Most Smartwatches and rings are really poor as health sensors... no matter what they tout themselves as.
I've had the ring and a smartwatch, both failed to catch my TIA and heart arrythmia. There are health bands that can do that, but FWIW, they're all GDPR compliant - To my understanding, Samsung/Google bands are mostly not compliant, and Apple mostly is, but you have to opt out of the sale of your abstracted data.
If you're looking for a health tracker, I would not use product from a cellular phone manufacturer.
Privacy aside, this might've been true a few years ago, but trackers nowadays do a pretty stellar job at tracking heart rate, among other things. Of course it won't be 100% accurate, but the sensors improved a lot in the last few years.
Ironically, the sensors haven't 'improved' in almost 20 years: the Pulse oximeter you have in a smartwatch is mostly unchanged from the ones used in hospitals in the 90's except for changes in the light frequency and energy efficiency, the detectors are roughly the same. What has radically improved is the analytical software, however in order to get these benefits, you need to have a same-brand smartphone as part of the package. Samsung, Google, Apple all require you to have these or else they either don't offer the critical alerts package, or in the case of Samsung (for the last 3 years) barely offer functionality.
The problem with using a OTS smartwatch for critical health alerts is that the sensors on a smartwatch will tend to shift around enough to cause major problems with reading blood pressure etc.
This is why those devices don't typically get a medical device ID from a certifying body, and most of the time, they're only getting a very coarse reading for their accuracy when they do get approvals. These really aren't medical devices, they're fashion accessories with a health module attached.
There are similar devices from Omron and Hilo that have clinical validation (and as a happy aside, don't require you to buy the same-brand smartphone to work in an approved configuration) that are significantly more accurate.
Nah u got duped by the marketing. Samsung watches are just as compliant as Apple watches in the areas they actually bothered to seek it. These smart watches are screeners; they were never meant to monitor or even detect Tia's. They were never meant to replace your doctor's recommended health guardian device, and tbh I don't even think they are even equipped for continuous monitoring. My doctor still recommends them if I could afford it.
What they do well, in my experience, is give reasonably accurate readings with whatever sensors theyre marketed with. In the USA both Samsung and Apple have obtained health clearance from the FDA. I found both the blood pressure readings and the single lead ecg to be accurate. They're great at detecting change to better inform on health related decisions IMO
I'll tell you what: These were used as part of a UHN CPET study, so these were Doctors that were testing them. The same kind of long-term study is following long-COVID victims because they have similar monitoring requirements. Unless you have letters after your name and a competing set of studies with large population samples published, I would say that neither I, nor my cardiologist were duped by ad copy, thanks.
In each case, the devices were being evaluated for suitability for monitoring heart-failure patients, and in each case, I was part of a group that showed these were, out of the box with no calibration or anchoring on the body at least, not suitable for health monitoring.
IDK if you've ever had a Holter study, or had to use a 5-12 lead EKG unit, but they're not exactly liveable if you want to do much outside of the house.
There are devices that are useful (I use the Omron Heart Guide currently, planning on going to the Hilo band), but most smartwatches are not really GOOD at this... they're fine if you're getting a baseline, but otherwise, no, I agree, they're not appropriate for monitoring without calibration and anchoring.
Compliant only means the data is secure via HIPAA/GDPR. The sensors are generally not something you should be basing health decisions off of because they on a fashion accessory, not a medical device. They can shift around and give inaccurate readings: this is why you need an adhesive shield for a blood glucose monitor.
I'm saying this as someone with multiple TIA/AFIB that Apple, Samsung and Google devices missed (1 each, and I had the utterly needless same-brand phone with each so the app could communicate properly).
The O2 sat, temp and steps are generally okay (not perfect, but useful enough) but what I needed it for was blood pressure and heartrate, and for that, they're garbage. I kept a fingertip pulse oximeter with me to check when I felt symptoms because I could not trust the smart watches.
If you're using those as a general health gauge to get some kind of a baseline, fine. But if you need something to actively and accurately check vitals and alert you to real, immediate danger to your health, look elsewhere.
The only useful and certified blood pressure measuring device in a watch form are the Omron Heartguide and the problem with them is the cuff expands to get a proper reading (nuisance, but they are significantly more accurate). They're also unavailable now (sadly). The next best is a Hilo, but these need an annual ($129.99) subscription, so this may be a deciding factor.
Clinical validation is something that needs to happen with every iteration of hardware and software, and I'm sorry to say, it doesn't with most. Apple is pretty good, but they're lagged typically 3-8 months from launch because they are only evaluating the sensor for coarse accuracy. I think Google/Samsung are the same, but I haven't kept up with them.
This is correct.
As a nurse, I can attest that these products aren't recommended for true health monitoring. They are merely precursors to assist in maybe catching something that you wouldn't know daily until it is too late.
Apple, Samsung, Google, Garmin, etc. None of them are meant to replace visits, dedicated equipment, etc. I would lose my job if I based my assessment on data collected from a smartwatch for malpractice, because they simply aren't good enough at it (yet).
So in truth, nobody really NEEDS any of these products, but to call them useless forthright is a little facetious in nature. They do hold a place for baseline as you say, and for early warnings. Monitoring fitness is also a key indicator for health, and we would recommend getting a Fitbit if a diagnosis requires exercise as a treatment.
Overall, I'm not trying to say that your malign experience is false.
A decent part of what you say is true, but they are compliant, and they do hold a place.
So I do find your original answer as misguiding for the everyday man.
I haven't used Oura, but I know Apple Watch didn't require calibration when I last had mine, neither did my Samsung Galaxy watch or the Pixel watch.. All three missed critical events.
The major benefit I can think of with this is you don't need to take it off as often like you do with a watch when you have to charge it. But I believe a smart watch is still better because it tracks more data? I think I remember hearing that in a YouTube review.
Yeah, but that's completely missing the downside. You remember what happens to lithium batteries when they fuck up, yeah? They turn into danger pillows. Very volatile danger pillows
usually they last longer, i have a ringconn (not great for privacy, but functionally works well) and it lasts about a week, it's comfortable to sleep in, and isn't distracting
Smart watch probably has ECG and can do texts and install apps. This is more limited in measurements but still does an OK job. They have quite good battery too especially if you have fat fingers.
We live in a world now where people can make well articulated statements and it will still be misconstrued.
"I love vanilla ice cream" becomes "so you hate chocolate ice cream"
There are those people who literally don't care about the data being shared. Not because they have nothing to hide but because they have nothing that matters to hide. You could go through their entire life and see nothing important. So if someone or something is watching 24 hours of their useless life, then that someone/something is also wasting their useless life.
It's perfectly fine to use Google it's perfectly fine to not use Google. You don't have to hate chocolate to like vanilla.
There's a few misunderstanding with this though. No one is watching someone waste 24 hours of their lives at a time -- that's all going into software that analyzes and parses the data presented to it to create a model of that person. That's aggregated against other people, models are structures and manipulated, filters added, and -- boom! You have a means by which you can influence real-world events and trends. There are organizations that exist today that are using it for very insidious purposes. We should all be scared and willing to engage in behavior to change it.
I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with corporations having any undue influence in my life whether that's through my actions/data or the actions/data of others. It's wrong that the default is that corporations and governments get to farm and feed off of our data. It should be highly restricted by default and given away as a choice by the individual.
I like vanilla, and I don't care that someone else hates chocolate. I would take offense, however, if a guy holding a chocolate/vanilla/strawberry/whatever cone decided that he was going to start deciding what kind of ice cream I get to eat and started collecting data for that.
Imagine you are a foreign government hacking into these companies databases, or doing some agreements for their data for "marketing purposes".
Imagine you want to find someone that loves or own weapons.
Then from that, someone that shows signs of mental instability.
Now from that subgroup someone that hates a person you want to delete.
Imagine now that you can alter their social network feeds.
You know where this is going, right?
Well... I'm extremizing now, but this is technically possible. Not effortless, but possible for someone with a lot of resources.
We don't make laws for criminals. Fear of criminals committing crimes should not inform our progress. We don't make speed limits for the people that speed. We should consider speed limits dangerous because there are people who do speed.
I get it, the what ifs and fear inform your decision making. And of course I would love to believe that I have the types of enemies that would hack social networks just to alter my feed and algorithm but I'm unimportant and don't matter at all. Just like 99.9% of the people who have ever existed
Not "you" personally, but the multitude of "you" that makes a society.
And no one of "you" have nothing to hide, yet there is a race to scrape "you".
Many "free" stuff is payed with your freedom, with your data.
So if the multitude of you so unimportant, why there is this race for the data? Why companies invests millions in this?
You think you are unimportant, a soldier don't do an army, many soldiers do, yet a single soldier is unimportant and spendable, but without many singles there is no army.
Your data is important to advertise, market and feed you to the algorithm. That's all. You search Google for a car, then your entire social media starts advertising cars to you.
Not a single human being looked at your personal data, you were boiled down to simple algorithmic data and the system helped connect you with what you're looking for.
You look for and engage with specific topics? Not a single person looked at your data, but you will be simplified by the algorithm so that it continues to feed you content that you interact with so that you hang around more so that it can keep advertising to you.
This is why companies invest millions. They either want to be connected to you for marketing or they want to help connect you for ad dollars. No one cares about YOU, they care about your DATA because they care about YOUR MONEY.
I can 100% understand the want to disconnect from this. But you can disconnect and be connected at the same time.
Let's see, close to 70% of Google's money comes from search and ad revenue. The bulk of Metas revenue comes from digital marketing and metaverse, Amazon literally makes its living connecting sellers and buyers.
The days of billboards are dead, the big fish use directed advertisements based purely off what you are looking for. So yes you Data is used to track your identifiers. It would be cool if we were all Jason Bourne but we aren't, you're just a normal person working and feeding your family. You have 0 worth to the algorithm other than financial. They want YOUR MONEY.
Sure and if you don't want to do that then you go degoogled and your life is fine. I'm not sure what the problem is. To the people that literally don't care.. they do as they please. They check the boxes that allow their information to be used in exchange for access to the services. So while the "I have nothing to hide" people exist... There is a larger group that just doesn't care.
One can deGoogle all they want. But if a person walking down the sidewalk has a pair of meta glasses on and I'm walking in the opposite direction, what data is being collected about me without my authorization is my concern.
That's a level of paranoia that I cannot understand. You're afraid that someone looking at you with a pair of metas is going to expose your data to the universe? What data specifically?
Actually it doesn't matter what data. I think that you're not wrong. Necessarily but you're holding the nuclear launch codes. If you have no footprint nothing will be known. So what could be known?
Outside of Reddit and Discord... I don't really exist. Social media I haven't posted in years, and I don't use any other socials. So while I can't escape the almighty algorithm... It also doesn't matter that I need to.
Not paranoia, some researchers did this exact experiment, you can find a video on YouTube explaining all the process.
Smart glasses and an operator in front of a computer getting the data: they went to people asking "Hey NAME, how is you mother NAME, doing, did she recovered well from ILLNESS?"
"Do we known each others?"
"No".
Now imagine that that operator is an AI agent and you got an entire crowd with those glasses on.
And average people is sharing WAY MORE than that unconsciously.
Yeah for sure. I remember seeing that video and thought of some great implementations. I'm anxiously waiting for AndroidXR glasses to come out because as soon as I get those APIs I'm gonna attempt to create it.
"Paranoia is never entirely mistaken." -Sigmund Freud.
But seriously though, it's not about the wearer looking at me directly. They could be oblivious to me even being in the area. It's the data happening outside of their focus that can be monitored and or monetized that irks me.
"People that have trust issues only need to look in the mirror. There they will meet the one person that will betray them the most."
- Shannon Alder-
I've never had a moment where I could use this quote and this is as close as it's gonna get so rock with it.
The majority of people walking this planet are being tracked. Their data is being "shared" the algorithm has them and will keep suggesting and advertising to them based upon what they interact with. Meta and Google are trying to find ways to monetize you, they don't care about your data, they care about feeding the algorithm so that you can be advertised so you can buy more things. I remember back when I sold cars and unused Facebook markets and Google AdSense. It was scary how many people it funneled to me simply because I was able to market to a specific customer base making specific searches in a specific area. They don't care about YOU or any of us, they care about advertising and engagement and if they know what you engage with they know what to throw in front of you.... And if they know what you search for they know how to market to you.
That is the secret. That is the big brother. You're caring about Data leaks and they don't care about your data, they care about your money. They care about your engagement. The entire system is built on it. No one is after YOU, everyone is after your money. So when you degoogle you remove yourself from that algorithm.... The matrix so to speak. And that's fine. You're no more enlightened than the sheep. You just don't have a herd.
Perhaps Shannon is correct. But choosing to look into a mirror is vastly different from someone forcing you to look into the mirror and being able to monetize what it reflects.
I've started telling people they will have something to hide when their health insurance premiums mysteriously skyrocket after their collected health data is used to justify a price increase and denied claims.
tbh the average person isn't thinking outside of their bubble. Technical privacy is (somehow) still a niche interest, which is hilarious since physical privacy is such a highly sought after thing in the US.
It's the one thing George Orwell couldn't write. We don't just comply, we enthusiastically volunteer. Nobody would've bought that story. But it's real today.
I used a basic fitbit for a while then switched to a Galaxy Watch. It's been extremely helpful in losing weight (along with all the knock on effects). It still is for maintaining. Despite the gymbros' bros-science, these things make very well educated guesses about calories expenditure.
If I were anti-watch and aware of how helpful they are, I'd get a ring.
However, turns out, I'm anti-ring and pro-watch. Anyone who disagrees is a problem for society.
I got a bangle.js 2. Not as fancy but everything is 100% opensource and it just runs javascript apps, there is no cloud. You can also manually edit the software.
I’ve owned the Oura Ring for over a year now. I use it to track my health, activities, and to motivate myself to be more active, which works for me.
I’m well aware of the data it collects. I’m also aware that this data is collected and analyzed by Oura and might be shared with other third parties. If I were subject to the American health insurance system, I’d think twice about using such device.
Oura ring is the same thing. All of this is just mass-data collection for companies that can use it however they like, including selling to the highest bidder or with authoritarian governments looking to identify and suppress vulnerable targets in their population.
Ive always wondered how this could effect health coverage down the road.
Example Jeff Walton., 36 High blood pressure, high heart rate, no min exercise.
Jeff needs a double by pass at 55 do they deny coverage, or class you as untreatable ?
Sounds sci fi . But look how they manipulate us now.
Nice try, Samsung, but I'm not putting my finger into your ready-made doom pillow. I remember what kind of battery you maniacs installed in this technology, and I have no intention of setting my fucking hand on fire.
no, a phone is useful you can do anything with it from calling, texting and all general PC things. This ring is essentially a high end really small smartwatch except it's worse as you can't use it if you lift weights or do any calisthenics.
I get it. For me the main function of a smartwatch is fitness tracking including strength training, where wearing ring is a good way for you to get degloved (don't search for it unless you have a strong stomach).
A smartwatch is more useful. You have all the fitness features and also you can use it to interact with your phone (see notifications, messages, answer calls etc) which the ring doesn't have. And a smartwatch is much cheaper.
I’d prefer not to wrap a lithium ion bomb to
My finger all day everyday. Dangerous enough outing them to you ear and using wireless earbuds. I don’t need to increase my odds lol much less pay for that. I paid 30 bucks for my wedding band. I’m good
There was a study on Fitbit type watches that concluded that you could accurately determine the user' state of mind (happy, sad) from the watch's data set. Conclusion of the study was that it was financially sound to increase R&D in this field.
Incredibly clever and relentless marketing from Samsung (and other similar companies) has convinced people they need this shit. And they hand over their money, willy nilly,
On top of that let's not forget it's Smasnug. Of course there have been instances of those rings' batteries swelling up and locking around the users' fingers!
idk man I enjoy my watch, makes me feel more at peace wearing one, been worried about my heart for the past few months soooo..... I wish there were some open source models and all run locally but ig some sacrifices have to be made sometimes :/ but I agree rings suck idk why people buy those, I don't want that battery swelling to happen to me
Just got and set up a Garmin watch with gadget bridge. Does almost every feature that it does normally, but never sends data home to Garmin. If it doesn't work most of the way without internet, I don't want it.
Tech enthusiasts like this stuff do it sells. People that work in tech probably live 10 years behind in their home and will shoot if the electronic looks at them funny
People should consider the "I have nothing to hide" thing relative to a woman with her tits hanging out in public. Everyone has things to hide that are not illegal, immoral, wrong or indicative of anything abnormal in any way. There's a reason people put blinds on their windows, yet the consensus is somehow that everything electronic and the very data about our own bodies should be practically public or trusted with corporations who concern themselves only with profit, which is asinine.
This and Google Maps are the weak link in my privacy endeavor. I like the convenience, the ability to have data-driven view into my health (helps me associate my asthma symptoms to real data vs just how I "feel"), quantifying my sleep habits, and understanding my exercise and activity levels. But I have the smart watch, not too keen on the ring versions of these kinds of devices.
I also have a wallet GPS tag tied to my Google account. Again, convenience.
For me, right now, I'm focused on control. If Google disappeared or disabled my account entirely, what would be the impact on my life? I want the answer to that question to be "Almost nothing." Sure, I'd lose some convenience, but my life would go on just fine.
I'm also focused on better privacy (doing more self-hosting - e.g., Nextcloud), but it's a process and not an absolute.
What's the difference with a smart watch? (Except the obvious "it's a ring"? Most smart watches track sleep, health, location, heartrate, etc.
Essentially, nothing.
Most Smartwatches and rings are really poor as health sensors... no matter what they tout themselves as.
I've had the ring and a smartwatch, both failed to catch my TIA and heart arrythmia. There are health bands that can do that, but FWIW, they're all GDPR compliant - To my understanding, Samsung/Google bands are mostly not compliant, and Apple mostly is, but you have to opt out of the sale of your abstracted data.
If you're looking for a health tracker, I would not use product from a cellular phone manufacturer.
Privacy aside, this might've been true a few years ago, but trackers nowadays do a pretty stellar job at tracking heart rate, among other things. Of course it won't be 100% accurate, but the sensors improved a lot in the last few years.
Ironically, the sensors haven't 'improved' in almost 20 years: the Pulse oximeter you have in a smartwatch is mostly unchanged from the ones used in hospitals in the 90's except for changes in the light frequency and energy efficiency, the detectors are roughly the same. What has radically improved is the analytical software, however in order to get these benefits, you need to have a same-brand smartphone as part of the package. Samsung, Google, Apple all require you to have these or else they either don't offer the critical alerts package, or in the case of Samsung (for the last 3 years) barely offer functionality.
The problem with using a OTS smartwatch for critical health alerts is that the sensors on a smartwatch will tend to shift around enough to cause major problems with reading blood pressure etc.
This is why those devices don't typically get a medical device ID from a certifying body, and most of the time, they're only getting a very coarse reading for their accuracy when they do get approvals. These really aren't medical devices, they're fashion accessories with a health module attached.
There are similar devices from Omron and Hilo that have clinical validation (and as a happy aside, don't require you to buy the same-brand smartphone to work in an approved configuration) that are significantly more accurate.
Google Pixel/Fitbit products are compliant. Can't say about Samsung though
Samsung def is, as well. Seems like that guy got a defective one
Nope. I submitted reports that showed it missed critical health events through my cardiologist to Health Canada.
These aren't health monitors, they're fitness trackers, and those are not the same thing.
Nah u got duped by the marketing. Samsung watches are just as compliant as Apple watches in the areas they actually bothered to seek it. These smart watches are screeners; they were never meant to monitor or even detect Tia's. They were never meant to replace your doctor's recommended health guardian device, and tbh I don't even think they are even equipped for continuous monitoring. My doctor still recommends them if I could afford it.
What they do well, in my experience, is give reasonably accurate readings with whatever sensors theyre marketed with. In the USA both Samsung and Apple have obtained health clearance from the FDA. I found both the blood pressure readings and the single lead ecg to be accurate. They're great at detecting change to better inform on health related decisions IMO
I'll tell you what: These were used as part of a UHN CPET study, so these were Doctors that were testing them. The same kind of long-term study is following long-COVID victims because they have similar monitoring requirements. Unless you have letters after your name and a competing set of studies with large population samples published, I would say that neither I, nor my cardiologist were duped by ad copy, thanks.
In each case, the devices were being evaluated for suitability for monitoring heart-failure patients, and in each case, I was part of a group that showed these were, out of the box with no calibration or anchoring on the body at least, not suitable for health monitoring.
IDK if you've ever had a Holter study, or had to use a 5-12 lead EKG unit, but they're not exactly liveable if you want to do much outside of the house.
There are devices that are useful (I use the Omron Heart Guide currently, planning on going to the Hilo band), but most smartwatches are not really GOOD at this... they're fine if you're getting a baseline, but otherwise, no, I agree, they're not appropriate for monitoring without calibration and anchoring.
Compliant only means the data is secure via HIPAA/GDPR. The sensors are generally not something you should be basing health decisions off of because they on a fashion accessory, not a medical device. They can shift around and give inaccurate readings: this is why you need an adhesive shield for a blood glucose monitor.
I'm saying this as someone with multiple TIA/AFIB that Apple, Samsung and Google devices missed (1 each, and I had the utterly needless same-brand phone with each so the app could communicate properly).
The O2 sat, temp and steps are generally okay (not perfect, but useful enough) but what I needed it for was blood pressure and heartrate, and for that, they're garbage. I kept a fingertip pulse oximeter with me to check when I felt symptoms because I could not trust the smart watches.
If you're using those as a general health gauge to get some kind of a baseline, fine. But if you need something to actively and accurately check vitals and alert you to real, immediate danger to your health, look elsewhere.
The only useful and certified blood pressure measuring device in a watch form are the Omron Heartguide and the problem with them is the cuff expands to get a proper reading (nuisance, but they are significantly more accurate). They're also unavailable now (sadly). The next best is a Hilo, but these need an annual ($129.99) subscription, so this may be a deciding factor.
Clinical validation is something that needs to happen with every iteration of hardware and software, and I'm sorry to say, it doesn't with most. Apple is pretty good, but they're lagged typically 3-8 months from launch because they are only evaluating the sensor for coarse accuracy. I think Google/Samsung are the same, but I haven't kept up with them.
This is correct.
As a nurse, I can attest that these products aren't recommended for true health monitoring. They are merely precursors to assist in maybe catching something that you wouldn't know daily until it is too late.
Apple, Samsung, Google, Garmin, etc. None of them are meant to replace visits, dedicated equipment, etc. I would lose my job if I based my assessment on data collected from a smartwatch for malpractice, because they simply aren't good enough at it (yet).
So in truth, nobody really NEEDS any of these products, but to call them useless forthright is a little facetious in nature. They do hold a place for baseline as you say, and for early warnings. Monitoring fitness is also a key indicator for health, and we would recommend getting a Fitbit if a diagnosis requires exercise as a treatment.
Overall, I'm not trying to say that your malign experience is false.
A decent part of what you say is true, but they are compliant, and they do hold a place.
So I do find your original answer as misguiding for the everyday man.
Oura is good, apple watch is good
I haven't used Oura, but I know Apple Watch didn't require calibration when I last had mine, neither did my Samsung Galaxy watch or the Pixel watch.. All three missed critical events.
The major benefit I can think of with this is you don't need to take it off as often like you do with a watch when you have to charge it. But I believe a smart watch is still better because it tracks more data? I think I remember hearing that in a YouTube review.
I had mi band like 5 years ago, and i bet it had more features than this ring. Cost 20$ max. One charge monthly was enough.
Won't go well with a dress watch.
Then buy a fancier looking smartwatch.
or a fancy band and put on a fancy watch face
Why not? There are fancy bands, metal, gold, onyx. You would be suprised how well they match different styles.
Friend of mine bought a ring like that because she disliked the bulky smart watches and wanted to wear more feminine watches.
Yeah, but that's completely missing the downside. You remember what happens to lithium batteries when they fuck up, yeah? They turn into danger pillows. Very volatile danger pillows
how about 30 day battery life vs a watches 21 hour battery?
usually they last longer, i have a ringconn (not great for privacy, but functionally works well) and it lasts about a week, it's comfortable to sleep in, and isn't distracting
[removed]
Your comment was removed for violating our community guidelines. Please keep discussions civil and respectful.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Smart watch probably has ECG and can do texts and install apps. This is more limited in measurements but still does an OK job. They have quite good battery too especially if you have fat fingers.
Apple doesn’t collect data in the same way Samsung and Garmin do.
Care to elaborate? Because apple collects much more data than usual, they just pinky promise to not share it.
Tell me more about garmin
Most Garmins work with Gadgetbridge
Oh you think that's bad? How about the guy who had the battery swell around his finger right before he had to get on a flight.
https://www.tomsguide.com/wellness/smart-rings/samsung-galaxy-ring-owner-reportedly-hospitalized-after-it-swells-wont-be-wearing-a-smart-ring-ever-again
Mental note update: new reason to not ever wear this crap
Jeez at least with a watch it's easy enough to get it off if something like that were to happen. That's genuinely scary.
Well, at least it's not subscription based... oh wait-
Sounds like a lawsuit. Remind me of the note 9
Note 7
Ah thanks.
Oura rings have been around for awhile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oura_Health
They also send your data
They also partnered with Palantir so it's probably worse.
Yep just informing the OP about who else is out there doing this shit
Fools and their money. Easily parted
"I've got nothing to hide"....
The same argument made by meta Ray-Ban wearers.
And whatever Oculus or VR headset those are that need a Facebook account. Fuck Meta.
[removed]
Your comment was removed for violating our community guidelines. Please keep discussions civil and respectful.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
We live in a world now where people can make well articulated statements and it will still be misconstrued.
"I love vanilla ice cream" becomes "so you hate chocolate ice cream"
There are those people who literally don't care about the data being shared. Not because they have nothing to hide but because they have nothing that matters to hide. You could go through their entire life and see nothing important. So if someone or something is watching 24 hours of their useless life, then that someone/something is also wasting their useless life.
It's perfectly fine to use Google it's perfectly fine to not use Google. You don't have to hate chocolate to like vanilla.
There's a few misunderstanding with this though. No one is watching someone waste 24 hours of their lives at a time -- that's all going into software that analyzes and parses the data presented to it to create a model of that person. That's aggregated against other people, models are structures and manipulated, filters added, and -- boom! You have a means by which you can influence real-world events and trends. There are organizations that exist today that are using it for very insidious purposes. We should all be scared and willing to engage in behavior to change it.
I don't know about you, but I'm not comfortable with corporations having any undue influence in my life whether that's through my actions/data or the actions/data of others. It's wrong that the default is that corporations and governments get to farm and feed off of our data. It should be highly restricted by default and given away as a choice by the individual.
I like vanilla, and I don't care that someone else hates chocolate. I would take offense, however, if a guy holding a chocolate/vanilla/strawberry/whatever cone decided that he was going to start deciding what kind of ice cream I get to eat and started collecting data for that.
Imagine you are a foreign government hacking into these companies databases, or doing some agreements for their data for "marketing purposes".
Imagine you want to find someone that loves or own weapons. Then from that, someone that shows signs of mental instability. Now from that subgroup someone that hates a person you want to delete. Imagine now that you can alter their social network feeds. You know where this is going, right?
Well... I'm extremizing now, but this is technically possible. Not effortless, but possible for someone with a lot of resources.
We don't make laws for criminals. Fear of criminals committing crimes should not inform our progress. We don't make speed limits for the people that speed. We should consider speed limits dangerous because there are people who do speed.
I get it, the what ifs and fear inform your decision making. And of course I would love to believe that I have the types of enemies that would hack social networks just to alter my feed and algorithm but I'm unimportant and don't matter at all. Just like 99.9% of the people who have ever existed
Not "you" personally, but the multitude of "you" that makes a society. And no one of "you" have nothing to hide, yet there is a race to scrape "you". Many "free" stuff is payed with your freedom, with your data.
So if the multitude of you so unimportant, why there is this race for the data? Why companies invests millions in this?
You think you are unimportant, a soldier don't do an army, many soldiers do, yet a single soldier is unimportant and spendable, but without many singles there is no army.
Your data is important to advertise, market and feed you to the algorithm. That's all. You search Google for a car, then your entire social media starts advertising cars to you.
Not a single human being looked at your personal data, you were boiled down to simple algorithmic data and the system helped connect you with what you're looking for. You look for and engage with specific topics? Not a single person looked at your data, but you will be simplified by the algorithm so that it continues to feed you content that you interact with so that you hang around more so that it can keep advertising to you.
This is why companies invest millions. They either want to be connected to you for marketing or they want to help connect you for ad dollars. No one cares about YOU, they care about your DATA because they care about YOUR MONEY.
I can 100% understand the want to disconnect from this. But you can disconnect and be connected at the same time.
Do you really believe that is ONLY for marketing purposes?
Let's see, close to 70% of Google's money comes from search and ad revenue. The bulk of Metas revenue comes from digital marketing and metaverse, Amazon literally makes its living connecting sellers and buyers.
The days of billboards are dead, the big fish use directed advertisements based purely off what you are looking for. So yes you Data is used to track your identifiers. It would be cool if we were all Jason Bourne but we aren't, you're just a normal person working and feeding your family. You have 0 worth to the algorithm other than financial. They want YOUR MONEY.
Sure and if you don't want to do that then you go degoogled and your life is fine. I'm not sure what the problem is. To the people that literally don't care.. they do as they please. They check the boxes that allow their information to be used in exchange for access to the services. So while the "I have nothing to hide" people exist... There is a larger group that just doesn't care.
One can deGoogle all they want. But if a person walking down the sidewalk has a pair of meta glasses on and I'm walking in the opposite direction, what data is being collected about me without my authorization is my concern.
That's a level of paranoia that I cannot understand. You're afraid that someone looking at you with a pair of metas is going to expose your data to the universe? What data specifically?
Actually it doesn't matter what data. I think that you're not wrong. Necessarily but you're holding the nuclear launch codes. If you have no footprint nothing will be known. So what could be known?
Outside of Reddit and Discord... I don't really exist. Social media I haven't posted in years, and I don't use any other socials. So while I can't escape the almighty algorithm... It also doesn't matter that I need to.
Some of us actually go out of their mom's basement
Not paranoia, some researchers did this exact experiment, you can find a video on YouTube explaining all the process. Smart glasses and an operator in front of a computer getting the data: they went to people asking "Hey NAME, how is you mother NAME, doing, did she recovered well from ILLNESS?" "Do we known each others?" "No".
Now imagine that that operator is an AI agent and you got an entire crowd with those glasses on.
And average people is sharing WAY MORE than that unconsciously.
Yeah for sure. I remember seeing that video and thought of some great implementations. I'm anxiously waiting for AndroidXR glasses to come out because as soon as I get those APIs I'm gonna attempt to create it.
We are trashing our humanity in the toilet and flush. How many generations until we will be controlled by conscious synthetic beings?
"Paranoia is never entirely mistaken." -Sigmund Freud.
But seriously though, it's not about the wearer looking at me directly. They could be oblivious to me even being in the area. It's the data happening outside of their focus that can be monitored and or monetized that irks me.
"People that have trust issues only need to look in the mirror. There they will meet the one person that will betray them the most." - Shannon Alder-
I've never had a moment where I could use this quote and this is as close as it's gonna get so rock with it.
The majority of people walking this planet are being tracked. Their data is being "shared" the algorithm has them and will keep suggesting and advertising to them based upon what they interact with. Meta and Google are trying to find ways to monetize you, they don't care about your data, they care about feeding the algorithm so that you can be advertised so you can buy more things. I remember back when I sold cars and unused Facebook markets and Google AdSense. It was scary how many people it funneled to me simply because I was able to market to a specific customer base making specific searches in a specific area. They don't care about YOU or any of us, they care about advertising and engagement and if they know what you engage with they know what to throw in front of you.... And if they know what you search for they know how to market to you.
That is the secret. That is the big brother. You're caring about Data leaks and they don't care about your data, they care about your money. They care about your engagement. The entire system is built on it. No one is after YOU, everyone is after your money. So when you degoogle you remove yourself from that algorithm.... The matrix so to speak. And that's fine. You're no more enlightened than the sheep. You just don't have a herd.
Perhaps Shannon is correct. But choosing to look into a mirror is vastly different from someone forcing you to look into the mirror and being able to monetize what it reflects.
thats not the problem people have with the “I have nothing to hide” excuse
Does your bathroom business matter? No? So why do you poop with the door closed?
So you don't smell my shit?
I've started telling people they will have something to hide when their health insurance premiums mysteriously skyrocket after their collected health data is used to justify a price increase and denied claims.
tbh the average person isn't thinking outside of their bubble. Technical privacy is (somehow) still a niche interest, which is hilarious since physical privacy is such a highly sought after thing in the US.
who am i
Give me a counter example to "I've got nothing to hide"
Absolute counter argument
Usually with a credit card.
</dadjoke>
Same way people end up with Cybertrucks, "smart" fridges and AI glasses... more money than sense.
Not in The Netherlands
</dadjoke>
Wait, why is that?
Because that is mainly an American disease.
People in the Netherlands rarely use credit cards. Most people don't even have one.
I had no idea! Thanks! TIL.
We use debit cards.
You didn't even open the element that's invalid xml
Wait wait wait slow down now, the who and the what? You kids and all your whiz-bang gadgets and gizmos. Back in my day...
Anyone played D&D and/or Paranoia? Or the joke Papers & Paychecks RPG from the Knights of the Dinner Table comic, which mocked D&D players.
There is a nifty campaign idea here in which all the "magical artifacts" are really cursed surveillance devices. lol
Hoody Hoo!
It's the one thing George Orwell couldn't write. We don't just comply, we enthusiastically volunteer. Nobody would've bought that story. But it's real today.
Huxley did
Only reason i can see is medical condition, like heart irregularity or such
my grandma wants one. i could see it useful for grandparents or people with health concerns, but anyone else its unnecessary.
Yup. I fully agree the ill or elderly is only use case. Everyone else will rather use this to tell themselves how they feel. How did I sleep, etc
I agree, same goes for a smart watch
Yes, medical and actual "health" stuff.
I used a basic fitbit for a while then switched to a Galaxy Watch. It's been extremely helpful in losing weight (along with all the knock on effects). It still is for maintaining. Despite the gymbros' bros-science, these things make very well educated guesses about calories expenditure.
If I were anti-watch and aware of how helpful they are, I'd get a ring.
However, turns out, I'm anti-ring and pro-watch. Anyone who disagrees is a problem for society.
Very soon people will be asking for smart anal probes. And I'll be reading about in it on my GrapheneOS.
The future is here!
https://smartsextoys.com.au/products/nuo-by-je-joue-smart-butt-plug-anal-vibrator
internally screaming
which ironically triggered the soothe setting of my Nuo.
Without words. LOL.
r/angryupvote
stupid comment. but funny!
Cheers!
Surveillance "self care"
Just remember, if you ask people to leave their devices in the car, you're the weird one.
nothing new beside the form
$449 e-waste
Well I got caught by the marketing for a watch some years ago. I regret it now, even if it really helped me to be in better shape
At least you got something from it, which is a good thing
You can use the Gadgetbridge app to use smartwatches without tracking
How does it reduce tracking compared to garmin, since i already use garmin connect.
Keeps the data on your phone and the app is FOSS
I got a bangle.js 2. Not as fancy but everything is 100% opensource and it just runs javascript apps, there is no cloud. You can also manually edit the software.
I’ve owned the Oura Ring for over a year now. I use it to track my health, activities, and to motivate myself to be more active, which works for me.
I’m well aware of the data it collects. I’m also aware that this data is collected and analyzed by Oura and might be shared with other third parties. If I were subject to the American health insurance system, I’d think twice about using such device.
How they buy is easy. Go into the shop, ask for the product, pay, ...
I think your question is a big WHY ?
Oura ring is the same thing. All of this is just mass-data collection for companies that can use it however they like, including selling to the highest bidder or with authoritarian governments looking to identify and suppress vulnerable targets in their population.
Edit: a word
Ive always wondered how this could effect health coverage down the road.
Example Jeff Walton., 36 High blood pressure, high heart rate, no min exercise.
Jeff needs a double by pass at 55 do they deny coverage, or class you as untreatable ?
Sounds sci fi . But look how they manipulate us now.
Nice try, Samsung, but I'm not putting my finger into your ready-made doom pillow. I remember what kind of battery you maniacs installed in this technology, and I have no intention of setting my fucking hand on fire.
Penis rings, now they want to monitor the erections of people who have penises.
I used to work at a Samsung store and seeing those ring size guides being snapped off is triggering some sort of episode in me.
What do you even mean? You can make same the sentence with a phone that tracks you too, right?
It's useful, that's why people buy it.
no, a phone is useful you can do anything with it from calling, texting and all general PC things. This ring is essentially a high end really small smartwatch except it's worse as you can't use it if you lift weights or do any calisthenics.
I get people in this sub are paranoid but some simply don't care and a ring is actually less intrusive than a whole smartwatch.
I get it. For me the main function of a smartwatch is fitness tracking including strength training, where wearing ring is a good way for you to get degloved (don't search for it unless you have a strong stomach).
A smartwatch is more useful. You have all the fitness features and also you can use it to interact with your phone (see notifications, messages, answer calls etc) which the ring doesn't have. And a smartwatch is much cheaper.
There were some rough degloving videos I saw way too young that stuck with me.
Ive never worn rings lol
edit: or worked a lathe (shudders)
I’d prefer not to wrap a lithium ion bomb to My finger all day everyday. Dangerous enough outing them to you ear and using wireless earbuds. I don’t need to increase my odds lol much less pay for that. I paid 30 bucks for my wedding band. I’m good
If I’m gonna buy jewelry it’s gonna be covered in diamonds and gold. Not this cheap product.
Throw in some platinum and I am with you oh glizy redditor.
There was a study on Fitbit type watches that concluded that you could accurately determine the user' state of mind (happy, sad) from the watch's data set. Conclusion of the study was that it was financially sound to increase R&D in this field.
Edit: link https://www.sciencedirect.com/org/science/article/pii/S2368795918000653
Everything tracks you and anything sends it to their database...
average consumer wants a better life but cant be assed to be responsible for themselves. idk
"How do people buy this?"
Incredibly clever and relentless marketing from Samsung (and other similar companies) has convinced people they need this shit. And they hand over their money, willy nilly,
On top of that let's not forget it's Smasnug. Of course there have been instances of those rings' batteries swelling up and locking around the users' fingers!
idk man I enjoy my watch, makes me feel more at peace wearing one, been worried about my heart for the past few months soooo..... I wish there were some open source models and all run locally but ig some sacrifices have to be made sometimes :/ but I agree rings suck idk why people buy those, I don't want that battery swelling to happen to me
Courage mon frère !
[removed]
Your comment was removed for violating our community guidelines. Please keep discussions civil and respectful.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
Just got and set up a Garmin watch with gadget bridge. Does almost every feature that it does normally, but never sends data home to Garmin. If it doesn't work most of the way without internet, I don't want it.
What they don't tell you, is that it comes with a note 7 battery preinstalled for your pleasure!
One ring to rule them all
My 1st thought too.
Fucking FitBits.
i didnt know smasnug made a ripoff of the nuva ring
eta: Oura. i meant oura.
Why would you want to buy anything that sends your health data to Samsung’s, a tech company’s, database, instead of to a health facility/your doctor?
1984
Tech enthusiasts like this stuff do it sells. People that work in tech probably live 10 years behind in their home and will shoot if the electronic looks at them funny
And also it expands its battery while on the owners finger
Didn't the aura ring sign a deal with Palantir? Doesn't Samsung have un-deletable Israeli spyware on it? Come on ppl.
>Doesn't Samsung have un-deletable Israeli spyware on it? Come on ppl.
Only the budget ones, weirdly.
People should consider the "I have nothing to hide" thing relative to a woman with her tits hanging out in public. Everyone has things to hide that are not illegal, immoral, wrong or indicative of anything abnormal in any way. There's a reason people put blinds on their windows, yet the consensus is somehow that everything electronic and the very data about our own bodies should be practically public or trusted with corporations who concern themselves only with profit, which is asinine.
This applies to smart watches too.
That's why I sold my AWU and getting a Citizen watch next year.
dumbes who have money
Ppl are dumb.
Bro, you don't need to connect it to Samsung, there is an app called gadhetbridge thats foss
It's to keep track of my wife...
Why do people buy microwaves with more than two dials?
Why do we have AI but still can't sync calendars without issues or have an effing file explorer that finds files on your computer?
With cash
This and Google Maps are the weak link in my privacy endeavor. I like the convenience, the ability to have data-driven view into my health (helps me associate my asthma symptoms to real data vs just how I "feel"), quantifying my sleep habits, and understanding my exercise and activity levels. But I have the smart watch, not too keen on the ring versions of these kinds of devices.
I also have a wallet GPS tag tied to my Google account. Again, convenience.
For me, right now, I'm focused on control. If Google disappeared or disabled my account entirely, what would be the impact on my life? I want the answer to that question to be "Almost nothing." Sure, I'd lose some convenience, but my life would go on just fine.
I'm also focused on better privacy (doing more self-hosting - e.g., Nextcloud), but it's a process and not an absolute.