that jumping off a cliff is a good idea. And then during the fall many of that 51% suddenly are like "Ohhhhh wait i actually thought about it now, maybe this wasn't a good idea".
In this case it was 29% of the population. (52% of those who could and bothered to vote)
Isn't Brexit by itself. Brexit is just another factor atop a bad situation caused by the loss of manufacturing and technological superiority.
Europe to an extend survives on services. Services by themselves are not an engine for world wide power.
My personal take, we need to bring back the manufacturing and the expertise that comes along with it.
Remove all import taxes for some products, even from China. 0 taxes but mandate local factories. Do to them what they and US did to us.
Take electric cars for example. Remove taxes but mandate that 30-50% of the cars sold to be produced in EU. That will force car companies to subsidize the price of cars produced in Europe.
Earlier estimates put the impact at 2 to 4% of GDP, but last month’s numbers raised that to 6 to 8%. For anyone accusing of living in an echo chamber :
this isn’t an “I told you so” moment anymore.
It’s a “oh fuck, this is far worse than we thought” moment.
People don’t seem to grasp that 6 to 8% of GDP is the kind of growth any country would dream of, and instead the UK is losing it. We’ve gone from bad to borderline catastrophic.
If you think that the UK missed out on 6-8% of growth (that would make it faster growing than India in that time period...), than I have a bridge to sell you. Perhaps you should consider the source and model that brough those stats about?