Funny because sherwood and quinn are likely higher, in the model i was looking at at least
Does that mean sherwood is better than Bedard?
WAR is extremely flawed in the hockey context, its really only baseball that its useful at. Its also subjective based on how that model weighs certain things.
Most of these models are flawed for individual output for NHLers. Mainly because they dont take into account team variables on a whole which are difficult to track in general cuz it involves another 25 inputs.
Stats for individuals are great for plays that are individually based like in football and baseball. teams sports too many variables to track
Yup, thats why WAR works perfectly for baseball and really only baseball. It's the only sport that's inherently 1v1, as in, batter vs pitcher. There's some different situations (like someone on 1st or 2nd, bases loaded, etc.) but at the end of the day, it's still batter vs pitcher
WAR is a great stat to tell you how much a player has impacted a game. But hockey is game that is impacted by luck way more than baseball, so WAR is far from a perfect tool in this sport. That said, it's impressive Petey's WAR is this high considering his actual scoring has been soo low.
The world is full of idiots, behind the scenes they knew about the lack of effort in practice and the offseasons, the truth is we shoulda kept Horvat and Miller, traded him and gotten a bigger return than we did for quinn
No no I'm saying a potential 100 point player in his 20's (pettey) would have fetched a bigger return than we got In the Quinn deal... Necas Pesce a prospect and a first were kinda the rumors... That would have aged nicely at that point
It’s well known Miller didn’t get along with Horvat so one of them had to go… it was the same situation as miller and pettersson. They were never keeping Horvat and miller.
Projected Cap growth and the fact that it expires when Petey is 33 makes this contract somewhat tolerable. Unless we are picking up garbage contracts for picks, there's no reason we should be a cap team in the upcoming seasons so the opportunity cost is pretty low.
Take it with a grain of salt. Players outside the top 68 forwards include Mikko Rantanen and Filip Forsberg.
Outside the top 100 forwards include Clayton Keller, William Nylander, Brady Tkachuk, Nico Hischier, Roope Hintz. Mathew Knies is number 184. Kempe and Tavares outside the top 200. Kadri and Tuch around 240. Sam Bennett 261. Brayden Point 283. Evgeni Malkin 29pt in 26gp sitting at 365. Ovi at 387. Konecny at 391. Boeser 432. Mason McTavish sitting in the bottom 10 for all forwards this season.
Evander Kane is last place at 495 lol
Tyler Bertuzzi and Brock nelson both top 10 among all forwards. Sherwood at 25.
This model is a bit weird in that it penalizes shooting really heavily, and favors guys who shoot very little hence the Kane being last, and Petey being so high up.
Petey essentially has very low of even strength offense war, decent even strength defensive war, good amount of PP WAR and almost half of it is Shooting WAR (Petey has 1.27 total WAR with 0.59 of it being Shooting WAR, kind of ridiculous how this model weighs it). I don't necessarily agree with how this model chooses to calculate WAR, since getting shots off should always be a positive in my eyes.
Kaprisov for example, has 24 goals, but he shoots a ton, but ends up with a lower shooting WAR than Petey as a result, despite having 2x the goals.
It also rewards guys who get PP1 time so WAR is going to be inflated for guys with that, and then guys who don't get PP1 time are always gonna be at a disadvantage
I don't think this is the right approach at claiming Petey needs better linemates, WAR is very flawed.
Penalizing shooting makes absolutely no sense lol wtf. Getting a high volume of shots is one of the only ways to generally guarantee more goals, any model should mostly reward shooting. Hockey has way too many variables for war to be good unless it was crazy detailed and took into account like was goalie screened on each shot, was it shot less than 1 second after a pass, how far was the pass before the shot etc. Which is basically impossible unless AI can be taught to analyze the game video and do it.
Petey haters are gonna lose their minds when we draft elite wingers for Petey to play with, imagine Stenberg on his line every night would be a joy to watch
Kuzmenko on a 1 year deal this summer then trade him to a contender at the deadline, seems like a W for both parties.
Can give him a lot of $ too and retain half, not like it matters for us. Even if you just get a 3rd, that's worth it, essentially just buying a draft pick
We don't have to wait that long. He's on a team with pretty strong winger depth and pretty shit center depth for the Olympics. We can literally see what Petey looks like on a better team in a month.
Just wait until he’s back from injury, okay no wait until the playoffs, fuck okay that didn’t work, wait until he’s had a full summer of training and- fuck fuck okay wait until the four nations…okay wait 4 years until we have a star winger and THEN you Petey haters will look stupid!
I don’t hate Petey but he is far from the player we drafted and he has fallen off significantly in just a few short years. His contract will handcuff our team for years to come. This isn’t even a one off year… it’s been years like this now. He’s a 5 million dollar player imo. As a star centre he should be able to do well with anyone and not require a bunch of other major stars to make him look good.
I'm a pettey hater through and through, Stenberg is an ideal linemates he drives play does everything including getting loose pucks that pettey can't skate to cause he sucks at skating. Stenberg isn't jt Miller but alot of the qualities that paired well when pettey and him played together Stenberg has
I hate those who hate EP40 I am a true canucks fan I watch all 82 every year you cannot tell me with a straight face that petey isn't our best forward lol these people make me laugh their takes are horrible
The internet has warped people’s brains in such an interesting way. If you’re right, and it’s all about the wingers he’s playing with, why would I “lose my mind” if he starts being elite again? I’m a fan of the team. I want to win. I don’t hate Petey. I will be happy if you’re right. He just keeps proving over and over he’s not that guy and a bunch of other “elite” players also having disappointing seasons doesn’t make that less true.
I'm with you , hes a second line center that will probably give you 70-80 points for the next 5 years or so but that's not what we paid him to be. 3-4 years ago he looked like he was a game breaking player and could be the best player on the ice at any moment. His skating while never amazing has regressed so much so that he falls 3 times a shift and doesn't have the foot speed to create as much as he used to. He still has the shot and still has his hands but yeah it was an overpay. I was hoping at the time we got him at around 9-9.5 and the management wouldn't budge but they did. He was once just outside of being a top 10 player in the league and now he's lucky to be in the top 50 , it is what it is
Other GMs have these stats available. If they were representative and the rumours of Petey being shopped (for what the third time?) are true there would be a rush to grab him.
I watch the games and the EP40 hate his blown out of proportion by fans who follow score sheets as their stats.
But if you want to keep going back to when he was injured as the benchmark of what kind of player he is. Can I go back 12 months before that when he was on pace for 120pts? Or maybe we should both just take him as he is today. A guy who is showing improvements month by month, as he is getting back to his former elite self, but with an even greater defensive upside and faceoff performer.
Eh, I think the score sheet was more flattering than his actual play last game. There's definitely people on either end of the extremes here though. He's been disappointing, he's not delivering value, he's still a good NHL player. He's also either incredibly inconsistent and/or struggling with injuries that may never resolve which at the end of the day just means the future is pretty mid.
How many seasons of him being disappointing do we have to watch before we stop getting labelled “haters” for expecting elite production for elite money?
Excuse me? Even if you thought the contract was market value at the time, you cant possibly in billion years think its going well enough to justify it at his current play.
Fans who complain we lost 3 great centers in the last few years in Horvat, Miller and Lindholm are the same people want to push away their last top 6 NHL center.
Exactly. Everyone wants to trade our best player and the only guy on the roster who has shown he has the capability to be a superstar. If we didn’t have him we’d be a way bigger joke than we already are. We’d have 4 4th line centers without Petey. After we got Rossi now we have a 2/3 c. And 3 4th line centers.
its just one thing making him less effective? If he moved his feet he would score a end to end goal each shift? or... ? Can anyone else on the team keep up with him and be open to take a pass if he moves his feet and dangles a guy?
He's a playmaking centerman that doesn't drive play... That kills us in the neutral zone especially since JT left no one else does that... Something happened to him and he's lost his stride and nowhere near the player he once was, making that a bad contract. It would be like trying to justify teddy blueger at 7 million
Bro, it's not very complicated. Back when he had more points, he'd move his feet and skate with the puck. Since he stopped his production went down, and he drives less offence.
We're about to see Petey paired with elite wingers in the Olympics. Let's see how much that helps him because it didn't really work out in the 4 Nations.
He’s also older than Bedard, who is still developing. And you’re just cherry-picking a single player, while the post is illustrating that he performs similarly to a group of players.
You’re precisely the type of hater that the tweet is calling out.
They are cherry picking war and by that logic he sits 44th on the league with the 5th highest contract.. .if we play that game he's by far the worst deal on the nhl
I'm more upset on management electing to go with him when they knew all the behind the scenes stuff, lack of commitment on offseasons, poor practice habbits, secluded from teammates, and the big one, they would know whats actually wrong with his knee back legs whatever and to what degree that was going to be for him long term. They shouldn't have hitched their wagon to this guy and they had all the inside knowledge telling them not to
honestly if he wasn't 11.6 and did cause the circus that led us to loosing miller and hughes i don't think peole would be unhappy with him. he's a good player but he wasn't worth a 11.6M. Many said before the signing 9-10m tops. also if benning didn't run out of time and waste our cap we could have signed petterson to a long term deal for much lower aav rather than that deal that brought him into the 11.6.
I also have to say that this post is exactly why the Canucks are where they are. Grasping at straws that would theoretically work I a perfect world. I feel that people like OP are exactly what’s wrong with the Canucks. If the guy was as good as you say he would make people around him better. The whole shitspiral that is the Canucks revolves around ep40. So if what you’re seeing is what you want out of the Canucks then keep jumping on the ep40 wagon. Your side has been winning for decades, the team keeps abiding by your principles and here we are. I will probably get kicked out of the sub for this, but I am sick of the ridiculously low bar that is set for Canucks
Players. Just because they don’t spit at the idea of wearing the jersey people like op treat them like gods. It’s his responsibility to produce. There are no excuses in life. Up to this point Petey has failed dramatically and I would say he is the number problem with this team. Culture means something. Please just kick me out of the sub because I’m so fed up with people giving the Canucks a pass on anything and everything. It’s pathetic.
The dude has done fucking nothing for 4 seasons straight, and now you’re gonna rude his meat cause he’s finally only just underperforming? Plan the parade🥴
Yea because you only got a guy who had 100 point career high and a 60 point C they acquired from MIN........ Clearly the C area is the issue. Not a 30 year old 3rd liner getting top line mins or the guy whos been a problem everywhere hes gone and hasnt been the same since he got his wrist but by a skate or maybe the 30 yr old with a career high of 50 points......
You didn’t answer the question. The 100 pt guy then is not the same guy now regardless of who the wingers are. We could have Kucherov and EP will still be shooting less than he did prior. Whether it’s injury, age, personal issues, whatever it is. That 100 pt guy is no longer here and is unlikely to get there again. Live with it. We need to move on and do a rebuild.
I did. I'll spell it out to you. In order for Petterssen to shoot more, he needs skilled players to get him the puck. Yes if Kucherov miraculously came to the Canucks that would 100% get him to shoot more.
Petterssen doesnt shoot because he has to make the plays. He has to create space for the other players because they arent talented. They cant make space and pass to Petterssen in a scoring area. If Petterssen is going to shoot he has to take the puck and get into a scoring area on his own.
Because of the lack of talent, he is more of less a setup guy. He creates space for the Garbage 3rd liners and gets the puck to them in scoring areas and majority of the time they cant score cuz they suck. Its a one way relationship.
It’s the other at around. Centremen are the setup guys. Wingers are usually the goal scorers. The big difference is NOT who he is playing with. He has gotten slower and taking a LOT fewer shots per game for whatever reason. Confidence, injury, whatever? He is not the same player. He was a shoot first guy who would always attempt to drive towards the net. The last two years. It’s the opposite. he would look to pass first. If his wonders suck, then why not attempt more shots yourself?? He’s not the same man. Something changed. Simple answer.
Not sure what the point is. He's ranked in the 40s but with a top ten contract.
Of course that will decrease as new contracts get extended, but I think a stat that showed Petey in the top 20 would be better. I'm sure someone could dig one up.
If we are going to play the game of cherry pick stats to justify pettey arguments, this one's pretty simple... He's got the 44th ranked WAR, he should have the 44th highest contract in the NHL... Ohh wait he doesn't its a terrible fucking deal that's an anchor and no one else is going to take.
he can't skate anymore, he's still got the shot the hockey IQ the defensive metrics(I'd say he's gotten better at those), but he's not a good faceoff guy, I'd argue his PK stint wasn't great, his expected goals against on the pk was worst on the team... but the major thing is the guy doesn't move well around the ice at all, he's an average skater at best nowadays. I would take Marner or kaprizov over him just because they are way more dynamic.
He did. Horvat and Miller would look pretty good there right now b it everytime someone tells Petey to actually try, he cries, tattles on them and gets them traded away
Even Quinn took his side and tried to support him on the Petey/Miller spat and a year later Hughes doesn’t even want him at his farewell dinner. Realized he took the wrong side of that fight and that the team was better with Miller than Petey
Imagine if he had a pulse. His low energy in interviews is a sign. Sorry, yet another Swede (yes, like the Sedins, Naslund, Sundstrom) we get here with zero Zetterberg or Forsberg in them.
damn bro no need to get so pressed😭😭 bedard is NOT underpreforming in any way shape or form. neither is kaprisov. or even marner. i really dont know where your getting your info from, but i think you should face facts rather than your mind.
petey is right up there with some great company in other stats too. people just get so wrapped up in "oh god he's so bad because he's like 3 points below point per game pace" which is idiotic. stats like this matter. blocked shots anyone? centres do more than just score goals and put up points. shooting %? Faceoffs? takeaways?
You bring this up like it's a relevant stat, it isn't, he's only the 8th highest paid player because other players haven't re-signed yet. He's making Necas money, he's clearly better than Necas.
So at what point are we allowed to bring this up? If he’s the 15th highest payed player but 44th by X stat is that any better? Nobody is saying he’s a horrible player, but to be anything other than disappointed that we have his contract is insane. I’ll tell you one thing for free, it’s easily in the top 3 worst contracts in the league. Atleast he’s topping one list 🤣
So at what point are we allowed to bring this up? If he’s the 15th highest payed player but 44th by X stat is that any better?
You can't bring it up, you have to compare his contract to recently signed contracts. Look at Necas, Connor and Kempe. Then consider Petey is a center so he gets extra for that. Don't compare him to contracts signed earlier because if we were to replace him (even if it was possible) the player we replace him with would be signing a contract today, not 3 years ago.
I’ll tell you one thing for free, it’s easily in the top 3 worst contracts in the league
That's flat out absurd, you either have an irrational hatred for Petey or simply don't know how many bad contracts there are in the league. Are you going to tell me he's worse than Nurse, Hubradeau and Ceci?
Necas had as more points in just his canes time last year, so away from mackinnon, as Petey did all season, hes not clearly better than Necas, who we kidding here
In the past sure, don't think thats the case recently.
Imagine if Petey could drive a line. For 11.6m I expect more other than this regurgitated he needs wingers to prop him up. Every C needs wingers but more importantly wingers need a C more to facilitate making a line gel.
ok wait if kaprizov, marner, bedard are 40s, who’s in the 1-40 range..
Funny because sherwood and quinn are likely higher, in the model i was looking at at least
Does that mean sherwood is better than Bedard?
WAR is extremely flawed in the hockey context, its really only baseball that its useful at. Its also subjective based on how that model weighs certain things.
Most of these models are flawed for individual output for NHLers. Mainly because they dont take into account team variables on a whole which are difficult to track in general cuz it involves another 25 inputs.
Stats for individuals are great for plays that are individually based like in football and baseball. teams sports too many variables to track
Yup, thats why WAR works perfectly for baseball and really only baseball. It's the only sport that's inherently 1v1, as in, batter vs pitcher. There's some different situations (like someone on 1st or 2nd, bases loaded, etc.) but at the end of the day, it's still batter vs pitcher
It’s absolutely agonizing at how poorly NHL self-proclaimed analytics people actually understand the assumptions of the statistical models they use.
Independence of cases assumption is regression 101 but just gets entirely overlooked by WAR models.
I cant imagine Quinn is on a list of forwards
Doubt it for Sherwood. His defensive numbers are atrocious (probably why they are struggling to trade him)
WAR is a great stat to tell you how much a player has impacted a game. But hockey is game that is impacted by luck way more than baseball, so WAR is far from a perfect tool in this sport. That said, it's impressive Petey's WAR is this high considering his actual scoring has been soo low.
I looked up that model on that site, Petey is 63rd and Sherwood is 31st lol
Guys if only sherwood had some 1st line talent to play with eh?
"I am so sick of people talking about Sherwood's contract" /s
Currently by points, Bo Horvat is #30 among Centres. Petey is #54.
Petey is currently a low end 2nd line Centre.
He is two points away from falling out of the 2nd line Centres and grading out as a high end 3C.
Your method is even worse than WAR.
I'm sure. Points don't matter in the NHL.
Not that it was ever a choice between the two, but we would be so much better off with Bo right now, and for the playoffs run two years ago
43rd in terms of ppg. Obviously not great. But not bad considering his slow start to the year.
I'm shocked he's ranked so high.
I don’t care about his contract.
He would have got that contract from anyone simply because Nylander was signed months before him and reset the market.
And Pettersson had outscored Nylander and was a center, and was younger. Nylander’s contract was the floor.
90% of people said it was a great deal a the time.
https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comments/1b4qgh0/seravalli_canucks_sign_superstar_elias_pettersson/
The world is full of idiots, behind the scenes they knew about the lack of effort in practice and the offseasons, the truth is we shoulda kept Horvat and Miller, traded him and gotten a bigger return than we did for quinn
I mean, realistically how much more could they have gotten for Hughes?
No no I'm saying a potential 100 point player in his 20's (pettey) would have fetched a bigger return than we got In the Quinn deal... Necas Pesce a prospect and a first were kinda the rumors... That would have aged nicely at that point
It was necas, kotkienemi, chatfield and a 1st.
It’s well known Miller didn’t get along with Horvat so one of them had to go… it was the same situation as miller and pettersson. They were never keeping Horvat and miller.
Projected Cap growth and the fact that it expires when Petey is 33 makes this contract somewhat tolerable. Unless we are picking up garbage contracts for picks, there's no reason we should be a cap team in the upcoming seasons so the opportunity cost is pretty low.
Yes Peteys contract will be fine by the time it’s over. Let’s be real he’s far and away our best player right now.
Take it with a grain of salt. Players outside the top 68 forwards include Mikko Rantanen and Filip Forsberg.
Outside the top 100 forwards include Clayton Keller, William Nylander, Brady Tkachuk, Nico Hischier, Roope Hintz. Mathew Knies is number 184. Kempe and Tavares outside the top 200. Kadri and Tuch around 240. Sam Bennett 261. Brayden Point 283. Evgeni Malkin 29pt in 26gp sitting at 365. Ovi at 387. Konecny at 391. Boeser 432. Mason McTavish sitting in the bottom 10 for all forwards this season.
Evander Kane is last place at 495 lol
Tyler Bertuzzi and Brock nelson both top 10 among all forwards. Sherwood at 25.
Lol yup. Click bait to promote small brain hockey.
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I always say too many Ikea pieces that don't fit together. Down vote hell for me
You get more engagement when people disagree so any type of list model for most things will be skewed for engagement bait
This model is a bit weird in that it penalizes shooting really heavily, and favors guys who shoot very little hence the Kane being last, and Petey being so high up.
Petey essentially has very low of even strength offense war, decent even strength defensive war, good amount of PP WAR and almost half of it is Shooting WAR (Petey has 1.27 total WAR with 0.59 of it being Shooting WAR, kind of ridiculous how this model weighs it). I don't necessarily agree with how this model chooses to calculate WAR, since getting shots off should always be a positive in my eyes.
Kaprisov for example, has 24 goals, but he shoots a ton, but ends up with a lower shooting WAR than Petey as a result, despite having 2x the goals.
It also rewards guys who get PP1 time so WAR is going to be inflated for guys with that, and then guys who don't get PP1 time are always gonna be at a disadvantage
I don't think this is the right approach at claiming Petey needs better linemates, WAR is very flawed.
Penalizing shooting makes absolutely no sense lol wtf. Getting a high volume of shots is one of the only ways to generally guarantee more goals, any model should mostly reward shooting. Hockey has way too many variables for war to be good unless it was crazy detailed and took into account like was goalie screened on each shot, was it shot less than 1 second after a pass, how far was the pass before the shot etc. Which is basically impossible unless AI can be taught to analyze the game video and do it.
yeah, I'm glad I took a look at the actual data before making judgement on this narrative driven post lol, it absolutely makes no sense lol.
Petey haters are gonna lose their minds when we draft elite wingers for Petey to play with, imagine Stenberg on his line every night would be a joy to watch
Kuzmenko but better
just go get Kuzy back and stick him on peteys wing this year
Kuzmenko on a 1 year deal this summer then trade him to a contender at the deadline, seems like a W for both parties.
Can give him a lot of $ too and retain half, not like it matters for us. Even if you just get a 3rd, that's worth it, essentially just buying a draft pick
Except he sucks now
We don't have to wait that long. He's on a team with pretty strong winger depth and pretty shit center depth for the Olympics. We can literally see what Petey looks like on a better team in a month.
Yeah man just like we did in the four nations tourney! Wait, remind me how that went, my memory only goes back 10 months...
Just wait until he’s back from injury, okay no wait until the playoffs, fuck okay that didn’t work, wait until he’s had a full summer of training and- fuck fuck okay wait until the four nations…okay wait 4 years until we have a star winger and THEN you Petey haters will look stupid!
I don’t hate Petey but he is far from the player we drafted and he has fallen off significantly in just a few short years. His contract will handcuff our team for years to come. This isn’t even a one off year… it’s been years like this now. He’s a 5 million dollar player imo. As a star centre he should be able to do well with anyone and not require a bunch of other major stars to make him look good.
I'm a pettey hater through and through, Stenberg is an ideal linemates he drives play does everything including getting loose pucks that pettey can't skate to cause he sucks at skating. Stenberg isn't jt Miller but alot of the qualities that paired well when pettey and him played together Stenberg has
I hate those who hate EP40 I am a true canucks fan I watch all 82 every year you cannot tell me with a straight face that petey isn't our best forward lol these people make me laugh their takes are horrible
The internet has warped people’s brains in such an interesting way. If you’re right, and it’s all about the wingers he’s playing with, why would I “lose my mind” if he starts being elite again? I’m a fan of the team. I want to win. I don’t hate Petey. I will be happy if you’re right. He just keeps proving over and over he’s not that guy and a bunch of other “elite” players also having disappointing seasons doesn’t make that less true.
Look at the comment right above you, literally says they will blame Petey for being carried if he starts playing better with elite winger lol
Yeah.... people will hate when the canucks draft someone with the skill to carry petey and make him look like he's earning his money.
Rofl... great argument.
I’m waiting for the opposite. All the petey lovers can get their beloved top wingers and watch ep40 still fail to adequately produce
I hate fancy stats.
Just watch the games. Petey is nowhere near these guys level.
Did you watch 4 nations last year.... wait til the Olympics this year, what will be the excuse then? Will Swedens wingers not be good enough.????
And the stat you're showing is Wins Above Replacement.........
...
........ For the 2nd last place team.
This is grasping at the tiniest straw.
I'm with you , hes a second line center that will probably give you 70-80 points for the next 5 years or so but that's not what we paid him to be. 3-4 years ago he looked like he was a game breaking player and could be the best player on the ice at any moment. His skating while never amazing has regressed so much so that he falls 3 times a shift and doesn't have the foot speed to create as much as he used to. He still has the shot and still has his hands but yeah it was an overpay. I was hoping at the time we got him at around 9-9.5 and the management wouldn't budge but they did. He was once just outside of being a top 10 player in the league and now he's lucky to be in the top 50 , it is what it is
Other GMs have these stats available. If they were representative and the rumours of Petey being shopped (for what the third time?) are true there would be a rush to grab him.
I watch the games and the EP40 hate his blown out of proportion by fans who follow score sheets as their stats.
But if you want to keep going back to when he was injured as the benchmark of what kind of player he is. Can I go back 12 months before that when he was on pace for 120pts? Or maybe we should both just take him as he is today. A guy who is showing improvements month by month, as he is getting back to his former elite self, but with an even greater defensive upside and faceoff performer.
Eh, I think the score sheet was more flattering than his actual play last game. There's definitely people on either end of the extremes here though. He's been disappointing, he's not delivering value, he's still a good NHL player. He's also either incredibly inconsistent and/or struggling with injuries that may never resolve which at the end of the day just means the future is pretty mid.
How many seasons of him being disappointing do we have to watch before we stop getting labelled “haters” for expecting elite production for elite money?
8 years apparently
his contract is fine. we dont like nice things
Excuse me? Even if you thought the contract was market value at the time, you cant possibly in billion years think its going well enough to justify it at his current play.
Didnt this guy just lose a kid? Think that might be fucking with him a bit cut the guy some slack
hes close to a pt a game and has to always play F3 and cover defensively. hes fine.
Thats a bold take
Fans who complain we lost 3 great centers in the last few years in Horvat, Miller and Lindholm are the same people want to push away their last top 6 NHL center.
Exactly. Everyone wants to trade our best player and the only guy on the roster who has shown he has the capability to be a superstar. If we didn’t have him we’d be a way bigger joke than we already are. We’d have 4 4th line centers without Petey. After we got Rossi now we have a 2/3 c. And 3 4th line centers.
His contract is excellent for Tank Commander EP40.
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Thanks to whoever reported this. We have no patience for homophobia.
We are in last place. Petey has the same amount of goals as Abbotsford players.
Is now the time to cope?
Stop defending his contract.
It's not fine.
I'm happy that he's finding his game again this year.
Our star players don’t have star players playing on their lines. It’s annoying.
You realize Petey's problem comes from not moving his feet, not really because of offensive partners right?
its just one thing making him less effective? If he moved his feet he would score a end to end goal each shift? or... ? Can anyone else on the team keep up with him and be open to take a pass if he moves his feet and dangles a guy?
He's a playmaking centerman that doesn't drive play... That kills us in the neutral zone especially since JT left no one else does that... Something happened to him and he's lost his stride and nowhere near the player he once was, making that a bad contract. It would be like trying to justify teddy blueger at 7 million
Bro, it's not very complicated. Back when he had more points, he'd move his feet and skate with the puck. Since he stopped his production went down, and he drives less offence.
This right here
45 points last season
If you have to cherry pick weird stats like this then you're only making your case worse.
We're about to see Petey paired with elite wingers in the Olympics. Let's see how much that helps him because it didn't really work out in the 4 Nations.
Yup, he is better than Connor Bedard. According to his WAR.
Canucks better not make that trade if offered.
He’s also older than Bedard, who is still developing. And you’re just cherry-picking a single player, while the post is illustrating that he performs similarly to a group of players.
You’re precisely the type of hater that the tweet is calling out.
They are cherry picking war and by that logic he sits 44th on the league with the 5th highest contract.. .if we play that game he's by far the worst deal on the nhl
He is the 5th highest paid center in the NHL.
He is not a top 15C in the league.
That's why he deserves the criticism. He is not living up to his contract.
But it's a great contract for tanking. So it's fine I guess.
Not living up to that contract also limited FA options this past offseason, and could be a limiting factor in taking on inefficient contracts.
I won't hate on players for getting as much as they can but I am upset that he hasn't gotten back to the form that led to that contract.
I'm more upset on management electing to go with him when they knew all the behind the scenes stuff, lack of commitment on offseasons, poor practice habbits, secluded from teammates, and the big one, they would know whats actually wrong with his knee back legs whatever and to what degree that was going to be for him long term. They shouldn't have hitched their wagon to this guy and they had all the inside knowledge telling them not to
Totally agree.
Not a chance we'd accept Bedard for Petey. Petey has more career points than Bedard!
whoosh
honestly if he wasn't 11.6 and did cause the circus that led us to loosing miller and hughes i don't think peole would be unhappy with him. he's a good player but he wasn't worth a 11.6M. Many said before the signing 9-10m tops. also if benning didn't run out of time and waste our cap we could have signed petterson to a long term deal for much lower aav rather than that deal that brought him into the 11.6.
I don't think anyone meaningful has ever said they love the war stat in hockey
Hockey WAR is so flawed. This was just clickbait and this guy fell for it.
He has had several, he hates all of them. I think the problem might just be that ep40 is an asshole.
I also have to say that this post is exactly why the Canucks are where they are. Grasping at straws that would theoretically work I a perfect world. I feel that people like OP are exactly what’s wrong with the Canucks. If the guy was as good as you say he would make people around him better. The whole shitspiral that is the Canucks revolves around ep40. So if what you’re seeing is what you want out of the Canucks then keep jumping on the ep40 wagon. Your side has been winning for decades, the team keeps abiding by your principles and here we are. I will probably get kicked out of the sub for this, but I am sick of the ridiculously low bar that is set for Canucks Players. Just because they don’t spit at the idea of wearing the jersey people like op treat them like gods. It’s his responsibility to produce. There are no excuses in life. Up to this point Petey has failed dramatically and I would say he is the number problem with this team. Culture means something. Please just kick me out of the sub because I’m so fed up with people giving the Canucks a pass on anything and everything. It’s pathetic.
Just average joe
If he’s so good he should bring ppl up around him, Miller made Boeser look like a great player
The brain 🧠
Careful with critical comments. Might get banned
The dude has done fucking nothing for 4 seasons straight, and now you’re gonna rude his meat cause he’s finally only just underperforming? Plan the parade🥴
Thats what Ive been saying. The Canucks Wingers are trash, 3rd liners outside of Boeser
Maybe if they had an actual centremen to play with?
Yea because you only got a guy who had 100 point career high and a 60 point C they acquired from MIN........ Clearly the C area is the issue. Not a 30 year old 3rd liner getting top line mins or the guy whos been a problem everywhere hes gone and hasnt been the same since he got his wrist but by a skate or maybe the 30 yr old with a career high of 50 points......
That 100 pt guy you talk of had more than 3 shots per game that season. Where is that same guy now?
Back in 2022-23 when VAN had actual wingers like Miller and Kuzmenko(70 point version)
Petterssen and Horvat were your two Cs
You didn’t answer the question. The 100 pt guy then is not the same guy now regardless of who the wingers are. We could have Kucherov and EP will still be shooting less than he did prior. Whether it’s injury, age, personal issues, whatever it is. That 100 pt guy is no longer here and is unlikely to get there again. Live with it. We need to move on and do a rebuild.
I did. I'll spell it out to you. In order for Petterssen to shoot more, he needs skilled players to get him the puck. Yes if Kucherov miraculously came to the Canucks that would 100% get him to shoot more.
Petterssen doesnt shoot because he has to make the plays. He has to create space for the other players because they arent talented. They cant make space and pass to Petterssen in a scoring area. If Petterssen is going to shoot he has to take the puck and get into a scoring area on his own.
Because of the lack of talent, he is more of less a setup guy. He creates space for the Garbage 3rd liners and gets the puck to them in scoring areas and majority of the time they cant score cuz they suck. Its a one way relationship.
It’s the other at around. Centremen are the setup guys. Wingers are usually the goal scorers. The big difference is NOT who he is playing with. He has gotten slower and taking a LOT fewer shots per game for whatever reason. Confidence, injury, whatever? He is not the same player. He was a shoot first guy who would always attempt to drive towards the net. The last two years. It’s the opposite. he would look to pass first. If his wonders suck, then why not attempt more shots yourself?? He’s not the same man. Something changed. Simple answer.
Petterssen had 39 goals they year he had 102 points........ But yea C arent goal scorers......
Because he SHOT more
Not sure what the point is. He's ranked in the 40s but with a top ten contract.
Of course that will decrease as new contracts get extended, but I think a stat that showed Petey in the top 20 would be better. I'm sure someone could dig one up.
I love how the image leaves the hair on Petey but just makes it skin coloured
If we are going to play the game of cherry pick stats to justify pettey arguments, this one's pretty simple... He's got the 44th ranked WAR, he should have the 44th highest contract in the NHL... Ohh wait he doesn't its a terrible fucking deal that's an anchor and no one else is going to take. he can't skate anymore, he's still got the shot the hockey IQ the defensive metrics(I'd say he's gotten better at those), but he's not a good faceoff guy, I'd argue his PK stint wasn't great, his expected goals against on the pk was worst on the team... but the major thing is the guy doesn't move well around the ice at all, he's an average skater at best nowadays. I would take Marner or kaprizov over him just because they are way more dynamic.
um.
ep40 had to play with wingers like mikheyev, hoglander, beauvilier, and lafferty iirc and that didn’t affect his production.
the excuses for ep40’s under performance keep piling up .. his contract is turning into an utter fiasco
He can barely skate tho
trade him for some pucks, then use the remaining $ for a practice facility
If only this were possible!
what a great name!
He did. Horvat and Miller would look pretty good there right now b it everytime someone tells Petey to actually try, he cries, tattles on them and gets them traded away
Even Quinn took his side and tried to support him on the Petey/Miller spat and a year later Hughes doesn’t even want him at his farewell dinner. Realized he took the wrong side of that fight and that the team was better with Miller than Petey
Clearly Kaprizov is a third liner, Wild will never do well with a third liner making 17M
They write Elias Petterson instead of just the last name, but without his cartoon image there it could have been the other guy
I just want Petey to have a fresh start somewhere and look like he enjoys hockey again.
Imagine if Bedard had wingers lol
Imagine if he had a pulse. His low energy in interviews is a sign. Sorry, yet another Swede (yes, like the Sedins, Naslund, Sundstrom) we get here with zero Zetterberg or Forsberg in them.
WAR is not a very useful analytic for hockey imo
Cope, the Pettersson contract is complete garbage
Wins above replacement is an individual advanced stat. The "iF oNlY hIs LiNeMaTeS wErE bEtTeR" doesn't hold water.
He drove a line with Mikheyev and Kuzmenko, and would be worth $11.6 if he could still do that, but he can't and it's insulting to pretend he is.
He's the 8th highest player and 44th by WAR. What are you doing? Comparing him to other underperformers? Don't lower the bar ffs.
Be better.
damn bro no need to get so pressed😭😭 bedard is NOT underpreforming in any way shape or form. neither is kaprisov. or even marner. i really dont know where your getting your info from, but i think you should face facts rather than your mind.
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okay? idk what that has to do with anything.
petey is right up there with some great company in other stats too. people just get so wrapped up in "oh god he's so bad because he's like 3 points below point per game pace" which is idiotic. stats like this matter. blocked shots anyone? centres do more than just score goals and put up points. shooting %? Faceoffs? takeaways?
You bring this up like it's a relevant stat, it isn't, he's only the 8th highest paid player because other players haven't re-signed yet. He's making Necas money, he's clearly better than Necas.
So at what point are we allowed to bring this up? If he’s the 15th highest payed player but 44th by X stat is that any better? Nobody is saying he’s a horrible player, but to be anything other than disappointed that we have his contract is insane. I’ll tell you one thing for free, it’s easily in the top 3 worst contracts in the league. Atleast he’s topping one list 🤣
You can't bring it up, you have to compare his contract to recently signed contracts. Look at Necas, Connor and Kempe. Then consider Petey is a center so he gets extra for that. Don't compare him to contracts signed earlier because if we were to replace him (even if it was possible) the player we replace him with would be signing a contract today, not 3 years ago.
That's flat out absurd, you either have an irrational hatred for Petey or simply don't know how many bad contracts there are in the league. Are you going to tell me he's worse than Nurse, Hubradeau and Ceci?
Necas had as more points in just his canes time last year, so away from mackinnon, as Petey did all season, hes not clearly better than Necas, who we kidding here
In the past sure, don't think thats the case recently.
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Still a top 3 in the SLC stat though
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SOFT
LIKE
CHARMIN
Imagine if Petey could drive a line. For 11.6m I expect more other than this regurgitated he needs wingers to prop him up. Every C needs wingers but more importantly wingers need a C more to facilitate making a line gel.
Dude has completely turned it around this season and I’m here for it.
People mad about 11.6 like they paid it out of their own pockets
When people pay to watch games, they pay out of their own pockets.
When people pay high food and drink and parking prices at those games, they pay out of their own pockets.
When people pay high prices for merch, they pay out of their own pockets.
When people choose to pay sportsnet ridiculous prices to watch at home, they pay out of their own pockets.
When people watch this team over and over, season after season and it keeps on being blah, they are paying with their time.
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Im not the one making threads using a very flawed WAR stat lol, its prob worse than plus minus.
Let's go Petey!
He will play very well with Sweden watch
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Thanks for reporting this comment. We don't want anyone to try to divide the fanbase and we're dealing with this situation.
Kaprizov is having a bad year and is only making $9m.
This is true in the most literal sense of the word but we all know how much he extended for.