Incredible how we’re just repeating the same mistakes of the past w/ tanev. How close do people think this team is? Reality is Canucks need another 2byears of tanking after this one. Keep M.Petey and Myers if you’re worried about culture. Hronek only serves to hurt the tank and depreciate when he could return assets to actually accelerate the rebuild.
Rossi is a mercenary tbh. 24 is young until all of a sudden we still suck ass in 2 years and now he’s a 26 year old pending RFA and is looking for the biggest and longest payday of his career. I will be absolutely shocked if Rossi plays for this team for longer than a few years.
Yeah I fully agree. Rossi is a piece they could use to go big game hunting. If something like (Rossi and Sherwood) for (Hage + whatever next highest asset they’re willing to part with) is even remotely possible they should be making that kind of move.
People keep saying oh he’s 24 so he fits the window. We don’t have a damn window. We don’t have a franchise player let alone an elite player. There is no window until we have one or hopefully multiple. Until then we need actual prospects and lots of them.
I would think if you move him, you'd have to be asking for at least a middle six center prospect and a 1st rounder, though, any 1st rounder you do get is probably coming from a contender and a late round one anyways.
I'm not sure I see the point of that given how young he is. Unless someone comes in and blows you away with a deal, probably doesn't hurt to give him a couple years, see what he can do.
We're most likely all outsiders. I think the general sentiment is that we want the Canucks to build a team that can win a Stanley cup in the modern league.
There are a different ways of doing it, but we should not rule out a longer rebuild if a shorter one is not feasible. Listening is different than actively selling.
I have no problem keeping a 24 year old guy if he was a Horvat or Suzuki type. That's not Rossi. Perfectly happy to listen to potential offers for him.
They should listen on anyone. When you are the 31st ranked team with no needle movers everyone should be available for the right price. Buium you would be reluctant but he's hardly untouchable, same with Willander.
I think so too. Isn't his wife a doctor? I think I remember him saying something about wanting to be in the same place so she could also start her career.
I think his NMC years line up with her residency. Would be entirely unsurprised if he doesn't waive and equally unsurprised if management didn't plan this out.
I don't think so, he overlaps what Hyman does almost directly. The Canucks already struggle with that taking Boeser out of the net front PP, which has basically neutered Boeser on the PP. What are the oilers trading anyways? Their most valuable young piece is Podkolzin and he's got almost as many goals as DeBrusk.
I think if you pair Debrusk and McDavid it would be an absolute cheat code just purely based on their wheels. Plus Debrusk is hella clutch in the playoffs no?
Again, that's basically what Hyman does in the exact same position - maybe at a similar level? Hyman's probably better on the PP in that spot than DeBrusk so he may not even fit into PP1. Hymans sitting on 13 goals in 25 games - obviously struggled last year but had 54 goals the year before. Ultra clutch in the playoffs with 21 goals in 40 playoff games their last 2 runs.
I just don't see how they bring in DeBrusk with their limited cap and assets when he's basically just a lesser but younger Hyman.
Doesn’t hurt to have both of those guys. We could take Mangiapane back and retain on Jake tbh. Gives flexibility for a deal. All we would want is a 27 first and a prospect.
I mean, it kind of does. If they use all of their cap flexibility to swap Mangiapane for DeBrusk that's a huge sunk value taht I don't think they can maximize.
They both go to the net and primarily smack in the garbage goals. They both rely on playing net front PP1 for their goal production. DeBrusk actually needs to be more of a puck retriever.
Fair. I don't think they honestly can afford to trade any of their youth, they're not flush on picks, they're right on cap space, and I honestly think they have bigger needs.
He hasn't said anything, but when he signed, he did so, thinking that this was going to be a team that was on the rise. Since then, they missed the playoffs in his first season here, and the team is going to miss the playoffs again. He's 29 years of age, and by the time this team is ready to contend, he will be well into his thirties. If a contending team made an offer to the team, I think he would at least consider it.
I don’t want to see this management group trade or sign for another player until Aquilini forks over some cash to revamp the pro scouting staff. Their pro scouting record is abysmal.
Starts around 9:17 (text was automatically generated):
You're willing to listen on a variety of guys. "Is he somebody you're willing to listen
on?" And the indication that I've been
given is yes, they, the Jake de DeBrusk
is a player, that they are willing to
listen on.
I don't know what the price tag is. I don't know what the or
the asking price is uh to to this extent. I think it's still relatively
early. But the the notion that I've gotten from other teams is that there's at least a willingness to have that conversation and then if it starts to tickle their fancy then they'll bring it
up the food chain and the food chain.
That includes the DeBrusk himself because he's got full say with the no move. But
from from what I've been told from other
teams there's a willingness to listen on that front.
And is there
is that contract length or number
completely palatable for a lot of teams
or would there be retention needed in in
that case?
I don't think there would be a
a need. I don't think there'd be a
desire to retain on it from the
Canucks perspective, but I think it's
it's a palatable contract if you're
bringing in if you believe in his
capabilities.
If you believe and accept
the fact that he is a roller coaster
type of player in terms of production,
you're going to get spurts that are
really good and spurts that are a little
soft numbers wise. But I think there's an
understanding as to the type of player
he is.
He generated a lot of interest
when he was a free agent. There are teams that still view him as a
a quality top six second line type of
asset that they can have from a
secondary scoring role. So, I think
there's going to be, you know, or there
would be decent interest in this player,
and I don't think the contract is a
deterrent at all.
Allvin once again signing a contract that is potentially looking to be offloaded within 2 years. It's not even an awful contract, this has just been what he's done the whole time he's been our GM.
Joshua
Silovs
Soucy
Heinen
Desharnais
Miller (different circumstances tbf)
Sprong
Podkolzin
Mikheyev
Kuzmenko
All guys who were signed and traded by Allvin within 2 years. Don't know if that's a good/bad thing or just a coincidence tbh.
I get identifying a mistake and moving on as soon as you can, but when it's happened as often as it has you're gonna damage your rep pretty bad, and future free agents aren't likely gonna come here. That's why we gotta be really careful if we want to go down this path with Garland too.
Ofc we should be listening. Jake's just as streaky as Boeser and cheaper than him too and since we're tanking why the hell not. I'd be thrilled if we got a 2nd.
Jets traded for schenn giving up a 2nd round pick. It is looking more like a late 1st rounder if Jets stay dead last lmao cuz sens lost their 1st round pick. So Jets 2nd round would be a 32nd 1st rounder lmaooo
This entire roster outside outside of the really young players should be open for business. This team needs to be taken down to the studs and they need to start over.
Insert player name and then insert this quote for them. Thats literally Managements JOB. To listen in on their players. I’m sure if San Jose called Edmonton and were like we’ll drop you Celebrini, Smith etc for Mcdavid they’d listen too. Click bait
Ive been watching most of Debrusks games since he entered the league (watch Bruins & Canucks games). He's one of those strange players that you love and hate.
Hes a clear second liner but also needs to be surrounded with gritty, fast talent. Hes one of the strakiest scorers ive watched, but completely invisible when not scoring. He also cant really play pp1 because hes not a good playmaker and loses the puck often when its setup in the offensive zone. He can be pretty flashy but then just fold under pressure. I dont think ive ever seen him win a puck battle in the corners.
Whenever hes inserted into the first line he cant seem to fit in. Hes played some pk but doesnt seem to he able to stay as a permanent member.
When Vancouver got him, a lot of people were pretty excited. I was pretty tempered when it happened, ive seen hundreds of hours of Debrusk. He can be electric, but offers zilch when those 20-30 seconds spurts end.
He also seems like a good guy and you also ways root for him tho.
Id honestly have no clue what his return would be. If he was dealt to a top contender with a wicked second line, i believe hed greatly improve the line if there was a spot.
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Anybody over 25 can go at this point if there are offers.
Canucks need to hire Leonardo DiCaprio.
Kevin in Surrey?
Mike in White Rock
I believe they should be willing listen on every guy except for you guys like Buium and Rossi
If Hronek wants to stay, I’d keep him too. He turned 28 a couple months ago and he’s a solid veteran
This. Think about how crucial Tanev was to Hughes’ development. The young guys need solid veterans to play with in order to develop properly.
yup, not sure if myers and m pettersson provides that in the same way hronek does
Myers maybe but his days here are limited - He's got at best one or two contracts left in him.
Myers is our tank captain and I’ll be damned if we trade him
He’s good at covering for the young D’s, while also recognizing the need to lose and thus only uses 8% of his full powers
The Chaos Giraffe giveth and the Chaos Giraffe taketh away.
When you have to go to war each night knowing you're probably going to lose Hronek is a guy you want on the team.
Would love to keep hronek
That just sounds like a missed 1st and a prospect.
Incredible how we’re just repeating the same mistakes of the past w/ tanev. How close do people think this team is? Reality is Canucks need another 2byears of tanking after this one. Keep M.Petey and Myers if you’re worried about culture. Hronek only serves to hurt the tank and depreciate when he could return assets to actually accelerate the rebuild.
I mean 28 is technically leaving his statistical prime.
If you wanted to sell Hronek/Garland/Demko/MPetey/Debrusk while they had any value you'd do it now.
I'm not sure what these guys could teach a winner like Buium. They've all been key parts of disappointing, underperforming teams
Nah, I wouldn’t listen on Willander (same age as Zeev and offensively putting up similar numbers) or DPetey either.
You build from the backend. Keep our studs.
Meant them as well, thats why I as guys like Buium
Why not Rossi? Or did you mean Ohgren
Ohgren too, but Rossi is still only 24, so young enough to keep him I would say
Rossi is a mercenary tbh. 24 is young until all of a sudden we still suck ass in 2 years and now he’s a 26 year old pending RFA and is looking for the biggest and longest payday of his career. I will be absolutely shocked if Rossi plays for this team for longer than a few years.
Montreal wanted him, flip him to them for some of their good stuff.
Yeah I fully agree. Rossi is a piece they could use to go big game hunting. If something like (Rossi and Sherwood) for (Hage + whatever next highest asset they’re willing to part with) is even remotely possible they should be making that kind of move.
People keep saying oh he’s 24 so he fits the window. We don’t have a damn window. We don’t have a franchise player let alone an elite player. There is no window until we have one or hopefully multiple. Until then we need actual prospects and lots of them.
Would love that trade for us.
WHy in the world would Rossi be untouchable?????
Rossi is a 2nd tier 2C or a high end 3C. Unless he can prove otherwise next season, the Canucks need to be willing to move him.
Chytil isn't a high end 2c either. Petey def is tho
So you want to have a 10 year rebuild?
Rebuilding teams keep their 23-24 established centers.
I trust Minnesota's analysis of the player. They concluded he wasn't good enough.
Yes, you don't trade your 2nd line center for a 2nd round pick that will likely turn into a 3rd line winger.
I would think if you move him, you'd have to be asking for at least a middle six center prospect and a 1st rounder, though, any 1st rounder you do get is probably coming from a contender and a late round one anyways.
I'm not sure I see the point of that given how young he is. Unless someone comes in and blows you away with a deal, probably doesn't hurt to give him a couple years, see what he can do.
Nobody would give the Wild a 1st rounder for Rossi 3 months ago.
There is no way they're giving the Canucks a 1st and a 2nd line center prospect.
If that's the case, that feels like it's even less reason to try to move him, unless I missed something.
We're most likely all outsiders. I think the general sentiment is that we want the Canucks to build a team that can win a Stanley cup in the modern league.
There are a different ways of doing it, but we should not rule out a longer rebuild if a shorter one is not feasible. Listening is different than actively selling.
I have no problem keeping a 24 year old guy if he was a Horvat or Suzuki type. That's not Rossi. Perfectly happy to listen to potential offers for him.
How is trading Marco Rossi, a middle-6 centre the inflection point for the hybrid-retool-on-the-fly vs mid-2010s Buffalo.
He's an undersized player, who while credible hasn't shown much here.
I think if someone offers you high picks/good prospects you reroll him
I don't disagree with you, I just want to keep the base of good young players so we can compete for a playoff spot in 3 years. 🤷🏻
They should listen on anyone. When you are the 31st ranked team with no needle movers everyone should be available for the right price. Buium you would be reluctant but he's hardly untouchable, same with Willander.
Exactly this! Burn it all down.
Take whatever you can get for Debrusk so long as there's no salary retention.
He has a full NMC clause, no? Has he indicated he wants to actually move?
nah, but if a playoff/contending team wants him, i’d bet he’d be willing to waive, don’t see why he’d want to stay to a rebuilding team
I thought he specifically wanted to be in western canada.
I think so too. Isn't his wife a doctor? I think I remember him saying something about wanting to be in the same place so she could also start her career.
yeah pretty sure his girlfriend is a doctor in calgary
I think his NMC years line up with her residency. Would be entirely unsurprised if he doesn't waive and equally unsurprised if management didn't plan this out.
DeBrusk would be such a good fit for the Oilers
They better not do that
I don't think so, he overlaps what Hyman does almost directly. The Canucks already struggle with that taking Boeser out of the net front PP, which has basically neutered Boeser on the PP. What are the oilers trading anyways? Their most valuable young piece is Podkolzin and he's got almost as many goals as DeBrusk.
I think if you pair Debrusk and McDavid it would be an absolute cheat code just purely based on their wheels. Plus Debrusk is hella clutch in the playoffs no?
Again, that's basically what Hyman does in the exact same position - maybe at a similar level? Hyman's probably better on the PP in that spot than DeBrusk so he may not even fit into PP1. Hymans sitting on 13 goals in 25 games - obviously struggled last year but had 54 goals the year before. Ultra clutch in the playoffs with 21 goals in 40 playoff games their last 2 runs.
I just don't see how they bring in DeBrusk with their limited cap and assets when he's basically just a lesser but younger Hyman.
Doesn’t hurt to have both of those guys. We could take Mangiapane back and retain on Jake tbh. Gives flexibility for a deal. All we would want is a 27 first and a prospect.
I mean, it kind of does. If they use all of their cap flexibility to swap Mangiapane for DeBrusk that's a huge sunk value taht I don't think they can maximize.
Not the same player at all. Hyman is primarily a forechecking puck retriever. Thats why he plays with McJesus (and Matthews previously).
Debrusk doesn’t do that.
They both go to the net and primarily smack in the garbage goals. They both rely on playing net front PP1 for their goal production. DeBrusk actually needs to be more of a puck retriever.
The Oilers most valuable young pieces are Matt Savoie and Isaac Howard, but these would not be in a deal for DeBrusk or even Sherwood.
Fair. I don't think they honestly can afford to trade any of their youth, they're not flush on picks, they're right on cap space, and I honestly think they have bigger needs.
unironically i actually think that is a good fit but i doubt they have the ability or willingness to make the cap work.
He hasn't said anything, but when he signed, he did so, thinking that this was going to be a team that was on the rise. Since then, they missed the playoffs in his first season here, and the team is going to miss the playoffs again. He's 29 years of age, and by the time this team is ready to contend, he will be well into his thirties. If a contending team made an offer to the team, I think he would at least consider it.
Trade everyone for picks only.
I don’t want to see this management group trade or sign for another player until Aquilini forks over some cash to revamp the pro scouting staff. Their pro scouting record is abysmal.
Everything we acquire soon becomes negative value. It’s a cornerstone of the last 10 years.
Starts around 9:17 (text was automatically generated):
Allvin once again signing a contract that is potentially looking to be offloaded within 2 years. It's not even an awful contract, this has just been what he's done the whole time he's been our GM.
Joshua
Silovs
Soucy
Heinen
Desharnais
Miller (different circumstances tbf)
Sprong
Podkolzin
Mikheyev
Kuzmenko
All guys who were signed and traded by Allvin within 2 years. Don't know if that's a good/bad thing or just a coincidence tbh.
I get identifying a mistake and moving on as soon as you can, but when it's happened as often as it has you're gonna damage your rep pretty bad, and future free agents aren't likely gonna come here. That's why we gotta be really careful if we want to go down this path with Garland too.
They’re last in the league. They’re listening on everyone.
"They're dithering on everyone"
fixed that for ya.
Lol!
I'd trade any veteran at this point for cap space that can then be weaponized to take on bad contracts and obtain more picks.
How many times do we hear management will listen on <insert player>. No shit, it is literally the job.
Pagnotta is as unreliable as they come in this business
Quick he’s on the debrusk cycle again.
Ofc we should be listening. Jake's just as streaky as Boeser and cheaper than him too and since we're tanking why the hell not. I'd be thrilled if we got a 2nd.
Jets traded for schenn giving up a 2nd round pick. It is looking more like a late 1st rounder if Jets stay dead last lmao cuz sens lost their 1st round pick. So Jets 2nd round would be a 32nd 1st rounder lmaooo
This entire roster outside outside of the really young players should be open for business. This team needs to be taken down to the studs and they need to start over.
Insert player name and then insert this quote for them. Thats literally Managements JOB. To listen in on their players. I’m sure if San Jose called Edmonton and were like we’ll drop you Celebrini, Smith etc for Mcdavid they’d listen too. Click bait
A trade is happening today. Sherwood or Debrusk
Pagnotta lol
I trade Hronek too if he wants to leave. Want the guy to able to compete and win a cup. He signed the contract because he can play with Hughes.
Ive been watching most of Debrusks games since he entered the league (watch Bruins & Canucks games). He's one of those strange players that you love and hate.
Hes a clear second liner but also needs to be surrounded with gritty, fast talent. Hes one of the strakiest scorers ive watched, but completely invisible when not scoring. He also cant really play pp1 because hes not a good playmaker and loses the puck often when its setup in the offensive zone. He can be pretty flashy but then just fold under pressure. I dont think ive ever seen him win a puck battle in the corners.
Whenever hes inserted into the first line he cant seem to fit in. Hes played some pk but doesnt seem to he able to stay as a permanent member.
When Vancouver got him, a lot of people were pretty excited. I was pretty tempered when it happened, ive seen hundreds of hours of Debrusk. He can be electric, but offers zilch when those 20-30 seconds spurts end.
He also seems like a good guy and you also ways root for him tho.
Id honestly have no clue what his return would be. If he was dealt to a top contender with a wicked second line, i believe hed greatly improve the line if there was a spot.
No one's taking Brock's contract, so he's a keeper. If I had to choose between keeping Garland or Debrusk, I'd trade Jake.
Trade both. Maximize assets. Tank forever.
You're right. That's a good way to tank forever.
It would be stupid for the Canucks not to be able to listen on literally any player on the roster
Canucks insane if they think they will get much for Sherwood.
Lets adjust expectations. Think playoffs not cup. Many excellent teams never win a cup. Lets just get some playoff hockey.
He kind of sucks. Who’s going to want him?