So this all happened within the last two days, so bear with me if I’m rambling. Still reeling and processing everything that’s happened.
Friday was the big day for me. After two kids in two years, I was ready to get the snip. Our youngest had a particularly traumatic birth that resulted in an emergency c-section where we almost lost the baby. Coming up on a year from that now and ever since then we have been in agreement that we were “two and through.” Especially with how bad it was for her with the operation and the very long recovery period. I was very fortunate to have paternity leave to help her through the recovery process, taking care of our newborn daughter, and taking care of our toddler. It was stressful especially without much help from family. My mom helped at the beginning for a bit but my wife doesn’t much like my family and her family stresses her out. It was tough but we got through it.
Around Thanksgiving I told her I was ready to have my procedure. We agreed that our family was now complete and after all she had been through, I don’t want the onus to be on her to close that door. It’s a lot easier for a guy and it felt like the right thing to do. Had two consultations in December at different practices (the first one wanted to put me under and that was a no for me), and settled on January 9 for my V-Day.
I get the procedure done. She picks me up and stops at the store to get me some of my favorite snacks. Then I spend the rest of the evening in my office icing myself and watching movies. I thought all was well.
Then Saturday started. First she starts calling me an “asshole” and a “shithead” for getting the procedure, then tells our two year old to hit me in the balls (he doesn’t). She accuses me of only thinking about myself and that I didn’t discuss this with her. That blew my mind because I thought this matter was long settled. And I know some women grieve the loss of an unrealized kid. I get it. Closing a chapter isn’t always easy. I didn’t think it was fair how she was talking to me but I figured I’d let her blow off some steam and give her space to clear her head. Last thing I needed was a fight less than 24 hours after the procedure.
Still uneasy throughout the day until her mom texts us in the group chat asking how I’m doing. My wife says “fuck [my name]. Who cares about him. He’s only thinking about himself.” MIL tries to standup for me but I am livid just reading that.
To follow it up, wife texts me directly saying she’s unhappy in this marriage and has been for five years. She accuses me of being a terrible partner and that she needs to leave to reevaluate her life. I try to stay calm through all this and asks if she wants to talk to a marriage counselor. She then calls me a “prick” and tells me I’m selfish. No answer on the marriage counseling.
She hasn’t left yet. Her parents have a lake house an hour from here and I expect she will go there tomorrow with the kids. Today was all cold shoulders and focusing on the kids.
My head is spinning. I knew we’ve been fighting a lot. Raising two kids on one income (mine) with virtually no support is stressful, and we’ve had numerous arguments over the last couple years. But for her to tell me she’s been unhappy for five years?! That’s before relocating to a different state, buying a house, and having two kids. And to call me selfish when I take an equal part in raising the kids, work hard to provide a good life for our family, and supported her while she hasn’t worked in six years… I just can’t begin to understand that. Never mind that we talked about the vasectomy many times over the course of a year.
I’m talking to my therapist tomorrow. Haven’t needed to speak with him in three years so that’s fun. But I fear my marriage is ending.
Sorry for the long post. I just really need to get this off my chest.
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Sounds like there was something unresolved around having more kids that she probably should have brought up beforehand…
This. OP, are you sure she was absolutely on the same page about this? Or was it you attempting to convince her? I know some people are extremely passionate about wanting another child.
Up until a couple of days ago I was certain. We tried so long for the first one and when we had him we were both open to a second. The second one came about much sooner than expected but we were definitely on the same page.
She hated being pregnant for both of them. And with the last one being an emergency c-section where we almost lost the baby, we both agreed no more. Gave her almost a year to mull it over.
So, did she know you were going for the snip today, like immediately before you did it? Was this a known procedure by all, everyone very aware, on shared calendar, everything Like theres no doubt that she knew you were going today, right?
Because it sounds like either she didn't realize it was today and you'd planned it like a year ago, scheduled it etc. and maybe let her know about it back then and she had no idea you were doing that today.
Told her on Thanksgiving I wanted to go in for a consultation. Went in to my first consultation December 3rd. Second consultation December 8th. Set the appointment for January 9th. It wasn’t marked on the calendar but the date was written on a post it note on top of the kitchen table up until the day of. I kept no secrets from her.
Please tell me you didn't only tell her about the consultation. That you told her you got a date, you'll do it, date is coming, etc. Please.
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The fact the MIL defended him is very telling.
Getting kids involved in your fights is also a red flag.
She flipping out and saying she's been unhappy for 5 years and she is leaving tells us its not just about the snipping. Maybe she is in a bad time / depression / anything from the hardships of 2 kids in quick succession, and staying at home for all that time. It is hard for my family too.
Why did I have to scroll this far to see PPD mentioned. That was my first consideration.
Ya depression post partum depression works in mysterious ways. It could be hitting her now, some women kinda repress it especially two kids quick you basically don’t have time to be depressed.
This kinda happened with my wife, we have a 1 and 3 yo, she didn’t deal with much after the first and I sucked for a few months after our 2nd due a big job change and just went into a rut. She was basically doing everything cuz I was a mess for a few months after baby 2. Everything is good now with me and our life but my wife is struggling and we talk about it and she honestly thinks it’s post partum depression that is delayed…
As my mother told me when I told her I got my vasectomy, “you can get it reversed” she wants more grandkids and it’s not looking like my only sibling is going to have kids… maybe just have a conversation about that and how you didn’t realize how she felt and you are open to getting it reversed etc just to ease her mind about it.
Trying to convince her to go to therapy could be difficult but it sounds like MIL might be the best option/advocate for this. I know in my situation sometimes me bringing up her going to talk to someone just adds fuel to the fire. You’re the reason I feel like this type of shit. I know she doesn’t feel that way just kinda how it is, it’s really hard in these early years and as dads we get blamed for a lot… Ride the wave, embrace the suck and good luck.
maybe she is but she needs to go get help then cause she is in the wrong here from the details we have. obviously oop could be lieing some or misleading us.
They've been talking about it for a year.
Yeah and from her crazy abusive behavior I can see why. If she was unhappy for 5 years he did the right thing getting snipped.
From how this was written you didn’t tell her at all and just left a note in the table that she may not have seen and didn’t have time to process it
Not exactly.
We spoke at length about before even having the consultation. I was clear I didn’t want more kids and that I wanted a vasectomy to guarantee that. After the first consultation I discussed it with her and decided to get a second consultation because this urologist wanted to give me anesthesia for the procedure, something I wasn’t comfortable with and she suggested I get a second consultation. So I did. There I set the date to coincide when her mom would be in town to help take care of the kids. Her mom changed plans. After she spoke to her friends whose husbands had vasectomies, we figured I would be back on my feet in a day and all will be well.
You're getting down votes but you and I know that if the genders were reversed everyone would be on your side. Your body your choice.
Also, the cursing in public comms and using the kids as a weapon for her anger (regardless of whether it is justified) are très no bueno. Again, if she were the man in this case and doing those things everyone would be saying you're in an abusive relationship. Which you are.
Yea, “hit dad in the nuts?” That’s unhinged
I think the people asking this are not against him per se.
It's just he's made it appear she's only been involved in hypotheticals, and that when it came time to the final decision, it was a one-sided decision and she was blind sided by it, which explains a sudden reaction on her end after the fact.
He uses weasel words throughout to make it sound like it was all above board
As an example he (HE) planned it for when MIL would be in town- making it seem like it was a planned event and the family was involved. But if you read carefully, he just said he chose it to coincide, not even that his wife and he planned it for that date.
I think this was a unilateral decision that affected their family and it may have ruined their marriage. Not the vasectomy itself, but the way it was not a family decision.
Attending two different consultations and discussing the outcomes of said consultations is not “hypothetical”
The weasel words were a huge red flag for me too, I noticed them immediately. I think you are right.
I have an infant and 3 y.o. at home and taking a night off to watch movies right now just seems like a stretch. Yes we all need personal time but with kiddos under 3 it's very hard.
Whether or not the OP did this well, I also think PPD could be a factor.
Does he have bodily autonomy or not? You are writing as if he is not allowed to have it.
This is no different from a dead bedroom situation where a wife tells her husband that she is no longer interested in having sex, end of discussion. If she has bodily autonomy in that situation, why can’t you give him bodily autonomy to make this decision unilaterally. Just as no one is entitled to sex, no one is entitled to their spouse’s ability to make a baby.
So after the second consultation, Dec 8th, either you
(A) did
Or
(B)did not
verbally confirm with your wife, face to face, uninterrupted, the date and time of your definite vasectomy and that it was 100% happening.
Post it note does not count. Might as well have tapped it out in Morse.
And you had this verbal physical confirmation of mutual understanding prior to Christmas?
Telling her with less than a week's notice, when you easily could have done it 5 weeks earlier also does not count.
A. Told her the minute I got back from the consultation.
Hopefully Zzzaxx gets some closure from this answer
Where were you 4 hours ago!?!
Fuck I've wasted so much time on this stupid shit.
Sorry about the divorce.
Edit: im really not sure of how you can fix this, but 5 years of unhappiness is possible, but not always apparent at the time. If you want to fix it, go to therapy with her. Just listen and try your best to hear it with an open mind and resist the urge to get super defensive. You aren't opponents you're working toward the same end.
I mean he went as far as coordinating with MIL I don’t think you’re totally as right as you think you are either
You're probably right, but it's weird how OP has been tip-toeing around the question. It makes me think we're not getting the full story.
No. He planned it when he knew she'd be in town.
Then MIL plans changed. Why would MIL change plans for that type of crucial support? Maybe she didnt know she'd been volunteered for it.
You're giving him too much credit. Read all his replies again, read for the weasel words. Look for where he says that he told her about A. Then B,C D happened. He never gave us a timeline of when he had a direct conversation about the procedure schedule.
Also, maybe you didnt see this
Per OP: "Told her on Thanksgiving I wanted to go in for a consultation. Went in to my first consultation December 3rd. Second consultation December 8th. Set the appointment for January 9th. It wasn’t marked on the calendar but the date was written on a post it note on top of the kitchen table up until the day of. I kept no secrets from her."
Op keeps not answering this specific part lol
Everyone is out to give hum the benefit but he won't answer the question. Conflict avoidance much?
Yeah this is either a yes or no question that he doesn't seem to be willing to answer...
Imagine being very involved with the planning process of the procedure, down to getting advice from friends with husbands that got vasectomies, then losing your mind cause you weren’t verbally told the date and you tell your kid to punch his dad in his injured ballsack
I’m trying to humor your point, but you’re making her sound unhinged and illiterate if she can’t handle a post it note
I can’t believe post it notes are being compared to MORSE CODE omg????
Again, unreliable narrator.
He said he wrote 'the date' on a post it note, not 'getting my vasectomy friday 1/9 9am'
He assumed she saw it sometime over the course of a month, but never had a verbal check in on it... over a month? Really? Especially if shes on board, this makes no sense. Oh hun, just remember I need you to drive me down for the snip on Friday
OP didn't and won't reply to questions about how and when she learned the procedure was scheduled.
So, what makes more sense?
A) OP is selectively sharing details because he avoided an uncomfortable conversation with his wife and doesn’t want to own it, while also laying the groundwork for full custody, no child support, no alimony, etc by making his wife seem unstable.
Or
B) Wife was fully and intimately involved and on board with the decision right up until she woke up the day afterward, when she then suddenly feels the mutually agreed upon action is grounds for divorce? (Assuming OPs narrative on her response is 100% accurate too)
It sounds like there was no ‘now or never’ conversation before the operation
Even if she were supportive of it, this should have been a ‘big day’ fixture in your calendar with your wife fully involved.
If neither of these were the case, I think this relationship was probably over some time ago.
Why are you so hellbent on making OP the bad guy here?
What was her position on the matter? That is never clear or indicated in any of these posts,
Yes, she was aware of your consultations but was she fully aware of the scheduled procedure? You dodged that part entirely.
Getting a vasectomy isn't something you just leave a note about on the fridge or the kitchen table my guy.
That's a lot of "I," and not too much "we."
I support your choice to get a vasectomy. You are entitled to make that choice.
I don't support you pretending it was a family decision, when it was a "me" decision. It was a big decision , you don't get to act like a victim.when someone affected by the decision has a reaction. Again, your body your choice. Her family, her grief.
Both of you are allowed to experience this differently.
Dude, you're 100% in the wrong here.
So you told her about the consultation, which is not the same as I'm definitely having the snip, and then relied on a post partum sahm of 2 under 2 to see and understand a fucking post it note letting her know you're going ahead with it? No conversation over the last month, couldnt find a time to chat about it? Mention it? Casually joke about it? Make sure she got the note?
What you should have done is have a face to face discussion with your wife and partner as to a pretty fucking major life decision. Ultimately, it's your decision, but to intentionally leave her out of the loop until she couldnt really do anything about it? Pure cowardice. Then to play it up to the internet about your crazy wife ran off with your kids?
Definitely restart that therapy buddy and this time tell the whole story.
Sure, having a face to face conversation is important and the adult thing to do in a vacuum, but calling OP a coward is pretty heartless.
It sounds like OPs wife is extremely immature. If we're to take this information at face value, telling her kids to hit him on the balls after a vasectomy, saying "fuck him" on a group chat with her mom, saying that she was unhappy for five years while he was taking care of her physically, emotionally, financially. I'm not sure having an adult conversation is possible. She sounds like a fucking brat.
Sounds like OP is better off without her tbh. Really sucks for the kids, though.
WTF? You are making things up.
Per OP
"Told her on Thanksgiving I wanted to go in for a consultation. Went in to my first consultation December 3rd. Second consultation December 8th. Set the appointment for January 9th. It wasn’t marked on the calendar but the date was written on a post it note on top of the kitchen table up until the day of. I kept no secrets from her."
You're reading a whole book in that paragraph that doesn't exist.
Well i asked for clarification, but OP won't pick A or B,
Jesus dude. You don’t inform a spouse about something as big as this with a Post-It note.
I been married for 19 and with the same woman for 26. This has nothing to do with the vecsetomy. Zero, theres something else or someone else. The keyword is unhappy for X amount of years. That usually an excuse for other shit. I would let her leave then pop up at the vacation house with flowers at a weird time don’t tell her you’re coming.
Okay but did you ever have a conversation specifically that you were going to get a vasectomy?
Still takes two to tango
please do not start guess blaming OP for this. this story is close to abusive partner/DV already, and the entire story is him communicating and her turning on a dime.
Right? "If you didn't double-super-explicitly get your partner's persmission in writing you're actually the asshole" would never fly if this were a conversation about a woman's choices regarding her body and reproductive capacity.
totally and the "yeah but still"ing of it's his body is super gross.
what would we (correctly) call a man doing this to his wife after she made medical decisions about her body? what if he was verbally abusive and taking away the kids too? what if he was turning the kids against her and encouraging his kids to hit her on surgery scars?
This is what I hate about reddit. Like people will find a hole in any story they want. They aren't OP and don't live his life, yet will call him an asshole, etc based on 4 paragraphs.
"Coming up on a year from that now and ever since then we have been in agreement that we were “two and through ....Around Thanksgiving I told her I was ready to have my procedure. We agreed that our family was now complete and after all she had been through, I don’t want the onus to be on her to close that door. "
and those quotes are before her verbal abuse and telling the kid to hit OP in the balls (WTF)
and somehow this post fishing for reasons to blame OP and lots of the child responses outright blaming OP are the top posts.
what the hell is happening to daddit when this crap is voted to the top? She's being an abusive ass this isnt hard dudes.
Gee Dan…
Hope all improves op
OOP's second sentence in his third paragraph does a lot of heavy lifting.
That conversation could have been steamrolled very easily.
Ultimately though it's his body his choice. If my wife told me she was getting her tubes tied tomorrow before a second kid, I can object but it's her body her choice and I'd support her as best I can because I love her and my family.
Edited: added 2nd sentence
Yes, "their body their choice". But a couple is also a team and a team should communicate and regardless of who's body it is the other partner has the right to have a say even if ultimately it's not decisive.
Allowing your partner to say "I would rather you did/did not do that" doesn't remove any autonomy from you or your body. It's just basic respect.
Yeah, anyone just saying “his body his choice” isn’t thinking it through rationally. Yes it’s his body, but they are a partnership and as the only person in the world that shares the parenting role with OP, his wife should have been fully aware and completely included in every step of the process.
There's nothing to directly indicate she wasn't.
And even if OP is leaving out some details, NONE of that would justify his wife's actions.
I think you'll find that this won't have much traction within the relationship if you consider the implications of what I'm saying. If OOP cares about his marriage, he'll need to consider whether he steamrolled the conversation. He could have easily waited longer to suss out whether her silence or passive agreement was legitimate acquiescence.
That's a fair and reasonable rebuttal. OP seems self aware enough in his comments that I'd be surprised if it was a total steamroll.
Based on other comments I think hormones/PPD is the most likely cause.
Or the other person could have communicated with their husband. I agree that it's good to over communicate but obviously if one partner says "I'm getting the snip" and the other partner stays quiet, I could be a better husband by ensuring her silence is agreement but if she doesn't say anything at the end of the day that's on her. The old saying is "I'm not a mind-reader".
Obviously doesn't change anything for OP if him or her wife are to blame specifically here but worth highlighting.
Your intuition was right
Per OP "Told her on Thanksgiving I wanted to go in for a consultation. Went in to my first consultation December 3rd. Second consultation December 8th. Set the appointment for January 9th. It wasn’t marked on the calendar but the date was written on a post it note on top of the kitchen table up until the day of. I kept no secrets from her."
If this is all true and you discussed it beforehand, then this sounds like a mental health crisis. Especially with how she’s lashing out to other family members. Try to ask her to see a therapist.
If she doesn’t agree, start documenting all the verbal/text abuse and a get a good lawyer.
Sorry you’re dealing with this, man.
I relate to this story. Sometimes pregnancy can really mess up someone’s hormones. Post partum depression is no joke. My wife is very caring and chill. But after our first, she got mean. For months. It’s like she was a different person. She was rude in our own relationship, but then started to vent in a local mom group that a yell at her all the time and I never help with anything and all this stuff that wasn’t true. It was significant enough that another mom reached out to my boss and told them to fire me. I do nearly all household tasks, more than half of the chores, I take care of her really well and I’m the primary caregiver of our kids because I work remotely.
I was baffled. She said she just needed someone to sympathize with her. I thought I did, and we were the team. It did start to get better after that. Eventually completely back to normal. After our second/third, the meanness came back, but not to the same extent and eventually went away again.
I really relate to you OP. My wife might have made a similar choice if she didn’t have the presence of mind at key moments. People tell themselves stories and get wrapped up in those narratives.
It's also very stressful just having a baby. Can happen with either parent where you get so stressed you start feeling like the whole world is on your shoulders even when the reality is a 50/50 split. There were times both my wife and I at the exact same time had the perception that we were carrying the whole burden.
You don’t ask her to see a therapist. You offer to go together.
sounds like oop did
Marriage counseling might not be the kind of therapy she needs right now though.
And sometimes they still say no, then call 911 to try to have you arrested for an assault that never happened, then take off with your kid for months while you wait on the courts for an "emergency" child custody order and divorce proceedings to start.
OP document everything you can.
Oof. Yeah thats a nightmare scenario.
Details are definitely missing. When I was getting mine we talked about it many times. From “shoot not excited about this..” to “the sheet says I should wear this to operation, whats your thoughts?”
I’ll never understand relationships where guys are “blindsided” by the woman so bad they go on reddit to talk about it. Wife and I talk about calendars, finances, kids, future goals like every week.
Sometimes it seems people are just roommates that stumbled into marriage from these posts.
Because people who communicate effectively with their spouse very rarely have to turn to the internet for advice or support.
Most of the issues posted here can be taken to either an issue with communication (at various stages of the relationship)
Evergreen comment. The only real answer for 99% of Reddit advice posts is “what did the other person say when you discussed this with them” but we all know if they were communicating effectively (or even half way) they wouldn’t be asking Reddit for advice.
If she’s leaving why let her take the kids out of your home? They are as much yours as hers, if she wants to leave fine but kids need to stay home.
This. Especially if she's this unhinged rn. I've heard alot of horror stories that start like this of kids being harmed by their mother to get back at the dad.
It sounds like she is the childcare. If she left the kids with him, he couldn't go to work.
Not that I condone her leaving with the kids, if at all, as she seems to be acting impulsively right now. Just adding some perspective.
This behavior is very certainly not the result of you getting a vasectomy. Much more likely there is an undisclosed issue, and recent events surfaced them. Any other event also might have.
Sorry for your troubles, friend. Start documenting everything for your own sake, and work on trying to repair your marriage if you still think it’s salvageable. I don’t know what state you are in, but custody can be impacted by leaving the family home, etc. Please get good advice from your therapist, lawyer, etc. and remember that your kids come first in everything.
Absolutely. Apart from my job, all I’m focused on are my kids right now.
I’ve taken screenshots of the texts. Meeting with my therapist should help.
Above all, I’m trying to keep a level head. Not giving into her baiting me into fighting. And staying sober.
Good man 💪
The most jarring part is when she tells your kid to punch you in the balls, wtf. Getting by on a single income is a huge blessing, how ungrateful is your wife? - sheesh. I don’t know how you speak with each other before but it definitely crosses a line.
Yeah this part was so jarring for a moment I thought it was a joke post then I realized it isn’t…
Literally the second that happens, I'm kicking her ass out the house or calling the cops. I'd be recording the entire time. It's so ridiculously manipulative to also have the kids be a vehicle of violence towards the other parent. She's a manipulative loser and HAS to go.
She's mentally unstable right now. She's not okay and needs help. Bipolar maybe or something else.
Bipolar disorder does run in her family. Her estranged sister suffered from this.
DO NOT LET HER TAKE THE KIDS TO THE LAKE HOUSE ALONE.
DO NOT LET HER TAKE THE KIDS IF YOU'RE NOT THERE.
Can't stress this enough. Even if your mil says she'll watch the kids, the risk is too high.
u/caligaris_cabinet
This. People will say you're jumping the gun or taking extreme measures when you become defensive over the concern that your partner may hurt your children, but when someone shows signs of having some sort of psychotic break you should never gamble the safety of your children on benefit of doubt or faith.
Without a court order she can't separate the children from the father without his consent. If she wants to go to the lake house and soul search, let her go. But the kids stay with the parent not showing signs of some sort of mental health crisis.
Thank you. The worst case situation here is a one way door nobody should have to walk through. Better be called an asshole than lose the kids
Reminded me of Shutter Island with this. :0
I was thinking the same thing. She doesn't seem to be stable enough to take care of kids if she tries to push a child to hit the father.
Have a buddy dealing with this, no matter what do NOT give up the kids. If you voluntarily give up physcial custody of them you have no idea when you might get it back. Unless you are being actively violent the police can't take them from you either, if she wants to take the kids from you she needs a judge to order it under an enforceable custody agreement.
I repeat once you let her take them you have NO control over how long it takes to get to see them again. My buddy hasn't seen his kid since September. He didn't hit her, he made the mistake of letting her "go to her brothers for the weekend" and then got thrown out of his own house.
Im still traumatized over the last guy who came on here with a story about how his wife was suddenly losing it and then she took the kids
Guess I'm not the only one who saw Dear Zachary
Could also be Postpartum Rage, look it up and see if the symptoms match up to what you're seeing.
OP, as someone who suffers from the lesser of the two kinds (#2), it turns you into a caricature of yourself that is disconnected from the bad decisions you make now and the lifelong consequences you face later. It’s only until it’s too late do the consequences have any meaning.
It’s why people like us only are one episode away from ruining live(s) if we don’t seek help and get it under control. Sometimes this involves an involuntary hold or other “extreme” medically necessary action that a normal person wouldn’t have to deal with.
Going to hard agree with the folks saying not to let her take the kids. As someone with treated and managed bipolar, and with it in my family, do not. While some folks like myself do not have "crazy" moments beyond spiraling depression and extreme risk-taking behaviors/irresponsibility, some have full blown psychosis or tendencies towards violence at their worst. She needs to speak with a mental health professional. The challenge is that she's not done anything yet that would justify a hold, and it sounds like things will come to a head over the kids.
Do you trust your MIL/in-laws enough to have a frank conversation with her/them and explain that you're worried about how out of character this is? It might help to bring in some support.
Holy shit dude, absolutely do not let her take the kids to a lake house alone. This information just took the situation from "confusing" to "possible emergency mental health crisis". You're recovering from surgery, find a way to get someone else in the house (family, friend, whoever) while you talk to her about this, and don't let her leave with the kids to go anywhere.
Just a note: you need a systemic analysis to eliminate organic sources, it could easily be a hormonal disbalance. Id you only have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Psychiatrists only look from their angle.
And pregnancy is a wild ride for hormones, it could very well be something hormonal. Source: got stuck with adhd, ended up being hypothyroidism. It gives almost identical symptoms.
Yeah that is a wild 180.
OP was she on hormonal birth control and stopped recently?
No, she was on the copper IUD before we started trying. She admitted she was probably dealing with PPD especially after the last baby but never tried to seek help outside her mom’s group.
u/caligaris_cabinet I would check in with her mom and ask her mom to go to the lake house too. I wouldn't trust her with the kids solo with PPD and this anger at you.
Absolutely this 110%. She shouldn’t be alone with the kids at a lake house of all places while going through what seems to be PPD and/or some other mental health crisis.
She’s in Texas. We’re in Illinois. The house is vacant.
Brother for the safety of your kids, make her.
Then she should go to the lake house solo without the kids
Well, if they own a lakehouse, they have money for plane tickets.
That or ask your wife to leave the kids with you so she can relax and have time to think.
Then she can't take the kids.
To me, but I'm just another dad, it does sound maybe like a PPD/PPA. Maybe try to consult with a doctor yourself, if you can get your hands on a good one?
Maybe not a full 180. She has issues with both families. I wonder if there is anyone she doesn't have issues with?
Saying she has bipolar disorder based on a few sentences on the internet is wild man
That’s what I was thinking if OP’s account is accurate. To go from 0-100 like that reminds me of bipolar behavior… not fun
How old is baby? My PPD got 1000X worse around 9-10 months. It can take some time for it to “kick in.” That being said, I wasn’t outright cursing and cruel, but it can manifest many different ways. But you don’t deserve this verbal abuse. I would ask her to get therapy and couples counseling, if she doesn’t agree then is really look into separation as she works stuff out. NONE of this is your fault (from what I’ve read).
That’s about the age of baby.
I empathize with her. I really do. It’s not easy and I’ve tried my best to be caretaker and husband to her, including encouraging her to seek help. Her excuse was that it cost too much or that she didn’t have time for it.
Therapy is a lot cheaper than divorce
Buy once cry once. OP said they have a marriage councilor but wife is electing not to go. OP is going to his. So sure, it’s less expensive until you add all of it ON TOP of divorce. She’s had issues for five years? Sure, sometimes it gets better, but not usually.
She’s crossed a lot of lines. Talking shit to the kids, telling the kid to hit him seriously or not, that fucks kids up. It’s unforgivable.
Sometimes when we have quibbles and I bring up couples therapy I’ll drop this line, only to be met back with a “…for you”. My wife is fierce 😂
This sounds textbook PPD to me. So good news if so: it's not who she is and can be come back from. Fight to get her help my friend.
100% check for PPD and other mental health breaks.
My wife didn't hit PPD until 9-10 months and it lasted 3-4 months for both pregnancies. First time caught us off guard, we knew to be prepared the 2nd time. We were also 2 under 2.
Her doctor also said many women don't 100% recover from everything pregnancy related until 2 years, both physically and mentally. Hormones are still erratic, that pregnancy dog is still lingering, etc.
You might need to get your wife to therapy or a doctor.
I was also thinking she could have felt steam rolled even if that wasn’t what OP actually did.
I hate being pregnant, have terribly long labors and we’d always agreed to 2 children. Our second also had to have surgery on his skull at 3 months old. It was rough and I pushed hard for a vasectomy while I was pregnant/early postpartum. Then about a week before the appointment, I saw it on the calendar and tried to discuss it and my husband laughed it off and said he was going. I’m sure my husband would say it was long settled but I was pregnant/postpartum and when I tried to bring it up later it’s like his brain couldn’t process that information or discuss it because it was long settled for him. And I was the one to push the vasectomy while pregnant/postpartum.
Anyway, I don’t think it was OPs fault either if they had discussed it, just like I don’t think it’s my husbands fault. It was long settled. And obviously having another kid is 2 yeses. I’m just explaining how I could see her feeling steam rolled even if she wasn’t exactly. I hope that makes sense and might provide clarity.
ETA: I don’t know how the holidays are for their family but for mine it was essentially a whirlwind of prep, planning, cooking, cleaning, decorating, hosting, attending events and making it special for the kids with a big smile on my face. The holidays are one of my heaviest mom times. Which might add to it. I’ve just felt back to normal this week.
Jumping in to back up BrooBu. 9-10m was when things got dark for my PPD too. I look back and hardly recognise myself tbh. All the best for you and your family OP.
This sounds wildly unstable. Do not let her take the kids to the lake house.
After this, you should have been the one to reevaluate the marriage when she started berating and name-calling you and encouraging your young child to be violent. Absolutely unacceptable.
You should take control of the situation and remove yourself instead of waiting for her to make a decision. She obviously needs help mentally, but that behavior isn't okay. Document everything as it happens because you will likely need to hire a lawyer.
Im not saying this is the same thing, but my ex-wife pressured me into getting a vasectomy, was never was intimate with me after that, and divorced me within six months. There’s other stories like this. I can’t explain why some do it but I know they do.
My wife pressured me to get one for almost a year, I finally gave in and got it, and a few months after is when she was convinced she'd be better off without me, got abusive and wanted to get a divorce until it was time to sign the paperwork. We sort of worked it out, but things will never be the same. So here I am with a sore left nut for the rest of my life and trust issues.
I'm a lady, and hopefully not insane, but here's my best interpretation...
She was unhappy, she doesn't want more kids, but she also doesn't want him to go and have more kids with his next partner, ensuring that their kids are now his only kids.
So she bottles up that crazy until right after the procedure and then she's clear for a divorce with no half siblings for her kids in the future?
It's certainly a possibility, but vasectomies can be reversible.
For 10X the cost and no guarantee, yeah.
The snip was the right call.
I say this as a guy who considered it after kid 2, wanted to after kid 3, got the info and the bringing the pamphlet home brought on hellfire. Tricked into kid 4, she stopped using BC.
After the birth she got her tubes tied. I found out she was cheating after youngest turned one, and believed some whopper lies in that time, so I left her.
I think some misguided partners believe adding a kid (or the potential to) can fix things or makes it better. It just makes divorce harder. Kinda like going to college forever delays someone’s responsibilities.
I also think more women cheat, or want the option to, than society and guys believe. If you’re snipped and she gets pregnant, things get real complicated quick or you need to believe “it’s some miracle.”
Damn crazy story mate, hope life's settled down for you now.
As someone who became a teenage dad since my gf at the time lied at birth control - I think there should be some criminal penalty for it. It kinda feels adjacent to stealthing, or lying about having an STD or something.
That’s reproductive coercion.
Yup it sounds like OP’s wife (and yours) just wanted to make sure you’ve closed up shop before ditching you, just to make sure you can’t find another woman and start a new family without them.
Manipulative assholes often play the long game.
Did your wife get checked out for Post Partum depression after your second child?
This very much sounds like your wife has some mental health challenges which could have stemmed from PPD and your getting a Vasectomy could have been the trigger to set her off.
She did a screening with a psychiatrist shortly after her c-section and has been going to moms group roughly once a week.
How short is shortly? In my admittedly limited experience, you're more likely to see the symptoms a year after than you are a week out normally it's months.
Damn brother, that’s a huge 180°.
It almost sounds like she was just “agreeing” to having a complete family and didn’t want to break it to you that she wanted more kids. Regardless, the way she lashed out at you and her family isn’t acceptable behavior.
Honestly speaking, I would NOT let her take the kids anywhere by herself. PPD can be a bitch, and I’m sorry but I would be doing everything in my power to make sure my kids would be safe.
I saw she had an IUD placed, and it very well could be that this is all being caused by some crazy hormonal shifts, and she needs help. She needs a mental health evaluation or even therapy/counseling. I would bring that up ASAP. If she’s not game for that, I’d honestly consider involuntary psychiatric holds if she escalates.
Hey Op, lurking mom here. Not trying to give medical advice but if she just had an IUD placed, is it a copper IUD? If so, it may not be a bad idea to have her checked for Wilson Disease. The copper is unable to be processed in the body and can accumulate in the brain and cause psychotic type episodes.
I think your wife has some Strong Postpartum and has some deep physiological issues. She needs therapy more than anything
That tough.
Something tells me your marriage was already ruined though.
Taking you at your word you were both in solid agreement that you were done at 2 kids, this sounds a bit like post partum rage
Before saying this, I want to make it super clear that it's not a justification of any of your wife's behaviors or my own. It may not apply at all but maybe part of it does.
Very early in my marriage I knew there were things I was unhappy with. But there was always a next thing, always a plan for where life was headed, always the idea that if you stick with something and do your best, it will work out and you'll be happy.
We had two kids (the most amazing fucking things in the world) and both pregnancies were rough on my wife, I loved parenting but it was extremely mentally rough for me, especially the partnership between my wife and I. We knew we were done at 2 and I got a vasectomy. About the same time I finished up the last part of myself schooling and was kind of at the end of the line as far as progress on my career goes.
Suddenly there wasn't a next thing. My life, as far as the major pieces, was pretty much all there. There wasn't any more "well just do (insert milestone here) and then you'll be happy." And it was kind of like, yeah, this is it. This is my what I worked for. What I wanted for both of us. And I'm not happy, and I was never really happy, and it's not what I want anymore.
Went to individual therapy and couples therapy for a year, looking for a way to somehow make myself want it but I just didn't. She is the most important person in the world to me, she has given me the most important things I have, my girls, and she deserves the fucking world. But I can't give it to her if I don't love her.
I guess my point is - if she has been hiding her reality from you, the way I did with my wife, hoping something would change or it would all work out as long as I kept going - then as backwards as it seems that might be part of the reason that right when you think everything should be clicking into place that everything is suddenly falling apart.
Fucking sucks. Wish I had done better. Hope the best for you.
super sorry to hear this man. Where do you think it went wrong? Were you in love with your wife and did you love her when you got married? I am a tiny bit in this boat but i do still feel like i enjoy my wife and have a sustainable relationship but i don’t think I was every over the moon for her even when we were dating although not sure if im the kind of person who would maintain that feeling with someone for very long anyways
PPD is real, and odds are she won't get the medical support she needs without a push from someone not you.
Lawyer up but also try to get her to see someone. 1 in 5 women and 1 in 7 men get diagnosed with PPD. It's common.
Especially for people who have no experience or coping mechanisms to recognize and deal with depression, it can ruin lives.
Somewhat related.
My wife of 9 years (partner of 16 years) told me she wanted a divorce the day after Thanksgiving. She told me she had been unhappy for... 9 years. "right BEFORE we got married", she says. She blamed me for her alcoholism and said once she moved out she would be able to stop. Welp, she's been on her own for 5 weeks. Guess who's still drinking?
She also refused to try and "work it out" in any way.
We are currently in mediation.
Head up. Good luck.
Protect your kids and demand she seek a medical evaluation, you would only be trying to help her get better mentally. You can no longer go about your day as normal, protect your kids no matter what. If she loses her mind over ppd well she can stay with her parents, that is not your problem. Change whatever you have to in your life, job, hours, whatever
Whatever you do, do not let her take the kids. Get a lawyer involved if you have to. But if she leaves with the kids now, it makes keeping them in the future harder.
I don’t understand why the wife always takes the kids when they leave. Like if you want to leave that’s on you, but don’t disrupt the kids lives more than you already are.
Unpopular take and extremely wild take from deep left field:
Have you checked if they are your kids? She may have been using your fertility as cover to cheat on you and if she got pregnant, hey it’s yours.
Now they you’re sterile; she can’t willfully cheat on you and if she gets pregnant, her cover is blown.
Otherwise I have never seen or read about this kind of response from women after a vasectomy.
The stories I’m reading from others just astounds me.
Damn man, I’m sorry. I hope it gets better for you.
If shes had a kid within the last year are you sure she isn't going through postpartum? My wife had it after the 3rd one and in the middle of it all of it she asked for a divorce but I didn't take it seriously and chuckled. Knew something was off because she wasn't herself. I told her to go get therapy and she did. We're fine to this day.
This is not actually about the snip. There are absolutely either unresolved issues or she is going through some mental/emotional difficulties.
Any chance she’s having an affair? and now that your sterile any pregnancy would be proof of the affair.
edit to add: She picked you up after the procedure, right? did she drop you off as well? I mean she must have been curious why you couldn't drive yourself.
Whatever this is it wouldn’t have helped to add a kid to the mix..
DO NOT LET HER TAKE YOUR KIDS MAN
I'm wondering if she was planning on just being a SAHM forever, and with you getting a vasectomy, she realized that the gravy train has a time limit.
Sorry, kinda sounds like she’s a bit of a shit. Best of luck with whatever is next.
That’s rough buddy.
I’m guessing the logical part of her brain also didn’t want more kids, but emotionally/subconsciously she imagined a big family. Couple that with postpartum/hormone soup and the stress of 2 kids under two (been there) and the picnic is ruined.
I doubt she wants to blow up the marriage. She probably doesn’t know what she is feeling and should talk to someone professionally.
I recommended responding with patience and grace (~1 year or so) and allow her the time to get better. Logical factual statements like “we agreed to this” will not help the relationship (even though you are right).
People seldom get better overnight and it will require time.
That’s the optimistic take I suppose. And if it was just that I’d rest a little easier. Her saying she’s been unhappy for 5 years (nearly half our relationship) that’s not something I can overlook. You can’t put that genie back in the bottle.
As a relationship coach (for women) we tell our clients all the time that their happiness is their responsibility. Nobody else can “make you happy,” they can only add to the happiness that you’ve already created for yourself. But if you don’t know what makes you happy then nobody can do it for you.
Our first recommendation is always to focus on self care… for a woman to find things that make her happy (it’s amazing how many of us completely forget what these are!) and do at least 3 per day. You can’t make her do this but you can help with the kids to support her to have the time and energy to take care of herself.
Hey OP. I have said some terrible things when I was not right mentally from my cursed hormones. I have never meant any of it. The worst of it was when my daughter was near 1. There is hope she wasn't truly unhappy for 5 years. Just in case you needed a little hope. My daughter is 4 now and I'm doing great. My marriage survived. We're still besties despite the mean things we said in the heat of the moment. Don't give up just yet!
She’s been unhappy but willingly had sex with you to produce children? Yeah I call bs. Sounds like she’s manic
I've been through relationship stuff with my wife and counseling. This is just my two cents, but my relationship got better when I stood my ground more, when I did point out "we agreed to this", when I did start holding my wife accountable a bit more. So while you may be right, there are a lot of different situations out there. Really depends on the people and relationship.
Either we're not hearing the whole story, or she is an actual crazy person. You would know better than any of us.
Residual hormones can make normal people crazy until they level off again. Still, this seems to have uncovered some either unknown or ignored resentment.
I’m sorry you’re going through this brother, this is literally my worst nightmare. Hopefully it’s a storm that passes, she needs to have communicated her issues much more clearly and that’s on her. Especially as other people have mentioned - it’s reversible and not the end of the world.
As far as I know, vasectomies can be reversed. Not sure how feasible that is on your one-income-two-kid household, but there is a choice if it is such a big deal for her. Of course it should be pointed out that such operations are not to play around with so she has to decide if she wants you V-ed up or not.
The rest of the stuff? Sounds like a mix of unresolved issues and mental health troubles.
Not an expert by any means but, as described, the time frames, relationship with both families, even telling her 2yo to hit you in the nuts after a procedure.... idk brother. Doesn't sound normal to me.
I can't help but think that this wouldn't be tolerated if the genders were reversed. What happened to his body his choice? I'm sure we all agree that if a woman doesn't want another child, we would all respect that decision.
My wife was kinda like this too. Not to this extreme, but she held a grudge and would bring it up whenever she felt like being passive aggressive. Once our second/final child was diagnosed with autism she hasn’t brought it up since. I wouldn’t hope for that though…
Sorry you're going through this dude. Reading the title I thought you were saying the vasectomy ruined your marriage. The reality is, your wife has
Your body your choice. If your wife decided to get her tubes tied or hysterectomy. There is nothing you can do about it. I got my vasectomy and my wife wasn’t thrilled about it.
I’ve never had a partner call me an asshole or shithead, and if I ever do they wouldn’t be my partner anymore. WTF.
Well tell her she can leave to get some perspective and think, but that she cant take the kids. That would be my way of doing this.
You have the right to leave, but you dont have the right to take the kids from their dad
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These comments are crazy, why is everyone so hung up on a damn post it note? I forgot women can’t read
You either didn't discuss this as fully as you thought, or she's having a psychotic break, or theres some missing information here
Sounds like she has a little postpartum after the 2nd kid. My wife was fundamentally crazy after our second kid. I just put up with it for like 2 years and stopped her from doing anything but extreme. She’s fine now.
This seems like a major red flag in her shift in behavior, assuming you two were communicating about the procedure like you should have been.
Encouraging your kids to injure you while you are recovering from any procedure is pretty fucked up. And a group text with her saying f you? What the hell. Is there a history of mental illness? Kind of seems like she’s having a metal health crisis to flip that fast and actually try to physically harm you.
How come “my body my choice” doesn’t apply here? If it was the opposite situation and she had decided to get the snip and you were unhappy about it people would be eating you alive.
This needs a TLDR
I'm so sorry to hear your story.
It really doesn't sound like the snip is the root cause here but what do I know.
I hope you can recover from the problems, what a tragic situation.
I'll keep you in prayers tonight.
Is there a chance you can maybe call MIL and have a chat and ask her if she understands what's going on?
Surely having another child would have made everything great though!
Not to make light OP, but I am trying to bring home the point that is obvious to many commenters: that there is a deeper rift here. I suspect she was carrying a lot of resentment already, had some unresolved feelings around kids and the marriage that she is pinning on the vasectomy, and the actual event of it either triggered an episode or she is using it as a pretext to unload that resentment on you.
Stay cool, do as much therapy as you can get traction on, ride it out, and see if things cool down. Consider reaching out to her people and telegraphing concern. This isn’t like her; it might be a post-party type thing and you want to support her; etc. Don’t do anything stupid or anything (else) irreversible.
If it makes you feel any better, I’m about 2 years into riding out a situation myself that isn’t the same but has some things in common with this, and things are going a lot better.
Sorry and best of luck OP.
We had some friends go through something similar, where they on paper agreed to the procedure but afterwards the wife was upset and said she felt pressured to say yes and was considering divorce. They talked it out, got support from family to help pay for the unsnipping procedure, currently have 3 kids and one more on the way.
At the end of the day the wife was grieving the loss of potential future children afterwards and wasn’t really ready to be done.
2 was my perfect number sine I work a lot and we don’t get a lot of family support but my wife wasn’t ready to be done having kids, so now we have 3 (with our “wildest” being our youngest kid).
I’m sorry, OP, but you need to end this marriage. The minute she told your two year old to attack you was the point of no return. That’s abuse, plain and simple. Both to you and to your kid. It’s going to be extremely difficult, but you need to worry about yourself and your kids, and you shouldn’t tolerate abuse in any shape or form. It’s only going to continue or get worse.
she’s been unhappy for five years and thinks another kid will solve that.
Sounds like the vasectomy was needed either way. If this is here reaction, maybe it's best not to have more children even if she wanted them
She needs post-partum mental health help and a diagnosis. Sorry this is happening to you both. Try to maintain grace for her.
Don’t let her leave with the kids. She can leave by herself.
Lurking mom- your wife is in some sort of BIG mental health trouble. This is genuinely scary behavior from her and she needs help. Don't let her take your kids out of the home, offer to go to a therapist or crisis counselor with her. Call 988 for guidance from the crisis talkline if you're in the US.
I am so, so sorry you're going through this. Something is wrong and even if there are unresolved feelings about having more kids, that's "let's get into marriage counseling" or "we need to Talk" territory, not asking your 2yo to hurt you, going off in group texts, talking about divorce. This is not your fault. It's likely not her fault either, but she does need immediate help. Good luck 💜
lawyer up
Your wife sounds extremely toxic and I doubt this is the first time she’s acted this way about something
She might be going through postpartum psychosis/depression or bpd. Probably want to talk to her Dr about that.
Its your body it's your choice. She's being an absolute prick here and why would you let someone treat you this way? Get rid, she sounds awful.
To me, the first thing that popped into my head is some late post-partum situation. 2 kids in 2 years seems like it could do that. My wife, who never had any sort of mental illness, was not well a month or two after giving birth to our twins. A conversation, a quick prescription, and some sleep cured everything.
While your situation isn't good right now - all may not be lost. See if you can get her to talk to a professional.
If she is that upset about you removing the possibility of having more kids (after some discussion), imagine how upset she would be if you accidentally did have another.
Something else is going on here.
Just Imagine if she made a decision about her body, and you acted like that. JFC she needs therapy
Document document document!
Something else is up. It’s either a mental health issue that needs to be addressed or she has issues she had been hiding and is trying to bait you into becoming the problem. The name calling and attempting to get the kids involved in some way does NOT give me the warm and fuzzies. Keep in touch with both sides of the family for support. Don’t name call, don’t paint her in a bad light, just keep them and yourself involved for her and especially the kids.
However, if you even get a whiff of her suggesting abuse go to a lawyer as fast as possible. That shit stream rolls fast and I’ve seen way too many fixable marriages implode with stupid, unfounded allegations from people trying to “win” the situation while emotions were high.