All sex hormone synthesis originates in the mitochondria, where cholesterol is converted to a sex steroid called pregnenolone from which all other sex steroids are derived. In men, this happens in the testes. In women, it happens in the ovaries, fat cells, skin cells, and adrenal glands.
Ice baths are one of the best things men and women can do to stimulate their mitochondria, and that's why men and women all over the world are reporting big total testosterone boosts from a regular practice of cold water immersion therapy.
Short, freezing cold followed by light exercise works best.
I would like this to be true, I even believe it is true... but... the science is meh at best so far. I've read all the studies and there is some compelling evidence... but there is no directly administered study specific to ice baths and T levels in middle aged men and women. Anecdotal evidence has value to a point, but it's not the same. Why doesn't Morozko Forge recruit 50 or 100 strangers over 40 years of age and set up a test. Seems simple enough. Get T levels checked independently, start a 6 month testing protocol, and then retest T levels. Still wouldn't meet rigorous scientific standards but it would be better than the "it worked for me" statements.
"It worked for me" statements are the BEST kinds of statements. A clinical trial makes no difference to an individual. They have to try it for themselves, but while we're on the topic, what was it about Archey et al. 2019 that you didn't like?
Send me the link to Archery 2019. I'll reread it. I read everything on your site about 10 months ago. I would disagree that "It worked for me" are the best statements, but I'm not arguing they are useless either. I believe anecdotal evidence can be very useful. Most people can relate very well to the experience of others particularly if they find it applicable to themselves. However I would love to see a better study similar to what I outlined above. Of interest I tried to do a study of 1 using myself. I even posted about it here. Unfortunately due to life circumstances I was not able to complete it but I hope to be able to restart it soon. I just had blood work done 2 weeks ago so I'll know my starting levels shortly.
The citation is in this article https://www.morozkoforge.com/post/cold-water-therapy-to-boost-testosterone
Archey et al. measured an increase in saliva testosterone in healthy young women resulting from cold stimulation in the cold pressor test. They didn't speculate about the mechanisms. Nonetheless, because sex steroids in women can originate in the mitochondria of adrenal glands, it's likely the increased adrenal activity responsible for the short-term testosterone boost.
I'm working on a new article on cold sensitivity and sex hormones. Super interesting.
It's interesting but small sample size is an issue for me in that study if I found the right one. Dunking hands in ice water instead of ice bath as well. Interesting but not conclusive from my perspective. I could be wrong but. I haven't studied in decades so what is significant may have changed or I may be misremembering.
These case studies don't prove anything except for the people who have experienced them. You don't know what works for your until you try it for yourself.
The mechanisms all make sense, and the experience of others is compelling.
However, I also have counter cases. The top reasons that ice baths fail to boost total testosterone (so far) are:
- taking meds that interfere with testosterone production
- years of TRT have resulted in atrophy of the gonads
- too much exercise (working out too dang hard) means the mitochondria are not getting any recovery/rebuild time
There might be others with poor zinc and magnesium intake, or poor sleep, but so far I haven't found them.
The fact is that controlled clinical studies tell you the probability of some technique working but probability tells you nothing about an individual’s experience. The contrary is also true though many “it happened to me” and “it didn’t work for me” statements make up a probability. An “it works for me” tells you nothing about anyone else. Probability will tell you how likely it will work for you but as I said earlier probability will not tell you individual results, only the trends.
Agreed
A clinical study is a good source for a hypothesis you might try for your own N=1, and when scientists see an N=1 that can be a good inspiration for hypothesis for new clinical studies.
That's why it's so important to share documented N=1 case studies. They should be welcomed, not denigrated.
Thank you for the article and link. Interesting for sure. What I didn't like. Healthy, young, women, hand in ice. Only one of those would I say are applicable to me as I'm not young, female, and putting my hands in ice isn't what seems to be advocated for in this forum since we have been discussing full body immersion.
What seems to constantly be presented is a story about an individual who had low T and then a year or two later it's higher. Then some one claiming "it's because of my exposure to cold water followed by exercise! ". And... maybe that's true. But... there are numerous factors that could play into that. Diet. Supplements. Eliminating unhealthy habits(alcohol/ drugs). Strength training. Reduced stress due to life change. Better sleeping. Etc etc. All of those things could explain changing T levels.
I truly appreciate your articles. I suspect you are correct. As you know correlation isn't causation though. That's where I become cautious. It just seems with cold exposure being all the Rage today it wouldn't be hard to get some more applicable data in a more controlled setting focused specifically on cold exposure followed by exercise for certain age groups and sex. I would love to see it happen.
The most interesting case is a man who tripled his total testosterone in a month. He did make diet and exercise changes, in addition to ice bath before exercises, but he refused to quit smoking.
The point to his case is not to prove that ice baths work for everyone all the time, fast, but to show that low testosterone is often the result of lifestyle choices that can be corrected.
To hear MD's talk about it, you'd think that low T was inevitable without TRT (it's not).
People in the /coldplunge community should be inspired by these successful case studies. Instead lots of replies here are taking a big crap on people who are succeeding at turning their lives and health around.
Makes me wonder why?
What... life style changes??? Nah.... just take this pill... or shot... instead! Lol
MDs are often so narrow sighted. I hate it. And the pharma complex is even worse.
So how long do you feel it takes for T levels to increase through cold plunge and exercise? I'll be the real life guinea pig. I'll post my starting T levels as soon as I get my results back and then I'll start.
Agreed.
It took me 4 months to test again and I saw a big jump. I've seen one other go from 300 ng/dL to 900 ng/dL in a month.
Depending on how bad your mitochondria are and how much you're changing to support them, I think you could see change in a few weeks.
Why are you going to list "scientific" articles to support your conclusion but then balk when people bring up other scientific principles that call into question your conclusion and how you arrived at it?
If I balked, then you are entitled to take your base. It's not like I was trying to pick you off first.
The video I posted is the testimony of individuals as documented in their lab reports. I only listed a "scientific" citation when I was asked politely for one.
So far, no one has raised any scientific principles that call anything I've posted into question.
There isn't anyone in this thread disputing the origin of sex steroid synthesis in the mitochondria. Nor has anyone said "Cold doesn't stimulate mitobiogenesis!" Nor has anyone suggested that cold fails to stimulate activity in fat cells, skin cells, or adrenals.
What people are questioning is whether there is a randomized, double-blind, placebo, controlled trial with sufficient statistical power to prove that thing that happened in these cases could be generalized to expect or predict it to happen in other cases, too.
“It worked for me” is garbage.
There are easily dozens of major confounding variables, as well as natural variation, measurement issues, and of course, the placebo effect.
If you don’t understand the problem with anecdotal “data”, maybe you should reconsider your line of work.
There very well may be truth to the hormonal benefits from cold plunging, but this is the kind of preliminary evidence that warrants proper scientific investigation, not jumping to conclusions.
You might do a great public service by explaining to dozen or so individuals who have shared their blood lab reports with me that their individual experience is "garbage." Maybe that way, they can go back to being sick and depressed so that you can comfort yourself with the smug satisfaction of moral superiority.
For me, I'll stick with my garbage, because that works for me!
I can't find any science that clearly backs this up, can you supply a source?
If the case studies aren't convincing enough, you can read the science for free at Morozko. There are hundreds of citations referenced in these articles.
https://www.morozkoforge.com/ice-bath-science/categories/testosterone-sex-health
Majority of those citations are unrelated to cold plunging and T. It would be great for the claim to be true, but it doesn’t seem that the relevant literature proves it. Maybe it will over time.
It sure as hell is true for me, and for the dozens of others who have documented increased total testosterone resulting from a regular ice bath practice prior to light exercise.
https://www.amazon.com/Uncommon-Testosterone-Plunge-Therapy-Optimizing/dp/B0F2KNMX7W/
Case studies are of individuals. Not actual scientific studies 🤦♂️. This is the kind of internet garbage on the same level as vaccines cause autism
Did you mean to compliment my work? I think it was an accident, but thanks.
https://www.morozkoforge.com/post/what-causes-autism-mitochondria
Absolutely not. A few case studies where people had their testosterone raise doesn’t prove correlation with ice baths. As typically taking ice baths for health is also accompanied with other health improving methods like proper diet and exercise. It’s naive to think a few people with raised testosterone is directly correlated with taking an ice baths.
Yes! You can also read my recommendations on diet and exercise (and sleep).
Stick with it. You'll have supra-normal levels of total testosterone before you know it.
That’s exactly my point. You can’t make a blanket claim about cold plunge boosting testosterone. As you have not conducted actual research 🤦♂️
How much exercise post ice bath? I usually do a 3 minute plank post I've bath just because it feels good. I'm hesitant to lift cold tho, the seems like a recipe to tear a muscle.
I’ve been weighttraining 30 mins after cold plunging 6 days a week for 5 or 6 months. I’m a huge fan. Feel like i stay fresher longer. Still stretch and use rubber bands before i lift.
Yeah! I suppose if you go thru a proper warm up it's probably. I don't lift heavy, so I'm bad about warming up. I admit it's a fault.
Not a lot of exercise. Just enough to rewarm.
A good rule of thumb is about 3 minutes of exercise for every 1 minute in the freezing cold.
If you're doing 3 minutes in the freezing ice bath, a little less than 10 minutes of steps, lunges, squats, steel mace, or jump rope works wonders.
Rebounding (trampoline) was very successful in one case study.
Thanks!!
Lol.
Oh look someone trying to sell their shit and using "case studies" and individual anecdote lmfao
One of the most interesting cases in the video is healthy 32yo woman who nearly doubled her total testosterone levels by adopting a regular practice of ice baths, without making any changes to her diet and exercise.
Although many of the other cases are amazing in that ice baths rescued injured or metabolically dysregulated individuals from low total testosterone, her case stands out because she was doing everything else well and still experienced a big boost.
My own case was similar. When I started daily ice baths, my total testosterone was about 750 ng/dL -- a level that any endocrinologist would say is great for a fat, sedentary college professor in his early 50's. After ice baths, my total testosterone jumped to 1180 ng/dL and it's stayed above 1000 ng/dL for years since.
https://www.amazon.com/Uncommon-Testosterone-Plunge-Therapy-Optimizing-ebook/dp/B0F2N22LKC
Dude stop trying to solicit sales for your pseudo science research book. This sub isn’t for you to profit off of.
The cool thing is he says who he is and what he believes - he’s legit. On this sub so many players posing to profit.
Everything I've every written on testosterone and cold is available for free at Morozko. I've already posted the link.
The books is available for the people who want it all in one place, or need paper so they can write in the margins.
Like me.