1565, the walls of Malta protected it's defenders from the massive army of sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. 350 year later his descendant lands there, seeking protection.
He died in his home in Italy, Sanremo, on the Ligurian Riviera, once part of the Republic of Genoa, a thalassocracy that for centuries traded with and fought the Ottomans. Remarkable what time allows for
I mean to be honest even historically the Genoese relationship with the Ottomans was complicated. For example when the Ottomans were trying to breach Constantinople walls while some Genoese individuals (like Giustiniani for example) supported and fought alongside the Byzantines, the Genoese colony in the Golden Horn largely minded its own business as the Ottomans breached the city’s walls, reportedly hauling their ships overland into the Golden Horn without dismantling the supposedly massive Byzantine chain. The Tower of Galata, built by the Genoese in 1348, still stands (obviously the Ottomans added/changed some parts: the roof) as a quiet witness to centuries of commerce and compromise. That neighborhood left a lasting mark, and traces of Genoese heritage can still be found among some families in Istanbul
As a non-Turk I honestly want there to be normalisation of relations with Greece and the reunification of Cyprus first. Something like the present-day peace process with the Kurds except also with Greece and Cyprus. Because I do not think the opposition parties would be open to it.
I also think the present US administration wants the AKP to remain in power in Turkey in the foreseeable future perhaps ideally with Tayyip Erdoğan's son Bilal succeeding him by 2028 with Turkey eventually switching to a dynastic quasi-monarchial model of governance (somewhat similar to the previous Ottoman system actually).
I will get downvoted to hell for this but the present day peace process with Kurds is not what it seems like. Erdogan making deal with DEM party (kurdish party supporting PKK) by releasing PKK members that actually killed tens of civilians will not bring peace to people. But why is he doing this ? Because if he wants to be a candidate and “win” the election again he needs that sweet sweet kurdish votes. Because he knows he’s not gonna win anymore, that’s why he’s getting more aggressive day by day. He literally imprisoned the most popular opposition candidate. Any position of governmental jobs are just full of his supporters. A few days ago a police officer got fired because there was a video of him telling people how erdogan is doing the wrong by making deal with the organization that killed civilians in Turkey. But other cops that ripped Turkish flags, beat the sht out of people during the protests are just doing fine. This country is rotting from head to toe. Yes, PKK withdrawn in Turkey, they left their weapons, now their members are wearing suits and working in the government jobs while the actual qualified regular citizens that pays their taxes and dont commit any crime are struggling to afford a simple life. It would be absurd if Erdogan would do anything favorable for people anyway, but yeah sure peace ✌🏻
The Referendum in 2004 happened because EU ascension a was its carrot. For a country to ascend to EU, it needs territorial integrity and no-ongoing conflict(*). But Cyprus did ascend to EU in 2004, partially thanks to Greece's threat to veto the whole 2004 ascension.
(*) Technically no, but commonly accepted consequence of other rules.
It still would require agreements for three movement for the Turks living on Cyprus as well as their relatives and goods. At that point you could just add Turkey to the EU.
Turkey has a huge population. The number of Turkish nationals in Cyprus is tiny in comparison, and the greek cypriot position has been that the number of those who will remain in a unification scenario needs to be minimised.
a non-Turk I honestly want there to be normalisation of relations with Greece and the reunification of Cyprus first. Something like the present-day peace process with the Kurds except also with Greece and Cyprus. Because I do not think the opposition parties would be open to it.
The Annan plan is still sitting on the shelf waiting. The Turkish side isn't going to reopen it because that would be a concession. So right now it's "take it or leave it" and the Greek side says "leave it" it's going to continue like this for the foreseeable future
As I said, any serious model for reunification will take a very different form than the Annan plan. I am not sure why Turkey should reopen it as it had already been rejected in a referendum 2004 and nothing indicates that it would be accepted by Greek Cypriots at present. It’s never been on the table since then in any of the reunification talks.
Right so Greeks won't accept it, Turks won't reopen it. So the status quo remains. It sits on the shelf until something changes, which won't be for the foreseeable future
Mehmet VI was openly a British collaborator and sent an army of religious zealots to crush the Turkish independence movement.
There is a reason Ataturk became such a staunch secularist and brought laws from Switzerland, Italy, Germany and other countries to solidify a secular regime; English, as well as the Sultan, used religion as a weapon to advance their agenda.
Sultan was a palace boy, he was motivated by keeping his title and palace and did not care that rest of the country was about to get shared amongst English, French, Italians and Greeks.
Yes, this is even more interesting as a lot of conservatives who were unhappy with the new Turkish regime moved to Cyprus from Anatolia in the 1920s and 30s (Cyprus was not the only destination, but it was one of the major ones, along with Egypt and Albania)
Necati bey was the first kemalist elected to the Cyprus legislative body in late 20s I think, the other two Muslim members must have been from the old Ottoman elite.
There's a distinction between "We'll get you out of here" and "We'll deliver you to your supporters so you can start a civil war" though. I think it's likely the British just wanted to normalize relations with the new Turkish government and figured that;
A big massacre of the royal family would make that difficult and potentially isolate Turkey internationally
Providing too much help to the royals would anger Turkey
Very true! But it's interesting to think that the last Bonapartist ruler and his family ended up living with the first Napoleon's most persistent enemies.
Well, in a way it's understandable. What followed Napoleon III wasn't much to the liking of the UK, since the Paris Commune is arguably the first attempt in European history of establishing a far left utopian government, and the French Third Republic was rather unstable in the beginning. Same reason why the previous monarchy, the House of Orleans, went into exile in Richmond, IIRC.
But it's also due to the fact that Queen Victoria was on very good terms with empress Eugenie.
The good question is why they settled in England and not in, let's say, Switzerland, Belgium, Italy or other countries that had good relations with the French Second Empire.
Not exactly correct. The government that founded the Republic was generally hostile toward the Ottoman sultans because they were seen as having allowed the country to be occupied—especially the later ones. That’s why they were expelled from the country, and until a decision by another government in the 1970s, they were banned from entering. Protecting him was not, at least at the time, something that helped relations with Turkey.
By the time of WWI the actual Ottoman monarchy had largely lost control of the empire, which was run by the three pashas after the 1913 coup - Talaat, Enver and Djemal. The sultan was reduced to a figure-head, and either way Britain's beef was with the Ottoman Empire as a political entity, not so much with the individual monarch.
After the Ottoman Empire had lost WWI, been reduced to its Turkish heartland and embroiled in internal struggles and war against Turkey, what harm was there for Britain to grant asylum to the powerless, disgraced former Ottoman monarch?
Last sultan and some other people in charge were British mandate supporters, they were against the independence movement and wanted the country to be a british colony, they were traitors basically. The real enemy of the British was Ataturk who was a Turkish nationalist and was deeply against any type of colonialism in the country.
Brits used him to try and suppress the Turkish nationalist resistance who did not recognize the treaty imposed by Britain (and signed by the Sultan).
They would also use him to assert control over Indian Muslims during the Indian independence movement, if they were able to keep him recognized as the Caliph.
1565, the walls of Malta protected it's defenders from the massive army of sultan Suleiman the Magnificent. 350 year later his descendant lands there, seeking protection.
“You could not live with your own failure. Where did that bring you? Back to me”
He died in his home in Italy, Sanremo, on the Ligurian Riviera, once part of the Republic of Genoa, a thalassocracy that for centuries traded with and fought the Ottomans. Remarkable what time allows for
I mean to be honest even historically the Genoese relationship with the Ottomans was complicated. For example when the Ottomans were trying to breach Constantinople walls while some Genoese individuals (like Giustiniani for example) supported and fought alongside the Byzantines, the Genoese colony in the Golden Horn largely minded its own business as the Ottomans breached the city’s walls, reportedly hauling their ships overland into the Golden Horn without dismantling the supposedly massive Byzantine chain. The Tower of Galata, built by the Genoese in 1348, still stands (obviously the Ottomans added/changed some parts: the roof) as a quiet witness to centuries of commerce and compromise. That neighborhood left a lasting mark, and traces of Genoese heritage can still be found among some families in Istanbul
Hopefully we will see the current sultan-wannabe run away like this, like a coward chicken shit that he is.
As a non-Turk I honestly want there to be normalisation of relations with Greece and the reunification of Cyprus first. Something like the present-day peace process with the Kurds except also with Greece and Cyprus. Because I do not think the opposition parties would be open to it.
I also think the present US administration wants the AKP to remain in power in Turkey in the foreseeable future perhaps ideally with Tayyip Erdoğan's son Bilal succeeding him by 2028 with Turkey eventually switching to a dynastic quasi-monarchial model of governance (somewhat similar to the previous Ottoman system actually).
https://www.paturkey.com/news/2025/columnist-claims-u-s-approved-dynasty-for-turkiye-citing-barracks-remarks-25917/
I will get downvoted to hell for this but the present day peace process with Kurds is not what it seems like. Erdogan making deal with DEM party (kurdish party supporting PKK) by releasing PKK members that actually killed tens of civilians will not bring peace to people. But why is he doing this ? Because if he wants to be a candidate and “win” the election again he needs that sweet sweet kurdish votes. Because he knows he’s not gonna win anymore, that’s why he’s getting more aggressive day by day. He literally imprisoned the most popular opposition candidate. Any position of governmental jobs are just full of his supporters. A few days ago a police officer got fired because there was a video of him telling people how erdogan is doing the wrong by making deal with the organization that killed civilians in Turkey. But other cops that ripped Turkish flags, beat the sht out of people during the protests are just doing fine. This country is rotting from head to toe. Yes, PKK withdrawn in Turkey, they left their weapons, now their members are wearing suits and working in the government jobs while the actual qualified regular citizens that pays their taxes and dont commit any crime are struggling to afford a simple life. It would be absurd if Erdogan would do anything favorable for people anyway, but yeah sure peace ✌🏻
Present day peace process is a smoke show, there is no substance to it.
People who are old enough will remember this happened before, it’s a cycle that repeats itself.
PKK declared recently that its members disarmed and quit armed struggle, only to bolster the ranks of another armed group.
There is significant military buildup across the border where various Kurdish factions are getting ready for something.
Looking at the map of the region, I’d feel naive to believe anyone is motivated by peace at all.
That sort of dream died with Cyprus's EU membership.
How so?
The Referendum in 2004 happened because EU ascension a was its carrot. For a country to ascend to EU, it needs territorial integrity and no-ongoing conflict(*). But Cyprus did ascend to EU in 2004, partially thanks to Greece's threat to veto the whole 2004 ascension.
(*) Technically no, but commonly accepted consequence of other rules.
Iirc because a realistic unification would inevitably create backdoor for basically every citizen in Turkey to enter the EU via Cyprus.
No. It's a unification of Cyprus, not an annexation by Turkey
It still would require agreements for three movement for the Turks living on Cyprus as well as their relatives and goods. At that point you could just add Turkey to the EU.
Turkey has a huge population. The number of Turkish nationals in Cyprus is tiny in comparison, and the greek cypriot position has been that the number of those who will remain in a unification scenario needs to be minimised.
As I said
A scenario were Turks living on have to leave Cyprus would never be approved.
The far bigger issue would be the free movement of goods and services.
The Turks living in Cyprus are not 70 million. As for the goods, see post Brexit Ireland.
Maybe that explains why we increasingly have succession to parliamentary power in the U.K. not just to the throne.
The Annan plan is still sitting on the shelf waiting. The Turkish side isn't going to reopen it because that would be a concession. So right now it's "take it or leave it" and the Greek side says "leave it" it's going to continue like this for the foreseeable future
I meant of course reunification based on a reasonable proposal.
Well there's no incentive for the Turkish side to reopen the Annan Plan, it is the only game in town
As I said, any serious model for reunification will take a very different form than the Annan plan. I am not sure why Turkey should reopen it as it had already been rejected in a referendum 2004 and nothing indicates that it would be accepted by Greek Cypriots at present. It’s never been on the table since then in any of the reunification talks.
It was rejected by the Greek side. There's no incentive for the Turkish side to reopen it.
Right. Which is not really surprising imo. I would not have accepted it if I were Cypriot.
See my previous reply.
Right so Greeks won't accept it, Turks won't reopen it. So the status quo remains. It sits on the shelf until something changes, which won't be for the foreseeable future
But I thought Tufan Erhürman - the newly elected Turkish Cypriot leader - is inclined to resume talks about reunification. Or am I wrong?
Good riddance
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehmed_VI
Good bye, Ancien Régime
Mehmet VI was openly a British collaborator and sent an army of religious zealots to crush the Turkish independence movement.
There is a reason Ataturk became such a staunch secularist and brought laws from Switzerland, Italy, Germany and other countries to solidify a secular regime; English, as well as the Sultan, used religion as a weapon to advance their agenda.
Sultan was a palace boy, he was motivated by keeping his title and palace and did not care that rest of the country was about to get shared amongst English, French, Italians and Greeks.
Ottoman Empire was dead for a long time now.
Ataturk is the reason Turkey exists.
Idk man, I think more people died in Turkey because of nationalism than religion
Except for Turkey. Turkey makes a brand new Turkey.
How ironic it is that an Ottoman sultan could only set foot on Malta after losing his title
Interestingly the British didn't bring them to Cyprus where they would have some local support. Likewise in 1941 the greek royals went to Egypt.
Yes, this is even more interesting as a lot of conservatives who were unhappy with the new Turkish regime moved to Cyprus from Anatolia in the 1920s and 30s (Cyprus was not the only destination, but it was one of the major ones, along with Egypt and Albania)
Conservatives unhappy with a (by that time's standards) liberal Turkey moving to Cyprus... the past really is a foreign country huh
Indeed. Also explains the massive Naqshbandi presence in Cyprus (even today).
Necati bey was the first kemalist elected to the Cyprus legislative body in late 20s I think, the other two Muslim members must have been from the old Ottoman elite.
There's a distinction between "We'll get you out of here" and "We'll deliver you to your supporters so you can start a civil war" though. I think it's likely the British just wanted to normalize relations with the new Turkish government and figured that;
A big massacre of the royal family would make that difficult and potentially isolate Turkey internationally
Providing too much help to the royals would anger Turkey
Thus, exile in the UK.
British granted their enemy asylum?
Not for the first time. Napoleon III moved to England after he lost France and his son died fighting for the British Army in the Anglo-Zulu War.
Napoleon III was not an enemy to the UK. During his years as emperor, he was an ally of Britain, for example in the Crimean war.
Very true! But it's interesting to think that the last Bonapartist ruler and his family ended up living with the first Napoleon's most persistent enemies.
Well, in a way it's understandable. What followed Napoleon III wasn't much to the liking of the UK, since the Paris Commune is arguably the first attempt in European history of establishing a far left utopian government, and the French Third Republic was rather unstable in the beginning. Same reason why the previous monarchy, the House of Orleans, went into exile in Richmond, IIRC.
But it's also due to the fact that Queen Victoria was on very good terms with empress Eugenie.
The good question is why they settled in England and not in, let's say, Switzerland, Belgium, Italy or other countries that had good relations with the French Second Empire.
they were no longer enemies.
looking merciful is good.
Brits could keep a close eye on them.
respect between royal houses.
they could be useful later in diplomatic relations, especially with the new Turkey.
Not exactly correct. The government that founded the Republic was generally hostile toward the Ottoman sultans because they were seen as having allowed the country to be occupied—especially the later ones. That’s why they were expelled from the country, and until a decision by another government in the 1970s, they were banned from entering. Protecting him was not, at least at the time, something that helped relations with Turkey.
Monarchs will always help out other monarchs in case they are in trouble in the future. The Royals club is more important than your countries.
By the time of WWI the actual Ottoman monarchy had largely lost control of the empire, which was run by the three pashas after the 1913 coup - Talaat, Enver and Djemal. The sultan was reduced to a figure-head, and either way Britain's beef was with the Ottoman Empire as a political entity, not so much with the individual monarch.
After the Ottoman Empire had lost WWI, been reduced to its Turkish heartland and embroiled in internal struggles and war against Turkey, what harm was there for Britain to grant asylum to the powerless, disgraced former Ottoman monarch?
Last sultan and some other people in charge were British mandate supporters, they were against the independence movement and wanted the country to be a british colony, they were traitors basically. The real enemy of the British was Ataturk who was a Turkish nationalist and was deeply against any type of colonialism in the country.
They were not their enemy. They were their collaborators. Fucking traitors.
Brits used him to try and suppress the Turkish nationalist resistance who did not recognize the treaty imposed by Britain (and signed by the Sultan).
They would also use him to assert control over Indian Muslims during the Indian independence movement, if they were able to keep him recognized as the Caliph.
Things didn’t go as planned.
They also got prince Andrew out of Greece around this time. Hedging their bets 😉