Uj/ exstermly heavily modified Supra can beat barley modified F40.
Tbf though this article is so old that, that at least was quite Admirable and meant something, Because the Supra (For what it was ) was cheap to aquire and Tune. When this article was published.
But nowadays you Would have to spend so much money to buy and build a Supra that can stand up to a Ferrari
That you might aswell Just straight up get a Ferrari
Lmao I love this sub jerked so hard they forgot why the Supra was so loved. Yes it's because it used to be a relatively cheap way to get what was back then crazy power. Obviously it doesn't make sense today anymore but it's not like it never did.
Hasn't tuning become easier and cheaper over the years? Nowadays it seems like every half-successful car YouTuber has a 1000hp Supra build. I'm sure a 1000hp Supra would be considered an extreme feat of engineering in the 90's.
The mark IV was $42k in 1993 or $95k in 2025 dollars, the last gen launched at $50k in 2020 or about $60k inflation adjusted.
Mark 1, 2 and 3 were all between 45k and 55k inflation adjusted.
The Mark IV has always been stupid expensive, even when it launched.
This right here breaks down why the Mk5 hate is so unjustified.
Not only is it much more attainable than the Mk4 (both now and back when the Mk4 was new), but it is also much easier to tune which keeps in spirit of the Mk4/ 2JZ. Biggest complaint is Toyota's absolutely abysmal ordering process, or rather, lack of an ordering process.
A lot of people hated on it "because it's a BMW", but if we're being real, BMW has built better drivers cars in the past 2 decades than Toyota has, and they're one of the few manufacturers that has continued to develop I6 platforms while the rest of the industry has been switching to V6s. If Toyota built their own it would have either had a generic V6 or it would have had a 6 figure price tag, and probably lack as much aftermarket/tuning support since it can't piggyback off the existing B58 tuning culture.
Preach, brother. That has been my exact opinion as well. The moment they announced they would partner with BMW and that they would use the B58 I was super excited. I reckon most haters aren't even the target demographic for it either. They wouldn't have bought a modernized Mk4 for $100k+ either yet they pretend the Mk5 we did get is atrocious. It's a fun car and not expensive, what more do you want?
1000bhp wasn't really an extreme feat back then, a streetable, reliable 1000bhp was, though, that was the Veyron's biggest achievement. Even back then you could stick a huge snail on a 2JZ or RB and get 1000bhp but it'd take a hell of a long time to get there, would hit all at once then you'd need to shift up.Â
Now you can get 1000bhp out of a Honda K series...
You needed a lot more then just a huge turbo even back then, a friends got a 670bhp R33 GTR and that's had pistons/rods, bigger twins, injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, oil cooler and a load of quaife bits in the transmission for it to hold together. He bought it basically completely stock 20 years ago when it was only 8 or 9 years old and I think its had 2 engine rebuilds in that time. You could probably get 800 or so out of it but its life expectancy would be in the few thousand miles rather then the 10+ years he's been getting out of it.
Yeah you're right, that was the worst way I could've written what I meant - what I was trying to say was you wouldn't get to 1000bhp without a huge turbo, not that all you needed was a huge turbo, but it was doable without anything really exotic like, I dunno, the race engines some mid night club drivers were supposedly getting from Porsche (I dunno if I believe all that). But making it reliable and drive well on the street was the hard part
Tuning has gotten harder and more expensive over the years. Cars are so software locked and hard to legally modify without being fined out of existence.
Uhh, this Gen supra was always super expensive. $60k in 1994 is the same as $130k today... Which is why there aren't very many gen 4 turbos in existence.
And they weren't exactly easy to modify. You had to run an entirely different engine management system because IIRC nobody ever unlocked the ECU and you couldnt swap in different EPROM chips to remap like you could in a Mitsubishi.
Swapping ecus on these old Japanese cars is incredibly easy, it's not really a barrier to entry at all. Even back then aftermarket ecus where made for specific cars and had the connecters premolded and prepinned. The power fc in my fd took me litterally 20 minutes Max to install. It's 3 large plugs, which you do need to be careful with, and some Velcro. Pretty sure the supra is similar.
I'm not talking about physical difficult of swapping ecu's. Any idiot can unplug a box and plug a different one in.
I'm talking about it being cost prohibitive and the old AEM EMS and similar systems were difficult to tune and pretty limited. You couldn't just pay a few hundred for a flash. You had to drop thousands on the ECU to begin with and either be pretty well versed with computers or pay a shop thousands more to tune it
And with the systems being limited, you'd lose things like fast idle for air conditioning or cruise control because aftermarket computers from the mid 90s didn't support it. So it's like paying Porsche 911 turbo money for a car that has shit drivability.
Or you can get into the world of piggybacks which were also super limited, inaccurate, and somewhat unreliable
I only know fds so I'll be out of my depth for anything else.
But I don't think it was as cost prohibitive as you think it was, at least not for FDs.
First the power fc was available the first year the car came out, and as far as I know was actually cheaper when it came out. Also piggy pack ecus for it existed from companies like hks. There was the Peter Farrell ecus. Knightsport plug and play ecus. Also in Japan they could tune and reflash factory fd ecus. And some shops in north America like petite sell modified oem fd ecus. I know for fds the entire ecu is coded in hexademical with no documentation, so modifying stock ecus was an art that could only be done in Japan when they came out. There would have been a lot more options in Japan in the 90s and instutional tuning knowledge that we would just not have had in north America.
Doing some quick googling seems power fcs would have been available for the mk4 supra in Japan and were used commonly in Japan and Australia, but never caught on in north America. From everything I know about FDs tuning was relatively affordable in Japan in the 90s. Anyways, long story short, it was possible to get a tuned fd in 92/93 for under 2000 most likely, maybe even less then 1000 depending on the price back then. My power fc would have been 1300 cad new today. And my tune was only 500 cad which I got done this summer. I can't imagine its cheaper to do now in north America then it was in Japan 30 years ago.
I mean, you're supporting my claim. You had to be a hex editing wizard to tune these old cars or just have extremely deep pockets for an EMS that is still pretty difficult to tune.
I am most experienced with ECMlink on Mitsubishis, which is extremely user friendly and cost effective and the main reason DSMs were so popular in the 90s and early 00's.
No, I'm trying to politely refute your claim haha. Specifically, I disagree that it was 1 "not easy to modify" and 2 "cost-prohibitive".
Now that being said, we might have different definitions of deep pockets. To me, 2000ish Canadian (1500 USD) for an ECU and tune is just the cost of admission and isn't a high price barrier. But I see what you mean by the comparison to ECMlink. You can tune it yourself for 500usd or get it tuned professionally for probably under 1000usd. So different price for sure. But a $1000 difference in the world of modifying cars just isn't deep pockets to me. And when you look at the cost of getting a JB4 tune at 700usd or a professionally installed JB4 flash tune at like 1000usd, the price difference just doesn't seem that exorbitant to me. Idk, everything is relative, I guess. My FD is super modified and has a lot of time into it. But relative to other FD guys, I did a budget build with low power haha. I guess when everyone I talk to has more power, more mods, and more money into their cars, it kind of skews my perception of what is normal for tuning cars.
You could get a mk5 to beat a stock roma pretty easily with bolt on mods, suspension and wheels. But anything after that is probably a serious challenge. The 296 is 819 hp, that's a lot of ponies for the entry level mid engine ferrari. Though I've read that 296s are slower then gt3s on track. And there's guys who have built their cars to be faster then gt3s. So it's probably possible. Just very difficult, and not cheap.
"Haha well you see my friend you happen to be rich and have bought a new sports car for a million dollars, i too happen to be rich but smart so i bought a ricer and spent a gorrilion dollars on parts to achive a higher top speed on a nascar track"
If im not wrong those are cars from midbight racing club. Those care are extremly modified. I think tjat supra went to studgard to be modified by porche.
Obviously they had Supras, but this car has no identifiable stickers. Then there's the claim that the car went to Germany to be turned by Porsche which is silly because that car would be incredibly famous then.
I admit this is the first time I'm hearing of Front Row and google didn't help me either. So unless it's owner has deep roots in the Midnight Club, then I have a hard time believing this specific car was in it.
If you can find the specific issue of this (what I'm assuming is) Option magazine then I'm sure we can find out more.
I highly doubt porsche would tune a supra, that doesn't even make sense. There is the Porsche 930 blackbird which was allegedly sent to Stuttgart to be turned by porsche. I imagine that is the car you are thinking of? Though I'm not sure if that 930 ever actually was since the owner of it, ( who was the founder of midnight club) got arrested for fraud at some point and is kind a sketchy guy.
You stupid article you made supra so famous that I can no longer afford it!!!!!
Publishers listen to me making cars popular cause to inflate and no longer be able to buys them, so if anyone sees a coold car PLEASE do not place upon magazines. :p
Uj/ exstermly heavily modified Supra can beat barley modified F40.
Tbf though this article is so old that, that at least was quite Admirable and meant something, Because the Supra (For what it was ) was cheap to aquire and Tune. When this article was published.
But nowadays you Would have to spend so much money to buy and build a Supra that can stand up to a Ferrari
That you might aswell Just straight up get a Ferrari
Yea like just get a 575 maranello at that point
Goes for the same price as a supra nowadays
Lmao I love this sub jerked so hard they forgot why the Supra was so loved. Yes it's because it used to be a relatively cheap way to get what was back then crazy power. Obviously it doesn't make sense today anymore but it's not like it never did.
Hasn't tuning become easier and cheaper over the years? Nowadays it seems like every half-successful car YouTuber has a 1000hp Supra build. I'm sure a 1000hp Supra would be considered an extreme feat of engineering in the 90's.
Yes, but the supra by itself has gone stupid expensive. More than you could afford, pal.
The mark IV was $42k in 1993 or $95k in 2025 dollars, the last gen launched at $50k in 2020 or about $60k inflation adjusted. Mark 1, 2 and 3 were all between 45k and 55k inflation adjusted.
The Mark IV has always been stupid expensive, even when it launched.
numbers and logic in my jerking feed???
https://preview.redd.it/xd53urprwc6g1.png?width=1049&format=png&auto=webp&s=57f8176275d60217bc830568ba5f6b8a9e003f6a
As you can see, I have depicted your LOGICAL and FACT BASED point as the soyjak and myself as the Chad, because
This right here breaks down why the Mk5 hate is so unjustified.
Not only is it much more attainable than the Mk4 (both now and back when the Mk4 was new), but it is also much easier to tune which keeps in spirit of the Mk4/ 2JZ. Biggest complaint is Toyota's absolutely abysmal ordering process, or rather, lack of an ordering process.
It's an awesome fucking car. Period. I never understood anyone hating on it.
A lot of people hated on it "because it's a BMW", but if we're being real, BMW has built better drivers cars in the past 2 decades than Toyota has, and they're one of the few manufacturers that has continued to develop I6 platforms while the rest of the industry has been switching to V6s. If Toyota built their own it would have either had a generic V6 or it would have had a 6 figure price tag, and probably lack as much aftermarket/tuning support since it can't piggyback off the existing B58 tuning culture.
Preach, brother. That has been my exact opinion as well. The moment they announced they would partner with BMW and that they would use the B58 I was super excited. I reckon most haters aren't even the target demographic for it either. They wouldn't have bought a modernized Mk4 for $100k+ either yet they pretend the Mk5 we did get is atrocious. It's a fun car and not expensive, what more do you want?
Not to mention that the A90 would have been $90k-plus for a base four-cylinder, if it were all in-house by Toyota.
Engineering a new chassis platform, new factories, new engine and all that stuff adds up.
1000bhp wasn't really an extreme feat back then, a streetable, reliable 1000bhp was, though, that was the Veyron's biggest achievement. Even back then you could stick a huge snail on a 2JZ or RB and get 1000bhp but it'd take a hell of a long time to get there, would hit all at once then you'd need to shift up.Â
Now you can get 1000bhp out of a Honda K series...
You needed a lot more then just a huge turbo even back then, a friends got a 670bhp R33 GTR and that's had pistons/rods, bigger twins, injectors, fuel pump, intercooler, oil cooler and a load of quaife bits in the transmission for it to hold together. He bought it basically completely stock 20 years ago when it was only 8 or 9 years old and I think its had 2 engine rebuilds in that time. You could probably get 800 or so out of it but its life expectancy would be in the few thousand miles rather then the 10+ years he's been getting out of it.
Yeah you're right, that was the worst way I could've written what I meant - what I was trying to say was you wouldn't get to 1000bhp without a huge turbo, not that all you needed was a huge turbo, but it was doable without anything really exotic like, I dunno, the race engines some mid night club drivers were supposedly getting from Porsche (I dunno if I believe all that). But making it reliable and drive well on the street was the hard part
Well, a 1000hp engine that would last more than a grand prix would indeed sound absurd to someone from the 80s-90s
Tbh the 2jz with a big turbo and piping probably weighed as much as the whole car in grand prix lmfao
Tuning has gotten harder and more expensive over the years. Cars are so software locked and hard to legally modify without being fined out of existence.
Yes and yes.
So old? They already had Vbox. Maybe it's a tiny outdated, but "so old" is quite a stretch. I'm pretty sure the internet already existed, too.
You can see a bmw M5 E60 on the left, so the article isn't THAT old
To be fair the e60 m5 came out 20 years ago now.
Yeah, but the guy said "I'm pretty sure the Internet already existed", but the photo is so ""recent"" that even Facebook and YouTube already existed
did you just call u/Elvis1404 old????
he probably is tho
Don´t explain that to us, this ain´t 13yo tiktok.
We beating Ferraris in our Modussys.
Uhh, this Gen supra was always super expensive. $60k in 1994 is the same as $130k today... Which is why there aren't very many gen 4 turbos in existence.
And they weren't exactly easy to modify. You had to run an entirely different engine management system because IIRC nobody ever unlocked the ECU and you couldnt swap in different EPROM chips to remap like you could in a Mitsubishi.
Swapping ecus on these old Japanese cars is incredibly easy, it's not really a barrier to entry at all. Even back then aftermarket ecus where made for specific cars and had the connecters premolded and prepinned. The power fc in my fd took me litterally 20 minutes Max to install. It's 3 large plugs, which you do need to be careful with, and some Velcro. Pretty sure the supra is similar.
I'm not talking about physical difficult of swapping ecu's. Any idiot can unplug a box and plug a different one in.
I'm talking about it being cost prohibitive and the old AEM EMS and similar systems were difficult to tune and pretty limited. You couldn't just pay a few hundred for a flash. You had to drop thousands on the ECU to begin with and either be pretty well versed with computers or pay a shop thousands more to tune it
And with the systems being limited, you'd lose things like fast idle for air conditioning or cruise control because aftermarket computers from the mid 90s didn't support it. So it's like paying Porsche 911 turbo money for a car that has shit drivability.
Or you can get into the world of piggybacks which were also super limited, inaccurate, and somewhat unreliable
I only know fds so I'll be out of my depth for anything else.
But I don't think it was as cost prohibitive as you think it was, at least not for FDs. First the power fc was available the first year the car came out, and as far as I know was actually cheaper when it came out. Also piggy pack ecus for it existed from companies like hks. There was the Peter Farrell ecus. Knightsport plug and play ecus. Also in Japan they could tune and reflash factory fd ecus. And some shops in north America like petite sell modified oem fd ecus. I know for fds the entire ecu is coded in hexademical with no documentation, so modifying stock ecus was an art that could only be done in Japan when they came out. There would have been a lot more options in Japan in the 90s and instutional tuning knowledge that we would just not have had in north America. Doing some quick googling seems power fcs would have been available for the mk4 supra in Japan and were used commonly in Japan and Australia, but never caught on in north America. From everything I know about FDs tuning was relatively affordable in Japan in the 90s. Anyways, long story short, it was possible to get a tuned fd in 92/93 for under 2000 most likely, maybe even less then 1000 depending on the price back then. My power fc would have been 1300 cad new today. And my tune was only 500 cad which I got done this summer. I can't imagine its cheaper to do now in north America then it was in Japan 30 years ago.
I mean, you're supporting my claim. You had to be a hex editing wizard to tune these old cars or just have extremely deep pockets for an EMS that is still pretty difficult to tune.
I am most experienced with ECMlink on Mitsubishis, which is extremely user friendly and cost effective and the main reason DSMs were so popular in the 90s and early 00's.
No, I'm trying to politely refute your claim haha. Specifically, I disagree that it was 1 "not easy to modify" and 2 "cost-prohibitive". Now that being said, we might have different definitions of deep pockets. To me, 2000ish Canadian (1500 USD) for an ECU and tune is just the cost of admission and isn't a high price barrier. But I see what you mean by the comparison to ECMlink. You can tune it yourself for 500usd or get it tuned professionally for probably under 1000usd. So different price for sure. But a $1000 difference in the world of modifying cars just isn't deep pockets to me. And when you look at the cost of getting a JB4 tune at 700usd or a professionally installed JB4 flash tune at like 1000usd, the price difference just doesn't seem that exorbitant to me. Idk, everything is relative, I guess. My FD is super modified and has a lot of time into it. But relative to other FD guys, I did a budget build with low power haha. I guess when everyone I talk to has more power, more mods, and more money into their cars, it kind of skews my perception of what is normal for tuning cars.
You could get a mk5 to beat a stock roma pretty easily with bolt on mods, suspension and wheels. But anything after that is probably a serious challenge. The 296 is 819 hp, that's a lot of ponies for the entry level mid engine ferrari. Though I've read that 296s are slower then gt3s on track. And there's guys who have built their cars to be faster then gt3s. So it's probably possible. Just very difficult, and not cheap.
Well not F40
The f40 is Ferrari's Supra, I swear. The F40 wasn't that fast, either.
Renault sport spider:
Renault R25:
R21 Turbo:
R5 Alpine :
"Haha well you see my friend you happen to be rich and have bought a new sports car for a million dollars, i too happen to be rich but smart so i bought a ricer and spent a gorrilion dollars on parts to achive a higher top speed on a nascar track"
They were midnight club cars, Both cars were modified.
Also that isn’t even the top speed for a Ferrari F40
God I love when midnight club gets mentioned. Feels like cave art these days
Wow...a Supra without an headlight can beat a Ferrari F40
It's never a stock supra
God that blacked out F40 looks sexyÂ
yep and thats how they got overrated
Tuned to the max Supra beat a stock 1980s Ferrari?? No way!!!
a foxbody could do that if it was bulit right
And if you turned off the A/C
A/C stays on
Then you're only going to get 339.3km/h, 339.5 tops.
You need your A/C in a us car
If im not wrong those are cars from midbight racing club. Those care are extremly modified. I think tjat supra went to studgard to be modified by porche.
Edit: i am compytly wring. Dont lisen to me
Why do they not carry midnight stickers then?
Here are actual midnight club cars:
https://preview.redd.it/ivpbal8dgc6g1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fd3ae8708b36f04d8ba8bfad537e3ade9d43b2d7
mnc had a70 and a80 supras, the stickers werent always banners.
Obviously they had Supras, but this car has no identifiable stickers. Then there's the claim that the car went to Germany to be turned by Porsche which is silly because that car would be incredibly famous then.
The only famous black "stock" body Supra I found was the HKS T-001, but that doesn't really match with the front bumper and the lack of stickers. However I think I actually found the real car, no glamourous Stuttgart I'm afraid. That or it's a funny coincidence. https://www.jm-imports.co.uk/vehicle/1995-toyota-supra-rz-650ps-3-1-litre-built-by-front-row-japan-wangan-street-racer-340km-top-speed-6-speed-manual/
I admit this is the first time I'm hearing of Front Row and google didn't help me either. So unless it's owner has deep roots in the Midnight Club, then I have a hard time believing this specific car was in it.
If you can find the specific issue of this (what I'm assuming is) Option magazine then I'm sure we can find out more.
I highly doubt porsche would tune a supra, that doesn't even make sense. There is the Porsche 930 blackbird which was allegedly sent to Stuttgart to be turned by porsche. I imagine that is the car you are thinking of? Though I'm not sure if that 930 ever actually was since the owner of it, ( who was the founder of midnight club) got arrested for fraud at some point and is kind a sketchy guy.
You you are right i am mistaken
You stupid article you made supra so famous that I can no longer afford it!!!!!
Publishers listen to me making cars popular cause to inflate and no longer be able to buys them, so if anyone sees a coold car PLEASE do not place upon magazines. :p
If they were red, they would be even faster
SUPRA WITH ONE HEADLIGHT
https://preview.redd.it/mre7q35kem6g1.png?width=731&format=png&auto=webp&s=62c9cf863502067d9dd04ac31bbddb1e3f315103
All that speed and yet you're still the one arriving in a Toyota 🤢