All these comments about her are making me want to replay and do some of her free time events. Maybe the whole despair disease thing just left a bad taste in my mouth
Mikan deserves better! I dun blame her for what happened in chapter 3, I blame the disease and whichever dev thought making that the motive was a good idea.
Totally agree on chapter 3. The thing with Hiyoko was right there and they still chose that as the motive. There were definitely other ways to foreshadow the remnants of despair.
Why’s that? My Mikan hate is biased because She killed Ibuki and her execution sucked but I don’t feel like Akane really did anything throughout the story. All of her emotional moments are related to Nekomaru and I don’t remember her being anything notable outside of him
! I think mikan is a really good exploration of how the "perfect victim " idea isn't really true in alot of cases , she' isn't evil or a bad person persay but she someone who literally took her job as a nurse just so she can power over people. And all that tripping, it isn't accident , she does it because it brings her the most attention, it gives her a sense of value something she didn't have before . Her regaining her memories of ultimate despair, remembering more undiscovered trauma , but also remembering someone who did give her value , junko . It makes mikan such fascinating character , in that she sees hope in junko , someone who literally is called " the despair queen " !
I got the stuff with Junko from the trial but I didn’t know about the tripping having a purpose. Was it from the FTEs? Either way, I feel like I would like her more if she had an actual reason to be a culprit instead of despair disease!Chapter 3 would’ve been a lot better if it drew on Mikan and Hiyoko’s relationship to make a motive from there, I think.
i mean yeah, everyone was innocent at some point in their lives, but she is still evil, a person who gets pleasure from torturing others with no remorse.
by that logic every single character in 2 except for Chiaki is evil because all of them did similar or worse things as Ultimate Despairs, and Mikan in Ch3 is just herself (and everyone else would be too with the affliction she gets) with their Ultimate Despair personalities/memories
exactly. without the brainwashing, everyone of them is evil except Chiaki, and the only one who is kind of redeemed is Nagito, who was willing to punish himself and all the other guilty people the moment he found out the truth, while saving the only innocent person.
I don't know if I would personally quantify a group of people that were brainwashed against their will into commit atrocious and heinous crimes as "evil" so that's where we're gonna have to agree to disagree. None of them willingly chose to become Ultimate Despairs, and the way both the game and anime especially frame it, I have a hard time labeling any of the 77th class as evil the same way I would label Junko herself as evil. Did they do "evil" things? Yeah, they did, but I wouldn't label the characters themselves as "evil".
Yes, that's why i said "without the brainwashing".
the whole "brainwashing" plotline is a cheap way to completely erase all guilt, accountability and depth these characters had in 2, completely erase the power of junko and her manipulation, basically saying "oh these people are completely innocent, they were just used as puppets".
There wasn't any hint towards the brainwashing at all in 2, even when nagito got his memories, or when mikan got the disease, it's a retcon that ruined the characters for me, to make the fans feel better about them
yeah, i know, i was talking from the perspective of 2 alone. this is such a cheap way out, completely removing all depth, accountability or guilt from all characters and just making it "oh they're all innocent it was always junko".
Even outside of their relationship I just think both characters are individually great. Nagito throughout the game is what I wish Byakuya was in the first, and Hajime being a relatively normal person compared to Makoto’s overwhelming optimism was a welcome change for me
Mahiru had so much potential, she's a lot like Ruruka in that sense for me. Very flawed but killed off before she ever had a chance to grow and change substantially.
This. It sucks even more because Hiyoko, who was supposed to benefit from that happening, didn’t get to grow either. I think it would have been cool if Fuyuhiko and her both survived chapter 2 and had to reconcile with each other
Yeah. The entire of premise of chapter 2 is bogged down because Hiyoko dies. It's funny that Mikan is the one to kill her but Fuyuhiko living feels odd without Hiyoko there. Like, what was the point? This is like if Asahina died after chapter 4. I really wanted there to be some kind of intervention between the two of them.
Please leave a DETAILED description of around 5-6 sentences minimum about the tier list and/or character opinion in the comments or it will be removed. This is a mandatory requirement.
Saying stuff like “this is my tierlist and it’s based off my own opinions” is not enough, we require actual explanations towards things such as tier meanings or reasons for character placements.
Got it. I’ll leave the explanation here for reference.
Komahina: These two characters are the driving force of the game. Nagito especially. I always felt that the first game was missing an antagonistic force in the trials that wasn’t the killer. It was unrealistic that pretty much no one opposed Makoto outside of the situation in Chapter 1 and Byakuya’s shenanigans in two. With Hajime, I love that he calls people out on their foolishness. Makoto would let pretty much anything slide, which annoyed me, but Hajime feels like his own person. Plus, his insecurity plot line with the big endgame reveal was great too.
Wife/Ibuki: This one’s pretty simple, I just love her energy in the FTEs and in the trials. While she’s a good comic relief, you can also tell that she really cares about people, which is a trait she shares with Mahiru. She also brings up some good points for Hajime to agree with/use to find the killer.
GOATED: All of these characters are contenders for best in the game if the top two didn’t exist. Gundham especially stood out to me because I never thought much of him until Chapter 4.
Wish I got more from you: Both Twogami and Mahiru got screwed over by the plot. I liked their personalities, but they didn’t get enough time to develop
Fine I guess: Both of these characters are individually okay, but there are several others I wanted to survive over them. Kazuichi especially grated my nerves with the Sonia stuff
Ew: Annoying kid, despair disease, and pervert. Nothing else to say
Not much to argue about, except poor Mikan, stuck next to Teruteru and Hiyoko... free my girl.
All these comments about her are making me want to replay and do some of her free time events. Maybe the whole despair disease thing just left a bad taste in my mouth
"please argue with me" and its quite possibly the most generic and plain list of all time
I was looking for hot takes from other people. I’m aware my taste isn’t that crazy
Mikan deserves better! I dun blame her for what happened in chapter 3, I blame the disease and whichever dev thought making that the motive was a good idea.
Totally agree on chapter 3. The thing with Hiyoko was right there and they still chose that as the motive. There were definitely other ways to foreshadow the remnants of despair.
I can argue that akane and mikan are too low
Why’s that? My Mikan hate is biased because She killed Ibuki and her execution sucked but I don’t feel like Akane really did anything throughout the story. All of her emotional moments are related to Nekomaru and I don’t remember her being anything notable outside of him
! I think mikan is a really good exploration of how the "perfect victim " idea isn't really true in alot of cases , she' isn't evil or a bad person persay but she someone who literally took her job as a nurse just so she can power over people. And all that tripping, it isn't accident , she does it because it brings her the most attention, it gives her a sense of value something she didn't have before . Her regaining her memories of ultimate despair, remembering more undiscovered trauma , but also remembering someone who did give her value , junko . It makes mikan such fascinating character , in that she sees hope in junko , someone who literally is called " the despair queen " !
I got the stuff with Junko from the trial but I didn’t know about the tripping having a purpose. Was it from the FTEs? Either way, I feel like I would like her more if she had an actual reason to be a culprit instead of despair disease!Chapter 3 would’ve been a lot better if it drew on Mikan and Hiyoko’s relationship to make a motive from there, I think.
>she' isn't evil or a bad person
she literally killed a person for pleasure and felt nothing over it, what about that isn't evil?
! I mean, before regaining her memories, her past self was innocent, yet a flawed person !
i mean yeah, everyone was innocent at some point in their lives, but she is still evil, a person who gets pleasure from torturing others with no remorse.
by that logic every single character in 2 except for Chiaki is evil because all of them did similar or worse things as Ultimate Despairs, and Mikan in Ch3 is just herself (and everyone else would be too with the affliction she gets) with their Ultimate Despair personalities/memories
exactly.
without the brainwashing, everyone of them is evil except Chiaki, and the only one who is kind of redeemed is Nagito, who was willing to punish himself and all the other guilty people the moment he found out the truth, while saving the only innocent person.
I don't know if I would personally quantify a group of people that were brainwashed against their will into commit atrocious and heinous crimes as "evil" so that's where we're gonna have to agree to disagree. None of them willingly chose to become Ultimate Despairs, and the way both the game and anime especially frame it, I have a hard time labeling any of the 77th class as evil the same way I would label Junko herself as evil. Did they do "evil" things? Yeah, they did, but I wouldn't label the characters themselves as "evil".
SPOILERS, you need the spoiler tag.
Yes, that's why i said "without the brainwashing".
the whole "brainwashing" plotline is a cheap way to completely erase all guilt, accountability and depth these characters had in 2, completely erase the power of junko and her manipulation, basically saying "oh these people are completely innocent, they were just used as puppets". There wasn't any hint towards the brainwashing at all in 2, even when nagito got his memories, or when mikan got the disease, it's a retcon that ruined the characters for me, to make the fans feel better about them
DR3 Spoilers: Mikan was brainwashed into it 😭 The actual Mikan, without brainwashing, is not like that
yeah, i know, i was talking from the perspective of 2 alone.
this is such a cheap way out, completely removing all depth, accountability or guilt from all characters and just making it "oh they're all innocent it was always junko".
Mikan is best girl fr fr
Explain Mr. Footstool!
Fingers crossed we get more screentime with both of them in 2x2
No. Ibuki is my wife, not yours.
All makes sense but i will personally gun down Komahina.
Well, I can say that you're 100% on top of your favorites... After all, the game is basically focused on their relationship 😭
Even outside of their relationship I just think both characters are individually great. Nagito throughout the game is what I wish Byakuya was in the first, and Hajime being a relatively normal person compared to Makoto’s overwhelming optimism was a welcome change for me
Yup, I agree with that, I love them, they're great both individually and as a duo :]
Mahiru had so much potential, she's a lot like Ruruka in that sense for me. Very flawed but killed off before she ever had a chance to grow and change substantially.
This. It sucks even more because Hiyoko, who was supposed to benefit from that happening, didn’t get to grow either. I think it would have been cool if Fuyuhiko and her both survived chapter 2 and had to reconcile with each other
Yeah. The entire of premise of chapter 2 is bogged down because Hiyoko dies. It's funny that Mikan is the one to kill her but Fuyuhiko living feels odd without Hiyoko there. Like, what was the point? This is like if Asahina died after chapter 4. I really wanted there to be some kind of intervention between the two of them.
Nekomaru should be in wife tier instead of Ibuki.
I don’t have a good argument for this one other than Good-nom-nomming > SHIT!
Coach is definitely marriage material though
Please leave a DETAILED description of around 5-6 sentences minimum about the tier list and/or character opinion in the comments or it will be removed. This is a mandatory requirement.
Saying stuff like “this is my tierlist and it’s based off my own opinions” is not enough, we require actual explanations towards things such as tier meanings or reasons for character placements.
Check this post for more information
Check this post for an example
Got it. I’ll leave the explanation here for reference.
Komahina: These two characters are the driving force of the game. Nagito especially. I always felt that the first game was missing an antagonistic force in the trials that wasn’t the killer. It was unrealistic that pretty much no one opposed Makoto outside of the situation in Chapter 1 and Byakuya’s shenanigans in two. With Hajime, I love that he calls people out on their foolishness. Makoto would let pretty much anything slide, which annoyed me, but Hajime feels like his own person. Plus, his insecurity plot line with the big endgame reveal was great too.
Wife/Ibuki: This one’s pretty simple, I just love her energy in the FTEs and in the trials. While she’s a good comic relief, you can also tell that she really cares about people, which is a trait she shares with Mahiru. She also brings up some good points for Hajime to agree with/use to find the killer.
GOATED: All of these characters are contenders for best in the game if the top two didn’t exist. Gundham especially stood out to me because I never thought much of him until Chapter 4.
Wish I got more from you: Both Twogami and Mahiru got screwed over by the plot. I liked their personalities, but they didn’t get enough time to develop
Fine I guess: Both of these characters are individually okay, but there are several others I wanted to survive over them. Kazuichi especially grated my nerves with the Sonia stuff
Ew: Annoying kid, despair disease, and pervert. Nothing else to say