They only wiped out an Armenian community so of course nobody cares. Same with China and the Uyghurs.
Last month the UAE-backed RSF captured El Fasher and murdered at least 10% of the population of 250K. You can literally see pools of blood on satelite imagery (google it). What is EU's response? Trade deal with UAE has accelerated.
It's such a hypocrisy no one in the world believes they're concerned about Gaza for purely altruistic reasons.
Despite all of the bad shit going on in the world already, one would wish this stuff was reported too, and reported with the same urgency and frequency as Israël-Palestine is
I don't mean this personally to you, but "should be reported with the same urgency" is just not a good enough reply, if 5 sec later you're going to continue not giving a shit and continuing to cry about the Jews.
I’d be all for kicking Azerbaijan out, but if I had to guess I’d say because that event is no longer occurring and was less newsworthy due to displacing 100,000 people killing 300 (Wiki data), rather 1,500,000 killing 65,000. Nobody likes war, but some wars are worse than others.
Besides, Azerbaijan would certainly make that argument in reverse.
Sometimes, it's possible to decide you want your children to live in peace more than you want to avenge the dead. I'm not saying "right" or "wrong". But it certainly helps they had anywhere to go.
These people don't actually care about Azerbaijan or Sudan or Yemen or anything else really. To them these conflicts are just mere tools that can be used to deflect criticism of Israel. It's really offensive to the intelligence of any person with 2 brain cells.
Yeah its nasty how they bring up other conflicts and attrocities that get less attention but the message theyre pushing is 'so you shoulndt care about this one either'...
To me the funniest thing is when criticism of Israel's genocide in Gaza is referred to as "antisemitism", as if people around the world really love genocide, but are only pretending to hate it in this case because they want an excuse to express their irrational hate against Israel.
“Why is everyone focusing on Israel and Palestine?!” scream the Zionists who made it literally everyone’s business after October 7.
Point out to me where western politicians demanded support for Azerbaijan, all the Azerbaijani-backed influencers spreading propaganda on social media and discounting their ethnic cleansing and all the money sent by the west to Azerbaijan for the express purpose of continuing that ethnic cleansing
Nah, it’s more like – as shitty as Azerbaijan is – it didn’t kill 80 000 people including 18 500 children
The 100 000 people who lived in Northern Karabakh in 2023 are still alive today and live in Armenia while Gaza is an open-air prison on the verge of famine.
Ban Azerbaijan too if you want to, but comparing its actions with Israel’s would be the fallacy of false equivalence.
I didn't know that removing 100k people from their home by starving them was acceptable because the scale was so small. Silly me, I thought any attempt at such a thing was unacceptable.
War* it's commiting an ongoing war
Death is what happens when you attack your technologically superior neighbors
I hope you never have to experience war if you think a relatively tame urban war is genocide
Should they accept to get colonized farther everyday while smiling? Israel gaining territories doesn't stop during "peaceful times". And they never give back what they colonized during conflicts. They have no way to win, and it's perfectly logical, human always go to extrem violence when pushed by despair.
Azerbaijan and Israel are friends. Both fascist governments doing ethnic cleansing. Israel is what Azerbaijan would be if they had the ability to completely wipe Armenia out.
I don't have much of an opinion on these countries withdrawing, they are making a political statement, which I think is fine.
However, I do find the constant comparison to Russia a little odd though. Russia launched a war to conquer a country in Europe, a country that currently participates in the competition. Like, I'm not sure what anyone would have expected to happen here. People act like the decision to bar them was based on some holy objective principle about human rights and the use of violence.
Spain, Portugal and Greece were all part of Eurovision while they were dictatorships. Spain, under Franco was jailing, torturing, and executing political opponents while they were participating. When Portugal performed at Eurovision, it was fighting multiple colonial wars, operating a censorship apparatus, and holding political prisoners in Tarrafal prison. Greece first entered Eurovision in the last year of the junta, not sure that the EBU predicted the fall of the regime.
*Edit: I removed the last sentence about the Yugoslav Wars as it wasn't formulated in a clear way, and it distracted from my main point.
Did you seriously try to make Serbia a victim in the war during the 90s?
Who did Serbia ethnicity cleans from the occupied areas in the beginning of the 90s? You always somehow forget that part.
What the fuck are you talking about? They were talking about when countries entered Eurovision. They made no comments about what Serbia did in the war or why.
Moreover, russia conducted severL wars during their participation time slaughtering tens of thousand of civilians in Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and Syria.
It's almost as if progress is fluid and it's important to not base our current moral framing on historical examples to justify allowing a country currently committing a genocide to compete in Eurovision in order to create a new standard.
That's a fair point, hadn't thought about it that way before. Of course there would be conflict in a song contest with politics when 2 warring nations are participating
Israel launched a war to ethnic cleanse a neighboring country, starving the population and bombing hospitals. It's not just that it's torturing and jailing. It killed by the most conservative 70,000 people.
Yeh Israel just randomly woke up one day and decided today we ethnically cleanse these people, as if October 7th never happened, as if there isnt a 20 year history of a terrorist organization that vows to destroy Israel shooting rockets into cities. Pathetic misinformation
That is why the Middle East is not a cauldron of hatred and sectarianism among groups who believe themselves to be vastly superior to others, and why the Arab states could accept so easily that they would not get 100% of the land (that they received and would not have been able to conquer themselves), but only 98% against a Jewish minority among them that in some cases made up 30% of the population before the fall of the Osmanian empire:
But it’s also because Israel is using the contest for political purposes, they rigged past years public votings, everything around Israel it’s obscene.
Then, about Russia they gave a shit when attacked Georgia, another contestant in Eurovision, in 2009, or Ukraine and Crimea in 2014. The issue is Russia is threatening all Europe since 2022.
Then we have Germany and Austria, they love genocides, why wouldn’t they support this one. And now here we are….
I don’t want these jihadists organizations to exist. But they exist due to decades of foreign invasions and occupations in the region. Every single one of them were borne out of these exact conditions. When your entire life is under the boot of invasion and occupation, you’ll join anything to fight back, including religious radicals. Not a hard concept to understand.
Is there a difference between occupation? West Bank is, under international law, illegally occupied by Israel and is seeing a de facto annexation with Israeli illegal settlements in WB as well as military support and confiscation of rightfully owned land from Palestinians
I can accept the inclusion of non-European countries that share European values. But Israel does not share European values and is not European. They should not be part of this.
It’s a song contest of Eurovision which is a television network owned by European broadcasting union. EBU is a union of public broadcasting organizations and includes a lot of members not in Europe.
We got here because the EBU (the people that make Eurovision) is based on the European Broadcasting Area not geographical Europe. The EBA includes all Mediterranean countries and most of Europe. Why? Telegraph lines. The EBU is a collection of publicly funded independentently operated broadcasters in the EBA.
Israel is on the Mediterranean—> in the EBA
Kan is publicly funded and independently operated—> full member of the EBU
TLDR: confusing naming but the European broadcasting area is not actually Europe so Israel is in it.
North African countries all have broadcasters that are full members of the EBU, they can join Eurovision at any point in time. Australia had a large fanbase and was invited it has a broadcaster that is an associated member, it is perpetually invited back but that could stop a lot easier than keeping a full member from participating.
Israel has an obscene level of top down support. Applies to most areas and not just eurovision.
It's actually remarkable how broadly the public is appalled by their actions that it's managed to start creating some cracks in areas of entertainment.
We should be honest, it's just not top down support. There is a good amount of support for Israel among the "common people" in a lot of countries as well.
No really anymore TBH. Polls have shown that public opinion is largely against Israel globally across various regions in the world. Their reputation is completely tanked when it comes to the general populace.
I'd say more bottom up than top down based on the fact that last year most of the votes Israel got was from the televote while the juries completely trashed them
To me the funniest thing is when criticism of Israel's genocide in Gaza is referred to as "antisemitism", as if people around the world really love genocide, but are only pretending to hate it in this case because they want an excuse to express their irrational hate against Israel.
The first Eurovision contest was held in Switzerland. The EBU headquarters are in Switzerland. Jordan, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco … are all members. People forget Eurovision has nothing to do with EU.
War crimes aside.....Israel has has history of ruining the Eurovision for the other members.
Last year the organisers were forced to change the voting rules after Israel ranked suspiciously high in the public vote and have been accused of vote interference. An example of this is Israel ranking second in Irelands public voting yet Israel routinely accuses Ireland of being an antisemitic country.
The competition also no longer televises the crowd noise from the Eurovision. Instead it pumps through fake sterile noise. The reason for this is Israel complained about booing so now we cant hear any real reactions to any acts.
Those recent events would suggest that Israel does not participate in the spirit of friendship and is almost just there to spite the other countries.
Now if you think thats bad wait till I tell you about what's happening in Gaza ....
The problem isn't the inclusion of non-europeans countries. Australia isn't causing problems. The problem is the double standard of the event being non-political when it comes to one country's expansionist brutalities and at the same time political when it comes to another country's expansionist brutalities.
Which demonstrates that the showrunners are corrupt and not deserving the public funding they receive from the participating countries.
I had understanding of this reason the first year of the war, but 2026 will be the third Israeli participation during the war. Surely a brand like Eurovision could have found other sponsors in all that time.
Of course you can be against multiple bad things at the same time.
The issue is selective outrage. If someone obsessively singles out one country while ignoring similar or worse actions elsewhere, it raises questions about whether they’re interested in fairness or just targeting a specific actor.
Imagine police claiming they’re "fighting crime," but only stopping Black people for checks while waving white people through. Even if crime is a real problem, that kind of selective enforcement would obviously be unjust (and even racist).
Israel makes a concerted effort to have their genocidal campaign be front and centre of the world stage where they get support for it, but where popular opinion is against them it's suddenly "Why is everyone paying attention to what we're doing uwu"
I have been told this so many times. "Haha, Chickens for KFC" I've had people tell me. Friends of mine have told me they don't get my "support" to my face.
I don't want people to die.
I didn't want conservatives to die from Covid. I don't want my Turkish neighbors to die every time I hear about "Greece winning a hypothetical war". And I don't want Palestinians to die. I don't care what they think about me.
And the thing about a Genocide, that also kills the gay Palestinians. My people that are oppressed by their own families, their own communities, because they were born in an unlucky place.
As a gay man it’s astonishing how dehumanising people are with Palestinians ( or just with Muslims really ). I don’t care if they want to kill me or not, their children are literally starving in rubble, this is the issue.
People saying « Chicken for KFC » are acting just like immature 14-year-olds. I may smile at some obituaries, but I will never wish death on anyone. Because I learned a basic lesson called empathy.
Rightists saying that they’re protecting me by actively hating all Muslims need to grow up.
Plus, if there is eventually peace and they have the mental capacity again to think about other things like "where's my next meal gonna come from?", do you think they'll reassess their values positively if we're just telling them "fuck you, get genocided"?
Sure, we shouldn't have to be the bigger person when people want us dead, but ultimately my values say that being anti-genocide still applies.
I'm also against genocide, that's why I am against a state that elected a government that said "Our main goal is to genocide our neighbours."
I understand that for Israel, when the 7th of October happened, they said to themselves "Why didn't we believe them then?"
I'm also against innocent palestinians demise, but when will they take responsibility to overthrow hamas? As long as they are in power, and I see that they have more support than PA, I kind of feel like being pro-palestinian does kind of mean "pro-genocide of jews".
I'd for example love for Egypt to take control of Gaza, and jordan to take control over the westbank, like they had before 1967 when these nations tried to... genocide Israel but failed awfully, thus lost control.
Reminder that the Palestinian Authority, who is the official goverment of Palestine (no matter how much Hamas pretends to be in control) is one of the very few Arab countries where homosexuality is legal
Of course hamas disagrees, but it's not hamas what other nations recognize when they say they recognize the state of Palestine, quite the opposite
There is no such thing as the official government of Palestine because Palestine is not a united nation and does not control almost any of the land it claims. The Palestinian Authority controls part of the West Bank. Hamas was democratically voted in as the official government of Gaza and is the closest thing to the official government there.
I don't get why Israel participating is so important that the EBU is willing to burn the entire contest to the ground over it. This issue could have been solved on the spot in early 2024 by throwing Israel out, and cementing the integrity of the contest. 2024 would not have been the shitshow it was, and 2025 would not have seen Israel almost taking home the trophy by coordinating the votes all over Europe.
Instead they insist on dying on the hill that is Israel being in the contest by all means, and they don't care that more and more countries will pull out, increasing the odds of Israel actually winning in 2026.
What is the logic being it? What do they owe Israel? Or maybe it's more relevant to ask, what leverage does Israel have over the EBU?
The whole event gets mainly financed by the national broadcasters of member countries and the country/city where the contest takes place. Both Germany and this year Austria have a lot of power in this construct and they both have governments publicly clearly taking position for Israel. This is the main reason why.
No. The drip feed of protest can actually illicit geopolitical change.
Did you know that the ending of apartheid in South Africa can be linked back to similar movements like the Irish rugby team refusing to play against South Africa and a the workers of a grocery store in Dublin going on strike and refusing to handle South African goods?
Small acts of protest like Nemo is doing is keeping the spotlight on what's happening in gaza and adds to international pressure.
Let's not act like the apartheid regime fell because they couldn't play a rugby match.The regime fell due to mainly internal pressure, but also the fact they did not have any allies in the region (Rhodesia or the Portuguese Empire), and their defeat in Angola made them realise they could not win. After the Cold war they couldn't use the excuse of "fighting against communism" no more, so they lost the legitimacy and help from the West .
2 years later?? I mean, edit my bad I forgot they identify as non binary thanks for correcting me, they didn't even give it back last year when there was not even a ceasefire. Hey, they didnt even refused to perform, seems to me they want to become relevant again, doesn't look genuine.
He returned it now because the EBU just announced that Israel would participate. The vote wasn't held any earlier, up until last week there was a possibility that he wouldn't have had a reason to return it.
Why dismiss a good thing like that? They didn't make a stand at the right time (according to you), so they shouldn't make a stand at all? How is that helpful in any way? Who cares if someone's intentions aren't 100% pure if they help get a good thing done.
Or it's because there was discussion of removing Israel and eurovision denied to even have a vote, which caused multiple other countries to also pull out in protest recently?
Dont forget, he was on stage last year as well and said nothing. So the first year that he officially has no stage or camera pointed at him, is the time he speaks up. But now people are flipping it to be "He is protesting because eurovision did not even give them a vote to kick Israel out". As if the voting is more important than what the country is actually doing lol
life expectancy in the Gaza Strip decreased by 34·9 years during the first 12 months of the war, about half (–46·3%) the prewar level of 75·5 years. Life expectancy losses were larger for males (–38·0 years [–51·6%]) than for females, but nonetheless, females also suffered large losses (–29·9 years [–38·6%]). Losses between the low and high variants ranged between –31·1 years (–41·1%) and –39·4 years (–52·2%) for both sexes combined.
Ebu:
They will do whatever we want. Keep israel in.
Reality kicks in:
Ebu completely quiet when the fire is burning and getting worse.
If this was any other activity they would be firing people non stop trying to please the majority, new ceo new everything, since it is related to money i guess the ebu will have an interesting show nobody will watch.
Hope they are happy.
This is moreso a reaction to the EBU’s disastrous handling of the situation regarding Israel’s participation in the contest at the recent general assembly
Yes. Making the vote on Israel conditional on rejecting a ton of objectively good role changes and voting reforms, was the most transparent and bureaucratic thing I’ve seen in a while. Bad enough for five countries withdraw and two winners to return their trophies, clearly.
At this point, I am very cynical. I simply don’t believe they are doing this for the betterment and welfare of the civilians in Palestine. Boycotting Israel has become a performative moral outrage.
By the very logic, they should kick Azerbaijan out for expelling people out of Nagorno Karabakh. But again, only the crisis in Palestine is “trendy”.
Everyone of us has to play our part. Send an email to the head of your national broadcaster asking them to withdraw. Just one little email and you'll have done your part for the day.
No one is saying it has to change your countries attendance at the Eurovision. This is about letting decision makers know what you think about your national broadcaster sending someone to represent you at a big party that Israel is invited to.
So Croatia is now the winner?
Always has been
If only it happened in the WC 2018 :(
They won WC 2018 in everyone’s hearts
What was their song again?
Rim Tim Tagi Dim.
Oh, that song was so good!
Looks like Eurovision is slowly imploding over the inclusion of a non-EU country
How did we get here
They banned russia but allow israel is what it boils down to.
They also allowed Azerbaijan, and the people that are pushing to exclude Israel, didn't care about a pretty complete ethnic cleansing they did...
One wonders why...
Because its not in the news.
I cant even tell you the last time the name Azerbaijan was even spoken out from anyone.
Nobody cares.
F1 fans in september
Honestly they can scrap it as far as I'm concerned, not really an interesting circuit if nobody bins it
Well done Baku
Didnt the orange menace recently claim to have stopped a war between Azerbaijan and Albania?
The Orange man says wierd stuff 24/7. Keeping up is simply impossible.
I heard he stopped a Portugese naval invasion of Austria. Very talented man
How would that even work? Single file naval invasion up the Danube? 😆
That was Aberbaijan, a completely different country, but I understand the confusion.
Nagorno Karabah was in the News people judt ignored, no rating when no jews involved
And our governments and media aren’t actively supporting it. That is why. And the questioner knows that.
Your government is not buying gas from them?
Europe is buying a lot from Azerbaijan. And nobody cares.
They only wiped out an Armenian community so of course nobody cares. Same with China and the Uyghurs.
Last month the UAE-backed RSF captured El Fasher and murdered at least 10% of the population of 250K. You can literally see pools of blood on satelite imagery (google it). What is EU's response? Trade deal with UAE has accelerated.
It's such a hypocrisy no one in the world believes they're concerned about Gaza for purely altruistic reasons.
Despite all of the bad shit going on in the world already, one would wish this stuff was reported too, and reported with the same urgency and frequency as Israël-Palestine is
I don't mean this personally to you, but "should be reported with the same urgency" is just not a good enough reply, if 5 sec later you're going to continue not giving a shit and continuing to cry about the Jews.
I’d be all for kicking Azerbaijan out, but if I had to guess I’d say because that event is no longer occurring and was less newsworthy due to displacing 100,000 people killing 300 (Wiki data), rather 1,500,000 killing 65,000. Nobody likes war, but some wars are worse than others.
Besides, Azerbaijan would certainly make that argument in reverse.
Also Armenia are in the contest and aren’t calling for Azerbaijans exclusion …
That is interesting
How does that work then
Armenia has decided peace is preferable to generations of pointless war against a much stronger foe.
Sometimes, it's possible to decide you want your children to live in peace more than you want to avenge the dead. I'm not saying "right" or "wrong". But it certainly helps they had anywhere to go.
These people don't actually care about Azerbaijan or Sudan or Yemen or anything else really. To them these conflicts are just mere tools that can be used to deflect criticism of Israel. It's really offensive to the intelligence of any person with 2 brain cells.
Yeah its nasty how they bring up other conflicts and attrocities that get less attention but the message theyre pushing is 'so you shoulndt care about this one either'...
To me the funniest thing is when criticism of Israel's genocide in Gaza is referred to as "antisemitism", as if people around the world really love genocide, but are only pretending to hate it in this case because they want an excuse to express their irrational hate against Israel.
“Why is everyone focusing on Israel and Palestine?!” scream the Zionists who made it literally everyone’s business after October 7.
Point out to me where western politicians demanded support for Azerbaijan, all the Azerbaijani-backed influencers spreading propaganda on social media and discounting their ethnic cleansing and all the money sent by the west to Azerbaijan for the express purpose of continuing that ethnic cleansing
Silly whataboutism. You can't even compare the two
Right, because Azerbaijan was successful in their efforts to both conquer and ethnically cleanse lands.
Nah, it’s more like – as shitty as Azerbaijan is – it didn’t kill 80 000 people including 18 500 children
The 100 000 people who lived in Northern Karabakh in 2023 are still alive today and live in Armenia while Gaza is an open-air prison on the verge of famine.
Ban Azerbaijan too if you want to, but comparing its actions with Israel’s would be the fallacy of false equivalence.
I didn't know that removing 100k people from their home by starving them was acceptable because the scale was so small. Silly me, I thought any attempt at such a thing was unacceptable.
Almost like Israel is commiting an ONGOING genocide
They aren't. I'm sorry Hamas is using their own population as illegal combatants and human shields.
War* it's commiting an ongoing war Death is what happens when you attack your technologically superior neighbors I hope you never have to experience war if you think a relatively tame urban war is genocide
Should they accept to get colonized farther everyday while smiling? Israel gaining territories doesn't stop during "peaceful times". And they never give back what they colonized during conflicts. They have no way to win, and it's perfectly logical, human always go to extrem violence when pushed by despair.
My government doesn't send weapons systems to Azerbaijan. Fuck outta here with that bullshit. You know the difference.
Your country doesn't send weapons directly to Azerbeijan.
They send them true Turkey.
The same way I don't buy Cola directly from Coka Cola but from my local supermarket.
What does that have to do with eurovision participation..?
Is there direct western involvement in Azer crimes? Also why do i feel you dont actually give a shit about victims of any repressive regime lmfao
Azerbaijan and Israel are friends. Both fascist governments doing ethnic cleansing. Israel is what Azerbaijan would be if they had the ability to completely wipe Armenia out.
I don't have much of an opinion on these countries withdrawing, they are making a political statement, which I think is fine.
However, I do find the constant comparison to Russia a little odd though. Russia launched a war to conquer a country in Europe, a country that currently participates in the competition. Like, I'm not sure what anyone would have expected to happen here. People act like the decision to bar them was based on some holy objective principle about human rights and the use of violence.
Spain, Portugal and Greece were all part of Eurovision while they were dictatorships. Spain, under Franco was jailing, torturing, and executing political opponents while they were participating. When Portugal performed at Eurovision, it was fighting multiple colonial wars, operating a censorship apparatus, and holding political prisoners in Tarrafal prison. Greece first entered Eurovision in the last year of the junta, not sure that the EBU predicted the fall of the regime.
*Edit: I removed the last sentence about the Yugoslav Wars as it wasn't formulated in a clear way, and it distracted from my main point.
No fucking way you included Bosnia in that list
Did you seriously try to make Serbia a victim in the war during the 90s? Who did Serbia ethnicity cleans from the occupied areas in the beginning of the 90s? You always somehow forget that part.
What the fuck are you talking about? They were talking about when countries entered Eurovision. They made no comments about what Serbia did in the war or why.
Because he edited the comment
The person you're responding to says this exact thing often, does he?
Moreover, russia conducted severL wars during their participation time slaughtering tens of thousand of civilians in Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine and Syria.
Pretty much every EU country participated in the "war on terror".
It's almost as if progress is fluid and it's important to not base our current moral framing on historical examples to justify allowing a country currently committing a genocide to compete in Eurovision in order to create a new standard.
What standard exactly?
It's progress, right ? We don't accept the same things as we did decades or centuries ago.
I'm not sure of the dates of your examples but it's almost 2026 now and things change. For the better in the topic we're discussing.
That's a fair point, hadn't thought about it that way before. Of course there would be conflict in a song contest with politics when 2 warring nations are participating
Israel launched a war to ethnic cleanse a neighboring country, starving the population and bombing hospitals. It's not just that it's torturing and jailing. It killed by the most conservative 70,000 people.
Yeh Israel just randomly woke up one day and decided today we ethnically cleanse these people, as if October 7th never happened, as if there isnt a 20 year history of a terrorist organization that vows to destroy Israel shooting rockets into cities. Pathetic misinformation
Mostly hundreds of years of religious extremism that people don't want to acknowledge.
That is why the Middle East is not a cauldron of hatred and sectarianism among groups who believe themselves to be vastly superior to others, and why the Arab states could accept so easily that they would not get 100% of the land (that they received and would not have been able to conquer themselves), but only 98% against a Jewish minority among them that in some cases made up 30% of the population before the fall of the Osmanian empire:
Baghdad: 20-30% Basra: 10-15 Aleppo: 5-10 Istanbul: 5-8 Saloniki: 45-55 Damaskus:5-8
Nonono, it is absolutely not about wanting a muslim or arabian hegemony. Such thoughts are reserved for evil 'western colonial forces'.
But it’s also because Israel is using the contest for political purposes, they rigged past years public votings, everything around Israel it’s obscene. Then, about Russia they gave a shit when attacked Georgia, another contestant in Eurovision, in 2009, or Ukraine and Crimea in 2014. The issue is Russia is threatening all Europe since 2022. Then we have Germany and Austria, they love genocides, why wouldn’t they support this one. And now here we are….
Who isn't using Eurovision for politics? Especially now you can make a vague statement by withdrawing
How did they rig last year?
The russian invasion is a pretty black and white conflict. As much as reddit wants it to be, the palestinian conflict is anything but black and white
It has been pretty black and white for a while now...
You might as well say The Russian invasion is morally complex because the Ukrainians shoot back...
Do you think that the worst thing Hamas has done is "shoot back"?
Do you think genocide is ever a proportional response?
Yes, they would not exist if Israel ceased its decades of occupation and blockades of Palestinian land and people.
killing a 1000 civilians and commiting sexualized violence is just "shooting back" now? lmao
Israel did literally worse and destroyed Gaza. And it doesn't want to recognize Palestine. You left that part out.
Yeah bombing 60000 people to death and starving a million people is a very apt response
The Middle East - home of jihadist organizations that slaughter their own people but get excused by western leftists as ‘resistance’.
I don’t want these jihadists organizations to exist. But they exist due to decades of foreign invasions and occupations in the region. Every single one of them were borne out of these exact conditions. When your entire life is under the boot of invasion and occupation, you’ll join anything to fight back, including religious radicals. Not a hard concept to understand.
Russia invaded another competitor, much more straightforward, as much as I think Israel should be booted out I can see the difference.
Is there a difference between occupation? West Bank is, under international law, illegally occupied by Israel and is seeing a de facto annexation with Israeli illegal settlements in WB as well as military support and confiscation of rightfully owned land from Palestinians
Eurovision has never been about the European Union.
Europe, then.
I can accept the inclusion of non-European countries that share European values. But Israel does not share European values and is not European. They should not be part of this.
Does Europe share the same values as Azerbaijan and Morocco?
It’s a song contest of Eurovision which is a television network owned by European broadcasting union. EBU is a union of public broadcasting organizations and includes a lot of members not in Europe.
We got here because the EBU (the people that make Eurovision) is based on the European Broadcasting Area not geographical Europe. The EBA includes all Mediterranean countries and most of Europe. Why? Telegraph lines. The EBU is a collection of publicly funded independentently operated broadcasters in the EBA.
Israel is on the Mediterranean—> in the EBA Kan is publicly funded and independently operated—> full member of the EBU
TLDR: confusing naming but the European broadcasting area is not actually Europe so Israel is in it.
That would make sense if African countries were included and Australia wasn't.
North African countries all have broadcasters that are full members of the EBU, they can join Eurovision at any point in time. Australia had a large fanbase and was invited it has a broadcaster that is an associated member, it is perpetually invited back but that could stop a lot easier than keeping a full member from participating.
Otherwise we'd just sneak in pretending to be Austria!
There are African countries in the EBU that are eligible to participate in eurovision
Switzerland is non-EU as well
Israel has an obscene level of top down support. Applies to most areas and not just eurovision.
It's actually remarkable how broadly the public is appalled by their actions that it's managed to start creating some cracks in areas of entertainment.
True tbh, the government level support is insane
We should be honest, it's just not top down support. There is a good amount of support for Israel among the "common people" in a lot of countries as well.
No really anymore TBH. Polls have shown that public opinion is largely against Israel globally across various regions in the world. Their reputation is completely tanked when it comes to the general populace.
I personally don't support Israel, but I like hamas even less.
Agreed ! But Hamas is not whitewashing its reputation by participating in Eurovision.
I plan to protest against their inclusion in Eurovision the moment it comes up.
These "common people" are mostly driven by group thinking behaviour: evangelic christians, right wing muslim haters, etc.
And they say pro-palestinian sentiments is driven by leftist, muslim and antisemetic behaviour. And round and round we go..
I'd say more bottom up than top down based on the fact that last year most of the votes Israel got was from the televote while the juries completely trashed them
Hate against the Bibi regime is not hate of Israel (but somehow Israel manages to spin it that way...). Espacially in Germany and Austria.
But expect the Phone Vote to be rigged and the next being won by Israel...
Not even hate, if you disagree with their opinion its already a hate crime.
To me the funniest thing is when criticism of Israel's genocide in Gaza is referred to as "antisemitism", as if people around the world really love genocide, but are only pretending to hate it in this case because they want an excuse to express their irrational hate against Israel.
well bibi is basically the erdogan from israel and pre bibi israel or pre erodgan turkey were not great places either lol
Well a non-EU country won last year.
The first Eurovision contest was held in Switzerland. The EBU headquarters are in Switzerland. Jordan, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco … are all members. People forget Eurovision has nothing to do with EU.
War crimes aside.....Israel has has history of ruining the Eurovision for the other members.
Last year the organisers were forced to change the voting rules after Israel ranked suspiciously high in the public vote and have been accused of vote interference. An example of this is Israel ranking second in Irelands public voting yet Israel routinely accuses Ireland of being an antisemitic country.
The competition also no longer televises the crowd noise from the Eurovision. Instead it pumps through fake sterile noise. The reason for this is Israel complained about booing so now we cant hear any real reactions to any acts.
Those recent events would suggest that Israel does not participate in the spirit of friendship and is almost just there to spite the other countries.
Now if you think thats bad wait till I tell you about what's happening in Gaza ....
Moroccan Oil - an Israeli company
Europe ≠ EU.
The problem isn't the inclusion of non-europeans countries. Australia isn't causing problems. The problem is the double standard of the event being non-political when it comes to one country's expansionist brutalities and at the same time political when it comes to another country's expansionist brutalities.
Which demonstrates that the showrunners are corrupt and not deserving the public funding they receive from the participating countries.
The Eurovision is slowly imploding over politics. Something the contest was supposed to transcend. The writing was on the wall for years
I’d say it’s more because of the genocide and less about them not being in Europe…
Non-european. EU is irrelevant in this matter
Well, Maroccanoil is a major sponsor of Eurovision and it is an Israeli company. No wonder Eurovision allows Israel to participate.
I'm pretty sure Europe is capable of hosting a song competition without the help of Israel
Well, UEFA Euro 2024 had the Chinese BYD as a main sponsor...
You miss the point. It could have been a European company as well. A chinese company is not necessary for the EC to he hosted
Yes and yet China hasn't attempted to shove its team into the UEFA
Yea I’m sure it’d be impossible for them to find a replacement
I had understanding of this reason the first year of the war, but 2026 will be the third Israeli participation during the war. Surely a brand like Eurovision could have found other sponsors in all that time.
Israelis are on their way to comment "you know what they do to gays in Palestine? They would kill you".
They’re already asking us to look at Azerbaijan. You can’t be against a bad thing if there’s another bad thing, after all.
EDIT: forgot a ‘be’.
Which is rich considering Israel is one of the top arms suppliers to Azerbaijan for over a decade.
That's how they know what's up
Of course you can be against multiple bad things at the same time.
The issue is selective outrage. If someone obsessively singles out one country while ignoring similar or worse actions elsewhere, it raises questions about whether they’re interested in fairness or just targeting a specific actor.
Imagine police claiming they’re "fighting crime," but only stopping Black people for checks while waving white people through. Even if crime is a real problem, that kind of selective enforcement would obviously be unjust (and even racist).
Israel makes a concerted effort to have their genocidal campaign be front and centre of the world stage where they get support for it, but where popular opinion is against them it's suddenly "Why is everyone paying attention to what we're doing uwu"
I have been told this so many times. "Haha, Chickens for KFC" I've had people tell me. Friends of mine have told me they don't get my "support" to my face.
I don't want people to die.
I didn't want conservatives to die from Covid. I don't want my Turkish neighbors to die every time I hear about "Greece winning a hypothetical war". And I don't want Palestinians to die. I don't care what they think about me.
And the thing about a Genocide, that also kills the gay Palestinians. My people that are oppressed by their own families, their own communities, because they were born in an unlucky place.
Its that simple.
This sentiment about COVID wasn't shared on Reddit.
This so much
As a gay man it’s astonishing how dehumanising people are with Palestinians ( or just with Muslims really ). I don’t care if they want to kill me or not, their children are literally starving in rubble, this is the issue.
People saying « Chicken for KFC » are acting just like immature 14-year-olds. I may smile at some obituaries, but I will never wish death on anyone. Because I learned a basic lesson called empathy.
Rightists saying that they’re protecting me by actively hating all Muslims need to grow up.
Plus, if there is eventually peace and they have the mental capacity again to think about other things like "where's my next meal gonna come from?", do you think they'll reassess their values positively if we're just telling them "fuck you, get genocided"?
Sure, we shouldn't have to be the bigger person when people want us dead, but ultimately my values say that being anti-genocide still applies.
I'm also against genocide, that's why I am against a state that elected a government that said "Our main goal is to genocide our neighbours."
I understand that for Israel, when the 7th of October happened, they said to themselves "Why didn't we believe them then?"
I'm also against innocent palestinians demise, but when will they take responsibility to overthrow hamas? As long as they are in power, and I see that they have more support than PA, I kind of feel like being pro-palestinian does kind of mean "pro-genocide of jews".
I'd for example love for Egypt to take control of Gaza, and jordan to take control over the westbank, like they had before 1967 when these nations tried to... genocide Israel but failed awfully, thus lost control.
"When will they take responsibility!!" and its broken families and dead children. Nakba apologies, anyone??
Reminder that the Palestinian Authority, who is the official goverment of Palestine (no matter how much Hamas pretends to be in control) is one of the very few Arab countries where homosexuality is legal
Of course hamas disagrees, but it's not hamas what other nations recognize when they say they recognize the state of Palestine, quite the opposite
“Pretends to be in control”? They are de facto in control. PNA has virtually no say in anything…
First line of Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBTQ_rights_in_Palestine
If you can disprove that, edit the article while citing sources.
There is no such thing as the official government of Palestine because Palestine is not a united nation and does not control almost any of the land it claims. The Palestinian Authority controls part of the West Bank. Hamas was democratically voted in as the official government of Gaza and is the closest thing to the official government there.
The UN recognizes the PA to be the party under Palestine when it becomes a state.
The UN also recognized Israel as a sovereign state, which is something the Palestinians are extremely angry with.
So why wouldn't they be furious with UN, by being forced a government they don't want?
Is Palestinian authority in charge of Gaza now?
They wouldn't be wrong
already here... Remember Israel (one of the wars that Trump supposedly ended) kills 5 year olds...
Do you know how old the Bibas children, that were taken hostage, when they were strangled to death by their captors?
And genocide is wrong.
Which is, y'know, true.
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Never seen a country with so much support from global leadership yet so little support from global public.
I don't get why Israel participating is so important that the EBU is willing to burn the entire contest to the ground over it. This issue could have been solved on the spot in early 2024 by throwing Israel out, and cementing the integrity of the contest. 2024 would not have been the shitshow it was, and 2025 would not have seen Israel almost taking home the trophy by coordinating the votes all over Europe.
Instead they insist on dying on the hill that is Israel being in the contest by all means, and they don't care that more and more countries will pull out, increasing the odds of Israel actually winning in 2026.
What is the logic being it? What do they owe Israel? Or maybe it's more relevant to ask, what leverage does Israel have over the EBU?
I don't get it.
u/BusinessBadgerDE helped with explaining
Because the whole event is sponsored by an Israeli company?
The whole event gets mainly financed by the national broadcasters of member countries and the country/city where the contest takes place. Both Germany and this year Austria have a lot of power in this construct and they both have governments publicly clearly taking position for Israel. This is the main reason why.
Other sponsors can be found for the most watched music event in the world, trust me. It's probably corruption on a more personal level.
Yup, start digging into that organization and maybe there’s another fifa.
just shut down that shitshow already...
No. The drip feed of protest can actually illicit geopolitical change.
Did you know that the ending of apartheid in South Africa can be linked back to similar movements like the Irish rugby team refusing to play against South Africa and a the workers of a grocery store in Dublin going on strike and refusing to handle South African goods?
Small acts of protest like Nemo is doing is keeping the spotlight on what's happening in gaza and adds to international pressure.
Let's not act like the apartheid regime fell because they couldn't play a rugby match.The regime fell due to mainly internal pressure, but also the fact they did not have any allies in the region (Rhodesia or the Portuguese Empire), and their defeat in Angola made them realise they could not win. After the Cold war they couldn't use the excuse of "fighting against communism" no more, so they lost the legitimacy and help from the West .
Exactly
Some people at least still have some backbone. Lots of respect ror them!
I bet after all this Isreal’s song will be shit anyway.
Always some rubbish ballad thing with the audience muted during it
It will come in 2nd and won't even be in the top 10 most played on Spotify in the entire year, just like this year.
Is a Eurovision song ever in the top 10 most played on Spotify?
Europapa was in the top 10 for like a month
They mean the top 10 most played songs from the contest on Spotify
Yup.
Aggressively boring and forgettable songs that have no place in the top ten let alone almost winning last year.
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It rhymes, and if you can just get a catchy tune you could be Poland's entry
BEYBA
what?
Incredibly based
2 years later?? I mean, edit my bad I forgot they identify as non binary thanks for correcting me, they didn't even give it back last year when there was not even a ceasefire. Hey, they didnt even refused to perform, seems to me they want to become relevant again, doesn't look genuine.
He returned it now because the EBU just announced that Israel would participate. The vote wasn't held any earlier, up until last week there was a possibility that he wouldn't have had a reason to return it.
Why dismiss a good thing like that? They didn't make a stand at the right time (according to you), so they shouldn't make a stand at all? How is that helpful in any way? Who cares if someone's intentions aren't 100% pure if they help get a good thing done.
Also *they, not he
Or it's because there was discussion of removing Israel and eurovision denied to even have a vote, which caused multiple other countries to also pull out in protest recently?
Dont forget, he was on stage last year as well and said nothing. So the first year that he officially has no stage or camera pointed at him, is the time he speaks up. But now people are flipping it to be "He is protesting because eurovision did not even give them a vote to kick Israel out". As if the voting is more important than what the country is actually doing lol
they*
Respect 🫡
Israel has the most unsuccessful genocide ever.
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(24)02810-1/abstract
They sure keep going at it tho. Sure seem committed.
Ebu: They will do whatever we want. Keep israel in. Reality kicks in: Ebu completely quiet when the fire is burning and getting worse.
If this was any other activity they would be firing people non stop trying to please the majority, new ceo new everything, since it is related to money i guess the ebu will have an interesting show nobody will watch. Hope they are happy.
I think all eurovision winners should give their trophies back
Bro... What trophy? Is he gonna give back the glass shards or what?
Nemo got a new one after it broke
I guess he's returning a copy lol
they*
Been
followingaware about Eurovision many years now, and this is the first year it’s actually interesting.Based
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This is moreso a reaction to the EBU’s disastrous handling of the situation regarding Israel’s participation in the contest at the recent general assembly
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Yes. Making the vote on Israel conditional on rejecting a ton of objectively good role changes and voting reforms, was the most transparent and bureaucratic thing I’ve seen in a while. Bad enough for five countries withdraw and two winners to return their trophies, clearly.
Stunning and brave
At this point, I am very cynical. I simply don’t believe they are doing this for the betterment and welfare of the civilians in Palestine. Boycotting Israel has become a performative moral outrage.
By the very logic, they should kick Azerbaijan out for expelling people out of Nagorno Karabakh. But again, only the crisis in Palestine is “trendy”.
Common Swiss W. Fuck Israel
MONARCH
No issues with Azerbaijan being in Eurovision though — after ethnically cleansing 100,000 Armenians.
Everyone of us has to play our part. Send an email to the head of your national broadcaster asking them to withdraw. Just one little email and you'll have done your part for the day.
No one is saying it has to change your countries attendance at the Eurovision. This is about letting decision makers know what you think about your national broadcaster sending someone to represent you at a big party that Israel is invited to.
Y'all need to understand that Israhell is the main sponsor of the ESC via Moroccanoil. They will never ban themselves.
Moroccanoil - Wikipedia
All the other countries simply need to stop attending to that shitshow of Bibi and his crazy friends.
I don’t care. About any of it.