The post is hard. Some replies are about dismantling their funders and Swiss surveillance bills. They reject foreign binding orders, and challenge them when possible. What are the things that undermine their privacy claims?
Just keep in mind they are a corporation, and money tends to win out. They are in a good position, and seem to be holding strong. Just don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Proton's entire business model and user base is being as private as a company can legally be, if they did swing to the other side that could be the end of them.
So they at least have a real incentive to not screw over their customers, but we'll see, their shift towards an ecosystem to compete with google and ms is worrying in that regard
Because nothing is stopping them from doing the same thing with our data that other corps do if someone with enough pull in the company decides they can make more money doing it the Google or Ms way than by offering privacy.
They didn't say it's a bad thing to offer those services. Just that it worried them.
I think the issue that a lot of people see is that they are diverting away resources from the core products that people chose proton for in order to keep launching new products while being behind on a lot of their roadmaps. Some people see this as going down the path of larger customer base instead of product quality.
Hard to see how that would work, Google Workspace and Microsoft 365 are significantly more polished and mature products, and Proton is never catching up on ecosystem, functionality, support, reliability, or really most other meaningful indicators.
The privacy aspect is literally the only reason people put up with the significantly less polished product Proton offers.
It does though, they have to make decisions which are best for the goal of the non profit. Of they don’t they can still be held liable personally even though it is a corporation.
I don't understand the stance "they are a corporation". Not everything can be managed by a public crowd funded non-profit.
Most 100% open source projects remain obscure because of a lack of resources and recognition outside IT.
Watch out. These thugs are no joke. If you get into waters deep enough, you’ll be surrounded in no time and forced to watched their synchronized swimming show until Death has the kindness to end your misery.
Won't affect me for now because I still use sms like a prehistoric caveman (and I know that is already compromised) and email.
But it will affect me if this is only the first step and somebody says "let's not just scan messenger stuff but the whole device, and not just phones but also computers. And offline computers will be illegal"
I don't trust companies that sell out protestors. If they even have the ability to do so, not worth considering a "true" privacy option, just a "better" privacy option.
have they ever getten raided by police like Mullvad resulting in the authorities leaving empty-handed, confirming their strict no-logging policy? don't think anyone else did.
Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If your goal is that your data isn't sold to marketers or used to train AI models against your will, then Proton does the job. If you want to blatantly do crimes worthy of an international warrant, might want to look elsewhere.
I appreciate your reply! I’m just starting out with a lot of it, and I like to sleep well at night and am a Christian man so nothing bad going on, just like to mind my own business and have privacy for family members, I believe people have a right to their data and privacy, but it’s so much information that I’m not too sure where to begin, and again thank you for your support!
I'm new to this too and I'm on old reddit on desktop so I don't know how visible it is on new reddit/other platforms, but the sidebar has some useful alternatives to Google products and might help you get started figuring out what to look for.
When Proton has been known to squeal to the cops??
I know that's more anonymity and not privacy, but how much money will it take from a government before they fold and begin collecting more than they already do to share with said government?
They comply when they are required to by warrants. But since it is end to end encrypted they don't have a whole lot they can give over.reqlistically just metadata that a message was sent to/from and when,but not the contents .
Could they not be compelled to wiretap all incoming mail to an address though? for the non-encrypted emails.
Same as outgoing, unless something is configured like how m365 handles mail encryption to unsupported mail handlers (which is pretty much anybody not using m365 email...)
If it does pass Proton say they'll move to Germany and/or Norway.
Plenty of things you can criticise Proton for (and if you don't like them there are some excellent alternatives) but this isn't one of them. People get weird about them for some reason.
Pretty freaking funny
Yeah I can’t lie, it caught me off guard but it was actually hilarious.
Yes they are.
This is the way 😁
Just keep in mind they are a corporation, and money tends to win out. They are in a good position, and seem to be holding strong. Just don't put all your eggs in one basket.
Proton's entire business model and user base is being as private as a company can legally be, if they did swing to the other side that could be the end of them. So they at least have a real incentive to not screw over their customers, but we'll see, their shift towards an ecosystem to compete with google and ms is worrying in that regard
People want what Google \ Microsoft offer. Proton is trying to build replacement. What's wrong?
Because nothing is stopping them from doing the same thing with our data that other corps do if someone with enough pull in the company decides they can make more money doing it the Google or Ms way than by offering privacy.
They didn't say it's a bad thing to offer those services. Just that it worried them.
I think the issue that a lot of people see is that they are diverting away resources from the core products that people chose proton for in order to keep launching new products while being behind on a lot of their roadmaps. Some people see this as going down the path of larger customer base instead of product quality.
Hard to see how that would work, Google Workspace and Microsoft 365 are significantly more polished and mature products, and Proton is never catching up on ecosystem, functionality, support, reliability, or really most other meaningful indicators.
The privacy aspect is literally the only reason people put up with the significantly less polished product Proton offers.
Both comments are right.
However, never rely on a company keeping their morals throughout it's life.
Google once had the phrase "don't be evil" as part of their values.
It's fine to support companies when they are doing things you think are right, but don't rely on them to always be like that.
It is a corporation with a non profit above it with it’s main goal being to provide privacy services.
That doesn't change anything I just said.
It does though, they have to make decisions which are best for the goal of the non profit. Of they don’t they can still be held liable personally even though it is a corporation.
Buddy, Sam Altman has a bridge to sell you then.
The lack of financial transparency doesn’t help, but still Switzerland has systems in place to prevent abuse and punish people when they do.
Yeah sure, so does the US, it only matters if they are enforced.
OpenAI also has a non-profit over it. Things can change over time when there's money involved
Most people have all their eggs in Google or Microsoft's basket... I'd rather the Proton Basket.
I don't understand the stance "they are a corporation". Not everything can be managed by a public crowd funded non-profit. Most 100% open source projects remain obscure because of a lack of resources and recognition outside IT.
r/speedoflobsters
Not sure why I read this as “Speedo Flobsters”, but doing so has made my day.
Dunno what they are but one's going in the next D&D game, probably some gang of thugs.
Watch out. These thugs are no joke. If you get into waters deep enough, you’ll be surrounded in no time and forced to watched their synchronized swimming show until Death has the kindness to end your misery.
Thanks, now I can only read my beloved sub as "Spee Do Flobsters"
You bet lmao. Google doesnt give a damn about your privacy
They're relatively in the right. I am not onboard with requiring a phone number to sign up from any email provider, though.
TOTP can replace text verification without inherently tying an email address to an individual and still be just as secure if not more.
what is Totp?
This is hysterical
Everybody can express themselves however they want, that is the beauty of free speech.
Which leads to tons of memes, among other stuff ...
Say hello to chat control :D
Won't affect me for now because I still use sms like a prehistoric caveman (and I know that is already compromised) and email.
But it will affect me if this is only the first step and somebody says "let's not just scan messenger stuff but the whole device, and not just phones but also computers. And offline computers will be illegal"
Then I will be very fucked ...
If I’m not mistaken I heard something about proposing chat control 3.0 in next years Sumer. Where they will want to crack down VPNs :D
average Epstein files be like:
Why wouldn't they? I don't quite get your reservations
Missed out censoring the "never" ofc
I don't trust companies that sell out protestors. If they even have the ability to do so, not worth considering a "true" privacy option, just a "better" privacy option.
yes
They are marketing hard but it still raises fair questions about their claims.
have they ever getten raided by police like Mullvad resulting in the authorities leaving empty-handed, confirming their strict no-logging policy? don't think anyone else did.
Not much. The only potential issue for some people are that they are at best pseudoanonymous.
But they're up there, and that's sufficient for majority of people.
Yes they are allowed
dont forget that proton is still a company and not above the law
Good thing its not illegal to speak or make jokes
Except on their sub 😂
Well its the truth lol
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Depends on what you are trying to accomplish. If your goal is that your data isn't sold to marketers or used to train AI models against your will, then Proton does the job. If you want to blatantly do crimes worthy of an international warrant, might want to look elsewhere.
I appreciate your reply! I’m just starting out with a lot of it, and I like to sleep well at night and am a Christian man so nothing bad going on, just like to mind my own business and have privacy for family members, I believe people have a right to their data and privacy, but it’s so much information that I’m not too sure where to begin, and again thank you for your support!
Oh buddy if you wanna pull the Christian card here do I have some news for you
I'm new to this too and I'm on old reddit on desktop so I don't know how visible it is on new reddit/other platforms, but the sidebar has some useful alternatives to Google products and might help you get started figuring out what to look for.
Damn right they are! Google is like a dog with its pink thing out when it comes to selling user data.
When Proton has been known to squeal to the cops??
I know that's more anonymity and not privacy, but how much money will it take from a government before they fold and begin collecting more than they already do to share with said government?
They comply when they are required to by warrants. But since it is end to end encrypted they don't have a whole lot they can give over.reqlistically just metadata that a message was sent to/from and when,but not the contents .
Could they not be compelled to wiretap all incoming mail to an address though? for the non-encrypted emails.
Same as outgoing, unless something is configured like how m365 handles mail encryption to unsupported mail handlers (which is pretty much anybody not using m365 email...)
release The Proton Files! Uncensored!!
didnt they support trump at a point?
Proton CEO is MAGA trash anyways, so I wouldn't use their services.
What do you use? Just curious
I never liked Proton's marketing strategy. There are much better reasons to stay away from them, but that has always been enough for me already.
Past experience I guess.
https://youtu.be/iH626CXyNtE
Everyone that thinks email is private needs to watch this, especially the first little bit...
It's a meme.
Till now yes!
No. There's a time and place for these types of jokes
Yes, whats wrong?
But I guess its a good opportunity to all the antiproton clowns to show up here to express their 'concerns'
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Data itself is encrypted but they have to share other info per Swiss law.
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This has not passed and is being reconsidered after the backlash from Swiss tech firms:
https://www.techradar.com/vpn/vpn-privacy-security/switzerland-will-revise-proposed-law-change-after-backlash-from-tech-industry
If it does pass Proton say they'll move to Germany and/or Norway.
Plenty of things you can criticise Proton for (and if you don't like them there are some excellent alternatives) but this isn't one of them. People get weird about them for some reason.