Cool vehicle, good review. I still can’t get past the styling. I like the rear hips and many other parts, I just can’t do that front end. I have also seen them in person quite a few times, so I’m not just judging photos. The kidneys are weird, the blocks on the air dam are weird. As a BMW fan and a previous owner, I’m predisposed to like this car, but I’m not quite there. However, it wouldn’t take very many changes to get me there…
It would be a hard call between the green and the purple.
Funny that the sportier looking seats are functionally worse. I remember back to the E36 generation where the sport luxury seats in the M3 were actually better seats than the aggressive and very cool looking vaders.
I've seen that blue in person and it looks great, so good choice. I think it shows better in person than the green which I thought looked worse in person (though not bad!).
Totally! I really had no interest until I saw one while visiting a dealership, it's also what people consistently say to me when they ask me questions at track days.
I don’t love it per say, but I think the fact it closely followed the current M3/M4 (who’s only sin is to have hideous buck teeth) and that it followed up a genuinely good looking car gives it a bad rap among enthusiasts… i think it looks fine, and it has a lot more character than some of the overstyled BS from BMW’s current lineup
Sure, though that's because the belt line on the standard 2-series extends all the way to the front, whereas the M2 is compensating for the belt line with a more aggressive "DTM" inspired frontal design. All I'm saying is that regulatory belt lines are terroristic design elements that look like shit on just about every vehicle.
Another design flaw the M2 suffers from is the hood seam where the hood meets the front assembly, which is painted plastic. Plastic composite fenders and quarter panels never have the same quality of paint finish and often appear slightly lighter/darker than the metal paneling. Light behaves more erratically on softer materials, particularly on complex shapes such as the M2's front assembly. That hitch you're talking about looks even more pronounced because of this and the manner in which reflection tapers and falls off toward the hood seam is a mess under the right lighting conditions. Like room temperature, partially melted, warbly cheese.
It isn’t necessarily about the plastic vs metal and how paint looks. It’d mainly due to the fact that the hood and front bumper do not meet flush. The front bumper has an ever so slight bulge to it.
It's almost there but there are way too many competing, conflicted contours and shapes. I also loathe the fake vent slop that every brand integrates at the rear for reflectors and arbitrary plastic cladding. Just engineer an aero channel that barely does anything for once.
I can’t get past the styling either and I put my money where my mouth is. I had a 2017 m2 and I loved it so much I was gonna get the g87 but when I saw some leaked pictures of it, I said nope. So I bought a 2021 f87 instead.
It's not a good looking car. The worst part is it's so close to actually looking good. Just needs some tweaks. I love the e36 generation and e46 will remain the most timeless imo
Yeah I owned a g80 m3 xdrive for 25k miles and it was very fast, but heavy and numb. It also gives you so little feedback that it’s really hard to tell when you are approaching the limits. In all those miles I still never felt like I had a “feel” for that car.
So I don’t know if people know this but the other things that bugs me about these cars is just how much of the cabin noise is fake. You can look at YouTube videos comparing the car with “active sound design” turned off via bimmercode and… yuck. That B58 or S58 sound that you thought was amazing was all speaker soundtracks.
At least Porsche uses actual sound — the “sound symposer” tubes that literally physically run from the engine into the cabin. So you’re genuinely hearing real engine noise.
It's also not not an enthusiast car just because it's not an Emira. Hell, the delta between a Miata and an Emira is more than the detla between an Emira and an M2.
There are many, many definitions for enthusiast car, and the M2 is absolutely up there on my list.
If the M2 is not an enthusiast car then there's like five enthusiast cars on the entire market. Just because it doesn't have the feel of M cars of the E generations doesn't mean it's not an enthusiast car. And I say this as someone who does agree with you that it's too numb. But all cars are too numb these days.
If the M2 is not an enthusiast car then there's like five enthusiast cars on the entire market.
To be fair I think that’s their argument lol. They’re looking at it from an absolute, not relative standpoint. The window has moved and instead of saying “well the M2 is still an enthusiast car relative to what else is out there” they’re just saying most new sports cars aren’t enthusiast cars anymore
Weight. If you're saying "The M2 is too heavy to be an enthusiast car," then the same could be said of an Emira. If the Miata is "absolutely" an enthusiast car, well your Emira weighs more away from the Miata than the M2 does from your Emira.
The m2 is too numb man. Feels like a video game
Ok, fine, that's your opinion. But this dorky "hurr steering numb not an enthusiast car" reddit thing is so silly. CLEARLY it's a car for car enthusiasts. It's just not for you.
numbness doesnt just come from weight. you can definitely take a miata, do all the wrong things to the inputs and end up with a numb driving experience
the thing is, ive tried explaining the concept of a driver's car to non car people. the visceral experience, feedback through the chassis, playfulness on the street, feeling the suspension set, wheels grip up, etc. their takeaway was "oh so you just like a shittier feeling car". if that's the average person's sentiment..then yeah it makes sense why bmw tunes their M cars to cater towards these types of buyers who arent necessarily looking for a driver's car. what some perceive as numbness, they perceive as stability, confidence, refinement, luxury, and so on.
I think it's funny when new M car owners hit the canyons for the first time and say it handles like it's on rails. Then you get actual track drivers reviewing them and they dont have much confidence pushing it around a track due to numbness making it hard to predict. This is not me shitting on the M2, just saying there are all kinds of drivers/buyers out there
M cars have always been catered to this customer, yet with time we learn that BMW was mostly correct. The E30 owners complained the E36 was soft and heavy. The same when the E46 was new.
Attitudes of car buyers and expectations change, and BMW has a pulse on that better than what any singular person would.
But also their is no set direction on what makes a drivers car. An M2 is obviously going to have more livability compromises than a BRZ or a Lotus. They are two different targets.
Definitely, I spent a lot of time in an e30 and it's a very engaging and raw experience. E36 slightly less so, and so on. The ethos of a driver's car is communication and engagement, good inputs, ergonomics, anything that would add to a sport driving experience. However what is actually "fun" is subjective, and it is true vast majority of enthusiasts just want fun for the street and the majority of their use case is regular driving
E30 is raw and engaging, yes. But so was a Civic of the same time period. Compared to a Civic that E30 was a heavy pig!
So I agree with you! Its just that all of the things you listed are so subjective. So its hard for any of us to agree on it.
The new M2 is an enthusiast car, for sure. Not too many normies are going to shell out that much extra money just because. I think it will suit its market well for people like me who want to be able to drive it in all conditions, take it on road trips, have fun on backroads, and perhaps do a track day now and again. JUST like I do with my E46
Given that there seems to be about 300 lotuses for sale in the entire US, I’m not sure Lotus is a relevant comparison for anything automotive. They functionally don’t exist here, they’re vaporware; yet people act like they’re the relevant to comparison of sports cars.
Vaporware isn't an available product. They sold 12,000 vehicles globally last year. That's not vaporware. I can go buy a Lotus today, in the US. Not vaporware.
If Lotus was vaporware, they'd have sold zero cars. Literally zero.
Wayyy too heavy haha and exactly... these days the bar is so pathetically low that any manual at all (doesn't even need to be a great one linkage and throw wise for feel etc), decent sounding (who cares if it's a turbo charged whatever lol), sub 4K lbs (lul), 2 door (can can backseats half the time and guys will still pass it as a sports car haha)... gets passed off as enthusiast driven or a a full sports car. The slightest hint of analog == enthusiast car now haha
One single parameter or variable shared with a sports car like say a stick of any kind == sports car 😂
I'd say it's definitely an enthusiast car. Not necessarily a driver's car. On a track it can perform but I've also heard it's harder to manage because it's so numb
This is not a good take. Its a small car, with a great suspension, a great engine, a manual, 2 doors, and sporty looks. I'm not sure what you are expecting, this is what new owners want out of a sports car.
People said the exact same thing about the E36, E46, etc every time a new generation comes out.
We stray further and further of what new owners want out of sports car. M2 is compromised as a true sports car anyways, it doesn’t feel like one at all. Cayman/emira/gr86/grcorolla/miata/typeR/ feel like sports cars. A new m2 does not. And I wish it did because I wanted to buy one but I hate the way it drives and feels.
Perhaps. But what I'm saying is it feels like a modern equivalent of an E30 M3, and E36 M3, etc.
An E46 M3 did not feel like a sports car next to a 2006 cayman either.
Like it or not, this is what M cars have ALWAYS been. They are made for enthusiasts who also want some level of practicality and daily usability. That makes them enthusiasts cars. End of discussion.
I've seen a Java Green M2 in person and that would likely be my choice, that or Voodoo Blue. Both colors look great on it.
If anyone was in the market for a new one and wanted the auto, the xDrive version should be out for MY27 cars so it's worth waiting another year. Hopefully they bring back some colorful interiors too.
I like having the community and the little parts that can make a car your own that comes with a more popular car. The CT4 also had reports of reliability issues, more than what I could find for the M2 that scared me away.
The after market support on BMWs is a big reason I went this route, I have a a clear upgrade/mod path I can go down that plenty of others have done before. Also BMWs are frequently tracked, so there is a decent community of people's experience on that and the strength/weakness of the platform.
Still a car with plenty of compromises, but there really isn't a car in this price range that doesn't have its own different comprises.
Totally, I'm planning on doing some front suspension work early next year which I hope fixes some if the numbness and stops me from chewing up my front tires as fast.
And might do a shift linkage kit, but not sure what one I want.
Man, I love those Emiras. I'd love to get one one day, but they're still out of my price range. And between that point and the Emiras are so many amazing cars. Like low mileage LC500s, good condition AMG GTs, Aston Martin DB11s...
It’s great but not much drama. So much more capable especially on track but somehow the steering is more numb, the transmission (zf8) provides no drama. Better power band but not as fun to use. Seats are far better in the new gen too but I wouldn’t get it over the f87 comp
Currently on my 2nd F87 M2, and I did have an ND2 previously. I agree with everyone else here that Miata is more fun, but I'll add that if it's your only car the M2 is probably the way to go for most people
Absolutely, I wouldn’t consider a Miata as an only car (I know people are doing it, but I couldn’t). Would you say it would be a good option along the G26 I currently have? I kept going back and forth between Miata and M2 and was thinking that a manual F87 like yours (sweet ride, enjoy) might be better.
Completely depends on how and where you'd be driving the Miata, but I think you'd probably enjoy the contrast of the Miata vs G26. It's probably worth it just to have the lightweight roadster experience, ultimately the M2 would just be a different side of the BMW ownership experience
I don’t love the manual in bmws. F87 is the only car I own in auto cuz the manual was pretty mid. The Miata manual on the other hand is amazing. So much feedback and nice notchy shifts. There’s some mods to improve the f87 shift experience but I never got to experience them
Counterpoint, I've had both DCT and manual M2 and I love both. I think the BMW shifter complaints are overblown, it's fine–in stock form not the best and by far not the worst manual, I replaced the rear shifter bushing and that's also made it better. I agree Miata shifters definitely feel better though
Yea I wouldn’t say it’s bad but there’s better manual experiences out there, on the flip side, I think the bmw DCT is one of the best auto trans, right up there with the pdk
Agreed on the F87 manual. I had one for a few years and ended up wishing I'd gone for the DCT because the manual didn't add to the experience of the car.
Would you say that if you were in the mood to just go out and drive, you would’ve chosen the Miata instead of the M2? Trying to make up my mind about those two
Ive owned the m2 for 5 years and the Miata for 2. I’ve put more miles on the Miata in 2 years than the m2 in 5 lol. It’s just such a blast on road. M2 is an amazing car but for short trips and in town driving it’s a pain. Barely even get up to temp in time for any short drives. Another underrated aspect of the Miata is I don’t mind parking it anywhere. The m2 is still in great condition despite the heavy track use so I’m sometimes still a little worried about door dings. The Miata is so small that you’re not gonna need to worry lol. The m2 is great but it’s so heavy it’s not very tossable as some people say. And when you’re paying $1500-2000 for a set of tires it gets expensive to toss lol
Pretty much all of EU, a mix of low / inexistent stock, tire kickers, shitty dealers.
It boggles my mind when I read of US guys “yeah I was just blasting down the highway when I saw the newest M5 at the dealership, so I had to stop and take it for a spin”, lol
Yeah, I was asking for road, on track I know which I would choose, but I only do a couple of track days per year so I want something that is potentially fun while running errands too.
Fat fat fatty fat. The M2, which is numbered less than 3, is almost 3,800lbs. Modern safety features? No. The weight is a byproduct of the necessity for prodigality- if some power is good, all power is better. And then you need to cool that power, transmit that power, damp that power, stop that power. All power begets all weight.
Swapping steering speed for feel isn’t great, either- the very last thing I ever want to compare a car to is fast food, and yet here we are. If I have no other choice, I will eat fast food- but it is the last resort. It fills my belly but doesn’t feed my soul. I make good food- when I go out to eat, I need to experience that which I cannot make. There has to be ambiance, skill, kindness of interaction, unique ingredients or preparation, something that makes me feel something about the experience other than a monetary transaction.
Fast steering makes the car feel quicker, more athletic, and goes hand in hand with harsh suspension, gigantic brakes, and too much grip. It doesn’t make for a better dance partner, it makes more thrilling the short experiences a modern driver is likely to encounter- an on-ramp, a cloverleaf. But it’s tiring and unfulfilling; a good street car needs to be able to approach its limits in a not-entirely-antisocial way. 1+ g of cornering is distinctly antisocial- seven-tenths is still 0.7g. Pick a local corner, use mapping software to determine its radius, then solve 0.7=v2 / 15R where v is the speed and R is the radius of the corner. You’ll probably be surprised.
Fat steering wheels need to die. I love thin wheels, like in an Elan or early 911. Even my track car’s wheel is thinner than an M2’s. Thin is tactile. Thin offers the promise of conversation. It is not a bomber’s heavy yoke but a fighter’s stick.
Live Cockpit Pro sounds like a pricing tier for F1TV and I despise it.
Fully agree with all of this. Which makes me think the G87 M2 is not for us. My 997 at 3250lbs was a bit heavy for my taste, did a good bit to lighten it and have a ways more to go. I suppose there are just not that many new-ish cars that are made for people that want to prioritize lightness and genuine feedback from the car. Maybe 5 non supercars... Alpine A110, Emira, ND Miata, 86, and maybe a couple others I can't think of now.. then it goes straight to the madhouse with things like 911 ST which by pricing is a supercar.
If the M2 is not for us… what does it say about BMW M that their smallest offering is unacceptably heavy and numb?
BMW has never made lightweight cars and I fully understand that. I also understand that BMW has not made a car that interests me since the E39 M5- even if I adore the way an E46 M3 looks, I’d rather have an S54 in an E36. I am biased, and heavily so.
I regard this as a societal issue- the society that requires horror movies to have at least one face being viscerally smashed in, owns a cookie-cutter home in the suburbs, orders from Temu to “save money,” continues to use a bloated and frankly unrecognizable Amazon, and gobbles up pay-to-play video games cannot abide genuine feel. The falseness inherent in the system is laid bare by connection.
It is precisely because my life is surrounded with artificiality that I am so insistent on the subjective aspects of driving, and why I am so disappointed so often.
Agreed, it is a societal issue reflected in stuff like you mentioned, cookie cutter houses in the burbs. More than it says something about BMW and their efforts it highlights a societal acceptance of an exchange of quality for a shiny wrapper. Goal posts moving that benefit automotive manufacturers to shift from the idea that sporty relates to how a car involves the driver to sporty meaning only performance metrics. It's much cheaper to add horsepower than it is lightness while maintaining similar NVH. If folks are still buying and also eating it up and saying things like "The M2 is a sports car" the manufacturers are perfectly satisfied with the outcome.
The whole situation recalls Walter from The Big Lebowski, seeming like a lunatic for sticking to his principles (even if misguided).. "I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude", and how societally everything is up for negotiation at this point, including what constitutes a fact.
With there being so few cars that embody the importance of involvement and lightness, I'm encouraged to do something I haven't ever seriously considered, buying a new car (Emira or ND Miata) because even the engineering driven organizations like Porsche are deprioritizing the old principles in their sporting vehicles except for products made for millionaires..
I would spend all my money on an new from the factory E36 or E46 with some sort of no screen wireless CarPlay that lets me project map directions on a HUD and heated and ventilated seats.
I think most of this is possible. There are lots of carplay drop in units for the E46 that look factory. And i've seen a few people swapping in F80 M3 seats which look great.
how does being performance car of the year relate to my statement? why would they contact me? i am familiar with the automobile, i am not their market.
Ahh because your statement about being “2 tons of not a lot of fun” contradicts the performance car of the year award and maybe you’re a better judge of vehicles overall dynamics then the people at Motor Trend.
Pardon the run on sentence! Also, the S58 has a pretty nice exhaust note, have you heard one in person?
Maybe awards are the true gospel, and we're all just wrong about the 2026 Dodge charger, as that won car of the year this year so clearly it must be the best.
Or maybe, awards mean less than nothing because they're just purchased by manufacturers.
If they were indeed purchased by the oem, you’d see the M2 named car of the year etc all over. It’s not though.
Im biased, I own one and I noticed most of the people that comment about size/sound/looks etc aren’t buying cars like these. They will complain about the lack of manual cars and then slam the M2 as being fat and then get back into their automatic Civics/Camrys
I don't really understand your logic. So you think the Dodge charger is indeed the car of the year?
About your 2nd paragraph, there's definitely an issue with regular-traffic drivers shitting on special cars. I mean hell, I'd guess that 30% of the automotive hate that cars get is from kids riding in the back of their parents cars. That said, I think the newer M cars are fat, look worse than I'd like, and sound pretty shit, so I bought a 2nd generation BRZ. Much lighter, better looking, sounds much better after an exhaust, and cheaper to both purchase and maintain.
Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I think the twins target audience is people focused on driving enjoyment, as it's hard to get more pure than a front engine, rwd, NA, lightweight sports car. I don't think the M cars are terrible or anything, but they're certainly something different. From the outside looking in, they seem to me to be the flashier appearing option that is more dull in reality. Very impressive track performance though!
Geez, where to start with this bowl of nonsense. Noone with ears thinks the s58 sounds even remotely tolerable.
In this case I am a better judge, the m2 is barely faster than a civic, that does not add up to anything of the year.
What market AT me? I buy cars that i can see out of and don't look like melted Legos. Bmw has been a marketing department for a couple decades now, congrats on being fooled.
the s55 has the same firing order as every other inline 6, 153624. it sounds terrible for a litany of reasons, none being the firing order.
the ctr is much closer in lap times than it has any right to be, tire for tire it is basically a drivers race. it is not a competitor based on price or horsepower. god bless honda for making the ringer internet argument mobile.
my current fleet is 1995 m3, 1995 gtr, 2006 350z(track only), 2011 prius.. the prius was a gift, and i have only purchased motorcycles in the last 3 years. i have driven every model of bmw sold in the us since at least 2002.
God, I just love green cars, especially with a manual, and carbon bucket seats.
Too bad they removed the Brown interior option a couple years ago.
One of my dream cars remains a V6 Lotus Exige in Isotope Green. But BMW’s Java Green is also excellent.
I was originally going to get the cognac interior in my 23 M2 but I didn't like how much black was still in the interior, specifically the door cards.
The brown interior was so good, such a shame BMW axed it. Green paint hits different though, especially on the M2
I’ve loved my Python Green for my car.
Green is good.
Porsche did the same thing for the 718, got rid of the cognac interior before I bought. Bummed me out.
am also bummed they took away the brown interior. But at least you can get some color on the black seats. I like the M highlights on mine
Cool vehicle, good review. I still can’t get past the styling. I like the rear hips and many other parts, I just can’t do that front end. I have also seen them in person quite a few times, so I’m not just judging photos. The kidneys are weird, the blocks on the air dam are weird. As a BMW fan and a previous owner, I’m predisposed to like this car, but I’m not quite there. However, it wouldn’t take very many changes to get me there…
It would be a hard call between the green and the purple.
Funny that the sportier looking seats are functionally worse. I remember back to the E36 generation where the sport luxury seats in the M3 were actually better seats than the aggressive and very cool looking vaders.
I'm one of the odd balls who loves the styling.
Looks like things are working out very well for you then! Congrats on your sweet car.
What colour?
Zandvoort blue was what I picked, also not everyone's favorite color, but again, I'm an odd ball.
I've been loving the car and use it as my daily and track car. First performance car I've owned and couldn't be happier.
I have absolutely nothing but praise for the blue. It’s the colour I’ve seen the most on cars in the wild.
I've seen that blue in person and it looks great, so good choice. I think it shows better in person than the green which I thought looked worse in person (though not bad!).
Lotus and Cadillac still have my favorite greens.
EDIT: People mad about color opinions.
Montreal Green Alfa Romeo Giulia is stellar. Especially the euro GTAm model.
Ah yea, that ones great.
It looks much better in person than in pictures.
Totally! I really had no interest until I saw one while visiting a dealership, it's also what people consistently say to me when they ask me questions at track days.
I don’t love it per say, but I think the fact it closely followed the current M3/M4 (who’s only sin is to have hideous buck teeth) and that it followed up a genuinely good looking car gives it a bad rap among enthusiasts… i think it looks fine, and it has a lot more character than some of the overstyled BS from BMW’s current lineup
If you look at the side profile, you can see the angle of the hood and the front bumper don’t align. Bugs me everytime.
Been pointing that out since it was released. And you don't have to look at it from the side profile to notice it. Even looking at it front the front can make it look like a bad paint match if the light hits it right. It's awful.
completely agree, this is the biggest issue i have with the design, the whole front bumper looks inflamed
Well that is an aftermarket hood, right? So likely fitment isn't great and the paint match isn't perfect in reality.
No that’s the factory hood.
huh, interesting
Dogshit pedestrian impact belt lines that ruin the intended design of every vehicle.
Not in this case. The M240i and 230i don't have that weird hitch between the bumper and hood. Only the M2 does. This was a purposeful design decision.
Sure, though that's because the belt line on the standard 2-series extends all the way to the front, whereas the M2 is compensating for the belt line with a more aggressive "DTM" inspired frontal design. All I'm saying is that regulatory belt lines are terroristic design elements that look like shit on just about every vehicle.
Another design flaw the M2 suffers from is the hood seam where the hood meets the front assembly, which is painted plastic. Plastic composite fenders and quarter panels never have the same quality of paint finish and often appear slightly lighter/darker than the metal paneling. Light behaves more erratically on softer materials, particularly on complex shapes such as the M2's front assembly. That hitch you're talking about looks even more pronounced because of this and the manner in which reflection tapers and falls off toward the hood seam is a mess under the right lighting conditions. Like room temperature, partially melted, warbly cheese.
It isn’t necessarily about the plastic vs metal and how paint looks. It’d mainly due to the fact that the hood and front bumper do not meet flush. The front bumper has an ever so slight bulge to it.
Yea, if I am going to be spending that much on a car, I want to love every part of it(or atleast feel indifferent about it)
I don't really want to have to compromise on something so expensive.
I want it to look good, perform well, have a super nice sporty interior, etc.
All cars are a compromise. Are there other cars that offer this level of performance, interior, looks etc for the price?
Someone local changed their kidney slats to vertical and it truly transforms the front end.
It's almost there but there are way too many competing, conflicted contours and shapes. I also loathe the fake vent slop that every brand integrates at the rear for reflectors and arbitrary plastic cladding. Just engineer an aero channel that barely does anything for once.
I can’t get past the styling either and I put my money where my mouth is. I had a 2017 m2 and I loved it so much I was gonna get the g87 but when I saw some leaked pictures of it, I said nope. So I bought a 2021 f87 instead.
It's not a good looking car. The worst part is it's so close to actually looking good. Just needs some tweaks. I love the e36 generation and e46 will remain the most timeless imo
This is where I’m at too. I saw one in black recently and the highlights really accentuated the parts I like about the car. There’s a lot to like.
Just a few changes would get it there.
Maybe BMW will fix it with a facelift ahem I mean a LIFE CYCLE IMPULSE, silly me.
100%. I think the m2 (and m4) look the best in black
The M2 would be more practical for me but it’s more of why I went with a Supra
I have grown to like the m4 m3 styling but the entire 2 series is just an eye sore
It’s too heavy and too numb. It not an enthusiast car just because it has a manual.
Yeah I owned a g80 m3 xdrive for 25k miles and it was very fast, but heavy and numb. It also gives you so little feedback that it’s really hard to tell when you are approaching the limits. In all those miles I still never felt like I had a “feel” for that car.
You probably weren’t anywhere near the limit if you weren’t on a track.
Yeah but I took this one corner 10 mph over over the speed limit!111!1
So I don’t know if people know this but the other things that bugs me about these cars is just how much of the cabin noise is fake. You can look at YouTube videos comparing the car with “active sound design” turned off via bimmercode and… yuck. That B58 or S58 sound that you thought was amazing was all speaker soundtracks.
At least Porsche uses actual sound — the “sound symposer” tubes that literally physically run from the engine into the cabin. So you’re genuinely hearing real engine noise.
The B58 and S58 are amazing engines, but they’re also probably the worst sounding straight 6s BMW has ever produced.
It's also not not an enthusiast car just because it's not an Emira. Hell, the delta between a Miata and an Emira is more than the detla between an Emira and an M2.
There are many, many definitions for enthusiast car, and the M2 is absolutely up there on my list.
I genuinely have no idea what you’re trying to say here. Delta of what? The Miata is absolutely an enthusiast car.
The m2 is too numb man. Feels like a video game
If the M2 is not an enthusiast car then there's like five enthusiast cars on the entire market. Just because it doesn't have the feel of M cars of the E generations doesn't mean it's not an enthusiast car. And I say this as someone who does agree with you that it's too numb. But all cars are too numb these days.
To be fair I think that’s their argument lol. They’re looking at it from an absolute, not relative standpoint. The window has moved and instead of saying “well the M2 is still an enthusiast car relative to what else is out there” they’re just saying most new sports cars aren’t enthusiast cars anymore
exactly my argument
Weight. If you're saying "The M2 is too heavy to be an enthusiast car," then the same could be said of an Emira. If the Miata is "absolutely" an enthusiast car, well your Emira weighs more away from the Miata than the M2 does from your Emira.
The m2 is too numb man. Feels like a video game
Ok, fine, that's your opinion. But this dorky "hurr steering numb not an enthusiast car" reddit thing is so silly. CLEARLY it's a car for car enthusiasts. It's just not for you.
numbness doesnt just come from weight. you can definitely take a miata, do all the wrong things to the inputs and end up with a numb driving experience
the thing is, ive tried explaining the concept of a driver's car to non car people. the visceral experience, feedback through the chassis, playfulness on the street, feeling the suspension set, wheels grip up, etc. their takeaway was "oh so you just like a shittier feeling car". if that's the average person's sentiment..then yeah it makes sense why bmw tunes their M cars to cater towards these types of buyers who arent necessarily looking for a driver's car. what some perceive as numbness, they perceive as stability, confidence, refinement, luxury, and so on.
I think it's funny when new M car owners hit the canyons for the first time and say it handles like it's on rails. Then you get actual track drivers reviewing them and they dont have much confidence pushing it around a track due to numbness making it hard to predict. This is not me shitting on the M2, just saying there are all kinds of drivers/buyers out there
M cars have always been catered to this customer, yet with time we learn that BMW was mostly correct. The E30 owners complained the E36 was soft and heavy. The same when the E46 was new.
Attitudes of car buyers and expectations change, and BMW has a pulse on that better than what any singular person would.
But also their is no set direction on what makes a drivers car. An M2 is obviously going to have more livability compromises than a BRZ or a Lotus. They are two different targets.
Definitely, I spent a lot of time in an e30 and it's a very engaging and raw experience. E36 slightly less so, and so on. The ethos of a driver's car is communication and engagement, good inputs, ergonomics, anything that would add to a sport driving experience. However what is actually "fun" is subjective, and it is true vast majority of enthusiasts just want fun for the street and the majority of their use case is regular driving
E30 is raw and engaging, yes. But so was a Civic of the same time period. Compared to a Civic that E30 was a heavy pig!
So I agree with you! Its just that all of the things you listed are so subjective. So its hard for any of us to agree on it.
The new M2 is an enthusiast car, for sure. Not too many normies are going to shell out that much extra money just because. I think it will suit its market well for people like me who want to be able to drive it in all conditions, take it on road trips, have fun on backroads, and perhaps do a track day now and again. JUST like I do with my E46
Well said
Given that there seems to be about 300 lotuses for sale in the entire US, I’m not sure Lotus is a relevant comparison for anything automotive. They functionally don’t exist here, they’re vaporware; yet people act like they’re the relevant to comparison of sports cars.
I really offended all the Lotus fanboys with this
They're definitely not vaporware. Lotus is just a niche, low volume, exclusive brand.
They sell like 100 models a year. That’s vaporware.
Fisker went of business last year with more models in a warehouse (~3000) than Lotus has sold in the US in the last almost 20 years.
Vaporware isn't an available product. They sold 12,000 vehicles globally last year. That's not vaporware. I can go buy a Lotus today, in the US. Not vaporware.
If Lotus was vaporware, they'd have sold zero cars. Literally zero.
Sure
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I’m talking about in the US.
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You can easily buy one lol they are sitting on lots begging to be sold 😂 idk if that qualifies as anything near vapour
I bet there’s no true Scotsman who would agree with you
Only light car left is the Miata. People forget even the 911 is a pig these days too. It’s definitely heavy and numb though
86 and miata wre only true sports car made today yes on sale new... 3k lbs. 911 st as well really hits it.
But yea even a 3 and 4rs rn are both 3200lbs lol insane times. Sad really
Wayyy too heavy haha and exactly... these days the bar is so pathetically low that any manual at all (doesn't even need to be a great one linkage and throw wise for feel etc), decent sounding (who cares if it's a turbo charged whatever lol), sub 4K lbs (lul), 2 door (can can backseats half the time and guys will still pass it as a sports car haha)... gets passed off as enthusiast driven or a a full sports car. The slightest hint of analog == enthusiast car now haha
One single parameter or variable shared with a sports car like say a stick of any kind == sports car 😂
I'd say it's definitely an enthusiast car. Not necessarily a driver's car. On a track it can perform but I've also heard it's harder to manage because it's so numb
This is not a good take. Its a small car, with a great suspension, a great engine, a manual, 2 doors, and sporty looks. I'm not sure what you are expecting, this is what new owners want out of a sports car.
People said the exact same thing about the E36, E46, etc every time a new generation comes out.
We stray further and further of what new owners want out of sports car. M2 is compromised as a true sports car anyways, it doesn’t feel like one at all. Cayman/emira/gr86/grcorolla/miata/typeR/ feel like sports cars. A new m2 does not. And I wish it did because I wanted to buy one but I hate the way it drives and feels.
Perhaps. But what I'm saying is it feels like a modern equivalent of an E30 M3, and E36 M3, etc.
An E46 M3 did not feel like a sports car next to a 2006 cayman either.
Like it or not, this is what M cars have ALWAYS been. They are made for enthusiasts who also want some level of practicality and daily usability. That makes them enthusiasts cars. End of discussion.
Doesn't this also have the auto stop start (ASS) that you have to turn back off everytime you start the car?
and your emira is heavy and numb compared to any racecar, therefore isn't an enthusiast car either right. No true scotsman type shit
Yep, I know exactly which seats she's talking about.
Car is too heavy. Needs to be sub 3500.
I agree with you, unfortunately the only M2s under 3500 are pre-2019 non-Comps
That green screams for a cognac interior. It's a shame they don't offer it.
I've seen a Java Green M2 in person and that would likely be my choice, that or Voodoo Blue. Both colors look great on it.
If anyone was in the market for a new one and wanted the auto, the xDrive version should be out for MY27 cars so it's worth waiting another year. Hopefully they bring back some colorful interiors too.
$80,000...
Yep, but keep in mind that is pretty much fully loaded with an individual color.
And it is atill cheaper than a base BMW M4.
The numbers are out of my range, anyway, but I'd go for a CT4-V Blackwing if I had the money.
CT 4 has no aftermarket support otherwise I would have gotten that instead.
I like cars and women in similar fashion: stock.
Fair enough! I like tinkering and making it my own
I like having the community and the little parts that can make a car your own that comes with a more popular car. The CT4 also had reports of reliability issues, more than what I could find for the M2 that scared me away.
The after market support on BMWs is a big reason I went this route, I have a a clear upgrade/mod path I can go down that plenty of others have done before. Also BMWs are frequently tracked, so there is a decent community of people's experience on that and the strength/weakness of the platform.
Still a car with plenty of compromises, but there really isn't a car in this price range that doesn't have its own different comprises.
Agreed! I love my G87 and the mods have made more “more” if that makes sense.
Totally, I'm planning on doing some front suspension work early next year which I hope fixes some if the numbness and stops me from chewing up my front tires as fast.
And might do a shift linkage kit, but not sure what one I want.
Manual here as well, ssk is on my list too
11.6 quarter mile and they couldn't figure out launch control is pretty nutty.
I do love small chuckable coupes and these are great.
Seems pretty big and un-chuckable at 3,800 pounds and 108” wheelbase.
Right? My current gen WRX sedan is about 3300lbs and with the added weight of AWD. WRX enthusiasts will be the first to tell you it's bloated.
it feels like it's 3,400-,3500 pounds and it's plenty chuckable.
What 3,400-3,500 car does it feel like?
It's insane that an M2 is 600lbs heavier than my M3.
Is it? its got more power, more technology, accelerates faster, and is way safer in the event of an accident.
Ah yes the defining features I look at when comparing sports cars, tech and safety
Those features a are bare minimum for new car. Buyers care about infotainment, radar cruise, safety crash ratings, etc whether you do or not.
And the article claims its an enthusiasts car, not a sports car. As if there is even definitive definitions for either of them.
This car is literally the opposite dude
Man, I love those Emiras. I'd love to get one one day, but they're still out of my price range. And between that point and the Emiras are so many amazing cars. Like low mileage LC500s, good condition AMG GTs, Aston Martin DB11s...
It's going to be hard to hold out 😭
Not really. Everything is relative. This isn't 1997. Compare the m2 against its contemporaries. Not against history.
I think you clicked on the wrong post for this comment 😅
Has anyone driven both current and previous gen? How does it compare to the m2 comp?
It’s great but not much drama. So much more capable especially on track but somehow the steering is more numb, the transmission (zf8) provides no drama. Better power band but not as fun to use. Seats are far better in the new gen too but I wouldn’t get it over the f87 comp
Offtopic, but what would you say is more fun between your M2 and Miata?
Currently on my 2nd F87 M2, and I did have an ND2 previously. I agree with everyone else here that Miata is more fun, but I'll add that if it's your only car the M2 is probably the way to go for most people
Absolutely, I wouldn’t consider a Miata as an only car (I know people are doing it, but I couldn’t). Would you say it would be a good option along the G26 I currently have? I kept going back and forth between Miata and M2 and was thinking that a manual F87 like yours (sweet ride, enjoy) might be better.
Completely depends on how and where you'd be driving the Miata, but I think you'd probably enjoy the contrast of the Miata vs G26. It's probably worth it just to have the lightweight roadster experience, ultimately the M2 would just be a different side of the BMW ownership experience
I don’t love the manual in bmws. F87 is the only car I own in auto cuz the manual was pretty mid. The Miata manual on the other hand is amazing. So much feedback and nice notchy shifts. There’s some mods to improve the f87 shift experience but I never got to experience them
Counterpoint, I've had both DCT and manual M2 and I love both. I think the BMW shifter complaints are overblown, it's fine–in stock form not the best and by far not the worst manual, I replaced the rear shifter bushing and that's also made it better. I agree Miata shifters definitely feel better though
Yea I wouldn’t say it’s bad but there’s better manual experiences out there, on the flip side, I think the bmw DCT is one of the best auto trans, right up there with the pdk
Agreed! I'd go as far as to say I like it better than Porsche's non-GT3/4 versions of the PDK
I agree I think it’s overblown. I didn’t mind the manual in the m2. I thought it was a lot more fun than the dct.
It's wild to me that BMW is not going to offer a DCT or a Manual on the M cars going forward, Torque Converter Auto only. 🤮
Agreed on the F87 manual. I had one for a few years and ended up wishing I'd gone for the DCT because the manual didn't add to the experience of the car.
Previously owned an F87. Miata by a landslide.
I’ve also owned both, even at the same time. And I agree Miata !
Would you say that if you were in the mood to just go out and drive, you would’ve chosen the Miata instead of the M2? Trying to make up my mind about those two
Ive owned the m2 for 5 years and the Miata for 2. I’ve put more miles on the Miata in 2 years than the m2 in 5 lol. It’s just such a blast on road. M2 is an amazing car but for short trips and in town driving it’s a pain. Barely even get up to temp in time for any short drives. Another underrated aspect of the Miata is I don’t mind parking it anywhere. The m2 is still in great condition despite the heavy track use so I’m sometimes still a little worried about door dings. The Miata is so small that you’re not gonna need to worry lol. The m2 is great but it’s so heavy it’s not very tossable as some people say. And when you’re paying $1500-2000 for a set of tires it gets expensive to toss lol
1000% not even close. M2 isn’t that great. It’s practical which is nice but it’s driving feel is compromised.
Go test drive them. A single drive in a Miata should tell you all you need to know.
Haha, yeah, that’s not happening in my country. Closest I can get is test driving a Mazda 3 and a 2 series, lol
If you don't mind me asking, what country?
Crazy to think people have to buy a car without test driving it.
Pretty much all of EU, a mix of low / inexistent stock, tire kickers, shitty dealers. It boggles my mind when I read of US guys “yeah I was just blasting down the highway when I saw the newest M5 at the dealership, so I had to stop and take it for a spin”, lol
Thank you sir!
Miata is significantly more fun on road. At the track m2 wins. For regular speeds the m2 is pretty numb
Yeah, I was asking for road, on track I know which I would choose, but I only do a couple of track days per year so I want something that is potentially fun while running errands too.
This is basically the use case for the M2. Despite what people say its a great DD/fun car combination.
Yes. This gen isn’t as fun to drive
Driven both, own a G87. Toss up on performance but the G87 is a better overall performance car on the street
I hear the call, and it sounds like, “stay away.”
Fat fat fatty fat. The M2, which is numbered less than 3, is almost 3,800lbs. Modern safety features? No. The weight is a byproduct of the necessity for prodigality- if some power is good, all power is better. And then you need to cool that power, transmit that power, damp that power, stop that power. All power begets all weight.
Swapping steering speed for feel isn’t great, either- the very last thing I ever want to compare a car to is fast food, and yet here we are. If I have no other choice, I will eat fast food- but it is the last resort. It fills my belly but doesn’t feed my soul. I make good food- when I go out to eat, I need to experience that which I cannot make. There has to be ambiance, skill, kindness of interaction, unique ingredients or preparation, something that makes me feel something about the experience other than a monetary transaction.
Fast steering makes the car feel quicker, more athletic, and goes hand in hand with harsh suspension, gigantic brakes, and too much grip. It doesn’t make for a better dance partner, it makes more thrilling the short experiences a modern driver is likely to encounter- an on-ramp, a cloverleaf. But it’s tiring and unfulfilling; a good street car needs to be able to approach its limits in a not-entirely-antisocial way. 1+ g of cornering is distinctly antisocial- seven-tenths is still 0.7g. Pick a local corner, use mapping software to determine its radius, then solve 0.7=v2 / 15R where v is the speed and R is the radius of the corner. You’ll probably be surprised.
Fat steering wheels need to die. I love thin wheels, like in an Elan or early 911. Even my track car’s wheel is thinner than an M2’s. Thin is tactile. Thin offers the promise of conversation. It is not a bomber’s heavy yoke but a fighter’s stick.
Live Cockpit Pro sounds like a pricing tier for F1TV and I despise it.
Fully agree with all of this. Which makes me think the G87 M2 is not for us. My 997 at 3250lbs was a bit heavy for my taste, did a good bit to lighten it and have a ways more to go. I suppose there are just not that many new-ish cars that are made for people that want to prioritize lightness and genuine feedback from the car. Maybe 5 non supercars... Alpine A110, Emira, ND Miata, 86, and maybe a couple others I can't think of now.. then it goes straight to the madhouse with things like 911 ST which by pricing is a supercar.
If the M2 is not for us… what does it say about BMW M that their smallest offering is unacceptably heavy and numb?
BMW has never made lightweight cars and I fully understand that. I also understand that BMW has not made a car that interests me since the E39 M5- even if I adore the way an E46 M3 looks, I’d rather have an S54 in an E36. I am biased, and heavily so.
I regard this as a societal issue- the society that requires horror movies to have at least one face being viscerally smashed in, owns a cookie-cutter home in the suburbs, orders from Temu to “save money,” continues to use a bloated and frankly unrecognizable Amazon, and gobbles up pay-to-play video games cannot abide genuine feel. The falseness inherent in the system is laid bare by connection.
It is precisely because my life is surrounded with artificiality that I am so insistent on the subjective aspects of driving, and why I am so disappointed so often.
Agreed, it is a societal issue reflected in stuff like you mentioned, cookie cutter houses in the burbs. More than it says something about BMW and their efforts it highlights a societal acceptance of an exchange of quality for a shiny wrapper. Goal posts moving that benefit automotive manufacturers to shift from the idea that sporty relates to how a car involves the driver to sporty meaning only performance metrics. It's much cheaper to add horsepower than it is lightness while maintaining similar NVH. If folks are still buying and also eating it up and saying things like "The M2 is a sports car" the manufacturers are perfectly satisfied with the outcome.
The whole situation recalls Walter from The Big Lebowski, seeming like a lunatic for sticking to his principles (even if misguided).. "I'm talking about drawing a line in the sand, Dude", and how societally everything is up for negotiation at this point, including what constitutes a fact.
With there being so few cars that embody the importance of involvement and lightness, I'm encouraged to do something I haven't ever seriously considered, buying a new car (Emira or ND Miata) because even the engineering driven organizations like Porsche are deprioritizing the old principles in their sporting vehicles except for products made for millionaires..
Blind enthusiasts
Could you imagine what an e36 or e46 refresh would look like instead of this…poor design of an M car??
I would spend all my money on an new from the factory E36 or E46 with some sort of no screen wireless CarPlay that lets me project map directions on a HUD and heated and ventilated seats.
I think most of this is possible. There are lots of carplay drop in units for the E46 that look factory. And i've seen a few people swapping in F80 M3 seats which look great.
Fun drive. The price points however, BMW has to address that downmarket interior space.
Heavy and ugly. No thanks!
It's just good.
Such a shame that this was such a bad follow-up to the last gen M2
ugly bloated whale carcass that sounds like a broken garbage disposal. 2 tons of not a lot of fun.
It was the performance car of the year? Motor Trend obviously dropped the ball by not asking you to help with their review!
how does being performance car of the year relate to my statement? why would they contact me? i am familiar with the automobile, i am not their market.
Ahh because your statement about being “2 tons of not a lot of fun” contradicts the performance car of the year award and maybe you’re a better judge of vehicles overall dynamics then the people at Motor Trend.
Pardon the run on sentence! Also, the S58 has a pretty nice exhaust note, have you heard one in person?
What market at you?
Does it really contradict the award though?
Maybe awards are the true gospel, and we're all just wrong about the 2026 Dodge charger, as that won car of the year this year so clearly it must be the best.
Or maybe, awards mean less than nothing because they're just purchased by manufacturers.
If they were indeed purchased by the oem, you’d see the M2 named car of the year etc all over. It’s not though.
Im biased, I own one and I noticed most of the people that comment about size/sound/looks etc aren’t buying cars like these. They will complain about the lack of manual cars and then slam the M2 as being fat and then get back into their automatic Civics/Camrys
I don't really understand your logic. So you think the Dodge charger is indeed the car of the year?
About your 2nd paragraph, there's definitely an issue with regular-traffic drivers shitting on special cars. I mean hell, I'd guess that 30% of the automotive hate that cars get is from kids riding in the back of their parents cars. That said, I think the newer M cars are fat, look worse than I'd like, and sound pretty shit, so I bought a 2nd generation BRZ. Much lighter, better looking, sounds much better after an exhaust, and cheaper to both purchase and maintain.
Different target audience I guess?
Yeah, I think that's exactly it. I think the twins target audience is people focused on driving enjoyment, as it's hard to get more pure than a front engine, rwd, NA, lightweight sports car. I don't think the M cars are terrible or anything, but they're certainly something different. From the outside looking in, they seem to me to be the flashier appearing option that is more dull in reality. Very impressive track performance though!
Even though I have one, I still want a NA Miata
Geez, where to start with this bowl of nonsense. Noone with ears thinks the s58 sounds even remotely tolerable.
In this case I am a better judge, the m2 is barely faster than a civic, that does not add up to anything of the year.
What market AT me? I buy cars that i can see out of and don't look like melted Legos. Bmw has been a marketing department for a couple decades now, congrats on being fooled.
lol.
Bless your heart.
Way to fill it with facts, typical homer.
Are you talking about the S55? The exhaust note on that was horrible due to firing order.
I get you don’t like the M2, but discounting all the positive press from professionals seems a little off.
Which civic is almost as fast as a G8X? The type r is a great car but I’d be hard pressed to say that it’s a competitor?
What’s the last car you bought?
the s55 has the same firing order as every other inline 6, 153624. it sounds terrible for a litany of reasons, none being the firing order.
the ctr is much closer in lap times than it has any right to be, tire for tire it is basically a drivers race. it is not a competitor based on price or horsepower. god bless honda for making the ringer internet argument mobile.
my current fleet is 1995 m3, 1995 gtr, 2006 350z(track only), 2011 prius.. the prius was a gift, and i have only purchased motorcycles in the last 3 years. i have driven every model of bmw sold in the us since at least 2002.
I owned a g80 and have to agree.