They kinda had to age Bucky up as the idea of a random orphan boy hanging around an Army base and becoming their mascot is a very large amount of horseshit for modern audiences to swallow.
This situation is much easier to accept in Batman's case since he's an individual.
I mean, they could easily had made him a teenager that lied about his age (16/17) but it would be hard to make it work, I think. Hell, they could even have made him an actor that was in the shows when Cap started out.
I can't remember which country it was, but they had an actual monkey do this exact thing. So maybe an orphan boy isn't that big of a stretch. Especially considering a lot of orphanages were literal horror stories from hell back in the day. "Let's see, let him hang around...or go to the orphanage to be repeatedly raped until he dies a violent death on the street or in the gutter? Let's go with the rape/gutter combo. It's the right thing to do." Ffs.
Len Chester, eager to enlist into the British Royal Marines any way he could, earned himself an official spot within the ranks at 14-years-old as a bugle boy. After training, he was stationed at Scapa Flow in Scotland – the main base for their Navy.
Calvin Graham is the youngest soldier to serve in World War 2!
Calvin was 12-years-old when he fought in WW2. Following the events of Pearl Harbor, he enlisted and became a member of the U.S. Navy on August 15, 1942.
Ehh, the boys managed to pull it off, although i dont think the boys version of a mascot to soldier boy was a teenager by that point in time for that flashback sequence
Also, Jim Gordon: "Hey creepy Bat-themed guy with the freaky leather fetish who let's a twelve year old boy in weird short-shorts do fucking somersaults while getting shot at with guns by the henchmen of your co-dependent clown themed nemesis who horribly tortures and murders people seems a little suspicious but....naw. it's okay because you're an individual. Let's be besties." That copium is doing A LOT of work DC fan.
kinda feels like dc did it but never fully leaned into it, like hes there but they dont push him the way marvel pushed bucky. maybe thats why ppl keep asking the question lol
There isn't really any "reinvention" going on because both Jason and Bucky were already partners with history with a hero before being brought back as a tragic failing. Ageing up Bucky only works because he was (at least at the time) Cap's only teenage partner and they already had a brotherly relationship, Jason being made the same age as Bruce changes their entire relationship and the other Robins.
But in the comics Bucky was a young sidekick to Steve Rogers rather than the same age. That's what they changed in the MCU. Rather than being a kid sidekick, he was a friend and fellow soldier.
It was in stages: Originally Bucky was a 13(!)-year old kid kid who became Steve Rogers' sidekick by accidentally finding out his secret identity.
Ed Brubaker, when introducing the Winter Soldier, retconned Bucky as having been at least 17 when he started being Bucky (but having lied about his age to enlist at 16, IIRC), so really only a handful of years younger than Steve (who was IIRC 23 or 24 when he became Cap). The "13-year old" stuff was retconned into having been a cover/propaganda story and Bucky's skillset was expanded on to make him a scout/sniper.
The MCU rewrote the relationship into Bucky and Steve having been lifelong friends.
IMO the same thing wouldn't work with Red Hood. Thanks to Bucky having been gone as long as he was there wasn't decades of characterization reinforcing the notion of Bucky as a kid brother/adopted son. Whereas for the Robins (Ex or otherwise), a huge part of their characters are defined by their link to Batman as a paternal figure.
Yeah. What the fuck is this person even taking about. On a side note, I'm watching season 3 of Titans right now and the Jason Todd story line is one of the biggest pieces of hot garbage I've ever seen. The whole show pretty much is. They think Beast Boy is Shang-Chi or something, it seems Tamaran is a country in Africa not outer space, Connor has all the depth and acting of a fucking brick and the guy playing Nightwing makes me think binge watching paint dry might be a better use of my time. At least the guy playing Gar has a little depth just not sure why he needs to be Joe Kung-Fu. Special effects are expensive? Use a different character. If I didn't have ocd about finishing things I start I would leave the show faster than the chick who played Raven.
Well, like I explained in that entire last sentence of my post, I have a sort of ocd about having to finish things that I started. However, that being said I've knocked out three more episodes and now I'm leaning towards a perverse sort of masochism. Because, fuck me it is God fucking awful. Now it's more like I'm watching a horror flick where the characters are mainly all so bad that I'm rooting for most of them to die horribly. I know it'll never happen, but maybe Nightwing and Jason Todd will kill each other with bad acting.
Brother, Under the red hood is one of the best Batman movies hands down and he has quite a few very enjoyable comics. He’s already appreciated in the same manner as an anti hero.
Anyway I don't think this would work. The whole appeal of Robin is that's he's younger than Batman, it doesn't really work if they're the same age imo.
Bucky's link with Steve and how his death shattered him is what's important in the narrative not Bucky's age.
A large part of Red Hood’s story and character is built on the anger Jason feels towards Batman. Bruce is a father figure to all of the Robins. He is the role model that he didn’t have after losing his parents. Jason is the one Robin he “fails” because he fails to save his life and Jason ultimately goes off the deep end because Batman refuses to kill Joker. In that, it is important that a father/son dynamic is present. It would not work if it were just allies. In Jason’s eyes, he has to feel betrayed and abandoned by his own “father” who cares more about his code than his “son”
The MCU could age up Bucky because his age doesn’t matter to the story at all. Bucky just has to be someone that matters to Steve so when he comes back brainwashed it carries some weight. It doesn’t matter if he’s a little orphan boy or Steve’s lifelong friend and brother in arms.
Also the MCU from the start has mixed comic accurate material with a more realistic edge. The DCU has already started off with a strong lean towards the more comical, out of this world material. I don’t see them feeling the need to make Robin older.
An adult robin doesn’t work at all, and if the plan is to have him in his late 20s by the time he gets resurrected and they adapt UtRH, I’m gonna say no.
Whether you go the route of either him running after Joker and getting killed or dying trying to save his mom after searching for her, both only really work well if he’s during a period where he’s really emotionally or mentally vulnerable like his teens which justifies his reasoning for dying in Africa or impulsively running after Joker in a way that doesn’t make him come across as a total wreck.
Being a teenage sidekick is kinda Robin’s thing; whereas Bucky being a non-powered teenager at war tagging along Captain America never sounded like smart to me
It could, but I feel like Red Hood is known specifically for being the Robin that died. Robins are almost always children or much younger adults than Bruce. Robin being an adult and equal partner to Bruce is kinda strange (I mean it’s less weird morally, I’ll give you that.) Bucky being Cap’s world war 2 best friend and side kick, plays much better into being adult friends than it would with Jason. Plus I feel like Batman has a few characters that are, old friends become kinda enemy/kinda friends characters, like Ghostmaker and Batwoman in the Timverse.
I think a reason it doesn’t work for red hood is because all the robins are written around the idea they were raised by Bruce because he understands their pain and struggles.
You make Jason the same age as Bruce and it changes the story and isn’t exactly the same.
I think with Batman it's better they stay younger for the plot and story telling of his sidekicks, half of the struggle for Batman is that they are kids/teenager. Bucky just kinda worked and made sense to make them both the same age since they both joined the army, it would have been harder for Marvel to pull off Bucky if he was younger imo.
They kinda had to age Bucky up as the idea of a random orphan boy hanging around an Army base and becoming their mascot is a very large amount of horseshit for modern audiences to swallow.
This situation is much easier to accept in Batman's case since he's an individual.
I mean, they could easily had made him a teenager that lied about his age (16/17) but it would be hard to make it work, I think. Hell, they could even have made him an actor that was in the shows when Cap started out.
This is the answer
I can't remember which country it was, but they had an actual monkey do this exact thing. So maybe an orphan boy isn't that big of a stretch. Especially considering a lot of orphanages were literal horror stories from hell back in the day. "Let's see, let him hang around...or go to the orphanage to be repeatedly raped until he dies a violent death on the street or in the gutter? Let's go with the rape/gutter combo. It's the right thing to do." Ffs.
[removed]
Len Chester, eager to enlist into the British Royal Marines any way he could, earned himself an official spot within the ranks at 14-years-old as a bugle boy. After training, he was stationed at Scapa Flow in Scotland – the main base for their Navy.
Calvin Graham is the youngest soldier to serve in World War 2! Calvin was 12-years-old when he fought in WW2. Following the events of Pearl Harbor, he enlisted and became a member of the U.S. Navy on August 15, 1942.
Do you want to use Venmo to pay for the schooling I just gave you?
And MCU Bucky being older is adapted from the Ultimate comic.
Ehh, the boys managed to pull it off, although i dont think the boys version of a mascot to soldier boy was a teenager by that point in time for that flashback sequence
Also, Jim Gordon: "Hey creepy Bat-themed guy with the freaky leather fetish who let's a twelve year old boy in weird short-shorts do fucking somersaults while getting shot at with guns by the henchmen of your co-dependent clown themed nemesis who horribly tortures and murders people seems a little suspicious but....naw. it's okay because you're an individual. Let's be besties." That copium is doing A LOT of work DC fan.
It... already did...?
Yep lol
Right, that’s what happened
kinda feels like dc did it but never fully leaned into it, like hes there but they dont push him the way marvel pushed bucky. maybe thats why ppl keep asking the question lol
How
Bucky debuted as the winter solider in 2004 and was revealed to be the winter solider in 2005.
Jason debuted as Red Hood in 2005
I’d argue it wasn’t a coincidence and both are awesome
But yes, it would be awesome to see Jason on the big screen someday.
That's clearly not what they're talking about.
They're talking about how in the MCU Bucky was the same age as Steve before becoming the Winter Soldier
How hasn't it?
There isn't really any "reinvention" going on because both Jason and Bucky were already partners with history with a hero before being brought back as a tragic failing. Ageing up Bucky only works because he was (at least at the time) Cap's only teenage partner and they already had a brotherly relationship, Jason being made the same age as Bruce changes their entire relationship and the other Robins.
Part of his story is Batman rushing to fill the void left by Dick Grayson so it makes sense he's a similar age to the original Robin
The MCU didn't do that. Barnes came back in the comics books, same as Jason. Which they've both been very popular.
But in the comics Bucky was a young sidekick to Steve Rogers rather than the same age. That's what they changed in the MCU. Rather than being a kid sidekick, he was a friend and fellow soldier.
It was in stages: Originally Bucky was a 13(!)-year old kid kid who became Steve Rogers' sidekick by accidentally finding out his secret identity.
Ed Brubaker, when introducing the Winter Soldier, retconned Bucky as having been at least 17 when he started being Bucky (but having lied about his age to enlist at 16, IIRC), so really only a handful of years younger than Steve (who was IIRC 23 or 24 when he became Cap). The "13-year old" stuff was retconned into having been a cover/propaganda story and Bucky's skillset was expanded on to make him a scout/sniper.
The MCU rewrote the relationship into Bucky and Steve having been lifelong friends.
IMO the same thing wouldn't work with Red Hood. Thanks to Bucky having been gone as long as he was there wasn't decades of characterization reinforcing the notion of Bucky as a kid brother/adopted son. Whereas for the Robins (Ex or otherwise), a huge part of their characters are defined by their link to Batman as a paternal figure.
Yeah. What the fuck is this person even taking about. On a side note, I'm watching season 3 of Titans right now and the Jason Todd story line is one of the biggest pieces of hot garbage I've ever seen. The whole show pretty much is. They think Beast Boy is Shang-Chi or something, it seems Tamaran is a country in Africa not outer space, Connor has all the depth and acting of a fucking brick and the guy playing Nightwing makes me think binge watching paint dry might be a better use of my time. At least the guy playing Gar has a little depth just not sure why he needs to be Joe Kung-Fu. Special effects are expensive? Use a different character. If I didn't have ocd about finishing things I start I would leave the show faster than the chick who played Raven.
Why did you allow yourself to consume three seasons of that, I knew from the first looks of season one it wasn’t going to be good
Well, like I explained in that entire last sentence of my post, I have a sort of ocd about having to finish things that I started. However, that being said I've knocked out three more episodes and now I'm leaning towards a perverse sort of masochism. Because, fuck me it is God fucking awful. Now it's more like I'm watching a horror flick where the characters are mainly all so bad that I'm rooting for most of them to die horribly. I know it'll never happen, but maybe Nightwing and Jason Todd will kill each other with bad acting.
Brother, Under the red hood is one of the best Batman movies hands down and he has quite a few very enjoyable comics. He’s already appreciated in the same manner as an anti hero.
What reinvention do you want?. If Joker doesn't kills him the character doesn't work and neither does with an adult Robin.
how, with such a clear title, are so many of the comments basically "they already made Jason the Red Hood tho"
OP is CLEARLY asking about having him be a similar age in his time as Robin.
Yeah this whole thread is kinda illiterate lmao.
Anyway I don't think this would work. The whole appeal of Robin is that's he's younger than Batman, it doesn't really work if they're the same age imo.
Bucky's link with Steve and how his death shattered him is what's important in the narrative not Bucky's age.
I'd like you to remind me of who Jason used to be, and who he is now.
And then ask that question again.
No shot they age Jason up before he dies.
A large part of Red Hood’s story and character is built on the anger Jason feels towards Batman. Bruce is a father figure to all of the Robins. He is the role model that he didn’t have after losing his parents. Jason is the one Robin he “fails” because he fails to save his life and Jason ultimately goes off the deep end because Batman refuses to kill Joker. In that, it is important that a father/son dynamic is present. It would not work if it were just allies. In Jason’s eyes, he has to feel betrayed and abandoned by his own “father” who cares more about his code than his “son”
The MCU could age up Bucky because his age doesn’t matter to the story at all. Bucky just has to be someone that matters to Steve so when he comes back brainwashed it carries some weight. It doesn’t matter if he’s a little orphan boy or Steve’s lifelong friend and brother in arms.
Also the MCU from the start has mixed comic accurate material with a more realistic edge. The DCU has already started off with a strong lean towards the more comical, out of this world material. I don’t see them feeling the need to make Robin older.
What do you mean MCU reinvented him?
Try to read Brubakers run on Captain America.
It already has
Nope.
This is kind of exactly what happened with Todd a teen thought to be dead come back as older sidekick ..
What year did Cap go on Ice. Like when did the time become so great that they created the ice back story?
No, not really.
An adult robin doesn’t work at all, and if the plan is to have him in his late 20s by the time he gets resurrected and they adapt UtRH, I’m gonna say no.
Whether you go the route of either him running after Joker and getting killed or dying trying to save his mom after searching for her, both only really work well if he’s during a period where he’s really emotionally or mentally vulnerable like his teens which justifies his reasoning for dying in Africa or impulsively running after Joker in a way that doesn’t make him come across as a total wreck.
Being a teenage sidekick is kinda Robin’s thing; whereas Bucky being a non-powered teenager at war tagging along Captain America never sounded like smart to me
Sure, but it would take A WHILE based on the fact they would need to introduce Dick first, have him age up then have him leave as Nightwing.
https://preview.redd.it/7y2wxf4y0y5g1.png?width=630&format=png&auto=webp&s=df45c2e9312197dbe7662dfdfa1e7dbf06aea88d
Thats what Red Hood is. What you just described, is Red Hood.
I'd say no given his current Robin is also a child.
I hope so
TIL this sub can’t ready for shit.
It could, but I feel like Red Hood is known specifically for being the Robin that died. Robins are almost always children or much younger adults than Bruce. Robin being an adult and equal partner to Bruce is kinda strange (I mean it’s less weird morally, I’ll give you that.) Bucky being Cap’s world war 2 best friend and side kick, plays much better into being adult friends than it would with Jason. Plus I feel like Batman has a few characters that are, old friends become kinda enemy/kinda friends characters, like Ghostmaker and Batwoman in the Timverse.
Nah.
I think a reason it doesn’t work for red hood is because all the robins are written around the idea they were raised by Bruce because he understands their pain and struggles.
You make Jason the same age as Bruce and it changes the story and isn’t exactly the same.
No. Jason or any Robin for that matter might grow up to become a peer of Batman's, but they can't start that way.
No completely different they combined 616 an ultimate bucky who is the same age as steve
I think with Batman it's better they stay younger for the plot and story telling of his sidekicks, half of the struggle for Batman is that they are kids/teenager. Bucky just kinda worked and made sense to make them both the same age since they both joined the army, it would have been harder for Marvel to pull off Bucky if he was younger imo.
Dude what? We’re just memory-holing Ed Brubaker? Do you think the winter soldier was just some bright Russo bros idea?
Not even close to what OP said
The MCU didn’t do shit here.
Jesus can none of you read?
No. They can't read. It's frankly kind of funny.
Is OP okay?
Isn’t that what happened?
They did that tho he had a entire comic run with his own team of sorts
What do you mean, it didn’t work with Bucky in the first place.